Microsoft has gone all-in on AI to the detriment of basically every other aspect of their business. They are in deep deep shit when the bubble finally pops.
15% of the total United States GDP is a single company. I struggle to comprehend the scale of that, but one thing is for certain; it's going to bite us in the ass eventually.
15% of the total United States GDP is a single company
no, it is not. you struggle to comprehend it because it is not true.
it is comparing different things. one is a valuation, the other is the value of goods and services over a year.
the comparision would be with yearly revenue of a company
The stat that's going around at the moment is that 30% if the GDP is transactions between the "Magnificent 7". That one is fair because it's economic activity.
The underlying economy is in recession with the AI frosting on top pushing it to break even levels.
They haven't. Part of the reason the bubble is so bad is that NVIDIA has been giving credit incentives to openai and other llm companies. Essentially giving them money so they use it to buy NVIDIA chips, so they can claim higher sales numbers. But there's no revenue. The AI bubble is 4 or 5 companies shuffling money to each other to inflate numbers so investors inject more money.
The only ones making bank are CEOs when they take their bonuses and cash outs. The companies themselves are bleeding. OpenAI needs something like $700 billion dollars more to survive until 2030. LLMs simply don't make any money. Any savings from ai use has been from layoffs. It will all eventually crash out when it is obvious that AI use ultimately hurts revenue, no matter how much it saves in production.
It's not one company, but the top 5 companies make up 40% of South Korea's economy, with the top 30 76.9% of their GDP. It's scary to imagine the power they wield over the peoples lives.
Power over their lives? Nonsense, the people of Samsungouth Korea are completely free to use iPhones instead of Samsung phones if they want! They can also leave their Samsung apartments to work at the Samsung office, built by the Samsung construction company using Samsung heavy machinery, any time they want! If they were to get injured on the way, they'll get treated at Samsung Medical Center and not to worry, of course their Samsung insurance will cover it.
I’m not agreeing with it but if it were socialism we would at least have public ownership of the bailed out company. Any bailout would just be corporate welfare with little return
The bailout should transfer ownership to the public. Employees and (sane) products/services can stay, the idiots who tanked the company can shuffle off.
Socialism would do what the majority of people wanted it to do, it's not a benevolent entity the marches through society and fixes everything. It's merely a tool for society to use to more directly appease the masses needs.
Microsoft's business model has always been getting businesses who are even stupider than them to give them tons of money. Nothing is ever going to change that calculus.
In the end, we opted for a simple strategy, sidestepping GitHub’s aggressive vendor lock-in: leave the existing issues open and unmigrated, but start counting issues at 30000 on Codeberg so that all issue numbers remain unambiguous. Let us please consider the GitHub issues that remain open as metaphorically “copy-on-write”.
Do you know anything about the referenced vendor lock-in?
Basically all the stuff that is build by GitHub and not part of git. Like the pull request discussion boards that is not stored in the git repository. They can’t transfer that out of GitHub to another git host.
SWF vector animations are incredibly resilient, actually. I can still pull my saved SWF memes, and run them through Ruffle at modern resolution, or Swivel to get 60 fps 4K lossless MP4 versions, or bigger. Kind of cool.
And you can still uncompile them. I even discovered some credits and commentaries written in a hidden area of "Zero Wing Rhapsody" (speaking of Aybabtu) put here by the creator. Felt like geeky archeology.
I wish Microsoft keeps up with its AI obsession and push as much as possible. At some point they’ll realize the reputation damage, but the longer it will take the better. Just stop the negative publicity
The publicity will have little impact; only the AI bubble popping will make them change course. But the damage is already done - they've pivoted their company to AI, forced it into all there products and force their employees to use it. Once the bubble pops that's going to take time to undo and fix.
AI of course will still be a thing, but at the moment they're wasting billions on it as everyone wants to be to AI as Google is to search.
Yeah but what does the corporate world do when Microsoft implodes and releases "Windows 12 agentic AI" the operating system, co developed between AI and athletic employees?
I wouldn’t be so sure they will double down on it forever. I remember too many stupid MS actions like early 2010's convergence and metro UI because touchscreens and shit, where is it now?
IDK, the amount of abuse people have withstood only to keep using MS platforms is astounding. Some people would rather use trash than learn a new platform.
IIRC, the difference here is that Zig's plan had always been to make their own compiler, but had to use LLVM to get started and, more cynically, to try and get some LLVM contributors interested in the project so they could essentially poach them.
I am pretty sure I have seen a video interview of Andrew Kelley transparently saying that ages ago but I'll try and find it to link it here.
Tbh zig is as chill as an iceberg compared to rust! I really appreciate the mindset of "c with rough edges removed" that zig promotes. Already using it in our companies stm32 projects
Oh I did not mean to appear combative or being a contrarian. I don't even care about Zig or LLVM to be honest. I just thought that that clarification was sort of necessary seeing as the GitHub thing is a reaction to MS bullshit, whereas the LLVM thing at least seemed to me like it wasn't (initially) from some drama or a secret or anything.
Still, this is assuming I'm not just hallucinating what I am claiming.
The Zig core team is pretty chill and pretty united around strong engineering ethos. And tbf their own compiler is pretty performant and produces similar level quality code. The argument that compiler dev is hard falls fairly flat when they are succeeding in developing their own compiler.
I think that comes from Andrew Kelley having strong opinions, sometimes with harsh language added. It's like the internet is over-correcting for the much stronger and harsher early internet days, so he's admonished for being "unprofessional". I don't care for this sanded-down squeaky-clean vision of the internet that is being pushed for, particularly by the corporate crowd.
I feel like I'm in good company, I moved my stuff to my own forgejo instance about two month ago because finally I had some time to set one up. I wanted to do it for years because it was embarrysing to host open source code on a closed source platform ran by Microsoft. But my main kick in the but to really just do it was their CEO told his workers to embrace AI or get out: https://www.businessinsider.com/github-ceo-developers-embrace-ai-or-get-out-2025-8 I knew this is not the place to be anymore.
I love that Codeberg exists, but there's one thing I kinda dislike.
I'd like to use the same forge for my private projects (hey, a couple of them may make money one day! I gotta eat too) as I do for open source stuff, but Codeberg is explicitly open source only.
It's a minor thing, really. Which I could get past by using another Forgejo instance, like Codefloe. But these smaller instances, how long will they be around?
I suppose just running my own git server, with or without a forge attached to it, for private projects, is the only real solution. But then I have even more things to self-host lol
I see this as a feature not bug, and tbh kinda resent those who hoard information and try to extract wealth from it. Extremely rude to the giants whose shoulders your work is built on. I'm the person who's going to crack and redistribute your shit as soon as you publish it, nice to meet you :)
I’m the person who’s going to crack and redistribute your shit as soon as you publish it, nice to meet you :)
Out of curiosity, how do you crack and redistribute backend code as soon as a service is published?
Client-side code is usually Javascript for everything made in the last 10 years anyway, it doesn't need a lot of cracking lol, it's usually just minimized.
Anyway, say I'm building something that has taken me years of working in a specific industry to even be able to understand the requirements, that's only useful for companies (NOT private individuals, though some companies may only have 1-2 employees, but many will have thousands). There's literally no way it would benefit a private individual because for the 10% of it that overlaps with things private individuals also do, there's already great open source solutions. What exactly is the problem with charging money for it, given that it's ONLY going to be used by for-profit companies who are themselves charging money for their services?
Not really a project that would benefit normal people. You and I would have no use for it.
That was somewhat facetious and self-aggrandizing, "cracking" something isn't always possible or necessary. If your service was unique/useful enough, I would contribute to reverse engineering enough of that backend to replicate its functionality. More likely I'd just refuse to use it and support open alternatives
Unsolicited advice though, giving stuff away generates a huge amount of goodwill that can be way more useful and rewarding than revenue. Contributors instead of employees, love instead of money, place and purpose instead of points in your bank account. I'm not wealthy by any means, but I'm comfortable enough and haven't had to buy a laptop since high school
Sure. But thing is, there's software out there for which FOSS doesn't even make much sense.
I'm talking things that are so niche, the total amount of potential users (not customers - that's a much smaller number) is in the hundreds of thousands, not even millions - most of whom have no say in what software they use, nor does it affect their pay checks.
If I was building, say, accounting software that every company can use, that'd be different, because while still business focused, there'd be a lot more grass roots interest in it. But I'm talking about software where you have to sell it to a bunch of execs, along with support contracts and uptime guarantees, because their entire business is dependent on it functioning properly. I'm also talking about software for one niche of one industry in one country.
The project isn't useful enough to you, an engineer, to reverse engineer the backend. Nor are there any open alternatives that work. It requires keeping up with regulations, including some that change every year. It's not that the software itself is super complex magic, it's that it stops being useful if not well-maintained.
What I have considered, though, is making parts of it open source, and keeping only the "secret sauce" proprietary. The open source parts would be stuff that could be used to build similar software for other niches of the same target industry, whereas the super specific niche stuff and all the regulation compliance stuff (much of which is just for that one niche anyway - other niches have different regulations) would be proprietary. Essentially building a set of FOSS libraries, and a niche proprietary application that uses them to service a specific market. Again, good reason for using a forge where you can have both public and private projects - but of course I could just use CodeBerg for the open source and host the rest of it privately.
I'm only building this in my spare time and fairly slowly because I have to do work that gets me paid though. I don't know if I'll ever have an MVP I could show investors or clients.
What I have considered, though, is making parts of it open source, and keeping only the "secret sauce" proprietary. The open source parts would be stuff that could be used to build similar software for other niches of the same target industry, whereas the super specific niche stuff and all the regulation compliance stuff (much of which is just for that one niche anyway - other niches have different regulations) would be proprietary.
This seems perfectly reasonable and I wish you the best of luck. Just don't expect anyone to provide the infrastructure for your proprietary secret sauce for free!
Well, github would provide it for free. Their business model is that just hosting shit is free, but costing them actual server resources means you gotta pay 'em. And that's a sensible business model IMO, but unfortunately they're also owned by Microsoft, which I didn't even like 2 decades ago, let alone now that they're pushing AI.
Guess what I'm hoping is for Github alternatives, potentially based on Forgejo, to adopt a similar business model (free storage, paid runners beyond a very limited free tier essentially), without the whole using everyone's code for AI training part.
I also have no problem with a small recurring donation. But the ironic part here is that I wouldn't want to use a forge that's so small that it NEEDS the donations. I don't want it to disappear after a year.
Sounded to me like you were firing off at someone for having a private personal project by claiming that you would personally intervene to prevent them making any money from their code, then later you told them that they were being self aggrandizing. That's how it comes across.
You doubled down on your threat with detail, which doesn't give readers the context to be able to deduce that you meant to be in the slightest bit self aware or apologetic, so without re-quoting yourself, it came across as hypocritical.
Maybe "sorry, that was somewhat facetious and self-aggrandizing of me" and then not doubling down might have come across better. That's what I think, anyway.
Nope nope nope nope nope. Why would I trust a browser written by criminals for criminals or by the FBI/CIA for criminals with my browsing? Nope nope nope.
I am a wanna-be coding data analyst who has decided to start directly in Codeberg, more because of anti-US than anti-AI sentiment.
I have 2 questions for everyone more experienced than me and in general more knowledgeable of the market dynamics:
How far is Forgejo/Codeberg from feature parity with Github?
I don't see any public SaaS/tools connecting to Codeberg as they are with Github. Is this by design or is it due to lack of reception? And, in your opinion, what would be a kind of service/connector that would really change things if made available for Codeberg?
I highly doubt there will ever be parity. There will also be some differences where there can be improvements made over GitHub. Right now you only hear about individuals moving over or open source software. This is mainly because they don't need the enterprise features that GitHub has. I am not sure if you self hosted forgejo if you would get those as well. It's meant to be free. This is the biggest thing that would be missing. For individuals, I don't think you'll notice many differences.
For your second question. It doesn't matter. What matters is git. There are 2 main ways to access this. SSH and http. All you really need is git. There are other tools out there like gitlab. Gitlab is pretty decent too, but the workflow is a bit different. You can even self host with gitlab too. You may not see many direct integrations to gitlab either, but people have been working with it for years now. There is also bitbucket. I think forgejo has a better chance at succeeding though if it continues to do what it's doing. Just tailor to the free and open source community. Really the only thing people need to do is create an account and set up some ssh keys. Beyond creating an account, there is no difference in how you clone a repo from GitHub and codeberg. Just copy the URL and do git clone.
TL;DR GitHub and codeberg have different missions. It will be a similar experience and features for individuals or open source projects are close to the same on both platforms. You probably won't notice much of a difference.
Im eyeing Zig for a long time also as the core developers behind it seem to be really cool and drama free. Which, i know, is no argument for an programming language but cool non the less. Just hope the language itself is also cool to work with.
I wish Microsoft keeps up with its AI obsession and push as much as possible. At some point they’ll realize the reputation damage, but the longer it will take the better. Just stop the negative publicity
Zig is just mid anyway as a programming language, partly because its just a new masturbatory Lang for C people and partly because of Andrew's poor, shepherding of the project.
I don't think Andrew is notable enough to bother having a full article about the things he does.
141 Comments
TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.ca · 327 pts · 262d
Microsoft has gone all-in on AI to the detriment of basically every other aspect of their business. They are in deep deep shit when the bubble finally pops.
OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.world · 121 pts · 262d
And I am so ready for the bubble to burst.
15% of the total United States GDP is a single company. I struggle to comprehend the scale of that, but one thing is for certain; it's going to bite us in the ass eventually.
kinsnik@lemmy.world · 137 pts · 262d
no, it is not. you struggle to comprehend it because it is not true.
it is comparing different things. one is a valuation, the other is the value of goods and services over a year. the comparision would be with yearly revenue of a company
wewbull@feddit.uk · 30 pts · 262d
The stat that's going around at the moment is that 30% if the GDP is transactions between the "Magnificent 7". That one is fair because it's economic activity.
The underlying economy is in recession with the AI frosting on top pushing it to break even levels.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 261d
That one is even more ridiculously untrue.
Those stocks make up 30% of S&P 500, by weight.
Not GDP.
OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 262d
Thanks for the clarification.
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 262d
Stock valuation of a company is not calculated int the GDP. Only domestic revenue is. There is no company that makes trillions in revenue.
OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 262d
True, but Nvidia's market cap is still equal to 15 percent of 30.486 trillion. What's worse is that it's ALL built on speculation.
This house of cards WILL fall.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 15 pts · 262d
Nvidia is less speculation that the other companies mixed up in this. They at least sell physical goods which they've been shipping.
Microsoft, Google, X, Meta - Oh boy!
dustyData@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 262d
They haven't. Part of the reason the bubble is so bad is that NVIDIA has been giving credit incentives to openai and other llm companies. Essentially giving them money so they use it to buy NVIDIA chips, so they can claim higher sales numbers. But there's no revenue. The AI bubble is 4 or 5 companies shuffling money to each other to inflate numbers so investors inject more money.
The only ones making bank are CEOs when they take their bonuses and cash outs. The companies themselves are bleeding. OpenAI needs something like $700 billion dollars more to survive until 2030. LLMs simply don't make any money. Any savings from ai use has been from layoffs. It will all eventually crash out when it is obvious that AI use ultimately hurts revenue, no matter how much it saves in production.
Cyberflunk@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 262d
OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 262d
Absurd, isn't it?
Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 262d
It's not one company, but the top 5 companies make up 40% of South Korea's economy, with the top 30 76.9% of their GDP. It's scary to imagine the power they wield over the peoples lives.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 262d
Power over their lives? Nonsense, the people of S
amsungouth Korea are completely free to use iPhones instead of Samsung phones if they want! They can also leave their Samsung apartments to work at the Samsung office, built by the Samsung construction company using Samsung heavy machinery, any time they want! If they were to get injured on the way, they'll get treated at Samsung Medical Center and not to worry, of course their Samsung insurance will cover it.PrinceOfSloth@lemmy.zip · 82 pts · 262d
dont worry govt bailouts with public money will come in. Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.
rhubarb@lemmy.world · -18 pts · 262d
It’s not socialism, it’s welfare.
_stranger_@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 262d
only if you consider companies as people.
rhubarb@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 262d
I’m not agreeing with it but if it were socialism we would at least have public ownership of the bailed out company. Any bailout would just be corporate welfare with little return
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 3 pts · 262d
The bailout should transfer ownership to the public. Employees and (sane) products/services can stay, the idiots who tanked the company can shuffle off.
Zorque@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 262d
That's the same with socialism, though.
_stranger_@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 262d
Socialism would do what's best for society.
Zorque@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 261d
Socialism would do what the majority of people wanted it to do, it's not a benevolent entity the marches through society and fixes everything. It's merely a tool for society to use to more directly appease the masses needs.
pastermil@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 262d
Welfare? For billion dollar companies? That's rich.
rhubarb@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 262d
There’s a ton of precedent. Welfare for the rich is justified all the time while those who truly need it are less and less
jali67@lemmy.zip · 25 pts · 262d
Completely gave up on the console wars thing too for AI. Such ridiculous leadership by Sadya
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 262d
Azure might keep them afloat but everything else will likely crumble and they'll have to downsize to mostly just being a cloud provider.
Dojan@pawb.social · 7 pts · 262d
Gods I wish for this.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 262d
Don't worry, they have like 250 ERPs too. And they're way more expensive than, say, Odoo, though I guess not as expensive as SAP.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 262d
Sorta like AWS and Amazon (but that Microsoft may crumble?)
Rooty@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 262d
Fingers crossed 🤞
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 261d
Microsoft's business model has always been getting businesses who are even stupider than them to give them tons of money. Nothing is ever going to change that calculus.
clot27@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 261d
like any other tech giant
treadful@lemmy.zip · 138 pts · 262d
The original blog post is rather frank and to the point. Wish the engineering leadership I worked with communicated this well.
brbposting@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 262d
Do you know anything about the referenced vendor lock-in?
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 262d
Basically all the stuff that is build by GitHub and not part of git. Like the pull request discussion boards that is not stored in the git repository. They can’t transfer that out of GitHub to another git host.
brbposting@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 262d
Aha, shrewd…
Thank you
PlexSheep@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 261d
Im pretty sure that is possible on forgejo if given a specific github token. Or is it a scale problem?
JadedBlueEyes@programming.dev · 0 pts · 255d
You get rate limited to hell
treadful@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 262d
It's just that all your shit and users are there, like issue tracking in this case.
Deestan@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 262d
The fucking lunacy of the AI bros he lists as examples...
edgemaster72@lemmy.world · 107 pts · 262d
GitHub, more like QuitHub, amirite?
edgemaster72@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 262d
More like, GetOuttaThereHub, huh? huH?
pastermil@sh.itjust.works · 30 pts · 262d
More like: GitouttaHere
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 262d
More like GitLos
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works · 77 pts · 262d
Codeberg doesn't need billions of users... Just the right ones.
echodot@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 260d
I don't think github has billions of users.
Klear@quokk.au · 70 pts · 262d
fargeol@lemmy.world · 53 pts · 262d
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/286/
Goun@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 261d
Damn, ".swf"
ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com · 7 pts · 261d
SWF vector animations are incredibly resilient, actually. I can still pull my saved SWF memes, and run them through Ruffle at modern resolution, or Swivel to get 60 fps 4K lossless MP4 versions, or bigger. Kind of cool.
fargeol@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 261d
And you can still uncompile them. I even discovered some credits and commentaries written in a hidden area of "Zero Wing Rhapsody" (speaking of Aybabtu) put here by the creator. Felt like geeky archeology.
Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 28 pts · 262d
For great justice
hayvan@feddit.nl · 21 pts · 262d
What you say!
Blaster_M@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 262d
Take off every Zig!
wewbull@feddit.uk · 20 pts · 262d
All your codebase belong to us!
Jinarched@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 261d
I can hear the song so clearly by just watching this picture.
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 261d
If you're into emulation, it's a legitimately good sidescrolling shmup, and if I remember right, the music was great as well.
It's just that absymal translation that launched it into meme status.
azvasKvklenko@sh.itjust.works · 57 pts · 261d
I wish Microsoft keeps up with its AI obsession and push as much as possible. At some point they’ll realize the reputation damage, but the longer it will take the better. Just stop the negative publicity
Zink@programming.dev · 8 pts · 261d
Alright fine, I can tolerate the little ✨AI ✨ sparkles in my M365 webpages a while longer if it means more kaboom at the end.
BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 261d
The publicity will have little impact; only the AI bubble popping will make them change course. But the damage is already done - they've pivoted their company to AI, forced it into all there products and force their employees to use it. Once the bubble pops that's going to take time to undo and fix.
AI of course will still be a thing, but at the moment they're wasting billions on it as everyone wants to be to AI as Google is to search.
echodot@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 260d
Yeah but what does the corporate world do when Microsoft implodes and releases "Windows 12 agentic AI" the operating system, co developed between AI and athletic employees?
azvasKvklenko@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 260d
I wouldn’t be so sure they will double down on it forever. I remember too many stupid MS actions like early 2010's convergence and metro UI because touchscreens and shit, where is it now?
renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.net · 2 pts · 260d
IDK, the amount of abuse people have withstood only to keep using MS platforms is astounding. Some people would rather use trash than learn a new platform.
wuffah@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 262d
Move ZIG for great justice!
projectsquared@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 261d
Greetings, fellow internet pioneer! Don’t forget to take us up the bomb!
frongt@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 261d
*set up us
projectsquared@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 260d
Heh. Oops.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 13 pts · 261d
Make your time
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works · 44 pts · 261d
...take off every zig
fibojoly@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 261d
Somebody set us up the bomb!
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 261d
Make your time.
Nomecks@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 261d
We know what you doing
renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.net · 6 pts · 260d
What you say??!!
demonsword@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 258d
For Great Justice!
Sunshine@lemmy.ca · 43 pts · 262d
Keep joining Codeberg!
mintiefresh@piefed.social · 3 pts · 260d
Yeah, I think it's time I migrate over there too. Seems like the water is fine over there.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 261d
…The same Zig that ditched LLVM, to make their own compiler from scratch?
This is good. But also, this is sort of in character for Zig.
TriangleSpecialist@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 260d
IIRC, the difference here is that Zig's plan had always been to make their own compiler, but had to use LLVM to get started and, more cynically, to try and get some LLVM contributors interested in the project so they could essentially poach them.
I am pretty sure I have seen a video interview of Andrew Kelley transparently saying that ages ago but I'll try and find it to link it here.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
That’s interesting.
I dunno if that's any better. Compiler development is hard, and expensive.
I dunno what issue they have with LLVM, but it would have to be massive to justify building around it and then switching away to re-invent it.
davidagain@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 260d
LLVM is
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L
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W
echodot@feddit.uk · -2 pts · 260d
I've never even heard of Zig before today and it's right out of the gate with drama, cat fights, and public spats. Got to love the programming world.
biggeoff@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 260d
Tbh zig is as chill as an iceberg compared to rust! I really appreciate the mindset of "c with rough edges removed" that zig promotes. Already using it in our companies stm32 projects
TriangleSpecialist@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 260d
Oh I did not mean to appear combative or being a contrarian. I don't even care about Zig or LLVM to be honest. I just thought that that clarification was sort of necessary seeing as the GitHub thing is a reaction to MS bullshit, whereas the LLVM thing at least seemed to me like it wasn't (initially) from some drama or a secret or anything.
Still, this is assuming I'm not just hallucinating what I am claiming.
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 260d
The Zig core team is pretty chill and pretty united around strong engineering ethos. And tbf their own compiler is pretty performant and produces similar level quality code. The argument that compiler dev is hard falls fairly flat when they are succeeding in developing their own compiler.
hark@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 260d
I think that comes from Andrew Kelley having strong opinions, sometimes with harsh language added. It's like the internet is over-correcting for the much stronger and harsher early internet days, so he's admonished for being "unprofessional". I don't care for this sanded-down squeaky-clean vision of the internet that is being pushed for, particularly by the corporate crowd.
jeena@piefed.jeena.net · 24 pts · 260d
I feel like I'm in good company, I moved my stuff to my own forgejo instance about two month ago because finally I had some time to set one up. I wanted to do it for years because it was embarrysing to host open source code on a closed source platform ran by Microsoft. But my main kick in the but to really just do it was their CEO told his workers to embrace AI or get out: https://www.businessinsider.com/github-ceo-developers-embrace-ai-or-get-out-2025-8 I knew this is not the place to be anymore.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 23 pts · 262d
I've been enjoying zig.
It feels like when I go to write C, but without a bunch of code churn/copy paste on getting just the right memory management interface.
It's not perfect, and the API churn makes it really annoying to find decent documentation. But it's fun.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 262d
You might like Odin. It's stable and in industry use.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 261d
I think the next language I’ll learn will be rust, but Odin has been recommended to me a couple times now.
I do want to try that one out
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 261d
Same boat, but be warned that Zig and Odin are C-like, while Rust is C++ like. The different workflow needs some getting used to.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 261d
Thanks.
I always avoided c++ for its complexity and bad error messages.
If rust is better at that then I’ll give it an honest shot.
jimmy90@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 261d
it's famously better at that
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 260d
The build system was basically a black box until 0.14.
devolution@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 261d
Xbox. Lol. Microsoft has the Mierda touch.
Reginald_T_Biter@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 260d
I think of it as the Shidas Touch
Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 260d
Shitass touch
vogi@piefed.social · 19 pts · 262d
Love Codeberg. Just wish there would also be HackerHill, BytePeak and SoftwareSummit with federation!
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 261d
I love that Codeberg exists, but there's one thing I kinda dislike.
I'd like to use the same forge for my private projects (hey, a couple of them may make money one day! I gotta eat too) as I do for open source stuff, but Codeberg is explicitly open source only.
It's a minor thing, really. Which I could get past by using another Forgejo instance, like Codefloe. But these smaller instances, how long will they be around?
I suppose just running my own git server, with or without a forge attached to it, for private projects, is the only real solution. But then I have even more things to self-host lol
moonshadow@slrpnk.net · -7 pts · 261d
I see this as a feature not bug, and tbh kinda resent those who hoard information and try to extract wealth from it. Extremely rude to the giants whose shoulders your work is built on. I'm the person who's going to crack and redistribute your shit as soon as you publish it, nice to meet you :)
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 261d
Out of curiosity, how do you crack and redistribute backend code as soon as a service is published?
Client-side code is usually Javascript for everything made in the last 10 years anyway, it doesn't need a lot of cracking lol, it's usually just minimized.
Anyway, say I'm building something that has taken me years of working in a specific industry to even be able to understand the requirements, that's only useful for companies (NOT private individuals, though some companies may only have 1-2 employees, but many will have thousands). There's literally no way it would benefit a private individual because for the 10% of it that overlaps with things private individuals also do, there's already great open source solutions. What exactly is the problem with charging money for it, given that it's ONLY going to be used by for-profit companies who are themselves charging money for their services?
Not really a project that would benefit normal people. You and I would have no use for it.
moonshadow@slrpnk.net · -2 pts · 261d
That was somewhat facetious and self-aggrandizing, "cracking" something isn't always possible or necessary. If your service was unique/useful enough, I would contribute to reverse engineering enough of that backend to replicate its functionality. More likely I'd just refuse to use it and support open alternatives
Unsolicited advice though, giving stuff away generates a huge amount of goodwill that can be way more useful and rewarding than revenue. Contributors instead of employees, love instead of money, place and purpose instead of points in your bank account. I'm not wealthy by any means, but I'm comfortable enough and haven't had to buy a laptop since high school
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 261d
Sure. But thing is, there's software out there for which FOSS doesn't even make much sense.
I'm talking things that are so niche, the total amount of potential users (not customers - that's a much smaller number) is in the hundreds of thousands, not even millions - most of whom have no say in what software they use, nor does it affect their pay checks.
If I was building, say, accounting software that every company can use, that'd be different, because while still business focused, there'd be a lot more grass roots interest in it. But I'm talking about software where you have to sell it to a bunch of execs, along with support contracts and uptime guarantees, because their entire business is dependent on it functioning properly. I'm also talking about software for one niche of one industry in one country.
The project isn't useful enough to you, an engineer, to reverse engineer the backend. Nor are there any open alternatives that work. It requires keeping up with regulations, including some that change every year. It's not that the software itself is super complex magic, it's that it stops being useful if not well-maintained.
What I have considered, though, is making parts of it open source, and keeping only the "secret sauce" proprietary. The open source parts would be stuff that could be used to build similar software for other niches of the same target industry, whereas the super specific niche stuff and all the regulation compliance stuff (much of which is just for that one niche anyway - other niches have different regulations) would be proprietary. Essentially building a set of FOSS libraries, and a niche proprietary application that uses them to service a specific market. Again, good reason for using a forge where you can have both public and private projects - but of course I could just use CodeBerg for the open source and host the rest of it privately.
I'm only building this in my spare time and fairly slowly because I have to do work that gets me paid though. I don't know if I'll ever have an MVP I could show investors or clients.
moonshadow@slrpnk.net · 0 pts · 261d
This seems perfectly reasonable and I wish you the best of luck. Just don't expect anyone to provide the infrastructure for your proprietary secret sauce for free!
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 260d
Well, github would provide it for free. Their business model is that just hosting shit is free, but costing them actual server resources means you gotta pay 'em. And that's a sensible business model IMO, but unfortunately they're also owned by Microsoft, which I didn't even like 2 decades ago, let alone now that they're pushing AI.
Guess what I'm hoping is for Github alternatives, potentially based on Forgejo, to adopt a similar business model (free storage, paid runners beyond a very limited free tier essentially), without the whole using everyone's code for AI training part.
I also have no problem with a small recurring donation. But the ironic part here is that I wouldn't want to use a forge that's so small that it NEEDS the donations. I don't want it to disappear after a year.
davidagain@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
You:
Also you:
moonshadow@slrpnk.net · 0 pts · 260d
My brother in christ that's the exact line I was referring to, what else in the wide world of reading comprehension do you think I was talking about?
davidagain@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
Sounded to me like you were firing off at someone for having a private personal project by claiming that you would personally intervene to prevent them making any money from their code, then later you told them that they were being self aggrandizing. That's how it comes across.
You doubled down on your threat with detail, which doesn't give readers the context to be able to deduce that you meant to be in the slightest bit self aware or apologetic, so without re-quoting yourself, it came across as hypocritical.
Maybe "sorry, that was somewhat facetious and self-aggrandizing of me" and then not doubling down might have come across better. That's what I think, anyway.
D1re_W0lf@piefed.world · 15 pts · 261d
Let me guess… Thanks to this “bug” Microsoft / GitHub are charging their paying costumers for something that otherwise would be just idle time. 🤔
alias_qr_rainmaker@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 260d
foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev · 1 pts · 260d
if he's actually autistic, he's fucked up really. hard. anyway jus wanted to note that he's certainly no good coder.
alias_qr_rainmaker@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 260d
alias_qr_rainmaker@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
alias_qr_rainmaker@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 260d
davidagain@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
Nope nope nope nope nope. Why would I trust a browser written by criminals for criminals or by the FBI/CIA for criminals with my browsing? Nope nope nope.
biofaust@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 262d
I am a wanna-be coding data analyst who has decided to start directly in Codeberg, more because of anti-US than anti-AI sentiment.
I have 2 questions for everyone more experienced than me and in general more knowledgeable of the market dynamics:
killabeezio@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 262d
I highly doubt there will ever be parity. There will also be some differences where there can be improvements made over GitHub. Right now you only hear about individuals moving over or open source software. This is mainly because they don't need the enterprise features that GitHub has. I am not sure if you self hosted forgejo if you would get those as well. It's meant to be free. This is the biggest thing that would be missing. For individuals, I don't think you'll notice many differences.
For your second question. It doesn't matter. What matters is git. There are 2 main ways to access this. SSH and http. All you really need is git. There are other tools out there like gitlab. Gitlab is pretty decent too, but the workflow is a bit different. You can even self host with gitlab too. You may not see many direct integrations to gitlab either, but people have been working with it for years now. There is also bitbucket. I think forgejo has a better chance at succeeding though if it continues to do what it's doing. Just tailor to the free and open source community. Really the only thing people need to do is create an account and set up some ssh keys. Beyond creating an account, there is no difference in how you clone a repo from GitHub and codeberg. Just copy the URL and do git clone.
TL;DR GitHub and codeberg have different missions. It will be a similar experience and features for individuals or open source projects are close to the same on both platforms. You probably won't notice much of a difference.
NullCypher@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 261d
Codeberg limits the type of license that can be hosted to open source licenses so open source is really the only option at the moment.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 261d
How is this generally pronounced? I feel like "for-GAY-hoe" would be the only workable pronunciation.
kalleboo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 261d
Their FAQ actually has an audio clip, haha https://forgejo.org/static/forgejo.mp4
davidagain@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
Forge jerk-off? No. Not that. Definitely not that.
moonshadow@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 261d
Forge-ayo
Think hispanic
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 261d
Ah, I was thinking Portuguese-esque.
termaxima@slrpnk.net · 10 pts · 261d
Go go gadget-o Codeberg !
Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 260d
It's ruining every product and service actually!
demizerone@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 262d
Ugggh I've been wanting to migrate for months. RIP GitHub.
vogi@piefed.social · 3 pts · 262d
Im eyeing Zig for a long time also as the core developers behind it seem to be really cool and drama free. Which, i know, is no argument for an programming language but cool non the less. Just hope the language itself is also cool to work with.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 261d
I feel that
azvasKvklenko@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 261d
I wish Microsoft keeps up with its AI obsession and push as much as possible. At some point they’ll realize the reputation damage, but the longer it will take the better. Just stop the negative publicity
axum@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -67 pts · 262d
Don't see why this even needs to be news.
Zig is just mid anyway as a programming language, partly because its just a new masturbatory Lang for C people and partly because of Andrew's poor, shepherding of the project.
I don't think Andrew is notable enough to bother having a full article about the things he does.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 29 pts · 262d
You sound like you know what you're talking about. I would love to try the programming language you created. Can you share it?
axum@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -7 pts · 262d
Feel free to try out Rust then.
Not everyone needs to invent a language when one can contribute to an existing one.
theherk@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 262d
Careful. You might burn yourself on that take.
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 260d
I thin Zig actually stands out pretty well from the pack. You sound maybe a little jealous or something?