Even if they did, that’s also a unit of distance, not time. Maybe they are talking about it being a long distance to get back to where the fight was. That could have been a Kessel Run reference, which might have made it a bit more fun.
Yea, I like that better. The retcon was dumb. It was always a unit of distance and what he said was basically the same as someone telling a story of a time that caught a big fish. It gets bigger with each telling.
I kinda miss that feature. So much of DS3, and Elden Ring for that matter, are trivialized by all those easy iframes.
Like, playing a run of DS3 where you fully clear the area before advancing is a very different experience. It's a good intro to challenge running, IMO.
That does seem to be the direction the games have been going, and I think it must be an audience patience thing.
Demon Souls is a good example of the level being the main challenge, with the boss at the end as more of a bonus (Flamelurker being an exception). Later games, even Elden Ring, are way more boss focused.
I guess I like both, although now that you mention it, we've had a lot of dance move bosses lately, and it would be cool to see a new game go back to the genre's roots.
I think it's also a consequence of the faster gameplay. We now have faster characters with more rolls available, as well as wider open areas where you can easily stay out of reach of enemies. The proportion of people just running back to the boss instead of fighting their way through probably reached a point where From thought "Why bother?"
My buddy has been theorycrafting a game for a while and the topic of respawn and loss came up. My thoughts are that the more you lose the easier it should be to get back.
Valheim has you drop your entire inventory, and try to run back (or sail) completely naked (or keep a 2nd set of gear), then go into the situation that killed you when you arguably were the most prepared to try to get it back. I hate it.
Running back through 12 samurai to do the fight again, to die again, but the only loss is travel time is completely fair.
A loss of "time" really hurts when you only have a little time to play though. I've bounced off of Elden ring and dark souls a couple of times when I get to fights that don't respect my time. If I'm spending half the time just getting to the boss, then that feels like wasted time.
This is a valid opinion, but I think youre in the minority and people would rather a hard boss that takes them multiple tries than a hard level and easy bosses like demons souls. And especially having to slog through a level you consider easy just to die by a boss is not a good feeling for many people. Its a feeling of, youve already explored and overcome that part multiple times, you just want to practice and overcome the next thing more than redoing it.
But obviously people like both ways or ds2 and hollow knight wouldnt also be popular
Everything the ER did feels like it's taking away from the feeling the Souls games gave. The open world, with Torrent, makes it so you just run past everything. You can immediately teleport anywhere you want to be. If you ever die, there's no worry because you'll spawn right there and easily be able to reset.
I liked ER, but I still think DS1 is the best game they've made for how it feels to exist in the world. Mechanically they've all been a step forward, but each one has been a step back (excluding Sekiro) in feeling like you exist in the world, and you're on an adventure through it.
Overall I'd say that SoFS and vanilla DS2 are a push in terms of quality, but the proliferation of knights in Iron Keep is one place where SoFS fucked up.
I recently started a fresh NG+2 game, via a save editor, this wasn't the place that gave me the most pushback (probably because i was already at lvl 100 something, because of all the extra spuls), it was heides tower of flame, since then everything went pretty smooth when you do your best to play smart.
Funnily enough, while the areas are harder, invasions are easier since i over level, probably shouldn't play online though but i just didn't feel like messing with it.
It is an enjoyable way to play the game though, if you've patience for a challenge run.
The swamp at least has a shortcut, even if you have to backtrack a bit to get to it. 5-1 on the other hand. Poison damage, deadly falls, confusing layout...
4-2 was a beast as well. Nearly every enemy in there can just about one shot you if you're not careful.
At least the bosses are mostly simple enough. Except Maneaters. Fuck Maneaters.
I know I can just join that one covenant to pause this or do the NG+ ash thing, but the fact that most enemies in Ds2 despawn after killing them enough times makes me want to play in a lame way. It makes the souls feel like a finite resource which makes me hate the idea of dying and potentially losing any permanently. So I play way too conservatively, and repeatedly fight all the enemies in an area to make them despawn while playing safe enough to not lose any souls. I have entire areas that are just empty now.
Either that or if I want to explore or get to another area, I just run past everything.
DS3 looks at you with puppy eyes then throws Abyss Watchers at you. Legit the boss fight I struggled with the most I think out of all the games. And that was on a second playthru after I’ve beaten them before, they took me many hours to beat again somehow?!?
The dlc smelter runback is actually doable. The main game one though; 2 before the door, wait for the next to drop down and lure outside, get the archer in the window, ballista in the back, go out the door briefly and wait 15 seconds for one or two to come through the door, 2 on the bridge, 2 that drop down opposite the archer, then home free!
53 Comments
Opisek@piefed.blahaj.zone · 59 pts · 10d
Light years are a unit of distance
ceenote@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 10d
Fine. It takes 8 parsecs to complete.
SirHery@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 10d
Well uhh, so another measurement of distance?
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.social · 5 pts · 10d
I think they meant parsecs.
EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 10d
Even if they did, that’s also a unit of distance, not time. Maybe they are talking about it being a long distance to get back to where the fight was. That could have been a Kessel Run reference, which might have made it a bit more fun.
caseyweederman@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 10d
It was retconned to be a measure of distance. A clever retcon, but a retcon nonetheless.
FluidBeef@quokk.au · 7 pts · 10d
Not as clever as the original intent being that Han Solo is a rogue and fraud.
EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 10d
Yea, I like that better. The retcon was dumb. It was always a unit of distance and what he said was basically the same as someone telling a story of a time that caught a big fish. It gets bigger with each telling.
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 10d
NPC on the way to Brock: “
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 10d
If I substitute in miles in my head I feel like it still works.
victorz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d
Light miles?
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d
I'm suggesting that the statement sounds semantically valid, albeit a little odd, if you frame it in terms of distance instead of speed.
victorz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d
I'm just riffing.
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d
Cool.
justdaveisfine@piefed.social · 26 pts · 10d
I know it was unpopular, but I actually liked DS2's "enemies eventually stop respawning if you kill them enough" mechanic for this reason.
Some areas or boss runbacks were a little annoying and being able to clear out specific nuisances or exploding mummies permanently* was great.
Smelter demon is a great example as that area was annoying until you get rid of a few enemies that I think were just there to harass you.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 10d
It also works as a soft control for balance, since those disappearing enemies can't be farmed to over-level.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.social · 4 pts · 10d
How are supposed to beat it if you can't over-level?
Furbag@pawb.social · 6 pts · 10d
Bonfire Ascetic to reset the zone.
sundray@lemmus.org · 6 pts · 10d
Covenant of Champions.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 10d
From what I've heard, you sit behind the shield, and investigate the world's lore to find the boss's weakness. But I've never played it
fdnomad@programming.dev · 5 pts · 10d
At least for Smelter Demon it wouldn't be necessary if we got iframes on fogwalls
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 10d
I kinda miss that feature. So much of DS3, and Elden Ring for that matter, are trivialized by all those easy iframes.
Like, playing a run of DS3 where you fully clear the area before advancing is a very different experience. It's a good intro to challenge running, IMO.
fdnomad@programming.dev · 3 pts · 10d
Well good thing Elden Ring nerfed that by having the messages obscure half of your screen and sometimes block your inputs entirely
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 10d
I’ve almost died so many times to “Stonesword key was lost with use.”
LET ME ROLL AAAAA
justdaveisfine@piefed.social · 4 pts · 10d
The placement of that captain right in front of the fog door has got to be someone at From who just likes to troll the player.
Probably the same person who put those three crossbow guys within arm's reach of that one bonfire on the tower.
Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10d
I want to like DS2 so much, but it is the only Dark Souls game to make me motion sick.
justdaveisfine@piefed.social · 2 pts · 10d
Is that SoFS edition on PC with the 60 fps?
I believe it was pretty rough at launch.
Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10d
It was the ps4 version I believe.
Gladaed@feddit.org · 11 pts · 10d
Just getting to respawn in front of the boss is so much less fun.
I want to journey through a game, not beat an elaborate and overcomplicated dance move set.
Just make the boss easier if the total length to beat takes too long.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 10d
That does seem to be the direction the games have been going, and I think it must be an audience patience thing.
Demon Souls is a good example of the level being the main challenge, with the boss at the end as more of a bonus (Flamelurker being an exception). Later games, even Elden Ring, are way more boss focused.
I guess I like both, although now that you mention it, we've had a lot of dance move bosses lately, and it would be cool to see a new game go back to the genre's roots.
ceenote@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 10d
I think it's also a consequence of the faster gameplay. We now have faster characters with more rolls available, as well as wider open areas where you can easily stay out of reach of enemies. The proportion of people just running back to the boss instead of fighting their way through probably reached a point where From thought "Why bother?"
Th3D3k0y@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 10d
My buddy has been theorycrafting a game for a while and the topic of respawn and loss came up. My thoughts are that the more you lose the easier it should be to get back.
Valheim has you drop your entire inventory, and try to run back (or sail) completely naked (or keep a 2nd set of gear), then go into the situation that killed you when you arguably were the most prepared to try to get it back. I hate it.
Running back through 12 samurai to do the fight again, to die again, but the only loss is travel time is completely fair.
jacksilver@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 10d
A loss of "time" really hurts when you only have a little time to play though. I've bounced off of Elden ring and dark souls a couple of times when I get to fights that don't respect my time. If I'm spending half the time just getting to the boss, then that feels like wasted time.
LNRDrone@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 10d
Yeah Valheim body runs can be insane if you didn't get portal down or it was destroyed in whatever killed you (goddamn Ashlands!)
At least the settings allow reducing it to just loose inventory dropped on death (all equipped gear is kept).
I could see it being fun if you're playing with a friend or two though.
justdaveisfine@piefed.social · 2 pts · 10d
85% of the time its trying to recover your friend's stuff and wondering why they have so much trash in their inventory but also 22 loaves of bread.
But also maybe my friends are just hoarders.
Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 10d
This is a valid opinion, but I think youre in the minority and people would rather a hard boss that takes them multiple tries than a hard level and easy bosses like demons souls. And especially having to slog through a level you consider easy just to die by a boss is not a good feeling for many people. Its a feeling of, youve already explored and overcome that part multiple times, you just want to practice and overcome the next thing more than redoing it.
But obviously people like both ways or ds2 and hollow knight wouldnt also be popular
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 10d
Everything the ER did feels like it's taking away from the feeling the Souls games gave. The open world, with Torrent, makes it so you just run past everything. You can immediately teleport anywhere you want to be. If you ever die, there's no worry because you'll spawn right there and easily be able to reset.
I liked ER, but I still think DS1 is the best game they've made for how it feels to exist in the world. Mechanically they've all been a step forward, but each one has been a step back (excluding Sekiro) in feeling like you exist in the world, and you're on an adventure through it.
ZeroHora@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 10d
I always approach this like an efficiency puzzle.
How can I get there faster, taking the less amount of risk and not losing all the ammo luring the mobs.
That's why I fucking loved Otzdarva no hit run challenge streams, the entire thing was him doing this "puzzle" thing
froufox@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 10d
You mean Dark Souls 2, right? No need to slander the best part in the series
LostCarcosan@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 10d
Yes, the joke is that DS3 is extremely attractive and looking at you that way to make you play it instead of playing DS2
sundray@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 10d
Overall I'd say that SoFS and vanilla DS2 are a push in terms of quality, but the proliferation of knights in Iron Keep is one place where SoFS fucked up.
FluidBeef@quokk.au · 3 pts · 10d
This has to be bait because that’s Dark Souls II.
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 10d
That's the joke... i guess? The gal is stupidly attractive. That's DS3 looking at you, asking for you to drop DS2
BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 10d
I recently started a fresh NG+2 game, via a save editor, this wasn't the place that gave me the most pushback (probably because i was already at lvl 100 something, because of all the extra spuls), it was heides tower of flame, since then everything went pretty smooth when you do your best to play smart.
Funnily enough, while the areas are harder, invasions are easier since i over level, probably shouldn't play online though but i just didn't feel like messing with it.
It is an enjoyable way to play the game though, if you've patience for a challenge run.
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 10d
And that's honestly still not as bad as Sir Alonne or those tigers after the big foggy fields of go fuck yourself.
Still, at least it's not Demon's Souls. Some of those run backs are just sadistic.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 9d
That swamp...
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 9d
The swamp at least has a shortcut, even if you have to backtrack a bit to get to it. 5-1 on the other hand. Poison damage, deadly falls, confusing layout...
4-2 was a beast as well. Nearly every enemy in there can just about one shot you if you're not careful.
At least the bosses are mostly simple enough. Except Maneaters. Fuck Maneaters.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 10d
I know I can just join that one covenant to pause this or do the NG+ ash thing, but the fact that most enemies in Ds2 despawn after killing them enough times makes me want to play in a lame way. It makes the souls feel like a finite resource which makes me hate the idea of dying and potentially losing any permanently. So I play way too conservatively, and repeatedly fight all the enemies in an area to make them despawn while playing safe enough to not lose any souls. I have entire areas that are just empty now.
Either that or if I want to explore or get to another area, I just run past everything.
Avicenna@programming.dev · 2 pts · 10d
Maybe they play it while flying through space and at their speed it is the same time as it takes to travel 8 light years?
ThunderComplex@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 19h
DS3 looks at you with puppy eyes then throws Abyss Watchers at you. Legit the boss fight I struggled with the most I think out of all the games. And that was on a second playthru after I’ve beaten them before, they took me many hours to beat again somehow?!?
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 10d
The dlc smelter runback is actually doable. The main game one though; 2 before the door, wait for the next to drop down and lure outside, get the archer in the window, ballista in the back, go out the door briefly and wait 15 seconds for one or two to come through the door, 2 on the bridge, 2 that drop down opposite the archer, then home free!
See, simple as!
/s
Zozano@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 10d
19th try and still fighting mobs?
Tell me you've joined the Covenant of Champions without telling me you've joined the Covenant of Champions.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 10d
I'm literally stuck on this exact spot rn 😩