WASHINGTON (AP) — Empathy is usually regarded as a virtue, a key to human decency and kindness. And yet, with increasing momentum, voices on the Christian right are preaching that it has become a vice.
For them, empathy is a cudgel for the left: It can manipulate caring people into accepting all manner of sins according to a conservative Christian perspective, including abortion access, LGBTQ+ rights, illegal immigration and certain views on social and racial justice.
“Empathy becomes toxic when it encourages you to affirm sin, validate lies or support destructive policies,” said Allie Beth Stuckey, author of “Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion.”
Stuckey, host of the popular podcast “Relatable,” is one of two evangelicals who published books within the past year making Christian arguments against some forms of empathy.
The other is Joe Rigney, a professor and pastor who wrote “The Sin of Empathy: Compassion and its Counterfeits.” It was published by Canon Press, an affiliate of Rigney’s conservative denomination, which counts Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth among its members.
These anti-empathy arguments gained traction in the early months of President Donald Trump’s second term, with his flurry of executive orders that critics denounced as lacking empathy.
As foreign aid stopped and more deportations began, Trump’s then-adviser Elon Musk told podcaster Joe Rogan: “The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy.”
Even Vice President JD Vance, a Catholic convert, framed the idea in his own religious terms, invoking the concept of ordo amoris, or order of love. Within concentric circles of importance, he argued the immediate family comes first and the wider world last — an interpretation that then-Pope Francis rejected.
While their anti-empathy arguments have differences, Stuckey and Rigney have audiences that are firmly among Trump’s Christian base.
“Could someone use my arguments to justify callous indifference to human suffering? Of course,” Rigney said, countering that he still supports measured Christ-like compassion. “I think I’ve put enough qualifications.”
Historian Susan Lanzoni traced a century of empathy’s uses and definitions in her 2018 book “Empathy: A History.” Though it’s had its critics, she has never seen the aspirational term so derided as it is now.
It’s been particularly jarring to watch Christians take down empathy, said Lanzoni, a graduate of Harvard Divinity School.
“That’s the whole message of Jesus, right?”
161 Comments
dhork@lemmy.world · 161 pts · 1y
If this lot encountered Jesus here on earth today, they would deport him
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 134 pts · 1y
They're the same people that crucified him in the first place.
wetbeardhairs@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 58 pts · 1y
Nonsense. They would've just sent him to alligator auschwitz and made him eat rotten food from a bowl on the ground with his hands tied behind his back.
Botzo@lemmy.world · 55 pts · 1y
Pam: "it's the same picture."
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 1y
jesus can just tell his daddy and the angels to smite them, send 7 of them.
RagingRobot@lemmy.world · 87 pts · 1y
This is insane
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 60 pts · 1y
They are. Evangelicals are seriously so fucked in the head it’s like dealing with someone out of their mind on crack. And it runs deeeeeep.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 1y
the rapture is also thier creation too.
BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world · 71 pts · 1y
In the Bible they talk about how people will view the antichrist as virtuous. Jesus condemns the pharases who are the religious officials of the day, for hypocrisy. I understand when you regretfully have to disobey God's words and want to call yourself a Christian, dispite your shame. I do not understand gleefully treating the sorjourner as an animal then chanting his name like you mean it. I call them antichrist-ians.
salacious_coaster@infosec.pub · 33 pts · 1y
These jokers had like 2000 years of warning of what the antichrist would be like and still fell for it. Unreal.
I'm not religious, so this is in jest, but it's still eerie.
QuarterSwede@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1y
Trump doesn’t tick all the boxes of the Antichrist (ex. he isn’t universally loved) but the Bible also says there will be many antichrists leading up to the Antichrist and he is certainly one of the them.
masterofn001@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 1y
You sure bout that?
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
Universally loved / followed
The entire world follows his actions and words.
Anyway, there are 666 other reasons in that article that are pulled straight from the holey book.
QuarterSwede@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
I’m aware of his article. Pretty good one but even he concluded it doesn’t all align.
masterofn001@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 1y
Nothing in the bible aligns.
But if there ever were one person who so closely fit, it is him.
QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1y
The Pharisees were a competing group of reformers.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
Jesus was a member of the Pharisaic tradition himself. His problem was that many, if not most, other Pharisees were selfish, self-centered, self-serving hypocrites. Just like the Rightist political and religious leaders of today. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
DomeGuy@lemmy.world · 58 pts · 1y
In order to justify their own bigotry, they seem to be literally abandoning the central teachings of the key teacher in Christianity.
When Jesus was asked "what is the most important part of the law", the two part response was love . To love God wholly, and to love others as we love ourselves.
When later asked how Christians would be judged, Jesus said that we would be judged as if we had done to Jesus whatever we do to the least among us.
I don't see how it is possible to reconcile bigotry with either of these teachings. I guess they can twist themselves into rhetorical knots and try, but it seems way easier to just decide to love everyone and leave it to God to judge us for whatever our sins may be.
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca · 52 pts · 1y
Conservative Christians talking about the "sins" of others.
THEY SUPPORT A CHILD RAPIST WHO IS AN ADULTERER. 🤷♂️
papertowels@mander.xyz · 13 pts · 1y
Something something splinter log in eye something
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 1y
The true Christian response would be that Trump will be judged in the afterlife but that they still support what he's doing in government... which is making things harder for people with darker skin and/or who are LGBTQ+. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and all that.
Ask them if they would allow their preteen daughter to stay the night with Trump and you'll see where their feelings truly lie. Many of them would! Many of them would happily traffick their child to him hoping that she might be his fourth wife and their family would benefit. A few would tell you that the accusations against him are inventions of the liberals, but those people are never mentally sound.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 45 pts · 1y
These dipshits clearly do not understand the parable of the Good Samaritan or anything Jesus did/said.
squaresinger@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 1y
The parable where the good samaritan was deported for being a criminal foreigner? Or the sermon given by a young criminal who got hung at the cross?
That's what they take away from the bible and seriously I can't understand how someone like that can still call themselves christians. Tbh, that's the definition of "taking the lord's name in vain".
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1y
The "Christian" Right: When you only care about Leviticus, and only the parts that let you hate the gays, and you actively ignore EVERYTHING Christ said.
squaresinger@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1y
"How to be worse than the pharisees".
The pharisees at least followed the law themselves and didn't only use it to justify hateing others.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 1y
They remember his famous speech that ends 'do you feel lucky, punk? Well do ya!?' And all the stuff about how 'some percentage of people must necessarily starve so genocide is fine and good actually and its mot like the irish or indians are people anyway'
omgboom@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 45 pts · 1y
1 John 3:17
“If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?”
octopus_ink@slrpnk.net · 32 pts · 1y
Yes but that was pre-Maga.
Stamau123@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 1y
You can't expect them to read so far beyond John 3:16 now can you?
Ghyste@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 1y
I don't expect them to be able to count to 16...
WindyRebel@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1y
They don’t read past Austin 3:16. That’s the only verse they live by I think.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 1y
most of them probably dont read it all, only listens to thier televengist pastor.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1y
Obviously, Jesus was referring to immediate family only. Anyone outside the sacred bloodline should be killed on sight.
CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net · 43 pts · 1y
Matthew 22:37-39 NIV. Jesus replied: “ 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. ' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.
Matthew 25:40-46 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
These aren't even out of context. But I admit these are copied straight from the woke red bits.
But perhaps Kropotkin wrote it better. Mutual Aid,1902: "...in all these scenes of animal life which passed before my eyes, I saw mutual aid and mutual support carried on to an extent which made me suspect in it a feature of the greatest importance for the maintenance of life, the preservation of each species, and its further evolution."
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 1y
Kropotkin is my favorite Santa. One of his most eloquent quotes. Thank you.
abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 40 pts · 1y
Right wing Christians want empathy to be a sin because it goes against their politics.
aceshigh@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1y
Empathy is a sin because it goes against their Christian beliefs. They’re being persecuted.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
11th commandment "Thou shalt not do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
mcv@lemmy.zip · 38 pts · 1y
As a Christian, I'm utterly disgusted by how these people are perverting my religion that's supposed to be all about love for others. For your enemy, even.
Feed the poor, shelter the homeless, heal the sick, visit the imprisoned and welcome the foreigner. That's how we will be judged, according to Matthew 25.
The pervert the words of Jesus. First the Prosperity Gospel, and now this.
Cargon@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 1y
What does your religion say should be done with these usurpers and blasphemers?
mcv@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 1y
Love them? But also counter their false teachings. Loving the people they mislead or hurt, and save them from harm.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 1y
"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is the boilerplate answer, and fundamentally it's correct, but also never forget that Jesus himself kicked over tables and brandished a whip at these people.
Like, you always think of Jesus as this soft-spoken, kind-hearted individual who always tried to help people. But when he came back to the temple and saw people were using it to try to peddle their wares under the guise and protection of religion, he called that out and threatened violence. And he was right to.
mcv@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1y
Oit of control capitalism was the one thing that made him lose his temper.
And yes, "love the sinner, hate the sin", but also protect vulnerable people from harm, and a lot of those conservatives are explicitly looking to hurt people.
Cargon@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 1y
Is there a meaningful number of traditional Christians left? I haven't seen much effort from churches to counter these false teachings.
Tempus_Fugit@midwest.social · 4 pts · 1y
In fact I've seen the opposite. A traveling priest came to my mother's church before the elections cycle last year and was spouting off about how leftism is evil and the cause for all modern societies problems.
mcv@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1y
There are a lot of Christians of many different varieties. None of the Christians I know would agree with conservative Americans.
papertowels@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 1y
It's much more enticing to publish news articles about the asshats.
mcv@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1y
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -2 pts · 1y
The Bible condones slavery.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 1y
That's a problem if you consider the Bible to be univocal. Considering the Bible to be univocal is a bad idea in the first place.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -3 pts · 1y
Whatever you have to come up with to feel ok about condoning slavery.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 1y
I don't, I'm an atheist. I also recognize that if you throw out univocality, then you can happily throw out the slavery bits.
And you should throw out univocality to make any sense of the Bible at all.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1y
The first mistake in that line of reasoning is assuming that the Bible makes sense.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 1y
It makes sense as much as any other text. Of course it has contradictions. The mistake is thinking the fundie approach is the only way to approach it; that's buying into their game. It's not even a singular book, but a collection of writings from across centuries.
mcv@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 1y
I don't, but the various books in the Bible were written in specific times and contexts, often times when slavery was common. The bible puts limits on slavery, says at various places to release slaves after 7 years, to pay them, to treat them well.
One place in the NT that deals with slavery (and is pretty controversial because of that), is when Paul sends an escaped slave back to his master, with a letter to the master telling him to treat the slave as a brother, because they're brothers in Christ, both children of God.
Paul was trying to spread Christianity in Greece, where slavery was very common, and outright condemning it would probably make a lot of Greeks reject it. There are a lot of places where you can see Paul being very pragmatic about stuff as long as it helps spread the Word. So I guess "here's you're slave, but remember he's your brother" is his compromise with slavery.
sean_lemmy@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1y
I'm pretty certain slavery was the most common form of employment during that period. Slave and master could basically translate to worker and boss now
Looking at antiquity via modern morals is easy. Most of us would not have our current morals if we were raised during the same time period
Note: slavery is obviously bad
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 1y
And all your Lord and Savior had to do was say, "hey guys, you shouldn't own other people."
Christianity WAS outright rejected at that time because it was extreme. So that's not really an excuse, is it.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
He did.
— from Mark 12.
— from Matthew 25
As a previous person mentioned, the whole “The Bible is a singular work of God’s literal word” argument is absurdist in the extreme, even if it’s mainstream today. This dogma began in the US in the 1900s with the Fundamentalist movement. Even the word “Bible” itself means “library.”
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 1y
Lol ya'll are the champions at grasping at straws.
Whatever you have to tell yourself.
papertowels@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 1y
good thing all Christians have that as their primary takeaway!
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 1y
It was in the 1800s when it was used as justification for chattel slavery in the US. Including the printing of "slave Bibles" where all references to "freedom" and "liberty" were removed.
And if you pay attention to what Republicans are saying, you'd recognize that this mindset never actually fully went away.
papertowels@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 1y
If you want to try and use that as a cudgel for someone advocating to love thy neighbor, take care of the downtrodden, etc., feel free.
Assholes are going to interpret things how they want. See the main topic of this post for reference.
Doesn't mean you should piss in the cornflakes of folks who are advocating for objectively good things. That makes you look like an asshole.
CitizenKong@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 1y
Fun historical fact: Adolf Hitler was not actually an atheist as is often commonly believed. He was actually opposed to atheism and tried to establish a German "Reich Church" that would teach Christianity aligned with Nazi propaganda. Sound familiar?
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 1y
Hitler was brought up Catholic.
The Church never excommunicated him.
whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 1y
Not surprising considering the commonalities between cult leaders and fascist dictators. "Us" in group vs scapegoat "them" out group degenerates of the week, calling themselves family to distance from biological families and social support, hierarchy with an unquestionable leader on top, love me or suffer my wrath, etc. Even the way they talk from the pulpit or podium, no justification for any claims, just vibes and biases exploiting.
AA5B@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 1y
In other news
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 1y
Matthew 23 is about these kinds of people. Recommended reading, even for fellow atheists. Keep in mind that the scribes and pharisees that Jesus calls out over and over again were the conservative leaders of his time - “pastors and politicians” - behaving just as ours do today.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 1y
He generally referred to them as "liars, Pharisees, hypocrites."
Azal@pawb.social · 34 pts · 1y
I had a really good preacher growing up. Probably a big part of why I don't hate all religion.
He spoke of compassion, of the teachings of the bible as he felt was to be a good person. Viewed being Christian as being like Christ as much as much as one was possible, but people fail to live up to it, that's our failings, but to believe is to still keep striving for that perfection.
2001 happened, and the hatred to Muslims came. Then one day, the preacher is talking about an extremist, one that is hated by the government, outspoken to the government, that people hated and reviled. A man from the middle east. "That is our lord and savior." You could have heard a pin drop in that room when everyone was figuring he was talking about a Muslim radical instead of Jesus. It was a call against the fear mongering, to love our neighbors even if we don't believe the same, to not assume the worst about people. He described how we usually get Jesus wrong in looks, that he'd be one of those we'd be persecuting post 9/11 America because of his looks, showing a magazine cover where a group of anthropologists reconstructed what Jesus likely looked like based on what they knew of the people of that region of that time, had the magazine on display in the hall where people gathered after worship.
It wasn't a year later that he was removed from being the preacher of that church. Probably a big part of why I'm not a believer anymore.
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 1y
I think he won the best preacher's pulpit, one no corrupt church leadership can take away: Your heart. It will beat to his words, for many more decades to come.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 1y
So this is only vaguely related but the look of white Jesus is probably based off of Alexander the great through a somewhat roundabout mess. Basically the Colossus of Rhodes was most likely modelled after Alexander this is based off of some surviving contemporary artifacts of Helios which the Colossus of Rhodes was a statue of, cut forward a couple centuries and due to a weird mess of synchronizing religious imagery and coding you end up with Jesus as being portrayed as Helios or at least based off of the Greek god. This is also where the halo most likely comes from, it's probably derived from the sun beams Helio was portrayed with which sometimes had a halo of light.
Azal@pawb.social · 4 pts · 1y
Okay, that is cool!
I would like to subscribe to more obscure connections of modern iconography to unrelated mythology.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 1y
There's a theory that the whole Christianity thing was just a conspiracy hy the (extremely banned) cult of bacchus that got way out of hand.
Azal@pawb.social · 1 pts · 1y
Oh no, you don't get to drop something like that without further context!
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1y
I absolutely do. I'm not an expert and barely remember the discussion where i heard it.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1y
Father Christmas/Santa Claus/Saint Nicholas in his modern gift giving portrayal is a synchronization of Odin, basically in a lot of Odins portrayals he is shown giving gifts as a reward for virtues namely wisdom and bravery. During christianization of both Germany and Scandinavia this element of the god was held onto and simply attached to the Saint.
Also because it's an absolute mess I'm gonna note that the various cults of the Mother Mary probably have their roots in the cults of Venus/Aphrodite in her motherly aspect, also the Egyptian god Isis is in there somewhere. Frankly speaking early Christianity is a mess of mystery cults and lost context.
Azal@pawb.social · 1 pts · 1y
I've known about Christianity is almost the English of Religions as in it sneaks other religions in the alley, knocks them over the head and riffles through their pockets for traditions, and weirdly knew about the Santa comes from Odin...
I did not know anything about the Mother Mary side though, that is really fantastic to learn.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1y
Yeah it's on the more esoteric side of things that is only kinda understood. As I noted early Christianity was more or less just another mystery cult who's defining feature was that it came out of Hebrew traditions rather than Hellenic. Just to give you an idea of how weird it got there's evidence that early Christianity and the Anubis cults got along weirdly well and may have even merged in some cases, best guess as to why is that they were both cults with close associations with death and thusly were similarly shunned.
NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml · 30 pts · 1y
If people knew S.S. Jesus was healing leppers, then there would be no incentive for people to avoid leprosy.
-Supply-Side Jesus for the uninitiated.
boolean_sledgehammer@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 1y
Conservative christian culture makes people objectively worse.
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org · 25 pts · 1y
“They should have tortured Jesus even harder! I woulda fucked him up!”
-Modern Far-Right Christians
Deathray5@lemmynsfw.com · 23 pts · 1y
And the republican jesus said "hate one another as I hate you". He then dropped kicked a small child for being noisy and asked the disciples why they had let the small child through
AcidiclyBasicGlitch@sh.itjust.works · 22 pts · 1y
Empathy is a sin.
Exposing pedophiles is a sin.
Protecting children is a sin.
Healthcare for Gaza is a sin.
Healthcare for Americans is a sin.
Military force against the American people is God's will.
Not sure what kinda fucked up holy war people still supporting this shit believe they're fighting, but it's definitely not a Christian one and you're commiting blasphemy by claiming it is.
Blaster_M@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 1y
Jesus rather specifically says to take care of the poor and the widowed, etc.
Having no empathy is also one of the things that mark the evils of the end times.
lka1988@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 1y
Churchgoers have long-since taken that to mean "poor and widowed who are members of that church"
faythofdragons@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 1y
Back when I was a kid, my family's church used the 'god cares for the sparrows' verse to push prosperity gospel. They're "taking care" of the poor and widowed by providing them a path to god's grace, which is inseparably coupled with financial security. If you're going to church and not rich, they say you're still too sinful.
Blaster_M@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
The irony is Jesus specifically calls out materialistic people lile this many times. "Stop storing up for yourselves treasures on Earth, where moth and rust consume, and thieves break in and steal..."
QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 1y
NPD is literally the lack of empathy and compassion. Why would we encourage people to be objectively worse people by discouraging compassion?
Reyali@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1y
Well it’s fine to have compassion… for the right people!
The whole thing is framed to make it out that these people are empathetic and caring, and that trait they have is being abused by the wrong people. Refusing to empathize with those people doesn’t mean they are no longer empathetic!!
(Total BS, obviously. But that’s the loophole that they use to make this argument.)
EmptySlime@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 1y
Something that really pisses me off about this is that empathy can absolutely be exploited by bad actors. Empathizing with the wrong people can be harmful. But they've defined "wrong people" as "minorities" and that's the fucked up part.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 1y
its call being naive, or being a pushover. there are definitely people that are "nice" but fall for things that people shouldnt.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 17 pts · 1y
Is empathy a sin? Some
conservative Christiansnarssists argue it can beMostly a venn diagram containing only one circle.
MehBlah@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1y
This is at the heart of it. They are mostly narcissist.
VerilyFemme@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 17 pts · 1y
“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
“Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
moseschrute@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 1y
Shhhhh we don’t talk about that part of the bible
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1y
"Blessed are those who praise peace, for they shall bury the peacemakers."
heyWhatsay@slrpnk.net · 15 pts · 1y
Key ingredient if you want fascism via christian nationalism. Oh, those gas chambers? Jesus blessed them!
nectar45@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 1y
"Empathy is a sin" mfs when I kill them
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 14 pts · 1y
now this is actual heresy
TheHotze@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 1y
Its the opposite of a sin. When Jesus sumed up the law and the prophets into two commandments, the one dealing with other people was basically be empathetic.
" So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 7:12 NIV.
MyOpinion@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 1y
Being hateful bigots is also a sin.
elbiter@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1y
They're not actual Christians.
Darleys_Brew@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1y
They call themselves that though.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 1y
I call myself rich, but if I don't go to work I don't get paid, and if I don't get paid I can't pay the rent... and out the door I
wentgo.People can call themselves Christians, but unless they actually follow the teachings of Christ, it doesn't mean anything.
Darleys_Brew@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1y
Yeah. It’s moronic.
Newsteinleo@midwest.social · 12 pts · 1y
My theory is that this is a play by the right to try an undermine anecdotal evidence and accounts used to persuade people. About a decade ago, the left tried to use data driven arguments while the right use anecdotal evidence, and studies have shown anecdotal evidence to be more persuasive. Now, the left has learned from its mistakes and is using anecdotal evidence and accounts, and it is proving to be effective in undermining the right.
Instead of pointing out the hypocrisy of Christians saying empathy is bad, because it doesn’t work, the left should lean into this narrative. Empathy is a way people will exploit you, data driven studies are the only thing you can rely on. Then fallow that up with explaining how to know if you can trust a data source.
If the left and use the rights own strategy against them instead of trying to fight against the strategy, it will be much more effective. They may be able to start realizing that global warming is real, and racism still exist in this country.
QuantumTickle@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 1y
Empathy was dead in the church when they didn't back BLM. That's when I lost my religion.
pwnicholson@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1y
Many churches did back BLM and still do. There are actually many who actually read the Bible and don't just listen to MAGA nutjobs and cultish leaders. They're just not as loud (that's kinda the point... The Bible talks about that, too)
HubertManne@piefed.social · 5 pts · 1y
Ima atheist but I recognize many churches did and many did not and many were indifferent.
halfsalesman@piefed.social · 11 pts · 1y
I might be an atheist's atheist, but if you are anti-empathy you aren't christian, you just like old testament for it's prejudice and horror.
SethTaylor@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1y
There's no hate like Christian... hate?
Tedesche@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1y
It’s worth pointing out that empathy is different from sympathy and compassion.
Empathy is basically just understanding someone else. It doesn’t mean agreement or acceptance. Empathy is usually necessary in order to manipulate someone effectively.
That being said there is a component to empathy—sometimes called affective or emotional empathy—that reflects the phenomenon of emotional contagion, or how empathizing with someone else’s feelings can sometimes cause you to feel the same emotion on a lesser level.
Sympathy is understanding another person through shared or similar experiences.
Compassion is caring about someone.
What these Christians are talking about is the way there’s a trail from simple empathy to compassion that can cause some people to get over the bigotry and intolerance they have worked so hard to instill in them.
I have some of these Christians in my family. They are good people who have been taught rotten beliefs, and to avoid any critical thinking about said beliefs. I avoid associating with them as much as possible. Religion is a mind virus and these folks have one of the worst strains.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
This is the antithesis of “good people.”
Good people see what is right, know what is right, and do what is right regardless of what others try to instill or coerce into them. That you avoid associating with them tells me that you know this, too.
Tedesche@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
No, I would argue you’re describing intelligent people. Good people are defined by their intentions. My relatives are good people because they want what they believe is best for others. The fact that their beliefs are wrong is a testament to their stupidity. Plenty of harmful things have been done by good people.
Edit: Take their votes for Trump. They voted for him because they genuinely believe he has their welfare at heart. They’re wrong, because they’re stupid, but that’s not the same as the KKK Trump voters who voted for him because they’re evil.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
I think where we differ is that I grant no absolution for excuses. Repeatedly causing harm makes one a bad person. It does not matter if that harm is driven by stupidity, “good intentions”, or any other “noble cause.” To make an occasional mistake is human, but to consistently repeat mistakes without learning, to continue to cause harm, makes one evil.
Let me phrase this in a historical context, if I believed that burning your relatives at the stake was for the good of others, would that make me a good person? It does not matter that the belief is stupid, the outcome is harm. Every person has the capacity to justify their actions. That capacity does not mean that all people are “good people.”
Tedesche@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
We do differ then. I don’t throw the term “evil” around that loosely. Most of the suffering in the world is caused by well-intentioned people or people who feel justified in causing the harm they do. The very reason people try to justify the harm they cause is because they see themselves as a good person. True evil is thankfully hard to come by, and is typically the stuff of psychopaths and malignant narcissists. You do encounter it outside of that, like in extreme racists, but that’s also thankfully fairly rare.
But I’ll give you an example: I work in a community mental health clinic, and some of my patients have some pretty hardcore criminal histories. Just about all of them also have some pretty hardcore trauma and abuse histories. They’re, at least in some senses, “the product of their environment.” This is such a truism that there’s even a saying in social work: hurt people hurt people. Are they evil?
Maiq@lemy.lol · 10 pts · 1y
What we don’t understand, we fear. What we fear, we judge as evil. What we judge as evil, we attempt to control. And what we cannot control…we attack.
Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1y
Anyone who thinks empathy is in any way a bad thing is person who cannot be trusted in any way.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1y
"Conservative christian" is an oxymoron
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 1y
If Christ lived today, these people would be in line, with hammers in their hands, to nail him to a cross.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 1y
Leave it up to Christians to argue that empathy can ve a bad thing
Natanael@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 1y
Somebody ask them what Jesus said about the Pharisees
iThinkDifferentThanU@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1y
18107@aussie.zone · 9 pts · 1y
The common factor found in all Nazis was a lack of empathy. Without empathy, we are capable of unimaginable cruelty.
spaghettiwestern@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1y
"Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines
altphoto@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 1y
JustARaccoon@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1y
That I feel is the biggest issue with religion, sure it makes one feel more comfortable about their own eventual demise, but it also means they can point to someone else when otherwise they would show empathy, to the point it gets to victim blaming. "They should've repented", "they must've done something to draw such ire, and this is punishment", it makes it easy to push agency on helping others onto them for not praying hard enough to the right god, instead of understanding the circumstances this stuff are more than "good person gets good results, bad person gets punishments". I think it's the perfect device for rich people too to co opt, with success being seen as something they earned through skill, that makes them superior to regular people, so there's a reason there's a big overlap between rich and powerful people and religious groups.
skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de · 7 pts · 1y
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1y
Propoganda as a tool is designed to target humans specifically and it is horrifying.
Middle east still focused on education to this day. There are actual secret organizations dedicated to schools over there. It's insane people imagine average middle-eastern as an anti-intellectual.
NeilBru@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1y
Demdaru@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1y
For fucks sake, can ya all stop calling these heathens Christians? Sorry but to be called a Christian you need to follow teacheings of Christ, I know, not obvious at all! -.-'
And no, no jew-like bending rules around till they fit what you want either (wierd line hanged around...NYC IIRC...to allow them to "work" when their religion forbids?). You have the ten tenets, follow them dammit. These dumb fucks break them DAILY.
And that's before we even go into teachings of, you know, being empathetic towards your brethern. You can even replace Jesus with Superman and...ah, sorry, forgot USA conservatists hate him too.
FFS USA.
Red_October@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1y
You can "No True Scotsman" as hard as you want but they're nailing this shit to your church door like that was the only part they learned.
Demdaru@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1y
Don't give a flying fuck my friend - I will continue to call bullshit. Stop calling them christians - they're heretics by definition, openly defying the teachings. Also, fallacy fallacy my friend, even if I used "No True Scotsman" - which doesn't even apply here because being a Christian does have requirements they don't follow so there's no redefining here - that doesn't mean I am wrong.
Call them heretics/heathens openly. I can bet my ass that would hurt ^^
Tempus_Fugit@midwest.social · 2 pts · 1y
IDK they seem just like million of other Christians to me. Christians are as evil and violent as they've ever been, probably even softer now vs back in the day. The Crusades, St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, The Thirty Years' War, The English Civil War, and The Troubles all come to mind.
Demdaru@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
Red Cross, constant help for struggling people, giving an alternative to raising a child (where I live it's called Window of Life, and is basically actual window where you can leave your baby. Church will then take care of giving it a chance in life.) etc. etc.
It's like there always is some asshole at the helm when shit happens. Sounds similiar, America?
Tempus_Fugit@midwest.social · 2 pts · 1y
Red Cross is not a religious organization.
Sure, people are people and you'll find good ones being useful idiots for those in power, but I question the motive of any religious "humanitarian" org. Sure people are being clothed, fed, and housed and that is commendable. They're also being groomed and brainwashed into that religion. What I mean is there are always ulterior motives with religious orgs.
Take Mother Teresa for example. Sure she housed and fed those on the brink of death, but she also perpetuated the suffering of some of the most vulnerable people in the world. She believed suffering brought you closer to God and that was evident in her clinics and how she ran them. Not exactly caring for those in need altruistically.
And then there's the gays and abortions to bring up. Vile responses from Christians especially.
Good people are good regardless of if they are religious or not, but I don't believe people are as good as they say they are. And they're certainly not being good people because of their religion.
Demdaru@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
Mistaken Red Cross and Caritas, that's on me.
Groomed and brainwashed...ehhhh. I would like to say this doesn't happen, but nah, I've seen few rotten apples trying to scare people via God's ire or try to manipulate them to believe only Christians can do good. Yet again, that's a small part of the whole. Sadly, this part isn't discouraged by the whole...
First of all, thanks for pointing this out. Didn't know it, got only the sanctified info about the topic...there seems to be more info digging before me now, but even after just wikipedia, opinions seem to be divided. Nevertheless, quotations from her make it seems rather like operation for allowing people thrown out of the system to die in peace rather than helping them...dammit.
Cannot add here anything, last pope started wrangling it in the right direction just for the current guy to halt it again.
If someone says they're good, in my opinion they're not. Good people don't say they're good - it either comes from vanity or guilt. But sure as hell Christianity creates frameworks for good people that boost their work and allow them to do more...which sadly seems to be often abused by people who shouldn't touch them.
Overall thanks for the discussion, and especially for bringing Mother Teresa up. I'd still argue that Christianity does more good than bad, which is also why when it does bad it's so controversial, but I am also gonna admit that it's...outdated. Hell, making a space for people to die with dignity may have been okay in opium days, but today, with commonplace medicine access? Fuck...
And about original topic - all above doesn't change the fact that what happens now in USA is actually opposed fully to teachings of Christianity. Even with Mother Teresa the situation is more gray than black/white, but here it's straight up heresy.
DandomRude@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1y
I can't understand how these people can still look at themselves in the mirror. I guess I'm not very empathetic.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 1y
most of them are probably attending televengical churches, and only hearing a curated version of a bible verse.
Reyali@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
I see the joke you’re making but also if you genuinely want to understand and possibly gain some empathy for these people, I’d suggest reading The Cult of Trump. It’s from 2019 so it doesn’t include a ton of awful stuff that’s happened since then, but it does a great job of contextualizing how people can fall into these belief patterns.
It was written by a man who fell into a cult in his early 20s, found his way out, and has built his career around helping others out of cults and cult-like mindsets.
omgboom@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 1y
Disgusting
manxu@piefed.social · 6 pts · 1y
It is plain and simple in the Bible: empathy is a function of skin color. The whiter the skin, the more empathy is a virtue; the darker, the more it is a sin. I don't understand what's so difficult about it.
Stamau123@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1y
🎵 "I believe that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people!" 🎵
manxu@piefed.social · 2 pts · 1y
[Sound of ominous horror film music]
Stamau123@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
it's actually https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8yb2LQNXKY
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 1y
Jesus wept!
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 1y
Naming podcasts sarcastically has officially gone too far.
the_q@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 1y
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 1y
No. (Organized) Religion is just a symptom of it.
The issue is fascism and totalitarianism. Religion is just one of the many methods that The State has historically used to control people and enrich itself. Most people are aware of the idea that "don't eat meat on Fridays but DO eat fish that we have monetary investment in" was a thing. But lent itself did a LOT to sell olive oil (because it wasn't animal based) which... let's just say that there is a reason that olive trees are so intrinsically tied to "the holy land".
And same here. Empathy is a great thing to preach when you are building a community. But "empathy for the wrong people is a sin" is a great way to mobilize against said "wrong people".
But if it wasn't religion it would be something else. All the people across the river are redheads so redheadedness is an indication they are unclean and diseased but also their wives and daughters are hot so... Shit like phrenology was used to mobilize "science" against The Other. And so forth.
A7thStone@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1y
Of course they prefer the term sympathy. That let's them feel like they are looking down in pity at a lesser.
Goretantath@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1y
RotatingParts@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1y
Religions have all way overstayed their welcome. Time to go.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 1y
That’s kind of what this all is. There’s less interest in religion so when a political party hijacks it and calls their bullshit a religion, it goes unchallenged. There’s only people who still care about religion are the control freaks who want to weaponize it.
RotatingParts@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1y
The problem is that there are still too many people that believe in religion. I'd love to see the day when someone mentions religion as a way to justify what they are saying and everyone just laughs at them.
52fighters@lemmy.sdf.org · 5 pts · 1y
I think the root of this is a misunderstanding of Subsidiarity. Problems should be solved by the nearest, most local competent party available. That means I don't barge in and try to solve another family's problems when they are capable of solving them theirselves. The federal government shouldn't regulate signs in my residential neighborhood. Neither should the state. It should be the local government, my neighborhood association, of me making a decision for myself.
Nowhere in subsidiarity are we understood to be relieved from the moral obligation to be charitable. Yes, if your funds are limited, you direct them to the area of your greatest competence & the greatest need. Give a coat to your neighbor next door before you give a coat to someone across town ... but if you have the funds for two coats, give them both.
I think the bottom line is if your heart is in loving your neighbor, you are going to get it right. If it isn't, you'll find something in the above as an excuse to not give a care about someone else.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 1y
These levels are not so clear cut. If a neighbor is treating their property as a dump they can't be left to fix it themselves. If a town allows massive buildings and signs that clashes with all the ones around it the county or state has to step in.
52fighters@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 1y
These are examples of the "nearest, most local competent party available." Part of that metric seems to be political will, which is a subset of competence.
DancingBear@midwest.social · 5 pts · 1y
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 1y
I was gonna try putting myself in their shoes but that's a problem because I refuse to goose-step.
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
Maybe that's the real punk rock.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1y
Psychopaths
DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
Why are we arguing with religious nutcases over something trivial?
jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
It's dumb to use that word anyway.
Describe the process of doing it and you force the listener to do empathy once just to understand you, which reinforces that brain pathway. This whole conversation is an easy, massive win in the hands of any even slightly competent communicator.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
It’s a sin if it costs them anything at all. But if it’s their house swept up by a tornado, look who starts praying and asking for everything.
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1y
Sympathy is the virtue. Empathy is just the ability to take the perspective of others and interpret their emotional states. Whether or not that’s good or bad depends entirely on how you respond; how you act.
Someone with a lot of empathy can use their ability to lie, cheat, and manipulate other people. They take advantage of their understanding of others’ situations and emotional states in order to maximize the effectiveness of their manipulations. There’s nothing virtuous about that!
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · -4 pts · 1y
While the religious right are hypocrites full of shit & miss the teaching of compassion & benevolence to strive for a better humanity, some people get sanctimonious & invoke "empathy" to browbeat others & police opinions rather than to uplift & realize the aims of empathy.
It's a common, selectively applied phenomenon around here. Someone bashes a deluded redditor moaning the "loss" of their "AI friend" to a ChatGPT upgrade, and an outraged commenter snaps back "your takeaway is they deserve to be alone? have some fucking empathy". In contrast, a deluded, conservative mother moans the loss of her disabled son's medicaid, and we rightly bash & criticize that idiot getting just desserts at leopards eating faces instead of demand "fucking empathy".
When invoking "empathy" suits them, they act like displays of "empathy" settle everything when they don't. Not everything is about empathy, and some things need to be criticized. Even real (rather than performative) empathy is only a start.
To do good, we also need reason to inform us how & we need the truth to support us. We need to moderate feelings with reason & let logic guide us to the best answers. Otherwise, we're indulging in appeals to emotion, and we risk succumbing to feel-good zeal & irrationality liable to do less good than harm.
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
Give legitimate examples and I will retract my downvote
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · -1 pts · 1y
As if I care: how about no & downvote your uninformed way?