That's excellent. And as these mega corps watch consumers favor those products. Maybe, just maybe they'll fucking implode. That's just a fantasy I know.
I could see a refusal to use codegen as a potential liability, but that's not "skills". The biggest thing about codegen is you have to review it and just lower your expectations that the code comes from a technique dumber than the dumbest human intern you have ever seen and approach it with supremely thorough skepticism. It's exhausting how dumb it can be and how you have to be paranoid for every single piece of output. But it's not a "skill"
While we don't do game development, my company has investigated using gen ai for code and we found that it doesn't reliably assist us in anything other than boilerplate code. I personally found that it hallucinates APIs on the regular which made it a massive waste for me as I basically had to go back and rewrite most of the code myself. Using gen ai for code reminded me of every time I've worked at a company that outsourced code; we rarely ever got what we asked for and by the time we got something usable it still wouldn't be up to our standards, which generally resulted in scrapping what was delivered and having to rewrite the whole thing internally.
Using AI for code requires a high level of specificity, software houses that are getting the most out of it are not using it so much inline or vibe coding because as you say that leads to hallucinations or having to repeat yourself.
The common approach now is to use multiple agents with different responsibilities, the human effectively becomes a team leader and uses one chatbot to orchestrate a plan being very specific about the outcomes and the requirements and breaking the plan down into phases,
Another agent will be used to write the code, they will have set rules files to keep them on guard rails, they will check their work as they go and deliver a pull request at the end of it for the human to check and approve
The next agent will be there to write tests and check the work of the second agent.
It's a lot more work than writing a single prompt and expecting a good outcome or close approximation, but it is getting better results now.
I made a post about thia exact thing a couple of weeks ago! I will give my money to people not using ai bullshit, and if theyre liars, they wont see a cent from me again. People need to stand up and have some damn principles about this.
Ok sure, but how much of the game will actually be generated by dolphins?
This will probably be just another example of HUMAN appropriation when plenty of dolphin developers are struggling to even find work in this industry. Maybe when dolphins are literally the subject matter of the game we could consider inclusivity in its development?
You know, I recall playing this at a friend's house decades ago and being totally, utterly, stuck on the first level for like... many hours.
So yeah, you may be right about that.
Was there like, a maze in that level? I think I remember a maze that ultimately led to a smaller area of open water, where you were just like "well fuckin' now what?"
Oh come on, I see right through your posturing to be allowed to open an all-dolphin game dev sweat shop. Stop it, it's a waste of money because the whales always interfere and get the dolphins to unionize after the dolphins earn their programming degrees and then they go out and write emulators (because obviously we just close the shop). One of these days they'll get in contract with the penguins and might start pumping out Linux distros!
Yep. It will create something that at a glance looks like pixel art, then you zoom in and find anti-aliased rectangular pixels made out of three different shades of the main color, a weird line, and no clear grid.
A whole song and dance to post-process a broken pixel art image into a fixed grid. I'd rather just have talent or pay a human being that will make art in the first place, thanks.
Also, the example shown would be a terrible image to use as an asset, by the way. It's a clear example of not pixel art, rather, 2D art forced to be interpolated in a "pixel like" fashion (aka what happens if you do a few nearest neighbor passes and then a fixed grid downsampling)
Note that there's more than one model to do pixel art and there's pixel art LoRAs that do a decent job. There's loads of flexibility when generating this kind of thing.
Also, you can just tell it to generate a thousand over like 10 minutes and pick the best one and use that as a base to improve upon. AI is just a single tool in the workflow.
I also want to point out that not everyone can just pay someone. Don't be paternalistic: If people want to use AI in their workflow for any reason that's their concern. To angrily throw your hands in the air and say, "I'm not touching it because AI!" is like giving free money to the big publishers.
You're setting a completely unnecessary high bar, "you must be this rich to ride."
The person above you is wrong, while a generalist model will struggle to make valid pixel art, either a specially trained model or one with elements to force a specific structure could make generative pixel art.
The Yamaha chip (YM2612) really gave it a super grunge sound, perfect for games like Comix Zone.
That said, it still felt at home with new age music like Ecco's.
The fact that we had a synthesizer playing live music is still mesmerizing me.
This song (All Good Times, by MelonadeM) isn't from a game, rather it's one of the demo songs included with Furnace, a chiptune tracker. And it goes so fucking hard:
The developer – whose credits also include Chakan: The Forever Man, Kolibri, Mr. Bones and Three Dirty Dwarves – has previously been quite vocal about his support of tech such as Web3, AI and LLMs (Large Language Models) in video games.
His LinkedIn profile states that one of his "near-term" goals is to "create an AI system to generate ergodic game content." His current company, PLAYCHEMY, lists "gamification of AI models, Stable Diffusion, LLM, and NeRF" as some of its primary areas of interest.
Save the planet with ECCO, to kill it everywhere else? It's just marketing (it's working though). Wait for the reviews instead.
Listening to marketeers do their thing. Have we not learned our lesson yet. They'll say whatever it is to sell their game.
Let them make it. Let them release it. Find out if it's something you want to buy. Buy it. "It's about saving the planet" why would anyone volunteer to carry water for them?
I mean I didn't buy into hype even when I got the gameboy pocket camera, never have and also never pre-ordered anything. except once, I realise I pre-ordered wow to get it at launch day
It isn't about saving the planet. They never said it was about saving the planet, they don't think GenAI is destroying the planet (see excerpt) The saving the planet thing came all from you.
It's about marketing, and it's working, here you are saying ecco the dolphin is saving the planet. Unless you were telling me the plot of ecco, and yeah I suppose, but that's a bit out of context. Haven't bought into the hype? What more hype is there than saving the planet.
What's the most over hyped game you know? Where were people saying it was saving the planet? Great graphics, incredible gameplay, get to watch an acorn grow into a tree in real time... But saving the planet?!
I somehow read "not a single pixel will not be AI generated" at first. My brain just defaulted to that. I was confused by the replies for a minute straight.
It's the same kind of sadness that I feel knowing that a ton of YouTubers who would rather not show their face now have to just so that people know that they're not a fucking clanker. Especially if they're new at it and don't have a backlog or community to prove that they've been around longer than the AI slop.
Why do you want it to fail? I'm so happy that Sega is one of the companies who does games that are not mainstream boring stuff. In fact, this is something I would expect from a small indie team. Shouldn't we celebrate that and support?
Watch... They'll make money by virtue signalling "no AI use" and then the second AI inevitably goes mainstream pivot to showing off because they use "the best AI". The trick is to make money no matter which way the wind blows.
No. DeviantArt, Universal, Disney, Shutterstock, Instagram and friends are the juggernauts. Artists already gave it all away.
There isn't a scenario where individual artists get a piece of that money. Legislation, if it comes, will protect data aggregators, record companies and Hollywood, with the aim of killing open source.
Google paid 60$ million for Reddit's data and I still haven't received my dollar. Google would also love it if training a model costs so much only they could afford to build a legal one.
I'm saying they stopped owning it the moment they put it on the big websites and signed away their work by clicking the box at the end of the ToS. I don't think it's right, just how it is.
I see two choices:
Scrapping isn't considered theft and we all get easy access to these new tools.
It's considered theft and the new tools end up behind censored subscription models while shutter stock makes a shit load of money.
Paying every artists what they are worth is a logistical nightmare because of the amount of data needed. It simply won't happen and isn't a realistic scenario. It sucks but sticking your head in the sand and giving a soft monopoly to google and openai only helps google and openai.
I understand what you are saying, but it also assumes surrendering to AI. Many of us are planning to avoid, boycott, and fight that slop to our dying breath. AI needs to be unpopular and unprofitable. The technology isn’t going to disappear, but we can make sure it’s not socially acceptable to steal from or replace humans with expensive, inefficient, misanthropic, planet-killing software and hardware. Progress is being made and it’s important to understand that — just like crypto — this is a fight we can win.
I hope your boss won't pay you, because that honestly sounds like a logistical nightmare! They'd need like specialized employees and stuff to pay people! Craaazy!
There's no shortage of games that are fun to play, you can just select for studios that don't rely on the Grand Plagiarism Tool to get you to give them money
It's not all plagiarism, though. For instance, Embark Studios uses AI to create in-game voice lines for characters in their games. They made their own models with actors hired specifically to train them.
That's kinda a different case than what everyone is referring to when they're talking about this
However, it's an interesting point: do we know those voice actors are being paid the same as if they did the lines all themselves or is this a studio cheaping out on paying actors to do the job?
There might have been a load of actors who turned the job down before they found someone desperate enough for the money or naive enough to not realise it will likely drive down wages for voice actors if this becomes commonplace.
Same TBF, I don't really care if AI was used as long as it is an enjoyable game and the usage of it doesn't contrast from the game itself.
Being said, most the time when generative AI is used, it comes out sloppy and unenjoyable so if there is the genAI flag on the store page I will definitely give it a more thorough once over.
Procedural or structural AI though I don't even bat an eye on. It's whatever at that point we have used tools like that for years anyway and it's never been a problem.
Good games tend to be made by big teams. That’s why when you hear about some auteur recruiting his own random team for a game, it ends up being a failed venture usually.
AI is often an effort to replace large teams with small ones, churning someone’s half-baked thoughts into code and art. The result is rarely human and inventive; and in a lot of ways, it tends to show in the end product.
I'm mostly thinking of indie devs and how it can let small teams do more. I think some of these tools are a real boon to the industry, it's quickly becoming trivial to included animated cut scenes for example. I think the human and inventive part can still shine with competent devs.
I'm not advocating for shovelware here or games that are 90% AI, but a lot of teams that can't afford certain dedicated positions would probably benefit from using it in some parts of their game.
If it isn't noticable and gives us a better game, I'm more than willing to ignore the copyright companies constant wailing.
This is my take at well, but not just for gaming... AI is changing the landscape for all sorts of things. For example, if you wanted a serious, professional grammar, consistency, and similar checks of your novel you had to pay thousands of dollars for a professional editor to go over it.
Now you can just paste a single chapter at a time into a FREE AI tool and get all that and more.
Yet here we are: Still seeing grammatical mistakes, copy & paste oversights, and similar in brand new books.It costs nothing! Just use the AI FFS.
Checking a book with an AI chat bot uses up as much power/water as like 1/100th of streaming a YouTube Short. It's not a big deal.
The Nebula Awards recently banned books that used AI for grammar checking. My take: "OK, so only books from big publishers are allowed, then?"
Welcome to lemmy, your only allowed response to anything AI related is "AI bad", otherwise the 20 or so people who actually use this platform will downvote your comment.
You aren't an outlier. People judge art in a complex way including final product uniqueness and complexity. AI is just one factor. Hardcore anti AI crowd lives mostly in their own echo chamber.
108 Comments
itkovian@lemmy.world · 87 pts · 210d
I knew that "No AI used" is going to become a huge selling point for many products. And I think this is just the start.
LifeLikeLady@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 210d
That's excellent. And as these mega corps watch consumers favor those products. Maybe, just maybe they'll fucking implode. That's just a fantasy I know.
slimerancher@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 209d
Unfortunately they won't. They are earning tons of money.
LifeLikeLady@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 209d
Earningburning. Fixed it for you.Cocodapuf@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 209d
I'm gonna have my kid add "No AI used" to his lemonade stand sign. He'll probably double his profits.
(so like $4).
Blaiz0r@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 209d
The reality is software engineers will use AI or will find themselves out of work as they won't have the skills to get hired.
Customers may never know if AI is used as a tool in game creation but it will always be part of any software and development studio.
Using AI for music or design assets is totally different from using it for the code base and blanket statements don't improve the situation
itkovian@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 208d
I disagree with your statement, unfortunately.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 208d
I could see a refusal to use codegen as a potential liability, but that's not "skills". The biggest thing about codegen is you have to review it and just lower your expectations that the code comes from a technique dumber than the dumbest human intern you have ever seen and approach it with supremely thorough skepticism. It's exhausting how dumb it can be and how you have to be paranoid for every single piece of output. But it's not a "skill"
SynonymousStoat@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 208d
While we don't do game development, my company has investigated using gen ai for code and we found that it doesn't reliably assist us in anything other than boilerplate code. I personally found that it hallucinates APIs on the regular which made it a massive waste for me as I basically had to go back and rewrite most of the code myself. Using gen ai for code reminded me of every time I've worked at a company that outsourced code; we rarely ever got what we asked for and by the time we got something usable it still wouldn't be up to our standards, which generally resulted in scrapping what was delivered and having to rewrite the whole thing internally.
Blaiz0r@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 207d
Using AI for code requires a high level of specificity, software houses that are getting the most out of it are not using it so much inline or vibe coding because as you say that leads to hallucinations or having to repeat yourself.
The common approach now is to use multiple agents with different responsibilities, the human effectively becomes a team leader and uses one chatbot to orchestrate a plan being very specific about the outcomes and the requirements and breaking the plan down into phases,
Another agent will be used to write the code, they will have set rules files to keep them on guard rails, they will check their work as they go and deliver a pull request at the end of it for the human to check and approve
The next agent will be there to write tests and check the work of the second agent.
It's a lot more work than writing a single prompt and expecting a good outcome or close approximation, but it is getting better results now.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 209d
I made a post about thia exact thing a couple of weeks ago! I will give my money to people not using ai bullshit, and if theyre liars, they wont see a cent from me again. People need to stand up and have some damn principles about this.
whoisearth@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 209d
And what's funny is we all know they're going to use it somewhere.
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world · 57 pts · 209d
Ok sure, but how much of the game will actually be generated by dolphins?
This will probably be just another example of HUMAN appropriation when plenty of dolphin developers are struggling to even find work in this industry. Maybe when dolphins are literally the subject matter of the game we could consider inclusivity in its development?
#dolphin_life #Phins_In_Gaming #NotMyEcco
Zozano@aussie.zone · 14 pts · 209d
Look buddy, I don't give a single fuck about your #EccoFascist bullshit.
#AdolfPhin #PhinLivesMatterToo #NotAllPhins #ReleaseTheEccosteinFiles
ptu@sopuli.xyz · 8 pts · 209d
In the original game I’m sure you had to be a dolphin to beat the first level
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 206d
You know, I recall playing this at a friend's house decades ago and being totally, utterly, stuck on the first level for like... many hours.
So yeah, you may be right about that.
Was there like, a maze in that level? I think I remember a maze that ultimately led to a smaller area of open water, where you were just like "well fuckin' now what?"
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 208d
Oh come on, I see right through your posturing to be allowed to open an all-dolphin game dev sweat shop. Stop it, it's a waste of money because the whales always interfere and get the dolphins to unionize after the dolphins earn their programming degrees and then they go out and write emulators (because obviously we just close the shop). One of these days they'll get in contract with the penguins and might start pumping out Linux distros!
rafoix@lemmy.zip · 52 pts · 210d
What if I use DLSS to upscale and add frames?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 210d
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 23 pts · 210d
Maybe the new Ecco game will be optimized well enough to not need or include DLSS and frame generation. 🤷♂️
If they use that stuff and it's still a 2D platformer, holy fucking shit. 🤣
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 210d
DLAA then
rafoix@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 208d
I need 800fps. One of my Steam games was 800+ fps on its HUD even though it was on a 60fps monitor. My GPU was going at 100%.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 3 pts · 208d
The game can run faster than the refresh rate; you just won't be seeing more frames than 60 a second.
rafoix@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 208d
I paid for whole GPU.
Quetzalcutlass@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 210d
Well it wouldn't be a single pixel then, would it?
sundray@lemmus.org · 2 pts · 210d
kadu@scribe.disroot.org · 36 pts · 210d
AI is quite bad at pixel art in fact.
It understands things must look roughly made by squares, but it doesn't understand what pixels are and their fixed grid.
chunes@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 210d
To be fair, humans are also bad at it these days, judging by the amount of mixels.
acosmichippo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 210d
even if it is exclusively trained on pixel art?
kadu@scribe.disroot.org · 19 pts · 210d
Yep. It will create something that at a glance looks like pixel art, then you zoom in and find anti-aliased rectangular pixels made out of three different shades of the main color, a weird line, and no clear grid.
riskable@programming.dev · -4 pts · 210d
If you use a pixel art export node in ComfyUI that won't be a problem. There's a whole guide about it here:
https://inzaniak.github.io/blog/articles/the-pixel-art-comfyui-workflow-guide.html
kadu@scribe.disroot.org · 18 pts · 210d
A whole song and dance to post-process a broken pixel art image into a fixed grid. I'd rather just have talent or pay a human being that will make art in the first place, thanks.
Also, the example shown would be a terrible image to use as an asset, by the way. It's a clear example of not pixel art, rather, 2D art forced to be interpolated in a "pixel like" fashion (aka what happens if you do a few nearest neighbor passes and then a fixed grid downsampling)
riskable@programming.dev · -3 pts · 209d
Note that there's more than one model to do pixel art and there's pixel art LoRAs that do a decent job. There's loads of flexibility when generating this kind of thing.
Also, you can just tell it to generate a thousand over like 10 minutes and pick the best one and use that as a base to improve upon. AI is just a single tool in the workflow.
I also want to point out that not everyone can just pay someone. Don't be paternalistic: If people want to use AI in their workflow for any reason that's their concern. To angrily throw your hands in the air and say, "I'm not touching it because AI!" is like giving free money to the big publishers.
You're setting a completely unnecessary high bar, "you must be this rich to ride."
kadu@scribe.disroot.org · 3 pts · 209d
I'm not touching it because AI. Thanks.
jacksilver@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 210d
The person above you is wrong, while a generalist model will struggle to make valid pixel art, either a specially trained model or one with elements to force a specific structure could make generative pixel art.
This seems like a valid example - https://pixel-art.ai/
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 210d
They can base their pixel art off ai art, that resembles pixel art. Would still count as "no ai in the game" I guess.
Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 24 pts · 210d
What about the code?
CluckN@lemmy.world · 55 pts · 210d
Written by an actual dolphin
AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 21 pts · 210d
OMG NEW ECCO GAME
noxypaws@pawb.social · 20 pts · 210d
I'm so fucking pumped for new Ecco games. I loved the original on Genesis and it's about damn time we get some fresh stuff in the series.
Even better with this statement
massive_bereavement@fedia.io · 15 pts · 210d
I hope they make an effort with the soundtrack. For me that was a big highlight on all games (specially Sega CD).
solidsmoke@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 210d
Undercaves song goes so hard
noxypaws@pawb.social · 2 pts · 209d
YESS. I'm super eager to hear the sounds they come up with here.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 209d
Genesis music is of its own genre. So good
massive_bereavement@fedia.io · 4 pts · 208d
The Yamaha chip (YM2612) really gave it a super grunge sound, perfect for games like Comix Zone. That said, it still felt at home with new age music like Ecco's.
The fact that we had a synthesizer playing live music is still mesmerizing me.
Jack_Burton@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 208d
noxypaws@pawb.social · 2 pts · 209d
It really, really does.
This song (All Good Times, by MelonadeM) isn't from a game, rather it's one of the demo songs included with Furnace, a chiptune tracker. And it goes so fucking hard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQfSCvvqmXg
logicbomb@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 210d
Not a single pixel. The code, however...
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 210d
Not a single pixel. So they will not generate a single pixel, but multiple pixels?
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 210d
Found the lawyer.
communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz · 9 pts · 208d
I actually put just a single ai generated pixel in all my games
sundray@lemmus.org · 2 pts · 208d
jj4211@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 208d
Now you can't win some awards...
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 209d
A new Ecco game?? Yess. Love the genesis versions
InFerNo@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 209d
Annunziata has been talking about a new game for decades. I'm sceptical he'll produce a single pixel tout court.
Lvdwsn@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 209d
I just want him to bring back SmallBall Baseball man
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com · 4 pts · 210d
Ok then, that was always allowed.
KeenFlame@feddit.nu · 3 pts · 210d
It's about saving the planet, I think
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com · 3 pts · 209d
Save the planet with ECCO, to kill it everywhere else? It's just marketing (it's working though). Wait for the reviews instead.
KeenFlame@feddit.nu · 0 pts · 209d
Instead of, what?
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 209d
Listening to marketeers do their thing. Have we not learned our lesson yet. They'll say whatever it is to sell their game.
Let them make it. Let them release it. Find out if it's something you want to buy. Buy it. "It's about saving the planet" why would anyone volunteer to carry water for them?
KeenFlame@feddit.nu · 1 pts · 209d
I mean I didn't buy into hype even when I got the gameboy pocket camera, never have and also never pre-ordered anything. except once, I realise I pre-ordered wow to get it at launch day
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 209d
"It's about saving the planet" - KeenFlame.
It isn't about saving the planet. They never said it was about saving the planet, they don't think GenAI is destroying the planet (see excerpt) The saving the planet thing came all from you.
It's about marketing, and it's working, here you are saying ecco the dolphin is saving the planet. Unless you were telling me the plot of ecco, and yeah I suppose, but that's a bit out of context. Haven't bought into the hype? What more hype is there than saving the planet.
What's the most over hyped game you know? Where were people saying it was saving the planet? Great graphics, incredible gameplay, get to watch an acorn grow into a tree in real time... But saving the planet?!
KeenFlame@feddit.nu · 1 pts · 209d
I think you just don't get the joke..?
AbsolutePain@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 208d
Ye i just saw a vid on ecco. Wishlisting fs
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 209d
I somehow read "not a single pixel will not be AI generated" at first. My brain just defaulted to that. I was confused by the replies for a minute straight.
sirico@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 209d
Thank goodness I was worried the French fever dream of ECCO would be ruined
socsa@piefed.social · 3 pts · 209d
Ok, that was always allowed!
aesthelete@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 209d
I wonder if the name Ecco has to do with John C. Lilly.
MyNameIsAtticus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 207d
I remember getting irrationally pissed off at the genesis version when i was little lol. Great game though.
Etterra@discuss.online · 2 pts · 210d
It's the same kind of sadness that I feel knowing that a ton of YouTubers who would rather not show their face now have to just so that people know that they're not a fucking clanker. Especially if they're new at it and don't have a backlog or community to prove that they've been around longer than the AI slop.
janewaydidnothingwrong@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 210d
Not a single one. In fact it will be nothing less than all of the one's
sundray@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 210d
The zeros will be hand-made, however.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 210d
Nice
CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 210d
Oh god this is going to be awesome to watch this crash and burn
Edit: Oh god I read it wrong, I thought it said the whole thing was going to be generated by AI
Leaving this as proof of my shame
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 210d
Why do you want it to fail? I'm so happy that Sega is one of the companies who does games that are not mainstream boring stuff. In fact, this is something I would expect from a small indie team. Shouldn't we celebrate that and support?
CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 210d
Oh god I read it wrong! I thought he said the whole thing was going to be AI ack!
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 210d
Ah I see, just a misunderstanding. Well then the balance of the force is restored. :D
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 209d
I did that too at first lmao. With so many bad news about the opposite happening recently the brain just defaults to pessimism.
Novamdomum@fedia.io · -14 pts · 210d
Watch... They'll make money by virtue signalling "no AI use" and then the second AI inevitably goes mainstream pivot to showing off because they use "the best AI". The trick is to make money no matter which way the wind blows.
sundray@lemmus.org · 16 pts · 210d
LOL, it's not exactly niche right now, my dude.
Grimy@lemmy.world · -14 pts · 210d
I guess I'm an outlier, I judge games on if they are fun to play.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 210d
"We promise not to put turds in your punch bowl."
"Uh, actually, I prefer to make my own choices. Give me a cup of the Poo-Punch and then I'll decide if its worth drinking."
AstralPath@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 210d
This actually made me laugh out loud. 😆
frongt@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 210d
Unfortunately you are not, that's what most people do. We should all be including ethics in our purchases.
Grimy@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 210d
I do include ethics in my decisions. My ethics simply aren't dictated by copyright juggernauts.
frongt@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 210d
So all the individual artists who had their work scraped are juggernauts?
Grimy@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 210d
No. DeviantArt, Universal, Disney, Shutterstock, Instagram and friends are the juggernauts. Artists already gave it all away.
There isn't a scenario where individual artists get a piece of that money. Legislation, if it comes, will protect data aggregators, record companies and Hollywood, with the aim of killing open source.
Google paid 60$ million for Reddit's data and I still haven't received my dollar. Google would also love it if training a model costs so much only they could afford to build a legal one.
frongt@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 210d
So it's okay to steal their work for AI and commercial profit because they posted it on the internet?
Grimy@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 210d
I'm saying they stopped owning it the moment they put it on the big websites and signed away their work by clicking the box at the end of the ToS. I don't think it's right, just how it is.
I see two choices:
Scrapping isn't considered theft and we all get easy access to these new tools.
It's considered theft and the new tools end up behind censored subscription models while shutter stock makes a shit load of money.
Paying every artists what they are worth is a logistical nightmare because of the amount of data needed. It simply won't happen and isn't a realistic scenario. It sucks but sticking your head in the sand and giving a soft monopoly to google and openai only helps google and openai.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 210d
I understand what you are saying, but it also assumes surrendering to AI. Many of us are planning to avoid, boycott, and fight that slop to our dying breath. AI needs to be unpopular and unprofitable. The technology isn’t going to disappear, but we can make sure it’s not socially acceptable to steal from or replace humans with expensive, inefficient, misanthropic, planet-killing software and hardware. Progress is being made and it’s important to understand that — just like crypto — this is a fight we can win.
Noja@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 210d
I hope your boss won't pay you, because that honestly sounds like a logistical nightmare! They'd need like specialized employees and stuff to pay people! Craaazy!
9point6@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 210d
There's no shortage of games that are fun to play, you can just select for studios that don't rely on the Grand Plagiarism Tool to get you to give them money
Chozo@fedia.io · -7 pts · 210d
It's not all plagiarism, though. For instance, Embark Studios uses AI to create in-game voice lines for characters in their games. They made their own models with actors hired specifically to train them.
frongt@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 210d
They might have used them for fine-tuning, but there is no way that they produced enough samples to train a model from zero.
9point6@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 210d
That's kinda a different case than what everyone is referring to when they're talking about this
However, it's an interesting point: do we know those voice actors are being paid the same as if they did the lines all themselves or is this a studio cheaping out on paying actors to do the job?
There might have been a load of actors who turned the job down before they found someone desperate enough for the money or naive enough to not realise it will likely drive down wages for voice actors if this becomes commonplace.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 210d
AI is fascist. anything that uses AI supports fascism.
Pika@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 210d
Same TBF, I don't really care if AI was used as long as it is an enjoyable game and the usage of it doesn't contrast from the game itself.
Being said, most the time when generative AI is used, it comes out sloppy and unenjoyable so if there is the genAI flag on the store page I will definitely give it a more thorough once over.
Procedural or structural AI though I don't even bat an eye on. It's whatever at that point we have used tools like that for years anyway and it's never been a problem.
Katana314@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 210d
I think this still matters in a long term.
Good games tend to be made by big teams. That’s why when you hear about some auteur recruiting his own random team for a game, it ends up being a failed venture usually.
AI is often an effort to replace large teams with small ones, churning someone’s half-baked thoughts into code and art. The result is rarely human and inventive; and in a lot of ways, it tends to show in the end product.
Grimy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 210d
I'm mostly thinking of indie devs and how it can let small teams do more. I think some of these tools are a real boon to the industry, it's quickly becoming trivial to included animated cut scenes for example. I think the human and inventive part can still shine with competent devs.
I'm not advocating for shovelware here or games that are 90% AI, but a lot of teams that can't afford certain dedicated positions would probably benefit from using it in some parts of their game.
If it isn't noticable and gives us a better game, I'm more than willing to ignore the copyright companies constant wailing.
riskable@programming.dev · -3 pts · 210d
This is my take at well, but not just for gaming... AI is changing the landscape for all sorts of things. For example, if you wanted a serious, professional grammar, consistency, and similar checks of your novel you had to pay thousands of dollars for a professional editor to go over it.
Now you can just paste a single chapter at a time into a FREE AI tool and get all that and more.
Yet here we are: Still seeing grammatical mistakes, copy & paste oversights, and similar in brand new books. It costs nothing! Just use the AI FFS.
Checking a book with an AI chat bot uses up as much power/water as like 1/100th of streaming a YouTube Short. It's not a big deal.
The Nebula Awards recently banned books that used AI for grammar checking. My take: "OK, so only books from big publishers are allowed, then?"
BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip · -7 pts · 210d
Welcome to lemmy, your only allowed response to anything AI related is "AI bad", otherwise the 20 or so people who actually use this platform will downvote your comment.
BlackLaZoR@fedia.io · -10 pts · 210d
You aren't an outlier. People judge art in a complex way including final product uniqueness and complexity. AI is just one factor. Hardcore anti AI crowd lives mostly in their own echo chamber.
Amoxtli@thelemmy.club · -17 pts · 210d
Work smarter, not harder.
sundray@lemmus.org · 5 pts · 210d
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 210d
Work smart and hard. :-)