They don't actually like any kind of discussion that goes at odds with what's spread around there.
They'll let you do light talking, but once you get out the graphs or cite multiple sources for your point of view or anything like that they will instantly block you.
I waited two weeks this time to post ragebait (been terribly busy with the farm,work and palworld 1.0). Still my favorite thing that people take a troll post in the shitpost community as a legitimate post and are willing to argue with me.
Solid. I’ve been playing the shit out of it. They added a ton of new Pokémon Pals, including Alolan regional variants. Lots of quality of life changes, a story line, dungeon improvements, etc.
FANTASTIC. They've made some absolutely massive improvements and it really feels like a fully fleshed out game now. I've had three runs in its life cycle so far. The first was right around launch, second was about 6 months ago and now I'm on a fresh save. That said, the addition of the fine tuned settings is major. The consistant new content is really strong as well. I'm hoping they keep making new additions. I can completely see it being a huge franchise. My current level is 58 so I can't speak to a big chunk of the new content but I'm getting there.
Almost like its an impossible to achieve strictly idealistic and illogical pursuit. Interesting how thousands of individual communes are able to exist and thrive within capitalist states though.
Which is it? There can't be a "classic line" for historically implemented large scale communism if large scale communism is impossible to implement. You're contradicting yourself.
Every time something is labeled communism it's communism until atrocities happen. Then it wasn't really implemented. Both of my statements are true. Pigs can fly if you throw them off a cliff. But pigs never had wings so they could never really fly. That's because the initial statement is based on an impossibility centered around arbitrary vocabulary. Both statements are true.
Nah, that's nonsense word salad. Either large scale communism is impossible and thus has never been implemented, in which case the "classic line" is 100% true, or it is possible in which case your claim that it's impossible is wrong.
Either way you seem to have a pretty weak grasp of history and logic, so good luck out there 👍
The problem is that proper communism is functionally impossible, and every crackpot despot in the last hundred years has wanted to get a little street credit with the working class by slapping socialism or communism on their brand.
Proper communism has been done at a small scale many times, e.g. in Catalonia during the Spanish civil war. Its main point of failure has been insufficient ability to defeat violence from without.
Proper communism is functionally impossible at the present day. It is possible that after generations of widespread automation and gradual socialism, people on average may come to be able to exist communistically.
You are correct though that historical examples have typically just been slapping an ideological label on a system that was neither socialist nor communist in practice. I mean, communism doesn't even make semantic sense below the global level.
east of an arbitrary point on an approximately spherical object, where north and south are determined by a magnetic field that shifts over time, obviously...
This happens to every world reserve currency because the population constantly vote for more debt. It's happened to every single one, and you see see it happening today. Everyone keeps voting for more debt and screaming she more access to debt.
People literally just assume that to feel better, and quality of life is relative. There were probably some very happy times in the past where people enjoyed a lot more freedom and a lot more stars in the night sky.
One could argue that capitalism only did that because it needed to compete with communism, and that the more that capitalism eliminates its communist competition, the less it seems inclined to care about the working class.
It is important to note that they were going to a very strong welfare state, not so different than the most developed welfare states in Europe today.
So when I hear Americans saying this, I feel that it is important to note that they were not escaping to a American-like society/state, but a well developed liberal social democracy. Universal healthcare being one of many welfare services Americans do not have.
I would probably have done the same thing.
Btw: Not claiming you are American, this is just a pet peeve of mine
You mean the community based around low effort photos, ragebait, inflammatory and trolling posts is an inappropriate place to post low effort inflammatory ragebait?
Well we're all finding out how well capitalism works I'd say. Dudes have more money than God and are buying up entire western countries and their politicians.
They did, only it was a little later. By then it had emptied out and you could squat, set up a studio, throw raves and such in prime central locations for free.
The people of the GDR were caged in and cut off of their folk in the very city that just happens to be in west-berlin, so of course people were happy for the iron curtain to fall.
What happened financially, economically and technological with east-germany was a crime ("Treuhand Skandal") and was the harbinger of the ugly head that is capitalism.
I read 'Stasi State or Socialist Paradise?: The German Democratic Republic and What Became of It' by Bruni de la Motte, John Green, and Seumas Milne. This book really challenged my western perspective on East Germany and highlighted the complex collapse that occurred. Something that isn't talked about is how many social and workers rights were taken away or reduced when the wall fell. Feminism in particular backslid tremendously as state support for female employment was removed and women as a result faced widespread unemployment.
I guess I just want to point out it wasn't a perfect black and white victory for the west, it was also a calamity that caused depression era style suffering for the people living there. I strongly recommend the book for anyone that enjoys circle jerking the fall of the Wall.
Even a conservative thinker argued before that people don't just go to where there are "free stuff", most people still value rule of law and freedom. Only few, if ever, risked their lives crossing the Caribbean to go to America not to Cuba, the latter which has free healthcare. Now that I think about it, African refugees fleeing post-colonial strife did not go to either Eastern Europe or USSR during the Cold war, they went to Europe and North America instead.
Indeed. The "vanguard state" is a failed experiment. It inevitably gets into the control of corrupt officials who twist it to their own ends to magnify their own power (thus forming a new upper class of party officials who oppress the working class), and then it becomes self-perpetuating, unwilling to ever give up power and dissolve itself.
Future revolutions should take note and transition directly into a stateless, classless society.
Communism is a stateless, classless society. By definition, this means that there cannot be a "communist country", or a "communist state".
Oh wow, not the first time I've heard this! Such a blatant example of the no true Scotsman fallacy!
It actually isn't though. No true Scotsman is about pointing differences in UNRELATED characteristics to falsely reject provided examples. But "communist countries" are a violation of the clearly stated definition itself. Rejecting these examples is not fallacious.
Yes, countries in the eastern block can most definitely be classified as "socialist". Socialist policies generally center around "workers owning means of production". Meaning, most capital is owned by the working class.
NOW. What does one even mean by "owned by the working class"? Worker coops? Consumer coops? A singular state, owning capital? Different leftists have different positions on this.
But none of this really has much dirt on the idea of communism. Did the first French Republic after the revolution somehow show that republicanism, or democratic ideals were bad and that we should return to a monarchy? Not really. It was a revolution gone wrong.
Sorry, it was more of a reply to the discussion going on in the comments rather than your post specifically.
But in short, demonstrating the failure of "communism" by giving examples of objectively NON communist places isn't logical if we're having a good faith conversation. Yes, certain socialist economic, political and social policies MUST be criticised straight into the ground.
HOWEVER, criticizing "communism" while pointing at North Korea, China, the USSR and so on is like criticizing democracy and republicanism by pointing at Athenian slaves and the totalitarianism of the first French Republic.
104 Comments
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 125 pts · 28d
Crosspost this to ml if you're serious about trolling
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 28d
Feel free
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 66 pts · 28d
Oh we are months past the point where I can post in ml.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 28d
Same
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 21 pts · 28d
Well shit
bhamlin@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 28d
Perhaps you should be the shotposting alt account you want to see in the world...
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz · 18 pts · 28d
I would but they literally have a rule about not having a sense of humor.
DanceMomsSavedMe@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 28d
They will just block you.
They don't actually like any kind of discussion that goes at odds with what's spread around there.
They'll let you do light talking, but once you get out the graphs or cite multiple sources for your point of view or anything like that they will instantly block you.
timestatic@feddit.org · 2 pts · 28d
Honeslty I have the community blocked but I might just go there to troll with this pic now
gigastasio@sh.itjust.works · 74 pts · 28d
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 28d
I waited two weeks this time to post ragebait (been terribly busy with the farm,work and palworld 1.0). Still my favorite thing that people take a troll post in the shitpost community as a legitimate post and are willing to argue with me.
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz · 11 pts · 28d
Ooh! How is the 1.0?
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 28d
Solid. I’ve been playing the shit out of it. They added a ton of new
PokémonPals, includingAlolanregional variants. Lots of quality of life changes, a story line, dungeon improvements, etc.Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 28d
FANTASTIC. They've made some absolutely massive improvements and it really feels like a fully fleshed out game now. I've had three runs in its life cycle so far. The first was right around launch, second was about 6 months ago and now I'm on a fresh save. That said, the addition of the fine tuned settings is major. The consistant new content is really strong as well. I'm hoping they keep making new additions. I can completely see it being a huge franchise. My current level is 58 so I can't speak to a big chunk of the new content but I'm getting there.
gigastasio@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 28d
Lol I made one of those a couple months ago but I’m not brave enough to post it.
gajahmada@awful.systems · 1 pts · 27d
This thread give very strong "sharks are smooth" vibe lol. Thanks for your service.
TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works · 54 pts · 28d
It wasn't communist except in name lol
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -59 pts · 28d
Cope and seethe. Classic line I've seen for literally every instance of historically implemented large scale communism.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 50 pts · 28d
When in history has a stateless, classless, moneyless society been implemented at large scale?
timestatic@feddit.org · 6 pts · 28d
The stateless version is an ideal that will never be reached with so many people around lmao
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 28d
Unironically depends on how you define "state".
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 28d
csolisr@hub.azkware.net · 1 pts · 24d
The alternative is, of course, everyone becoming self-reliant hermits and very good luck with that
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -28 pts · 28d
Almost like its an impossible to achieve strictly idealistic and illogical pursuit. Interesting how thousands of individual communes are able to exist and thrive within capitalist states though.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 25 pts · 28d
Which is it? There can't be a "classic line" for historically implemented large scale communism if large scale communism is impossible to implement. You're contradicting yourself.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -14 pts · 28d
Every time something is labeled communism it's communism until atrocities happen. Then it wasn't really implemented. Both of my statements are true. Pigs can fly if you throw them off a cliff. But pigs never had wings so they could never really fly. That's because the initial statement is based on an impossibility centered around arbitrary vocabulary. Both statements are true.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 28d
Nah, that's nonsense word salad. Either large scale communism is impossible and thus has never been implemented, in which case the "classic line" is 100% true, or it is possible in which case your claim that it's impossible is wrong.
Either way you seem to have a pretty weak grasp of history and logic, so good luck out there 👍
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 28d
Lmfao what an embarrassing lack of reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.
sunbrrnslapper@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 28d
It almost suggests it can't be done!
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 28d
Almost
DoubleDongle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 28d
The problem is that proper communism is functionally impossible, and every crackpot despot in the last hundred years has wanted to get a little street credit with the working class by slapping socialism or communism on their brand.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 27d
Thats what I said
kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 27d
Proper communism has been done at a small scale many times, e.g. in Catalonia during the Spanish civil war. Its main point of failure has been insufficient ability to defeat violence from without.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 26d
Proper communism is functionally impossible at the present day. It is possible that after generations of widespread automation and gradual socialism, people on average may come to be able to exist communistically.
You are correct though that historical examples have typically just been slapping an ideological label on a system that was neither socialist nor communist in practice. I mean, communism doesn't even make semantic sense below the global level.
istdaslol@feddit.org · 40 pts · 28d
If capitalism is so great why did they never made a capitalism 2 ?
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 30 pts · 28d
It's almost released, we're at the late stage.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 9 pts · 28d
Capitalism 2 is just fascism.
scibra122@piefed.social · 6 pts · 28d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism_II
Checkmate atheists
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 28d
Fantastic point
jagermo@feddit.org · 34 pts · 28d
Oh, bro, the capitalists did. Bought up everything and scrapped it. One of the reasons the east is where it is today.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 28d
The east of where ?
sniggleboots@europe.pub · 8 pts · 28d
Eden 🤘
BenLeMan@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 28d
Hmm... where's Berlin again? 🤔
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 27d
Kazakhstan?
lokalhorst@feddit.org · 3 pts · 28d
Wdym??
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 28d
East of where?
Grass@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 28d
east of an arbitrary point on an approximately spherical object, where north and south are determined by a magnetic field that shifts over time, obviously...
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 28d
Magnetic ?
Grass@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 28d
look up how compass works I guess?
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 28d
Slovene85@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 28d
You stab the paper with the pointy bit and spin it around and draw a circle.
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 1 pts · 28d
east of the wall, obviously
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 27d
What wall?
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 1 pts · 27d
the one that this whole post is about?
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 26d
China?
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 28d
Communism as practiced so far sucks, and maybe it can't be done.
Capitalism practiced perfectly sucks for everyone but the filthy rich, eventually. That eventuality happens to be upon us now.
krisevol@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 28d
This happens to every world reserve currency because the population constantly vote for more debt. It's happened to every single one, and you see see it happening today. Everyone keeps voting for more debt and screaming she more access to debt.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 28d
A larger percentage of humans have a higher quality of life then any other time in history.
jpreston2005@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 28d
artificial scarcity exists by design
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 28d
I stick with organic
terranoid@lemmy.cafe · 15 pts · 28d
People literally just assume that to feel better, and quality of life is relative. There were probably some very happy times in the past where people enjoyed a lot more freedom and a lot more stars in the night sky.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -23 pts · 28d
That's a very funny, very ignorant way to think.
Tango@piefed.ca · 6 pts · 28d
One could argue that capitalism only did that because it needed to compete with communism, and that the more that capitalism eliminates its communist competition, the less it seems inclined to care about the working class.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 28d
What do you mean?
ComradePenguin@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 28d
It is important to note that they were going to a very strong welfare state, not so different than the most developed welfare states in Europe today.
So when I hear Americans saying this, I feel that it is important to note that they were not escaping to a American-like society/state, but a well developed liberal social democracy. Universal healthcare being one of many welfare services Americans do not have.
I would probably have done the same thing.
Btw: Not claiming you are American, this is just a pet peeve of mine
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 28d
How dare you claim I'm American.
tomi000@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 28d
Probably because there was no communist side^^
I know its a shitpost btw but we are still allowed to react to its content.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 27d
Thats the goal, yes.
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 18 pts · 28d
downvote because political agitation in the shitpost meme community. pls move to politics communities
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 27d
What do you mean?
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 7 pts · 27d
there's dedicated politics communities for that stuff. (i blocked almost all of them so i can't search for them rn)
pls no politics in the shitpost community.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 26d
You mean the community based around low effort photos, ragebait, inflammatory and trolling posts is an inappropriate place to post low effort inflammatory ragebait?
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 1 pts · 26d
there's a difference between a shitpost and a shit post
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 25d
Tell me about it
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 14 pts · 28d
Wait until you find out that the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" isn't a democracy.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 28d
Hold the damn phone, what are you talking about.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus · 12 pts · 28d
Well we're all finding out how well capitalism works I'd say. Dudes have more money than God and are buying up entire western countries and their politicians.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 12 pts · 28d
They did, only it was a little later. By then it had emptied out and you could squat, set up a studio, throw raves and such in prime central locations for free.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 28d
Sounds sick
DmMacniel@feddit.org · 10 pts · 28d
Way to fail to take context into account.
Rampsquatch@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 28d
Like the context of where this was posted?
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 27d
Shhhhh
snooggums@piefed.world · 1 pts · 28d
The context is the punchline.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 28d
Tell me about it.
DmMacniel@feddit.org · 10 pts · 28d
The people of the GDR were caged in and cut off of their folk in the very city that just happens to be in west-berlin, so of course people were happy for the iron curtain to fall.
What happened financially, economically and technological with east-germany was a crime ("Treuhand Skandal") and was the harbinger of the ugly head that is capitalism.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 28d
Sounds like I completely understand the context then and continue to hold my opinion.
DmMacniel@feddit.org · 4 pts · 28d
You probably think the Wall fell because of David Hasselhoff, eh?
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 28d
Didn't it?
king_comrade@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 27d
I read 'Stasi State or Socialist Paradise?: The German Democratic Republic and What Became of It' by Bruni de la Motte, John Green, and Seumas Milne. This book really challenged my western perspective on East Germany and highlighted the complex collapse that occurred. Something that isn't talked about is how many social and workers rights were taken away or reduced when the wall fell. Feminism in particular backslid tremendously as state support for female employment was removed and women as a result faced widespread unemployment.
I guess I just want to point out it wasn't a perfect black and white victory for the west, it was also a calamity that caused depression era style suffering for the people living there. I strongly recommend the book for anyone that enjoys circle jerking the fall of the Wall.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 26d
What do you mean?
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 28d
Even a conservative thinker argued before that people don't just go to where there are "free stuff", most people still value rule of law and freedom. Only few, if ever, risked their lives crossing the Caribbean to go to America not to Cuba, the latter which has free healthcare. Now that I think about it, African refugees fleeing post-colonial strife did not go to either Eastern Europe or USSR during the Cold war, they went to Europe and North America instead.
TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 28d
Marxism-Leninism is a dead-end.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 11 pts · 28d
Indeed. The "vanguard state" is a failed experiment. It inevitably gets into the control of corrupt officials who twist it to their own ends to magnify their own power (thus forming a new upper class of party officials who oppress the working class), and then it becomes self-perpetuating, unwilling to ever give up power and dissolve itself.
Future revolutions should take note and transition directly into a stateless, classless society.
sunbrrnslapper@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 28d
But they did keep the cute cross walk guys.
Zwiebel@feddit.org · 2 pts · 28d
No shit
canniest_tod@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 28d
Remind me which major country was the least affected by the Great Depression. ☭
Might be interesting to know, considering the direction the capitalist economy is taking now.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 28d
Kazakhstan
canniest_tod@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 27d
Oh yeah, Kazakhstan. One of the heaviest hitters on the world stage. Please return to facebook.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 26d
What's Facebook?
wraekscadu@vargar.org · -1 pts · 28d
Communism is a stateless, classless society. By definition, this means that there cannot be a "communist country", or a "communist state".
It actually isn't though. No true Scotsman is about pointing differences in UNRELATED characteristics to falsely reject provided examples. But "communist countries" are a violation of the clearly stated definition itself. Rejecting these examples is not fallacious.
Yes, countries in the eastern block can most definitely be classified as "socialist". Socialist policies generally center around "workers owning means of production". Meaning, most capital is owned by the working class.
NOW. What does one even mean by "owned by the working class"? Worker coops? Consumer coops? A singular state, owning capital? Different leftists have different positions on this.
But none of this really has much dirt on the idea of communism. Did the first French Republic after the revolution somehow show that republicanism, or democratic ideals were bad and that we should return to a monarchy? Not really. It was a revolution gone wrong.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 28d
I'm confused about what you mean?
wraekscadu@vargar.org · 2 pts · 28d
Sorry, it was more of a reply to the discussion going on in the comments rather than your post specifically.
But in short, demonstrating the failure of "communism" by giving examples of objectively NON communist places isn't logical if we're having a good faith conversation. Yes, certain socialist economic, political and social policies MUST be criticised straight into the ground.
HOWEVER, criticizing "communism" while pointing at North Korea, China, the USSR and so on is like criticizing democracy and republicanism by pointing at Athenian slaves and the totalitarianism of the first French Republic.
Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 27d
I have ensured there is zero good faith in any of these conversations