It definitely is/was. Most user facing software these days is a web app, or native application using JS anyways. The event loop and async programming is also ubiquitous nowadays in most languages, especially server side.
I'm guessing they started with the portraits and then built out a kind of mood board around them. Javascript is not disruptive in any good way, but people who like Javascript (and Apple and so on) might think they are.
I mean from inception until now it has been a huge change in programming. Node changed a lot of things. Typescript changed a lot of things. React changed a lot of things.
A long way since GWT which google was doing because its java devs hated js
It really seems like the creator didn't bother with spacing at all. Something that did consider spacing within quadrants wouldn't have its items this closely packed together.
Pasting objects into text files is pretty disruptive. The only other coding editor I know that can do that is DrRacket with images. I mean the guy invented an entire OS, C variant, several programs... all incompatible with traditional ones, simply because of his unique personal beliefs.
Pasting objects into text files is pretty disruptive
It's still text with some formatting underneath, though, just like HTML. Actually, in HTML we already have it in form of contenteditable attribute. You can straight up paste images and move other html elements into elements with it. I just checked, you can even do this with full on canvas elements and animated webgl views if you wanted to for some reason, though the code must be adjusted to account for it. I have yet to see it being useful and not a liability, though.
Nah, vibe coders are definitionally reliant on highy disruptive, literally economy destabilizing 'AIs', that are made by the most gigantic of megacorps and foundations.
That would make them so far into soydev they are off the chart to the bottom right, and it would also mean you'd be grilling Impossible Burgers.
But also super far into cogdev because the largest investors in those efforts by far are the established tech giants that have been around for years, so they are directly supporting the biggest players getting bigger
I hear what you are saying, but you can't ignore the disruption vs traditional axis of 'brand new shit' vs 'archaic shit that is still the basis of everything for probably a lot of good reasons.'
Thats the y axis.
The x axis is basically full corpo on the right, full foss/anarchist on the left.
So, the vibe coder is a soydev who works for cogdevs, or people somewhere between cogdev and soydev.
Here's how I look at this.
Maybe if you went with... not the corners of the quadrants, but the tips of the axes, you'd get:
top:
ancient wizard of languages that aren't even really taught anymore (COBOL, for example), but which everything actually runs on if you dig deep enough.
bottom:
hyper early adopter / innovator / formal researcher who does things because they can, asking about "should we do this?" is for cowards, yolo, etc
left:
open source radical anarchist, money is a disgusting thing that is unfortunately somewhat necessary to fund development
right:
full corpo bastard, code doesn't actually matter, making money from code matters.
Further down in this thread, under another comment, I basically tried to do a 'personality test' or maybe 'ttrpg archetype description' style write up of the corners of the quadrants... at least my way of trying to make sense out of what I think whoever made this image is going for.
There is that weird conspiracy theory that soybeans contain an estrogen adjacent substance which makes men more feminine. Complete nonsense but it gets especially funny when these people are advocating for cows milk instead of soy milk, because the former actually contains mammalian estrogen.
Soy does contain plant based estrogens but it's in meaningless quantities.
Some pregnancy institutions do tell pregnant ladies to refrain from soy products. But that's because they consider the research to not be complete yet. So it's just a precaution based on lack of research and not on any actual known harm.
Here is the way I am interpreting the names for the extreme stereotypes of quadrants/corners:
Cogdev:
cog in the machine, you are fully subsumed into 'the process', you have abandoned the shackles of humanity as you once knew them, and view an org flow chart of people and teams producing some software nearly identically to how you would look at a process flow chart for actual software systems.
souls are not only superfluous, but due to be patched out entirely in the next semi-annual release, you don't see why anyone would need one or miss them.
Soydev:
you are cogdev, but you are also delusional and think you are not; you think what you are doing is some kind of 'good' in some way, some way that will achieve some nebulous concept of making 'things' 'better' for some kind of group of people.
you aren't, and you won't, but delusion is your superpower; your ego has an actually physically measurable mass.
until, that is, you finally have your cognitive dissonance either totally erode or violently shatter, and then you realize you are are no different from cogdev in anyway other than branding and marketing... which are at least practical skills for you to better serve your corporate masters.
fake it till you make, or else fake it till you break it and then crash out like an unpotty trained billionaire.
Hypedev:
you are actually fucking around with novel shit that may potentially yield an actual paradigm shift, but you also probably know that almost no one will notice this paradigm shift... and it could all just be a giant waste of time anyway.
you probably either don't really care, or care way, way, waaaay too much.
doesn't really matter either way, not like you're gonna get rich from this, you're not in it to win it, you're in it to find every possible way to fail untill all that remains is probably an actual good idea. ... maybe?
decent chance you have anger issues, intermittent explosive disorder, bidpolar disorder, some kind of dysphoria, hyper-autism, etc.
Libredev:
you are good, probably quite good, at what you do, but this means you can tend to view anything other than the way you do things as unreliable or unproven.
on the one hand, people like you disappear completely? utter catastrophe with maybe a 3 to 9 month fuse.
on the other hand... people like you largely in fact are disappearing, so... maybe it would be a good idea to dial down the 'get-off-my-lawn-o-meter' such that you could at least maybe teach someone how to follow in your footsteps...
... or, god forbid, go through all your own code and actually document and comment it such that someone other than literally only you may have a chance at understanding any of it.
Agreed. Infantile and basically a slur on people because of their dietary choices. Part of a pattern of language that is basically alt-right bait for young insecure and disaffected men.
Edit: Adding a link to an article I saw on the orange site. The Four Dark Laws of online engagement are a nice little cheat sheet for the patterns you see repeatedly online. Negatively biased language that targets an out group has a virality amongst this audience: https://www.derekthompson.org/p/all-the-sad-young-terminally-online
Looking at how much of a reach some of the disruptive + proprietary stuff is... Yeah, there isn't a lot of recent innovative proprietary stuff, is there?
Although I would put Chrome under "disruptive". It absolutely was when it released decades ago, and even now it's still changing the browser landscape.
Part of the reason for its disruption is that Chromium is open source (BSD licence), built on Webkit that was open source, which was built on khtml from the KDE project which was open source. That is how we got to Microsoft Edge also running on Chromium.
If it wasn't for the monoculture aspect and the actions of some of the companies using it, khtml->Chromium would be a great open source success story.
A lot of the systems are quite stabilized. No need for a new OS, a new browser, a new language.
Even if the old stuff isn't perfectly optimal, having to setup a fully-new ecosystem is so incredibly costly that it's just not worth it.
That's why you see new developments (e.g. Typescript or Kotlin) piggyback on older ecosystems (e.g. JavaScript or Java compatibility).
Typescript could have been better if it was a completely fresh development without being encumbered by the madness that is JavaScript. But without JavaScript compatibility and thus acces to the JS ecosystem, nobody would have switched to TS.
All these systems heavily benefit from network effects, which makes it hard to impossible for completely new systems to emerge.
This is doubly strong for consumer-facing software. Linux only became a viable mainstream option due to Wine/Proton/... allowing users to easily run Windows programs. Without Windows compatibility, Linux would still be at <1% desktop market share.
It's also the same reason why everyone's making chromium-based browsers: Because that way they all work the same.
Disruptive change happens when you get a completely fresh use case. Microsoft completely destroyed the likes of Commodore and IBM when home computers became something that everyone had in their homes.
Smartphones becoming mainstream allowed Google and Apple, who were both completely new to the mobile OS business, to win against established mobile OS companies, because nothing was entrenched in the late 2000s mobile OS landscape.
OpenAI, Anthropic, Midjourney and so on are wiping the floor with established software powerhouses in the AI space.
But after the disruption follows stabilization. A product that has reached market saturation will only be replaced by incremental, compatible improvements.
Zig is actually pretty easy to get into. I got a Raylib game scaffold with scene switching running in a couple of hours from scratch, with no prior knowledge of the Zig language or ecosystem whatsoever.
I started using git to track my dotfiles maybe one-ish years after I first fully adopted Linux as my daily driver.. I think it's been a little over 5 years and before I converted to nix that git history told a story of immense frustration of never being able to get my desktop and laptop to be identical. For some reason some projects only ran on one of the 2 machines. There was a period in my life when I didn't use my desktop for 2 months because it just didn't work well enough, OCD is really fucking painful. Nix saved my relationship with both of my computers, and my desk, and my spine. I haven't used my laptop and maybe a month and I may have changed my workstation a couple hundred times in this period, I will with absolute confidence say that the next time I decide to use my laptop I can just run git pull and nixos rebuild and my laptop will be just the same as my desktop (minus obligatory build fixes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
NixOS answers that question I always had, "Do I have random residue from programs I uninstalled years ago lying around on my system?", with a resounding "No", and it feels amazing.
That's just the Emacs logo in the top-left. At least I assume Emacs has a terminal since there's that old "Vim proverb" about Emacs being a "great OS, it just lacks a good editor."
I was about to say C# seems to be in a weird spot here.
It's entirely FOSS. It does of course have corporate daddy providing dev resources for it but it definitely is not anywhere near the location for proprietary as Java.
It should be well and truly on the same side of this graph as Rust.
That's not quite true. If you can't complete a build without a proprietary dependency, it's not really foss even if all the source code is freely available, because you can't exercise the freedom 1 (or 3). Similarly, if there's not a FOSS RTS, you can't exercise freedom 0.
it's definitely generalized, but I'd say I fit the disruptive open source type, though i respect the trad open source guys a lot.. But, like.. as of currently, I can't even call myself an actual programmer seeing as I write stories instead of code nowadays..
I think there's a healthy amount of bs in there (Chrome, C# as traditional?), but some of it checks out. I like a mix of old and new but try to stay away from proprietary. Current favorites are probably Emacs, NixOS, and Rust.
Freedom is to proprietary as libertarian is to authoritarian. Tradition is to distruption as political right is to political left. Better would be for the x axis to be left-to-right disruption->tradition and the y axis to be bottom-to-top freedom->proprietary. So, rotated 90° counterclockwise and then mirrored left-to-right.
No, I mean the whole chart should be rotated, including the labels. I want "freedom" to be across the bottom and "proprietary" to be across the top, so that it matches "libertarian" and "authoritarian" on the political compass.
("Tradition" and "disruption" don't map to "left" and "right" quite as well, but if it were exact it would just be the political compass instead of just analogous to it.)
I had a couple of jobs that only allows Macs. It was horrible. The M1 Mac couldn't do 3 monitors(two side by side and main monitor). What kind of "PRO" system doesn't allow 3 monitors?!?!
I remember using 3 on Windows 7 in like 2015. That's crazy. And I think I could open the laptop to get 4. This was an IBM Thinkpad with a dock. I wonder if USB C and dongles have made it harder somehow?
Using 2x FHD 16:10 monitors and 1x 4K 16:9 with my laptop FHD 16:9.
The monitors are connected with a USB-C docking station over 1x HDMI amd 2x DP.
The laptop does struggle a bit (fan ramping more than usual) but it's capable of doing so
160 Comments
Sibshops@lemmy.myserv.one · 188 pts · 333d
Javascript being disruptive technology is.. A take for sure.
Tja@programming.dev · 164 pts · 333d
When your self driving car is written in react you'll understand.
dangling_cat@piefed.blahaj.zone · 28 pts · 333d
Self driving cars? Think human interface on spaceships!
https://os-system.com/blog/javascript-in-space-spacex-devs-have-shared-crewdragons-tech-stack/
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 333d
I'm sure Musk hand coded it in JS and then paid some underpaid dude who is only slightly less abused in the US instead of india to unfuck his dogshit.
psud@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 329d
You seem to have a higher opinion of Musk than is common here. Most wouldn't expect him to know what JavaScript was
pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 333d
I'll understand briefly, as my life flashes before my eyes? Haha.
DrunkAnRoot@sh.itjust.works · 35 pts · 333d
8 frameworks and waiting for fingerprinting scripte to load just for the website to run at 1 frame every minute
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 333d
Isn't that more just website developers adding completely unnecessary shit that hog resources?
marcos@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 333d
It always disrupted everything, and is getting only better on that with time.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 333d
Disrupting my low ram usage
mormund@feddit.org · 13 pts · 333d
It definitely is/was. Most user facing software these days is a web app, or native application using JS anyways. The event loop and async programming is also ubiquitous nowadays in most languages, especially server side.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 7 pts · 333d
I'm guessing they started with the portraits and then built out a kind of mood board around them. Javascript is not disruptive in any good way, but people who like Javascript (and Apple and so on) might think they are.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 333d
But the most disruptive technology of all is Steve Jobs's face.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 332d
The most disruptive proprietary one, yes.
Linus is down there too.
belated_frog_pants@beehaw.org · 2 pts · 333d
I mean from inception until now it has been a huge change in programming. Node changed a lot of things. Typescript changed a lot of things. React changed a lot of things.
A long way since GWT which google was doing because its java devs hated js
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 4 pts · 333d
Exactly, disruptive does not have to be a good thing.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 333d
Sibshops@lemmy.myserv.one · 3 pts · 333d
True, but so was Windows.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 333d
favoredponcho@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 333d
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 106 pts · 333d
How the fuck is C++ more traditional than C?
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 47 pts · 333d
To me it looks like to position within each of quadrant want taken into account.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 35 pts · 333d
It really seems like the creator didn't bother with spacing at all. Something that did consider spacing within quadrants wouldn't have its items this closely packed together.
aaaaaaaaargh@feddit.org · 21 pts · 333d
I think it's not meant to be more traditional, the icon positions seem random and only the square they're located is important.
sudo@programming.dev · 15 pts · 333d
C was incredibly disruptive 50 years ago.
FiniteLooper@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 333d
Tradition++
richardisaguy@lemmy.world · 55 pts · 333d
This is a very confusing image
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 50 pts · 333d
Ok, now ... where does TempleOS and HolyC belong on this chart?
jwt@programming.dev · 61 pts · 333d
*Sigh*. Fine, let's introduce a z-axis specifically for Terry A. Davis.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 16 pts · 333d
So what you're saying is that... he is either from, belongs to, or should be placed on...
... another plane of existence?
lololololollool
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 333d
Dead center with God
Honytawk@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 333d
Why would god be a middledev?
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 333d
Ah, so your idea is that they exist at a location with an imaginary component, they exist in an unvisualized, complex plane?
teeheehee
Feathercrown@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 332d
Maximum freedom, and somehow joining the maximum points on the tradition and disruption axes, forcefully bending the chart into some sort of cylinder
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 332d
Hrm ok so your model is less of a defined space a point can exist in, and is instead a topology that a point must exist on.
drath@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 332d
Eh, I wouldn't say TempleOS is disruptive. It was literally started off as a modern-day C64 successor. So, tradition all the way.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 332d
Pasting objects into text files is pretty disruptive. The only other coding editor I know that can do that is DrRacket with images. I mean the guy invented an entire OS, C variant, several programs... all incompatible with traditional ones, simply because of his unique personal beliefs.
drath@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 332d
It's still text with some formatting underneath, though, just like HTML. Actually, in HTML we already have it in form of
contenteditableattribute. You can straight up paste images and move other html elements into elements with it. I just checked, you can even do this with full on canvas elements and animated webgl views if you wanted to for some reason, though the code must be adjusted to account for it. I have yet to see it being useful and not a liability, though.Feathercrown@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 330d
True, I guess it's just a type of hypertext. Still, hypertext in a code editor is underexplored.
julien@programming.dev · 3 pts · 330d
It needs a Z axis for hobby vs enterprise.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 330d
There we go, there, that actually makes sense to me, thank you!
I want to know what a corpo hobbyist traditionalist language is though, lol.
Like uh... I make vba / excel macros in my spare time for fun, lol?
julien@programming.dev · 2 pts · 329d
That's where retrocomputing comes into play I guess, Haha!
Those people running Windows 2000 or XP on old computers or VMs and making old-school dotnet web forms apps for it.
I can imagine myself doing this one day, just for nostalgia. 😄
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 333d
some one in the middle
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 25 pts · 333d
Nah, vibe coders are definitionally reliant on highy disruptive, literally economy destabilizing 'AIs', that are made by the most gigantic of megacorps and foundations.
That would make them so far into soydev they are off the chart to the bottom right, and it would also mean you'd be grilling Impossible Burgers.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 333d
yeah idk it was more of a from the hip impulsive thing. I'm a simple shitposter. I see poltiical compass and I just want to grill.
Also:
I didn't realize there were going to be personal attacks.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 333d
I mean, all my responses in this thread have been hip shooting as well lol.
And its not a personal attack to say if you're a soydev, you're grillin' soy burgers.
I mean sure, maybe they're not quite the same taste as beef, but uh, nothin' really wrong with a less than totally conventional burger, imo.
Its just a joke lol, didn't mean to offend, just word/concept association = joke/pun, thats roughly how my autistic ass formulates 'zingers' lol.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 333d
I meant it as a joke. I eat impossible burgers erry day.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 333d
Orly?
I've only had one once, and I'd like to try them again.
... please invite me to your soy grill please ...
kautau@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 333d
But also super far into cogdev because the largest investors in those efforts by far are the established tech giants that have been around for years, so they are directly supporting the biggest players getting bigger
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 333d
I hear what you are saying, but you can't ignore the disruption vs traditional axis of 'brand new shit' vs 'archaic shit that is still the basis of everything for probably a lot of good reasons.'
Thats the y axis.
The x axis is basically full corpo on the right, full foss/anarchist on the left.
So, the vibe coder is a soydev who works for cogdevs, or people somewhere between cogdev and soydev.
Here's how I look at this.
Maybe if you went with... not the corners of the quadrants, but the tips of the axes, you'd get:
top:
bottom:
left:
right:
Further down in this thread, under another comment, I basically tried to do a 'personality test' or maybe 'ttrpg archetype description' style write up of the corners of the quadrants... at least my way of trying to make sense out of what I think whoever made this image is going for.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 6 pts · 333d
One could argue that's heavily to the "disruptive" side, though.
loweffortname@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 35 pts · 333d
Cowards are too afraid to place vi anywhere on these axes...
3x3@lemy.lol · 15 pts · 333d
It’s open source and traditional..
loweffortname@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 333d
So you're say remove emacs and replace it with vi? I agree!
3x3@lemy.lol · 7 pts · 333d
Why not both
brotundspiele@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 332d
Hey, you can't end a 40+ year war just like that. Do you want all those warriors to loose their occupation?
pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 333d
Vi is off the charts.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 3 pts · 332d
You would need entire new compass to place vi, vim, neovim, lazyvim, spacevim, lunarvim and so on on it.
artiman@piefed.social · 2 pts · 332d
those are just neovim configurations it's like saying each hyprland dotfile is a different compositor
hayvan@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 332d
There is Neovim but yeah, not the same thing.
33550336@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 332d
I've noticed that, too.
const_void@lemmy.ml · 34 pts · 333d
“Soydev”? This is fucking stupid.
entwine@programming.dev · 20 pts · 333d
Found the soydev
muhyb@programming.dev · 10 pts · 333d
What does soy mean though?
e8d79@discuss.tchncs.de · 26 pts · 333d
There is that weird conspiracy theory that soybeans contain an estrogen adjacent substance which makes men more feminine. Complete nonsense but it gets especially funny when these people are advocating for cows milk instead of soy milk, because the former actually contains mammalian estrogen.
x00z@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 333d
Soy does contain plant based estrogens but it's in meaningless quantities.
Some pregnancy institutions do tell pregnant ladies to refrain from soy products. But that's because they consider the research to not be complete yet. So it's just a precaution based on lack of research and not on any actual known harm.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 333d
Here is the way I am interpreting the names for the extreme stereotypes of quadrants/corners:
Cogdev:
Soydev:
Hypedev:
Libredev:
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 11 pts · 333d
It's commonly used as a synonym for beta. Like the alpha, beta, omega, sigma male nonsense? Same dumb concept.
Soy is beans and beans rock.
irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 332d
It's 4chan slop. Bascially, they think that people who drink soy milk are weak, despite soy milk having more protein.
bhamlin@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 333d
I. Or I am.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 3 pts · 333d
¿Soy un programadora?
bhamlin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 333d
Talvez...
shirro@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 333d
Agreed. Infantile and basically a slur on people because of their dietary choices. Part of a pattern of language that is basically alt-right bait for young insecure and disaffected men.
Edit: Adding a link to an article I saw on the orange site. The Four Dark Laws of online engagement are a nice little cheat sheet for the patterns you see repeatedly online. Negatively biased language that targets an out group has a virality amongst this audience: https://www.derekthompson.org/p/all-the-sad-young-terminally-online
eager_eagle@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 333d
what are the concentric circles above Linus?
fjellet@feddit.nl · 32 pts · 333d
That’s Zen, a Firefox-based browser https://zen-browser.app/
eager_eagle@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 333d
lol that's why it looked familiar. I use it but my icon has been broken for a while.
3abas@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 332d
The icon is pretty borked on Linux
savvywolf@pawb.social · 24 pts · 333d
Looking at how much of a reach some of the disruptive + proprietary stuff is... Yeah, there isn't a lot of recent innovative proprietary stuff, is there?
Although I would put Chrome under "disruptive". It absolutely was when it released decades ago, and even now it's still changing the browser landscape.
shirro@aussie.zone · 13 pts · 333d
Chrome was disruptive.
Part of the reason for its disruption is that Chromium is open source (BSD licence), built on Webkit that was open source, which was built on khtml from the KDE project which was open source. That is how we got to Microsoft Edge also running on Chromium.
If it wasn't for the monoculture aspect and the actions of some of the companies using it, khtml->Chromium would be a great open source success story.
tempest@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 333d
Eh probably the LLMs should be taking up most of that corner.
squaresinger@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 332d
A lot of the systems are quite stabilized. No need for a new OS, a new browser, a new language.
Even if the old stuff isn't perfectly optimal, having to setup a fully-new ecosystem is so incredibly costly that it's just not worth it.
That's why you see new developments (e.g. Typescript or Kotlin) piggyback on older ecosystems (e.g. JavaScript or Java compatibility).
Typescript could have been better if it was a completely fresh development without being encumbered by the madness that is JavaScript. But without JavaScript compatibility and thus acces to the JS ecosystem, nobody would have switched to TS.
All these systems heavily benefit from network effects, which makes it hard to impossible for completely new systems to emerge.
This is doubly strong for consumer-facing software. Linux only became a viable mainstream option due to Wine/Proton/... allowing users to easily run Windows programs. Without Windows compatibility, Linux would still be at <1% desktop market share.
It's also the same reason why everyone's making chromium-based browsers: Because that way they all work the same.
Disruptive change happens when you get a completely fresh use case. Microsoft completely destroyed the likes of Commodore and IBM when home computers became something that everyone had in their homes.
Smartphones becoming mainstream allowed Google and Apple, who were both completely new to the mobile OS business, to win against established mobile OS companies, because nothing was entrenched in the late 2000s mobile OS landscape.
OpenAI, Anthropic, Midjourney and so on are wiping the floor with established software powerhouses in the AI space.
But after the disruption follows stabilization. A product that has reached market saturation will only be replaced by incremental, compatible improvements.
artiman@piefed.social · 20 pts · 333d
What is the software between Linus and rust? Never seen that icon before
Tja@programming.dev · 32 pts · 333d
Zig, a language for systems programming, alternative to rust.
Prunebutt@slrpnk.net · 13 pts · 333d
Zig
puhpine@programming.dev · 10 pts · 333d
It's Zig
glorkon@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 333d
Zig is actually pretty easy to get into. I got a Raylib game scaffold with scene switching running in a couple of hours from scratch, with no prior knowledge of the Zig language or ecosystem whatsoever.
inbeesee@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 331d
Zoologist, it's a person that studies animals for a living. Hope this helps
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 20 pts · 332d
Uh, Linus Torvalds is a hypedev?
Btw, is this meme old?
danhab99@programming.dev · 17 pts · 333d
I started using git to track my dotfiles maybe one-ish years after I first fully adopted Linux as my daily driver.. I think it's been a little over 5 years and before I converted to nix that git history told a story of immense frustration of never being able to get my desktop and laptop to be identical. For some reason some projects only ran on one of the 2 machines. There was a period in my life when I didn't use my desktop for 2 months because it just didn't work well enough, OCD is really fucking painful. Nix saved my relationship with both of my computers, and my desk, and my spine. I haven't used my laptop and maybe a month and I may have changed my workstation a couple hundred times in this period, I will with absolute confidence say that the next time I decide to use my laptop I can just run git pull and nixos rebuild and my laptop will be just the same as my desktop (minus obligatory build fixes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
Feathercrown@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 332d
NixOS answers that question I always had, "Do I have random residue from programs I uninstalled years ago lying around on my system?", with a resounding "No", and it feels amazing.
drmoose@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 332d
Putting Apple under disruption not tradition lol
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 331d
Author is either a troll or drank the apple marketing koolaid.
0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 332d
C++ is more traditional than C? 🤔
3abas@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 332d
I think they just put them in quadrants with no attention to placement.
garlicandonions@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 332d
What is this shit? I don't recognize half of this garbage. How is terminal + text editor not an option?
MrMcGasion@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 332d
That's just the Emacs logo in the top-left. At least I assume Emacs has a terminal since there's that old "Vim proverb" about Emacs being a "great OS, it just lacks a good editor."
angband@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 332d
Well you could code vi in it.
AmazingAwesomator@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 333d
rust is more proprietary than linus.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 332d
I use C#, GitHub and arch...
(I am replacing GitHub once my homelab server is set up though)
douglasg14b@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 332d
I was about to say C# seems to be in a weird spot here.
It's entirely FOSS. It does of course have corporate daddy providing dev resources for it but it definitely is not anywhere near the location for proprietary as Java.
It should be well and truly on the same side of this graph as Rust.
drath@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 332d
On the other hand, if you try to run Java application on linux, you just use an appropriate OpenJDK runner.
When you see a C# app, you just:
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 4 pts · 332d
I'm also replacing Github but I'm waiting for Forgejo to implement federation
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 332d
Is that something that's happening?
F04118F@feddit.nl · 5 pts · 332d
Yes
https://codeberg.org/forgejo-contrib/federation
solrize@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 333d
Amazing how RMS is now on the traditional end of traditional to disruptive.
neox_@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 332d
Yeah well, it was convenient to dismiss radical free software ideas by telling everyone it's obsolete 🙄 thus calling that "traditional"
vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 331d
This is pretty much nonsense lol
ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social · 2 pts · 331d
It makes sense once you accrue 1000 hours on /g/ (10 years ago, it's a much dumber place now)
jenesaisquoi@feddit.org · 1 pts · 330d
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 333d
TS, JS, Java, and Codium are proprietary?
Hack3900@lemy.lol · 8 pts · 333d
I don't think Codium is on this image
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 333d
Topleft of Soydev square? Or is that VS Code?
Anafabula@discuss.tchncs.de · 7 pts · 333d
That's VSCode
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev · 1 pts · 333d
I think you got that mixed up, the VSCode icon is in the Soydev square.
Egonallanon@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 333d
Is bit keeper even still around anymore?
ieGod@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 333d
Language choice has nothing to do with foss vs proprietary.
bss03@infosec.pub · 15 pts · 333d
That's not quite true. If you can't complete a build without a proprietary dependency, it's not really foss even if all the source code is freely available, because you can't exercise the freedom 1 (or 3). Similarly, if there's not a FOSS RTS, you can't exercise freedom 0.
"The Java Trap" from RMS was about this, IIRC.
3abas@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 332d
.NET CLI and msbuild are open source, and C# is awesome. And VS Code is open source.
JamonBear@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 332d
VS Code binaries are not open source, so M$ can add telemetry, star rating popup and other shit.
3abas@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 332d
Yes, but there are a ton of awesome IDEs built on top of the base Visual Studio Code Open Source project, you don't have to use the Microsoft one.
JamonBear@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 331d
Indeed but saying VS Code is open source is quite misleading.
kunaltyagi@programming.dev · 7 pts · 333d
Apple's preferred languages definitely have a smaller foss footprint than say c or rust or go
CaJoasca_Baloon@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 332d
it's definitely generalized, but I'd say I fit the disruptive open source type, though i respect the trad open source guys a lot.. But, like.. as of currently, I can't even call myself an actual programmer seeing as I write stories instead of code nowadays..
Definitely would like to balance the two someday.
notarobot@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 333d
Emacs, icecat, guix, parabola, c, c++. Stallman. What are the others in that quadrant?
Baleine@jlai.lu · 7 pts · 333d
GNU Savannah and old thinkpads that can run with fully free software.
neox_@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 332d
on the main CPU 🙃*
banshee@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 332d
I think there's a healthy amount of bs in there (Chrome, C# as traditional?), but some of it checks out. I like a mix of old and new but try to stay away from proprietary. Current favorites are probably Emacs, NixOS, and Rust.
TootSweet@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 333d
Freedom is to proprietary as libertarian is to authoritarian. Tradition is to distruption as political right is to political left. Better would be for the x axis to be left-to-right disruption->tradition and the y axis to be bottom-to-top freedom->proprietary. So, rotated 90° counterclockwise and then mirrored left-to-right.
HulkSmashBurgers@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 332d
Love that the Guix logo is included!
entwine@programming.dev · 4 pts · 333d
What's the logo between Guix and C?
MazonnaCara89@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 333d
parabola linux
lesnout27@feddit.org · 3 pts · 332d
Where does golang go?
petersr@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 332d
In the trash where it belongs.
Ducks
PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de · 14 pts · 332d
You know when you see some bait and go "that's bait" but somehow you're still angry? No? Well I do
petersr@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 332d
Apologies for the bait. Saw the shot and took it.
akdas@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 332d
Somehow it goes in both the cogdev and hypedev corners at the same time.
waldfee@feddit.org · 8 pts · 332d
That seems only appropriate for a language that's both typesafe and has
anygrue@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 333d
This whole chart should've been rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 7 pts · 333d
Wouldn't that put Bill Gates on the "freedom" side?
grue@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 333d
No, I mean the whole chart should be rotated, including the labels. I want "freedom" to be across the bottom and "proprietary" to be across the top, so that it matches "libertarian" and "authoritarian" on the political compass.
("Tradition" and "disruption" don't map to "left" and "right" quite as well, but if it were exact it would just be the political compass instead of just analogous to it.)
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 333d
Ah, I get it now.
UFODivebomb@programming.dev · 3 pts · 331d
Where's the drunken conglomeration that is Scala?
Btw. It's my favorite language
jenesaisquoi@feddit.org · 3 pts · 330d
People with the skill level necessary to create such memes don't know what Scala is
jaschen306@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 333d
At work I'm the only dude that uses Windows and Linux. Everyone else uses Macs.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 4 pts · 332d
I'm shocked you have a choice at work.
jaschen306@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 332d
I had a couple of jobs that only allows Macs. It was horrible. The M1 Mac couldn't do 3 monitors(two side by side and main monitor). What kind of "PRO" system doesn't allow 3 monitors?!?!
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 2 pts · 332d
I remember using 3 on Windows 7 in like 2015. That's crazy. And I think I could open the laptop to get 4. This was an IBM Thinkpad with a dock. I wonder if USB C and dongles have made it harder somehow?
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 332d
Using 2x FHD 16:10 monitors and 1x 4K 16:9 with my laptop FHD 16:9.
The monitors are connected with a USB-C docking station over 1x HDMI amd 2x DP.
The laptop does struggle a bit (fan ramping more than usual) but it's capable of doing so
jaschen306@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 332d
On a Mac or PC? Because I think it's only recently you could get 3 monitors.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 332d
Windows 11, HP EliteBook (I think) 12th gen i5
jaschen306@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 332d
Nice dude. I find that a cooling pad helps with the thermal lagging.
tiredofsametab@fedia.io · 1 pts · 332d
We're stuck on Mac at work and I hate it.
jaschen306@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 332d
I had jobs like that. Productivity drops hard.
jenesaisquoi@feddit.org · 2 pts · 330d
TIL I'm a hypedev
lessthanluigi@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 330d
I use Arch btw
jenesaisquoi@feddit.org · 1 pts · 330d
We should reimplement it in Rust
Szyler@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 332d
Who is the guy in the top left?
kamen@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 332d
Richard Stallman
Szyler@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 332d
Thanks. Thought it was Steve wozniak
mcv@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 332d
No man, Woz has a completely different beard.
Karryp_17@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 332d
I have no idea😒
petrichornetrainfall@piefed.social · 2 pts · 332d
What's between code berg and framework?
ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 332d
Neovim
Olgratin_Magmatoe@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 333d
I am offended that scratch isn't on here