Luigi Mangione Could Escape Death Penalty Because of Trump’s Comments on Fox News and Tweets by DOJ Employees
https://www.mediaite.com/crime/luigi-mangione-could-escape-death-penalty-because-of-trumps-comments-on-fox-news-and-tweets-by-doj-employees/
1.0k points · 131 comments · view on lemmy.world
131 Comments
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 280 pts · 351d
He is innocent, obviously a patsy when they could not find the real culprit.
The pictures from the crime scene do not match, if the eyebrows do not fit you cannot convict.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 64 pts · 351d
I think he’s guilty and they only caught him through illegal means, and they realized they can’t reconstruct legal evidence so they have to smear him.
Inaminate_Carbon_Rod@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 351d
My thoughts as well.
I heard someone told the cashier where they caught him “hey that’s the CEO assassin guy, you should call it in and get the reward!”
Reeks of illegal surveillance.
Dragonstaff@leminal.space · 10 pts · 350d
It's called "parallel construction".
The police obtained some evidence illegally and inadmissably, so they pretend they got it somewhere else.
I've worked in fast food. There is zero chance someone at that McDonald's called in a tip like they said.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 350d
There was also that confession letter…
And it doesn’t make sense to dump a backpack but not the gun.
Ironfist79@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 351d
Obviously it was some Puerto Rican guy.
zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -25 pts · 351d
Hmm, not so sure about the innocence, imho. Also the photos I saw look very much like him. But I am a layman and open for arguments.
I am however curious about the eyebrows-argument. Is there maybe a video or blog, where someone with a background of crime investigation analyzes the provided screen caps and other evidence?
Edit: imagine downvoting an opinion you don’t like, instead of actually answering the question and helping understand the situation. This is not even a debate lmao
Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works · 42 pts · 351d
Here is my argument. He only looks similar. They "found" a gun when searching the backpack way later out of eyewitnesses. Why would he have a manifest and such with him in an entirely different state after leaving a crime scene. But I'm also just a layman and could be wrong.
wax@feddit.nu · 18 pts · 351d
Or he's the guy, but they had no (legal) way to tie him to it and therefore planted the evidence.
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 351d
Has he made any sort of public statement about it?
zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 351d
Well, humans can act weird, especially under heavy stress. You usually don’t just kill someone for the very first time and shrug it off. However, I do actually not know when and where they found the evidence. If the manifest was handwritten, then it is quite easy to find out if he wrote it.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 350d
The usual stress action in these sort of cases is to dump evidence immediately. In fact, the actual hero kind of did that by leaving a backpack in the nearby park.
meco03211@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 351d
Guys I think we
findfound the real killer! Everyone be on the lookout for zr0 getting his eyebrows waxed or altered to mask his true appearance!zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 351d
I did not come up with the argument and I have actually no clue how important eyebrows are in a criminal case
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 351d
I think he was innocent because it was clearly self defense.
zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 351d
Yeah I think we all are on the same page about what monster the CEO was
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club · 6 pts · 350d
The photos from the crime scene do not match his photos, the youth hostel is another story that looks like him, the photo of the guy with the surgical mask on the street where it happened, not the same guy. You can shave off unibrows, you cannot grow one in a week. Plus other facial features do not match.
athatet@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 350d
Who ever said anything about a debate?
frongt@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 351d
There is reasonable doubt based on what has been provided to the public. But I am sure there is a lot more evidence to be shown at trial.
zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 351d
You say reasonable doubt. Who is saying this?
frongt@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 351d
Me. No one of importance is, because the trial hasn't started yet.
danc4498@lemmy.world · 195 pts · 351d
Death penalty for a murder of a single persons seems harsh. I’m anti death penalty 100% of the time, though.
Kirp123@lemmy.world · 125 pts · 351d
They want the death penalty in case other Americans get ideas. They want to make an example out of him.
PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world · 67 pts · 351d
It's a thin line between making an example or making a martyr of him, so the case will likely perpetually linger in limbo.
chunes@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 351d
ToastedRavioli@midwest.social · 76 pts · 351d
Even people who are okay with the death penalty in a moral sense should be against it for logical reasons. Once you factor in the cost of the appeals system, the cost of the drugs themselves, the cost of paying out people or families when the drugs dont work as theyre supposed to, and the cost of keeping people in prison on death row, it is infinitely more expensive than just putting someone in prison for life.
As a society, not to mention as taxpayers, we pay a huge premium to let the state exact barbaric revenge on people
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 27 pts · 351d
I'm okay with the death penalty in cases like treason or insurrection.
When it's clear that they committed the crimes.
In broad daylight.
For everyone to see.
On live television.
With absolutely no doubt that they are guilty.
Soggy@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 351d
Some governments deserve to be treasoned or insurrected.
Mynameisallen@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 351d
Almost all
frongt@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 351d
You want this administration being the arbiter of what is treason?
laserjet@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 351d
good news, donald trump just banned anti fascism. one step closer to your glorious dream.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 351d
i want to say i'm a civilized, evolved person. then some people i wish would get the ol' Robert-François Damiens. people have inconsistencies, like good corn muffin batter. fuck i should bake some muffins.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 349d
Treason, are you sure? Careful what you wish for. I would imagine you are not a trump supporter right? The left will soon be treasonous in the US. They will soon be rounding up people for treason, how will you feel when you are picked up? Are you still calling for the death penalty now?
WoodScientist@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 351d
I oppose the death penalty. No one has the right to take a single life, let alone the 40,000 people that Brian Robert Thompson murdered in cold blood.
Wolf@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 351d
I used to be ok with it in certain circumstances, until I found out how many innocent people get convicted and how many people put to death were exonerated later. I'm against the entire prison system now though. It's modern slavery and the state shouldn't be trusted with that kind of power.
arrow74@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 351d
I can support the idea of a death penalty when someone kills multiple people and there's good evidence.
However I can never support the implementation of the death penalty as I believe the state should never have the right tl execute its own citizens. And I believe it cannot be trusted with that authority
andallthat@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 350d
ah I see you're still using "person" as a measurement unit instead of the more modern "net worth"
hayvan@feddit.nl · 13 pts · 350d
Am I the only one to find the phrase "net worth" disgusting? It should be "net wealth" or something.
andallthat@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 350d
No, there are at least 2 of us. Even the concept that it's somehow a useful measure to anyone else than your local tax authorities (except maybe for people running for public office) sounds a bit iffy to me.
So you are right that giving it a name that ties it to your "worth" as a person is terrible.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 350d
Is it net worth, or how much money this guy gave Trump behind the scenes?
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works · -97 pts · 351d
This particular murder is a challenge to the rule of law as a basic principle in a way that, for example, multiple murders by a serial killer are not. The serial killer does more direct harm, but IMO this murder requires more forceful repudiation by society.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 72 pts · 351d
The tag I gave you months ago checks out.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social · 10 pts · 351d
The desire to engage in meaningful discussions that would never go anywhere wasting my time have been avoided. Thank you.
laserjet@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 351d
LOL I am on web and after reading the above comment I thought "I wish was using Voyager so I could tag that user"
parlaptie@feddit.org · 3 pts · 351d
TIL you can tag users in Voyager. I've been using it since I moved to Lemmy and never knew.
cabillaud@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 350d
You can tag users in Thunder too
Sternout@feddit.org · 1 pts · 351d
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 351d
It's a handy feature. Boost has it too!
Wolf@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 351d
There's an extension for Firefox that I use
cenzorrll@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 350d
Nice, now I kind of wish you could see what other people have tagged users as. Except for the rampant abuse that would proliferate from that capability.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 350d
Haha, yeah I know what you mean.
5too@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 350d
...huh. I read that as giving the viewpoint of this administration, not as presenting a more fundamental (to them) truth.
I suspect you've got the more accurate read; thanks for posting this!
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 350d
That’s awesome how do I do this. I keep seeing these enablers or bots with increasing frequency
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 350d
Do you use web or a mobile app? Voyager, thunder, and boost have this as a feature, and apparently there's a Firefox extension that can do it also
Tippy@sh.itjust.works · 31 pts · 351d
What do we do about the murder of thousands by using AI to refuse medical care, and instead funnel the profits to shareholder portfolios?
F_State@midwest.social · 16 pts · 351d
This particular murder is a challenge more to the system of control than to the rule of law. It's not society but the oligarchy who believe it requires a more forceful repudiation. Otherwise power might start to shift out of their hands and back to the people.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 15 pts · 351d
And what exactly makes this one worse than others?
The victim being rich and powerful, unlike most murder victims?
The victim belonging to a group of people very lucrative to the powers that be?
The fact that your favorite authoritarian politicians and talking heads said so on tv?
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works · -10 pts · 350d
The aggravating factor is not the identity of the victim but rather the intent of the murderer. There have already been two more murders inspired at least partially by the murder of Brian Thompson (at least to the extent that the killers also wrote messages on the shell casings). If the rule of law is to be preserved, then it must be made clear that those who try to use violence as a tool for extralegal social change will not succeed, and that they will be punished severely.
cabillaud@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 350d
No significant social change has been acquired without violence, like it or not.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 350d
I'd personally argue that the motive is a huge mitigating factor in this case. Especially when you consider the hell that the insurance industry leeches put him and his family through.
IF it's even him, that is.
I'm of the opinion that law doesn't automatically equal justice and that justice is MUCH more important than law.
Which is why I consider illegal but justifiable actions against legally entrenched injustice much less egregious than that which is unjust but perfectly legal.
5too@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 350d
The problem with this line of thinking is that people like Brian Thompson are excused entirely. How much pain, suffering, and unnecessary death did Brian Thompson enable with his policies? And what recourse did his victims have?
Fix that problem, and attacks like this don't happen in the first place.
Geodad@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 350d
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 349d
Talk to your buddy trump about respecting the rule of law. Also, violence is inherent with government, what the fuck are you talking about?
Do you think not respecting Hebeas Corpus is not violent? How about putting hard-working innocent people in chains and sending them to concentration camps?
You have serious issues.
lemmyseikai@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 351d
Username checks out.
Arbitrary benchmarks.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 351d
Why I think we should give this man a trophy and a lifetime supply of chocolate. Anybody that kills the Nazi should be given the same treatment that our world war II soldiers were given. Fucking ticker tape parade for this motherfucker.
tomenzgg@midwest.social · 3 pts · 351d
This feels like something you'd enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyR8XgrwE4w
Idontcare@lemmynsfw.com · 2 pts · 348d
I don't know if they did, but I sure did. That was fantastic.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 351d
Maybe if the rule of law was doing it's fucking job and punishing these insurance bastards like they deserve randos wouldn't have to gun them down in the street. Society should be grateful SOMEONE did something about it.
5too@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 350d
From what I've been hearing, society IS grateful.
Just not the billionaires, and the media they control is how they voice it.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 349d
If that is your take then you are a monster. A sociopathic monster.
The CEO in question was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people through sheer greed.
You are not a human being.
danc4498@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 351d
I guess it makes sense. A principled murder needs harsher punishment than even a serial killer… That’s the theory anyway.
selkiesidhe@sh.itjust.works · 131 pts · 351d
Luigi shouldn't be in jail at all. He was just looking out for several million of his friends.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 112 pts · 351d
Not to mention that he clearly isn't the shooter.
m4xie@lemmy.ca · 31 pts · 351d
That was someone with very different eyebrows. The only thing we know about his appearance.
Wolf@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 351d
It couldn't have been him, Luigi and I were fishing that day all day long. We both wept when we heard the news.
87Six@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 350d
My mother was one of the ones without proper health care and the CEO death triggered a change that put her back on health care... Now I have to deal with her longer because she won't die. A sad day truly, Luigi said so too
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 350d
I know Italians grow hair fast, but not that fast.
Juice@midwest.social · 4 pts · 350d
As completely innocent people are wont to do
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 100 pts · 351d
He should be released and compensated for the time he spent behind bars. He is innocent.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world · 94 pts · 350d
Everyone say it with me, "Luigi Mangione is an innocent man being framed by the government because they were unable to find the real culprit."
#free Luigi
MBech@feddit.dk · 15 pts · 350d
I'm really not convinced that's the case. Either way I want him to walk free. Killing the CEO was the morally right thing to do. That CEO has been part of the system that has murdered thousands/millions out of pure greed.
Scrollone@feddit.it · 10 pts · 350d
I agree with you in theory, but I think we should all pretend he's actually innocent
FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 350d
Don’t know how much pretending needs to be done, burden of proof is on the state and their evidence gathering was laughable, also not a single McDonald’s employee in the history of the universe has intentionally called the pigs, they all have drugs in their jackets and they’ll just come over the counter and fight you. Some mysterious do gooder called in a guy sitting quietly that led directly to the “shooter” and fully intact weapon ready to scoop up? Fuck outta here with that
Then again, we’re just playing Calvinball with the law now so who knows.
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 349d
He is actually innocent. No need for jury nullification.
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 349d
Well hold on. Being convinced of one's innocence isn't how that works. You have to be convinced that the evidence brought forward is sufficient to support the accusations. I have yet to see anything sufficiently convincing.
Taking it from the top, the only legitimate evidence you have to go on must be gathered from the scene of the crime. DNA, gunpowder, fingerprints. That sort of thing. But the only evidence is that they found an Italian in New York? Be so fucking for real. Remember, the backpack was reported to be discarded several times. Law enforcement couldn't even agree on WHERE the final backpack was sourced. And even IF the backpack did belong to Luigi, none of what was inside is proof that he stood where the shooter stood. There is no proof physically connecting him to the point in space where the shooting occurred. That's the only evidence I care about. You need to rationalize the lack of evidence connecting luigi to that physical spot in New York.
The CCTV footage is spotty and inconsistent. That's like LAPD losing a car in a high speed chase, not being able to see the license plate and catching some random guy who drives the same model car several days later.
They found an Italian in New York. That's the only thing I've been convinced of.
RandomlyGeneratedName@lemmy.world · 70 pts · 350d
bigbabybilly@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 350d
Stick me on that same jury. Not guilty x2.
Jaysyn@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 350d
It's literally self defense at this point.
Scrollone@feddit.it · 2 pts · 350d
I bet they will "randomly" find a jury that doesn't think like us...
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 60 pts · 350d
BilboBargains@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 350d
Given the general discontent with healthcare it feels inevitable. People identify with Mangione's plight in a way they don't with the money grubbing CEO.
frog_brawler@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 350d
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -5 pts · 350d
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 350d
I count four
Tuxman@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 350d
Lights?
rarsamx@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 349d
More, if you read between the lines.
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -3 pts · 350d
buddascrayon@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 350d
Just knowing about this can disqualify you from being on a jury. And lying about knowing about it can get you a jail sentence.
Geodad@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 350d
buddascrayon@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 350d
The point is that you should probably stop smoking weed cause your brain has become mashed potatoes. If you are disqualified from the jury you can't help anything and if you get arrested for lying they will change the entire jury, considering it completely compromised.
The real point is, stop talking about it. Choose instead to talk about how innocent you think the man is so that you don't risk tainting potential jurors who might be sympathetic to your point of view.
I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
Geodad@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 350d
buddascrayon@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 350d
No, I was also just making a joke because what you commented was idiotic.
However, I've smoked weed and lived around people who smoke weed. So I'm quite familiar with the effects and you should probably cut down.
Geodad@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 350d
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 6 pts · 350d
I don't think even that is necessary. The prosecution has been so flimsy that a simple acquittal will do.
AA5B@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 350d
This really seems like a scenario where that’s the ideal result. Even assuming he were guilty and the prosecution were able to prove it, he should not be convicted based on the extenuating circumstances of exploitative healthcare costing needless harm and death to millions
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 350d
or summary judgement.
qualia@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 350d
Aren't those only for civil trials?
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz · 60 pts · 351d
We need a new US monument/shrine where we can pilgrimage to and make an offering to the god of incompetence (which one is that again?) for smiling kindly upon us. It feels wrong to be relying so solely on the power of one god here without offering up any kind of gift in thanks.
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de · 33 pts · 351d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ate_(mythology)
MeThisGuy@feddit.nl · 5 pts · 350d
like this one?
REDACTED@infosec.pub · 50 pts · 351d
Random, but at this point why not claim he was trying to kill leftists, at which point Trump would forgive him?
BanMe@lemmy.world · 57 pts · 351d
That CEO guy was antifa
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 350d
The CEO said mean things about Charlie Kirk.
Scrollone@feddit.it · 2 pts · 350d
And he was also about to publish some files by a guy called Jeffrey.
maxxadrenaline@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 350d
If I were on the Jury hes innocent. My grandma died from a bad premium.
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 350d
I doubt the defense would go that route but I'm really curious how it would turn out. Like you're allowed to use deadly force to save a life, and it could be reasonably argued that hundreds, maybe thousands of lives were saved in the aftermath of the shooting.
Realistically there's no way that can be allowed to be a legal precident, but it would be funny to try.
SippyCup@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 350d
Jury nullification doesn't require a reason and isn't usually cited as precedent.
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 350d
I meant specifically a not guilty verdict on the grounds of defense. That would be wild. Obviously nullification or some technicality of law is going to be the best bet.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 349d
rarsamx@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 349d
So, you really think that a new CEO will act any differently? No lives were saved. The problem is the system. Not an individual CEO.
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 349d
In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, insurance companies knee jerk approved a shitload of claims they would have normally denied. Even if that's been "fixed," the positive effect happened and was not negligible.
Capricorn_Geriatric@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 351d
Is it just me, or do all the new news pics of Luigi look less... Pro-Luigi?
ComradeRachel@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 24 pts · 350d
Honestly the death penalty is cruel. The government should not be executing people.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 350d
Mostly he'll avoid the death penalty because he didn't do it. Trump's comments just make it a bit easier.
unconsequential@slrpnk.net · 21 pts · 351d
Great work Trump! … eww… that felt weird.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 18 pts · 351d
Where are all the "jury nullification" comments?
Psythik@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 351d
[Jury Nullification Comment]
nasalpitch17@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 350d
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 351d
NutWrench@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 349d
As a member of a jury, you absolutely have the right to refuse to indict. Just make sure you don't mention jury nullification during the jury selection process. Judges and prosecutors hate that.
tankplanker@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 349d
How many times can he be retried for the same crime if the Jury does that? As I fully expect Trump to demand the DOJ keep doing it as many times as they can
the_crotch@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 349d
I mention it every time I'm in the jury selection process to ensure I never have to do jury duty
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 351d
Trump's first extrajudicial killing coming?
Who am I kidding, it's not the first lol
Zorsith@piefed.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 351d
Wouldn't even be the first this week
maxxadrenaline@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 350d
Mansions saved thousands of lives and more for future generations. Those poor people being denied health…
Welt@lazysoci.al · 10 pts · 350d
Nah this thread isn't about the housing crisis
camelbeard@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 350d
How, is united healtcare bankrupt? Did they change and approve everyone? AFAIK they are just as scummy with a different CEO.
npcknapsack@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 349d
In the wake of the shooting, the immediate aftermath, a lot of people suddenly got the health care they'd been denied. It's true that they didn't change long term, but for a little while, they did.
It is so horrible to know that these people need to be actually afraid or they'll continue to hurt people.
magnetosphere@fedia.io · 6 pts · 351d
I’m a fan of barely-restrained snark. That closing sentence is a great example.
buttnugget@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 349d
If anyone is to get the death penalty—which I’m against—it should be the people calling for him to get the death penalty.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 349d
You won't be able to rely on the judge, so it'll come down to jury nullification.
Expect an executive order banning that any day now (not that such a ban would make any sense or be enforceable for any reason other than "Trump don't like it.")
fodor@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 350d
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 350d
This plus the mishandling of evidence has derailed cases before. The one that comes to mind is Weather Underground. There isn't much doubt that they blew up some monuments and were planning some more. None of them were ever prosecuted because the FBI fucked up.
iamdefinitelyoverthirteen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 350d
I was royally confused because I thought you were talking about the website. TIL. Thanks.
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 350d
Really if the state is messing with the jury it should be an automatic mistrial. The reason is so the government learns their lesson and shuts the fuck up and stops trying to influence the jurors. If the judge doesn't do this then of course trump will keep sticking his dick in every legal process that doesn't go his way.