anyone else both afraid to smile at men, but also afraid to not be nice?

First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win.

We survived the attack helicopter era and now they're fighting us. That's because we're winning. We used to be ignored because nobody stood up for us, now most people support us. We're so close to winning.

When was it that trans people were allowed to live healthy lives, again?

anyone who is male who opens up to anyone else, male or female or trans, gets socially rejected. anytime i have opened up about any experience in my life i am socially rejected. women don't understand this because it is normal for them to express emotions constantly and often socially celebrated and rewarded. male expression is viewed as hostile, bizarre, and a symptom of mental illness.

the only place men can open up is in professional places, like your therapist or therapy group.

it's pretty easy. just think of a woman crying on a bench after a breakup. people will be concerned. a man doing this, will be viewed with hostility and suspicion.

Maybe they should try being gay then.

They woooont

Hi, not sure if you're aware but this community is Women'sSuff, a woman only community for women to discuss women's topics with other women. Rule 1 says women only quite clearly. We appreciate your input but would prefer you relay your experiences elsewhere in future.

Tha5s why you always gotta be a bitch in public.

yes, it's a real double bind, and it's even worse because I'm afraid of what men will do; one time a man was frustrated with me and they literally physically grabbed me and started to push me- I know they feel they have a right to touch me, so I want to be polite and nice to avoid their anger or frustration, there's a real sense of danger and wanting to placate

thanks for your comment, but unfortunately this community has a rule that only women are permitted to comment or post, so please don't comment further

hope you understand 💛

that's a good point, it's like a social cloak!

That is the only condition I'll smile in public.

If they're getting paid to be there, best to assume it's not flirting.

thanks for your comment, but unfortunately this community has a rule that only women are permitted to comment or post, so please don't comment further

hope you understand 💛

That’s easy to say, but especially for young women, it’s a trap. I had to learn fast and hard in my teens that if I smile and talk to men like I talk to women, men will turn it around and say I was “leading them on.” Sometimes reacting angrily upon rejection, making their hurt feelings my fault.

I learned the balance in time, but for a while I stopped making eye contact with male strangers entirely. Older men are especially gross to friendly young women. There’s this assumption that any pretty young lady must be flirting.

Not to mention, a lot of men on the autism spectrum will be quick to use that as an excuse. I’m a woman on the spectrum, but I don’t get any leeway in this - I’m expected to somehow know the way others will interpret my actions, despite struggling with the same issues. The double-standard is ridiculous.

Edit: nice, downvoting a woman for expressing her experience in a women-only community.

business bees, lol - I love it

for some reason this is reminding me so much of this character from a British sitcom called Coupling, her name is Sally and she is beauty-obsessed; one day she realizes her smiles are causing wrinkles, so she declares she will from then on only smile at single men 😆 then we watch her attempt to only smile at single men the rest of the episode

Damnit, and here goes my business plan for free smiles :(

So you read the rules and you commented anyway?

It's a trans-inclusive women's com, no one's checking chromosomes.

er, I'm not sure quoting another woman is a suitable exception to the rules - maybe in the future please refrain; I appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to contribute, but it's important that we respect the rules

Bro said "female"

"Think you're beautif-"

"I have no interest in men. I will never want to fuck you. Odds are you're more enthusiastic about fucking someone who looks like you than I am."

"Got it got it"

(30 seconds later)

"So, uh, you wanna make out"

It's really clear you've either never presented as femme while outside or never spoken to a man.

I agree with you but it’s a minefield. And the goalposts shift. For example, one time I was leaving a bar after stopping for food on my way home from work. I brought a comic book to read as a signal I didn’t want to chit-chat. This took place in the parking lot, with a guy easily double my age, and I’m no spring chicken.

“Hey baby” (yelled from halfway across the parking lot)

“Not interested, thanks.” (Said dismissively)

“Bitch, I don’t want to fuck you!” (Said extremely aggressively)

“Not interested in a conversation either!” (Said in singsong)

“No wonder you are here alone, cunt.” (Intent obvious)

Like.. no shit? I made myself unavailable for a reason, but even minding one’s own business isn’t enough to escape abuse.

Just a reminder:

WomensStuff is a trans inclusive women's only community. Do not comment unless you are part of that group

Hi, welcome to WomensStuff, the women only community for women to talk about women's stuff with other women. In case you missed the rules in the sidebar, this is a women only space. Please be mindful of the rules of this community in future.

thanks for your comment, but unfortunately this community has a rule that only women are permitted to comment or post, so please don't comment further

hope you understand 💛

I'm sorry you suffer from low self-esteem 🫂

thanks for your comment, but unfortunately this community has a rule that only women are permitted to comment or post, so please don’t comment further

hope you understand 💛