It sounds like you don't like pop music. 1989 is an objectively good album. I don't know anything else about any of her other music, but that single album is DENSE with well executed main stream pop.
Having said that, should tickets to see her be as expensive as they are? Should people be as obsessed with her as they are? No on both counts.
I think they should be upfront with people that when they go to her concert, they're not hearing her sing live, at least most of the time, and they are not hearing the band play live.
It should be obvious that no singer could do several 3-hour shows a week for more than a year, and not have it affect her voice.
Just check out the Wings of Pegasus YouTube channel, to see where two different concerts in different countries had exactly the same music (vocal and instrumental).
I know several people who spent thousands of dollars to see her in concert. I'm not going to go out of my way to ruin the memory for them. They got the experience they wanted. But I'm also not going to pretend that it was a musical experience.
I'd just add that I think part of their popularity comes from their "safe" image. You put on an Imagine Dragons song, you know you're getting a pretty apolitical "pop-rock" song, not like those dumb hippies from the 70s or those indie-rock losers. Which I think sucks, to be clear.
Their music doesn't move me in any way (except to turn it off). Can someone please point out any good bit of any song? I'm willing to try, but everything I've heard for years is just musical mush.
Coldplay is a band where I can recognize that there is talent, but I just cannot like them. The songs "Clocks," "Yellow," and "Viva la Vida" are good. Outside of those, I just don't like them.
KISS was mediocre rock at best. They have a few good songs. They are/were stage performers. Same with Gwar. Same with Insane Clown Posse. And KISS have done a lot to entertain their fans. They’re fine.
Most popular music is popular because a lot of people like it. I never much cared for Taylor Swift, but I decided to try her new album. I pay for music streaming, so it didn’t cost me anything. Turns out I really like most of it! Listened to her previous album and it doesn’t hit the same. So I’m not a Swiftie after all. Same with Kendrick Lamar. He was doing the Super Bowl last year so I listened to his latest album. I still play GNX from time to time.
Find what you love but don’t yuck somebody else’s yum.
If you like GNX try going waaaaaaaay back to the old old stuff, like his K Dot mixtakes back before he went by Kendrick Lamar. I think you can still find those on DatPiff, or at least you could add of a few years ago.
Exactly, also if you ever seen their photos in magazines from back in the 70s, they would have Pyro and spit out fake blood. If you never heard any of their songs just based on the visuals, you would think they were some deep disturbed hard-core metal but when you listen to their songs, it sounds like something you would hear on Sesame Street.
I bought this album (Meatloaf, Bat out of Hell) back when you went to record stores and flipped through albums and bought something because the cover looked cool. I was already listening to Judas Priest, Iron Maiden.. I was like wtf is this. Never understood that genre. And yeah, kiss sucks too.
Theatrical rock. Big outside the US. A lot of Americans don’t seem to dig it.
The fact that people acted like they didn’t know what he wouldn’t do for love tells me all I need to know about the haters. He spells it out pretty clearly. He won’t move on and fall in love again. He’s an immortal who fell for a mortal woman. She asked for all these things he could do. Then she said after she dies he should find love again. He said that’s it, that’s the line I won’t cross.
I was gonna say the video exists, but the video is about 7 and a half minutes while the album version is 12 and change.
One of my favourite songs right now is a Japanese song that's around 11 minutes long. One of my favourite English songs is around ten minutes. I like long songs. I am aware that longer songs exist (RUSH's 2112 being over 20 minutes, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly being something like 12-15 minutes, Rime of the Ancient Mariner and Hallowed Be Thy Name by Iron Maiden being around 10 minutes (sometimes much longer live), and I've even heard of modern songs reaching an hour or more. And some meme/concept songs that go for hours. Then you have concept albums that are meant to be listened to as a whole (as opposed to 2112 which was broken up into tracks). But I do like a few pretty long songs.
Meatloaf is a classically trained opera singer, and wanted to make rock ballads. I can understand people not getting it. Bat out of Hell II, Back into Hell was where he really hit his stride.
Not exactly what you're asking, but Nickelback was a passing good rock band with several great songs. How they became the punching bag of bad bands I'll never really understand.
I remember it seemed like every time I got in the car at their peek they would be on. I always just assumed it was because Canada has always about the minimum amount of canadian content played.
Nickelback has some great songs I still jam to. They’re just generic radio rock that doesn’t offend people. See also: Creed. Until Scott Stapp offended people.
hype? Pretty much any because hype is almost always artificial.
But fans? I can't say any band/performers don't deserve their fan base. You pull the crowds that need what you're making, so you inherently deserve them.
I can say that some fans do over hype the talents of what they like. It's perfectly okay to be a middle range musician, and it's perfectly fine to like them and recommend them exactly as they are.
Like, backstreet boys. Solid pop boy band. Had some great songs, but most were just okay pop. None of the members can really be compared to someone like Freddy Mercury, or Pavarotti, or Marvin Gaye, but they all had good voices to some degree or another and used them well. But their fan base back in the day was all about the hype, the fannishness of it. So they got hyped way beyond what they were.
That's the curse of a lot of pop performers, and it is the curse of teen/tween targeted pop for sure.
A lot of that kind of performer has to totally undo their family friendly (which is a bullshit term to begin with) focus to ever really grow musically. Look at pretty much every Disney escapee for examples. Timberlake, arguably the best example of someone escaping that trap without having to piss off the original fan base, still drags some of that curse with him while producing some very good pop music.
Now, KISS? Since that's the example in the post, I think you run into the trouble of hindsight. At the time they gained their initial popularity and success, they were a damn great live band. A KISS show back then was something most people had never seen, and the hype was justified
But they suffer from the success curse. Other people took what they did and did it better. So now the hype is essentially all nostalgia, so it feels out of place. Legit, go back and check out footage of their live shows and compare it to the standard rock bands of the same eras. It wasn't until they went full idiot and tried to abandon the makeup (and all that went with it) that they lost the thread. At that point, they kept trying to summon up what they'd lost and never regained their mojo. At this point, a KISS show just doesn't do justice to what the hype says. It can't, because it isn't the same band despite being mostly the same people.
But they were always mid tier songwriters (even the ones I fucking love were mid tier compared to a band like The Band that I tend to enjoy less).
So, that kind of thing is why I don't jump on hype or shit on hype. It's usually artificial, and it's also usually generated by dint of numbers. So hype never carries well.
But it's also why I never object or care about someone like Taylor Swift having a massive fan base either. She writes and performs for her target audience. She does that very well, no matter what else anyone thinks about her. Any pop performer is trying to do exactly that. Even niche subgenre performers that are actually trying to sell their music try to find a way to target a fan base (even if it's only people that would object to being called a fan base).
I would, at this point in my life, also say that at least checking out hype can be worth it. Even if you don't like whatever it is, you've shared something with other people, and that's a net positive. Plus, you might run into a few songs you do like from someone you don't otherwise enjoy (like shake it off from Swift for me)
(Just saying that so you pop by, and we can listen to some Rush together, maybe also some Yes, Hawkwind, Floyd, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, early Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Dream Theater, Fleetwood Mac, and Golden Earing's Radar Love.)
Oasis always sounded like they were imitating the concept of emotion, in their music, rather than actually expressing any. I don't believe Liam and Noel Gallagher have ever felt any emotions beyond disdain for one another
They're musically enjoyable but I do feel like we, as a society, need to truly reckon with how bad Oasis's lyrics are. My general thought is that they wrote the music first and then said "well let's not worry about having coherent lyrics, let's just have me singing words that sound good at the right time in the song".
Sex Pistols. Don’t get me wrong I like them, but they were children who made one album and were barely a band for a year. Their hype really comes down to the story of Sid and Nancy’s deaths.
My understanding is that it was a more or less some kids that hung out at the same stores in a mall.
Edit: I looked it up. They hung out in Vivian’s Westwoods clothing store, Sex. Westwood and another fashion guy from those stores managed and styled them. Sounds like Westwood might have even fed them lines that became lyrics. They barely knew how to play their instruments for a solid chunk of that time.
Ghost. It’s just not metal. You can be into it and I’m not going to judge you or anything, but just stop calling it metal, it’s arena rock. Sticking feathers up your ass doesn’t make you a chicken.
Same thing with Avril Lavigne when she first came out I remember a lot of people on TV as well in my personal life would call her the queen of punk no, she is not punk just because somebody wears leather arm guards and has a shitty attitude doesn’t make you punk.
You just don’t get it, man, punk isn’t about rebellion, community, individualism, and anti-authoritarianism, it’s about wearing ties with wifebeaters and singing about boys!
Its arena rock for sure, but they put on a damn good show and dont use any backing tracks, so much much respect compared to all the fake ass bands nowadays !
Why is it always KISS? People are making the mistake of treating KISS as musicians. They are showmen and good at their job. The music is just the background. I saw them live once and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen.
To me a lot of hate comes from the showman part. They toured too long. Last time I saw them in 2014 or so, I walked out. It was awful. The music was the music. The show was painful.
If they put in the work establishing themselves, composing and playing music, recording, touring, and attracting a fan base, then they deserve every bit of it.
I can't stand Kiss, and about 90% of all the other bullshit out there, but its not my place in the cosmos to harsh someone else's buzz about the music they like. My tastes are extremely eclectic, and only a tiny percentage would be into the same stuff I'm into. I wouldn't tolerate criticism of my musical tastes, and I'm not about to criticize someone else's.
I think anther reason why I don’t like kiss is there fans. As an example I have a coworker in his late 50’s and he is a huge kiss fan. But not just he is a fan YOU have to be a fan too or he will be mad at you. You can’t say that they suck or he will yell at you like a child. And his whole wardrobe is either kiss, Harley Davison, or Trump.
Basically any 80s hair metal. Never understood how any of those bands were even considered listenable. If it has to be just one I’ll go with Motley Crue.
Grateful Dead
Yes they are very good musicians. Yes some good lyrics & songs.
But Christ are they overrated. I usually went to their concerts primarily to stock up on acid
Overrated in what respect, though? What are critics / fans saying about them that you feel is over the top? For me, they were a significant folk rock band and cultural experience that formed a kind of haven from the world at large. They had plenty of groovin', pleasant songs & jams that I could sincerely recommend, but I'm not really sure in what way they might be "overrated."
One of my college roommates discovered the Dead our first year. By Junior year he literally listened to nothing else and had hundreds & hundreds of bootlegs. "Let's listen to They Love Each Other, a concert from the early 80s, maybe at the Filmore? Let's see... there's Jan 27, 1982... or Aug 14th, 1983... "
And OMG on and on about what amazing musicians/songwriters they are. But I'm hearing what sounds TBH like semi-literate bluegrass. Hard to play, but not exactly complex composition or lyrics.
"They're so honest and pure and noncommercial!"
Oh fucken gag me with a spoon they are multimillionaires many times over. And' don't tell me they never sold out, I'll point at Touch of Grey
But yeah, I get your point, there. I used to be casual friends with someone who sounds like your roommate, with a massive collection of live performances. I would listen to a bit of Dead with him, but would NOT have been able to spend endless hangout times listening to nothing but their concerts. And just for me, personally-- I have a certain revulsion for obsessive behavior like that.
I'd say the Dead are a very fine band in the ways I first described, but... yes, could definitely be overrated in the ways you just described. There's just too much fascinating music from around the world to make the Dead anything more than a passing obsession, at least for me.
Nirvana... And I say that as a pretty big fan of them. I have no idea how they became the biggest band in the world. They were really really good, but I'm surprised by how much commercial success they had.
There weren't a lot of radio friendly songs. Nobody knew what the lyrics were. For all the bands that try so hard to be commercially successful, Nirvana didn't try much at all and still succeeded.
I saw them here, before they got famous. They did a big tour in a white van, played a bar here with a crowd of about 30 people! Bought the last shirt from the hands of Kurt, I had absolutely no idea they would get famous, they were so far from anything getting played on the radio. I only knew about them because my brother's friend gave me a tape with them, Mudhoney, Tad.
Swear to God I cannot predict to save my life but live a few years in the future. You could have knocked me down with a feather when they got famous, and I think they were just as surprised.
Sadly I lost it, could not wear it in public back then, it had the circles of hell on the front and profanity on the back Fudge Packing Crack Smoking Satan Worshipping Mother Fuckers. White with pink print.
And yes if I had ANY idea they would get so big I would have asked them to sign it and kept it, I cut it up a little and wore it to shows and don't remember what happened to it. Really this was like 35 years ago! Maybe more. The club was the Masquerade in Ybor City in Tampa, back when it wasn't all bars and was still kinda rough.
I never liked Nirvana other than a song or two. They had Dave Grohl and that explains a lot. Plus Kurt was an icon. Their success didn’t bother me. But I felt others did grunge better.
I dunno, smells like teen spirit hit pretty hard. It was a new sound and many people’s first exposure to grunge. I agree, there are better bands (STP was better than Nirvana and I’m dying on that hill). But they were first, and it explains how they blew up overnight.
Lemmy tell you why you're wrong. JK you can't fix stupid! Also jk you're not stupid for having an opinion. I'm just bored waiting for my 3 year old to finish pooping kids still need help wiping their ass at this age but I do love Nirvana...got me through a lot of tough times. Listen to them live at the reading festival it might change your mind.
This makes me think of the band Everclear. Every song of theirs is exactly the same. Dun dun dun dun dun da du-un Yeah! dun dun dun dun dun da du-un Oh yeah! Insert lyrics about gardens or daddy issues. However, speed that same song up and call it "Amphetamine" and it kinda slaps.
To be honest? AC/DC; they've got plenty of good songs but plenty of duds as well. It's pretty much become one of those bands that if you ask someone, who's wearing their tshirt what their favourite song/album is, they either won't be able to give you an answer, or pick a really obvious one (most likely either Highway to Hell or Hell's Bells).
It's the same with Metallica and, to a lesser extent, Iron Maiden.
Aiming for radio appeal and catering to the masses is ok, as long as you do it from the start.
Every musician/band I know of that changed their sound to be more radio friendly has given up their own sound.
The first example that comes to mind would be Kevin Parker; the first two Tame Impala albums are amazing, but since then he went full pop. It worked for a few songs, but recently his features in other songs were better than his own stuff (i.e. New Gold by Gorillaz and Neverender by Justice) IMO.
As far as AC/DC goes, I grew up with Black Ice, which is a decent album (albeit a bit bloated) but nothing I would necessarily would want to revisit any time soon. Pretty much all of their (popular) stuff sounds so big, yet lacks real depth in my opinion.
Metallica for sure as a 42 year old I’m a fan of them or to be specific I’m a fan of 2 albums, justice for all and the black album. I never stood the long-term appeal of them. I have a friend who is the same age as me who is a diehard fan of Metallica they kind of remind me of the next generation kiss. And also on top of that, they helped destroy Napster.
Electric Callboy. Saw them live at a festival. They're sooo popular here right now, but OMG this is not Metal. This is Carnival music. Glittery idiots, techno bassline and confetti canons. I actually left their performance early.
If any band has enough fans to have a "fandom", they deserve it. You still never have to listen to them or buy their music and that is fine as well. Anyone who names a band they dislike, probably has one they like that others on here hate. Big deal. Everyone has their own taste.
All hype is, well, hype. It is all manufactured.
Sure, but you say it's "just" music, whereas for me music is the greatest possible thing humans are capable of. It's still personal, but in no way is it "just" music
Sorry. I'm not explaining myself well and "just" was a poor word choice.
I refuse to (try to) idolize anything (well anything tangible) and especially things that are important to me. So music is an art like any other art. Someone will love it others might hate it and that's fine.
The "hype" is idolatry. Kind of in the biblical sense.
My relationship is with the music, not the artist. So no artist is with the "hype".
Hmm. If your relationship is with the music though, by extension youd have to care about the artist somewhat.. so there's no artist where you like a majority of their songs? Did you grow up only listening to greatest hits of the decades playlists? I wonder if this is more common among those who didnt grow up with albums.
119 Comments
etherphon@midwest.social · 59 pts · 200d
jaaake@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 199d
It sounds like you don't like pop music. 1989 is an objectively good album. I don't know anything else about any of her other music, but that single album is DENSE with well executed main stream pop.
Having said that, should tickets to see her be as expensive as they are? Should people be as obsessed with her as they are? No on both counts.
etherphon@midwest.social · 5 pts · 199d
gramie@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 197d
I think they should be upfront with people that when they go to her concert, they're not hearing her sing live, at least most of the time, and they are not hearing the band play live.
It should be obvious that no singer could do several 3-hour shows a week for more than a year, and not have it affect her voice.
Just check out the Wings of Pegasus YouTube channel, to see where two different concerts in different countries had exactly the same music (vocal and instrumental).
I know several people who spent thousands of dollars to see her in concert. I'm not going to go out of my way to ruin the memory for them. They got the experience they wanted. But I'm also not going to pretend that it was a musical experience.
Kcap@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 199d
Imagine Dragons, ugh, music designed for car commercials and 8th graders, fucking rip my ear drums out.
metaphortune@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 199d
I'd just add that I think part of their popularity comes from their "safe" image. You put on an Imagine Dragons song, you know you're getting a pretty apolitical "pop-rock" song, not like those dumb hippies from the 70s or those indie-rock losers. Which I think sucks, to be clear.
IronBird@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 199d
whats wrong with imagine dragons?
fyrilsol@kbin.melroy.org · 1 pts · 196d
harmbugler@piefed.social · 28 pts · 200d
Coldplay.
Their music doesn't move me in any way (except to turn it off). Can someone please point out any good bit of any song? I'm willing to try, but everything I've heard for years is just musical mush.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 200d
We at least got a goated meme from them…
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 10 pts · 199d
Coldplay is a band where I can recognize that there is talent, but I just cannot like them. The songs "Clocks," "Yellow," and "Viva la Vida" are good. Outside of those, I just don't like them.
bufalo1973@piefed.social · 2 pts · 199d
Joe Satriani - If I could fly
Maybe you find it sounds a little like some other song that came after this one.
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 1 pts · 197d
WOW!
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 197d
I think it hit different when they were contemporary. They sounded like nothing else on the radio. Ironically their songs were a breath of fresh air.
Adding on to your three, I'll raise Shiver... especially that riff! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8XFFTWwSvY
eezeebee@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 200d
Their songs The Scientist and Clocks are emotive and memorable. Besides those they sound like a safe and watered-down mid era Radiohead.
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 200d
Coldplay is musical morphine: You're either using it for a reason or you're an addict.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus · 2 pts · 199d
Theres a remix of the song Yellow by Khost and FKYA (no idea who they are) that slaps hard. But thats it.
FireWire400@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 197d
Have you listened to their first few albums? They really went down the soulless pop music route after Viva La Vida IMO
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 26 pts · 200d
KISS was mediocre rock at best. They have a few good songs. They are/were stage performers. Same with Gwar. Same with Insane Clown Posse. And KISS have done a lot to entertain their fans. They’re fine.
Most popular music is popular because a lot of people like it. I never much cared for Taylor Swift, but I decided to try her new album. I pay for music streaming, so it didn’t cost me anything. Turns out I really like most of it! Listened to her previous album and it doesn’t hit the same. So I’m not a Swiftie after all. Same with Kendrick Lamar. He was doing the Super Bowl last year so I listened to his latest album. I still play GNX from time to time.
Find what you love but don’t yuck somebody else’s yum.
butwhyishischinabook@piefed.social · 3 pts · 198d
If you like GNX try going waaaaaaaay back to the old old stuff, like his K Dot mixtakes back before he went by Kendrick Lamar. I think you can still find those on DatPiff, or at least you could add of a few years ago.
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 200d
Exactly my thought, Kiss is like royalty free muzak rock.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 200d
Exactly, also if you ever seen their photos in magazines from back in the 70s, they would have Pyro and spit out fake blood. If you never heard any of their songs just based on the visuals, you would think they were some deep disturbed hard-core metal but when you listen to their songs, it sounds like something you would hear on Sesame Street.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 14 pts · 200d
It was only really Gene Simmons that gave that vibe. I mean, ones a cat and another has a star.
henchman2019@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 200d
I bought this album (Meatloaf, Bat out of Hell) back when you went to record stores and flipped through albums and bought something because the cover looked cool. I was already listening to Judas Priest, Iron Maiden.. I was like wtf is this. Never understood that genre. And yeah, kiss sucks too.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 200d
Theatrical rock. Big outside the US. A lot of Americans don’t seem to dig it.
The fact that people acted like they didn’t know what he wouldn’t do for love tells me all I need to know about the haters. He spells it out pretty clearly. He won’t move on and fall in love again. He’s an immortal who fell for a mortal woman. She asked for all these things he could do. Then she said after she dies he should find love again. He said that’s it, that’s the line I won’t cross.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 200d
They only heard the radio edit, which completely cut that section of the song where he spells it out. Radio didn't want to play a 12 minute song.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 199d
I was gonna say the video exists, but the video is about 7 and a half minutes while the album version is 12 and change.
One of my favourite songs right now is a Japanese song that's around 11 minutes long. One of my favourite English songs is around ten minutes. I like long songs. I am aware that longer songs exist (RUSH's 2112 being over 20 minutes, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly being something like 12-15 minutes, Rime of the Ancient Mariner and Hallowed Be Thy Name by Iron Maiden being around 10 minutes (sometimes much longer live), and I've even heard of modern songs reaching an hour or more. And some meme/concept songs that go for hours. Then you have concept albums that are meant to be listened to as a whole (as opposed to 2112 which was broken up into tracks). But I do like a few pretty long songs.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 200d
Meatloaf is a classically trained opera singer, and wanted to make rock ballads. I can understand people not getting it. Bat out of Hell II, Back into Hell was where he really hit his stride.
FireWire400@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 197d
Meatloaf just had this annoying voice that made his music unbearable, the instrumentation is kinda ok if you like bloated overdramatic arena rock.
Being an anti-wax asshat, he died of COVID a couple of years ago. He was gonna do anything for love, but he wouldn't do that.
its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 25 pts · 200d
Not exactly what you're asking, but Nickelback was a passing good rock band with several great songs. How they became the punching bag of bad bands I'll never really understand.
Hermit_Lailoken@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 200d
They are like vanilla with vanilla sauce on top.
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 19 pts · 200d
They are "radio rock" personified.
its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 200d
So you're saying they defined a genre
MotoAsh@piefed.social · 3 pts · 200d
Nope. Just personified it.
generallynonsensical@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 200d
Hozerkiller@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 200d
I remember it seemed like every time I got in the car at their peek they would be on. I always just assumed it was because Canada has always about the minimum amount of canadian content played.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 200d
Nickelback has some great songs I still jam to. They’re just generic radio rock that doesn’t offend people. See also: Creed. Until Scott Stapp offended people.
SirActionSack@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 199d
Noone can tell the difference between Creed and Nickleback. I think that is part of the problem.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 197d
With legs wide opennnn
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works · 21 pts · 200d
hype? Pretty much any because hype is almost always artificial.
But fans? I can't say any band/performers don't deserve their fan base. You pull the crowds that need what you're making, so you inherently deserve them.
I can say that some fans do over hype the talents of what they like. It's perfectly okay to be a middle range musician, and it's perfectly fine to like them and recommend them exactly as they are.
Like, backstreet boys. Solid pop boy band. Had some great songs, but most were just okay pop. None of the members can really be compared to someone like Freddy Mercury, or Pavarotti, or Marvin Gaye, but they all had good voices to some degree or another and used them well. But their fan base back in the day was all about the hype, the fannishness of it. So they got hyped way beyond what they were.
That's the curse of a lot of pop performers, and it is the curse of teen/tween targeted pop for sure.
A lot of that kind of performer has to totally undo their family friendly (which is a bullshit term to begin with) focus to ever really grow musically. Look at pretty much every Disney escapee for examples. Timberlake, arguably the best example of someone escaping that trap without having to piss off the original fan base, still drags some of that curse with him while producing some very good pop music.
Now, KISS? Since that's the example in the post, I think you run into the trouble of hindsight. At the time they gained their initial popularity and success, they were a damn great live band. A KISS show back then was something most people had never seen, and the hype was justified
But they suffer from the success curse. Other people took what they did and did it better. So now the hype is essentially all nostalgia, so it feels out of place. Legit, go back and check out footage of their live shows and compare it to the standard rock bands of the same eras. It wasn't until they went full idiot and tried to abandon the makeup (and all that went with it) that they lost the thread. At that point, they kept trying to summon up what they'd lost and never regained their mojo. At this point, a KISS show just doesn't do justice to what the hype says. It can't, because it isn't the same band despite being mostly the same people.
But they were always mid tier songwriters (even the ones I fucking love were mid tier compared to a band like The Band that I tend to enjoy less).
So, that kind of thing is why I don't jump on hype or shit on hype. It's usually artificial, and it's also usually generated by dint of numbers. So hype never carries well.
But it's also why I never object or care about someone like Taylor Swift having a massive fan base either. She writes and performs for her target audience. She does that very well, no matter what else anyone thinks about her. Any pop performer is trying to do exactly that. Even niche subgenre performers that are actually trying to sell their music try to find a way to target a fan base (even if it's only people that would object to being called a fan base).
I would, at this point in my life, also say that at least checking out hype can be worth it. Even if you don't like whatever it is, you've shared something with other people, and that's a net positive. Plus, you might run into a few songs you do like from someone you don't otherwise enjoy (like shake it off from Swift for me)
LordCrom@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 199d
If anyone says Rush, I will find you....oh yes, I will find you.
Digit@lemmy.wtf · 14 pts · 199d
Rush.
(Just saying that so you pop by, and we can listen to some Rush together, maybe also some Yes, Hawkwind, Floyd, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, early Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Dream Theater, Fleetwood Mac, and Golden Earing's Radar Love.)
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 199d
I’ll say Rush, too, if it can get me in on this action.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 198d
Count me in, thats a great lineup
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 198d
Not really able to be overrated anymore as you'll be hard pressed to find an under 30 who even knows them.
But also its impossible for them to be overrated ;)
DemBoSain@midwest.social · -1 pts · 198d
Rush is goddamn terrible. Every song changes tempo 12 times so the drummer can show off.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 198d
The Pass changes tempo?
Now tool, it can get trippy and complex. But rush has 19 albums and theyre all pretty different, not a lot of them are actually that proggy.
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 17 pts · 199d
For me, it's Oasis. When they reformed recently to play some shows, it was headline news across the UK.
They're an okay band, but far from being anything special.
SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 199d
Oasis always sounded like they were imitating the concept of emotion, in their music, rather than actually expressing any. I don't believe Liam and Noel Gallagher have ever felt any emotions beyond disdain for one another
metaphortune@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 199d
They're musically enjoyable but I do feel like we, as a society, need to truly reckon with how bad Oasis's lyrics are. My general thought is that they wrote the music first and then said "well let's not worry about having coherent lyrics, let's just have me singing words that sound good at the right time in the song".
W3dd1e@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 199d
Sex Pistols. Don’t get me wrong I like them, but they were children who made one album and were barely a band for a year. Their hype really comes down to the story of Sid and Nancy’s deaths.
basilisa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 15 pts · 199d
W3dd1e@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 199d
My understanding is that it was a more or less some kids that hung out at the same stores in a mall.
Edit: I looked it up. They hung out in Vivian’s Westwoods clothing store, Sex. Westwood and another fashion guy from those stores managed and styled them. Sounds like Westwood might have even fed them lines that became lyrics. They barely knew how to play their instruments for a solid chunk of that time.
Sounds like a boy band to me.
basilisa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 199d
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 197d
Sid was the OG sex pistols ultra-violent megafan. The manager put him in the band basically as fan service.
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 199d
Ghost. It’s just not metal. You can be into it and I’m not going to judge you or anything, but just stop calling it metal, it’s arena rock. Sticking feathers up your ass doesn’t make you a chicken.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 199d
Same thing with Avril Lavigne when she first came out I remember a lot of people on TV as well in my personal life would call her the queen of punk no, she is not punk just because somebody wears leather arm guards and has a shitty attitude doesn’t make you punk.
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 199d
You just don’t get it, man, punk isn’t about rebellion, community, individualism, and anti-authoritarianism, it’s about wearing ties with wifebeaters and singing about boys!
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 199d
Now I’m gonna sing about a sk8er boy and sell t-shirts at hot topic.
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 199d
That’s #punkasfuck
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 198d
Its arena rock for sure, but they put on a damn good show and dont use any backing tracks, so much much respect compared to all the fake ass bands nowadays !
fyrilsol@kbin.melroy.org · 1 pts · 198d
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 198d
It’s not metal. It’s definitely arena rock.
helix@feddit.org · 12 pts · 199d
Taylor Swift.
nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 199d
helix@feddit.org · 1 pts · 199d
Why
hOrni@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 199d
Why is it always KISS? People are making the mistake of treating KISS as musicians. They are showmen and good at their job. The music is just the background. I saw them live once and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen.
Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 199d
Also, KISS is enjoyable to listen to. I'm not putting on headphones, taking my choice of medication, and having a transcendental experience.
I'm Shouting Out Loud. I'm Lickin' It Up. I'm Rock n' Rolling All Nite (and Partying Every Day). I'm Detriot Rock City...ing.
myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 199d
To me a lot of hate comes from the showman part. They toured too long. Last time I saw them in 2014 or so, I walked out. It was awful. The music was the music. The show was painful.
fyrilsol@kbin.melroy.org · 4 pts · 198d
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 199d
If they put in the work establishing themselves, composing and playing music, recording, touring, and attracting a fan base, then they deserve every bit of it.
I can't stand Kiss, and about 90% of all the other bullshit out there, but its not my place in the cosmos to harsh someone else's buzz about the music they like. My tastes are extremely eclectic, and only a tiny percentage would be into the same stuff I'm into. I wouldn't tolerate criticism of my musical tastes, and I'm not about to criticize someone else's.
Like what you want, WTF should I care?
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 199d
I think anther reason why I don’t like kiss is there fans. As an example I have a coworker in his late 50’s and he is a huge kiss fan. But not just he is a fan YOU have to be a fan too or he will be mad at you. You can’t say that they suck or he will yell at you like a child. And his whole wardrobe is either kiss, Harley Davison, or Trump.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 199d
That guy's problem isn't Kiss.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 199d
True
uid0gid0@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 199d
Steven Patrick Morrissey. Fuck him and his whiney bitch voice. He's also an asshole.
DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf · 9 pts · 200d
Kings of Leon? Nickelback? I'd also suggest Right Said Fred, but AFAIK they've always been derided and I'm Too Sexy is a meme at this point.
Like legitimately, I'm Too Sexy is a song you could rick-roll someone with.
BlueSquid0741@lemmy.sdf.org · 9 pts · 200d
Basically any 80s hair metal. Never understood how any of those bands were even considered listenable. If it has to be just one I’ll go with Motley Crue.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 2 pts · 200d
They were so overrated but I forgave them with "smokin in the boys' room"
scott@lem.free.as · 8 pts · 200d
Kickstart My Heart rocks.
darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 199d
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 8 pts · 200d
Grateful Dead
Yes they are very good musicians. Yes some good lyrics & songs.
But Christ are they overrated. I usually went to their concerts primarily to stock up on acid
JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social · 7 pts · 200d
Overrated in what respect, though? What are critics / fans saying about them that you feel is over the top? For me, they were a significant folk rock band and cultural experience that formed a kind of haven from the world at large. They had plenty of groovin', pleasant songs & jams that I could sincerely recommend, but I'm not really sure in what way they might be "overrated."
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 3 pts · 199d
Purely a single anecdote but not uncommon
One of my college roommates discovered the Dead our first year. By Junior year he literally listened to nothing else and had hundreds & hundreds of bootlegs. "Let's listen to They Love Each Other, a concert from the early 80s, maybe at the Filmore? Let's see... there's Jan 27, 1982... or Aug 14th, 1983... "
And OMG on and on about what amazing musicians/songwriters they are. But I'm hearing what sounds TBH like semi-literate bluegrass. Hard to play, but not exactly complex composition or lyrics.
"They're so honest and pure and noncommercial!"
Oh fucken gag me with a spoon they are multimillionaires many times over. And' don't tell me they never sold out, I'll point at Touch of Grey
OVER. RATED.
JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social · 2 pts · 199d
You GO, Valley Girl! :D
But yeah, I get your point, there. I used to be casual friends with someone who sounds like your roommate, with a massive collection of live performances. I would listen to a bit of Dead with him, but would NOT have been able to spend endless hangout times listening to nothing but their concerts. And just for me, personally-- I have a certain revulsion for obsessive behavior like that.
I'd say the Dead are a very fine band in the ways I first described, but... yes, could definitely be overrated in the ways you just described. There's just too much fascinating music from around the world to make the Dead anything more than a passing obsession, at least for me.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 3 pts · 199d
Q: "What did the Deadhead say when he ran out of pot?"
A: "This music sucks!"
fyrilsol@kbin.melroy.org · 1 pts · 196d
BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 199d
the rolling stones are a singles band. they dont have even one solid album
fyrilsol@kbin.melroy.org · 3 pts · 198d
stugots@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 199d
Exile on Main Street, Sticky Fingers…
BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 199d
listened to both multiple times. total bore to me
DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 200d
Nirvana... And I say that as a pretty big fan of them. I have no idea how they became the biggest band in the world. They were really really good, but I'm surprised by how much commercial success they had.
There weren't a lot of radio friendly songs. Nobody knew what the lyrics were. For all the bands that try so hard to be commercially successful, Nirvana didn't try much at all and still succeeded.
RBWells@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 200d
I saw them here, before they got famous. They did a big tour in a white van, played a bar here with a crowd of about 30 people! Bought the last shirt from the hands of Kurt, I had absolutely no idea they would get famous, they were so far from anything getting played on the radio. I only knew about them because my brother's friend gave me a tape with them, Mudhoney, Tad.
Swear to God I cannot predict to save my life but live a few years in the future. You could have knocked me down with a feather when they got famous, and I think they were just as surprised.
I agree with you. They were good but not great.
BrilliantantTurd4361@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 198d
Please tell me you have the shirt and can post a photo
RBWells@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 198d
Sadly I lost it, could not wear it in public back then, it had the circles of hell on the front and profanity on the back Fudge Packing Crack Smoking Satan Worshipping Mother Fuckers. White with pink print.
And yes if I had ANY idea they would get so big I would have asked them to sign it and kept it, I cut it up a little and wore it to shows and don't remember what happened to it. Really this was like 35 years ago! Maybe more. The club was the Masquerade in Ybor City in Tampa, back when it wasn't all bars and was still kinda rough.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 200d
I never liked Nirvana other than a song or two. They had Dave Grohl and that explains a lot. Plus Kurt was an icon. Their success didn’t bother me. But I felt others did grunge better.
Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 200d
I dunno, smells like teen spirit hit pretty hard. It was a new sound and many people’s first exposure to grunge. I agree, there are better bands (STP was better than Nirvana and I’m dying on that hill). But they were first, and it explains how they blew up overnight.
IWW4@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 200d
And they released three studio albums.
DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 200d
True, but 2 of them (bleach and in utero) are pretty rough and not polished for radio.
IWW4@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 200d
But I did and do love them.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 197d
They didn't understand why they got big either. Such a tragedy.
Surp@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 198d
Lemmy tell you why you're wrong. JK you can't fix stupid! Also jk you're not stupid for having an opinion. I'm just bored waiting for my 3 year old to finish pooping kids still need help wiping their ass at this age but I do love Nirvana...got me through a lot of tough times. Listen to them live at the reading festival it might change your mind.
DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 198d
I love Nirvana. I'm a big fan. But in 1991 nobody would predict they'd become such a commercial success.
actionjbone@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 200d
Weezer.
They have exactly two songs.
One song, Buddy Holly, is good.
Every other song of theirs is all the same song over and over again.
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 4 pts · 199d
This makes me think of the band Everclear. Every song of theirs is exactly the same. Dun dun dun dun dun da du-un Yeah! dun dun dun dun dun da du-un Oh yeah! Insert lyrics about gardens or daddy issues. However, speed that same song up and call it "Amphetamine" and it kinda slaps.
con_fig@programming.dev · 2 pts · 199d
I like Hash Pipe...
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 200d
Yes! Weezer is the Beatles for white suburban kids who don’t like spicy tacos.
FireWire400@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 197d
To be honest? AC/DC; they've got plenty of good songs but plenty of duds as well. It's pretty much become one of those bands that if you ask someone, who's wearing their tshirt what their favourite song/album is, they either won't be able to give you an answer, or pick a really obvious one (most likely either Highway to Hell or Hell's Bells).
It's the same with Metallica and, to a lesser extent, Iron Maiden.
fyrilsol@kbin.melroy.org · 2 pts · 196d
FireWire400@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 196d
Aiming for radio appeal and catering to the masses is ok, as long as you do it from the start.
Every musician/band I know of that changed their sound to be more radio friendly has given up their own sound.
The first example that comes to mind would be Kevin Parker; the first two Tame Impala albums are amazing, but since then he went full pop. It worked for a few songs, but recently his features in other songs were better than his own stuff (i.e. New Gold by Gorillaz and Neverender by Justice) IMO.
As far as AC/DC goes, I grew up with Black Ice, which is a decent album (albeit a bit bloated) but nothing I would necessarily would want to revisit any time soon. Pretty much all of their (popular) stuff sounds so big, yet lacks real depth in my opinion.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 197d
Metallica for sure as a 42 year old I’m a fan of them or to be specific I’m a fan of 2 albums, justice for all and the black album. I never stood the long-term appeal of them. I have a friend who is the same age as me who is a diehard fan of Metallica they kind of remind me of the next generation kiss. And also on top of that, they helped destroy Napster.
FireWire400@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 197d
I obviously never met any of them but the band itself just comes across as a bunch of douchebags, especially James Hetfield.
kinship@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 196d
Kill"em All?
ReverendIrreverence@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 199d
Dream Theater back when they were a thing
DemBoSain@midwest.social · 3 pts · 198d
The Ramones. If ever a band deserved to be a 1-hit wonder, this is it.
fyrilsol@kbin.melroy.org · 3 pts · 198d
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 198d
Sleep token is the precursor to ai music.
I cant stand it myself.
AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 198d
I really really loved their old stuff but I can't even sit through their latest albums. super disappointing honestly
sundowning was the last solid thing they put out imo
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 198d
Smashing pumpkins. Booooooring. And Billy is an ass.
technopagan@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 199d
Electric Callboy. Saw them live at a festival. They're sooo popular here right now, but OMG this is not Metal. This is Carnival music. Glittery idiots, techno bassline and confetti canons. I actually left their performance early.
brooke592@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 192d
Pretty much all of them.
It'd be easier to ask which bands do deserve their recognition.
basilisa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 199d
OldManWithACane@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 199d
I’ll fight you to say it loudest.
I get that they were supposedly somehow pretty influential but nothing in their catalog is pleasant to listen to.
It has all the quality of a garage band of middle school children recorded on a tape recorder that was run over by their dads car.
I couldn’t even pretend to like it to get with a really hot hippie chick in high school, not worth it.
Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 199d
If any band has enough fans to have a "fandom", they deserve it. You still never have to listen to them or buy their music and that is fine as well. Anyone who names a band they dislike, probably has one they like that others on here hate. Big deal. Everyone has their own taste. All hype is, well, hype. It is all manufactured.
Digit@lemmy.wtf · -3 pts · 199d
all.
especially the cia psyop ones.
so, especially nearly all.
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz · -4 pts · 200d
All of them. It's just music.
I like the bands/albums/singles that I like, that's enough.
Integrating a band into my identity is so far from likely that I won't even buy or wear a fan t-shirt.
DampSquid@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 200d
Sounds like you don't like music, you just prefer it to silence
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz · 0 pts · 199d
Not at all, I love music. But it's a personal experience.
DampSquid@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 199d
Sure, but you say it's "just" music, whereas for me music is the greatest possible thing humans are capable of. It's still personal, but in no way is it "just" music
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz · 1 pts · 199d
Sorry. I'm not explaining myself well and "just" was a poor word choice.
I refuse to (try to) idolize anything (well anything tangible) and especially things that are important to me. So music is an art like any other art. Someone will love it others might hate it and that's fine.
The "hype" is idolatry. Kind of in the biblical sense.
My relationship is with the music, not the artist. So no artist is with the "hype".
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 198d
Hmm. If your relationship is with the music though, by extension youd have to care about the artist somewhat.. so there's no artist where you like a majority of their songs? Did you grow up only listening to greatest hits of the decades playlists? I wonder if this is more common among those who didnt grow up with albums.
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz · 0 pts · 198d
We've diverged from the OP's question and descended into gatekeeping how to "music" properly.
Time to finish.
_deleted_@aussie.zone · -4 pts · 199d
Pink Floyd.
Some of their music is nice to listen to. Some of it is catchy. Most of it is just boring.
Geki@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 199d
THIS ONE RIGHT HERE! GET'EM UP AGAINST THE WALL!