The most easily recognizable by people would be Google and Meta. Those two top the charts for non-consensual surveillance. I think those to need to be reigned in big time, along with some of the other big tech companies. All are anti-consumer. I guess at least those try to have some level of transparency, but they still have awful business practices.
I've seen Palantir employees in Charlottenburg while visiting Berlin in 2023 ;) They are not as invisible as you would think. They'll wear clothing from Patagonia with the branding
Axon, Genetec, Vigilant (Motorola), Rekor, Leonardo... A lot of them and the tech is pretty easy so a hundred other smaller companies. It needs to be banned at the national level by law for any actual change, but good luck convincing the government not to build out the Panopticon they seem to want so badly.
I have some hope that counties and states will end up making different contracts with different companies at different times, and that interoperability will be a very late afterthought just like it is in the rest of the proprietary software world, leaving various jurisdictions with many uncoordinated and incompatible databases and applications. Every proprietary software maker does the same thing, they don't make their data system open or accessible unless some outside pressure forces it.
Also some states and counties are putting bans or other regulatory restrictions in place, which will help add to the general confusion and compatibility issues.
For those of you working in tech fields that may be related, now is the time to take all of the lessons you've learned about how bad, selfish proprietary software is made, all the annoyances and roadblocks you've run into over the years trying to make disparate bits of technology work together, and start implementing those as features. If someone questions it, tell them it's necessary to protect company intellectual property. Make it clunky.
The funny thing with Flock is, people have their pants in a knot over the egregious surveillance they conduct - and rightfully so. Yet they've been letting themselves be put under constant surveillance for over two decades now, and there are plenty of other Flocks out there doing just as egregious shit today that nobody has heard about.
Flock is a lightning rod. But I fear when they they finally go belly up, their competitors will learn the lesson and keep even more quiet - and people will forget, as they always do.
I think what makes Flock (and Axon, Motorola, etc.) particularly repulsive is the inability to opt out. I can leave my phone at home. I can choose not to bring Smart Devices into my home to spy on me. If there's a Flock camera at the exit of your neighborhood, your comings and goings are being monitored 24/7. (Before anyone mentions it, I can completely disable and deenergize the "SOS" feature in my car.)
You should still apply, though. Because people hate them, they likely need to offer higher salaries to compensate, just like Meta does. You can use these high offers to negotiate a better salary at a more palatable company. Also, it wastes the time of a scumbag company, so win-win.
Do we really want to put other, ethical companies under strain just because anti-ethical companies have lots of dirty cash pumped into them to pay higher?
Yeah, and having another offer both helps you get an offer (because you look more attractive), and helps you negotiate for the level of salary you need to rather work for them.
I've taken a pay cut when switching jobs before. I still used my old salary to make them give me the best offer they could muster. You may be surprised to learn that it didn't bankrupt them.
just apply but have an AI write everything as if you are a suberp candidate, just to increase their workload. In the least they will have to google you to see you don't exist.
I could imagine plenty of normal people going to work for a company that purportedly wants to use technology to improve the security of communities. A naive person may not think, "wait, isn't this turning my country into a dystopian surveillance state?" Nobody that works for ICE got there naively. They were selected from the worst America has to offer.
The only things that change people's minds are peer pressure and trauma. Facts won't do it. You can show someone all the facts in the world proving that their job sucks, but they won't care. But if all their friends and family start calling their a boot licking shit head and won't hang out with them? They'll feel that.
"We want the [flock safety] to be traumatically affected...When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. We want their funding to be shut down so that the [the surveillance state] can't do all of the [Fourth Amendment Violations] against our [population] because they have no bandwidth financially to do so.
I dunno people on here seem to find plenty of ways to shit on people in the military. Would rather be in the service than actively gutting the countries rights and budget from the inside for a profit, but what do I know I'm not part of either. I just spin my wrenches and mind mine.
My company counts Flock among our customers. Well, not really: they only bought one thing from us some years ago. But what they bought failed a few months ago, and I've had to deal with one of their employees for technical support: the guy was probably among the most arrogant customer employees I've had to deal with professionally.
Considering who he works for, I had to make a real effort to stay courteous and professional with him, let me tell you...
I dont mean to call you out, but are you proud of your "annoyed but politely compliant" response to actively being part of a supply chain for surveillance tech? Based solely on this post, your distaste comes off somewhat disingenuous if it doesn't affect your actions in any meaningful way
It's called being professional. What do you expect me to do on the job? Take the initiative and insult a customer because I don't like them? That's a surefire way to get the sack.
If being a professional means providing no resistance while building the machinery of fascism, are you proud of that? Standing by your principles is not free, I get that. Pretending you care about said principles while actively spending your productive time working against those principles is not the kind of thing I'd be bragging about in an online leftist community though. Real "just following orders" energy
You assume there are no other ways to fight fascism than to jeopardize one's ability to pay the bills.
As it happens, I'm quite senior at my company, and I think I've pretty much convinced sales to drop this customer, should they ever order anything else, on the grounds that they're quite toxic and we really don't want to be associated with them.
So there ya go: I still have my job and they most likely lost a supplier.
If being a professional means providing no resistance while building the machinery of fascism, are you proud of that?
Brother, you don't even know the nature of the deal his employer has with Flock. For all you know Flock just bought some gravel from him for a driveway, calm down. People got bills to pay, and you can't fight fascism on an empty stomach.
online leftist community
Lemmy World isn't really a "leftist" community. It's left-leaning, if you're being generous.
This just plays into C-suite hands because now, they don't have the payroll and benefit expenses. The better play is to be incompetent, while collecting a check.
Er, you worked for the new SCO? That IP clearinghouse didn’t need Groklaw to make people hate them.
The problem was SCO’s own legal team and C Suite.
I have nothing but respect for the original SCO, but I have a hard time seeing the one that sued IBM as much more than a side business to being an IP holding company that turned out to be holding less IP than they thought.
It just depends I guess. It's like WW2, do you put every soldier on trial for genocide? It would take a decade plus, and you can't just lump them together and say "you're all guilty" of the same thing, 5 years. You'd have to have due process for every single person with evidence.
Stalin proposed executing 50,000–100,000 German officers so that Germany could not plan another war. Roosevelt joked that "maybe 49,000 would be enough". Churchill, however, was outraged and denounced "the cold-blooded execution of soldiers who fought for their country".
:-|
You’d have to have due process for every single person with evidence.
We prosecuted US mafias and cartels en mass fairly recently. The Mafia Commission Trial prosecuted eleven leading organized crime figures at once. The Atlanta Public Schools cheating scandal trial involved 35 defendants, simultaneously. The Chicago Seven trial originally involved eight defendants at once (reduced to seven when Bobby Seale's case was declared a mistrial after the judge effectively tortured him in front of the jury).
That said, conspiracy trials only need to link the defendants within a chain of action. They don't need individual trials for each defendant. "We can prove all these people were in the same organization together planning to do a crime" is sufficient to prosecute them as a unit.
Honestly yah they should, big dif today is that we have detailed files on these people though employment and company records, another dif is that this company was evil from the start unlike the German army that got hyjacked, back then I would have said every officer and every senior NCO is getting trialed. These days we have more info so it's even easier to determine guilt.
can someone explain to me why people against flock soo much? isnt that just to track like traffic violation? isnt that good? so people not drive recklessly
The problem is there's already been a bunch of cases of misuse; officers looking up their ex's info and location.
Plus, it's been discovered that they also track the location and daily routine of anyone living nearby. So you really want such an insecure system knowing exactly where you are?
I get ur concern about bad cop abusing authorit, cops who stalk people using state databases should be fired and prosecuted, but there a major difference between boycotting a technology entirely and putting better safety measure on it. People dont ban police databases, dispatch systems, or traffic cameras just because a bad cop might misuse them. Boycotting Flock ignores how effective it is at solving realtime hit and runs, violent crimes, and stolen vehicle cases,
Plus, mass surveillance isn't a problem for regular joes or working class people or non criminal, it's a problem for the rich and powerful and criminal. I don't know why we're doing their dirty work by boycotting it.
i just dont value privacy to a point of hating system like flock, its for crime fighting and im not like important person, so why would i care if people know where i go and my routine, unless the goverment start robbing me than i might change my stand but i trust the goverment enough to not having problem with it
Mass surveillance a problem for the rich and powerful? What? You buy enough Trump coin and the president will pardon you. No biggie.
Meanwhile in a country that's branding being against fascism as a crime or even terrorism you could have very serious consequences for just holding up the wrong poster at a demonstration.
Your arguments feel like you haven't been watching the news for the last 15 years. In the past people would warn about mass surveillance and it always had a theoretical feel to it and was easy to dismiss. Then Snowden came along and then Trump II and shit has gotten very real.
mass surveillance isn’t a problem for regular joes
OK, why don't you post your email and password here. While your at it, how bout your icloud or google storage accounts (or similar). You have nothing to hide, right? It shouldn't be an issue for the masses here to surveil your accounts for you. You know, just to make sure your not doing anything shady.
Why treat the public and the government as identical? The government operates under professional standards and official accountability. It’s like saying that because I trust a doctor to perform surgery, I should let anyone cut into my body
I get what you're trying to do, you're trying to show how uncomfortable it feels to lose privacy. But here's see it: the masses can't be held accountable if someone misuses your data. How would you even track down who abused the information once everyone has access to it?
Plus, being forced to hand over your personal life alone while everyone else stays hidden isn't the same as a universal system where everyone operates under the exact same standard rules.
Hey heres the fun thing about your argument that they will be more responsible than the public. Flock and Axxon and all the rest of those companies that you hold so much trust in...they arent the government. They aren't even regulated by the government. They are a private company with people just like you and me working there, with unfettered access to your data. They have no accountability and no oversight. They are a FOR PROFIT business that will do anything they can to MAKE PROFIT. But you keep licking that boot there.
I don't think any business can be completely unregulated. Does that change the fact that private companies still have to operate under professional standards and official accountability? Plus, saying people who work for a private company are 'just like you and me' (implying they act like the general masses) is a stretch. People who work in government are also just regular human beings. Since private companies are in it for profit, isn't it in their best interest to avoid shady practices? Doing illegal things would simply destroy their own business
It creates profiles on you even if youve done nothing wrong. What car you drive, what condition that car is in, bumper stickers, scratches etc are used to ID you. It tracks when you leave and come home and on what days, so it knows when you work. It knows whos in your family based on photos of people in the car and matching that against the profiles flock (or any of the Ai driven monitoring cameras) have on that person. It can pick you out of a crowd based on body size and walking gait without even seeing your face, if it has enough data. Say for example, my neighborhood has one or two. I walk around the block a few times a week. Im now searchable in a crowd. Also, i hate flock so i flick those cameras off when i pass them. Im now on a list of possible dissenters and will be higher on the suspect list if something happens to those cameras. Its thought crime shit and is unconstitutional and dystopian.
It tracks everywhere vehicles travel. It'a not legal to obscure a license plate---in contrast, someone could, say, turn off a cell phone---so it does mass monitoring of movement of society.
Sure, you could use it to facilitate solving crimes, but by the same token, eliminating warrants could also facilitate solving crimes. The idea that our lawgivers had was that that was too much power to hand over.
122 Comments
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 230 pts · 1d
We need to spread this to the other mass surveillance companies, starting with Palantir.
fonix232@fedia.io · 81 pts · 1d
Sadly Palantir works in the shadows unlike Flock, harder to point out to people
EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip · 40 pts · 1d
The most easily recognizable by people would be Google and Meta. Those two top the charts for non-consensual surveillance. I think those to need to be reigned in big time, along with some of the other big tech companies. All are anti-consumer. I guess at least those try to have some level of transparency, but they still have awful business practices.
matlag@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 20h
You'd still be amazed and depressed by how much people are underestimating the level of surveillance from Google, Meta and the others.
distal@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 1d
I've seen Palantir employees in Charlottenburg while visiting Berlin in 2023 ;) They are not as invisible as you would think. They'll wear clothing from Patagonia with the branding
Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip · 20 pts · 1d
What's the name of the alternative camera company thats been gaining ground while folks are angry about flock?
bagelberger@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 1d
Axon, same company that makes body cameras for police
borkborkbork@piefed.social · 5 pts · 1d
From the same assholes who brought you tasers
NOPper@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 31 pts · 1d
Axon, Genetec, Vigilant (Motorola), Rekor, Leonardo... A lot of them and the tech is pretty easy so a hundred other smaller companies. It needs to be banned at the national level by law for any actual change, but good luck convincing the government not to build out the Panopticon they seem to want so badly.
Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 1d
Thank you for the list! ❤️
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 1d
I have some hope that counties and states will end up making different contracts with different companies at different times, and that interoperability will be a very late afterthought just like it is in the rest of the proprietary software world, leaving various jurisdictions with many uncoordinated and incompatible databases and applications. Every proprietary software maker does the same thing, they don't make their data system open or accessible unless some outside pressure forces it.
Also some states and counties are putting bans or other regulatory restrictions in place, which will help add to the general confusion and compatibility issues.
For those of you working in tech fields that may be related, now is the time to take all of the lessons you've learned about how bad, selfish proprietary software is made, all the annoyances and roadblocks you've run into over the years trying to make disparate bits of technology work together, and start implementing those as features. If someone questions it, tell them it's necessary to protect company intellectual property. Make it clunky.
im_fine_sandy@nord.pub · 11 pts · 1d
I don't have that kind of faith in humanity.
Flock has failed but they really just serve as a demonstration of what not to do, for dozens of other companies.
People much smarter than me will have already mapped it out.
ExtremeDullard@piefed.social · 86 pts · 1d
The funny thing with Flock is, people have their pants in a knot over the egregious surveillance they conduct - and rightfully so. Yet they've been letting themselves be put under constant surveillance for over two decades now, and there are plenty of other Flocks out there doing just as egregious shit today that nobody has heard about.
Flock is a lightning rod. But I fear when they they finally go belly up, their competitors will learn the lesson and keep even more quiet - and people will forget, as they always do.
boydster@sh.itjust.works · 28 pts · 1d
Axon has been paying attention, you better believe
adjectivenoun@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 1d
I think what makes Flock (and Axon, Motorola, etc.) particularly repulsive is the inability to opt out. I can leave my phone at home. I can choose not to bring Smart Devices into my home to spy on me. If there's a Flock camera at the exit of your neighborhood, your comings and goings are being monitored 24/7. (Before anyone mentions it, I can completely disable and deenergize the "SOS" feature in my car.)
realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip · 8 pts · 1d
Most surveillance companies offer a benefit. Google offers a tremendous amount of services, as an example.
Flock is just surveillance without societal benefit. Just benefitting power hungry governments.
neidu4@piefed.social · 79 pts · 1d
Remember that Flock isn't the only company with this exact business model. Cities ditching Flock is moving to their competitors instead.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 56 pts · 1d
We need to make it clear that we are opposed to the concept, not a specific company.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 1d
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 18h
They understand that, but will remain purposely obtuse to it. We need to continue to remind them, it's like potty training a puppy.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3h
Rubs city council member's face on an ALPR camera
"No! Bad!"
farmgineer@nord.pub · 56 pts · 1d
I'm possibly losing my job and currently job-hunting. I've seen open positions for Palantir and Flock and would sooner be dead than working for them.
bus_factor@lemmy.world · 46 pts · 1d
You should still apply, though. Because people hate them, they likely need to offer higher salaries to compensate, just like Meta does. You can use these high offers to negotiate a better salary at a more palatable company. Also, it wastes the time of a scumbag company, so win-win.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 1d
Do we really want to put other, ethical companies under strain just because anti-ethical companies have lots of dirty cash pumped into them to pay higher?
javasux@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 1d
In the absence of unionization, the worker should take every opportunity to bolster their position in the employer/employee power imbalance
wewbull@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 1d
Even a union will balance pay demands against other benefits.
bus_factor@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 22h
So can you. You don't need to have them match the other offer.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 8 pts · 21h
Yes
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 1d
you don't have to use the leverage unless you need to
better to be prepared
I've yet to apply to a company that didn't low ball me on the contract offer
oopsgodisdeadmybad@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 2h
What the actual FUCK is an "ethical company"? A tiny one could be, even a small one. But if they have a C suite, they deserve bankruptcy.
Simple as.
btsax@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 1d
Yes?
wewbull@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 1d
After a certain level of salary, I'd rather work for an ethical company than get more money. I'd also rather ethical companies don't collapse.
So I'd say No.
bus_factor@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 22h
Yeah, and having another offer both helps you get an offer (because you look more attractive), and helps you negotiate for the level of salary you need to rather work for them.
I've taken a pay cut when switching jobs before. I still used my old salary to make them give me the best offer they could muster. You may be surprised to learn that it didn't bankrupt them.
kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1h
they won't increase the wages if they can't afford it lol
most of what people call "ethical companies" still rip off people by a decent margin
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 1d
gum up thier hiring system and then dont show up.
Avicenna@programming.dev · 6 pts · 1d
just apply but have an AI write everything as if you are a suberp candidate, just to increase their workload. In the least they will have to google you to see you don't exist.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net · 50 pts · 1d
if only this was the case with ICE.
adjectivenoun@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 1d
I could imagine plenty of normal people going to work for a company that purportedly wants to use technology to improve the security of communities. A naive person may not think, "wait, isn't this turning my country into a dystopian surveillance state?" Nobody that works for ICE got there naively. They were selected from the worst America has to offer.
arak@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 1d
The ice employees hate people of color more even if they are 🤡
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 18h
I can't even imagine how toxic that work environment must be.
Triasha@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 1d
Employees quitting their jobs at orphancrusher.com.
Good.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 39 pts · 1d
as they should be, but cities are swithcing over to AXON, MOTOROLA and others but with more obscure cameras.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 29 pts · 1d
And that's exactly how it should be, only they should be quitting faster and in greater numbers.
Dogiedog64@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 1d
GOOD.
Burn this fucking company and any like it to the ground.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 27 pts · 1d
Good, now do all the other fascist enabling tech companies too.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
Uh oh, we’ve accidentally dismantled the entire system of capitalism.
doomchapel666@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 1d
we did it, reddit
ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com · 23 pts · 1d
A better world, through cyberbullying.
jtrek@startrek.website · 11 pts · 1d
The only things that change people's minds are peer pressure and trauma. Facts won't do it. You can show someone all the facts in the world proving that their job sucks, but they won't care. But if all their friends and family start calling their a boot licking shit head and won't hang out with them? They'll feel that.
Maeve@kbin.earth · 6 pts · 1d
No it won't. A lot of times people double down.
Maeve@kbin.earth · 2 pts · 1d
https://piefed.social/comment/12995431
LeftReddit2@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 1d
Feels nice to wake up to good news for once.
Quexotic@infosec.pub · 19 pts · 22h
"We want the [flock safety] to be traumatically affected...When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. We want their funding to be shut down so that the [the surveillance state] can't do all of the [Fourth Amendment Violations] against our [population] because they have no bandwidth financially to do so.
“We want to put them in trauma.”
Russell Vaught, paraphrased.
reka@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3h
I have never heard of these words. God these people really are nazis aren't they?
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 21h
motruck@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 19h
The cogs need to understand that while it is definitely harder for you to change you are still a part of the problem machine. Thenk you for leaving.
pluge@piefed.social · 17 pts · 1d
Now do Axon and Vigilant/Motorola!
Chozo@fedia.io · 4 pts · 1d
Doesn't Axon do bodycams/dashcams? I like those, they put a bit of accountability on the police.
Unless they're also doing ALPRs, in which case fuck 'em straight to hell.
Maeve@kbin.earth · 6 pts · 1d
They are
frongt@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1d
They are, but only local systems. They don't do the national network like Flock. Each PD would only have access to their own system.
Chozo@fedia.io · 4 pts · 1d
I suppose that's better, but only "better" in the same sense that drinking piss is "better" than drinking diarrhea.
custom_username@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 1d
Sucks though, it's only a software update away from being national.
DesertCreosote@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 1d
My city does both Flock and Motorola. Motorola does also have a shared national network, they’re just a lot quieter about it than Flock.
asg101@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 16 pts · 1d
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 1d
khaleer@sopuli.xyz · 14 pts · 1d
It's not a good start. Good start would be to sabotage company the first day they discovered what they are doing, You are all in delulu
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 20 pts · 1d
Kinda difficult to be unemployed under capitalism.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 21h
Sabotage requires insiders. They would still be employed.
innermachine@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 21h
I dunno people on here seem to find plenty of ways to shit on people in the military. Would rather be in the service than actively gutting the countries rights and budget from the inside for a profit, but what do I know I'm not part of either. I just spin my wrenches and mind mine.
DementedSociety@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 1d
GOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!
IamMoonPie@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
Now do Axxon!
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 1d
MOTOROLA is another.
sportsjorts@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 3h
Good. Fuck anyone who works for flock. It’s not a job you are an agent of the facist state you fucks.
ExtremeDullard@piefed.social · 10 pts · 1d
Not demoralized enough...
My company counts Flock among our customers. Well, not really: they only bought one thing from us some years ago. But what they bought failed a few months ago, and I've had to deal with one of their employees for technical support: the guy was probably among the most arrogant customer employees I've had to deal with professionally.
Considering who he works for, I had to make a real effort to stay courteous and professional with him, let me tell you...
limonfiesta@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Dox him on his "local" boards i.e. NextDoor, Facebook groups, etc.
Nazis and fascists don't deserve privacy.
Edit: frongt@lemmy.zip feels strongly that Nazis and fascists deserve privacy. Brave.
ExtremeDullard@piefed.social · -1 pts · 1d
No way. I like my job.
limonfiesta@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1d
Gust@piefed.social · -1 pts · 1d
I dont mean to call you out, but are you proud of your "annoyed but politely compliant" response to actively being part of a supply chain for surveillance tech? Based solely on this post, your distaste comes off somewhat disingenuous if it doesn't affect your actions in any meaningful way
ExtremeDullard@piefed.social · 5 pts · 1d
It's called being professional. What do you expect me to do on the job? Take the initiative and insult a customer because I don't like them? That's a surefire way to get the sack.
Gust@piefed.social · 1 pts · 1d
If being a professional means providing no resistance while building the machinery of fascism, are you proud of that? Standing by your principles is not free, I get that. Pretending you care about said principles while actively spending your productive time working against those principles is not the kind of thing I'd be bragging about in an online leftist community though. Real "just following orders" energy
ExtremeDullard@piefed.social · 11 pts · 1d
You assume there are no other ways to fight fascism than to jeopardize one's ability to pay the bills.
As it happens, I'm quite senior at my company, and I think I've pretty much convinced sales to drop this customer, should they ever order anything else, on the grounds that they're quite toxic and we really don't want to be associated with them.
So there ya go: I still have my job and they most likely lost a supplier.
Chozo@fedia.io · 3 pts · 1d
Brother, you don't even know the nature of the deal his employer has with Flock. For all you know Flock just bought some gravel from him for a driveway, calm down. People got bills to pay, and you can't fight fascism on an empty stomach.
Lemmy World isn't really a "leftist" community. It's left-leaning, if you're being generous.
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org · 9 pts · 1d
Good.
melroy@kbin.melroy.org · 9 pts · 1d
Good
Maeve@kbin.earth · 6 pts · 1d
So there's still Axon and the other one.
xc2215x@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Glad Flock is crumbling.
eurodyne@piefed.world · 4 pts · 1d
It’s a good start, but there’s a lot more work to do
Suavevillain@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
This is a good start at least. I wish people who work for ICE do the same.
Tiral@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Hell no. It's the only semblance of power those people have. They'd never quit.
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1h
Good! Good. Keep it going.
TryingToBeGood@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 1d
Ok.
heartSagan5@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 18h
This just plays into C-suite hands because now, they don't have the payroll and benefit expenses. The better play is to be incompetent, while collecting a check.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 2h
as they should
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d
And here I thought working at SCO while IBM poured millions into groklaw and other PR to make the world hate us was a bad enough experience.
adespoton@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d
Er, you worked for the new SCO? That IP clearinghouse didn’t need Groklaw to make people hate them.
The problem was SCO’s own legal team and C Suite.
I have nothing but respect for the original SCO, but I have a hard time seeing the one that sued IBM as much more than a side business to being an IP holding company that turned out to be holding less IP than they thought.
dhork@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Maybe they'll be hired for a new Alphabet-owned project to do the same thing. Hey can call it "Gaggle"....
Smaile@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d
employees are not good people and not innocent,they should get charged anything under the sun when then company goes under
Tiral@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
It just depends I guess. It's like WW2, do you put every soldier on trial for genocide? It would take a decade plus, and you can't just lump them together and say "you're all guilty" of the same thing, 5 years. You'd have to have due process for every single person with evidence.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
:-|
We prosecuted US mafias and cartels en mass fairly recently. The Mafia Commission Trial prosecuted eleven leading organized crime figures at once. The Atlanta Public Schools cheating scandal trial involved 35 defendants, simultaneously. The Chicago Seven trial originally involved eight defendants at once (reduced to seven when Bobby Seale's case was declared a mistrial after the judge effectively tortured him in front of the jury).
That said, conspiracy trials only need to link the defendants within a chain of action. They don't need individual trials for each defendant. "We can prove all these people were in the same organization together planning to do a crime" is sufficient to prosecute them as a unit.
Smaile@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d
Honestly yah they should, big dif today is that we have detailed files on these people though employment and company records, another dif is that this company was evil from the start unlike the German army that got hyjacked, back then I would have said every officer and every senior NCO is getting trialed. These days we have more info so it's even easier to determine guilt.
bold_atlas@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
It was doable if you cut out the trial part. Plans were contemplated by the allies. Should have followed through.
binux@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 1d
…
Zahille7@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Fucking good
Randelung@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1h
That'll distill them into even less conscience. I doubt they'll collapse.
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -4 pts · 1d
👍
Kyunw@lemmy.world · -13 pts · 1d
can someone explain to me why people against flock soo much? isnt that just to track like traffic violation? isnt that good? so people not drive recklessly
Fridgeratr@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 1d
The problem is there's already been a bunch of cases of misuse; officers looking up their ex's info and location. Plus, it's been discovered that they also track the location and daily routine of anyone living nearby. So you really want such an insecure system knowing exactly where you are?
Kyunw@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 1d
I get ur concern about bad cop abusing authorit, cops who stalk people using state databases should be fired and prosecuted, but there a major difference between boycotting a technology entirely and putting better safety measure on it. People dont ban police databases, dispatch systems, or traffic cameras just because a bad cop might misuse them. Boycotting Flock ignores how effective it is at solving realtime hit and runs, violent crimes, and stolen vehicle cases,
Plus, mass surveillance isn't a problem for regular joes or working class people or non criminal, it's a problem for the rich and powerful and criminal. I don't know why we're doing their dirty work by boycotting it.
J_N_F@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
Hard to tell if you're a plant or an ignoramus
FunStuffIsFun@eviltoast.org · 8 pts · 1d
2 hour old account and these 3 comments are all it has.
Kyunw@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
because i just learn about lemmy from googling about reddit alternative, like yesterday and i just made an account like hours ago
Kyunw@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 1d
i just dont value privacy to a point of hating system like flock, its for crime fighting and im not like important person, so why would i care if people know where i go and my routine, unless the goverment start robbing me than i might change my stand but i trust the goverment enough to not having problem with it
OriginalTangle@feddit.org · 6 pts · 1d
Mass surveillance a problem for the rich and powerful? What? You buy enough Trump coin and the president will pardon you. No biggie.
Meanwhile in a country that's branding being against fascism as a crime or even terrorism you could have very serious consequences for just holding up the wrong poster at a demonstration.
Your arguments feel like you haven't been watching the news for the last 15 years. In the past people would warn about mass surveillance and it always had a theoretical feel to it and was easy to dismiss. Then Snowden came along and then Trump II and shit has gotten very real.
Kyunw@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 1d
i dont think they care about the goverment rather than their activity is being use against them by their rival / blackmail
LogicalDrivel@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 1d
OK, why don't you post your email and password here. While your at it, how bout your icloud or google storage accounts (or similar). You have nothing to hide, right? It shouldn't be an issue for the masses here to surveil your accounts for you. You know, just to make sure your not doing anything shady.
Kyunw@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 20h
Why treat the public and the government as identical? The government operates under professional standards and official accountability. It’s like saying that because I trust a doctor to perform surgery, I should let anyone cut into my body
I get what you're trying to do, you're trying to show how uncomfortable it feels to lose privacy. But here's see it: the masses can't be held accountable if someone misuses your data. How would you even track down who abused the information once everyone has access to it?
Plus, being forced to hand over your personal life alone while everyone else stays hidden isn't the same as a universal system where everyone operates under the exact same standard rules.
LogicalDrivel@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 19h
Hey heres the fun thing about your argument that they will be more responsible than the public. Flock and Axxon and all the rest of those companies that you hold so much trust in...they arent the government. They aren't even regulated by the government. They are a private company with people just like you and me working there, with unfettered access to your data. They have no accountability and no oversight. They are a FOR PROFIT business that will do anything they can to MAKE PROFIT. But you keep licking that boot there.
Kyunw@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 18h
I don't think any business can be completely unregulated. Does that change the fact that private companies still have to operate under professional standards and official accountability? Plus, saying people who work for a private company are 'just like you and me' (implying they act like the general masses) is a stretch. People who work in government are also just regular human beings. Since private companies are in it for profit, isn't it in their best interest to avoid shady practices? Doing illegal things would simply destroy their own business
LogicalDrivel@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 15h
OK, im done feeding the troll. Im half convinced your just an ai script anyways.
LogicalDrivel@sopuli.xyz · 13 pts · 1d
It creates profiles on you even if youve done nothing wrong. What car you drive, what condition that car is in, bumper stickers, scratches etc are used to ID you. It tracks when you leave and come home and on what days, so it knows when you work. It knows whos in your family based on photos of people in the car and matching that against the profiles flock (or any of the Ai driven monitoring cameras) have on that person. It can pick you out of a crowd based on body size and walking gait without even seeing your face, if it has enough data. Say for example, my neighborhood has one or two. I walk around the block a few times a week. Im now searchable in a crowd. Also, i hate flock so i flick those cameras off when i pass them. Im now on a list of possible dissenters and will be higher on the suspect list if something happens to those cameras. Its thought crime shit and is unconstitutional and dystopian.
OriginalTangle@feddit.org · 6 pts · 1d
You pair that tech with the stuff that's been going on with ICE in the US and it's absolutely terrifying.
tal@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 1d
It tracks everywhere vehicles travel. It'a not legal to obscure a license plate---in contrast, someone could, say, turn off a cell phone---so it does mass monitoring of movement of society.
Sure, you could use it to facilitate solving crimes, but by the same token, eliminating warrants could also facilitate solving crimes. The idea that our lawgivers had was that that was too much power to hand over.