The problem isn't "vibe coding" (anyone who has ever managed early career staff will be able to attest that... the bar is REAL fucking low). The problem is a complete lack of testing or any sort of "investment" in caring if production breaks.
A lot of it is general apathy induced by... gestures around. But it very much goes beyond just the obnoxious rise in brain drains over "vibe coding". Personally speaking, I am THIS fucking close to driving over to my company's head of IT's house and burning it down with him in it (For legal purposes, this is a joke) as that entire team continues to think "We'll just wait until people tell us what is broken" is at all fucking acceptable.
But pretty much any SDLC is going to be built around code review. And code review is how you handle developers of different skill and sanity levels. Whether they are old hats who have been in the basement since before you were born, youngins who can't stop talking about Rust, or chatbots.
Unfortunately a lot of people are trying to outsource code review to LLMs as well. Also, LLM generated code is more likely to have subtle errors that a human would be very unlikely to make in otherwise mundane code. Errors that are easy to gloss over if you don't take a magnifying glass to it. My current least favorite thing is LLM generated unit tests that don't actually test what they say they do.
Shit code review is not code review. If you just rubber stamp everything or outsource it to someone who will, you aren't doing code review.
Aside from that:
LLM generated code is more likely to have subtle errors that a human would be very unlikely to make in otherwise mundane code.
Citation requested
My current least favorite thing is LLM generated unit tests that don’t actually test what they say they do.
If I had a nickle for every single time I had to explain to someone that their unit test doesn't do anything or that they literally just copied the output and checked against it (and that they are dealing with floating points so that is actually really stupid)... I'd probably go buy some Five Guys for lunch.
Its like saying that the problem is that you are using robots to assemble cybertrucks rather than people. The problem isn't who is super glueing sharp jagged metal together. The problem is that your product is fundamentally shite and should never have reached production in the first place. And you need to REALLY work through your design flows and so forth.
I keep seeing it over and over again. Anyone that actually has to deal with coworkers using this bullshit that isn't also in the cult is going to recognize it.
If I had a nickle for every singl yada yada yada
Sure, there have always been better and worse developers. LLMs are making developers that used to be better, worse.
Bad developers just do whatever. It doesn't matter if they wrote the code themselves or if a tool wrote it for them. They aren't going to be more or less detail oriented whether it is an LLM, a doxygen plugin, or their own fingers that made the code.
Which is the problem when people make claims like that. It is nonsense and anyone who has ACTUALLY worked with early career staff can tell you... those kids aren't writing much better code than chatgpt and there is a reason so many of them have embraced it.
But it also fundamentally changes the conversation. It stops being "We should heavily limit the use of generative AI in coding because it prevents people from developing the skills they need to evaluate code" and instead "We need generative AI to be better".
It was the exact same thing with "AI can't draw hands". Everyone and their mother insisted on that. Most people never thought about why basically all cartoons are four fingered hands and so forth. So, when the "studio ghibli filter" was made? It took off like hotcakes because "Now AI can can do hands!" and there was no thought towards the actual implications of generative AI.
Nothing outside of the first paragraph here is terribly meaningful, and the first paragraph is just trying to talk past what I said before. I'll reiterate, very clearly.
I have observed several of my coworkers that used to be really good at their jobs, get worse at their jobs (and make me spend more ensuring code quality) since they started using using LLM tools. That's it. That's all I care about. Maybe they'll get better. Maybe they won't. But right now I'd strongly prefer people not use them, because people using them has made my experience worse.
I have seen at least 1 out of every 5 comments from coderabbitai that lead me down a rabbit hole looking to see if the suggestion is correct. It can waste so much time trying to validate their suggestions only to find out it’s complete BS.
... Basically nobody in software development has done QA in about 15 years, aside of basically the last ol timer server admin types, who are now being replaced with ... whatever Microsoft is calling Tay or Cortana now.
There's always a few who try, and then corporate beats that out of them because it slows down 'productivity', you can basically only resist this for more than a year, two tops, if you are literally the only person on the planet who knows how to do what you do.
... which is also why those same old timers tend to ... seemingly intentionally not document anything usefully: job security.
You will never have resources to "test absolutely everything". It is ALWAYS about building out personas and deriving tests from those.
What this tells us is that one of two things happened:
This was not tested at all
The testing harness resets the environment after every check (e.g. "does process close when killed") rather than involving a manual reset (i.e. "close and re-open task manager")
The latter is a lot more common than you would think since it makes it much easier to automate these harnesses rather than having a human at a VM. But... this is what happens when you don't step through the entire workflow.
Well, there may have been a period when MS was trying to improve product quality, and in that time, yes maybe they did have very comprehensive automated testing processes. But before that, up to the time of Windows 7 I guess, their quality was dog shit.
In the early days, MS was an undisputed monopoly though, and not only did they not test thoroughly, they hardly even tried to fix bugs - the userbase had to take care of that too. Earlier versions of Windows had all sorts of workarounds and 3rd party tools to try and get things to work properly.
I suspect that once they'd achieved their objective of improving quality, there just weren't the incentives there any more for middle management to allocate resources to things like comprehensive tests.
For people to test, you need management that is willing to invest in QA. But that incentive disappears for a corporation when there's no free market of competitors who can poach your customers by making a better quality product or service.
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I don’t think I could go back to Windows 10 permanently to do any non-web based work. I couldn’t even touch Windows 11. It’s so disgusting compared to my KDE plasma desktop on OST.
Cachy or Endeavor are a nice step back from Arch while keeping things familiar. For even more stability without sacrificing your ability to fiddle, there is always Fedora.
+1 for Fedora. I've been using the same installation for 3 years. That's multiple dirty upgrades. The only reason I'll be most likely reinstalling is I got a new SSD and it's a nice opportunity to start fresh.
For what it’s worth Windows 10 is/was perfectly usable after setting it up properly. A bit of customization needed but nothing crazy. Honestly I liked the OS and its design, it felt very clean and utility oriented.
I’ve set up a new Windows 11 install from scratch this past month and it has been a real pulling-teeth experience. It’s not completely unfixable (yet) but even the annoyances that are not sinister are perplexing. There’s a new context menu that has a cut down layout and takes a few milliseconds to load - I get the design decision to keep it short, and have a button for more options, but it lags - so I’m out. It’s just a little hidden config to automatically skip to the full (more cluttered but no lag) menu (which you could do by holding shift every single time). There’s a few dozen little annoyances like that. A few are bigger than others, like the need to drive Copilot out to the desert and double tap it in the head unceremoniously. They’ve put it in Paint. They’ve put it in fucking Notepad.
That’s not even getting into how desperately they want every user signing away the rights to their bone marrow to the Microsoft Corporation. The computer I’ve set up is more or less where I want it to be, but I’m wary of things breaking with an update.
I’m not big on quotes but I’ve been coming back to Ed Zitron’s words a lot lately:
I will never forgive these people for what they’ve done to the computer.
I find it funny how the tables turned. Used to be that Linux was the one that needed unintuitive setup and Windows was the one that just worked. I don’t think I’ve used a single Linux image that didn’t just drop me into a desktop environment no questions asked upon boot, and that’s a world away from the awful, awful new Windows experience. Unless Microsoft conspires to make the next decade of Linux hardware drivers absolutely abhorrent, I think this will have to be my last Windows machine. That or the entire executive suite of Microsoft’s OS division has an epiphany about not wanting to spend eternity in hell.
For all the Just Use Linux people: I’ve got more machines running Linux in my house than Windows. I’ll get there, Microsoft is just doing everything they can to push everyone off their OS.
Sorta related, i found a copilot pull request (merged) on an npm project repo and I was so disgusted I wanted to delete the dependency and do my own thing manually, but alas this was at work and my time on this earth is finite (for now)
Agree, but if we are going towards the AI writes all code future that these AI companies want, then code review will become inneffective.
If we stop writing code, we will lose that "edge" that helps us detect bad logic when reading a PR.
The more code we have to review, the more mistakes we will make letting bad code through (I believe this is the case). It's less fatal when the code we review is written by smart humans because it's unlikely they code something as bad as an AI can produce.
Anyways, I think using any AI agent to write bigish blobs of code is a mistake, but if you are gonna do it i hope you have multiple fresh pairs of eyes on each PR. Still will give me the ick seeing an AI PR get merged tho.
How the hell do you fuck up the task manager, an application that hasn't needed to be touched in decades? At best, you stick a new skin over it to match the aesthetic. The core functionality of the task manager should have remained untouched going back to... What, Windows 3.0?
I really don't agree with this comment seeing how useful task manager has gotten over the years. It used to be pretty simple process explorer, but has evolved into almost a full fledged resource monitor. The only thing that feels like missing now is afterburner-like overlay in games.
And fps... Frametimes... Recordable graphs... Power... Voltages... Amps... Task manager is a baby compared to serious monitoring apps. But the main purpose is not monitoring ig, it's fine as it is.
Never really needed that since I built my own rig, do maintenance and trust my build. Never had problems with temps, even during prolonged stresstesting
When I used to be on Windows, I shifted to Process Explorer. It is developed by Microsoft only I guess as part of their Sysinternals suite. I think it retains an older style UI but is significantly more powerful (has/d virus total integration for one).
I was recently pulling my hair out because a recent update caused a bug in the Windows recovery media creator that prevented the Windows RE from recognizing USB input devices. The few weeks between the faulty update and the fix just happened to coincide with me needing to use it.
WTF are they doing messing with something as basic as the Recovery Environment? And further, in a way that breaks its utility entirely?
The version of windows 10 my Lenovo laptop can't see wifi. I don't like factory resetting that machine (actually I can't anymore since I wiped the recovery partition when I moved it to Linux) my framework laptop came with no OS so was immune to bad factory OS version problems
Personal anecdote, but I've had Microsoft apps like Outlook and Teams crash on me on 4 different days this week while at work. Is anyone else getting similar instability issues?
Teams crashes or fails to work for me at least a few times a week and has for months. Outlook glitches out daily. I legit started using the web access instead of actual Outlook because it constantly bugged out.
Both Teams and Outlook are so ridiculously slow for what they do and the hardware they are running on.
Meanwhile in Windows 11:
4 years after release and I still can't click on the clock on my secondary monitor to look at the calendar.
Last issue I had with Windows was that I couldn't update because my EFI partition was too small (the partition is created automatically on install). Why do I never get the funny ones?
I’ve never noticed this. Mostly because I basically never close Task Manager. Because programs hanging is common enough that it’s actually useful to have Task Manager open on a separate screen.
On an unrelated note, I must set myself a reminder for tomorrow to give installing Linux another go…
I have mostly abandoned Win for many years (I only have gaming PC where I still have dual boot)
Has it really gotten that bad? Every time I boot up Win I am shocked how long this clean PC with only Games installed and high end hardware takes to get ready. But at least it does its job.
On Linux (Kubuntu in my case) I haven't had an issue with hanging software in a long time. Even browsers have become completely stable.
Every Windows machine I’ve ever had just gets slower and slower over time. It takes several years, but after 2-3 years it’s taking ages to do basic tasks. I’m just kind of tired of it at this point.
It's incredible how quick they become when converted to Linux (though I always put light weight Linuxes on old machines, and that may have contributed)
From what I saw about this bug, it's not just that it duplicates the window when closed. You had to have typed "X" into it first and then closing it would cause the duplication behavior.
117 Comments
pennomi@lemmy.world · 181 pts · 312d
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip · 99 pts · 312d
That is the reality.
The problem isn't "vibe coding" (anyone who has ever managed early career staff will be able to attest that... the bar is REAL fucking low). The problem is a complete lack of testing or any sort of "investment" in caring if production breaks.
A lot of it is general apathy induced by... gestures around. But it very much goes beyond just the obnoxious rise in brain drains over "vibe coding". Personally speaking, I am THIS fucking close to driving over to my company's head of IT's house and burning it down with him in it (For legal purposes, this is a joke) as that entire team continues to think "We'll just wait until people tell us what is broken" is at all fucking acceptable.
But pretty much any SDLC is going to be built around code review. And code review is how you handle developers of different skill and sanity levels. Whether they are old hats who have been in the basement since before you were born, youngins who can't stop talking about Rust, or chatbots.
Feyd@programming.dev · 33 pts · 311d
Unfortunately a lot of people are trying to outsource code review to LLMs as well. Also, LLM generated code is more likely to have subtle errors that a human would be very unlikely to make in otherwise mundane code. Errors that are easy to gloss over if you don't take a magnifying glass to it. My current least favorite thing is LLM generated unit tests that don't actually test what they say they do.
csm10495@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 309d
Yeah I hate when I read through a unit test and realize it doesn't actually test anything other than itself.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip · -4 pts · 311d
Shit code review is not code review. If you just rubber stamp everything or outsource it to someone who will, you aren't doing code review.
Aside from that:
Citation requested
If I had a nickle for every single time I had to explain to someone that their unit test doesn't do anything or that they literally just copied the output and checked against it (and that they are dealing with floating points so that is actually really stupid)... I'd probably go buy some Five Guys for lunch.
Its like saying that the problem is that you are using robots to assemble cybertrucks rather than people. The problem isn't who is super glueing sharp jagged metal together. The problem is that your product is fundamentally shite and should never have reached production in the first place. And you need to REALLY work through your design flows and so forth.
Feyd@programming.dev · 17 pts · 311d
I keep seeing it over and over again. Anyone that actually has to deal with coworkers using this bullshit that isn't also in the cult is going to recognize it.
Sure, there have always been better and worse developers. LLMs are making developers that used to be better, worse.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 311d
Bad developers just do whatever. It doesn't matter if they wrote the code themselves or if a tool wrote it for them. They aren't going to be more or less detail oriented whether it is an LLM, a doxygen plugin, or their own fingers that made the code.
Which is the problem when people make claims like that. It is nonsense and anyone who has ACTUALLY worked with early career staff can tell you... those kids aren't writing much better code than chatgpt and there is a reason so many of them have embraced it.
But it also fundamentally changes the conversation. It stops being "We should heavily limit the use of generative AI in coding because it prevents people from developing the skills they need to evaluate code" and instead "We need generative AI to be better".
It was the exact same thing with "AI can't draw hands". Everyone and their mother insisted on that. Most people never thought about why basically all cartoons are four fingered hands and so forth. So, when the "studio ghibli filter" was made? It took off like hotcakes because "Now AI can can do hands!" and there was no thought towards the actual implications of generative AI.
Feyd@programming.dev · 11 pts · 311d
Nothing outside of the first paragraph here is terribly meaningful, and the first paragraph is just trying to talk past what I said before. I'll reiterate, very clearly.
I have observed several of my coworkers that used to be really good at their jobs, get worse at their jobs (and make me spend more ensuring code quality) since they started using using LLM tools. That's it. That's all I care about. Maybe they'll get better. Maybe they won't. But right now I'd strongly prefer people not use them, because people using them has made my experience worse.
veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 311d
I know it's not related, curious about this part.
I know it has an aluminum based frame which should inhibit it's use to haul heavy loads, but what else?
mx_smith@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 311d
I have seen at least 1 out of every 5 comments from coderabbitai that lead me down a rabbit hole looking to see if the suggestion is correct. It can waste so much time trying to validate their suggestions only to find out it’s complete BS.
Valmond@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 311d
And automatic test systems. It's not that hard.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 51 pts · 311d
Can't fail QA if there is no QA.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 311d
... Basically nobody in software development has done QA in about 15 years, aside of basically the last ol timer server admin types, who are now being replaced with ... whatever Microsoft is calling Tay or Cortana now.
There's always a few who try, and then corporate beats that out of them because it slows down 'productivity', you can basically only resist this for more than a year, two tops, if you are literally the only person on the planet who knows how to do what you do.
... which is also why those same old timers tend to ... seemingly intentionally not document anything usefully: job security.
count_dongulus@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 311d
You think the QA was done by a person? I'll bet this was Vibe QA'd.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 18 pts · 311d
The public, aka Microsoft QA Team, found the bug. It's a QA success!
bleistift2@sopuli.xyz · -4 pts · 311d
Well, who’d ever think of testing that closing the app works. Some things you have to take for granted or you’ll never test anything meaningful.
IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works · 27 pts · 311d
If you are a company the size of Microsoft, you have more than enough resources to test absolutely everything.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip · 17 pts · 311d
You will never have resources to "test absolutely everything". It is ALWAYS about building out personas and deriving tests from those.
What this tells us is that one of two things happened:
The latter is a lot more common than you would think since it makes it much easier to automate these harnesses rather than having a human at a VM. But... this is what happens when you don't step through the entire workflow.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 311d
Didn't Microsoft fire their dedicated human testing team in about 2014?
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 311d
Probably?
This is the kind of thing that a LOT of companies outsource. Mostly for ill.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 311d
Latest news is that Xbox Games Division had been required to aim for a 30% profit margin for the last several years.
Thats why everything sucks and blew up.
Thats a fucking insane baseline target.
Line for next quarter profit must go up, therefore, cut costs.
This is obvious self destructive in the long run, but that doesn't matter, what matters is C Suite's golden parachutes.
skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 311d
rollin@piefed.social · 1 pts · 311d
Well, there may have been a period when MS was trying to improve product quality, and in that time, yes maybe they did have very comprehensive automated testing processes. But before that, up to the time of Windows 7 I guess, their quality was dog shit.
In the early days, MS was an undisputed monopoly though, and not only did they not test thoroughly, they hardly even tried to fix bugs - the userbase had to take care of that too. Earlier versions of Windows had all sorts of workarounds and 3rd party tools to try and get things to work properly.
I suspect that once they'd achieved their objective of improving quality, there just weren't the incentives there any more for middle management to allocate resources to things like comprehensive tests.
pennomi@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 311d
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 311d
For people to test, you need management that is willing to invest in QA. But that incentive disappears for a corporation when there's no free market of competitors who can poach your customers by making a better quality product or service.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 311d
The person who fiddles with the always on top option in this monstrosity of a compositor maybe?
YoiksAndAway@piefed.zip · 118 pts · 312d
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squirrel@discuss.tchncs.de · 115 pts · 312d
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A_norny_mousse@feddit.org · 83 pts · 312d
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hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 65 pts · 312d
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bleistift2@sopuli.xyz · 46 pts · 311d
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chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 311d
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TwilightKiddy@programming.dev · 14 pts · 311d
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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 311d
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LytiaNP@lemmy.today · 24 pts · 312d
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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 311d
omgboom@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 107 pts · 312d
almost1337@lemmy.zip · 73 pts · 311d
brown567@sh.itjust.works · 55 pts · 311d
RoquetteQueen@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 311d
Nothing fucking works anymore.
MrLLM@ani.social · 8 pts · 310d
hodgepodgin@lemmy.zip · 51 pts · 311d
I don’t think I could go back to Windows 10 permanently to do any non-web based work. I couldn’t even touch Windows 11. It’s so disgusting compared to my KDE plasma desktop on OST.
coolman@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 311d
What is OST? Sorry, I'm just interested because I'm getting tired of Arch but I still KDE plasma 6
hodgepodgin@lemmy.zip · 19 pts · 311d
OpenSUSE Tumbleweed
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 311d
TIRED OF ARCH!?!??!!!
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 311d
Cachy or Endeavor are a nice step back from Arch while keeping things familiar. For even more stability without sacrificing your ability to fiddle, there is always Fedora.
AbsolutelyClawless@piefed.social · 6 pts · 311d
+1 for Fedora. I've been using the same installation for 3 years. That's multiple dirty upgrades. The only reason I'll be most likely reinstalling is I got a new SSD and it's a nice opportunity to start fresh.
bitchkat@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 311d
I just finished my 42nd Fedora upgrade. I'm not counting multiple machines, just the number of releases where I've done an upgrade.
ggtdbz@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 311d
For what it’s worth Windows 10 is/was perfectly usable after setting it up properly. A bit of customization needed but nothing crazy. Honestly I liked the OS and its design, it felt very clean and utility oriented.
I’ve set up a new Windows 11 install from scratch this past month and it has been a real pulling-teeth experience. It’s not completely unfixable (yet) but even the annoyances that are not sinister are perplexing. There’s a new context menu that has a cut down layout and takes a few milliseconds to load - I get the design decision to keep it short, and have a button for more options, but it lags - so I’m out. It’s just a little hidden config to automatically skip to the full (more cluttered but no lag) menu (which you could do by holding shift every single time). There’s a few dozen little annoyances like that. A few are bigger than others, like the need to drive Copilot out to the desert and double tap it in the head unceremoniously. They’ve put it in Paint. They’ve put it in fucking Notepad.
That’s not even getting into how desperately they want every user signing away the rights to their bone marrow to the Microsoft Corporation. The computer I’ve set up is more or less where I want it to be, but I’m wary of things breaking with an update.
I’m not big on quotes but I’ve been coming back to Ed Zitron’s words a lot lately:
I find it funny how the tables turned. Used to be that Linux was the one that needed unintuitive setup and Windows was the one that just worked. I don’t think I’ve used a single Linux image that didn’t just drop me into a desktop environment no questions asked upon boot, and that’s a world away from the awful, awful new Windows experience. Unless Microsoft conspires to make the next decade of Linux hardware drivers absolutely abhorrent, I think this will have to be my last Windows machine. That or the entire executive suite of Microsoft’s OS division has an epiphany about not wanting to spend eternity in hell.
For all the Just Use Linux people: I’ve got more machines running Linux in my house than Windows. I’ll get there, Microsoft is just doing everything they can to push everyone off their OS.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 311d
KDE apps work on windows generally so that's nice.
I am more scared of powershell, it has OOP.
hodgepodgin@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 311d
Same lol, but some people swear by it
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 310d
KDE Plasma on Ubuntu is a dream!!!
trulyrandomguy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 310d
Try Kubuntu.
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 309d
Is that not Kubuntu?
KDE Plasma + Ubuntu = Kubuntu?
trulyrandomguy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 309d
Yes
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 41 pts · 311d
Sorta related, i found a copilot pull request (merged) on an npm project repo and I was so disgusted I wanted to delete the dependency and do my own thing manually, but alas this was at work and my time on this earth is finite (for now)
(I just wanted to share this)
Magnum@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 21 pts · 311d
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 311d
Oh interesting, I thought they were all phishing attacks.. goes to show the risk I guess.
Valorie12@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 311d
Tbf this is why PRs and code reviews exist.
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 311d
Agree, but if we are going towards the AI writes all code future that these AI companies want, then code review will become inneffective.
If we stop writing code, we will lose that "edge" that helps us detect bad logic when reading a PR.
The more code we have to review, the more mistakes we will make letting bad code through (I believe this is the case). It's less fatal when the code we review is written by smart humans because it's unlikely they code something as bad as an AI can produce.
Anyways, I think using any AI agent to write bigish blobs of code is a mistake, but if you are gonna do it i hope you have multiple fresh pairs of eyes on each PR. Still will give me the ick seeing an AI PR get merged tho.
Valorie12@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 310d
Fair, I can agree with that.
Magnum@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 311d
Valorie12@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 310d
That shouldn't count IMO
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 311d
Let me know when you get that immortality hack working!
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 311d
You are the first I will call :)
RedFrank24@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 311d
How the hell do you fuck up the task manager, an application that hasn't needed to be touched in decades? At best, you stick a new skin over it to match the aesthetic. The core functionality of the task manager should have remained untouched going back to... What, Windows 3.0?
REDACTED@infosec.pub · 23 pts · 311d
I really don't agree with this comment seeing how useful task manager has gotten over the years. It used to be pretty simple process explorer, but has evolved into almost a full fledged resource monitor. The only thing that feels like missing now is afterburner-like overlay in games.
kadu@scribe.disroot.org · 5 pts · 311d
There are a thousand applications that provide such an overlay, one is already built into Windows, do you really need yet another?
positiveWHAT@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 311d
And temperature?
87Six@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 310d
And fps... Frametimes... Recordable graphs... Power... Voltages... Amps... Task manager is a baby compared to serious monitoring apps. But the main purpose is not monitoring ig, it's fine as it is.
Surp@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 310d
It has temps for GPU I know that
REDACTED@infosec.pub · -1 pts · 310d
Never really needed that since I built my own rig, do maintenance and trust my build. Never had problems with temps, even during prolonged stresstesting
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 310d
Okay, but literally all of that is reason to need temperature monitoring?
REDACTED@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 310d
Only during the finish phase to make sure your system stays optimal during full load. No need to do that during actual use afterwards.
Think of it like servicing the car vs using the car
kirk781@discuss.tchncs.de · 19 pts · 311d
When I used to be on Windows, I shifted to Process Explorer. It is developed by Microsoft only I guess as part of their Sysinternals suite. I think it retains an older style UI but is significantly more powerful (has/d virus total integration for one).
FrostyPolicy@suppo.fi · 1 pts · 310d
Correction: Sysinternals Process Explorer was developed by Sysinternals long before MS bought them.
expr@programming.dev · 7 pts · 311d
Because they vibe code the shit out of everything now. Insane shit is bound to happen.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 312d
All week I've been sending these to my coworker, currently hip deep in AI propaganda, at the Microsoft Power Platform conference in Vegas.
dmention7@midwest.social · 31 pts · 311d
I was recently pulling my hair out because a recent update caused a bug in the Windows recovery media creator that prevented the Windows RE from recognizing USB input devices. The few weeks between the faulty update and the fix just happened to coincide with me needing to use it.
WTF are they doing messing with something as basic as the Recovery Environment? And further, in a way that breaks its utility entirely?
ripcord@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 311d
And no regression tests that caught it
DoctorPress@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 311d
MashedTech@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 311d
They vibed their way out of the tests
Meowie_Gamer@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 311d
they ask copilot if the code works
MashedTech@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 311d
Will windows run ok? Yes? Good.
skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de · 11 pts · 311d
Frenchgeek@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 311d
Marketing discovered AI can code (terribly).
psud@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 307d
The version of windows 10 my Lenovo laptop can't see wifi. I don't like factory resetting that machine (actually I can't anymore since I wiped the recovery partition when I moved it to Linux) my framework laptop came with no OS so was immune to bad factory OS version problems
palordrolap@fedia.io · 27 pts · 312d
...hail Hydra?
Sunshine@lemmy.ca · 26 pts · 312d
They’re ruining LinkedIn and GitHub as well.
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 38 pts · 311d
I'm not sure it was possible to ruin something like LinkedIn ..
onlinepersona@programming.dev · 9 pts · 311d
No way... Are you serious?
ezterry@lemmy.zip · 24 pts · 311d
That's not vibe coding.. Its vibe testing..
Baggie@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 311d
Both? Both. Both is good.
ezterry@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 311d
Well no human looked at it while coding, no human looked at it while testing, so should be good as long as no user is a human looking at it..
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 310d
what does vibe coding mean?
SuperSpruce@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 310d
Using AI to generate code without fully understanding what the code is doing.
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 310d
what does that have to do with vibing. thats just AI-Generated code. you might as well use Base 44
SuperSpruce@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 310d
Because you're coding "based on vibes," not logical thought.
Jinarched@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 311d
Stares in disbelief
Hugs htop
DarkCloud@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 312d
Oh no, Windows 10 won't get updates from their vibe coding era!
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 311d
Personal anecdote, but I've had Microsoft apps like Outlook and Teams crash on me on 4 different days this week while at work. Is anyone else getting similar instability issues?
hornywarthogfart@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 311d
Teams crashes or fails to work for me at least a few times a week and has for months. Outlook glitches out daily. I legit started using the web access instead of actual Outlook because it constantly bugged out.
Both Teams and Outlook are so ridiculously slow for what they do and the hardware they are running on.
Meanwhile in Windows 11: 4 years after release and I still can't click on the clock on my secondary monitor to look at the calendar.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 311d
my windows 10 stability has been horrendous the past month or so
constant file explorer and office program crashes, random reboots and blue screens, lock ups. no consistent pattern to it that I can tell.
also getting weird glitches in teams that I've never seen before that require a force close and restart to make it usable again
expr@programming.dev · 4 pts · 311d
That's what happens when you start using LLMs for all of your software development. Garbage code all day long.
psud@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 307d
I haven't had teams crash, just behaving badly, not marking chats read, not moving updated chats to the top.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 311d
Last issue I had with Windows was that I couldn't update because my EFI partition was too small (the partition is created automatically on install). Why do I never get the funny ones?
Sunshine@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 312d
!demicrosoft@programming.dev
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 310d
why does the guy in the meme always looked stoned.
Aneb@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 310d
Yes
SaraTonin@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 310d
I’ve never noticed this. Mostly because I basically never close Task Manager. Because programs hanging is common enough that it’s actually useful to have Task Manager open on a separate screen.
On an unrelated note, I must set myself a reminder for tomorrow to give installing Linux another go…
macros@feddit.org · 4 pts · 310d
I have mostly abandoned Win for many years (I only have gaming PC where I still have dual boot) Has it really gotten that bad? Every time I boot up Win I am shocked how long this clean PC with only Games installed and high end hardware takes to get ready. But at least it does its job.
On Linux (Kubuntu in my case) I haven't had an issue with hanging software in a long time. Even browsers have become completely stable.
SaraTonin@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 308d
Every Windows machine I’ve ever had just gets slower and slower over time. It takes several years, but after 2-3 years it’s taking ages to do basic tasks. I’m just kind of tired of it at this point.
psud@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 307d
It's incredible how quick they become when converted to Linux (though I always put light weight Linuxes on old machines, and that may have contributed)
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 3 pts · 310d
From what I saw about this bug, it's not just that it duplicates the window when closed. You had to have typed "X" into it first and then closing it would cause the duplication behavior.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 1 pts · 309d
Well that is unacceptable behavior
finitebanjo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 311d
I didn't even think about if this is negatively impacting security updates. Might have to ditch 10 before the LTSC support ends in 2027.
Konstant@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 307d
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 300d
You can't add AI chatbot to task manager without breaking a few eggs.
Wilco@lemmy.zip · -2 pts · 310d
Its being done on purpose. Planned obsolescence should be made illegal.
jve@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 310d
What does this have to do with planned obsolescence?
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 310d
what would they gain by doing this.
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 310d
Forcing a Windows upgrade.
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 310d
you mean a feature update?
psud@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 307d
To another version full of errors due to the same faults? This is the sort of thing that has people looking for alternatives