There’s a hollow behind the dragin, you can’t fit a brush or sponge back there, it doesn’t look like you can put this in the dishwasher… so it’s going to be a bacterial breeding ground.
Other than hand-washing everyone’s crappy novelty mugs, I’m perfectly fine.
It looks like I’ve triggered the local fans of CRAPPY MUGS THAT SUCK, so I’ll just say please consider dishwasher safety when visiting your local cheap mug retailer or wash your own damn mugs.
At first glance I would have said two, the handle and the donut hole. After reading and considering your answer, I'm pretty confident you're right. The space between the tunnel formed by the donut hole and the mug itself forms an odd hole, but there it is.
No, they're right. Normally the interior of the mug isn't a topological hole as it only has the one "exit". But when you connect the surfaces for the center hole, it creates a third hole in the interior of the mug. The handle loop (1), the interior of the donut hole (2), and the exterior of the donut hole and the walls and bottom of the interior (3).
Okay, if a torus with a single patch of empty space on its surface is two holes, then this is three holes. But now I'm confused, because I don't know if that's true topologically. Otherwise, it's just a two-torus with a perforation on its 2-surface.
Edit: I've been informed by a topologist friend that this has two holes and that the lip of the mug is just a boundary.
Edit 3: Ignore the case below if the lip is a smooth curve. I had a brainfart when thinking through the loop contraction.
Edit 2: So to clarify, that's a boundary if the lip represents an abrupt transition to either side (i.e. if there's no "curve" into and out of the mug).
Since that's less realistic, let's assume that you can smoothly walk from the interior surface of the mug to the exterior and show that it isn't topologically a hole for that case either.
I've created a continuous loop around the two holes and the candidate "lip hole". These loops are embedded in the surface of the mug. You can plainly see that you can't contract the loop to a single point around the handle hole or the donut hole without crossing over the hole.
But now let's take our blue loop (the lip loop) and trivially contract it down to a point.
Our loop is on the outside around the lip.
Take the loop inside of the lip since this is still a smooth, continous surface. The loop is now on the outer wall of the inner mug.
Now bring the loop down toward the bottom along the wall.
Contract the loop to a single point at the bottom.
In this case, it isn't even a boundary anymore, and it provably isn't a hole.
If we ignore the handle, the torus with a surface opening can be deformed continuously into an 8 shape, the lip of the mug is not a hole, but you can go down the lip of the mug, around the tube in the middle, and back out, a fully enclosed path
The hole through the center makes a hole around it inside the mug.
Yeah, the hole through the center is one hole (the "donut hole"). The handle is the other (the "handle hole").
Topologically, the lip of the mug is a boundary, not a hole. This object is of genus 2 given it's a 2-manifold.
Edit: The explanation below is the product of a brainfart.
~~But we can show this assuming the lip isn't an abrupt boundary and that instead that the outer wall of the inner loop is part of the same side as the outside of the mug (i.e. that you can continuously walk on the surface from the outside past the lip without crossing an abrupt boundary, which more closely matches the physical reality of this mug).~~~
Watch this: imagine a loop around the hole of a donut. Now try to contract that loop down. Without cutting it, you can't.
Now take a loop around the lip of this coffee mug. You can contract it to a point by bringing it all over the lip of the mug, then inside, along the outer walls, and then finally down to the bottom of the mug. It all meets up there. No hole. There's the donut hole and the handle hole, but the colloquial "hole" is either a boundary if the lip is flat or not even a boundary if it continuously curves inward.
Now take a loop around the lip of this coffee mug. You can contract it to a point by bringing it all over the lip of the mug, then inside, along the outer walls, and then finally down to the bottom of the mug.
Topologically, that part is not a hole. The liquid basin not being a hole is where the joke in the OP originates, even: a standard coffee mug with a basin for coffee and a handle is homeomorphic (topologically equivalent) to a torus (a donut). And that's because the handle is the hole, not the basin.
In the case of the OP, ignore the handle for a second just to simplify things. That's a hollowed-out donut (torus) except that you've taken a part of that donut's surface and cut it out. That area that's been cut out isn't topologically a hole; instead, you've just created a boundary on the 2-manifold (read: flexible surface).
Topology has rigorous, algebraic definitions under the hood, but that's what's going on in this picture topologically: you've taken a donut, glued it to another donut, and cut a "hole" (colloquial usage) in the double-donut's surface, creating a boundary on the surface.
Edit: To hopefully justify this a bit intuitively for the standard coffee mug (not this abomination in the OP), the utilities problem is a classic toy problem in topology that
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
is unsolvable on a 2D plane
:::
but
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
can be solved when you embed it into the surface of a coffee mug.
:::
The hole in a normal cup that provides access to the inside of the cup is not a topological hole, so a normal cup has just one hole, and it is formed by the handle
77 Comments
N3rdBrain@fedinsfw.app · 128 pts · 5d
It makes people who like clean dishes and to actually use cups sad lol
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 45 pts · 5d
I saw this at chapters yesterday and there is no way to clean this thing:
https://www.indigo.ca/products/front-peekaboo-dragon-mug
There’s a hollow behind the dragin, you can’t fit a brush or sponge back there, it doesn’t look like you can put this in the dishwasher… so it’s going to be a bacterial breeding ground.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 30 pts · 5d
Just put it in your autoclave.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world · 3 pts · 5d
I have one for my sex toys.
justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 5d
i was thinking to get a sonic cleaning thingy for my glasses, that might work here too
Crackhappy@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 5d
pressure wash?
WolfLink@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 5d
I mean at least that’s not on the part of the cup you drink from.
justme@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 5d
high pressure water jet :) at least that's not the part to drink from.
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 2d
Shit like this used to use resin
edinbruh@feddit.it · 11 pts · 5d
I don't think it's a problem for the washing machine
wuffah@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 5d
Let me guess, hand wash only, not microwave safe, and that donut graphic is a decal?
Oh, you buy one of these every year at Universal Studios and never do dishes?
Oh man, rent will be late this month? Don’t worry, that’s not a surprise.
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 5d
This is a weird fantasy you've cooked up here. Umm, you doing okay?
Krudler@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 5d
You can see what the guy was going for but it went over like a brick cloud
wuffah@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 5d
Other than hand-washing everyone’s crappy novelty mugs, I’m perfectly fine.
It looks like I’ve triggered the local fans of CRAPPY MUGS THAT SUCK, so I’ll just say please consider dishwasher safety when visiting your local cheap mug retailer or wash your own damn mugs.
shweddy@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 5d
How many holes does it have?
chtk@feddit.nl · 26 pts · 5d
Obligatory standupmaths: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XUKxM7ZBao%3Ft%3D351
It's three.
volore@scribe.disroot.org · 13 pts · 5d
I'm guessing two, but I'm no topologist (though I have watched a fair bit of Cliff Stoll...).
ignotum@lemmy.world · 68 pts · 5d
I think it's three, the handle, the donut hole, then there's the hole/tunnel formed inside of the cup
EDIT: there seems to be some confusion around what i mean, maybe this illustration will clear it up:
BigGovernment@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 5d
At first glance I would have said two, the handle and the donut hole. After reading and considering your answer, I'm pretty confident you're right. The space between the tunnel formed by the donut hole and the mug itself forms an odd hole, but there it is.
Kudos, that's a fun little puzzle.
jdr@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 5d
I'm a topologist, and this is correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-torus
jxk@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 5d
Isn't the 3-torus a 3-dimensional space? The surgace of this mug is two-dimensional. But I agree that it's a "torus with three holes"
valar@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 5d
Not a topological 'hole' but you can count it if you preferI was wrong, its three! Posted this too early this morning.
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 5d
No, they're right. Normally the interior of the mug isn't a topological hole as it only has the one "exit". But when you connect the surfaces for the center hole, it creates a third hole in the interior of the mug. The handle loop (1), the interior of the donut hole (2), and the exterior of the donut hole and the walls and bottom of the interior (3).
valar@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 5d
Shit, you're right. I was thinking of a normal mug. So "adding the donut hole" actually created two holes.
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 5d
Okay, if a torus with a single patch of empty space on its surface is two holes, then this is three holes. But now I'm confused, because I don't know if that's true topologically. Otherwise, it's just a two-torus with a perforation on its 2-surface.
Edit: I've been informed by a topologist friend that this has two holes and that the lip of the mug is just a boundary.
Edit 3: Ignore the case below if the lip is a smooth curve. I had a brainfart when thinking through the loop contraction.
Edit 2: So to clarify, that's a boundary if the lip represents an abrupt transition to either side (i.e. if there's no "curve" into and out of the mug).
Since that's less realistic, let's assume that you can smoothly walk from the interior surface of the mug to the exterior and show that it isn't topologically a hole for that case either.
I've created a continuous loop around the two holes and the candidate "lip hole". These loops are embedded in the surface of the mug. You can plainly see that you can't contract the loop to a single point around the handle hole or the donut hole without crossing over the hole.
But now let's take our blue loop (the lip loop) and trivially contract it down to a point.
Our loop is on the outside around the lip.
Take the loop inside of the lip since this is still a smooth, continous surface. The loop is now on the outer wall of the inner mug.
Now bring the loop down toward the bottom along the wall.
Contract the loop to a single point at the bottom.
In this case, it isn't even a boundary anymore, and it provably isn't a hole.
ignotum@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 5d
If we ignore the handle, the torus with a surface opening can be deformed continuously into an 8 shape, the lip of the mug is not a hole, but you can go down the lip of the mug, around the tube in the middle, and back out, a fully enclosed path
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 5d
It's three. The hole through the center makes a hole around it inside the mug. Your topologist friend took too quick a glance at this.
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
Yeah, the hole through the center is one hole (the "donut hole"). The handle is the other (the "handle hole").
Topologically, the lip of the mug is a boundary, not a hole. This object is of genus 2 given it's a 2-manifold.
Edit: The explanation below is the product of a brainfart.
~~But we can show this assuming the lip isn't an abrupt boundary and that instead that the outer wall of the inner loop is part of the same side as the outside of the mug (i.e. that you can continuously walk on the surface from the outside past the lip without crossing an abrupt boundary, which more closely matches the physical reality of this mug).~~~
Watch this: imagine a loop around the hole of a donut. Now try to contract that loop down. Without cutting it, you can't.Now take a loop around the lip of this coffee mug. You can contract it to a point by bringing it all over the lip of the mug, then inside, along the outer walls, and then finally down to the bottom of the mug. It all meets up there. No hole. There's the donut hole and the handle hole, but the colloquial "hole" is either a boundary if the lip is flat or not even a boundary if it continuously curves inward.tgt@programming.dev · 2 pts · 5d
Nope, donut hole is in the way.
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
Ah, you're right. Brainfart. I forgot about that. I guess I can't think of a way to contract it to a point then.
NichtElias@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 5d
I still don't get how it's supposed to be two holes. I mean how is the part where the liquid would be in in this cup not a hole?
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 5d
Topologically, that part is not a hole. The liquid basin not being a hole is where the joke in the OP originates, even: a standard coffee mug with a basin for coffee and a handle is homeomorphic (topologically equivalent) to a torus (a donut). And that's because the handle is the hole, not the basin.
In the case of the OP, ignore the handle for a second just to simplify things. That's a hollowed-out donut (torus) except that you've taken a part of that donut's surface and cut it out. That area that's been cut out isn't topologically a hole; instead, you've just created a boundary on the 2-manifold (read: flexible surface).
Topology has rigorous, algebraic definitions under the hood, but that's what's going on in this picture topologically: you've taken a donut, glued it to another donut, and cut a "hole" (colloquial usage) in the double-donut's surface, creating a boundary on the surface.
Edit: To hopefully justify this a bit intuitively for the standard coffee mug (not this abomination in the OP), the utilities problem is a classic toy problem in topology that
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler is unsolvable on a 2D plane :::
but
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler can be solved when you embed it into the surface of a coffee mug. :::
volore@scribe.disroot.org · 2 pts · 5d
see I figured it was two, being that I've seen the transformation of a coffee mug into a torus, I know the lip can be basically "flattened"
tjsauce@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 5d
I think only the main hole counts if we consider access to the inside. The donut hole is formed by, but does not penetrate the cup.
Not sure how the handle fits in, seing as it has no inner surface
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 5d
How does the handle have no "inner surface?"
SarahValentine@pawb.social · 1 pts · 5d
It's solid inside rather than hollow.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
Ah, I see. Well, it's still a hole.
SarahValentine@pawb.social · 1 pts · 5d
Yes, the hole through the handle loop. The person you were replying to was talking about a potential hole inside the handle itself.
ignotum@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
The hole in a normal cup that provides access to the inside of the cup is not a topological hole, so a normal cup has just one hole, and it is formed by the handle
Broadfern@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 5d
Yes
zaphod@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 5d
Three.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 5d
Things you can ask about a putt-putt coarse, but not your friends partner.
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 5d
I prefer a putt-putt fine but to each their own.
queermunist@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 5d
Is this some fucking thing where there's 0 holes and the topologists can be all smug about their fun little logic puzzle?
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 5d
0 is a hole number.
ccunning@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
Enough
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 5d
It comes with a voucher for a free ambulance ride but in order to use it, you have to agree not to sue for genital injuries.
itsgroundhogdayagain@lemmy.ml · 26 pts · 5d
How much mold is in the bottom? Nobody knows
bampop@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 5d
For anyone still on the fence maybe this helps
spacehulk@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 5d
Lol what
Varesti@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 5d
That made it worse!
craftrabbit@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 5d
Aah, thanks that's really cool
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 4d
Thanks, can you ruin it some more?
runner_g@piefed.blahaj.zone · 14 pts · 5d
Someone took BlenderGuru's tutorial too far.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 5d
Bacteria love this one simple trick...
Up_dog@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 5d
It looks like a mangled, prolapsed fleshlight that Jeffery dahmer would have.
muzzle@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 5d
No, it doesn't
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 5d
Right? A normal mug has one topological hole. This one has 3. Surely that makes it 3 times as topologically interesting as a normal mug.
davetortoise@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 5d
Three holes
xavier666@lemmy.umucat.day · 1 pts · 5d
expatriado@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 5d
if the topologist works as a dishwasher...
Magister@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 5d
ah :) the cylinder, I see you are a redditor
restingOface@quokk.au · 8 pts · 5d
the seitan belugas at twilight
ThunderclapSasquatch@startrek.website · 2 pts · 5d
We will meet again at the hour of scampering
Ramsesder13te@feddit.org · 6 pts · 5d
I think a topologist would love it.
lugal@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 5d
When topologists say, a mug is a donut, this is not what they mean
SalamiDommie@lemmus.org · 4 pts · 5d
I should call her
Chl0r0f0rm_Angel@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 5d
Ah yes, the sore throat mug
InterestingUsername@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 5d
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 5d
Every mug with an ear is already a donut! Stop overcomplicating things!
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 5d
Nah, they love discussing holes in things.
Fucking perverts.
WraithGear@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 5d
this mug has 2 holes.
edinbruh@feddit.it · 6 pts · 5d
I think it has 3
WraithGear@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 5d
the cavity, by definition should not be a hole
edinbruh@feddit.it · 5 pts · 5d
The cavity is not a cavity, because there's the walls of the second hole passing through it
WraithGear@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
by jove! i think you are right!
Cort@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 2 pts · 5d
"How many doughnut mugs can you stack on it?"