Okay, we’re listening. First establish some framework of “reasons to exist” so we understand what that even means, and then tell us yours. Centuries of philosophy haven’t gotten past the first step and you probably won’t either, but I won’t stop you from trying. Okay, go.
Yeah man but does God have a Divine plan for him? Or does he just like have to make his own way? Or is his entire life just like a cosmic accident and it makes no difference if he lives or dies?
Mouth, Anus, Nasal Passages (2), Occular passages (2), Aural passages (2) = 8. -1 for topology reasons (one "hole" is a divot, not a tube, and a divot is topologically equivalent to a smooth surface) = 7.
I would post the human floss video. But it seems to be lost media. It was of a guy who got extra strength floss, tied it to one of his teeth, and one end to a pen lid... Swallowed the entire roll. Found the lid days later, and then pulled it back and forth, to floss himself. The video would be +10 years old.
I just remembered the name. But searching it up just gives reddit posts with dead links. It was called "full body floss." All the the youtube links are dead. But I wouldn't recommend trying to do.
Well, there's the one obvious one - mouth through to the anus, there may be more openings to that hole, but I don't believe any of them go all the way through.
They go through the same hole as the mouth in the end, though.
Yes, but they're distinct openings, which means we're not topologically equivalent to a doughnut when you take them into account. Topological equivalence implies that you can transform one object into another without changing the number of openings. Classic example is a doughnut and a coffee mug (the handle of a coffee mug is the opening). A human would be equivalent to a doughnut with two holes poked through the side into the middle.
a fanciful answer i heard was that "humans are how the universe perceives itself," and a person could be forgiven for thinking that the point of humans is to do science. closer to the ground, the point of humans seems to be to alter our surroundings to suit our society: kind of like ants. we build, we live, we reproduce, we spread. it's not a good thing or a bad thing, it just is what it is.
utility has several virtues, but i agree that it's not the end-all/be-all. strictly speaking the "point" of any living thing is to pass it's genes by reproduction, but in a complex and evolving world there are lots of animals that have a "point" in existing. oysters filter water, worms enrich soil, birds spread seeds, bees pollinate flowers, there are primary decomposers and secondary decomposers and tertiary decomposers and some birds build nests in trees and squirrels hide nuts and, you get the picture?
then there are other animals that we have changed for their utility. cows, pigs, chickens, and sheep are delicious and they would not make up such a share of modern biomass if we didn't industrialize their slaughter. in some cases the point of an animal is that we're gonna eat it.
if you're an emotion-forward person you might think "oh, no, that's terrible!" and you're allowed to feel that way but usually things are the way they are for a bunch of reasons. feelings are great but food security is better. utility also has a role to play in conservation: we're having a great time with industry but if the earth suffers catastrophic ecological collapse, the whole party stops.
I know. I was joking. It's a visual pun on how a feeding tube of the creature, a dinner plate and the capital O would look similar- hence typographical.
Organs are a distinct structure made of multiple tissues. So if this thing is just a few layers of tissue, then you can make the argument that the whole creature is essentially a single-organ organism.
Truth be told, I suspect there is a certain amount of hyperbole in the infographic.
The monophyly of Xenacoelomorpha soon became established, but its position as either a basal bilaterian clade or a deuterostome remained unresolved until 2016, when two new studies, with increased gene and taxon sampling, again placed Xenoturbella as the sister group of Acoelomorpha within Xenacoelomorpha, and placed Xenacoelomorpha as sister to Nephrozoa (Protostomia plus Deuterostomia), and therefore the basalmost bilaterian phylum<
Seems like "where on the tree of life" is "the first bilaterals" which makes sense. They seem very worm-like in bodyplan. Shit from the Pre-Cambrian can look pretty alien and have shaky relationships to more derived species.
The universe is a chain of cause and effect, and the only way to interpret "a reason" for something without introducing artificial human constructs of morality, is "what caused it?". The process of evolution caused this.
Bit of clarification: Xenacoelomorpha is the phylum that the genus Xenoturbella is under.
Someone left a tag at the top of the Xenacoelomorpha article advocating a rewrite, which I could probably quickly investigate (or even just check WoRMS) if I weren't currently a lazy lump of dead weight. Without assessing the tag's merits, I'd at least advise treading lightly as a heuristic.
recently the phylogenetic studies place this with another unusual bilaterian animal( very basal animals(Post-sponge creatures), they couldnt figure out which things this is related to.
96 Comments
db2@lemmy.world · 188 pts · 141d
No clear reason? It's because the thing can successfully make more of itself before dying. That's literally it.
See also: ticks
lauha@lemmy.world · 50 pts · 141d
No animal has reason to exist.
GameOverFlow@lemmy.zip · 30 pts · 141d
*nothing has
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 141d
As an animal myself, I'd like to object.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 140d
Okay, we’re listening. First establish some framework of “reasons to exist” so we understand what that even means, and then tell us yours. Centuries of philosophy haven’t gotten past the first step and you probably won’t either, but I won’t stop you from trying. Okay, go.
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 140d
Maybe i dont wanna share mt reasons ;((((
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 140d
Okay but you could still do step 1 without revealing anything personal. Tell us: what even is a “reason to exist?”
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 140d
One could be to be there to bring the trash cans back in after gc
KingOfTheCouch@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 140d
Damnit! Who let Socrates in here again? /gets broom and starts pushing
Shoo! Begone philosopher! Nobody likes your kind!
slackassassin@piefed.social · 2 pts · 140d
Because not existing is ...
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 136d
…where we all come from and where we’re all going!
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 4 pts · 140d
Sending memes in the group chat
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 140d
Yeah man but does God have a Divine plan for him? Or does he just like have to make his own way? Or is his entire life just like a cosmic accident and it makes no difference if he lives or dies?
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 92 pts · 141d
Sounds like Humans
sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz · 55 pts · 141d
Sounds like everything, if you're leaning nihilist.
Denjin@feddit.uk · 13 pts · 141d
Nihilists! Fuck me! I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism Dude, at least it's an ethos!
sroos@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 141d
Nine year olds, man!
osanna@lemmy.vg · 2 pts · 140d
Trump? that you?
sroos@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 141d
It also only has one hole, which, if you ask some topologists, is what humans have.
meekah@discuss.tchncs.de · 11 pts · 141d
I thought most humans are 7 holes
bss03@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 140d
Mouth, Anus, Nasal Passages (2), Occular passages (2), Aural passages (2) = 8. -1 for topology reasons (one "hole" is a divot, not a tube, and a divot is topologically equivalent to a smooth surface) = 7.
Math checks out. (EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egEraZP9yXQ )
CanadianCarl@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 139d
I would post the human floss video. But it seems to be lost media. It was of a guy who got extra strength floss, tied it to one of his teeth, and one end to a pen lid... Swallowed the entire roll. Found the lid days later, and then pulled it back and forth, to floss himself. The video would be +10 years old.
bss03@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 139d
Seems dangerous. There are sections where you wouldn't want the floss pulled taut, and certainly not the whole thing.
I wonder if it was just a magic / fx video; at least the "to floss himself" bit.
CanadianCarl@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 138d
I just remembered the name. But searching it up just gives reddit posts with dead links. It was called "full body floss." All the the youtube links are dead. But I wouldn't recommend trying to do.
sroos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 141d
Well, there's the one obvious one - mouth through to the anus, there may be more openings to that hole, but I don't believe any of them go all the way through.
ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 141d
That changes the topology though. It does go all the way through a section which prevents it from reshaping into a straw/donut
sroos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 141d
Yes. I'm afraid I'm not a real topologist, so we're at their mercy. Let us pray they don't come up with new holes.
gnutrino@programming.dev · 4 pts · 141d
But you are topologically equivalent to one!
Ravell@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 141d
Donut be afraid my fellow fleshtube.
thebestaquaman@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 141d
Two more out the nose
sroos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 141d
They go through the same hole as the mouth in the end, though. At least a part of them...
I think I said in another comment that I'm not an actual expert on this matter. So there may well be more holes in this theory, and person.
thebestaquaman@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 141d
Yes, but they're distinct openings, which means we're not topologically equivalent to a doughnut when you take them into account. Topological equivalence implies that you can transform one object into another without changing the number of openings. Classic example is a doughnut and a coffee mug (the handle of a coffee mug is the opening). A human would be equivalent to a doughnut with two holes poked through the side into the middle.
kubica@fedia.io · 5 pts · 141d
Return to donut.
sroos@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 141d
If you really think about it, humans are just donuts without the frosting or the sprikles.
We're the rejects in the donut display.
edgarde@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 139d
Our frosting is on the inside.
TurboQueer@lemmy.zip · 81 pts · 141d
NottaLottaOcelot@lemmy.ca · 23 pts · 141d
I also find that to be a weird question to consider, as though something must have a purpose to be worthy of existence
In that vein, what is the point of humans? To bring on the 6th mass extinction?
gizmonicus@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 140d
We're really trying, aren't we?
SlippiHUD@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 140d
I think try is the wrong world, pretty sure we've succeeded, the question now is "Does anything survive?"
Bibip@programming.dev · 5 pts · 140d
a fanciful answer i heard was that "humans are how the universe perceives itself," and a person could be forgiven for thinking that the point of humans is to do science. closer to the ground, the point of humans seems to be to alter our surroundings to suit our society: kind of like ants. we build, we live, we reproduce, we spread. it's not a good thing or a bad thing, it just is what it is.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 140d
What does "point" even mean in this context??
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 140d
<3
Bibip@programming.dev · 1 pts · 140d
utility has several virtues, but i agree that it's not the end-all/be-all. strictly speaking the "point" of any living thing is to pass it's genes by reproduction, but in a complex and evolving world there are lots of animals that have a "point" in existing. oysters filter water, worms enrich soil, birds spread seeds, bees pollinate flowers, there are primary decomposers and secondary decomposers and tertiary decomposers and some birds build nests in trees and squirrels hide nuts and, you get the picture?
then there are other animals that we have changed for their utility. cows, pigs, chickens, and sheep are delicious and they would not make up such a share of modern biomass if we didn't industrialize their slaughter. in some cases the point of an animal is that we're gonna eat it.
if you're an emotion-forward person you might think "oh, no, that's terrible!" and you're allowed to feel that way but usually things are the way they are for a bunch of reasons. feelings are great but food security is better. utility also has a role to play in conservation: we're having a great time with industry but if the earth suffers catastrophic ecological collapse, the whole party stops.
vithigar@lemmy.ca · 74 pts · 141d
Looks inside...
...organs.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 140d
is there a poop hole?
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 140d
No but also yes
kieron115@startrek.website · 7 pts · 140d
yeah, the mid-ventral butt opening
Tangent5280@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 140d
The sign on the outside says "Entry ^" and the sign on the inside says "Exit ^"
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 140d
There's a hole
Techlos@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 140d
Topologically speaking, no. This is clearly a sphere.
Corngood@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 139d
Hang on, is a sphere just a torus that poops out it's mouth?
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 140d
I am not speaking topoligically I am talking about the poop hole
BanMe@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 140d
As the old saying goes anyway
Nikls94@lemmy.world · 52 pts · 141d
It truly has one hole, in that it eats, has a digestive sack, and then vomits the poop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoturbella
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 141d
have had norovirus, know that feel
icelimit@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 141d
If the hole doesn't go through, it is only a pocket, typographically identical to a plate.
wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works · 21 pts · 141d
*topologically
(Typography is text font stuff)
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 141d
maybe they meant
O
wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 140d
As in "topographically", which specifically refers to land surfaces?
Edit: For the record, each of the following refers to a completely different thing:
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 139d
I know. I was joking. It's a visual pun on how a feeding tube of the creature, a dinner plate and the capital O would look similar- hence typographical.
wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 139d
Nice
icelimit@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 141d
Meh. I'll own my mistake. Silly autocorrect
Gathorall@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 140d
Well we're just doughnuts.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 140d
Kinda like a 2 stroke engine. The fuel and the exhaust all just mix.
It’s gross, but I can’t see any reason this disqualifies it from being on the tree of life.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 141d
Why is the digestive sack not an organ?
Bytemeister@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 140d
Organs are a distinct structure made of multiple tissues. So if this thing is just a few layers of tissue, then you can make the argument that the whole creature is essentially a single-organ organism.
Truth be told, I suspect there is a certain amount of hyperbole in the infographic.
libre_warrior@lemmy.ml · 45 pts · 141d
Exist for no reason? All life has a purpose, and that is to poop. The excrement speaks for itself.
FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 141d
It sounds like it doesn't have a poop hole
Edit: oh, nevermind. "For food to enter and exit"
ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 141d
Poop is subsistence, Sex is persistence
Ravell@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 141d
Time to wake up and go to work in the shit factory!
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca · 38 pts · 140d
"existing for no clear reason"
So like every other life form we know of?
endless_nameless@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 141d
I don't think any natural thing exists for a reason. That's reserved for things made or at least caused by sentient beings.
lung@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 141d
It's the roomba of the sea
RedAggroBest@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 140d
So from the wiki
Seems like "where on the tree of life" is "the first bilaterals" which makes sense. They seem very worm-like in bodyplan. Shit from the Pre-Cambrian can look pretty alien and have shaky relationships to more derived species.
tias@discuss.tchncs.de · 12 pts · 141d
The universe is a chain of cause and effect, and the only way to interpret "a reason" for something without introducing artificial human constructs of morality, is "what caused it?". The process of evolution caused this.
abbiistabbii@piefed.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 141d
Would.
Bibip@programming.dev · 4 pts · 140d
abbiistabbii@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 140d
felixwhynot@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 141d
Scientists do love to talk about worms
This has some details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenacoelomorpha?wprov=sfti1#Phylogenetics
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 141d
Bit of clarification: Xenacoelomorpha is the phylum that the genus Xenoturbella is under.
Someone left a tag at the top of the Xenacoelomorpha article advocating a rewrite, which I could probably quickly investigate (or even just check WoRMS) if I weren't currently a lazy lump of dead weight. Without assessing the tag's merits, I'd at least advise treading lightly as a heuristic.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 141d
is that a living fleshlight?
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 141d
This is a place for science! Not (your deepest) fantasy!
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 140d
c'mon! just the tip!
I promise I'll stop after that!
nexguy@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 141d
It looks like they do get new openings on the surface that excrete eggs and sperm.
ZombieChicken@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 140d
That looks like self-propeled bacon.
echodot@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 140d
Imagine scientists declaring that you are not interesting enough to be technically alive and you have been officially kicked out.
wuffah@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 141d
If it has at least one hole, then it exists for a reason. ;)
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 140d
It eats.
It is thus the primordial consumer.
... kinda does bare a resemblance to what AM turns Ted into...
Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 140d
The ocean's condom.
BanMe@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 140d
Jellyfish are the ocean's condoms. These are the ocean's big punchy balloon things. Either way Spongebob is having a good weekend.
Bullerfar@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 140d
You found a MAGA voter
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 139d
it doesn't even have a hole in the sense that it's for an entrance and exit as a single hole through.
it's literally just a cavity, like a trench
finallymadeanaccount@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 141d
Sounds like the pinnacle of evolution.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 141d
You know, simple tools like
cat? Same thing in software engineering.Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 141d
recently the phylogenetic studies place this with another unusual bilaterian animal( very basal animals(Post-sponge creatures), they couldnt figure out which things this is related to.
Arachnidbrilliant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 140d
Skv@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 140d
Ah, found reddit mods!
FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 141d
Doesn't belong. Too lame!