Education is the best way to fight ignorance. Yes, there wasn't much education more than a hundred or two years ago.
There are plenty of places on Earth right now that are functioning societies with mostly happy people. So stop being a defeatist pig headed asshole, please.
Get some education. Get others education. Keep educating if you want the world to act educated, and not barbaric. It's really that simple, and it's why the barbarians always gut all education first.
I think you 2 might be 2 sides of the same coin. You started with "Sadly" which would infer you don't think it's ideal but simply the reality. You've probably been called a pessimist more than once for expressing your realistic opinions.
On one side we want progress and equality, on the other, we recognize that tribes, cities, and nations, were built on conquering others. That mindset idealistically should be in the past but we of course still see too many examples of how relevant those issues are.
plenty of education is about instilling ignorance and hate in people. plenty of 'educated' people are the ones creating the vitriol because it's financailly beneficial for them. Most of the right wing nutjobs are just doing it for money.
Yeah. Now stop being afraid and stand up to the fucking bullies. Now watch as they change the definition of "intolerant".
"Standing up to a bully that wants to kill you? That's Intolerant!".
Sound familiar? The nazi with the giant hole in his neck? Oh no, I'm being intolerant. The christian terrorist nazi psychopath with the giant hole in his neck.
You won't have a chance to be intolerant of the nazis very soon, if you don't start fighting against the nazis in effective ways.
Ok but how do we deal with.... you know.. those people who destroy community for profits, who undermine us by exposing us with global competition, the people who promote laws like "right to work" and "no child left behind" to break our organizations against their power asymmetry while making us dumber and weaker, the people who rig the system with a smile without saying even one slur ?
Do we have to tolerate them if they duck us by the rules ?
That makes sense actually
WTF didn't Popper include that obvious fact ?
Was it just taken for granted in the post world wars that assholes catch bullets ?
I do wish we could stop confusing tolerance with active support though. I don't need to be on your team to tolerate you or your lifestyle. In fact, we don't even need to acknowledge each other's existence to be tolerant of one another. We just need to let each other exist unimpeded.
You need to be a bit of an asshole to stand up against assholes. Nice people dont want to be assholes and bend over backwards to make concessions and accommodations.
There is a difference (to me) of what constitutes an asshole. They are hateful pricks with no concern for others.
You dont need to be an asshole to fight one, you just need to be brave enough to fight one. Of course, they are assholes and they fight dirty, you will get dirty in the process.
First step, dont be a Asshole. After that dont support one. Then, dont raise any. Finally stand up to them.
See, there are three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes. And all the assholes want is to shit all over everything. So pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes! And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
The assholes generally take charge because they are self-aggrandizing assholes. I genuinely believe most people are good and trying to just get by. It is very hard to not be distracted by the mountains of daily life struggles one has to wade through because of the power hungry assholes.
As folks have said. An individual asshole has advantage over an individual non asshole. Thing is our society can only funtion with a certain amount of assholes before collapsing and it does not take a surprisingly large amount. Which is why we are collapsing.
I mean, I really think the biggest thing is that so many people are fully bought into the idea that any alternative system would be just disastrous and lead to mass starvation thanks to propaganda.
The worst is when they erase the immense famines in Tsarist Russia, China under the Kuomintang, etc, pretending that socialism caused the famines they experienced, when socialism gradually erased famine and hunger in both Russia and China.
Socialism doesn't "come with the same assholes," socialist states have made dramatic and comprehensive strides for the working class while oppressing the capitalists.
It's obvious from the fact that you think you can presume that you know just from what I said which of the vast diversity of socioeconomic systems I could be referring to tells me that you're one of the people I was talking about.
The system isn't formed based on the wills of individuals, nor is there an inherent "nice" or "mean" quality to people. If we all decide we want to live in a perfect utopia, that still won't take form, because that's not how societal progression works. We live in capitalism, because capitalism emerged from preceding modes of production like feudalism. It wasn't a choice people made, but an economic progression on the basis of private property and free-moving capital, which leads us to today where a tiny handful own the lion's share of production.
Capitalism is riddled with contradictions, however, and these contradictions sharpen over time. We move onto socialism by organizing, where we can actually take control of production and run it along a common plan to suit the needs of the people.
Socialism only works in small coherent groups. It doesn't scale. You can run a socialist business, or group, or town. Sure. People are generally pro socialism when it's amongst their own tribe.
You can't run a socialist multi-ethnic society for millions of people. Human tribalism.
All the socialists I know seem to have a hate hard on for working class people. At least where I live.
To the contrary, socialism can only work at scale. Small-scale cooperation exists, yes, but isn't really "socialism" as we understand it. A business cannot be "socialist," socialism is a descriptor for an entire mode of production, not a quantum unit of an economy. Socialism is a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect, and regularly is proven to be superior to capitalism. The largest economy in the world by PPP is socialist, the PRC, and it's a broad, diverse, multi-ethnic society of billions.
I think you'd do well to research more on socialism. "Human tribalism" is more of a response to immediate conditions within capitalism, a system dominated by private property. It isn't some eternal genetic fault in humans, over time we have become increasingly interconnected and interdependent. Socialism is the natural evolution from that point now that capitalism has already centralized the broad majority of production, meaning coherent and deliberate planning of the economy is more feasible.
You can't research socialism on a large scale because it has never existed.
You're arguing from an ideal. I'm arguing from reality. I look at evidence, not theoretical constructs of how the world 'should' be. '
PRC is not socialist dude. You are straight up delusional. It's autocratic capitalism. They pivoted to that after Maoism was a titanic failure. But hey, don't like history or facts get in the way of the fantasy in your head that you got from reading a few books?
Socialism has existed on a large scale for over a century. The USSR was the first, and now we have countries like Cuba, Vietnam, the PRC, etc, all economies where public ownership is the principle aspect of society. I'm not arguing from an "ideal," I'm speaking purely about existing material reality. Using the PRC as an example, the large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly owned:
The PRC did introduce Reform and Opening Up after struggles within the Cultural Revolution and the Gang of Four. These reforms didn't change that public ownership is still the principle aspect of the economy, though. Private and cooperative ownership existed even under Mao, and economic growth was positive under Mao, just unstable, which the market reforms and introduction of special economic zones helped make stable and regular:
Pre-Reform and Opening Up
Post-Reform and Opening Up
You didn't bring any facts to the table or any analysis, you just said "no" then insulted me. It"s insulting and utterly insufficient for proving your claims.
Unfortunately society encourages and glorifies shitty behaviour. So this behaviour is completely normalised for the majority of people who see it as a thing to be desired, rather than something thats shitty.
I've noticed this. Even in small groups of 'community' minded people. The sociopaths always rise to the top and the good honest people get pushed aside. And people LOVE it. Because the sociopaths tell people what they want to hear and people love being lied to.
And nothing pisses off a sociopath more when you aren't swayed by their bullshit or offer deference to their status. They get so angry with you and they will then character assassinate you, usually by spreading lies and rumors. And people eat it up because they'd rather believe in dramatic bullshit lies than the truth in front of their faces.
In my own circles, I tend to counter this by employing radical honesty, being extremely data driven, and calling out bullshit extremely aggressively whenever I possibly can. It for sure alienates people sometimes, but the people who are alienated tend to be the people who are also psychopaths, so I genuinely do not care about that “drawback”.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that people don't care. People do care, a lot of people care a lot. Part of the problem is that people who want to act ethically and politely, people who want to minimize harm, are going to be at a distinct disadvantage when opposing people for whom the ends always justify the means, and the ends they seek are their own betterment above all else.
If your idea of action is sternly worded letters and peaceful protest, and my idea of action is violence and unabashed corruption of authority, you're going to have a real uphill battle to dislodge me from any power I manage to gain. It doesn't mean the corrupt assholes are unstoppable, only that their methods are more aligned with the acquisition and retention of power.
A bummer because im naturally nice and i get upset at people who aren't. I just dont get it. I feel awful if I'm mean or something by accident or get misinterpreted. I wonder what it is, because my parents are not very nice people.
I grew up in a household full of hateful bigoted ignorant people. I'm aware of the consequences of that.
People who didn't grow up with that experience aren't. I noticed most of the hateful ignorant people I meet grew up with 'supportive' parents... and basically were isolated form the consequences of their actions. They don't have ot be nice or kind... because they will get what they want regardless of how they behave because money and power and privileged.
These are also the same people who think anyone who doesn't have a elite degree or wear designer clothing is subhuman. They think they are inherently superior to other human beings because they possess these things... which were given to them by their wealthy families and they operated under the delusion that anyone who doesn't have those things just didn't work hard as they did. And anyone who doesn't want them... is mentally ill.
More and more I see that a lot of people who think they’re “nice” are just lazy and largely uprincipled people who assume that they’re doing good simply because they have good intentions and they’re not actively creating problems.
Don't forget, supporting the status quo and doing the popular thing, regardless of how hypocritical it is.
What gets me is how openly hypocritical people are becoming. There is no more shame. I notice that many of the 'principled' people think their principles do not apply to them. Only other people that they don't like.
I'm not even talking politics. Often in personal relationships people will tell you how lying is awful, but then lie themselves and justify it by claiming that everyone else is doing it or that they had to do it because they are 'disadvantaged'.
I know it may seem that way if you're constantly online these days, but in general most people are just people. Like 80% are mostly good, but human, and may have some minor issues. Probably 10% are Jesus-level good, then 10% are sociopathically evil.
Now, if by society you mean "American capitalism", then yes that favors assholes who care less about their fellow humans. This flavor of capitalism is inherently selfish and greedy, so those who succeed in it are the most greedy and bad people. Yes people care, but the forces preventing anyone from changing it are the strongest in the history of human civilization with technology too now, that makes it borderline impossible to change the underlying system. Only a major catastrophe caused by capitalism where millions of Americans died would cause the general populace to question the system, but honestly even then who fucking knows.
There are more assholes than good people because assholery typically delivers better results in terms of wealth, power, and status, and good people have to accept a lower social status in order to maintain their goodness, but most people don't fall into either category.
But the vast majority of people fall into an apathetic middle ground where they don't really think too much about any kind of moral consistency and act according to paths they're already on and the rules those paths require.
Yeah that's accurate. I accept lower social status for my goodness.
Turns out other people don't admire that. They admire assholes and they tend to think anyone who isn't seeking wealth, power, and status is mentally deficient. At least in USA. I have been told many times that me not rent-seeking and exploiting others is 'being lazy'.
You need to educate and agitate and organize. It isn't an either/or situation, you need both so that theory and practice sharpen and reinforce each other. Ignoring one weakens the other.
This is going to be an unpopular opinion because most people like to think of themselves as nice. I think it's not so much that there are nice people and assholes, but rather that almost everyone is an asshole some of the time.
pretty much. and most people think you're an asshole if you disagree with them.
can't tell you how many times I get told I am an asshole for not being into professional sports. for example. i think it's pretty harmless, but for pro-sports fanatics I'm a heathen to their religion.
It can certainly feel that way. And I do think there is no such thing as an ethical billionaire, if by favouring assholes you mean rewarding monetarily.
I argue though, that without kindness there would be no societies. Even if the parable of the Margaret Mead's healed femur isn't true, the fact remains that there are in fact those who help, and they are probably more plentiful than those who hurt. They're just harder to spot, because media makes money off emotions and fear and anger are stronger than hope.
To quote Mr Rogers "look for the helpers", because they are there. And if you're not seeing them, maybe it's time for a news break. Including social media, just for a week. And then see how you are feeling. I have to take breaks now and then, and I promise it helps.
Darwin talked about societies and advancement in species around communication. It is important for us to be able to communicate threats in order to build community. Assholes don't build lasting societies.
Selfish, childish, propagandized and mostly unthinking and amoral people are big enough pluralities in certain societies and only an ideological awakening post societal collapse could help it, yes. I mean, if you live in the West for instance, what exactly is stopping you from just "focusing on yourself", or pushing you to be prosocial and wise? 🤷
Why tf are so many people looking forward to societal collapse?
Talk - and listen to your neighbor, join a club, get outside or something. People are naturally social animals (this is what asshole rely on).
Can't we all just get along?
Want? Some societies are unviable and actively create discord, death and misery in others who could be. It's necessary for the world and the survival of the human race for some societies to rethink their entire "ideology" and attitudes.
That's why most cults have an element of apocalyptic baked in. Fear of the 'end' keeps people in line, and it also makes them feel like they are superior to those who are 'ignorant' of 'the end'.
The proto-revolutionaries in the comments here are of the same mindset. They are 'aware' want to collapse to come so they can demonstrate how right they were.
Not too different from horror/apocalypse movies too. The fun of those movies is the projection the viewer has about how they would not be as 'stupid' as the characters.
The assholes bought everything up, including the law and politicians. They rigged the game so no one else can climb the same ladder they did. But, also, death throes look like this. They positioned themselves so that the entire populous of the earth can't sustain life, unless they don't. That imbalance is about to be corrected. It's gunna get a little bit worse before it gets better though, hang on.
I believe some amount of people support the assholes because some how they think (or hope) they will benefit by giving that support (especially so many of the assholes have so much power and money.) The "trickle down" effect from the assholes. Oops, might not have been the best phrase ... on second thought ...
It's the fear or apathy of the asshole to retaliate. I could be on a bus, and there could be an asshole playing music without headphones. Saying something could come with verbal abuse at the least and could end in a physical altercation with or without weapons at worst. As the annoyed passerby, is confronting the asshole worth the effort and risk for quiet?
I love calling people out when I can, but you gotta pick your battles.
No. We live in a society that favors good people for the most part and it's getting better, just not for the US and it's toadies.
And all the bad people from the good countries move to the US so that they can beg the US to invade their own nation in order to become toadie leader #53.
What's happening right now is that this US hegemonic system is falling apart.
73 Comments
andrewta@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 359d
Sadly, I think that’s the way it’s been since the beginning of humanity and I don’t see it ever changing.
Xanthobilly@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 359d
Richard Dawkins lays this out nicely in The Selfish Gene.
DreamAccountant@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 359d
Education is the best way to fight ignorance. Yes, there wasn't much education more than a hundred or two years ago.
There are plenty of places on Earth right now that are functioning societies with mostly happy people. So stop being a defeatist pig headed asshole, please.
Get some education. Get others education. Keep educating if you want the world to act educated, and not barbaric. It's really that simple, and it's why the barbarians always gut all education first.
andrewta@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 359d
Seems like I struck a nerve.
Considering you know nothing about me , it’s interesting that you call me uneducated. Yet haven’t bothered to educate yourself about me.
TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 359d
I think you 2 might be 2 sides of the same coin. You started with "Sadly" which would infer you don't think it's ideal but simply the reality. You've probably been called a pessimist more than once for expressing your realistic opinions.
On one side we want progress and equality, on the other, we recognize that tribes, cities, and nations, were built on conquering others. That mindset idealistically should be in the past but we of course still see too many examples of how relevant those issues are.
andrewta@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 358d
Thank you for a solid response. You understood my comment perfectly
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 358d
what kind of education?
plenty of education is about instilling ignorance and hate in people. plenty of 'educated' people are the ones creating the vitriol because it's financailly beneficial for them. Most of the right wing nutjobs are just doing it for money.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 38 pts · 359d
People who don't realize that tolerance is a social contract will tolerate assholism, which abets the assholing.
That's got to stop.
DreamAccountant@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 359d
Yeah. Now stop being afraid and stand up to the fucking bullies. Now watch as they change the definition of "intolerant".
"Standing up to a bully that wants to kill you? That's Intolerant!".
Sound familiar? The nazi with the giant hole in his neck? Oh no, I'm being intolerant. The christian terrorist nazi psychopath with the giant hole in his neck.
You won't have a chance to be intolerant of the nazis very soon, if you don't start fighting against the nazis in effective ways.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 359d
Ok but how do we deal with.... you know.. those people who destroy community for profits, who undermine us by exposing us with global competition, the people who promote laws like "right to work" and "no child left behind" to break our organizations against their power asymmetry while making us dumber and weaker, the people who rig the system with a smile without saying even one slur ?
Do we have to tolerate them if they duck us by the rules ?
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 359d
That makes sense actually
WTF didn't Popper include that obvious fact ?
Was it just taken for granted in the post world wars that assholes catch bullets ?
krashmo@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 359d
I do wish we could stop confusing tolerance with active support though. I don't need to be on your team to tolerate you or your lifestyle. In fact, we don't even need to acknowledge each other's existence to be tolerant of one another. We just need to let each other exist unimpeded.
missfrizzle@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 359d
whoa, I just realized this is basically the left-lib equivalent of the NAP.
dom@lemmy.ca · 29 pts · 359d
You need to be a bit of an asshole to stand up against assholes. Nice people dont want to be assholes and bend over backwards to make concessions and accommodations.
blargh513@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 359d
There is a difference (to me) of what constitutes an asshole. They are hateful pricks with no concern for others.
You dont need to be an asshole to fight one, you just need to be brave enough to fight one. Of course, they are assholes and they fight dirty, you will get dirty in the process.
First step, dont be a Asshole. After that dont support one. Then, dont raise any. Finally stand up to them.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 359d
dom@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 359d
True wisdom in them there words
apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 359d
The assholes generally take charge because they are self-aggrandizing assholes. I genuinely believe most people are good and trying to just get by. It is very hard to not be distracted by the mountains of daily life struggles one has to wade through because of the power hungry assholes.
DreamAccountant@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 359d
They make daily struggles to distract you from them. Really.
If you can't afford to eat, you can't organize protests.
If you can't afford a phone, you can't organize protests.
If you can't afford electricity, you can't organize protests.
If you have to deal with christian extremist brainwashed children from religious schools, you can't organize protests.
ETfuckingC...
If you don't do it soon, you won't be healthy enough to do it in the future as your healthcare is being taken away.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 18 pts · 358d
As folks have said. An individual asshole has advantage over an individual non asshole. Thing is our society can only funtion with a certain amount of assholes before collapsing and it does not take a surprisingly large amount. Which is why we are collapsing.
black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 359d
I mean, I really think the biggest thing is that so many people are fully bought into the idea that any alternative system would be just disastrous and lead to mass starvation thanks to propaganda.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 358d
The worst is when they erase the immense famines in Tsarist Russia, China under the Kuomintang, etc, pretending that socialism caused the famines they experienced, when socialism gradually erased famine and hunger in both Russia and China.
Valmond@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
But those alternatives comes with the same asholes, that's part why they don't function.
SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 359d
Yes, this is The Great Filter. We fix it or fade away.
SpookyLights@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 359d
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 358d
Socialism or barbarism.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 358d
Socialism doesn't "come with the same assholes," socialist states have made dramatic and comprehensive strides for the working class while oppressing the capitalists.
black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 359d
It's obvious from the fact that you think you can presume that you know just from what I said which of the vast diversity of socioeconomic systems I could be referring to tells me that you're one of the people I was talking about.
Valmond@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 359d
Found the tankie!
black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 359d
Lmao
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 358d
The system isn't formed based on the wills of individuals, nor is there an inherent "nice" or "mean" quality to people. If we all decide we want to live in a perfect utopia, that still won't take form, because that's not how societal progression works. We live in capitalism, because capitalism emerged from preceding modes of production like feudalism. It wasn't a choice people made, but an economic progression on the basis of private property and free-moving capital, which leads us to today where a tiny handful own the lion's share of production.
Capitalism is riddled with contradictions, however, and these contradictions sharpen over time. We move onto socialism by organizing, where we can actually take control of production and run it along a common plan to suit the needs of the people.
Edit: figured it's a good chance to plug my introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, if what I said makes sense to you!
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 358d
Socialism only works in small coherent groups. It doesn't scale. You can run a socialist business, or group, or town. Sure. People are generally pro socialism when it's amongst their own tribe.
You can't run a socialist multi-ethnic society for millions of people. Human tribalism.
All the socialists I know seem to have a hate hard on for working class people. At least where I live.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 358d
To the contrary, socialism can only work at scale. Small-scale cooperation exists, yes, but isn't really "socialism" as we understand it. A business cannot be "socialist," socialism is a descriptor for an entire mode of production, not a quantum unit of an economy. Socialism is a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect, and regularly is proven to be superior to capitalism. The largest economy in the world by PPP is socialist, the PRC, and it's a broad, diverse, multi-ethnic society of billions.
I think you'd do well to research more on socialism. "Human tribalism" is more of a response to immediate conditions within capitalism, a system dominated by private property. It isn't some eternal genetic fault in humans, over time we have become increasingly interconnected and interdependent. Socialism is the natural evolution from that point now that capitalism has already centralized the broad majority of production, meaning coherent and deliberate planning of the economy is more feasible.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 358d
You can't research socialism on a large scale because it has never existed.
You're arguing from an ideal. I'm arguing from reality. I look at evidence, not theoretical constructs of how the world 'should' be. '
PRC is not socialist dude. You are straight up delusional. It's autocratic capitalism. They pivoted to that after Maoism was a titanic failure. But hey, don't like history or facts get in the way of the fantasy in your head that you got from reading a few books?
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 358d
Socialism has existed on a large scale for over a century. The USSR was the first, and now we have countries like Cuba, Vietnam, the PRC, etc, all economies where public ownership is the principle aspect of society. I'm not arguing from an "ideal," I'm speaking purely about existing material reality. Using the PRC as an example, the large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly owned:
The PRC did introduce Reform and Opening Up after struggles within the Cultural Revolution and the Gang of Four. These reforms didn't change that public ownership is still the principle aspect of the economy, though. Private and cooperative ownership existed even under Mao, and economic growth was positive under Mao, just unstable, which the market reforms and introduction of special economic zones helped make stable and regular:
You didn't bring any facts to the table or any analysis, you just said "no" then insulted me. It"s insulting and utterly insufficient for proving your claims.
LinyosT@sopuli.xyz · 15 pts · 359d
Unfortunately society encourages and glorifies shitty behaviour. So this behaviour is completely normalised for the majority of people who see it as a thing to be desired, rather than something thats shitty.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 358d
Amen. Just look at media. Look at popular media.
Tells you all you need to know.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 359d
It damages my calm on a daily basis. Our society rewards sociopathy. It’s that simple. And I fucking hate it.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 358d
I've noticed this. Even in small groups of 'community' minded people. The sociopaths always rise to the top and the good honest people get pushed aside. And people LOVE it. Because the sociopaths tell people what they want to hear and people love being lied to.
And nothing pisses off a sociopath more when you aren't swayed by their bullshit or offer deference to their status. They get so angry with you and they will then character assassinate you, usually by spreading lies and rumors. And people eat it up because they'd rather believe in dramatic bullshit lies than the truth in front of their faces.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 358d
In my own circles, I tend to counter this by employing radical honesty, being extremely data driven, and calling out bullshit extremely aggressively whenever I possibly can. It for sure alienates people sometimes, but the people who are alienated tend to be the people who are also psychopaths, so I genuinely do not care about that “drawback”.
Red_October@piefed.world · 13 pts · 358d
I don't know where you're getting the idea that people don't care. People do care, a lot of people care a lot. Part of the problem is that people who want to act ethically and politely, people who want to minimize harm, are going to be at a distinct disadvantage when opposing people for whom the ends always justify the means, and the ends they seek are their own betterment above all else.
If your idea of action is sternly worded letters and peaceful protest, and my idea of action is violence and unabashed corruption of authority, you're going to have a real uphill battle to dislodge me from any power I manage to gain. It doesn't mean the corrupt assholes are unstoppable, only that their methods are more aligned with the acquisition and retention of power.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 359d
A bummer because im naturally nice and i get upset at people who aren't. I just dont get it. I feel awful if I'm mean or something by accident or get misinterpreted. I wonder what it is, because my parents are not very nice people.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 358d
I grew up in a household full of hateful bigoted ignorant people. I'm aware of the consequences of that.
People who didn't grow up with that experience aren't. I noticed most of the hateful ignorant people I meet grew up with 'supportive' parents... and basically were isolated form the consequences of their actions. They don't have ot be nice or kind... because they will get what they want regardless of how they behave because money and power and privileged.
These are also the same people who think anyone who doesn't have a elite degree or wear designer clothing is subhuman. They think they are inherently superior to other human beings because they possess these things... which were given to them by their wealthy families and they operated under the delusion that anyone who doesn't have those things just didn't work hard as they did. And anyone who doesn't want them... is mentally ill.
Bunbury@feddit.nl · 12 pts · 359d
I don’t think that there’s more assholes than decent people. I think the assholes just stick out more.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 358d
I think deep down most people are assholes. But it's just hard-wiring.
Not being a decent person is hard. And assholes won't think you're decent unless you are also an asshole with them.
WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 358d
More and more I see that a lot of people who think they’re “nice” are just lazy and largely uprincipled people who assume that they’re doing good simply because they have good intentions and they’re not actively creating problems.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 358d
Don't forget, supporting the status quo and doing the popular thing, regardless of how hypocritical it is.
What gets me is how openly hypocritical people are becoming. There is no more shame. I notice that many of the 'principled' people think their principles do not apply to them. Only other people that they don't like.
I'm not even talking politics. Often in personal relationships people will tell you how lying is awful, but then lie themselves and justify it by claiming that everyone else is doing it or that they had to do it because they are 'disadvantaged'.
zd9@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 359d
I know it may seem that way if you're constantly online these days, but in general most people are just people. Like 80% are mostly good, but human, and may have some minor issues. Probably 10% are Jesus-level good, then 10% are sociopathically evil.
Now, if by society you mean "American capitalism", then yes that favors assholes who care less about their fellow humans. This flavor of capitalism is inherently selfish and greedy, so those who succeed in it are the most greedy and bad people. Yes people care, but the forces preventing anyone from changing it are the strongest in the history of human civilization with technology too now, that makes it borderline impossible to change the underlying system. Only a major catastrophe caused by capitalism where millions of Americans died would cause the general populace to question the system, but honestly even then who fucking knows.
mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 359d
There are more assholes than good people because assholery typically delivers better results in terms of wealth, power, and status, and good people have to accept a lower social status in order to maintain their goodness, but most people don't fall into either category.
But the vast majority of people fall into an apathetic middle ground where they don't really think too much about any kind of moral consistency and act according to paths they're already on and the rules those paths require.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 358d
Yeah that's accurate. I accept lower social status for my goodness.
Turns out other people don't admire that. They admire assholes and they tend to think anyone who isn't seeking wealth, power, and status is mentally deficient. At least in USA. I have been told many times that me not rent-seeking and exploiting others is 'being lazy'.
ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 359d
Sure I care but what can I do besides voting?
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 358d
Organizing, which is far more important, and it isn't close. Voting is less than the bare minimum.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 358d
Live your life by example.
The world has enough people who preach and don't practice. It needs more people that practice and don't preach.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 357d
You need to educate and agitate and organize. It isn't an either/or situation, you need both so that theory and practice sharpen and reinforce each other. Ignoring one weakens the other.
frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 358d
You can do propaganda
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 358d
I can think of one recent event
not saying it's valid, just that it's a possibility
tonyn@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 359d
This is going to be an unpopular opinion because most people like to think of themselves as nice. I think it's not so much that there are nice people and assholes, but rather that almost everyone is an asshole some of the time.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 358d
pretty much. and most people think you're an asshole if you disagree with them.
can't tell you how many times I get told I am an asshole for not being into professional sports. for example. i think it's pretty harmless, but for pro-sports fanatics I'm a heathen to their religion.
Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 358d
It can certainly feel that way. And I do think there is no such thing as an ethical billionaire, if by favouring assholes you mean rewarding monetarily.
I argue though, that without kindness there would be no societies. Even if the parable of the Margaret Mead's healed femur isn't true, the fact remains that there are in fact those who help, and they are probably more plentiful than those who hurt. They're just harder to spot, because media makes money off emotions and fear and anger are stronger than hope.
To quote Mr Rogers "look for the helpers", because they are there. And if you're not seeing them, maybe it's time for a news break. Including social media, just for a week. And then see how you are feeling. I have to take breaks now and then, and I promise it helps.
SupahRevs@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 358d
Darwin talked about societies and advancement in species around communication. It is important for us to be able to communicate threats in order to build community. Assholes don't build lasting societies.
Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 358d
Thank you for articulating my point better!!!
calliope@retrolemmy.com · 6 pts · 359d
The assholes are louder or more annoying, but in my experience the vast majority of people are kind.
ArgumentativeMonotheist@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 359d
Selfish, childish, propagandized and mostly unthinking and amoral people are big enough pluralities in certain societies and only an ideological awakening post societal collapse could help it, yes. I mean, if you live in the West for instance, what exactly is stopping you from just "focusing on yourself", or pushing you to be prosocial and wise? 🤷
prex@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 359d
Why tf are so many people looking forward to societal collapse?
Talk - and listen to your neighbor, join a club, get outside or something. People are naturally social animals (this is what asshole rely on).
Can't we all just get along?
ArgumentativeMonotheist@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 359d
Want? Some societies are unviable and actively create discord, death and misery in others who could be. It's necessary for the world and the survival of the human race for some societies to rethink their entire "ideology" and attitudes.
SpookyLights@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 359d
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 358d
it makes them feel important. that's why.
That's why most cults have an element of apocalyptic baked in. Fear of the 'end' keeps people in line, and it also makes them feel like they are superior to those who are 'ignorant' of 'the end'.
The proto-revolutionaries in the comments here are of the same mindset. They are 'aware' want to collapse to come so they can demonstrate how right they were.
Not too different from horror/apocalypse movies too. The fun of those movies is the projection the viewer has about how they would not be as 'stupid' as the characters.
reallykindasorta@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 359d
Being shitty is much easier and takes much less effort so it prevails wherever people don’t collectively resist it.
Runaway@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 358d
Nice people are unwilling to do the things necessary to stop assholes. Nice people won't berate them, most won't call them out, etc etc.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 358d
Nice people will also turn on those of us who do call them out. Standing up to popular bully is the fastest way to get people to turn on you.
Popularity is what people care about. As long as violence is against unpopular people, it's great.
LavaPlanet@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 358d
The assholes bought everything up, including the law and politicians. They rigged the game so no one else can climb the same ladder they did. But, also, death throes look like this. They positioned themselves so that the entire populous of the earth can't sustain life, unless they don't. That imbalance is about to be corrected. It's gunna get a little bit worse before it gets better though, hang on.
RotatingParts@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 359d
I believe some amount of people support the assholes because some how they think (or hope) they will benefit by giving that support (especially so many of the assholes have so much power and money.) The "trickle down" effect from the assholes. Oops, might not have been the best phrase ... on second thought ...
BassTurd@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
It's the fear or apathy of the asshole to retaliate. I could be on a bus, and there could be an asshole playing music without headphones. Saying something could come with verbal abuse at the least and could end in a physical altercation with or without weapons at worst. As the annoyed passerby, is confronting the asshole worth the effort and risk for quiet?
I love calling people out when I can, but you gotta pick your battles.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 359d
assholes have certain qualities that make them better suited leaders and capitalists and artists or whatever else normal people don't do
folaht@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 358d
No. We live in a society that favors good people for the most part and it's getting better, just not for the US and it's toadies.
And all the bad people from the good countries move to the US so that they can beg the US to invade their own nation in order to become toadie leader #53.
What's happening right now is that this US hegemonic system is falling apart.