i managed to do that to myself once in my sleep; i had managed to wrap my arm around a lamp cord which came out of the plug, and when i rolled over i managed to put my thumb on the exposed wires.
I'll never understand why the US refuses to modernize the horrid NEMA 5 connectors. A recessed receptacle, insulators around the base of the live and neutral blades, spring-loaded detention mechanism to keep the connector from slipping out... in its current state, it's only two steps removed from sticking the bare wires into the socket.
Arrogance: we especially don’t want to do it because the rest of the world does.
Cost: not the equipment, though that can get pretty pricey considering we up the margins on everything, but mostly labor; labor is ungodly expensive (they cry insurance or (my fave) “you’re paying for the years of experience”).
Because everything the EU and the rest of the world does is stupid. By adapting things from other countries would be akin to acknowledging that other countries can do some things better than the US. But this can't be, since the US is Numbaaa 1! /s
Unless one of your outlets is wired backwards, plugging this into 2 outlets on the same side of your electrical panel won't do anything.
If you were able to plug it into outlets on different sides of your panel, then you just created a 240v short and the cable is going to be real-spicy real-quick.
Unless the cord crosses hot to neutral, connecting two ends to the same outlet won’t do anything. In fact behind the wall, that’s how the two halves of a socket, or two adjacent sockets on the same breaker, are wired.
Would that only happen if one outlet were wired backwards (hot to neutral and vice-versa)?
If both outlets are wired correctly, as I'm envisioning it, the extension cord is parallel to the existing branch.
Same if both outlets are wired (the same) incorrectly.
But if one outlet is wired correctly and one has its poles swapped, then you are shorting hot directly to neutral...
But also being a 3-prong outlet...assuming everything is wired correctly...the short would either be redirected to ground and either trip the breaker or trigger a GFCI...no?
IANAElectrician. Just a high dude thinking about circuits.
Worth mentioning that the point of a suicide cord like this isn't to connect two outlets together...really no reason to do that...it's usually used to hook up a generator (or other load-center, like say a campground plug) to a branch circuit when the home/rv/load doesn't have an inlet. It's also extremely dangerous if used incorrectly, and there are several ways to very easily use it incorrectly.
In a residential setting with reasonable extension cable length & gauge, and reasonable loads you actually kinda can. Impedance and phase mismatches won't matter on those scales. In fact, that's basically what a ring circuit is.
Anecdote: my grandparents basically had an "accidental ring circuit" in their old house for like 40 years. It was only noticed when they hired an electrician to upgrade the wiring for an electric stove
Not legally, and if you're not careful it can go from a suicide cord to a homicide cord. If you're still connected to the grid while you use one, it can backfeed and fry a lineman who was working on what they thought was a disconnect line.
The proper way to do it is to get a transfer switch, which disconnects you from mains before you can connect to a generator.
Not doubting what you're saying but just a bit confused because wouldn't electrifying what a lineman works on end up overloading the generator because you're now powering everything up to where the circuit broke upstream? Saying this based on an assumption that the lines service multple households and the generators are designed to keep important things running rather than just replace power plants for even one house, let alone the neighbourhood.
How do they handle solar setups that are set up specifically to send power into the grid?
Not an electrician, I always imagined the downed power line being close to the house, such that when you backfeed the transformer it doesn't have a load on it until the lineman grabs it and becomes the load.
I imagine when your circuit that's still connected includes several houses or most of your neighborhood, then maybe you'd overload the generator? 🤷♂️ I don't know.
Solar systems I do know, though.
If you have a grid-tied solar system, that feeds power back into the grid, then when the power goes out, your batteries and inverters are all turned off automatically so they won't kill linemen. That's what's ironic about grid connected solar, you can't use it during a power outage. They only work when the power is on.
Now if you have a standalone solar system, with a transfer panel where you can switch several circuits in your house to either run on the grid OR solar, then you can use solar whether the grid is up or down. But you can never feed the grid to make money back directly in that fashion.
If you really, really needed to power a whole house, you could use one of those, but you need to turn off the main breaker and lock the door shut. If you have the foresight to get a male-to-male, you have the foresight to get an interconnect setup.
i guess if you're got a bad breaker on your panel, you can load 2 circuits on one breaker with that thing, at least until the hardware store opens. you still get overcurrent protection.... but a very unlikely thing to need
Worth mentioning that they are absolutely not safe as the exposed prongs are energised. They are called suicide cords for a reason. All it takes is to plug the cord into a running generator or working outlet first and the exposed terminals are now live.
Its also worth noting that they very often kill linesmen working to desire the utility because people use them to hook up their generators without turning off their main breaker which back feeds onto the grid.
Proper generator inlets are very readily available and if you don't want to go that route, just plug your fridge and other important devices into your generator with extension cords.
There are zero ways to use this cord correctly. Do not tell people otherwise. The proper generator connection is to, as you just said, use a proper generator inlet and interlock like you said you use. Anyone using a cord like this is using it incorrectly as there is no correct way to use it. Both the CEC and the NEC expressly forbid these. All it takes is for a child to unplug the wrong end and touch the exposed prongs and they will get shocked.
A proper generator inlet should have the male ends in a recessed inlet box connected to either a transfer switch or an interlocked generator panel.
Are you supposed to do it? No. Is it safe? Also no. But did lots of our grandfathers run their Christmas lights with an odd mismatch of cords including one of these? Yesss with a cigarette in one hand, a beer in the other, they sure as hell did.
Is burning down your house or electrocuting the linesman fixing your power outage because you backfed onto the transformer with your cheater cord and energized the neutral to 25kv? Fuck yeah! It's an American tradition!
(I'm Canadian btw and we have much the same stupidity here...)
When USB-C-compliant devices are connected, they have to negotiate which side is upstream and which is downstream. So yes, they're hermaphroditic, just like snails.
In contrast, the non-compliant USB A-to-A cable that Ugreen uses with its own devices is closer to hyenas. If you know, you know... and don't you wish you didn't.
USB-C is specifically designed so it can swap between different modes safely by way of devices being able to communicate what they need from a plug via dedicated pins in the socket. So yeah, you can have USB-C male/male cables and it's going to be safe as long as you use it with compatible devices.
I think it's pretty neat to be able to attach one USB-C/Thunderbolt cable to the laptop and drive 3 external displays, 5-6 USB devices and receive power and networking at the same time. I'm shuddering just trying to think of the mess it would be with separate USB/HDMI/DP cables and a charger. The more cables you connect, the more the laptop becomes stationary. With one cable I can rip it off and throw the laptop away from my desk.
As for when using the laptop on its own... anything that doesn't have a native USB C is easy to adapt, but even then there are many devices that are wireless and don't need a USB at all.
They do keep them for some time. Think of how desktop motherboards still come with PS/2 ports even though 99% of mice and keyboards are USB. And with laptops, many new ones still come with a couple of USB A ports and an RJ-45.
However, as with everything in tech, some things have to get phased out at some point. From a manufacturer's standpoint it's probably 1) cost saving measures and 2) making space for new things (because you can't keep all the ports that have been there historically).
It's not, but think of how many times it's used compared to the wireless. I think it would make practical sense to make this into a dongle, but maybe it's not cheap enough to make financial sense for manufacturing.
The better solution is getting a sparkie to install a male socket (with protective cover) for power inlet if you're anticipating needing a genset on any regular basis. While they're at it get them to also install an isolating switch so you can easily avoid backfeeding power into the grid while keeping the house powered.
78 Comments
kersploosh@sh.itjust.works · 132 pts · 2d
The last extension cord you will ever need.
lime@feddit.nu · 36 pts · 2d
at least it's short enough that it will only reach two plugs on the same panel, thereby guaranteeing that the first things that blow are breakers.
terranoid@lemmy.cafe · 39 pts · 2d
Yeah, not what I need. I need NEMA 5-15 to CAT6 adapter
lime@feddit.nu · 45 pts · 2d
the P in PoE stands for Pulverization
_druid@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 2d
Alternatively, One can plug one end in, then you have a creative new way to parent.
"Didn't mow the lawn? C'mere Billy, hold out your palm."
lime@feddit.nu · 10 pts · 2d
i managed to do that to myself once in my sleep; i had managed to wrap my arm around a lamp cord which came out of the plug, and when i rolled over i managed to put my thumb on the exposed wires.
rtxn@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 2d
I'll never understand why the US refuses to modernize the horrid NEMA 5 connectors. A recessed receptacle, insulators around the base of the live and neutral blades, spring-loaded detention mechanism to keep the connector from slipping out... in its current state, it's only two steps removed from sticking the bare wires into the socket.
autriyo@feddit.org · 15 pts · 2d
Tbh insulating the blades bases would be a huge step in the right direction, and there's no remodeling required.
At least for homeowners, factories would need new production lines presumably.
dohpaz42@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 1d
blackberry28@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 1d
Because everything the EU and the rest of the world does is stupid. By adapting things from other countries would be akin to acknowledging that other countries can do some things better than the US. But this can't be, since the US is Numbaaa 1! /s
lime@feddit.nu · 2 pts · 1d
i don't live in north america, but this was in a house from the 1910s.
CoopaLoopa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 1d
Unless one of your outlets is wired backwards, plugging this into 2 outlets on the same side of your electrical panel won't do anything.
If you were able to plug it into outlets on different sides of your panel, then you just created a 240v short and the cable is going to be real-spicy real-quick.
whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1d
then the thermal breaker would jump
marcos@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
That's only true if your house runs on DC.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1d
Unless the cord crosses hot to neutral, connecting two ends to the same outlet won’t do anything. In fact behind the wall, that’s how the two halves of a socket, or two adjacent sockets on the same breaker, are wired.
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 1d
Would that only happen if one outlet were wired backwards (hot to neutral and vice-versa)?
If both outlets are wired correctly, as I'm envisioning it, the extension cord is parallel to the existing branch.
Same if both outlets are wired (the same) incorrectly.
But if one outlet is wired correctly and one has its poles swapped, then you are shorting hot directly to neutral...
But also being a 3-prong outlet...assuming everything is wired correctly...the short would either be redirected to ground and either trip the breaker or trigger a GFCI...no?
IANAElectrician. Just a high dude thinking about circuits.
Worth mentioning that the point of a suicide cord like this isn't to connect two outlets together...really no reason to do that...it's usually used to hook up a generator (or other load-center, like say a campground plug) to a branch circuit when the home/rv/load doesn't have an inlet. It's also extremely dangerous if used incorrectly, and there are several ways to very easily use it incorrectly.
marcos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
You can't just branch and reconnect AC power lines at random points.
Or rather, you can, maybe only once though.
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 22h
In a residential setting with reasonable extension cable length & gauge, and reasonable loads you actually kinda can. Impedance and phase mismatches won't matter on those scales. In fact, that's basically what a ring circuit is.
Anecdote: my grandparents basically had an "accidental ring circuit" in their old house for like 40 years. It was only noticed when they hired an electrician to upgrade the wiring for an electric stove
Venator@lemmy.nz · 4 pts · 1d
Unless you accidentally touch one of the prongs after plugging one end in... 😅
Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 2d
Laughs in generator.
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
You are forgetting the plug on the knob that will plug it in
uen3@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 2d
Even better:
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
Is this the one you use to feed the house from a generator? If so, I think that's the one time it's valid
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
You can get a male-ended socket on the house for that exact scenario.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 5 pts · 1d
Don't forget a master switch between it and mains. Otherwise, line workers (and you) could get injured.
Bonus points if it auto-switches based on whether mains is available.
Baggie@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
Oh that's so much smarter.
dalekcaan@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 1d
Not legally, and if you're not careful it can go from a suicide cord to a homicide cord. If you're still connected to the grid while you use one, it can backfeed and fry a lineman who was working on what they thought was a disconnect line.
The proper way to do it is to get a transfer switch, which disconnects you from mains before you can connect to a generator.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Not doubting what you're saying but just a bit confused because wouldn't electrifying what a lineman works on end up overloading the generator because you're now powering everything up to where the circuit broke upstream? Saying this based on an assumption that the lines service multple households and the generators are designed to keep important things running rather than just replace power plants for even one house, let alone the neighbourhood.
How do they handle solar setups that are set up specifically to send power into the grid?
hereiamagain@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 22h
Not an electrician, I always imagined the downed power line being close to the house, such that when you backfeed the transformer it doesn't have a load on it until the lineman grabs it and becomes the load.
I imagine when your circuit that's still connected includes several houses or most of your neighborhood, then maybe you'd overload the generator? 🤷♂️ I don't know.
Solar systems I do know, though. If you have a grid-tied solar system, that feeds power back into the grid, then when the power goes out, your batteries and inverters are all turned off automatically so they won't kill linemen. That's what's ironic about grid connected solar, you can't use it during a power outage. They only work when the power is on.
Now if you have a standalone solar system, with a transfer panel where you can switch several circuits in your house to either run on the grid OR solar, then you can use solar whether the grid is up or down. But you can never feed the grid to make money back directly in that fashion.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
If you really, really needed to power a whole house, you could use one of those, but you need to turn off the main breaker and lock the door shut. If you have the foresight to get a male-to-male, you have the foresight to get an interconnect setup.
expatriado@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 2d
i guess if you're got a bad breaker on your panel, you can load 2 circuits on one breaker with that thing, at least until the hardware store opens. you still get overcurrent protection.... but a very unlikely thing to need
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 1d
The lovely suicide cord.
Worth mentioning that it is plenty safe...if used appropriately (for attaching a generator to a house that doesn't have an inlet).
It's when it's not used appropriately that's a problem. And it's very easy to not use it appropriately.
thetrekkersparky@startrek.website · 8 pts · 1d
Worth mentioning that they are absolutely not safe as the exposed prongs are energised. They are called suicide cords for a reason. All it takes is to plug the cord into a running generator or working outlet first and the exposed terminals are now live.
Its also worth noting that they very often kill linesmen working to desire the utility because people use them to hook up their generators without turning off their main breaker which back feeds onto the grid.
Proper generator inlets are very readily available and if you don't want to go that route, just plug your fridge and other important devices into your generator with extension cords.
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
And that would all count as "not using it correctly".
As I said, they are many ways to very easily use it incorrectly. Being overconfident about it is one, which is why I have an inlet and an interlock.
thetrekkersparky@startrek.website · 9 pts · 1d
There are zero ways to use this cord correctly. Do not tell people otherwise. The proper generator connection is to, as you just said, use a proper generator inlet and interlock like you said you use. Anyone using a cord like this is using it incorrectly as there is no correct way to use it. Both the CEC and the NEC expressly forbid these. All it takes is for a child to unplug the wrong end and touch the exposed prongs and they will get shocked.
A proper generator inlet should have the male ends in a recessed inlet box connected to either a transfer switch or an interlocked generator panel.
Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
Murphy's law says it will be used wrong, and as such it is a bad design and a bad idea.
There are alternatives that are better, this has only the advantage of being cheap.
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
It has the advantage of being easily made in an emergency situation.
Idk, I think it's a worthwhile thought exercise to know the wrong ways to do something, in case the situation ever arises where you need to.
Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
To a certain extent, yes.
Like it's a good idea to drink from a ditch if that's the only water. Better than dying of thirst anyway.
schmorpel@slrpnk.net · 39 pts · 2d
I must have gotten pale when some festival organizer handed me the end of a cable with a male plug. 'Your electricity supply, here you go!'
Me: '... ???'
Organizer, still waving the cable end around: 'Just use an adapter!' (he barely managed to omit the 'stupid woman' in his answer ...)
Dojan@pawb.social · 16 pts · 2d
I don’t get what you were supposed to do with a plug and an adapter.
lime@feddit.nu · 27 pts · 2d
send a picture to the fire department?
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 2d
Then call the cops, then try to find a fire alarm to pull so you can evacuate the venue.
turtlesareneat@piefed.ca · 28 pts · 1d
Are you supposed to do it? No. Is it safe? Also no. But did lots of our grandfathers run their Christmas lights with an odd mismatch of cords including one of these? Yesss with a cigarette in one hand, a beer in the other, they sure as hell did.
Bad_Ideas_In_Bulk@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
Those of us that remember our grandparents getting away with it are a product of survival bias.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 1d
Never even heard of this - is this an American thing?
iocase@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 23h
Is burning down your house or electrocuting the linesman fixing your power outage because you backfed onto the transformer with your cheater cord and energized the neutral to 25kv? Fuck yeah! It's an American tradition!
(I'm Canadian btw and we have much the same stupidity here...)
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 21h
TBH one does not simply patch into a UK-style ring circuit. Those who do have chosen death.
NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de · 22 pts · 2d
I was gonna mention something like a USB Type-C cable, but that's not really electricians' territory, is it?
SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz · 33 pts · 2d
USB-C is kinda sorta hermaphroditic.
rtxn@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 2d
When USB-C-compliant devices are connected, they have to negotiate which side is upstream and which is downstream. So yes, they're hermaphroditic, just like snails.
In contrast, the non-compliant USB A-to-A cable that Ugreen uses with its own devices is closer to hyenas. If you know, you know... and don't you wish you didn't.
autriyo@feddit.org · 4 pts · 2d
My mpcie to pcie x4 adaptor uses an A-to-A cable, also says on the board to not plug in USB devices. :D
lime@feddit.nu · 6 pts · 2d
that "kinda sorta" is doing a lot of work there.
ThePyroPython@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2d
Here's a handy reference: everything downstream of a plug socket is electronics, everything upstream of a plug socket is electrical.
Sincerely, an electronics engineer that works in the electrical field.
rockerface@lemmy.cafe · 7 pts · 2d
USB-C is specifically designed so it can swap between different modes safely by way of devices being able to communicate what they need from a plug via dedicated pins in the socket. So yeah, you can have USB-C male/male cables and it's going to be safe as long as you use it with compatible devices.
TWeaK@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 2d
Pfisterer HV terminations are male to male. They also have big butt plugs for when they're not in use. Kinky Germans.
West_of_West@piefed.social · 11 pts · 2d
How else will my generator power my house?
...
And your house, and your house
spacehulk@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 1d
Ok i get the electrician joke, but what is this love wins thing? Its like a screenshot of two posts and the bottom is cut off
OpenStars@discuss.online · 12 pts · 1d
Bc when you plug something into the socket wrong, it always causes a full nuclear explosion! Yeesh, how did you not know this already...? (/s)
AnnaFrankfurter@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 1d
HDMI, C to C, etc. Cables
Hiro8811@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Electricians don't deal with HDMI or C cables, that's probably an electronics engineer job or IT
A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl · 1 pts · 1d
uhlala plugging two USB cables require an electronics engineering degree... /s
whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
Electricians like in electricity, I guess
JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz · -1 pts · 1d
I think everything USB C is stupid. Bring back the A and A to C cables. Do I have to upgrade literally everything to use a laptop normally.
whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
It's like saying we should go back to USB-b to A because I still have a printer using it, or even a serial port.
It's annoying the change I know, but once we'll just need one type of cable for everything IT related I think it will be for the best
ThatGuy46475@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
https://xkcd.com/927/
kamen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
I think it's pretty neat to be able to attach one USB-C/Thunderbolt cable to the laptop and drive 3 external displays, 5-6 USB devices and receive power and networking at the same time. I'm shuddering just trying to think of the mess it would be with separate USB/HDMI/DP cables and a charger. The more cables you connect, the more the laptop becomes stationary. With one cable I can rip it off and throw the laptop away from my desk.
As for when using the laptop on its own... anything that doesn't have a native USB C is easy to adapt, but even then there are many devices that are wireless and don't need a USB at all.
JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 1d
Well, I'm not saying the tech is bad, but why not also keep the old ports?
kamen@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
They do keep them for some time. Think of how desktop motherboards still come with PS/2 ports even though 99% of mice and keyboards are USB. And with laptops, many new ones still come with a couple of USB A ports and an RJ-45.
However, as with everything in tech, some things have to get phased out at some point. From a manufacturer's standpoint it's probably 1) cost saving measures and 2) making space for new things (because you can't keep all the ports that have been there historically).
JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 1d
How is rj45 legacy? And why do the laptop manufacturers hate it so much?
kamen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
It's not, but think of how many times it's used compared to the wireless. I think it would make practical sense to make this into a dongle, but maybe it's not cheap enough to make financial sense for manufacturing.
minfapper@piefed.social · 6 pts · 1d
I mean, generators exist and you usually need a male to male cable to plug into your house
gnu@lemmy.zip · 19 pts · 1d
The better solution is getting a sparkie to install a male socket (with protective cover) for power inlet if you're anticipating needing a genset on any regular basis. While they're at it get them to also install an isolating switch so you can easily avoid backfeeding power into the grid while keeping the house powered.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
You don't. You need an Interconnect and an "Inlet" port. You could use a male-to-male, but they're illegal and dangerous to the line workers.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
Only if you like murdering utility repairmen.
Bakkoda@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2d
Rj45 to nema15 in a pinch
zqwzzle@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 4h
etherkiller and friends
Maeve@kbin.earth · 2 pts · 2d
https://b2c-contenthub.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/belkin-boost-cable.jpg