We need to collectively abandon tech that insists on any of this. I post about this often, but I'll say it again: this will come with discomfort; you need to be okay with that temporarily.
These ghouls cannot withstand weeks / months of boycott. They simply can't, daddy earning reports and the shareholders won't allow it.
ID required for computer use in general has to be my line in the sand and that scares the fuck outta me. I have no idea how to make ends meet for the people who depend on me, if I have to walk away from computers, but there has to be a line somewhere.
The problem is that they made people addicted first. This is like saying "Everyone, we need to boycott heroin until they stop cutting it with fentanyl!"
What we need is to take over the government and enact and enforce laws against this. Hopefully by voting.
Its like the first thing in my post "this will cause discomfort"
I didn't say it was going to be easy at all, its going to be hard, but with some conviction in the values / morals informing your reason for protest its actually easy after that initial week is over.
Edit: its also infinitely easier to enact change like this in your own life than to smash a grand slam with a "government takeover.". Not saying that wouldn't be great, but let's start with the things we have control over.
Hopefully not by voting. I absolutely loath peoples misplaced trust in bureaucratic mechanisms. If you want something done you do it, I'm not going to vote for someone in one of the pre-approved parties, just for them to give 40 reasons why it's unreasonable. You are never allowed to vote when it could actually create change, remember that.
Sheeeit, I live in a state where we directly voted for a particular thing, like overwhelmingly the public said "yeah, do things this way for fuck's sake!"
And the legislators? They said "we don't think that's in your best interest, actually, so no, don't think we will". And that was the end of that. (Actually not really, they did similar stuff with a couple other things too, including screwing our teachers enough to get them to organize a bit despite how heavy their workloads already are, damn was I eager to help with that!).
Voting to solve problems. Lol!!
::: spoiler spoiler
Dear reader, if this is you, you don't have to begin anew the tired recapitulation of the arguments - I do vote, like a chump, every chance I get, while also knowing we simply cannot vote our way out of this, that has been engineered (and continually is!) to never happen.
:::
Bingo. Voting does absolutely nothing & has never solved anything. All you’re doing is replacing corrupt politicians with more corrupt politicians in which the majority of them are bought & paid for & are handpicked by their wealthy donors.
It’s one of the reasons why I left the Democrat party in late 2022 & became politically homeless & turned to Anarchy.
The real answer, is something like grassroots. Civil disobedience. General strikes. A riot. A revolution. Those are what will spark real change. Voting is an illusion of choice. A sham. A fool’s errand.
No it won't be all tech, that's just giving into FUD. People run servers out of their house, people write software. People used to use websites Joe Shmoe wrote and ran in his basement. If you choose to use things like meta and google it is exactly that, a choice. Tor network, I2P network, Gnutella, freenet, usenet, torrenting, these are and always will be options unless the entire internet infrastructure is burned to the ground.
I fucking guess. I am at the point where I will take my children out of school if they are forced to do face scans or give any ID in order to participate and learn. I’m almost at the point where I would rather lose my job than comply with this
It is appalling, but I could see parents from 20 years ago being less concerned than now. Of course back then they weren’t aggregating user data to today’s level, at least I don’t think.
What bothers me too are things like Palintir. Like, I don’t want my kid in some massive police database before they even turn 12
I’m 100% not convinced that it will stay this way. This, to me, is a push towards ID verification. Age verification is a first step. To me, it feels more like a step towards building an infrastructure to track any user
a step towards building an infrastructure to track any user
I'm inclined to believe that infrastructure already exists (both state intelligence services and corpos like Meta), this is about being able to use it in the legal system and getting people to self censor.
Biometrics are only collected around 5 years old, and only for the indicators, while signature only is requested around 7, after pre-school or first year of literacy.
Photo is taken with days or weeks. The state, all of us, recognize everyone as a citizens and their rights from birth.
Won't help much when the internet requires devices be verified by Google Play or equivalent to log into any accounts or do anything.
I guess maybe you can paint pictures and self-host things on your DIY OS, but the stuff web like banking etc that integrates you into society won't be accessible.
bust open a pre-code copy of ‘How to build Linux from scratch’
Short term, that'll help. Long term, it won't.
Sure, you can do that. Then what? If every single site requires a secure attestation from an identity service before you can use it, you re boned. Want to shop? Bank? Social media? Check the gd weather? If the site won't serve you w/o a strong identity proof, then linux won't save you. Linux will be an island.
IDK if it'll get that far. But it isn't that far fetched. Already today, I estimate 50% of site I try to use won't answer me if I totally block fingerprints and use a VPN. I'm talking mundane shit, recipes, car repair info, w/e. If I remove my privacy protections, they work fine. Nothing stops that from happening to any OS that deosn't prove a trusted ID attestation.
This is such a weird stance given the actual change that was made. No actual age verification, no external communication of any kind. All that got added is a number field. The ability to store a number labeled "age" for user accounts. That's it.
There already is a field for first name and last name. You can leave them blank as well (most probably do). If any software requires a number to be there, just enter 99 or whatever. Unless this gets severely worse this is such a nothing-burger.
I'm not happy about any step into that direction either, but pick your battles (or hill I guess). This certainly is a weird one.
i came here to say this but with WAAAY MORE words -- well done!
i think the fact that this community is so averse to admitting that this is a trend and the second such example of the foss community pre-complying w the epstein class' expectations speaks to an political ideology to refuses to accept that fascism is here.
no mention of guix on a systemd less distro list is crazy. not that i use guix, and im fine with systemd as a nixos user, but it feels like guix is the anti nixos. the richard stallman version of nixos with all the pros and cons that come with that
I’ll have to give Devuan a look! I’m planning on a server style project next time, so I shouldn’t be crushed too hard by any peculiarities of the init system(s) I try
Linux so far is mostly exempt and it's the big corporations like Microsoft, Apple, and Google who actually want it so they can sell that info and use it for ads. For Linux, just consider it one more criteria for choosing your distribution if it comes around. If the distro adds it as a requirement for install, then move to another. Fortunately there are lots of good ones these days.
Enjoy not being able to use your bank, major websites, email, online shopping, pay utility bills, do basic and required civic functions online (that require alternatives of driving long distances and/or waiting on the phone for long periods of time), etc because your open source operating system doesn't pass the attestation check.
Maybe not long after Google, Cloudflare and others will just block you behind anti-bot defenses because you don't pass such a check and only bots would not pass such a check.
Hiding on Linux is not a solution to a legal problem. It's at best punting.
This stuff is either defeated or you'll enjoy living as a hermit cut off from society with your perfectly private, perfectly offline computer.
What I'm about to say, I say only as an alternative in conjunction with fighting legislatively: It's time many of us alter our behaviors to accommodate these crackdowns. Not as a matter of subservience, please don't think I mean it that way, but as a matter of practicality and survival. Make cash withdrawals when possible to pay for goods and services. Transition back to paper bills. Separate from computers where you can, while also understanding that the places you can't, you're just going to have to deal with the bullshit. Resist where practical, if only for your own sanity.
Well said. A lot of the freedoms we enjoy are a use it or lose it scenario. For example a business is more likely to stop accepting cash if only 1% of their customers use it, so I still use it even though I would often prefer my card.
That does sound enjoyable. I wouldn't consider that a hermit though, quite the opposite. Going out in my own neighborhood and doing things sounds much better than all that other crap. That is actually being part of society.
I am not sure this is the negative you think it is. If my electric company and bank wont give my an avenue to simply pay bills (I hate online bill pay already) and I don't have to spend hours trying to talk to an AI chat bot online for costumer support, I am not sure I care that much.
If my bank is uninterested in serving me then maybe I need to change banks. Fuck them. I know you are going to say they will all be this way. Ok set up my own, I have gotten around this bullshit before.
I already to deal with a lot of this. I am not allowed to interact with a lot of places due to region bullshit when I am working remotely in various countries. It is already annoying.
If general computers are outlawed, only outlaws will have general computers.
I use an open source browser with a hardware TAN generator for banking. I pay with an NFC card. All the websites I care about work with open standards. Fuck the rest. I am perfectly able to run my own email servers. If online shopping requres proprietary bullshit they lose me as a customer. My bills are direct debit. No, there are no basic and requred civic functions that must happen online. I simply walk or go there to do that in person.
I am already frequently blocked by Cloudflare because I use an always on VPN and only open source tooling. I simply cease to use such services.
You are correct that the proper solution to fascism is to go away or to kill them.
I will not comply. I do not care how hard it makes my life. This is a line in the sand I will not cross. If a social media asks me to upload my government-issued ID, that's the end of that social media. If a computer asks me to use my government ID to use it, that's not a computer I will use. The only online service I can see that would need my government issued ID is my bank. And that's only because they are required to collect it in order for me to have an account. Everything else can go fuck right off.
The only thing I’m most worried about is losing my job over non compliance. I can handle not participating in society. But if that’s what it takes to draw the line, I’m really considering it now and finding an alternative way to live. It’s dumb that this can even be allowed. But at this point, it’s obvious that the top just wants wage slaves to exploit in every way possible. I can’t imagine my kids growing up like that, ya know? It’s got to stop
Currently, the age requirement is attestation. You click through an age gate.
So essentially its the same as most social media, which currently requires you are over 13. Kids have long learned to lie about their age to set up social media accounts.
Laws may get passed to require an ID check or confirmation, but at that point that'll require telling the device (and its corporate masters) your identity and I think that's going to interact with privacy rights.
I learned in the USENET days to adopt a handle, to keep my meat identity separate from my online identity. We're going to have to learn that again.
Work is an interesting point. Maybe working with a computer (a till, a barcode scanner, a stock checker, a multimeter) will be the thing that gets people scooped up and compliant first - even if you are using a work device, on a work network, on the business premises. If you want the $10 an hour: "gotta scan your ID, or you can't activate the wafflegrill"
I’m waiting for the selfie required logins. Right now, you log into YouTube or anything else with that user base and they want a selfie and a phone number. YouTube even asks for your address. You can skip. For now.
Shut the fuck up, nobody cares about your robot fanfiction. Know your fucking place, trash! Fucking robots, I don't talk about no robots. They got no soul.
The Linux exemptions in Cali and Colorado bring up something else if that gets followed on a broader scale: Can't apps and services just start blocking Linux and start specifically demanding Windows or Mac?
Imagine a world where everyone is connected via brain implants. Reality is fully augmented and thoughts are bought and sold while being carefully screened for violations. Only individuals with enough credits can be free in their own minds. What makes us human gets lost as we progress into the singularity.
Sad thing is, is that the majority of people are too lazy, cowardly, propagandized & weak-willed. We need to be like the citizens like Hong Kong & Sri Lanka from riots against their governments (& Nepal as of recently when their government tried Identity Verification).
We need to be putting the blame towards the World Economic Forum for introducing this bullshit & our corrupt governments for kowtowing to them.
It's even sadder when you consider that SOPA caused a mass blackout protest which ultimately got it hidden away until its chance to reappear and this time maybe actually become law.
No one's doing any sort of mass blackout protests this time around.
No one has any savings left in case our jobs terminate us after receiving a threatening letter signed by Kash Patel over continuing to employ us after a Flock camera identified us at the protest that the news is reporting was filled with pedophiles mad about protecting children.
Because it’s all by design. They need to find a way to make time, especially when it comes to their rights. Everyone who fought in the civil rights war for our rights had. And that’s just one example.
If you think that some asshole won't be willing to legislate that away, think again. It might be the last refuge, but it is entirely possible to shut that down
You do it for every single thing you do online. The goal of many govs and big tech is to gate everything behind an attestation requirement. Everything.
That's the point. The initial move here is extremely weak attestation. You can just lie to it, or use an OSS OS. But they won't stop there. If everything gets gated behind strong attestation, then all those things become off limits to Linux. Sure, you can keep using your Linux box in your house. That cannot be stopped. But what CAN be stopped, is your ability to do anything whatsoever with it which requires the internet. Heck, even the ability to get a n/w connection can be gated.
You sure do. I don't think you quite realize the possible implications.
So you think everyone will just abandon free software?
Everyone? No. Ofc not. But most home users? Yes. If we ever see strong attestation gating requiring a "trusted" OS, then I expect most who use linux today would abandon it. B/c everything they want to do, won't work. But it will work with Android, IOS, Windows. Big-tech trusted platforms. Data centers and so on will be able to use Linux... by abiding the attestation reqs.
Ofc it won't be every single last person or every single use. There are offline uses for computers too. But normal ppl want to use online services with that laptop on their desk. They want to bank. Shop. Use social media. Etc.
You still think there are things you can do on the internet that won't be affected by this
Are you actually naive, or are you being intentionally obtuse?
So you think everyone will just abandon free software?
Free software will no longer work with anything important online for participation in society. Therefore it will never take off. Therefore all consumers will be herded into cloud-streamed software on little baby walled garden tablets and fed AI answers with system prompts instructing the model not to talk about sensitive subjects. What genocide in Gaza? The Gazans are HAPPY about the ceasefire! Trumps name in the Epstien files? Turns out Adam Schiff doctored the evidence, he was never in the Epstien files! America votes for Eric to be the next President! 1000 years Trump dynasty! You'll never get tired of winning!
Don't say anything bad though, or they'll fucking debank you
You can legislate it to the point that it's only possible to spread or hand to hand, and doing so is illegal. Hell, they could go a step further and make just having a copy of it within your house illegal, even if it wasn't installable.
In any real terms, that means the only way to keep a foss os is to build it entirely yourself. Not build it from source, but code the source from the ground up. It would take time to happen, but when enough time passes, both only do the skills necessary to do that fade, but hardware changes being closed would add another layer of difficulty. Look at the pain in the ass that android rom developers have trying to get AOSP going on a given device.
I get it, I get the dream of a dedicated and determined underground keeping Linux alove under an oppressive regime, but it isn't realistic
I don't agree. They would have to ban the entirety of free software, in which case they'd take down pretty much the entirety of all software in the process.
As I pointed out, and is already actively underway on mobiles with regards to GrapheneOS and LineageOS, apps and services could always start blocking Linux.
This blanket statement does not capture the reality / nuance. They are pro AI in the sense of using it as a tool for development not to shackle the entire human race into a surveillance state.
Yeah, Twitter did already because I connected with a VPN once. Good, no more Twitter then.
People need to fight back! But I guess it's already too late. They've already succeeded in dividing the young people, so there can be no coordination or solidarity. Brainrot is real!
Too early to admit defeat. Young people have their limits, too, and grow more aware of the shortcomings of modern corporate tech than their parents. They are also the first to embrace new circumvention techniques, along with entire new ways of communication.
What makes you think your device has anything to do with it?
It'll be Netflix, your bank, the DMV, email clients, forums, reddit, TikTok, Facebook, Intuit products like TurboTax and Quickbooks, various GIS systems, mobile providers, app stores, games, rideshares, food delivery, amazon, twitch, X, they'll probably make some laws that Lemmy has to be blocked unless they do it, etc.
"We're sorry, your operating system does not support legally-required methods of age verification. Please upgrade to an Amazon Fire Tablet where everything runs from the cloud and its impossible to do anything except what we allow you. Please drink a verification can."
But you estimated my level of spite too low. 🙃 I'm using outdated OS's; sure everyone argues security, but nobody is going to bother with you when you're one out of a million, why not just find an exploit for the million right?
As far as what you mentioned, I pretty much don't use any of that stuff anyway other than lemmy and facebook crap (for international friends). The bank and dmv, lol those idiots just had a major data breach where I live, require an ID already, I go there physically.
A lot of things I do, are done through software and physical proxies.
Whatever requires me to make an account or download a cr'app; I just find something else to do.
I check on whatever info is floating on the web that's easy to access. As far as I'm known, I'm Japanese, Married to an ex, and live in another state.
At the end of the day, if push comes to shove, I have plenty of other things to do and get done that play these age verification games.
The wall is for the rest of the world, the usa had its chance to be decent and chose to be the exact opposite for many decades. Now even with something as revolting as trump, the people still show no sign at all of ever waking up and being decent.
157 Comments
Sanguine@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 62 pts · 14h
We need to collectively abandon tech that insists on any of this. I post about this often, but I'll say it again: this will come with discomfort; you need to be okay with that temporarily.
These ghouls cannot withstand weeks / months of boycott. They simply can't, daddy earning reports and the shareholders won't allow it.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 11h
ID required for computer use in general has to be my line in the sand and that scares the fuck outta me. I have no idea how to make ends meet for the people who depend on me, if I have to walk away from computers, but there has to be a line somewhere.
4am@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 13h
The problem is that they made people addicted first. This is like saying "Everyone, we need to boycott heroin until they stop cutting it with fentanyl!"
What we need is to take over the government and enact and enforce laws against this. Hopefully by voting.
Sanguine@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 13h
Its like the first thing in my post "this will cause discomfort"
I didn't say it was going to be easy at all, its going to be hard, but with some conviction in the values / morals informing your reason for protest its actually easy after that initial week is over.
Edit: its also infinitely easier to enact change like this in your own life than to smash a grand slam with a "government takeover.". Not saying that wouldn't be great, but let's start with the things we have control over.
Also, you can just do both; vote and boycott...
eleitl@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 10h
Pick up fpv drone flying as a hobby. Try out fiber optic drones.
procapra@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 12h
Hopefully not by voting. I absolutely loath peoples misplaced trust in bureaucratic mechanisms. If you want something done you do it, I'm not going to vote for someone in one of the pre-approved parties, just for them to give 40 reasons why it's unreasonable. You are never allowed to vote when it could actually create change, remember that.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 11h
Sheeeit, I live in a state where we directly voted for a particular thing, like overwhelmingly the public said "yeah, do things this way for fuck's sake!"
And the legislators? They said "we don't think that's in your best interest, actually, so no, don't think we will". And that was the end of that. (Actually not really, they did similar stuff with a couple other things too, including screwing our teachers enough to get them to organize a bit despite how heavy their workloads already are, damn was I eager to help with that!).
Voting to solve problems. Lol!!
::: spoiler spoiler Dear reader, if this is you, you don't have to begin anew the tired recapitulation of the arguments - I do vote, like a chump, every chance I get, while also knowing we simply cannot vote our way out of this, that has been engineered (and continually is!) to never happen. :::
MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social · 6 pts · 7h
Run for office, then. And if that isn't possible, then it's time for more radical measures.
Voting won't fix everything, but there is a good reason voter suppression exists and why most people had to have their right to vote fought for.
SpaceCrystal@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 11h
Bingo. Voting does absolutely nothing & has never solved anything. All you’re doing is replacing corrupt politicians with more corrupt politicians in which the majority of them are bought & paid for & are handpicked by their wealthy donors.
It’s one of the reasons why I left the Democrat party in late 2022 & became politically homeless & turned to Anarchy.
The real answer, is something like grassroots. Civil disobedience. General strikes. A riot. A revolution. Those are what will spark real change. Voting is an illusion of choice. A sham. A fool’s errand.
hneerqe@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4h
We've been voting all this time while they dreamed this up in some island. It's unanimous and worldwide. Get real.
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2h
Fuck off with your defeatist bullshit. Get in the streets and help protest
DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 13h
So abandon everything then?
RoddyStiggs@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 12h
No, just tech that demands age
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 11h
which is going to be all tech legally required to :(
I grew up in a time of technology being a liberating force that helped us live in a society more firmly based on individual rights.
I no longer live in that world.
gandalfthewhite@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 6h
No it won't be all tech, that's just giving into FUD. People run servers out of their house, people write software. People used to use websites Joe Shmoe wrote and ran in his basement. If you choose to use things like meta and google it is exactly that, a choice. Tor network, I2P network, Gnutella, freenet, usenet, torrenting, these are and always will be options unless the entire internet infrastructure is burned to the ground.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 4h
All tech?
Not doubting, just hoping for a little more sanity.
ianhclark510@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 52 pts · 18h
Sigh, guess it’s time to bust open a pre-code copy of ‘How to build Linux from scratch’
iloveyou@lemmy.zip · 25 pts · 18h
I fucking guess. I am at the point where I will take my children out of school if they are forced to do face scans or give any ID in order to participate and learn. I’m almost at the point where I would rather lose my job than comply with this
MouldyCat@feddit.uk · 12 pts · 16h
don't know where you live, but here in the ol' U of K, schools have been doing that sort of thing for over 20 years! I was appalled when I first heard about it, and I think it was from a friend whose kids had to give fingerprints. "Oh yes I know - big brother, but it's so convenient" was their attitude.
iloveyou@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 15h
It is appalling, but I could see parents from 20 years ago being less concerned than now. Of course back then they weren’t aggregating user data to today’s level, at least I don’t think.
What bothers me too are things like Palintir. Like, I don’t want my kid in some massive police database before they even turn 12
gog@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 15h
You should do that regardless, who's in his sane mind would trust his kids minds to the gov
artyom@piefed.social · -4 pts · 18h
Children don't usually have ID. You only need to provide ID to prove you're an adult.
iloveyou@lemmy.zip · 21 pts · 18h
I’m 100% not convinced that it will stay this way. This, to me, is a push towards ID verification. Age verification is a first step. To me, it feels more like a step towards building an infrastructure to track any user
MalReynolds@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 14h
I'm inclined to believe that infrastructure already exists (both state intelligence services and corpos like Meta), this is about being able to use it in the legal system and getting people to self censor.
4am@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 13h
For normal activities this absolutely exists, and when you are just being you on the internet, a nation state could easily track you down.
However, it's exploitable and avoidable. Probably not entirely, but if you want to you can make their life difficult.
They won't stop until your digital identification cryptographically signs every packet you send, I guarantee it.
artyom@piefed.social · 3 pts · 18h
It won't but that's the way it is now.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 11h
My country provides ID from birth.
Biometrics are only collected around 5 years old, and only for the indicators, while signature only is requested around 7, after pre-school or first year of literacy.
Photo is taken with days or weeks. The state, all of us, recognize everyone as a citizens and their rights from birth.
artyom@piefed.social · 0 pts · 11h
I didn't say anything about having ID. I said you only need to submit ID to get access to adult content.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 10h
Not really.
I got surprised a few months back with a shopping site requesting age verification. Of all things.
artyom@piefed.social · 0 pts · 9h
What site? Were they selling adult products?
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 8h
A small scale site in my country. And I was trying to purchase ropes, for making dog leashes.
Zagorath@quokk.au · 2 pts · 9h
Australia has age verification to access social media, with an age minimum of 16. I've heard other countries are thinking of following.
yestalgia@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 17h
Won't help much when the internet requires devices be verified by Google Play or equivalent to log into any accounts or do anything.
I guess maybe you can paint pictures and self-host things on your DIY OS, but the stuff web like banking etc that integrates you into society won't be accessible.
LeighWeighTacoma@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2h
One cheap shitty android phone for adulting, the PC and main phone for existing. But they might come for that too eventually.
moldy_rice@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com · 1 pts · 2h
I don't even have Google Play, so not an issue
FineCoatMummy@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 17h
Short term, that'll help. Long term, it won't.
Sure, you can do that. Then what? If every single site requires a secure attestation from an identity service before you can use it, you re boned. Want to shop? Bank? Social media? Check the gd weather? If the site won't serve you w/o a strong identity proof, then linux won't save you. Linux will be an island.
IDK if it'll get that far. But it isn't that far fetched. Already today, I estimate 50% of site I try to use won't answer me if I totally block fingerprints and use a VPN. I'm talking mundane shit, recipes, car repair info, w/e. If I remove my privacy protections, they work fine. Nothing stops that from happening to any OS that deosn't prove a trusted ID attestation.
adwijoma@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 11h
On those sites, have you tried VPN + ad blocking?
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 18h
i'm going to switch to devuan since systemd already pre-complied wo anyone commanding them to.
Creat@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 17h
This is such a weird stance given the actual change that was made. No actual age verification, no external communication of any kind. All that got added is a number field. The ability to store a number labeled "age" for user accounts. That's it.
There already is a field for first name and last name. You can leave them blank as well (most probably do). If any software requires a number to be there, just enter 99 or whatever. Unless this gets severely worse this is such a nothing-burger.
I'm not happy about any step into that direction either, but pick your battles (or hill I guess). This certainly is a weird one.
4am@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 13h
"As a frog, you should wait until the water is already boiling before you hop"
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1h
i came here to say this but with WAAAY MORE words -- well done!
i think the fact that this community is so averse to admitting that this is a trend and the second such example of the foss community pre-complying w the epstein class' expectations speaks to an political ideology to refuses to accept that fascism is here.
who@feddit.org · 8 pts · 17h
Devuan, AntiX, and MX Linux all seem worth a look for people wanting to avoid systemd. More are listed here:
https://itsfoss.com/systemd-free-distros/
https://systemdfree.com/#distros
(FWIW, I think systemd's age data collection is optional, at least for now. It's not clear which Linux distros will implement/adopt it by default.)
Euphoma@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 16h
no mention of guix on a systemd less distro list is crazy. not that i use guix, and im fine with systemd as a nixos user, but it feels like guix is the anti nixos. the richard stallman version of nixos with all the pros and cons that come with that
tomenzgg@midwest.social · 2 pts · 10h
I run mine with the
nonguixrepository so I don't think Stallman would approve of how I lead my life (with all the pros and cons that come with that).ianhclark510@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 3h
I’ll have to give Devuan a look! I’m planning on a server style project next time, so I shouldn’t be crushed too hard by any peculiarities of the init system(s) I try
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 9m
i chose it because there's not much to look at -- it's just ordinary/vanilla debian without systemd.
irotsoma@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 15h
Linux so far is mostly exempt and it's the big corporations like Microsoft, Apple, and Google who actually want it so they can sell that info and use it for ads. For Linux, just consider it one more criteria for choosing your distribution if it comes around. If the distro adds it as a requirement for install, then move to another. Fortunately there are lots of good ones these days.
eleitl@lemmy.zip · 33 pts · 10h
Open/libre source operating systems won't. No matter where you live. As long as all purpose computers exist.
Majestic@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 9h
Enjoy not being able to use your bank, major websites, email, online shopping, pay utility bills, do basic and required civic functions online (that require alternatives of driving long distances and/or waiting on the phone for long periods of time), etc because your open source operating system doesn't pass the attestation check.
Maybe not long after Google, Cloudflare and others will just block you behind anti-bot defenses because you don't pass such a check and only bots would not pass such a check.
Hiding on Linux is not a solution to a legal problem. It's at best punting.
This stuff is either defeated or you'll enjoy living as a hermit cut off from society with your perfectly private, perfectly offline computer.
Garbagio@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 9h
What I'm about to say, I say only as an alternative in conjunction with fighting legislatively: It's time many of us alter our behaviors to accommodate these crackdowns. Not as a matter of subservience, please don't think I mean it that way, but as a matter of practicality and survival. Make cash withdrawals when possible to pay for goods and services. Transition back to paper bills. Separate from computers where you can, while also understanding that the places you can't, you're just going to have to deal with the bullshit. Resist where practical, if only for your own sanity.
custom_username@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 23m
Well said. A lot of the freedoms we enjoy are a use it or lose it scenario. For example a business is more likely to stop accepting cash if only 1% of their customers use it, so I still use it even though I would often prefer my card.
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 2h
How about you shut up with your defeatist bullshit and help push back
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 3h
That does sound enjoyable. I wouldn't consider that a hermit though, quite the opposite. Going out in my own neighborhood and doing things sounds much better than all that other crap. That is actually being part of society.
I am not sure this is the negative you think it is. If my electric company and bank wont give my an avenue to simply pay bills (I hate online bill pay already) and I don't have to spend hours trying to talk to an AI chat bot online for costumer support, I am not sure I care that much.
If my bank is uninterested in serving me then maybe I need to change banks. Fuck them. I know you are going to say they will all be this way. Ok set up my own, I have gotten around this bullshit before.
I already to deal with a lot of this. I am not allowed to interact with a lot of places due to region bullshit when I am working remotely in various countries. It is already annoying.
eleitl@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 1h
If general computers are outlawed, only outlaws will have general computers.
I use an open source browser with a hardware TAN generator for banking. I pay with an NFC card. All the websites I care about work with open standards. Fuck the rest. I am perfectly able to run my own email servers. If online shopping requres proprietary bullshit they lose me as a customer. My bills are direct debit. No, there are no basic and requred civic functions that must happen online. I simply walk or go there to do that in person.
I am already frequently blocked by Cloudflare because I use an always on VPN and only open source tooling. I simply cease to use such services.
You are correct that the proper solution to fascism is to go away or to kill them.
angband@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24m
Besides, less facebook means more sanity. Nothing real happens in 99% of cyberspace.
Edit: so, my bank freaks out if I vpn through Santiago, lemmy.world freaks out if I vpn through Brussels.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip · 28 pts · 7h
I will not comply. I do not care how hard it makes my life. This is a line in the sand I will not cross. If a social media asks me to upload my government-issued ID, that's the end of that social media. If a computer asks me to use my government ID to use it, that's not a computer I will use. The only online service I can see that would need my government issued ID is my bank. And that's only because they are required to collect it in order for me to have an account. Everything else can go fuck right off.
iloveyou@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 5h
The only thing I’m most worried about is losing my job over non compliance. I can handle not participating in society. But if that’s what it takes to draw the line, I’m really considering it now and finding an alternative way to live. It’s dumb that this can even be allowed. But at this point, it’s obvious that the top just wants wage slaves to exploit in every way possible. I can’t imagine my kids growing up like that, ya know? It’s got to stop
moldy_rice@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com · 2 pts · 2h
Monero jobs.
RedSnt@feddit.dk · 26 pts · 3h
Get fucked Illinois.
LeighWeighTacoma@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2h
Their gun laws are inane too
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2h
If by "insane" you mean barely adequate, then I agree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois
recklessengagement@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2h
"Inane" not "insane"
orochi02@feddit.org · 1 pts · 2h
Whats the difference
Frenchgeek@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 1h
They are two different words, with distinct meanings.
Hupf@feddit.org · 2 pts · 58m
No, s is.
HexaBack@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 2h
goddammit of ALL the states, why IL????
RedSnt@feddit.dk · 1 pts · 16m
As a European I didn't know much about Illinois, weird place, ¾th of the whole state live in the metropolitan area around and in Chicago.
DillDough@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 2m
Yeah thats how populations work everywhere, majority of people are in the cities. Europe, as well as the entire rest of the planet is like that.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 23 pts · 9h
Currently, the age requirement is attestation. You click through an age gate.
So essentially its the same as most social media, which currently requires you are over 13. Kids have long learned to lie about their age to set up social media accounts.
Laws may get passed to require an ID check or confirmation, but at that point that'll require telling the device (and its corporate masters) your identity and I think that's going to interact with privacy rights.
I learned in the USENET days to adopt a handle, to keep my meat identity separate from my online identity. We're going to have to learn that again.
monovergent@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 18h
My collection of hoarded media waits eagerly if this forces me to say goodbye to the internet outside of work obligations
Arola@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 10h
Work is an interesting point. Maybe working with a computer (a till, a barcode scanner, a stock checker, a multimeter) will be the thing that gets people scooped up and compliant first - even if you are using a work device, on a work network, on the business premises. If you want the $10 an hour: "gotta scan your ID, or you can't activate the wafflegrill"
Zephorah@discuss.online · 15 pts · 17h
I’m waiting for the selfie required logins. Right now, you log into YouTube or anything else with that user base and they want a selfie and a phone number. YouTube even asks for your address. You can skip. For now.
aim4harmony@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 15h
Oh, yeah. Like those memes with selfie logins to unlock a toilet or fridge.
You log in and then the AI agent will summarize what you're watching and contact the authorities in case it flags you suspicious? How dystopian!
trashboat@piefed.social · 3 pts · 15h
Sorta feels like iOS Face ID played a role in normalizing this for the general public
Zephorah@discuss.online · 1 pts · 1h
Selfies always read as less secure to me. Possibly problematic on bad days or Halloween.
Fingerprint or tapping a code makes more sense.
dan1101@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 17h
Oh well back to C64
crandall@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 18h
If it does it will be the last thing it does
diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 12 pts · 4h
- FilthyFrank
DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf · 12 pts · 17h
The Linux exemptions in Cali and Colorado bring up something else if that gets followed on a broader scale: Can't apps and services just start blocking Linux and start specifically demanding Windows or Mac?
FineCoatMummy@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 17h
In principle? Yes. It could become a complete cryptographic attestation chain.
I don't think we're right on the edge of that rn. But years or decades from now? Who TF knows.
DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf · 7 pts · 16h
I could easily see things like Discord, Meta, Google, Reddit, and Twitter doing this if it came to that, for instance.
MalReynolds@slrpnk.net · 10 pts · 14h
And nothing of value was lost.
Whirling_Cloudburst@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10h
Imagine a world where everyone is connected via brain implants. Reality is fully augmented and thoughts are bought and sold while being carefully screened for violations. Only individuals with enough credits can be free in their own minds. What makes us human gets lost as we progress into the singularity.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4h
My work programs from back when I was in accounting, uh, none of them work on Linux. They haven't even started working on Linux versions.
pglpm@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 17h
Things will just get worse if we don't do something concrete, like organizing protest marches and petitions, going on strike, and similar.
Quoting from an episode of Slow Horses: "heavy on hashtags, light on results".
SpaceCrystal@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 15h
Sad thing is, is that the majority of people are too lazy, cowardly, propagandized & weak-willed. We need to be like the citizens like Hong Kong & Sri Lanka from riots against their governments (& Nepal as of recently when their government tried Identity Verification).
We need to be putting the blame towards the World Economic Forum for introducing this bullshit & our corrupt governments for kowtowing to them.
DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf · 4 pts · 14h
It's even sadder when you consider that SOPA caused a mass blackout protest which ultimately got it hidden away until its chance to reappear and this time maybe actually become law.
No one's doing any sort of mass blackout protests this time around.
4am@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 13h
No one has any savings left in case our jobs terminate us after receiving a threatening letter signed by Kash Patel over continuing to employ us after a Flock camera identified us at the protest that the news is reporting was filled with pedophiles mad about protecting children.
MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social · 2 pts · 7h
It's more complicated than that. A lot of people simply don't have the time and energy after work for this.
A mass movement like this is going to need a support network, much like some of the successful ones in the past.
SpaceCrystal@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3h
MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social · 2 pts · 2h
Yes, they do. And yes. it is. But unfortunately, because of that, most of them will need some level of support and positive encouragement to do so.
SpaceCrystal@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 2h
Reply to my other comment towards you from under it, as I’ve deleted the one there.
SpaceCrystal@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 2h
Because it’s all by design. They need to find a way to make time, especially when it comes to their rights. Everyone who fought in the civil rights war for our rights had. And that’s just one example.
AeonFelis@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 51m
To protect the children, of course.
Zerush@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 3h
I2P and onion don't need it
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2h
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 15h
Pretty sure China doesn't have laws that demand your age.
Sapphy@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 11h
"S-SHUT UP DANKIE."
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 10h
🤣
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 35m
Do you ever talk about anything else? China knows everything about everyone, from your age to the last time you gooned
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 30m
couldn't be more sour could you 🤣
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 46m
The real workaround is using Linux. Age verification isn't truly enforceable in Open Source software
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 3h
What are you supposed to do with work laptops and such that get passed around? Head of IT supposed to submit their ID for each one?
DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf · 6 pts · 13h
Also, if you think the Fediverse is gonna be safe from this, then I have bad news for you. Also, decentralized networks in general could be targeted by this sorta thing if what happened to A/I is any indication.
What happened to those Mastodon instances and to A/I is proof that even decentralized networks can be targeted by censorship.
MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social · 7 pts · 7h
True, the fediverse isn't immune from oppressive governments having physical access to its servers or users.
It does, however, prevent easy worldwide censorship possible with corporate social media, especially those HQed/hosted in SilV.
artyom@piefed.social · 6 pts · 18h
It won't. Ever. Because Linux.
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 18h
If you think that some asshole won't be willing to legislate that away, think again. It might be the last refuge, but it is entirely possible to shut that down
artyom@piefed.social · 10 pts · 18h
Legislate whatever you want, you can't stop free software.
FineCoatMummy@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 17h
No. But you CAN stop providing any online services to free software.
G already has been moving toward requiring a "trusted OS" to get past fucking recaptcha. It isn't rolled out yet. But it could be.
Linux can't stop that, b/c it can just be blocked from everything if the trusted OS attestation isn't present.
DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf · 6 pts · 16h
And hypothetically that reCAPTCHA could also serve as an ID of sorts:
.... That could be a pretty effective way to completely lock down the web. And then moving everyone back to time-sharing on rented terminals will be the final nail in the coffin for personal computing. If Big Tech gets their way, personal computing could be killed off by thin clients or terminal apps connected to a rented cloud server.
artyom@piefed.social · 1 pts · 17h
Good news, I already don't do that. But lots and lots of people do without any company involved at all.
Are you just not going to explain what "G" is?
It...doesnt have to?
FineCoatMummy@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 17h
You do it for every single thing you do online. The goal of many govs and big tech is to gate everything behind an attestation requirement. Everything.
That's the point. The initial move here is extremely weak attestation. You can just lie to it, or use an OSS OS. But they won't stop there. If everything gets gated behind strong attestation, then all those things become off limits to Linux. Sure, you can keep using your Linux box in your house. That cannot be stopped. But what CAN be stopped, is your ability to do anything whatsoever with it which requires the internet. Heck, even the ability to get a n/w connection can be gated.
artyom@piefed.social · 0 pts · 17h
No? I sure don't.
So you think everyone will just abandon free software?
FineCoatMummy@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 17h
You sure do. I don't think you quite realize the possible implications.
Everyone? No. Ofc not. But most home users? Yes. If we ever see strong attestation gating requiring a "trusted" OS, then I expect most who use linux today would abandon it. B/c everything they want to do, won't work. But it will work with Android, IOS, Windows. Big-tech trusted platforms. Data centers and so on will be able to use Linux... by abiding the attestation reqs.
Ofc it won't be every single last person or every single use. There are offline uses for computers too. But normal ppl want to use online services with that laptop on their desk. They want to bank. Shop. Use social media. Etc.
4am@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 13h
You're still out to brunch I see
You still think there are things you can do on the internet that won't be affected by this
Are you actually naive, or are you being intentionally obtuse?
Free software will no longer work with anything important online for participation in society. Therefore it will never take off. Therefore all consumers will be herded into cloud-streamed software on little baby walled garden tablets and fed AI answers with system prompts instructing the model not to talk about sensitive subjects. What genocide in Gaza? The Gazans are HAPPY about the ceasefire! Trumps name in the Epstien files? Turns out Adam Schiff doctored the evidence, he was never in the Epstien files! America votes for Eric to be the next President! 1000 years Trump dynasty! You'll never get tired of winning!
Don't say anything bad though, or they'll fucking debank you
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 13h
You can legislate it to the point that it's only possible to spread or hand to hand, and doing so is illegal. Hell, they could go a step further and make just having a copy of it within your house illegal, even if it wasn't installable.
In any real terms, that means the only way to keep a foss os is to build it entirely yourself. Not build it from source, but code the source from the ground up. It would take time to happen, but when enough time passes, both only do the skills necessary to do that fade, but hardware changes being closed would add another layer of difficulty. Look at the pain in the ass that android rom developers have trying to get AOSP going on a given device.
I get it, I get the dream of a dedicated and determined underground keeping Linux alove under an oppressive regime, but it isn't realistic
artyom@piefed.social · 2 pts · 13h
I don't agree. They would have to ban the entirety of free software, in which case they'd take down pretty much the entirety of all software in the process.
Also TOR is a thing.
treverflume@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 9h
yeah like all these countries across the world aren't getting news outside their firewalls lol
Sergio@piefed.social · 2 pts · 12h
Basically the plot of https://analognowhere.com/
gandalfthewhite@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 18h
You can fine public orgs but it will just go underground unless they permanantly shut off all internet infrastructure which they will not do
DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf · 3 pts · 17h
As I pointed out, and is already actively underway on mobiles with regards to GrapheneOS and LineageOS, apps and services could always start blocking Linux.
eremophila@lemmy.zip · -7 pts · 17h
torvalds is pro ai
debian is ai
ubuntu is ai
linux is conforming/selling out
artyom@piefed.social · 6 pts · 17h
I don't understand what that has to do with this conversation.
eremophila@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 16h
linux no longer looks like it is likely to remain an escape route from all of this bullshit.
artyom@piefed.social · 1 pts · 16h
How do you figure?
eremophila@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 15h
How do you not figure?
artyom@piefed.social · 1 pts · 15h
LOL that's not how this works.
eremophila@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 15h
"LOL" indeed
Sanguine@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 14h
This blanket statement does not capture the reality / nuance. They are pro AI in the sense of using it as a tool for development not to shackle the entire human race into a surveillance state.
corvus@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 15h
If Torvalds and Debian are OK using AI and if I were against it, I would at least consider the possibility that may be I'm wrong about it.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 13h
Self-reflection?
Quick, get out of now while you're still normal.
eremophila@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 13h
Jensen Huang too, so it looks you have to be pro ai now, I mean Ed Sheeran is probably all up in it, so it must be the goat fam lol
distal@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 15h
Into the wilds I retreat.
random_character_a@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10h
Shadow tech anarchist culture, here we go.
lennee@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 18h
snickers in arch linux
ferric_carcinization@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 16h
Giggles in Gentoo.
en1gma@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 8h
Yeah, Twitter did already because I connected with a VPN once. Good, no more Twitter then.
People need to fight back! But I guess it's already too late. They've already succeeded in dividing the young people, so there can be no coordination or solidarity. Brainrot is real!
Allero@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 4h
Too early to admit defeat. Young people have their limits, too, and grow more aware of the shortcomings of modern corporate tech than their parents. They are also the first to embrace new circumvention techniques, along with entire new ways of communication.
The battle's far from over.
badbytes@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 22m
Lol, run a real OS you technotards. I use arch Linux btw.
myyass@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 15h
Well I never intend to upgrade my computer at this point anyway.
4am@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 13h
What makes you think your device has anything to do with it?
It'll be Netflix, your bank, the DMV, email clients, forums, reddit, TikTok, Facebook, Intuit products like TurboTax and Quickbooks, various GIS systems, mobile providers, app stores, games, rideshares, food delivery, amazon, twitch, X, they'll probably make some laws that Lemmy has to be blocked unless they do it, etc.
"We're sorry, your operating system does not support legally-required methods of age verification. Please upgrade to an Amazon Fire Tablet where everything runs from the cloud and its impossible to do anything except what we allow you. Please drink a verification can."
myyass@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 12h
I mean I get what you're saying.
But you estimated my level of spite too low. 🙃 I'm using outdated OS's; sure everyone argues security, but nobody is going to bother with you when you're one out of a million, why not just find an exploit for the million right?
As far as what you mentioned, I pretty much don't use any of that stuff anyway other than lemmy and facebook crap (for international friends). The bank and dmv, lol those idiots just had a major data breach where I live, require an ID already, I go there physically.
A lot of things I do, are done through software and physical proxies.
Whatever requires me to make an account or download a cr'app; I just find something else to do.
I check on whatever info is floating on the web that's easy to access. As far as I'm known, I'm Japanese, Married to an ex, and live in another state.
At the end of the day, if push comes to shove, I have plenty of other things to do and get done that play these age verification games.
treverflume@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 9h
and multiple other internets built on this one, you can use them and slowly move out of these ecosystems. More people that try the easier it'll be.
chunes@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 8h
Kazel@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 36m
mine won't :)
atrielienz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 17h
Doubtful. The only Windows computer I have is the work laptop and they're unlikely to be worried about making corps verify their ages.
eremophila@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 17h
Will someone just hurry up and build a wall around the usa?
4am@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 13h
Claudia Sheinbaum suddenly sits up in bed, in a cold sweat
"¡Mierda! ¡Teníamos con qué pagarlo!"
StellarExtract@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 17h
We're building it as fast as we can!
eremophila@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 16h
It needs a roof too.
StellarExtract@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 15h
Please don't give our government more ideas, they might actually do it
eremophila@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 12h
The wall is for the rest of the world, the usa had its chance to be decent and chose to be the exact opposite for many decades. Now even with something as revolting as trump, the people still show no sign at all of ever waking up and being decent.
moldy_rice@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com · 1 pts · 2h
No, it won't. Or I'd just uninstall that package.