I grew up in the church, they will tell you that since a human(s) eradicated a disease, it was clearly god that worked through them. They always have a workaround bullshit answer
Yeah the omnipotent God bullshit breaks when a rainstorm floods a girls camp and kills a bunch of them. But then they claim the devil did it, or even victim blame in a creepy and fucked up way wondering if they were really pure Christians or not, or if there’s some mysterious upside or lesson.
I mean, we're supposed to be stewards according to the teachings, but all those dumbass children hear is, "hey this is yours ..." and just kinda space off the rest of everything said...
Sure, but the logic reveals literally nothing. I can create an entire Sims world for the sole reason to see if the "turn pink clothing in to green clothing" mod works. Does the fact that their existence had a reason actually mean a damn thing?
No rationale argument works on the irrational. The goal is to plant the seeds of rational thought. To appeal to people who aren't completely gone, yet. The meme works perfectly fine.
see, the thing is, they are not irrational. their logic (god works through humans) is completely self-consistent, they are just basing their logic on a different set of fundamentals than us. you can say that they are not scientific, you then would be completely correct. but they are not irrational, and that's the difficult part of changing people's mind.
That's what I don't understand about creationists. If you believe god made everything, what's wrong with believing God used evolution to do it? If the answer is "take the Bible literally", well that doesn't work because of all the shit in the Bible that they choose to ignore.
The premise of religion is designed to be bullet proof: god requires faith, don't test god. It's required that you have to believe it without proof. Why add things that are so far out there like "the devil/god made fossils as a trick to test your faith"?
Ethics exist independently of any deities even if they did exist.
If ethics didn't exist separately, and God is actually the source of good, then we would have a lot of logical paradoxes to solve.
For instance, let's assume God is who defines goodness and educates us on it, and goodness does not exist without God.
Thus, we recognize we don't have inherent ability to define what's good or bad. But that also means we can't prove God is good, because we already recognized only God can define what's good.
I might have butchered the logical fallacy a bit, logic is hard, but I remember it roughly being stated this way.
Number of times trans people knocked on my door to convincing me or my children into questioning my gender and changing it and my views on the topic, vs the number of religious people knock on my door to try to convince me that I'm living a life of sin, that my values are shit and that I'll burn in hell unless I convert to their religion.
Too many people gloss over the fact how insane it is that some people genuinely believe non-believers burn forever in a magic post death torture world. Like how can someone think that while talking with someone, and be like, aw sucks for them, glad I submit to this ancient chain email creepypasta.
It still baffles me when I realize someone thinks like that.
Going to heaven is the ultimate nepo and gambler move. Either you are born with the right religion, or you guess and join the right one out of hundreds, or you burn forever.
At the risk of being downvoted, religious laws were often used as methods of survival. Some groups bathed every so often, others had washing face as a rule, some didn't ate pork or shellfish as they would rot really quickly, some would not kill cows because they would lose a long lasting source of rich in nutrients milk or simply the power to plough field thus increasing food production.
So religion didn't cure anything miraculously but it sure helped the communities to survive and the scientific method took a while to be developed.
I'm an atheist but im also aware of the benefits religion had at some point. Remember that the guy that proposed washing hamds between autopsies and child birth was ridiculed.
You could not be more incorrect. The Bible is undeniably, explicitly pro-slavery. And Hebrews owned slaves (both Gentile slaves, and Hebrew slaves. Their own people. Classy).
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
They Old Testament were rules for the Hebrews, and in it there are rules for how to treat your Hebrew slaves. Huh.
“Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
And the New Testament is no better. John tells slaves to obey their masters. And Jesus, despite being absolutely steeped in slave culture, never once had anything negative to say about it. Pretty damning. Tacit approval by omission, if you ask me.
I was going to say religion is still necessary to control some people because there are some straight up sociopaths that only behave because of the fear of hell, but the fact that they totally believe they're one of Jesus' special little buddies makes me think that makes the issue even worse.
There is no evidence that this actually true. Religious leaders say this true, but then they turn around and cover atrocities that their religious underlings are doing, so they're themselves are the counterpoint to their own bullshit.
Had a buddy mention that his friend has cancer and was talking about "I don't think this doctor is good for me I'm thinking about switching to this other one" and he stopped her and said
"Well when are you going to give it to the real doctor. Jesus?" And went on to say basically don't even worry about it or explore other doctors just put it all in gods hands!
I've seen it around Africa. Usually related to where there's a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses. It dovetails well with scattered cultural prohibitions on anything to do with messing with the blood. No blood donations, no transfusions. Likely related to decades of HIV/AIDS concerns.
Edit: it's also why a lot of polio vaccines are oral in Africa. Less stigma.
So yeah, it is frustrating to see when they push against things like vaccines, but it's entirely understandable given the history of what has been done to these people again and again.
Oh, for sure. The way the British came in and told everyone to put their boobs away because it's immodest, and use formula made with well water to give your baby diarrhea early and maybe kill it, just breathtakingly idiotic.
You're only considering the diseases that God didn't prevent from existing in the first place. You can't expect him to stop all the potential diseases, can you?? He's not Superman!
Science is a social pursuit that shouldn't be credited solely to some priestly class of "scientists". How many people have prayed for the sick over the years? That's a major foundation for public support of scientific research.
How many people have prayed for the sick over the years? That’s a major foundation for public support of scientific research.
If you pray for someone to recover from being sick, and they do, it wasn't the prayer that healed them... They just... Got better. Like normal people sometimes do.
The prayer did nothing but fulfill your own delusions.
Is that really right? That they were Catolics in a society of Catholics does not mean that the invention of vaccines would have happened only because they were Catholics
Virulation - using a small amount of a virus to infect people to hopefully gain resistance - came to Europe through India. I'm 99% sure it wasn't Catholicism that was responsible.
. Galileo argued that this passage could not be used to support the traditional Earth-centred view of the universe at all. If we assume the universe to be as it was described by Claudius Ptolemy, the Sun's annual motion was a slow movement towards the East, so if God had commanded it to stop, the daily movement towards the West would no longer have been counteracted and as a result the day would actually have got slightly shorter rather than longer. However if we assume the universe to be as Copernicus described it, the Sun is at the centre and its rotation drives the rotation of all the planets. Thus if God had ordered the Sun to stop turning, everything would have stopped and the day would have been longer, just as the Bible describe."
Not in the sense of "oh, He's almighty, He can bend and break laws of nature at will, He just never ever does this in a controlled experiment to accentuate the faith element of religion".
Otherwise, they come in an extreme contradiction just about everywhere.
"Two departments of forensic medicine examined the sample independently. At Wrocław Medical University, Prof. Tadeusz Dobosz collected 15 samples and systematically excluded bacterial contamination — including Serratia marcescens, a bacterium that produces red pigment and has historically accounted for "bleeding host" reports — as well as fungal growth and chemical contamination. His team found fiber structures most similar to human heart tissue, though the results were described as inconclusive.
At the Pomeranian Medical University in Szczecin, Prof. Mirosław Parafiniuk conducted histopathological examination and DNA extraction. His analysis identified cross-striated muscle fragments most similar to human heart muscle, with alterations that often appear during agony. Mitochondrial DNA sequencing indicated human origin. Prof. Parafiniuk noted that the material was degraded and of microscopic size, and that such tissue could come from any mammal.
Dr. Barbara Engel, a cardiologist on the diocesan investigation commission, reported that UV microscopy with an orange filter identified the tissue as human myocardium. She noted that the blood found on the Host had not been tested, and that only human DNA had been confirmed."
I mean, true. But at worst, faith worsk as a placebo, forcing our minds and bodies to fight harder for some unkown reason. At best, there were unexplainable cases. May as well assume it's faith until proven otherwise.
No. At worst faith will be the reason a parent don't bring their child to an actual doctor, which causes unnecessary suffering or death of an innocent child. Faith should be countered everywhere and every time.
Nobody should be expected to believe in faith. Religions claim that something is true so it is on them to prove it. But it cannot be proven thus their claim should not be given due consideration. So the assumption is that science is real and religion is not.
There’s no way to scientifically measure faith or miracles as you’re describing. Saying “miracles do heal a lot” is an absurdly meaningless statement.
On the other hand, there is some evidence that people don’t work as hard at their own recovery when they believe people are praying for them, so believing in mumbo jumbo can actually hurt you.
The placebo effect is scientific and real. It's so well established that when they are testing medicines they test them against placebo and track the placebo healing rates, because the drug needs to statistically heal better than the placebo healed.
look, I'm not bothered by your faith as long as you (religious people) keep it to yourselfs. The issue is using this, which is YOUR belief, as excuse to deny science? as is happening around the world.
You know what, even though everyone is downvoting you, I sort of agree with you.
Persons faith can help him get better, physically and mentally. Either through placebo or peace of mind. Thats the whole shtick with people not being afraid cause god got their back, or people turning their life around because of accepting faith into their life.
What's unfortunate with religion is the tendency of other humans exploiting that faith to commit awful things.
Faith's IMO definitely a double-edge sword and very subjective, which is it's strength and weakness.
Yeeeep. Faith is a tool, especially if said faith is based on good intentions. It can be used for good (peace of mind, hospitality, feeding the poor, supporting communities), but even if faith itself was infallibly good, community aeound it simply will never be. And people who need to take shelter in faith often are more easily manipulated, sadly.
Please provide any example of a scientifically proven miracle. (Other than that one politician at the podium saying "If I'm wrong may Allah strike me down" and immediately dying of a heart attack)
143 Comments
_fryerDan@sh.itjust.works · 134 pts · 45d
I grew up in the church, they will tell you that since a human(s) eradicated a disease, it was clearly god that worked through them. They always have a workaround bullshit answer
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 78 pts · 45d
This is also true when Epsteiner auctions off a 13 year old
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 44d
Yeah the omnipotent God bullshit breaks when a rainstorm floods a girls camp and kills a bunch of them. But then they claim the devil did it, or even victim blame in a creepy and fucked up way wondering if they were really pure Christians or not, or if there’s some mysterious upside or lesson.
Johandea@feddit.nu · 33 pts · 45d
Given that that were true; their god also created the disease and is responsible for all the suffering. Their god is still at a net negative.
ITGuyLevi@programming.dev · 8 pts · 45d
Fucking-eh, he made every calamity that has befallen man, yet the shits still think it's a "good" plan.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 44d
So existence is a net negative in your book? I'm fairly pessimistic but that seems somewhat extreme.
cavitationfetishist2@quokk.au · 12 pts · 45d
They can't see a bad guy without trying to be them.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 8 pts · 45d
If that means those idiots at least get vaccinated then I will take that.
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 2 pts · 44d
And a lot of the scientists are atheists, so it clearly doesn't matter if they believe in god.
zloubida@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 45d
I mean if we accept the hypothesis that God exists, and that he created humans, he created them with a reason.
somethingsnappy@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 45d
That reason? Kill off every living thing god created.
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 45d
But didn’t he create it all for us though? Which then becomes a good excuse for us to consume it all.
LurkingLuddite@piefed.social · 3 pts · 45d
I mean, we're supposed to be stewards according to the teachings, but all those dumbass children hear is, "hey this is yours ..." and just kinda space off the rest of everything said...
Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
If God exists, I reckon we are a high school simulation project that he forgot and accidentally left running.
Fawkes@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 45d
Sure, but the logic reveals literally nothing. I can create an entire Sims world for the sole reason to see if the "turn pink clothing in to green clothing" mod works. Does the fact that their existence had a reason actually mean a damn thing?
zloubida@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 45d
No, I wanted to say: “he created them with the ability to reason”
nialv7@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 45d
exactly, that's why arguments like the one in this meme doesn't work
Folstar@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 45d
No rationale argument works on the irrational. The goal is to plant the seeds of rational thought. To appeal to people who aren't completely gone, yet. The meme works perfectly fine.
nialv7@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 45d
see, the thing is, they are not irrational. their logic (god works through humans) is completely self-consistent, they are just basing their logic on a different set of fundamentals than us. you can say that they are not scientific, you then would be completely correct. but they are not irrational, and that's the difficult part of changing people's mind.
yermaw@sh.itjust.works · 42 pts · 45d
I prayed for god to eradicate or decimate those diseases, and he in his infinite wisdom created scientists to do so.
Checkmate atheists.
Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 45d
That's what I don't understand about creationists. If you believe god made everything, what's wrong with believing God used evolution to do it? If the answer is "take the Bible literally", well that doesn't work because of all the shit in the Bible that they choose to ignore.
The premise of religion is designed to be bullet proof: god requires faith, don't test god. It's required that you have to believe it without proof. Why add things that are so far out there like "the devil/god made fossils as a trick to test your faith"?
db2@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 45d
BewareOfIdiot@nord.pub · 15 pts · 45d
You mean to say that the only thing keeping you from r*ping children is fear of God?
db2@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 45d
It's the only thing stopping them, and it's not even working.
stepan@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 45d
Is prison the only thing keeping you from committing crimes?
late_pessimistic@slrpnk.net · 14 pts · 45d
Ethics exist independently of any deities even if they did exist.
If ethics didn't exist separately, and God is actually the source of good, then we would have a lot of logical paradoxes to solve.
For instance, let's assume God is who defines goodness and educates us on it, and goodness does not exist without God.
Thus, we recognize we don't have inherent ability to define what's good or bad. But that also means we can't prove God is good, because we already recognized only God can define what's good.
I might have butchered the logical fallacy a bit, logic is hard, but I remember it roughly being stated this way.
Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz · 10 pts · 45d
Is this supposed to be in the prayer category?
JoeyHarrington@lemmy.ca · 23 pts · 45d
No this is the list of things religion has eradicated
BreadOven@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
Agreed, but sadly the religious people don't see it that way (as I'm sure you know, I just hate how disillusioned they are).
slothrop@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 45d
Social diseases.
cynar@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 44d
Given the title of the blank list is "Diseases eradicated by prayer" this list gets a lot funnier.
cavitationfetishist2@quokk.au · 1 pts · 45d
Well #10 is kind of a gimme; molestation is sort of their whole thing.
picklerick@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 45d
ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca · 30 pts · 45d
Number of times trans people knocked on my door to convincing me or my children into questioning my gender and changing it and my views on the topic, vs the number of religious people knock on my door to try to convince me that I'm living a life of sin, that my values are shit and that I'll burn in hell unless I convert to their religion.
qaz@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 45d
Too many people gloss over the fact how insane it is that some people genuinely believe non-believers burn forever in a magic post death torture world. Like how can someone think that while talking with someone, and be like, aw sucks for them, glad I submit to this ancient chain email creepypasta.
It still baffles me when I realize someone thinks like that.
cunnililgus@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 45d
Going to heaven is the ultimate nepo and gambler move. Either you are born with the right religion, or you guess and join the right one out of hundreds, or you burn forever.
WormEmperor@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 44d
I have been baffling over this very thing for many, many years. Always glad to see someone else put it into words as well.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 44d
[feeling grateful for the gate at my housing complex.]
Upperhand@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 45d
ogeist@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 44d
At the risk of being downvoted, religious laws were often used as methods of survival. Some groups bathed every so often, others had washing face as a rule, some didn't ate pork or shellfish as they would rot really quickly, some would not kill cows because they would lose a long lasting source of rich in nutrients milk or simply the power to plough field thus increasing food production.
So religion didn't cure anything miraculously but it sure helped the communities to survive and the scientific method took a while to be developed.
I'm an atheist but im also aware of the benefits religion had at some point. Remember that the guy that proposed washing hamds between autopsies and child birth was ridiculed.
Sorry for no funny haha :(
Snailpick42@lemmus.org · 8 pts · 44d
Jesus could've actually saved lives by telling people to wash their hands. Instead, we have this totally unnecessary blood sacrifice thing.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 44d
He could have also told people it's not ok to own slaves.
But apparently that was just a step too far.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 44d
Pretty sure jews didn't own slaves back then. It's a given that the roman enslavers are evil.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 44d
You could not be more incorrect. The Bible is undeniably, explicitly pro-slavery. And Hebrews owned slaves (both Gentile slaves, and Hebrew slaves. Their own people. Classy).
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21&version=ESV
They Old Testament were rules for the Hebrews, and in it there are rules for how to treat your Hebrew slaves. Huh.
-Exodus 21
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_slavery
And the New Testament is no better. John tells slaves to obey their masters. And Jesus, despite being absolutely steeped in slave culture, never once had anything negative to say about it. Pretty damning. Tacit approval by omission, if you ask me.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 44d
The Jews owned slaves back then; they weren't morally superior to the Romans in any way.
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
I was going to say religion is still necessary to control some people because there are some straight up sociopaths that only behave because of the fear of hell, but the fact that they totally believe they're one of Jesus' special little buddies makes me think that makes the issue even worse.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
There is no evidence that this actually true. Religious leaders say this true, but then they turn around and cover atrocities that their religious underlings are doing, so they're themselves are the counterpoint to their own bullshit.
DanceMomsSavedMe@lemmy.zip · 20 pts · 45d
Had a buddy mention that his friend has cancer and was talking about "I don't think this doctor is good for me I'm thinking about switching to this other one" and he stopped her and said
"Well when are you going to give it to the real doctor. Jesus?" And went on to say basically don't even worry about it or explore other doctors just put it all in gods hands!
I fucking hate religion.
Phoenix3875@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 45d
Yes, but…what about bringing back eradicated diseases with anti-vaxxing? Ain't that a miracle.
far_university1990@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 45d
Look at this poor bacteria. It deserve life too!
Tronn4@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 45d
Now do which diseases were brought back by religious nut jobs
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 45d
RFK JR is obssesed with people getting MEASLES, he should know since he resulted in 86 samoan childrens death
ceenote@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 45d
Well, I don't see too many demon-possessed people or witches around today, do you?
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 6 pts · 45d
I do have a witch friend, their population is tiny though
db2@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 45d
Or dragons.
Opisek@piefed.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 45d
And that's supposed to be a good thing?
Jimbo@pawb.social · 2 pts · 45d
I see some witches around sometimes
Zorque@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
Or tigers!
LurkingLuddite@piefed.social · 1 pts · 45d
Nope but seeing a lot of actual demons walking around, so... not sure the religious folks are winning.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 45d
That's why I light this and pray to St. Carl of Ithaca every night.
motruck@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 45d
The people downvoting this should respond with an info graphic. They can use yours.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 45d
To be fair, you wouldn’t know the diseases that are eradicated by prayer since they’re stripped from our timeline when looking backwards.
There could be dozens of them!
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 45d
Plenty of plagues started by religion, though.
kamen@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 45d
Sadly, no religious person is going to be moved by that.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 44d
Is it only US where religious people are like "vaccines are satan" or do other countries have them as much?
hansolo@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 44d
I've seen it around Africa. Usually related to where there's a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses. It dovetails well with scattered cultural prohibitions on anything to do with messing with the blood. No blood donations, no transfusions. Likely related to decades of HIV/AIDS concerns.
Edit: it's also why a lot of polio vaccines are oral in Africa. Less stigma.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 44d
People in Africa have every reason to be suspicious of white men coming in and injecting them with shit.
https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/medicine-empires-and-ethics-colonial-africa/2016-07
https://news.uoregon.edu/content/medical-researchers-africa-must-learn-past-prof-finds
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/4/8/medical-colonialism-in-africa-is-not-new
So yeah, it is frustrating to see when they push against things like vaccines, but it's entirely understandable given the history of what has been done to these people again and again.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 44d
Oh, for sure. The way the British came in and told everyone to put their boobs away because it's immodest, and use formula made with well water to give your baby diarrhea early and maybe kill it, just breathtakingly idiotic.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 44d
So it's USA again. Usual bullshit colonialism.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 44d
Oh no, it's locals that are JWs. But there's plenty of non-JW cultural reasons that push the idea of no injections.
Did you really just ignore the entire second half of the comment? The JW folks just have a more coherent "it says no in this book" logic.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 44d
Ortodoxy is catching up, via fake podcast bro priests.
SadSadSatellite@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 45d
Maybe in January of 2020 we should have told everyone to stay home and pray for three or four months.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world · 5 pts · 45d
What about the woke mind virus?
Prayer has a hundred percent cure rate for that.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 44d
Came here to say exactly this.
But, according to Fox News, even God can't eradicate the Woke Mind Virus. But that's because Yahweh loves cruelty.
whatsisface@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 45d
Which ones were eradicated & which ones were decimated? Getting rid of 10% of a disease doesn't sound super effective.
calmluck9349@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 44d
Covid19 didn't make the cut?
Bytemeister@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 44d
It is very much not eradicated.
Neither is measles.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 44d
...and?
Bytemeister@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
Well, tetanus is on the list too, and that is definitely still around.
Chicken pox still exists.
StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
I'm too tired to be mad about this or the changes that will happen to remind people of how important science is...
But I can always see in my minds eye, some future leader saying. "There's no way we could have known."
And that keeps me at a simmer.
DarkCloud@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 45d
As per science, prayer (or anything "metaphysical" can't be measured, as it has no physics or physical evidence)....
....so effects of prayer can't be measured/known. I guess that means it's theoretical, unprovable.
db2@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 45d
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed the same way.
DaGreenGobbo@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 45d
You're only considering the diseases that God didn't prevent from existing in the first place. You can't expect him to stop all the potential diseases, can you?? He's not Superman!
Tetragrade@leminal.space · 3 pts · 44d
Actually, I was praying for them to finish the vaccine. You're welcome.
ValarieLenin@midwest.social · 3 pts · 44d
Jokes in you we prayed for societal collaboration and progress. Profit and capitalism seems like a major side effect though 😵💫
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 44d
Prayer heals disease by editing history. Of course you're not aware of all the diseases it has cured!
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 44d
Leprosy?
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 44d
Leprosy still exists, though it is curable. And that cure has absolutely nothing to do with prayer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprosy#Treatment
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 43d
Jesus! I'm wrong again.
cavitationfetishist2@quokk.au · 2 pts · 45d
Prayer and the CIA, however, are gtrwat at spreading them and undermining these efforts.
StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 45d
Didn't prayer actually eradicate that dancing disease or whatever?
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 1 pts · 45d
Well that's a fundamental misunderstanding of science if I've ever seen one.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 44d
Science is a social pursuit that shouldn't be credited solely to some priestly class of "scientists". How many people have prayed for the sick over the years? That's a major foundation for public support of scientific research.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism
PhoenixDog@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
If you pray for someone to recover from being sick, and they do, it wasn't the prayer that healed them... They just... Got better. Like normal people sometimes do.
The prayer did nothing but fulfill your own delusions.
Eternal192@anarchist.nexus · 1 pts · 45d
Idiots need prayer because they can't comprehend science, simple as that.
stepan@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 45d
Some of the most prominent scientists were and still are religious
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -2 pts · 45d
EVERYONE can comprehend "science"
its not CTHULU
Science is too BROAD to be referred to like this
Rivermoonwolf@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 44d
tobebannedbygaymods@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 44d
Now let us see diseases created by science in comparison to prayer ......
diffaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 44d
What?
tobebannedbygaymods@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 42d
Wat ?
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -9 pts · 45d
you do realize that we wouldn't have invented vaccination and large scale vaccine production without Catholics, right?
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 45d
Is that really right? That they were Catolics in a society of Catholics does not mean that the invention of vaccines would have happened only because they were Catholics
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
This person is a rabid catholic, and idiot
I've made the mistake of trying to engage with them in good faith
It was a fool's errand
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 44d
You mean me or the guy above me?
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
Root
I was explaining their MO
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -1 pts · 44d
good faithNotEasyBeingGreen@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 45d
Virulation - using a small amount of a virus to infect people to hopefully gain resistance - came to Europe through India. I'm 99% sure it wasn't Catholicism that was responsible.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
This is the local noisy catholic idiot
Don't bother with them
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -2 pts · 44d
Virulation may be a precursor, but it is miles away from modern vaccination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_clergy_scientists
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
Oh, it's you again
How unfortunate.
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -10 pts · 45d
screams 14 year old atheist
Science is not contradictory to God
nullspace@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 44d
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -3 pts · 44d
religious figure and scientist are the same person
nullspace@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
I'm sure Galileo felt differently.
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -4 pts · 44d
Wasn't he a Catholic?
Read his letter to Castelli
and he never faced corporal punishment, he was under house arrest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre was one of the pioneers behind the Big Bang Theory
. Galileo argued that this passage could not be used to support the traditional Earth-centred view of the universe at all. If we assume the universe to be as it was described by Claudius Ptolemy, the Sun's annual motion was a slow movement towards the East, so if God had commanded it to stop, the daily movement towards the West would no longer have been counteracted and as a result the day would actually have got slightly shorter rather than longer. However if we assume the universe to be as Copernicus described it, the Sun is at the centre and its rotation drives the rotation of all the planets. Thus if God had ordered the Sun to stop turning, everything would have stopped and the day would have been longer, just as the Bible describe."
from Wikipedia
nullspace@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
Oh, yes, only imprisoned for heresy. My mistake.
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -3 pts · 44d
it was a house arrest
Allero@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 45d
Not in the sense of "oh, He's almighty, He can bend and break laws of nature at will, He just never ever does this in a controlled experiment to accentuate the faith element of religion".
Otherwise, they come in an extreme contradiction just about everywhere.
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -4 pts · 44d
https://nacn-usa.org/wp-content/uploads/Zugibe-scanned-reports-26-3-05-and-15-3-05-RON-ack.pdf
He performed many scientifically proven miracles
https://eucharisticmiracles.faith/miracle/pol-legnica
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 44d
"Two departments of forensic medicine examined the sample independently. At Wrocław Medical University, Prof. Tadeusz Dobosz collected 15 samples and systematically excluded bacterial contamination — including Serratia marcescens, a bacterium that produces red pigment and has historically accounted for "bleeding host" reports — as well as fungal growth and chemical contamination. His team found fiber structures most similar to human heart tissue, though the results were described as inconclusive.
At the Pomeranian Medical University in Szczecin, Prof. Mirosław Parafiniuk conducted histopathological examination and DNA extraction. His analysis identified cross-striated muscle fragments most similar to human heart muscle, with alterations that often appear during agony. Mitochondrial DNA sequencing indicated human origin. Prof. Parafiniuk noted that the material was degraded and of microscopic size, and that such tissue could come from any mammal.
Dr. Barbara Engel, a cardiologist on the diocesan investigation commission, reported that UV microscopy with an orange filter identified the tissue as human myocardium. She noted that the blood found on the Host had not been tested, and that only human DNA had been confirmed."
cosmos8188@leminal.space · 1 pts · 44d
Screams ageism
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 44d
You're stupid
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -1 pts · 44d
thats mean :(
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
No, it's accurate
You're a part of a cult and you can't shut the fuck up about it
If you were secure in your faith, you would keep it to yourself
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · -2 pts · 44d
if you were a true med student, you wouldnt give anyone medical advice
you wouldnt even try to stop them from eating nyquil chicken
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
Just fuck off
Demdaru@lemmy.world · -17 pts · 45d
Oh, when you look at miracles, they do heal a lot! Some of it is even scientifically proven IIRC. Human mind is a funny thing.
But in all cases, faith works on small scale, and quite often simply individual. So yeah...not even a start to science.
_fryerDan@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 45d
so you're saying it's not statistically significant then? makes sense, most farces aren't
Demdaru@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 45d
I mean, true. But at worst, faith worsk as a placebo, forcing our minds and bodies to fight harder for some unkown reason. At best, there were unexplainable cases. May as well assume it's faith until proven otherwise.
In all cases, statistically insignificant xD
Johandea@feddit.nu · 7 pts · 45d
No. At worst faith will be the reason a parent don't bring their child to an actual doctor, which causes unnecessary suffering or death of an innocent child. Faith should be countered everywhere and every time.
Demdaru@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 44d
Didn't think about it at the time...welp, true. Except the countered part.
JoeyHarrington@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 45d
Nobody should be expected to believe in faith. Religions claim that something is true so it is on them to prove it. But it cannot be proven thus their claim should not be given due consideration. So the assumption is that science is real and religion is not.
We may as well believe in science I guess.
Demdaru@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 45d
What even is science if not a cult of cause and effect?
JoeyHarrington@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 45d
This may help answer your question
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/science
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
There you go
Showing your true colours
You're stupid.
Jimbabwe@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 45d
There’s no way to scientifically measure faith or miracles as you’re describing. Saying “miracles do heal a lot” is an absurdly meaningless statement.
On the other hand, there is some evidence that people don’t work as hard at their own recovery when they believe people are praying for them, so believing in mumbo jumbo can actually hurt you.
forbiddencherry@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 45d
The placebo effect is scientific and real. It's so well established that when they are testing medicines they test them against placebo and track the placebo healing rates, because the drug needs to statistically heal better than the placebo healed.
MissJinx@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
look, I'm not bothered by your faith as long as you (religious people) keep it to yourselfs. The issue is using this, which is YOUR belief, as excuse to deny science? as is happening around the world.
cunnililgus@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 45d
You know what, even though everyone is downvoting you, I sort of agree with you. Persons faith can help him get better, physically and mentally. Either through placebo or peace of mind. Thats the whole shtick with people not being afraid cause god got their back, or people turning their life around because of accepting faith into their life.
What's unfortunate with religion is the tendency of other humans exploiting that faith to commit awful things.
Faith's IMO definitely a double-edge sword and very subjective, which is it's strength and weakness.
Demdaru@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
Yeeeep. Faith is a tool, especially if said faith is based on good intentions. It can be used for good (peace of mind, hospitality, feeding the poor, supporting communities), but even if faith itself was infallibly good, community aeound it simply will never be. And people who need to take shelter in faith often are more easily manipulated, sadly.
cunnililgus@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 44d
Fully agreed.
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 44d
Please provide any example of a scientifically proven miracle. (Other than that one politician at the podium saying "If I'm wrong may Allah strike me down" and immediately dying of a heart attack)
_fryerDan@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 45d
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 45d
Don't breed.