Statistically speaking, yes, comparing the group who had had COVID vs the group that was vaccinated, in subsequent COVID infections those who had had the disease were less likely to die.
Because those in the infection group who were most likely to die of COVID had already died. Turns out surviving COVID is a good indicator of your ability to survive COVID.
The statistics on unvaccinated first-time COVID vs vaccinated first-time COVID tells a very different story.
A family member boasts that covid wasn't that bad, because he survived it, he doesn't realize that if he didn't, he wouldn't be here making this argument. When bringing up, that his brother in law died he makes an argument that he just had cold and hospital killed him on purpose (conveniently forgetting the fact that you just don't go to a hospital with a cold)
While, yes, there's survivorship bias in such statements I think the stats also showed the chances of contracting a second infection was also lower than a vaccinated person contracting a first infection.
That's not really surprising. A vaccinated person's immune system has just seen a single protein, whereas a COVID survivor's immune system has been trained on the whole virus. I would expect it to perform better.
...but the risk of infection Vs vaccination can't be ignored.
no, but he tried to certify himself by creating his own accredidation program when he became an MD for his specialty, i think opthamology. he was a scam artist from the start.
Yeah, infection is the best protection... If you survive your first infection, which an awful lot of people didn't, and many more still developed life long disability as a result.
So I think I speak for most when I say I'd rather take the vaccine, so my chances of dying/being hospitalised were way lower if I ever got the real thing.
Its literally the idea behind a vaccine anyway. You are deliberately infected with something that mimics a marker for the virus (or sometimes a deactivated virus) in order for your body to deal with it before it fucking kills you.
These idiots are arguing for vaccines without even knowing it.
That's the idea behind Edward Jenner's smallpox vaccine, but only a few modern vaccines give live pathogens, or even neutralised pathogens as vaccines.
The COVID RNA vaccines (e.g. Pfizer/Moderna) contained messenger RNA that gave instructions to your body to construct proteins found on the surface of the COVID virus (specifically the spike proteins). Your immune system would then train itself on them.
You're not getting a small dose of virus, or even any parts of the virus, dead or alive. You're getting instructions on how to make a substance that the virus also contains. It's very impressive tech, but I do worry that it could be given blanket approval post-covid. The RNA instructions are just a delivery mechanism. What matters, from a safety point of view, is what the instructions tell the body to make.
There's so much mis/dis-information around this stuff I think it's worth being precise. Otherwise you get people arguing with each other where neither side is correct and it's strawmen all round.
I get it. We've all been taught vaccines are all variations on a theme, but I think most have taken the wrong bit. As you say, the theme is training the immune system on something. It's not where that something comes from.
There's people who are scared of vaccines because "they're rewriting our DNA". It's crap, but it's because someone heard about mRNA. They've misunderstood and become alarmed. That then starts spreading. Telling people "You've misunderstood this new amazing tech" lands a lot better than "That's not even how vaccines work" and then explaining something that isn't the COVID vaccine.
I swear these grifters, if enough of their fan base dies too fast, will suddenly call it "The Trump Money shot" because vaccine is a dirty word for them.
It's like saying, "The best way to defend yourself from a fight is to intentionally provoke others, then let your ass get kicked when it happens."
Whereas getting vaccinated would be, "Learn self-defense beforehand," with masking and social distancing being, "and avoid getting into fights in the first place."
If it were a non mutating virus then getting into one fight would give you life long punch deflection. But COVID changes to rapidly making infection or vaccination only about 6 months of fight free
My favorite is that these chucklefucks treat COVID like it was all Dr Fauci's fault, as if every major country in the world didn't also have vaccine strategies in place. The moment you explain the rest of the world doing it better than America, they stare at you like deer in headlights.
The core problem with all this anti-vax bullshit, is that Vaccines worked..and they worked too well.
We have entire generations now that have never seen the terrible consequences of Polio, Smallpox, Measels (Although thats quickly changing, Go America! /s), or any other disease thats been eliminated (at least at one point.. Go America! /s) from popular concern and conscious.
and as a result, they have no idea what crippling horrors that they have been, and are actively, protected from.
and because humans are, generally, stupid and irrational and a lot of them lack the capability to think about anything beyond what they can see within 3 feet around them, they scream about the vaccines and call them evil because they have absolute no experience with the alternative, which is the diseases themselves.
Yep.. its the same with almost all regulations, too.
You know, those pesky things conservatives and big business say stifle innovation and reduce money making.
and its true, they reduce innovation and reduce money making.. because it stops them from cheaply dumping toxic waste in drinking water, then innovatively selling us filters to clean out the toxic waste.
It stops them from innovating by putting powdered chalk in spoiled milk to whiten it back up, to save profits from loss and sell what would have been losses to the public.
It stops them from mixing coal dust in pepper.
It forces them to provide safety equipment to workers, and cover injuries caused on the job, rather than innovating by letting workers get black lung and be fired once they can no longer work, to die miserable deaths.
Regulations are to the benefit of workers, customers, and the general public. Which is why conservatives and big business hate them, because keeping the public safe and having healthy markets means taking a small portion of money away from million/billionaires.
So the good folk of Kentucky are represented by one dead senator and the other just brain-dead. I wonder what their internal monologue is convincing themselves that this is something that actually succeeds in "owning the libs"
"On Friday night in Iowa, Paul faced likely voters in the state's leadoff nominating caucuses for the first time since answering questions about a measles outbreak centered in California. Paul said Monday that he had heard about "many tragic cases" of children who got vaccines and ended up with "profound mental disorders."
That assertion has no basis in medical research, and Paul clearly was still upset on Friday about how his comments had been received"
The tweet isn’t any kind of “own.” It doesn’t contradict Rand Paul. Everyone here thinking like this is some really clever gotcha moment … they’re just kind of telling on themselves.
Again. Rand Paul has stomped around for over a decade telling people to be wary of vaccines, that they cause autism, mental disorders and that they're overall unhealthy. Meanwhile he is vaccinated.
I don't know why you're being straight up frustratingly stupid about it.
The point is whenever Rand Paul says fuck all about vaccines the first thing to note is HE IS VACCINATED. He's a hypocrite and he is trying to grift people.
He knows there are Americans who have been convinced by religion and lack of education and people like him to think vaccines aren't good, so he's preying on that WHILE HE IS VACCINATED.
He would not be allowed to do the things he does if he wasn't. It doesn't matter what he says in this tweet, he should shut the fuck up about vaccinations because the rest of us know he's lying.
There is no reason to ever listen to this man about vaccinations.
It's not meant to be a gotcha, it's not meant to SLAM or OWN or ANNIHILATE Rand Paul. I'm not Ben Shitpiro. Again, if he says fuck all about vaccines know, he is vaccinated and he's trying to grift.
Disease mutates if left to eat through the masses. It will mutate into something that kills them too. What an idiotic idea, I struggle to believe these people actually think this way.
I think the problem was rooted in public trust. Many people were required to vaccine due to their work or where they lived and vaccine manufacturers were largely sheltered from product lawsuits. Putting these two things together has a corrosive effect on public trust.
What injuries? Who has been denied a case here? The standard requiring documented negligence seems completely reasonable, these are highly studied and highly documented items.
If you ride an elevator and you get a headache, you can't just sue the elevator manufacturer. That elevator was inspected at every step and was known to work, there is a very high bar for you to prove that the elevator caused the headache. Bringing lawyers in is a waste of everyone's time and money. Vaccines, even the coronavirus vaccines, are 100x as safe as those elevators.
Americans are over-litigious and uneducated about medicine.
It's not so much that Americans are uneducated.... it's more that a large portion have developed a resistance to being educated....one could perhaps say they're vaccinated against knowledge.
Didn't the earlier AstraZeneca vaccine eventually get pulled due to possible links to Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis? Ultimately, it doesn't matter. A lot of people are going to be upset at having a mandate when recourse to justice if the vaccine goes wrong is pulled before the effects are fully studied.
As far as I can tell, that vaccine wasn't pulled because it was unsafe, it was recommended against because there were other competing vaccines that were safer and more effective.
Its like how they don't sell cars without backup cameras anymore. Its not like the cars were unsafe without backup cameras (actually all cars are unsafe), but in that rare chance (basically 0.0001% if we're continuing the analogy), it can save a life by using a car with a camera.
I think people have a poor understanding of what the terms "fully studied" and "extremely rare side effects" mean. In colloquial speak, these vaccines were "fully studied". For every person who had a vaccine "accident", there were millions whose lives were saved by the vaccine.
People are willing to take huge risks for convenience (cars), but they're unwilling to trade away huge risk in return for a microscopic risk (vaccines).
Well, no, conservatives operate on 'rules for thee not for me'. There's no reason to assume Paul was vaccinated based on events he attended requiring vaccination.
I don't doubt that he was, but you can't draw a line between the things listed in the post.
Infection is the best protection? Alright then Rand, please get infected with HIV so that you may be protected from it in the future. Better yet, expose yourself to Marburg virus so you’ll never have to use a vaccine ever again. Doesn’t sound so smart now does it?
If infection was the best protection...then why did 7 million people die? Was it the best protection for them? What about the other deaths caused indirectly? What is it like 20-30 million deaths? They know what they're saying. Fucking evil fucks.
The right is trying to play off people's fears because of course no one wants to take their kid to the doctor and have them cry afterward. It's easy to convince someone who's already emotional, confused, and afraid that there's a boogieman behind it.
Yeah it's almost like it's reality, something you guys enjoy holding hands and pretending "isn't real" 24/7 together eh
https://www.c-span.org/program/senate-committee/dr-anthony-fauci-testifies-on-origins-of-covid-19-pandemic/683492
Been reality since day 1 and now even here 6.5 years later with this proof right in front of your eyes you continue to pretend this isn't true because "we don't want it to be" / "it would mean those people we dislike were correct all along"
Delusion, now be sure to ban me for disagreeing and providing evidence as to why so your echo chamber remains strong
Also FYI most people in the world live in reality unlike you all and make their decisions upon that (see: the current president of the united states, who also won the popular vote), can't wait for you to emotionally jump on my comment with zero counter arguments as you're unable to refute anything I've said <3 just hit the down arrow by my name and scroll down QUICK ! ! !
Says a dude who will never have even a quarter of what the average baby boomer had at their age, like 7+ children, a home at 19 years old, economic stability, or at least a happy family of four without a college degree. Why? Are they smarter, work harder, or what?
Why should we listen to a dumbass who cannot make even a quarter of what any of my baby boomer grandparents made at your age, one had 7 children, the other 10, and one of them didn't go to college? Both are obsessed with the Bible. Both have massive homes and had a life full of activity and ignorant happiness with their children.
What about you? You keep crying about not being able to afford the Steam Machine. RAM memory. Housing. Rent. Healthcare. Videogames at their normal price. Enough protein, meat, good food. Going out to the cinema anytime you wanted, any restaurant. A home at 19 years old like the average baby boomer did, instead, the average American Citizen is getting their first home at 54 years old today. The fertility rate went from 7+ to 1.5, and it isn't because of the lies the Jeffrey Epstein Class told you, like blaming women getting jobs and becoming independent, or that this economical gap is normal.
You are just a moron who benefits the Jeffrey Epstein Class by trying to distract people with Dr. Fauci. You want people to keep looking sideways instead of up.
Your president is a pedophile, and him and his family and every single one of his followers will pay for the great amount of pain and suffering you've brought upon innocent people for so long. Being anonymous in the Internet won't protect you anymore. It's so easy to spot insane dipshits like you in real life, and open their heads to the truth.
At the end of the day, is it thanks to your friction and stupidity that democratic socialists like Zohran Mandami and Claire Valdez are conquering your country from within. You will have free healthcare, affordable housing and more education whether you like it or not. People like Zohran will be your future president.
You are a broke pedophile apologist who spends his days commenting pro-MAGA retarded shit online instead of spending time with your friends or your children. You're already dead. Why should we listen to you at all, y'know?
My new copypasta thanks bro, the fact you are UPVOTED for writing a literal fanfiction about my real life when you have absolutely no idea who I am and my circumstances is fucking hilarious (who the absolute fuck wants that piece of shit Steam Machine LOL)
People truly place their delusions over reality on here lmfao "This guy is genuinely mentally insane typing an essay of literal nonsense, but he hates those people and that poster who I hate too... so I'll upvote him anyway in agreement YEAH!"
Also you failed the test I literally spelled out for you:
can’t wait for you to emotionally jump on my comment with zero counter arguments as you’re unable to refute anything I’ve said <3
So explain to me why would I respond to any part of your strawman schizobabble when you have failed to address my original argument, Fauci tried to force these useless dangerous '''vaccines''' that everyone with our eyes open back then knew were bullshit FROM DAY 1 and here he is 6.5 years later terrified to answer questions about how he knew all along and was actively dismissing evidence of them being bullshit
It's so weird how all of us who never took that shit are all still alive and totally fine today, compared to the massive rise of 'died suddenly' videos whilst they were actively being pushed on people...! "We're just not sure what's causing this!" on the news for years XD
If Capitalism or Trump love you so much, how come he is not giving you even a quarter of what the average baby boomer had at your age yet? Statistics do not lie. If you're actually an outlier, why are you here instead of spending time with your children? We should just eat you and return everything you stole from the working class back.
You do not hate the Jeffrey Epstein Class, you benefit and support it by attacking people like Dr. Fauci. You want to help them distract people with nonsense, so they can continue raping and bombing children. If that's not your goal, it is what you are doing, regardless, so. Lock in, you moronic MAGA. You are going to hell automatically for helping pedophiles.
To be honest, it's better for me to leave people like you in the darkness. Keep blaming Dr. Fauci and keep hunting innocent people down. It was thanks to people like you that most of my republican relatives died to Covid because they said the exact same shit as you. Covid was good for that only: at killing a bunch of stubborn ignorant republicans who think they knew better than thousands of doctors around the globe.
You are still a proud and loud antivaxxer in 2026, to be honest, I don't need to do anything. You will get yourself killed and that's fine, it's your choice. I took the vaccine and I am still waiting to die as retards like you told me I would, but it's been 6 years, I am currently learning how to create MetaHumans in Unreal Engine 5.8, and my English grammar is still superior than yours, and I am just a Mexican who has never visited the USA. Your brain is mush and filled with paranoia, making up nonsense about "suddenly died" videos and what not just to hype yourself with lies.
You are already food for worm. You have nothing of value to offer to humanity. You are boring, broke, and also evil and stupid. You are trash, and people deserve better than trash. People need to take the trash out and fix their country already. Or do not, so numbers like these can stay the way they are:
During Covid:
US - 3,596 deaths per million with a population size of 335 million.
Mexico - 2,605 deaths per million with a population size of 130 million.
China - 85 deaths per million with a population size of 1.42 billion, 4x times the US', which should’ve been harder to administrate or manage, but they did it efficiently anyway.
Which seems more responsible there? And by A LOT.
Every year, to general conflict (rates per 100,000 inhabitants):
US - 20,000± people - rate of 5.7 due to its population size.
Mexico - 30,000± people - rate of 24.85.
China - 7,157 people - rate of 0.502, incredibly impressive for a country 4x times the size in population.
UK - 684 people - rate of 1.14.
Canada - 874 people - rate of 2.27.
My favorite, this one always makes Americans go “no way that’s true. But the way they treat gays over there!!!”
Saudi Arabia - 285 people - rate of 0.795.
Qatar - 2 people - rate of 0.074
Syria - 463 people - rate of 2.07
Which are safer? Qatar, China and Saudi Arabia.
Now, according to World Population Review, Our World Data, the UN and more regarding wealth inequality, the higher the number, the worse (Gini coefficient, 0 would mean everyone has the exact same amount of cash, so, expect it to be a minimum of 20~):
South Africa - 63.0
Brazil - 51.6
Zimbabwe - 50.3
Mexico - 43.5
US - 41.8
China - 35.7
UK - 32.4
Japan - 32.3
Sweden - 31.6
Iraq, bro - 29.8
Norway - 26.9
United Arab Emirates - 26.4
India - 25.5
Slovakia, the lowest, most “communist one” as Americans say - 24.1
Couldn’t find the Gini for Saudi Arabia, but I am sure it’s similar to its neighbors, which dingle around the mid 20s or low 30s.
TLDR; Keep being yourself. It's exactly Americans like you that are helping Socialism win. You are so fucking stupid, you cannot even make a quarter of what any of my baby boomer grandparents made at your age. And you still support and benefit the people who stole your potential away. You already lost.
While this could be based on bad faith we cannot deny how a cover up was happening, and how mishandling of the pandemic caused more death.
It was very clear how this was being studied actively in a poorly protected lab, and highly possible that it could a soptage event or an accedident. Yet they continue to dismmiss these suggestions as being lies and conspiracy theory.
I recall posting published academic papers from the lab around October before the cases start coming up discussing continuing research of the virus and getting banned on Reddit. That how crazy it was.
People also need to question how senior homes were mismanaged that causes unnecessary deaths/murder due to neglect.
Same with Nurses and medical staff who suffer due to lack of organization and oversight.
Also for vaccine, in a capitalist society that values money over anything else, after a major event like that, there should be national committee in every country investigating CEO and major shareholder and any communication between any parties that made tons of money.
Assuming Fauci is innocent just because Republicans are the one going after him is stupid. The two party system should be able to hold each other accountable. If he didn't want to handle the investigation, he should have quit, taking the position comes with risks of being investigated for mishandling of situations and he should be ready for it.
The main problem here, is that, while Republicans doing their job, even as misdirection or in bad faith, the Democrats are not holding Republicans to the same standards, best they do is continuing where the Republican left.
So yes this is good to see and hope more details comes out.
Fauci is definitely innocent. Not sure where you even find grounds to argue that.
I agree with a lot of what you say but acting like fauci is cobra commander or something and controls all these strings is nuts. I think it was something like 50,000 a year for 8 years that went towards this specific lab which fauci had the authority to apply alongside a ton of other labs.
Yet they continue to dismmiss these suggestions as being lies and conspiracy theory.
Because at this point, as far as I can tell, this is still just baseless speculation. It could have been that, but it could have been aliens, we don't have any actual evidence to base any of it on, hence it being easy to dismiss as a conspiracy theory.
People also need to question how senior homes were mismanaged that causes unnecessary deaths/murder due to neglect.
Same with Nurses and medical staff who suffer due to lack of organization and oversight.
Yes, this is every damn day. Before COVID, during the height of the pandemic, and every day since. None of that is particularly relevant to COVID, Fauci, or vaccines. Profit seeking interests preying on the weak without sufficient repurcussions.
Assuming Fauci is innocent just because Republicans are the one going after him is stupid.
We presume innocence because not one bit of evidence has been presented. Like this accusation that we should have just all gotten infected because 'everyone knew' that was better than getting vaccinated. Which goes against mountains of evidence showing that people were way better off with the vaccinne, with the most 'damming' credible outcome being that maybe it was a waste of time for people under 20, but only evident with hindsight.
The problem is simply that the pandemic was an embarrassment for Trump, and would have been even if he handled everything right (which he didn't), but they need to scapegoat someone so they scapegoat Fauci for no apparent reason.
Because at this point, as far as I can tell, this is still just baseless speculation. It could have been that, but it could have been aliens, we don’t have any actual evidence to base any of it on, hence it being easy to dismiss as a conspiracy theory.
Depend on how you look at thing as I recall:
They were literally studying the different types of bat viruses
They publish an article of similar covid like viruses and the similarities with HIV around October/November
If I recall correctly the Lab was not categories to be allowed to work on such viruses
I think these three points are not baseless. Now we add other points:
WHO were not allowed to do independent research, and I think UK and France criticized the report.
US Intelligence suggested a few worker got sick before December, although it was Trump administration but Biden never released the full report.
and I think in the note Fauci point out that 10 out of 12 don't believe it is natural. Although is not clear who they are but I assume they virologist at the time.
101 Comments
TheRealKuni@piefed.social · 191 pts · 2d
Statistically speaking, yes, comparing the group who had had COVID vs the group that was vaccinated, in subsequent COVID infections those who had had the disease were less likely to die.
Because those in the infection group who were most likely to die of COVID had already died. Turns out surviving COVID is a good indicator of your ability to survive COVID.
The statistics on unvaccinated first-time COVID vs vaccinated first-time COVID tells a very different story.
This kind of bullshit frustrates me so much.
reddig33@lemmy.world · 76 pts · 2d
Long covid is a thing. And it sucks. I’d rather be vaccinated than end up with long covid.
TheRealKuni@piefed.social · 45 pts · 2d
I’d also rather be vaccinated than dead from my first round of COVID. But yes, I know some people suffering from long COVID and it absolutely sucks.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 2d
Something something B17s.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 1d
"Best" if you exclusively optimize for immunity in living patients.
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 1d
No reason works on these people.
A family member boasts that covid wasn't that bad, because he survived it, he doesn't realize that if he didn't, he wouldn't be here making this argument. When bringing up, that his brother in law died he makes an argument that he just had cold and hospital killed him on purpose (conveniently forgetting the fact that you just don't go to a hospital with a cold)
wewbull@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 1d
While, yes, there's survivorship bias in such statements I think the stats also showed the chances of contracting a second infection was also lower than a vaccinated person contracting a first infection.
That's not really surprising. A vaccinated person's immune system has just seen a single protein, whereas a COVID survivor's immune system has been trained on the whole virus. I would expect it to perform better.
...but the risk of infection Vs vaccination can't be ignored.
twjolson@lemmy.world · 69 pts · 2d
We tried immunity via infection. Over a million people died.
crandlecan@mander.xyz · 32 pts · 2d
But the survivors did great! You Demoncrats keep hiding the FACTS and SCIENCE 😮💨
twjolson@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2d
Did Rand Paul trying checking under the couch cushions? Everyone I cant find something, it's under the couch cushion.
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 1d
If he ever invited Vance to the house, I would just never look under couch cushions ever again if I was him.
Triumph@fedia.io · -7 pts · 2d
The weak get culled, and what remains is stronger.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 2d
What remains is stronger than what was culled, but are sicker than before the culling started.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Triumph@fedia.io · 0 pts · 1d
Did I really have to put a /s on that?
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 2 pts · 1d
Yeah, sadly people says that bullshit unironically
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Yes.
First time?
Triumph@fedia.io · 2 pts · 1d
Back in my day, we didn't have /s, and we liked it.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Problem being is the world is full of idiots that would sincerely believe in that statement. And would take your sarcastic take as validation.
It's depressing, but even obviously stupid statements aren't that obviously stupid to some...
crandlecan@mander.xyz · -1 pts · 1d
Nah. It works both ways 🫣
iN8sWoRLd@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Yeah, remember that which doesn't kill you, maims you.
Triumph@fedia.io · 2 pts · 23h
And that which doesn't maim you gives you chronic pain.
yesman@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 2d
Has Rand Paul ever gotten a cold? He must have only done so once and now has lifetime immunity.
I remember the time I got the flu. Boy was it awful, but I'm so glad I can't ever get it again.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 1d
no, but he tried to certify himself by creating his own accredidation program when he became an MD for his specialty, i think opthamology. he was a scam artist from the start.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 8h
And this is all fine with the AMA. He is still licenced.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 1d
Rand Paul needed to create his own certification board in order to practice medicine.
Th4tGuyII@fedia.io · 33 pts · 2d
Yeah, infection is the best protection... If you survive your first infection, which an awful lot of people didn't, and many more still developed life long disability as a result.
So I think I speak for most when I say I'd rather take the vaccine, so my chances of dying/being hospitalised were way lower if I ever got the real thing.
SolSerkonos@piefed.social · 4 pts · 1d
Having gotten the vaccine, and later gotten Covid.. that it would have been way worse is scary.
SethTaylor@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 1d
"Infection is the best protection" sounds fucking crazy
I get the context, I get the point
But it's still crazy
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 1d
Its literally the idea behind a vaccine anyway. You are deliberately infected with something that mimics a marker for the virus (or sometimes a deactivated virus) in order for your body to deal with it before it fucking kills you.
These idiots are arguing for vaccines without even knowing it.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 1d
That's the idea behind Edward Jenner's smallpox vaccine, but only a few modern vaccines give live pathogens, or even neutralised pathogens as vaccines.
The COVID RNA vaccines (e.g. Pfizer/Moderna) contained messenger RNA that gave instructions to your body to construct proteins found on the surface of the COVID virus (specifically the spike proteins). Your immune system would then train itself on them.
You're not getting a small dose of virus, or even any parts of the virus, dead or alive. You're getting instructions on how to make a substance that the virus also contains. It's very impressive tech, but I do worry that it could be given blanket approval post-covid. The RNA instructions are just a delivery mechanism. What matters, from a safety point of view, is what the instructions tell the body to make.
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Well yes, I was simplifying for the sake of the layman. Either way youre using a marker for your immune system to target.
I will admit Ive been out of the game, so to speak, long before mRNA vaccines became available so I cant comment on the risks.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 1d
There's so much mis/dis-information around this stuff I think it's worth being precise. Otherwise you get people arguing with each other where neither side is correct and it's strawmen all round.
I get it. We've all been taught vaccines are all variations on a theme, but I think most have taken the wrong bit. As you say, the theme is training the immune system on something. It's not where that something comes from.
There's people who are scared of vaccines because "they're rewriting our DNA". It's crap, but it's because someone heard about mRNA. They've misunderstood and become alarmed. That then starts spreading. Telling people "You've misunderstood this new amazing tech" lands a lot better than "That's not even how vaccines work" and then explaining something that isn't the COVID vaccine.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 1d
I swear these grifters, if enough of their fan base dies too fast, will suddenly call it "The Trump Money shot" because vaccine is a dirty word for them.
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
It's like saying, "The best way to defend yourself from a fight is to intentionally provoke others, then let your ass get kicked when it happens."
Whereas getting vaccinated would be, "Learn self-defense beforehand," with masking and social distancing being, "and avoid getting into fights in the first place."
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d
If it were a non mutating virus then getting into one fight would give you life long punch deflection. But COVID changes to rapidly making infection or vaccination only about 6 months of fight free
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 1d
My favorite is that these chucklefucks treat COVID like it was all Dr Fauci's fault, as if every major country in the world didn't also have vaccine strategies in place. The moment you explain the rest of the world doing it better than America, they stare at you like deer in headlights.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 1d
they still believe china created it.
razzazzika@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 1d
They believe FAUCI created it in a secret lab in Wuhan China.
plyth@feddit.org · 1 pts · 16h
America financed experiments there that weren't officially classified as gain of function but are in a gray area.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 1d
The core problem with all this anti-vax bullshit, is that Vaccines worked..and they worked too well.
We have entire generations now that have never seen the terrible consequences of Polio, Smallpox, Measels (Although thats quickly changing, Go America! /s), or any other disease thats been eliminated (at least at one point.. Go America! /s) from popular concern and conscious.
and as a result, they have no idea what crippling horrors that they have been, and are actively, protected from.
and because humans are, generally, stupid and irrational and a lot of them lack the capability to think about anything beyond what they can see within 3 feet around them, they scream about the vaccines and call them evil because they have absolute no experience with the alternative, which is the diseases themselves.
late_pessimistic@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 19h
Yep. In this case: rules are written in blood, yet some people forget why they are here in the first place.
Only to inevitably find out "holy shit, now i get it"
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 10h
Yep.. its the same with almost all regulations, too.
You know, those pesky things conservatives and big business say stifle innovation and reduce money making.
and its true, they reduce innovation and reduce money making.. because it stops them from cheaply dumping toxic waste in drinking water, then innovatively selling us filters to clean out the toxic waste.
It stops them from innovating by putting powdered chalk in spoiled milk to whiten it back up, to save profits from loss and sell what would have been losses to the public.
It stops them from mixing coal dust in pepper.
It forces them to provide safety equipment to workers, and cover injuries caused on the job, rather than innovating by letting workers get black lung and be fired once they can no longer work, to die miserable deaths.
Regulations are to the benefit of workers, customers, and the general public. Which is why conservatives and big business hate them, because keeping the public safe and having healthy markets means taking a small portion of money away from million/billionaires.
casualvagrancy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 20h
Don’t forget scarlet fever, rheumatic fever, puerperal fever, and the plague!
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 16h
True for peace time as well. Very few people arguing for war has actually ever seen combat.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 17 pts · 1d
remember rand paul is the other SENATOR of kentucky, along with mitch.
OleFoFa@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
So the good folk of Kentucky are represented by one dead senator and the other just brain-dead. I wonder what their internal monologue is convincing themselves that this is something that actually succeeds in "owning the libs"
deft@lemmy.wtf · 17 pts · 1d
Rand Paul is vaccinated. Reminder to tell anyone who brings him up that fact.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
All conservatives are. Even the most vehement anti-vax ones.
Fox News didnt let anyone in the building without a vaccine card at one point.
But conservative voters always conveniently ignore and pretend not to remember all of this.
casualvagrancy@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 20h
He doesn’t seem to be claiming he isn’t vaccinated.
RP: hotdogs might not be healthy Lemmy users: you once at a hotdog hahahaha owned noob!
deft@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 20h
You're either young or not American. Rand Paul has been anti vaccination forever
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/rand-pauls-vaccine-claims-microscope
"On Friday night in Iowa, Paul faced likely voters in the state's leadoff nominating caucuses for the first time since answering questions about a measles outbreak centered in California. Paul said Monday that he had heard about "many tragic cases" of children who got vaccines and ended up with "profound mental disorders."
That assertion has no basis in medical research, and Paul clearly was still upset on Friday about how his comments had been received"
This is from early 2015, before COVID btw.
casualvagrancy@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 19h
The tweet isn’t any kind of “own.” It doesn’t contradict Rand Paul. Everyone here thinking like this is some really clever gotcha moment … they’re just kind of telling on themselves.
deft@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 11h
Again. Rand Paul has stomped around for over a decade telling people to be wary of vaccines, that they cause autism, mental disorders and that they're overall unhealthy. Meanwhile he is vaccinated.
I don't know why you're being straight up frustratingly stupid about it.
The point is whenever Rand Paul says fuck all about vaccines the first thing to note is HE IS VACCINATED. He's a hypocrite and he is trying to grift people.
He knows there are Americans who have been convinced by religion and lack of education and people like him to think vaccines aren't good, so he's preying on that WHILE HE IS VACCINATED.
He would not be allowed to do the things he does if he wasn't. It doesn't matter what he says in this tweet, he should shut the fuck up about vaccinations because the rest of us know he's lying.
There is no reason to ever listen to this man about vaccinations.
It's not meant to be a gotcha, it's not meant to SLAM or OWN or ANNIHILATE Rand Paul. I'm not Ben Shitpiro. Again, if he says fuck all about vaccines know, he is vaccinated and he's trying to grift.
Okay? Okay.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1d
Reminder: The neoeugenics movement wants to ban vaccines for the masses, so that the poor will die from preventable diseases.
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 1d
Disease mutates if left to eat through the masses. It will mutate into something that kills them too. What an idiotic idea, I struggle to believe these people actually think this way.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 1d
Eugenics: I'll make better people for you. Stronger, faster, smarter! A race of Harrison Bergerons!
Eugenicists: But what if we could become immune to polio?
52fighters@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 2d
I think the problem was rooted in public trust. Many people were required to vaccine due to their work or where they lived and vaccine manufacturers were largely sheltered from product lawsuits. Putting these two things together has a corrosive effect on public trust.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-i-sue-if-im-harmed-by-the-coronavirus-vaccine.html
Mr_WorldlyWiseman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 2d
What injuries? Who has been denied a case here? The standard requiring documented negligence seems completely reasonable, these are highly studied and highly documented items.
If you ride an elevator and you get a headache, you can't just sue the elevator manufacturer. That elevator was inspected at every step and was known to work, there is a very high bar for you to prove that the elevator caused the headache. Bringing lawyers in is a waste of everyone's time and money. Vaccines, even the coronavirus vaccines, are 100x as safe as those elevators.
Americans are over-litigious and uneducated about medicine.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 4 pts · 1d
It's not so much that Americans are uneducated.... it's more that a large portion have developed a resistance to being educated....one could perhaps say they're vaccinated against knowledge.
52fighters@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 1d
Didn't the earlier AstraZeneca vaccine eventually get pulled due to possible links to Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis? Ultimately, it doesn't matter. A lot of people are going to be upset at having a mandate when recourse to justice if the vaccine goes wrong is pulled before the effects are fully studied.
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Yes it did. But that one was also a traditional vaccine, not an mRNA one that these idiots screamed conspiracy about.
They used that to throw doubt on all vaccines in general.
Mr_WorldlyWiseman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 2h
As far as I can tell, that vaccine wasn't pulled because it was unsafe, it was recommended against because there were other competing vaccines that were safer and more effective.
Its like how they don't sell cars without backup cameras anymore. Its not like the cars were unsafe without backup cameras (actually all cars are unsafe), but in that rare chance (basically 0.0001% if we're continuing the analogy), it can save a life by using a car with a camera.
I think people have a poor understanding of what the terms "fully studied" and "extremely rare side effects" mean. In colloquial speak, these vaccines were "fully studied". For every person who had a vaccine "accident", there were millions whose lives were saved by the vaccine.
People are willing to take huge risks for convenience (cars), but they're unwilling to trade away huge risk in return for a microscopic risk (vaccines).
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 1d
trump politicized the hell out of it, thats where its coming from.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
2 policies were anti science.
Requiring vaccines for people who had already recovered.
Removing (particularly mask) requirements for people who had been vaccinated.
TomMasz@piefed.social · 9 pts · 2d
I don't think the "science" Rand Paul follows is really science .
drdalek@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 2d
Or, more likely, he submitted false results and went un-vaccinated
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 2d
Well, no, conservatives operate on 'rules for thee not for me'. There's no reason to assume Paul was vaccinated based on events he attended requiring vaccination.
I don't doubt that he was, but you can't draw a line between the things listed in the post.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 6 pts · 2d
You mean he probably lied regarding his vax status, therefore forging documents.
777Prawn@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 2d
Unless he faked the creds.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
medical science has shown that long covid fucks with the brain. now, is this an "easy out" for stupid people, or do we really have to consider it
tlekiteki@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 2d
Rand Paul is compromised.
Chrglstr143@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 16h
Infection is the best protection? Alright then Rand, please get infected with HIV so that you may be protected from it in the future. Better yet, expose yourself to Marburg virus so you’ll never have to use a vaccine ever again. Doesn’t sound so smart now does it?
JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 15h
Hey, it's still technically correct. Also: Shhh, don't let the right-wing politicians know.
OldChicoAle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18h
If infection was the best protection...then why did 7 million people die? Was it the best protection for them? What about the other deaths caused indirectly? What is it like 20-30 million deaths? They know what they're saying. Fucking evil fucks.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 9h
Especially since Rand Paul has a medical degree. He's just saying what MAGA Facebook groups want to hear.
But he trained as an opthalmologist. Zero training in infectious diseases. And what is the AMA doing about his misinformation? Nothing.
cantstopthesignal@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 10h
The right is trying to play off people's fears because of course no one wants to take their kid to the doctor and have them cry afterward. It's easy to convince someone who's already emotional, confused, and afraid that there's a boogieman behind it.
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1d
These fucks should be executed.
SurelyItsNotPossible@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 1d
Yeah it's almost like it's reality, something you guys enjoy holding hands and pretending "isn't real" 24/7 together eh https://www.c-span.org/program/senate-committee/dr-anthony-fauci-testifies-on-origins-of-covid-19-pandemic/683492 Been reality since day 1 and now even here 6.5 years later with this proof right in front of your eyes you continue to pretend this isn't true because "we don't want it to be" / "it would mean those people we dislike were correct all along"
Delusion, now be sure to ban me for disagreeing and providing evidence as to why so your echo chamber remains strong Also FYI most people in the world live in reality unlike you all and make their decisions upon that (see: the current president of the united states, who also won the popular vote), can't wait for you to emotionally jump on my comment with zero counter arguments as you're unable to refute anything I've said <3 just hit the down arrow by my name and scroll down QUICK ! ! !
Dozzi92@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
Can't refute what you said because you didn't say anything.
SurelyItsNotPossible@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 15h
My bad, I forgot my comment requires critical thinking skills to piece together
ExperiencedWinter@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1d
Wut?
SurelyItsNotPossible@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 14h
My bad, I forgot my comment requires critical thinking skills to piece together
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 1d
Get some help man, you don't have to go through life in a cloud of insanity.
SurelyItsNotPossible@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 14h
Imagine still failing this after I literally spell it out for you ahead of time:
"You're INSANE!!! Because... because... because YOU JUST ARE, okay??!?" - You | Great counter-argument!
munsking@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
what are you trying to say?
SurelyItsNotPossible@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 14h
My bad, I forgot my comment requires critical thinking skills to piece together
munsking@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 11h
well as it stands you just seem to be schizo posting with a victim complex
can you just reply with your core argument here?
then i will try to either agree or give a counter to that
PepperoniNipple@lazysoci.al · 3 pts · 1d
Says a dude who will never have even a quarter of what the average baby boomer had at their age, like 7+ children, a home at 19 years old, economic stability, or at least a happy family of four without a college degree. Why? Are they smarter, work harder, or what?
Why should we listen to a dumbass who cannot make even a quarter of what any of my baby boomer grandparents made at your age, one had 7 children, the other 10, and one of them didn't go to college? Both are obsessed with the Bible. Both have massive homes and had a life full of activity and ignorant happiness with their children.
What about you? You keep crying about not being able to afford the Steam Machine. RAM memory. Housing. Rent. Healthcare. Videogames at their normal price. Enough protein, meat, good food. Going out to the cinema anytime you wanted, any restaurant. A home at 19 years old like the average baby boomer did, instead, the average American Citizen is getting their first home at 54 years old today. The fertility rate went from 7+ to 1.5, and it isn't because of the lies the Jeffrey Epstein Class told you, like blaming women getting jobs and becoming independent, or that this economical gap is normal.
You are just a moron who benefits the Jeffrey Epstein Class by trying to distract people with Dr. Fauci. You want people to keep looking sideways instead of up.
Your president is a pedophile, and him and his family and every single one of his followers will pay for the great amount of pain and suffering you've brought upon innocent people for so long. Being anonymous in the Internet won't protect you anymore. It's so easy to spot insane dipshits like you in real life, and open their heads to the truth.
At the end of the day, is it thanks to your friction and stupidity that democratic socialists like Zohran Mandami and Claire Valdez are conquering your country from within. You will have free healthcare, affordable housing and more education whether you like it or not. People like Zohran will be your future president.
You are a broke pedophile apologist who spends his days commenting pro-MAGA retarded shit online instead of spending time with your friends or your children. You're already dead. Why should we listen to you at all, y'know?
SurelyItsNotPossible@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 15h
My new copypasta thanks bro, the fact you are UPVOTED for writing a literal fanfiction about my real life when you have absolutely no idea who I am and my circumstances is fucking hilarious (who the absolute fuck wants that piece of shit Steam Machine LOL)
People truly place their delusions over reality on here lmfao "This guy is genuinely mentally insane typing an essay of literal nonsense, but he hates those people and that poster who I hate too... so I'll upvote him anyway in agreement YEAH!"
Also you failed the test I literally spelled out for you:
So explain to me why would I respond to any part of your strawman schizobabble when you have failed to address my original argument, Fauci tried to force these useless dangerous '''vaccines''' that everyone with our eyes open back then knew were bullshit FROM DAY 1 and here he is 6.5 years later terrified to answer questions about how he knew all along and was actively dismissing evidence of them being bullshit
It's so weird how all of us who never took that shit are all still alive and totally fine today, compared to the massive rise of 'died suddenly' videos whilst they were actively being pushed on people...! "We're just not sure what's causing this!" on the news for years XD
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10h
Oh god now theres another one.
Wait..
PepperoniNipple@lazysoci.al · 1 pts · 2h
Why are you comparing me to that fucking MAGA, dude?
PepperoniNipple@lazysoci.al · 1 pts · 2h
If Capitalism or Trump love you so much, how come he is not giving you even a quarter of what the average baby boomer had at your age yet? Statistics do not lie. If you're actually an outlier, why are you here instead of spending time with your children? We should just eat you and return everything you stole from the working class back.
You do not hate the Jeffrey Epstein Class, you benefit and support it by attacking people like Dr. Fauci. You want to help them distract people with nonsense, so they can continue raping and bombing children. If that's not your goal, it is what you are doing, regardless, so. Lock in, you moronic MAGA. You are going to hell automatically for helping pedophiles.
To be honest, it's better for me to leave people like you in the darkness. Keep blaming Dr. Fauci and keep hunting innocent people down. It was thanks to people like you that most of my republican relatives died to Covid because they said the exact same shit as you. Covid was good for that only: at killing a bunch of stubborn ignorant republicans who think they knew better than thousands of doctors around the globe.
You are still a proud and loud antivaxxer in 2026, to be honest, I don't need to do anything. You will get yourself killed and that's fine, it's your choice. I took the vaccine and I am still waiting to die as retards like you told me I would, but it's been 6 years, I am currently learning how to create MetaHumans in Unreal Engine 5.8, and my English grammar is still superior than yours, and I am just a Mexican who has never visited the USA. Your brain is mush and filled with paranoia, making up nonsense about "suddenly died" videos and what not just to hype yourself with lies.
You are already food for worm. You have nothing of value to offer to humanity. You are boring, broke, and also evil and stupid. You are trash, and people deserve better than trash. People need to take the trash out and fix their country already. Or do not, so numbers like these can stay the way they are:
During Covid:
Which seems more responsible there? And by A LOT.
Every year, to general conflict (rates per 100,000 inhabitants):
Which are safer? Qatar, China and Saudi Arabia.
Now, according to World Population Review, Our World Data, the UN and more regarding wealth inequality, the higher the number, the worse (Gini coefficient, 0 would mean everyone has the exact same amount of cash, so, expect it to be a minimum of 20~):
TLDR; Keep being yourself. It's exactly Americans like you that are helping Socialism win. You are so fucking stupid, you cannot even make a quarter of what any of my baby boomer grandparents made at your age. And you still support and benefit the people who stole your potential away. You already lost.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Brother, I think you forgot to take your meds this morning.
SurelyItsNotPossible@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 14h
Imagine still failing this after I literally spell it out for you ahead of time:
"You're INSANE!!! Because... because... because YOU JUST ARE, okay??!?" - You | Great counter-argument!
Indie@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 2d
Rand Paul seems sensible on other issues. Why is he so stubborn on covid?
kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 1d
The clownest shit and from a new user. Nice try.
nickiwest@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
In my estimation, he has reasonable views about 25% of the time, but the other 75% is batshit crazy. There is no middle ground.
Pretty standard for a Libertarian, in my experience.
bcgm3@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
His dad seemed way more decent and sensible during his attempt at a presidential run. Rand has always been kind of a sandy little butthole.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1d
Doorbook@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 1d
While this could be based on bad faith we cannot deny how a cover up was happening, and how mishandling of the pandemic caused more death.
It was very clear how this was being studied actively in a poorly protected lab, and highly possible that it could a soptage event or an accedident. Yet they continue to dismmiss these suggestions as being lies and conspiracy theory.
I recall posting published academic papers from the lab around October before the cases start coming up discussing continuing research of the virus and getting banned on Reddit. That how crazy it was.
People also need to question how senior homes were mismanaged that causes unnecessary deaths/murder due to neglect.
Same with Nurses and medical staff who suffer due to lack of organization and oversight.
Also for vaccine, in a capitalist society that values money over anything else, after a major event like that, there should be national committee in every country investigating CEO and major shareholder and any communication between any parties that made tons of money.
Assuming Fauci is innocent just because Republicans are the one going after him is stupid. The two party system should be able to hold each other accountable. If he didn't want to handle the investigation, he should have quit, taking the position comes with risks of being investigated for mishandling of situations and he should be ready for it.
The main problem here, is that, while Republicans doing their job, even as misdirection or in bad faith, the Democrats are not holding Republicans to the same standards, best they do is continuing where the Republican left.
So yes this is good to see and hope more details comes out.
deft@lemmy.wtf · 5 pts · 1d
Fauci is definitely innocent. Not sure where you even find grounds to argue that.
I agree with a lot of what you say but acting like fauci is cobra commander or something and controls all these strings is nuts. I think it was something like 50,000 a year for 8 years that went towards this specific lab which fauci had the authority to apply alongside a ton of other labs.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Because at this point, as far as I can tell, this is still just baseless speculation. It could have been that, but it could have been aliens, we don't have any actual evidence to base any of it on, hence it being easy to dismiss as a conspiracy theory.
Yes, this is every damn day. Before COVID, during the height of the pandemic, and every day since. None of that is particularly relevant to COVID, Fauci, or vaccines. Profit seeking interests preying on the weak without sufficient repurcussions.
We presume innocence because not one bit of evidence has been presented. Like this accusation that we should have just all gotten infected because 'everyone knew' that was better than getting vaccinated. Which goes against mountains of evidence showing that people were way better off with the vaccinne, with the most 'damming' credible outcome being that maybe it was a waste of time for people under 20, but only evident with hindsight.
The problem is simply that the pandemic was an embarrassment for Trump, and would have been even if he handled everything right (which he didn't), but they need to scapegoat someone so they scapegoat Fauci for no apparent reason.
Doorbook@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 17h
Because at this point, as far as I can tell, this is still just baseless speculation. It could have been that, but it could have been aliens, we don’t have any actual evidence to base any of it on, hence it being easy to dismiss as a conspiracy theory.Depend on how you look at thing as I recall:
I think these three points are not baseless. Now we add other points:
I think these are not baseless suggestions.