No, you can fly to avoid the creation of contrails. Ironically, would actually be a boon for the environment, since contrail clouds are massive greenhouse generators https://youtube.com/shorts/qBPwloCdRKw
They are, but clouds disproportionately reflect IR. Basically the energy comes in as a mix of high, medium and low energy light. The earth re-radiates as low energy IR. Clouds trap this keeping the warmth (and energy) in.
Gonna call BS on that short. Clouds cool the atmosphere because they reflect incoming visible light. Clouds also absorb infrared light, causing a greenhouse effect, but they also do that when they're not condensed into clouds. Their infrared absorption depends primarily on their composition, which doesn't change. Contrails are basically equivalent to cloud seeding, which is a method of cooling the atmosphere by increasing cloud cover.
Current scientific consensus is that contrails are a net contributor to warming (they trap more heat from escaping the atmosphere than they prevent from entering overall) - but it's a complex phenomena that's difficult to model, so studies vary a lot in estimating the magnitude of this effect - from being a fraction of airplane CO2 emissions, to being several time that.
This isn't someone guessing, man. He's citing research on the topic.
Essentially, these clouds are 50% opacity to visible light, but nearly 100% in infrared. So they block some incoming light, but reflect almost all infrared from the surface. It's a net warming effect at these altitudes.
Contrails are mostly water vapour that's condensed due to the hot exhaust of airplane engines.
They are certainly not completely avoidable, they are likely inescapable without sacrificing significant fuel efficiencies (eg: all methods stealth fighters use to suppress or mask their exhaust heat signature).. which would negate any benefits to global warming.
P. s. I'm not going to watch a YouTube video that could be a few paragraphs of textual explanation, because it'll no doubt be eight times longer than it needs to be for the benefit of more ad money or promotion in the almighty algorithm.
And maybe people dismiss comments that dont get liked and assume the answer that gets liked is "more correct". Yes I wish it would work without the likes systemy but in reality 90% of the internet is AI slop and misinformation.
Its not a huge breakthrough in research, mate - its a feasibility study. Its claims are promising, but until its tested in the real world it's just interesting, not a breakthrough.
Upvotes don't mean much, they don't change the ranking of comments like on worse social media like Facebook or Reddit. Don't worry about them. I've seen very useful and valuable comments downvoted to heck and vice-versa.
Its been tested by now, Ive looked into it a little. Seems like 90% of the time contrails form inside clouds and there is no benefit in avoiding them there. So simply avoiding contrails altogether is not recommended, but avoiding the ones forming in a clear sky would be pretty easy and extremely efficient warming-wise.
Upvotes matter in the sense that comments with negative upvotes get dismissed more easily without thinking about them. Less people would watch a video from a comment with -5 votes than one with +100.
I'm not going to watch a YouTube video that could be a few paragraphs of textual explanation, because it'll no doubt be eight times longer than it needs to be for the benefit of more ad money or promotion in the almighty algorithm.
The linked one is a short video with a duration of 02:37. There's no padding in this one. Naturally, you can't actually get all of the nuances of the full-duration video, which also can't cover the full nuances of the study itself that it's based on (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/2634-4505/ad310c).
Pop science videos making studies accessible to the general public are good, actually. I recommend that you stop being dismissive of them. Had you actually put in the time, you wouldn't have posted things that are in direct contradiction with the latest science on the subject, spreading misinformation in the process.
I've got no interest in watching even 2.5 minute YouTube videos when I can read the text of the same content in 45 seconds. Instructional videos can be great and valuable, but that's not what we're talking about here. There are a wealth of crap pop science videos on YouTube that misrepresent studies.
The study is interesting, but it's a feasibility study data utilizing a theoretical models - there are a lot of assumptions here. If they or other researchers go on to perform trials using their proposed flight adjustments to the autopilot software and validate it works, great! Until then, it's very far from settled science. Here is another recent study that proposes the main problem is incompletely-burned fuel which causes soot particles that sustain the contrails in the atmosphere for much longer than contrails from low-soot contrails, which quickly diaperse. This is an emerging field of study with few published studies and varying ideas on how to resolve issues.
Maybe if people want to share emerging scientific information that's important to them on a written forum they should put in the time to look to more valuable text sources, instead of dropping YouTube links with overconfident assertions that will put off people from watching them, eg, "contrails are completely avoidable".
You have remarkable audacity for continuing to argue the point while also boasting about how you’ll ignore any information that isn’t spoon fed to you in your format of choice. Sooner or later, you’re going to miss something that way and make an ass of yourself, if that didn’t already just happen in front of our eyes.
God forbid I actually read sources, and prefer reading to taking heads on a video platform that is designed to waste people's time in endless content crawls.
You call me audacious yet here you are stepping into a discussion to try your best to belittle and chastise an internet stranger with a different opinion.
It’s a 2:35 short , btw. Quite dense and to the point. And one of the points is that you’re wrong about it not offsetting the extra fuel to avoid contrail zones.
That YouTube Short seems to be a valid one. It's by someone who (according to his own words) has a PhD in atmospheric physics. Basically, he says that contrails causes global warming by preventing heat from escaping from Earth, and that contrails are mostly only formed when a plane flies through a cold humid patch. By simply re-routing planes around these cold patches, the contrails could be reduced.
By simply re-routing planes around these cold patches, the contrails could be reduced.
And routes now are generally chosen to be the most fuel-efficient, subject to regulatory constraints such as avoiding overflight of areas of high population density. So any alternate path will be longer and burn more fuel.
According to this one study [1] that focused on Japanese airspace, 2.2% of the flights causes 80% of all contrail energy forcing (EF).
A small-scale strategy of selectively diverting 1.7% of the fleet could reduce the contrail EF by up to 59.3% [52.4, 65.6%], with only a 0.014% [0.010, 0.017%] increase in total fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. A low-risk strategy of diverting flights only if there is no fuel penalty, thereby avoiding additional long-lived CO2 emissions, would reduce contrail EF by 20.0% [17.4, 23.0%].
The re-routing can simply be achieved by changing the flight elevation by 2000 feet one or the other direction.
[1] Teoh, Roger et al. “Mitigating the Climate Forcing of Aircraft Contrails by Small-Scale Diversions and Technology Adoption.” Environmental science & technology vol. 54,5 (2020): 2941-2950. doi:10.1021/acs.est.9b05608
My legit question is then, is the impact on the average temperature by reducing the visible trails greater or less than the impact of adding the emissions from the extra fuel spent.
My gut tells me no, those number seem small, but small numbers often lie, and impacts to the chemical makeup of the atmosphere is an ongoing change whereas a trail of condensation is a short lived phenomenon.
This is not an argument either way, it seems like a legitimate question to me. It’s also not the question that “chemtrails” conspiracy theorists would ask.
As said in the video everyone refused to watch, it doesn’t require all new routes but occasional 1-2% course deviations or altitude changes for a minority of flights. It’s also claimed that contrails have far, far more warming effect than any additional carbon that might be emitted by this. But hey, he posted it in a video so FUCK HIM, RITE?
According to him, the contrails have very potent effect on global warming. Apparently, contrails from just one year's flights has almost the same effect as all the CO2 emitted by all flights ever. Re-routing extends the flight by only so much, so the added CO2 emission has negligible effect.
I'm not saying this is wrong because I don't know shit but when ships crossing the Atlantic were forced to switch to low sulfur fuel a few years ago the North Atlantic rose in temp a few degrees. Turned out the sulfur in the exhaust was causes clouds to form in the atmosphere and was shading the ocean and masking global warming in that region. Pretty much the opposite effect of what you're saying this dude is claiming.
Speaking with my limited knowledge, there apparently are cooling contrails and warming contrails, but the warming ones are more common. I don't know why or when the contrails are cooling or warming.
It would be pretty funny if that makes those people snap and they end up being the ones to drag Trump and his cronies into the street and tear him apart like zombies.
Though they’d likely all just be shot to death while trying, which I guess maybe win-win?
Well a key trait of all right wingers is stabbing each other in the back when it benefits themselves directly so they’d just claim they were woke trans terrorists after they shot the lot of them.
Considering how stupid those who want this are, they'll just go oh see, they stopped doing chemicals in the trails now!. Or 50/50 chance want all jet planes banned 🤷
Legality never stopped the USA from spraying radioactive mist (zinc cadmium sulfide) over Medicine Hat, Alberta and a couple other smaller towns not just Canada, but their own citizens too during the Cold War as a funny little experiment to see how radioactive fallout from nukes would move around the environment. Higher than average local birth defects are the legacy of that, which almost everyone is ignorant of.
But yeah the conspiracy that it's widespread and regular behaviour is so fucking goofy.
Hell yeah, brother. People have elevated the presumed sanctity of their beliefs, no matter how stupid, to be the most sacred of liberties. Even over life and health.
nah, Sheila Jackson Lee, Democrat, member of the Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics of the House, asked if the Mars rover took a pic of the flag planted by Neil Armstrong.
Eh. They’re also blaming flooding on cloud seeding based on bad anecdotes.
The camp mystic flood, that was a massive storm that dumped shitoads of rain in an area known to prone to flash flooding, all because a conservative commentator in ala-fucking-bama happened to be near camp mystic in Texas to see them seeding clouds… just before the flood started
Probably, I suspect, because they don’t want to admit that GOP policies in Texas are fucking people over. Like the lack of being connected to either national power grid, or in the case of camp mystic, a dore lacking of storm/flood management infrastructure. (Including warning systems.)
I just read the article, and I think it's completely misrepresenting the bill! From what I can see, the article is just inventing this link to the chemtrails conspiracy.
Does this bill ever mention the word "chemtrails" or "contrails", at all?
From what I can tell, the bill is completely talking about cloud seeding, which is definitely its own thing. Cloud seeding is fraught enough, it's a relatively complicated issue with very serious environmental impacts, it does not need to be mixed up chemtrails which are a bullshit conspiracy theory (the opposite of a serious issue).
Hey Alabama Political Reporter go find your journalistic integrity, I think you dropped it somewhere.
No. A chemical compound, a substance, or an apparatus into the atmosphere within or above this state for the purpose of affecting the weather, including temperature, climate, and intensity of sunlight.
Holley and others were speaking on House Bill 25 by State Representative Mack Butler, R-Rainbow City, which would create a Class B misdemeanor for the injection, release or dispersal of “a chemical, a chemical compound, a substance, or an apparatus into the atmosphere within or above this state for the purpose of affecting the weather, including temperature, climate, and intensity of sunlight.”
Apart from 2018, the white-Black turnout gap increased each year from 2012 through 2022. During last year’s election, the white-Black gap was 9 points — triple the size of the gap only a decade ago. Put differently, some 90,000 more Black voters would have participated in Alabama last year if Black turnout had reached parity with white turnout. The white-nonwhite turnout gap remained at 13 percentage points, the same as in 2020 — translating to roughly 150,000 ballots uncast by people of color.
It bans cloud seeding and geoengineering. Passing this off as a 'ban on chemtrails' is deliberately dishonest.
a Class B misdemeanor for the injection, release or dispersal of “a chemical, a chemical compound, a substance, or an apparatus into the atmosphere within or above this state for the purpose of affecting the weather, including temperature, climate, and intensity of sunlight.
Unfortunately "the purpose of a system is what it does" doesn't count as a valid argument when the ones in charge of the system have more money than the courts :/
They claim the recent floods were because of chemtrails from planes seeding in the sky (those trails of water vapour you see behind planes, ), based on aluminium found on the ground (cloud seeding is done with silver iodide btw and is incredibly expensive).
The sad thing is that there is a huge amount that could be done for global warming with some basic legislation around contrails. Clouds that high in the atmosphere are quite bad in terms of greenhouse effect. By avoiding flying through areas that they'd be generated there's a surprisingly large environmental benefit for minimal cost. A good explainer: https://youtu.be/QoOVqQ5sa08
I never thought it about as a green house thing before though I do remember reading an article many years ago that contrails do contribute when they spread out into cirrostratus clouds.
I was a meteorologist in the Air Force and did make forecasts telling pilots at what levels to fly to avoid making contrails since having a long silver line pointing to your exact location makes sneak attacks a little difficult. Perhaps commercial airlines should make use of that information. It's usually just a few thousand foot difference. Fly a little higher or lower and problem solved.
But just a friendly reminder that secular and atheist are two different things.
Secularism is just a separation of religious affairs and government/state/public affairs.
All I’m saying by adding secular to public schools is that Christian charter schools shouldn’t be funded with public funds; and that creationism/intelligent design/other things of that sort should be key out of the classroom. (And abstinence-only shouldn’t be taught in sex ed for fucks sake.)
Indeed, we need to go with what the evidence says works.
These "Voucher Programs" for Christian Schools is a huge problem. I have a cousin who flunked out of public school and is now in a Christian Private School. His overly religious father and Church have completely ruined the boy's perception of reality.
A big reason why he flunked public school is he'd refuse any assignment that acknowledged the big bang, existence of dinosaurs, existence of evolution, or the idea that the Earth is older than 6000 years.
So Science was a big no.
I'm geniunely worried the kid is going to end up trying to pray his way through life and fail to understand why it's not working.
And for fuck's sake, I'm with you on "Absitnence-Only" being a failure. Hell I remember my Sex-Ed, it wasn't Absistence only, they told us about condoms and stuff... It's just they kept using so many awkward euphemisms and beating around the bush, that when it was done I thought sex was when a guy peed in a girl's butt.
Thank God porn exists, so I was able to figure out the real story.
And for fuck’s sake, I’m with you on “Absitnence-Only” being a failure. Hell I remember my Sex-Ed, it wasn’t Absistence only, they told us about condoms and stuff… It’s just they kept using so many awkward euphemisms and beating around the bush, that when it was done I thought sex was when a guy peed in a girl’s butt.
I find it deeply disturbing that the states with the highest level of teen pregnancies and STDs happens in the same states that do abstinence-only education. Additionally, education and free and easy access to condoms is the single best way to reduce abortions.
A big reason why he flunked public school is he’d refuse any assignment that acknowledged the big bang, existence of dinosaurs, existence of evolution, or the idea that the Earth is older than 6000 years.
Like... you could have a lot of fun with that. Chickens are dinosaurs (avians are technically extant theropoda dinosaurs.)
The problem with faith and believers in general. Be they believers in psychics, ghosts, aliens, Jesus, Xenu, etc.
Is that they have already decided what they want to be true and no evidence can convince them otherwise. Anyone who deals in the evidence must be either close-minded or naive at best or outright lying at worst.
Which is why scientists are either "Stuck believing the religion of Darwin and Scientism" or "On the payroll of big academia, silencing the truth about PSI and Nephilim!"
It doesn't matter that the evidence says comprehensive sex education prevents abortions and STDs. The "truth" is that safe sex is evil and cannot be taught without encouraging children to have it, because the truth was invented by "liberal pedophiles" who want to turn your children trans.
This is why skeptics beat the believers everytime. Skeptics follow the evidence and believers do not.
It's why MAGA will never turn on Trump, what Trump says is the "truth", evidence was created by the Deep State.
It doesn't matter that Trump is in the epstein files because Trump says he isn't.
It doesn't matter that Evolution is one of the most successful theories in biology, the pastor says it's a "theory in crisis"
A common lie from believers is the idea that the institutions are "slowly turning to" whatever their idea is.
As a former New Age I used to hear that Academia was slowly giving up on Materialism.. that a few stubborn higher ups were just too attached to their pet hypotheses. I didn't realize it was a scam till I realized creationists were told that "Real Scientists" find Evolution a little sus.
Who decides who is an idiot? Those laws don't work when you have the worst people in the country in charge, and the wrong people appointed by them up and down the line.
Well, it's impossible to ban natural clouds but planes could avoid making contrails by just not flying in the zone where their exhaust would cause them. Source: I was a weatherman in the Air Force and would tell military pilots where to fly to not have a shiny line pointing to their exact location if such information could be a concern.
So I’m curious now… what conditions cause the contrails? Certain temps, humidity, wind speed? I would think very humid cold air but that’s just a guess.
In answer to your question: yes. Humid cold pure air. By pure, I mean no contaminates until the hyrdrocarbons from the jet fuel are emitted into that pure, moist air. To form a droplet, a nucleus is needed. The hydrocarbons of the jet engine exhaust provide that nuclueus.
Google calculated that planes could avoid the air conditions that cause vapor trails, but it would cost around 2% extra fuel. That means it's a hard no from any airline.
There are many, many layers of stupid stacked here, but at the same time, this bill is quite sweeping and potentially dangerous. You might be opposed to the idea of manipulating atmospheric composition to fight climate change and it's certainly not something we might want to just go ahead and do, but it is a possibility that's worth exploring and ultimately might become a necessity. This bill kills any attempt to even experiment with this kind of technology, at least in the affected legislature.
Geo engineering is absolutely not something we want to look into. As if we could forsee the consequences, as if any one country has the right to decide to affect the entire world's weather, and as if we could trust the companies that are doing this.
They have a meeting every year in Switzerland, where they huddle up and go over their plans, coordinate on selling to governments, pr, all that. Epstein pal and childfucker Bill Gates is one of them. He is as convinced in the righteousness of pumping masses of sulphur dioxide in the upper atmosphere as he is of making roundup ready proprietary strains of crops to be able to use higher amounts of herbicides that systematically poison us, and every form of life, in entire watersheds. He invested in Monsanto, with his foundation at that, such a charitable contribution to society!
So the streaked Behind airplanes are basically clouds.
It’s condensation from the engine freezing around soot in the exhaust*.
They’re also talking about seeding rain clouds by dispersing silver iodide, potassium iodide or just dry ice.
Banning cloud seeding makes sense, since it affects everyone down stream, and that gets complicated. But the arrival blames, for example, the mystic camp flood on cloud seeding/chem trails and goes on to describe contrails as being cloud seeding- which isn’t a thing.
They also link increased aluminum, which isn’t used in cloud seeding, to problems with bees.
*it could also be, in certain situations, from air that’s fairly humid and right at a temperature/ pressure where the wing passing through it causes the ambient humidity to condense out into clouds, but that’s less common.
Their influencers and their tribes are in league with the groups responsible for those problems and can't be honest so they have to find fake culprits. That said they will support banning geo engineering to cool the earth which is a real top level law of unintended consequences issue, as they already have in Georgia I believe, so we can work with them on this.
HB25 provides a means for enforcement of the law under the Alabama Department of Environmental Management. The Department would be required to establish a publicly available email address and online form for the reporting of violations. residents could also report what they believe to be violations by telephone or mail.
I wonder what the job of an ADEM Chemtrail Investigator will be like
Seems to me that this reporting system is ripe for comical levels of exploitation and spam. Which should absolutely be encouraged. We can’t be too careful about the scourge of dihydrogen monoxide.
Sounds like a candidate for the easiest job in the world. “My job is to prevent something that doesn’t exist.” Okay. Sounds like a perfect nepotism gig for someone’s idiot relative.
“But the skies of today are not the skies of my youth,” Butler said.
No shit. There are more jets and more airports than there were in your youth.
The chemtrails aren't a thing, but in the legislators small mind, who would be behind them? Are they actually thinking that there's some private individual that is spending billions building a secret massive network of bribed pilots and bribed mechanics that are spraying such chemicals to change the weather or influence the people in some ways?
Are they actually thinking that there’s some private individual that is spending billions building a secret massive network of bribed pilots and bribed mechanics that are spraying such chemicals to change the weather or influence the people in some ways?
I mean, that’s basically what the petrochemical industry has done.
Not to influence people chemically, but to keep business up.
These are good laws if they are written broadly enough to forbid geo engineering. I don't care how the right gets there, it's beyond arrogant and reckless to allow billionaires, to pay them, to spray masses of sulpur dioxide into the upper atmosphere to block out the sun in a mr. burns esque intervention.
They don't have the right to affect everyone's weather, we don't know the consequences of such an action, and the people running these companies are fundamentally dishonest and have been hotboxing with their yes men in enclosed spaces smelling their own farts for so long they don't even know what's true. Looking at you Gates, fuck any children lately?
While some of the weather manipulation theories on the right are a bit out there, not that the government hasn't experimented with weather manipulation, it's usually just too much for them to do as in the case with making hurricanes worse heating up the ocean. Anyway, instead of mocking them, when they are on to a kernal of truth, better to join with them and prevent real harms being perpetrated. Remember, Gates, noted epstein pal and childfucker will use influence agents to associate those opposed to his geo engineering schemes of blotting out the sun from the upper atmosphere, convinced he has foreseen all the consequences from such a thing, with chemtrail cranks and other such conspiracies spread by cynical rw influencers.
But the geo engineering is very real, and they are doing test projects as we speak, and facing worldwide backlash whereever they do.
Oh, it's unwise to condemn people in the Epstein files? Isn't that convenient? Let's not jump to conclusions, despite being absolutely certain they are having sex with underage girls, and know about abuses, and being blackmailed with that information to support the worst people in the world.
You expect to have any credibility after that opinion?
And you aren't altogether correct either, Georgia I think it was passed a law that makes weather manipulation illegal, that includes geo engineering even as most of their support was from the chemtrails. As have other laws.
If I didn't know any better, and I don't, I'd suspect your motivations here.
With all the conspiracy theories proven true lately I Am perfectly ready to believe that the chemtrails are some evil plot, but can we at least like test them first?
Basic physics is not a conspiracy. Jfc hot air into cold air condenses into a cloud just like what happens when breathing out in cold weather.
I kind of get those in places that are always warm not getting it but I've had to explain it so many times to people who grow up in places where ice and snow are normal in winter
Ok, so the trails would happen anyway that doesn't mean they aren't also carrying chemicals.
look, I don't believe it all I'm saying is it's not insane and with the Epstein files and panama papers and Snowden leaks, I'm now of the opinion Evil super villain plots are real and happen all the time.
The chemicals could easily be mixed in with the fuel All it would require is a doped fule source maby a couple chemists and a few laborers and the couple of oil oligarchs / governments who did it, the world is flooded with bad chemicals they could have came from the plains and nobody would know the difference.
Who's to say it doesn't help the fuel? Lead did in leaded gasoline, there's a cover up that was real, far bigger and more deadly than chemtrails.
Once again, I don't believe it but it's not crazy.
163 Comments
0x0f@piefed.social · 160 pts · 177d
Should be easy, considering they don't exist to begin with.
Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world · 88 pts · 177d
Shush. We're this close to getting them to tax contrails, which would effectively be a tax on jet fuel.
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 177d
No, you can fly to avoid the creation of contrails. Ironically, would actually be a boon for the environment, since contrail clouds are massive greenhouse generators https://youtube.com/shorts/qBPwloCdRKw
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 15 pts · 177d
I thought they were just condensation?
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 177d
Yes, but the phenomenon occurs at specific altitudes, so you just fly slightly higher or lower.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 176d
cynar@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 175d
They are, but clouds disproportionately reflect IR. Basically the energy comes in as a mix of high, medium and low energy light. The earth re-radiates as low energy IR. Clouds trap this keeping the warmth (and energy) in.
Clouds and CO2 act in a similar way.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 175d
I see. Thanks for the clarification
ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip · -2 pts · 177d
Gonna call BS on that short. Clouds cool the atmosphere because they reflect incoming visible light. Clouds also absorb infrared light, causing a greenhouse effect, but they also do that when they're not condensed into clouds. Their infrared absorption depends primarily on their composition, which doesn't change. Contrails are basically equivalent to cloud seeding, which is a method of cooling the atmosphere by increasing cloud cover.
ylph@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 177d
Current scientific consensus is that contrails are a net contributor to warming (they trap more heat from escaping the atmosphere than they prevent from entering overall) - but it's a complex phenomena that's difficult to model, so studies vary a lot in estimating the magnitude of this effect - from being a fraction of airplane CO2 emissions, to being several time that.
ClassyHatter@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 177d
There are both cooling and warming contrails.
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 177d
This isn't someone guessing, man. He's citing research on the topic.
Essentially, these clouds are 50% opacity to visible light, but nearly 100% in infrared. So they block some incoming light, but reflect almost all infrared from the surface. It's a net warming effect at these altitudes.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 176d
Oh….. dear.
Red_October@piefed.world · 22 pts · 177d
until they decide enforcement means no contrails at all and suddenly they've found a new and exciting way to economically ruin the country.
DrakeAlbrecht@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 177d
Contrails contribute to global warming and are completely avoidable.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 177d
Contrails are mostly water vapour that's condensed due to the hot exhaust of airplane engines.
They are certainly not completely avoidable, they are likely inescapable without sacrificing significant fuel efficiencies (eg: all methods stealth fighters use to suppress or mask their exhaust heat signature).. which would negate any benefits to global warming.
P. s. I'm not going to watch a YouTube video that could be a few paragraphs of textual explanation, because it'll no doubt be eight times longer than it needs to be for the benefit of more ad money or promotion in the almighty algorithm.
tomi000@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 177d
Pretty sad that your comment gets so much attention while dismissing a huge breakthrough in research.
4am@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 177d
Maybe we shouldn’t have to SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON to have a discussion on the internet, or sit through an ad read for Brilliant or whatever
tomi000@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 177d
And maybe people dismiss comments that dont get liked and assume the answer that gets liked is "more correct". Yes I wish it would work without the likes systemy but in reality 90% of the internet is AI slop and misinformation.
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 177d
In his defense, the comment didn't say shit about breakthrough research, it said "watch this".
Say what you want to say and people won't dismiss it. Link to something random and who knows.
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 177d
scarabic@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 176d
Do we seriously have to listen to people air their gripes about internet video anytime a link is shared? Jesus Christ.
XTL@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 176d
If YouTube links were banned, we wouldn't.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 177d
Its not a huge breakthrough in research, mate - its a feasibility study. Its claims are promising, but until its tested in the real world it's just interesting, not a breakthrough.
Upvotes don't mean much, they don't change the ranking of comments like on worse social media like Facebook or Reddit. Don't worry about them. I've seen very useful and valuable comments downvoted to heck and vice-versa.
tomi000@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 177d
Its been tested by now, Ive looked into it a little. Seems like 90% of the time contrails form inside clouds and there is no benefit in avoiding them there. So simply avoiding contrails altogether is not recommended, but avoiding the ones forming in a clear sky would be pretty easy and extremely efficient warming-wise.
Upvotes matter in the sense that comments with negative upvotes get dismissed more easily without thinking about them. Less people would watch a video from a comment with -5 votes than one with +100.
VibeSurgeon@piefed.social · 1 pts · 177d
The linked one is a short video with a duration of 02:37. There's no padding in this one. Naturally, you can't actually get all of the nuances of the full-duration video, which also can't cover the full nuances of the study itself that it's based on (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/2634-4505/ad310c).
Pop science videos making studies accessible to the general public are good, actually. I recommend that you stop being dismissive of them. Had you actually put in the time, you wouldn't have posted things that are in direct contradiction with the latest science on the subject, spreading misinformation in the process.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 177d
I've got no interest in watching even 2.5 minute YouTube videos when I can read the text of the same content in 45 seconds. Instructional videos can be great and valuable, but that's not what we're talking about here. There are a wealth of crap pop science videos on YouTube that misrepresent studies.
The study is interesting, but it's a feasibility study data utilizing a theoretical models - there are a lot of assumptions here. If they or other researchers go on to perform trials using their proposed flight adjustments to the autopilot software and validate it works, great! Until then, it's very far from settled science. Here is another recent study that proposes the main problem is incompletely-burned fuel which causes soot particles that sustain the contrails in the atmosphere for much longer than contrails from low-soot contrails, which quickly diaperse. This is an emerging field of study with few published studies and varying ideas on how to resolve issues.
Maybe if people want to share emerging scientific information that's important to them on a written forum they should put in the time to look to more valuable text sources, instead of dropping YouTube links with overconfident assertions that will put off people from watching them, eg, "contrails are completely avoidable".
scarabic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 176d
You have remarkable audacity for continuing to argue the point while also boasting about how you’ll ignore any information that isn’t spoon fed to you in your format of choice. Sooner or later, you’re going to miss something that way and make an ass of yourself, if that didn’t already just happen in front of our eyes.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 176d
God forbid I actually read sources, and prefer reading to taking heads on a video platform that is designed to waste people's time in endless content crawls.
You call me audacious yet here you are stepping into a discussion to try your best to belittle and chastise an internet stranger with a different opinion.
rrrurboatlibad@lemdro.id · 0 pts · 177d
Well said
scarabic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 176d
It’s a 2:35 short , btw. Quite dense and to the point. And one of the points is that you’re wrong about it not offsetting the extra fuel to avoid contrail zones.
ClassyHatter@sopuli.xyz · -5 pts · 177d
That YouTube Short seems to be a valid one. It's by someone who (according to his own words) has a PhD in atmospheric physics. Basically, he says that contrails causes global warming by preventing heat from escaping from Earth, and that contrails are mostly only formed when a plane flies through a cold humid patch. By simply re-routing planes around these cold patches, the contrails could be reduced.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 177d
And routes now are generally chosen to be the most fuel-efficient, subject to regulatory constraints such as avoiding overflight of areas of high population density. So any alternate path will be longer and burn more fuel.
ClassyHatter@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 177d
According to this one study [1] that focused on Japanese airspace, 2.2% of the flights causes 80% of all contrail energy forcing (EF).
The re-routing can simply be achieved by changing the flight elevation by 2000 feet one or the other direction.
[1] Teoh, Roger et al. “Mitigating the Climate Forcing of Aircraft Contrails by Small-Scale Diversions and Technology Adoption.” Environmental science & technology vol. 54,5 (2020): 2941-2950. doi:10.1021/acs.est.9b05608
4grams@awful.systems · 4 pts · 177d
My legit question is then, is the impact on the average temperature by reducing the visible trails greater or less than the impact of adding the emissions from the extra fuel spent.
My gut tells me no, those number seem small, but small numbers often lie, and impacts to the chemical makeup of the atmosphere is an ongoing change whereas a trail of condensation is a short lived phenomenon.
This is not an argument either way, it seems like a legitimate question to me. It’s also not the question that “chemtrails” conspiracy theorists would ask.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 176d
As said in the video everyone refused to watch, it doesn’t require all new routes but occasional 1-2% course deviations or altitude changes for a minority of flights. It’s also claimed that contrails have far, far more warming effect than any additional carbon that might be emitted by this. But hey, he posted it in a video so FUCK HIM, RITE?
rain_worl@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 166d
rite!
Chozo@fedia.io · 8 pts · 177d
Wouldn't rerouting be more fuel-intensive in most scenarios, though? I feel like burning more fuel to make fewer clouds isn't the right play.
VibeSurgeon@piefed.social · 3 pts · 177d
It would require a slight increase in fuel consumption, traded off with a large decrease in heating caused by the water vapour.
Seriously, you should watch the video, it covers all of this stuff.
ClassyHatter@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 177d
According to him, the contrails have very potent effect on global warming. Apparently, contrails from just one year's flights has almost the same effect as all the CO2 emitted by all flights ever. Re-routing extends the flight by only so much, so the added CO2 emission has negligible effect.
bufalo1973@piefed.social · 3 pts · 177d
Good luck with the Florida and California flights.
evidences@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 177d
I'm not saying this is wrong because I don't know shit but when ships crossing the Atlantic were forced to switch to low sulfur fuel a few years ago the North Atlantic rose in temp a few degrees. Turned out the sulfur in the exhaust was causes clouds to form in the atmosphere and was shading the ocean and masking global warming in that region. Pretty much the opposite effect of what you're saying this dude is claiming.
ClassyHatter@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 177d
Speaking with my limited knowledge, there apparently are cooling contrails and warming contrails, but the warming ones are more common. I don't know why or when the contrails are cooling or warming.
tomi000@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 177d
This is a very important piece of info that people who care about reducing flight emissions should know.
Siethron@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 177d
Depends on your definition of "chemical". Technically all trails are chem trails, including hiking trails.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 177d
And snail trails.
Gumbyyy@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 177d
And happy trails.
XTL@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 176d
And entrails.
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 5 pts · 177d
I can think of light trails that aren't chemical in nature
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 177d
Tell that to Iran's nuclear weapons program.
ramenshaman@lemmy.world · 72 pts · 177d
How are we this stupid?
Sunflier@lemmy.world · 58 pts · 177d
Republicans are in control
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 177d
XTL@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 176d
Those are the same picture.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 176d
IronBird@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 177d
3-4 decades of purposefully undermining public education
Omgpwnies@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 177d
More like 5-7 decades.. "anti-nerd" culture has been popular since about the 50's
ameancow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 176d
Zetta@mander.xyz · 11 pts · 177d
A large portion of people are stupid, it's sad
uienia@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 177d
Don't be so harsh on yourself. You are most definitely not as stupid as US Republicans.
village604@adultswim.fan · 6 pts · 177d
It's Alabama, so inbreeding.
OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 176d
Why do you say “we?” I had no part in this bill, and you probably didn’t either.
rimu@piefed.social · 64 pts · 177d
How do you think the conspiracy nuts will react if this bill becomes law and then there are just as many contrails in the sky as before?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 177d
Depends. How gay are the frogs?
Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 177d
It would be pretty funny if that makes those people snap and they end up being the ones to drag Trump and his cronies into the street and tear him apart like zombies.
Though they’d likely all just be shot to death while trying, which I guess maybe win-win?
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 177d
what and shoot his very fine voters?
popekingjoe@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 177d
I mean... He's said it himself. He doesn't really need them anymore.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 177d
oh yeah. They're totally getting shot.
leopards and faces and stuffs.
Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 177d
Well a key trait of all right wingers is stabbing each other in the back when it benefits themselves directly so they’d just claim they were woke trans terrorists after they shot the lot of them.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 177d
sorry. maybe should have but a /s tag on that.
Trump would totally have them shot if he felt he'd thought he'd make a quick buck.
goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org · 5 pts · 176d
Considering how stupid those who want this are, they'll just go oh see, they stopped doing chemicals in the trails now!. Or 50/50 chance want all jet planes banned 🤷
Accurate representation of those wanting this
rimu@piefed.social · 3 pts · 176d
Sadly they'll just think it's the federal govt doing the spraying that's why they ignore state laws.
BurgerBaron@piefed.social · 1 pts · 175d
Legality never stopped the USA from spraying radioactive mist (zinc cadmium sulfide) over Medicine Hat, Alberta and a couple other smaller towns not just Canada, but their own citizens too during the Cold War as a funny little experiment to see how radioactive fallout from nukes would move around the environment. Higher than average local birth defects are the legacy of that, which almost everyone is ignorant of.
But yeah the conspiracy that it's widespread and regular behaviour is so fucking goofy.
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today · 49 pts · 177d
We live in the stupidest timeline.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 177d
Hell yeah, brother. People have elevated the presumed sanctity of their beliefs, no matter how stupid, to be the most sacred of liberties. Even over life and health.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 176d
nah, Sheila Jackson Lee, Democrat, member of the Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics of the House, asked if the Mars rover took a pic of the flag planted by Neil Armstrong.
Fucking idiots are bipartisan. Heart warming.
ebolapie@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 176d
Not making me feel better about the timeline
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works · 48 pts · 177d
It sounds like they're mixing "chemtrails" and "cloud seeding". And they don't understand either...
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz · 14 pts · 177d
How dare you read the article!
That is by far one of the stupidest public consultations I've read about.
ClownStatue@piefed.social · 8 pts · 177d
One of the stupidest public consultations you’ve read about so far.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 177d
Eh. They’re also blaming flooding on cloud seeding based on bad anecdotes.
The camp mystic flood, that was a massive storm that dumped shitoads of rain in an area known to prone to flash flooding, all because a conservative commentator in ala-fucking-bama happened to be near camp mystic in Texas to see them seeding clouds… just before the flood started
Probably, I suspect, because they don’t want to admit that GOP policies in Texas are fucking people over. Like the lack of being connected to either national power grid, or in the case of camp mystic, a dore lacking of storm/flood management infrastructure. (Including warning systems.)
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 177d
What the fuck!
I just read the article, and I think it's completely misrepresenting the bill! From what I can see, the article is just inventing this link to the chemtrails conspiracy.
Does this bill ever mention the word "chemtrails" or "contrails", at all?
From what I can tell, the bill is completely talking about cloud seeding, which is definitely its own thing. Cloud seeding is fraught enough, it's a relatively complicated issue with very serious environmental impacts, it does not need to be mixed up chemtrails which are a bullshit conspiracy theory (the opposite of a serious issue).
Hey Alabama Political Reporter go find your journalistic integrity, I think you dropped it somewhere.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 177d
Alabama State House. Not the U.S. House.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 176d
Professorozone@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 176d
Should be easy for the airlines to comply with, since they don't leave chemtrails, they leave contrails.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 176d
I don't believe you. Begin firing on my signal.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 176d
toynbee@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 176d
That sounds like something someone with a degree in ozone would say!
Onsotumenh@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 175d
You know what else leaves contrails? Politicians!
kreskin@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 176d
So we banned ...water vapor. Well done, house committee.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 176d
No. A chemical compound, a substance, or an apparatus into the atmosphere within or above this state for the purpose of affecting the weather, including temperature, climate, and intensity of sunlight.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 176d
so.. we banned clouds!
Erro@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 176d
Di hydrogen monoxide fits the definition of a chemical...
ThomasWilliams@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 175d
No, they are banning water vapour. Read the article.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 175d
No, you read the article. Here's the direct quote
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 176d
ICE is coming for your tea kettles!
SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 177d
Red State voters living in abject poverty: "Republicans is gittin important stuff done!"
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 176d
10 Years After SCOTUS Gutted Voting Rights Act, Alabama Turnout Gap Is Worse
lechekaflan@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 176d
Whoopee. Now the fucking fringers have become the mainstream.
RamRabbit@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 176d
It bans cloud seeding and geoengineering. Passing this off as a 'ban on chemtrails' is deliberately dishonest.
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net · 18 pts · 176d
So they're going after the companies polluting the planet right... Right?
Zangoose@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 176d
Presumably companies would be able to argue they aren't pushing out pollutants with the intention to change the climate
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 175d
Unfortunately "the purpose of a system is what it does" doesn't count as a valid argument when the ones in charge of the system have more money than the courts :/
ThomasWilliams@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 175d
No it isn't.
They claim the recent floods were because of chemtrails from planes seeding in the sky (those trails of water vapour you see behind planes, ), based on aluminium found on the ground (cloud seeding is done with silver iodide btw and is incredibly expensive).
Stop trying to downplay it.
COASTER1921@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 176d
The sad thing is that there is a huge amount that could be done for global warming with some basic legislation around contrails. Clouds that high in the atmosphere are quite bad in terms of greenhouse effect. By avoiding flying through areas that they'd be generated there's a surprisingly large environmental benefit for minimal cost. A good explainer: https://youtu.be/QoOVqQ5sa08
Pirat@lemmy.org · 15 pts · 176d
I never thought it about as a green house thing before though I do remember reading an article many years ago that contrails do contribute when they spread out into cirrostratus clouds.
I was a meteorologist in the Air Force and did make forecasts telling pilots at what levels to fly to avoid making contrails since having a long silver line pointing to your exact location makes sneak attacks a little difficult. Perhaps commercial airlines should make use of that information. It's usually just a few thousand foot difference. Fly a little higher or lower and problem solved.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 177d
The House needs a bill to prevent idiots from entering politics.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 177d
We, uh, could just fund secular public education.
And yeah, I’m kinda pissed I have to add “secular” to that.
QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 177d
I used to be all for religion as a way to give people's lives meaning, then I realized that religion is just science denial.
God is dead, he died when humans started measuring shit, it's time to stop parading around his corpse.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 177d
I don’t disagree, really.
But just a friendly reminder that secular and atheist are two different things.
Secularism is just a separation of religious affairs and government/state/public affairs.
All I’m saying by adding secular to public schools is that Christian charter schools shouldn’t be funded with public funds; and that creationism/intelligent design/other things of that sort should be key out of the classroom. (And abstinence-only shouldn’t be taught in sex ed for fucks sake.)
QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 177d
Indeed, we need to go with what the evidence says works.
These "Voucher Programs" for Christian Schools is a huge problem. I have a cousin who flunked out of public school and is now in a Christian Private School. His overly religious father and Church have completely ruined the boy's perception of reality.
A big reason why he flunked public school is he'd refuse any assignment that acknowledged the big bang, existence of dinosaurs, existence of evolution, or the idea that the Earth is older than 6000 years.
So Science was a big no.
I'm geniunely worried the kid is going to end up trying to pray his way through life and fail to understand why it's not working.
And for fuck's sake, I'm with you on "Absitnence-Only" being a failure. Hell I remember my Sex-Ed, it wasn't Absistence only, they told us about condoms and stuff... It's just they kept using so many awkward euphemisms and beating around the bush, that when it was done I thought sex was when a guy peed in a girl's butt.
Thank God porn exists, so I was able to figure out the real story.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 177d
I find it deeply disturbing that the states with the highest level of teen pregnancies and STDs happens in the same states that do abstinence-only education. Additionally, education and free and easy access to condoms is the single best way to reduce abortions.
Like... you could have a lot of fun with that. Chickens are dinosaurs (avians are technically extant theropoda dinosaurs.)
QueenHawlSera@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 176d
The problem with faith and believers in general. Be they believers in psychics, ghosts, aliens, Jesus, Xenu, etc.
Is that they have already decided what they want to be true and no evidence can convince them otherwise. Anyone who deals in the evidence must be either close-minded or naive at best or outright lying at worst.
Which is why scientists are either "Stuck believing the religion of Darwin and Scientism" or "On the payroll of big academia, silencing the truth about PSI and Nephilim!"
It doesn't matter that the evidence says comprehensive sex education prevents abortions and STDs. The "truth" is that safe sex is evil and cannot be taught without encouraging children to have it, because the truth was invented by "liberal pedophiles" who want to turn your children trans.
This is why skeptics beat the believers everytime. Skeptics follow the evidence and believers do not.
It's why MAGA will never turn on Trump, what Trump says is the "truth", evidence was created by the Deep State.
It doesn't matter that Trump is in the epstein files because Trump says he isn't.
It doesn't matter that Evolution is one of the most successful theories in biology, the pastor says it's a "theory in crisis"
A common lie from believers is the idea that the institutions are "slowly turning to" whatever their idea is.
As a former New Age I used to hear that Academia was slowly giving up on Materialism.. that a few stubborn higher ups were just too attached to their pet hypotheses. I didn't realize it was a scam till I realized creationists were told that "Real Scientists" find Evolution a little sus.
hector@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 177d
Who decides who is an idiot? Those laws don't work when you have the worst people in the country in charge, and the wrong people appointed by them up and down the line.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 18 pts · 176d
Please pass this bill, that'd be so hilarious, the US inadvertently closing it's airspace semi permanently because they're such dumbasses
carpelbridgesyndrome@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 176d
Alabama not the US house. That headline needs a lot of context
billwashere@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 177d
So clouds are illegal?
Pirat@lemmy.org · 4 pts · 176d
Well, it's impossible to ban natural clouds but planes could avoid making contrails by just not flying in the zone where their exhaust would cause them. Source: I was a weatherman in the Air Force and would tell military pilots where to fly to not have a shiny line pointing to their exact location if such information could be a concern.
billwashere@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 176d
Well that could be problematic.
So I’m curious now… what conditions cause the contrails? Certain temps, humidity, wind speed? I would think very humid cold air but that’s just a guess.
Pirat@lemmy.org · 5 pts · 176d
In answer to your question: yes. Humid cold pure air. By pure, I mean no contaminates until the hyrdrocarbons from the jet fuel are emitted into that pure, moist air. To form a droplet, a nucleus is needed. The hydrocarbons of the jet engine exhaust provide that nuclueus.
COASTER1921@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 176d
BigTrout75@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 177d
Oh, I get get it. The crazy weather that were experiencing is not global warming, it's chemtrails. And caused by the government. 🙃
pleaseletmein@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 177d
No more air travel, I guess?
UpperBroccoli@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 177d
Hot air baloons are still allowed. Perfectly good option if you do not care too much where you end up or how far you will go.
IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.wtf · 3 pts · 177d
At this point, yeah ... fuck it, I'm in.
I'll bring snacks.
RobotToaster@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 176d
Dirigibles should be okay too.
kurmudgeon@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 176d
This is what the decline in education and humility gets you in America.
ClownStatue@piefed.social · 14 pts · 177d
State law. Kind of. It’s Alabama, so…
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 12 pts · 177d
They should simply require the Jewish Space Laser zap any chemtrails.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 175d
Republicans will do literally anything to avoid actually governing.
SendMePhotos@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 177d
zephiriz@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 176d
Come on guys you all know."Atheist are using unicorn's to spread chemtrails to kill off all the Angeles in heaven."
nomecks@lemmy.wtf · 11 pts · 177d
Google calculated that planes could avoid the air conditions that cause vapor trails, but it would cost around 2% extra fuel. That means it's a hard no from any airline.
bss03@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 176d
Two airlines are pursuing lower-contrail-generation routes, currently. The fuel cost is much lower than you claim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoOVqQ5sa08
nomecks@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 176d
Glad to hear it!
cronenthal@discuss.tchncs.de · 7 pts · 177d
There are many, many layers of stupid stacked here, but at the same time, this bill is quite sweeping and potentially dangerous. You might be opposed to the idea of manipulating atmospheric composition to fight climate change and it's certainly not something we might want to just go ahead and do, but it is a possibility that's worth exploring and ultimately might become a necessity. This bill kills any attempt to even experiment with this kind of technology, at least in the affected legislature.
hector@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 177d
Geo engineering is absolutely not something we want to look into. As if we could forsee the consequences, as if any one country has the right to decide to affect the entire world's weather, and as if we could trust the companies that are doing this.
They have a meeting every year in Switzerland, where they huddle up and go over their plans, coordinate on selling to governments, pr, all that. Epstein pal and childfucker Bill Gates is one of them. He is as convinced in the righteousness of pumping masses of sulphur dioxide in the upper atmosphere as he is of making roundup ready proprietary strains of crops to be able to use higher amounts of herbicides that systematically poison us, and every form of life, in entire watersheds. He invested in Monsanto, with his foundation at that, such a charitable contribution to society!
osanna@thebrainbin.org · 6 pts · 177d
aren't "chemtrails" clouds? they're banning clouds, right?
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 177d
So the streaked Behind airplanes are basically clouds.
It’s condensation from the engine freezing around soot in the exhaust*.
They’re also talking about seeding rain clouds by dispersing silver iodide, potassium iodide or just dry ice.
Banning cloud seeding makes sense, since it affects everyone down stream, and that gets complicated. But the arrival blames, for example, the mystic camp flood on cloud seeding/chem trails and goes on to describe contrails as being cloud seeding- which isn’t a thing.
They also link increased aluminum, which isn’t used in cloud seeding, to problems with bees.
*it could also be, in certain situations, from air that’s fairly humid and right at a temperature/ pressure where the wing passing through it causes the ambient humidity to condense out into clouds, but that’s less common.
hector@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 177d
Their influencers and their tribes are in league with the groups responsible for those problems and can't be honest so they have to find fake culprits. That said they will support banning geo engineering to cool the earth which is a real top level law of unintended consequences issue, as they already have in Georgia I believe, so we can work with them on this.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 6 pts · 177d
this is just to much on the nose with the old man yells at clouds.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 177d
I wonder what the job of an ADEM Chemtrail Investigator will be like
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 177d
Seems to me that this reporting system is ripe for comical levels of exploitation and spam. Which should absolutely be encouraged. We can’t be too careful about the scourge of dihydrogen monoxide.
magnetosphere@fedia.io · 4 pts · 177d
Sounds like a candidate for the easiest job in the world. “My job is to prevent something that doesn’t exist.” Okay. Sounds like a perfect nepotism gig for someone’s idiot relative.
No shit. There are more jets and more airports than there were in your youth.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 176d
Why ban them? What's in them?
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 176d
cHeMiCaLss5ss!
Lemminary@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 176d
And the 5Gs
ameancow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 176d
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 176d
A chemical compound or a substance, for the purpose of affecting the weather, including temperature, climate, and intensity of sunlight.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 176d
ice crystals. They can give you brain freeze.
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 177d
Anything but admit that their #1 (and #2 and #3) favorite wizard either wanted a bunch of kids dead or was powerless to prevent it.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 176d
The chemtrails aren't a thing, but in the legislators small mind, who would be behind them? Are they actually thinking that there's some private individual that is spending billions building a secret massive network of bribed pilots and bribed mechanics that are spraying such chemicals to change the weather or influence the people in some ways?
ameancow@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 176d
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 176d
I mean, that’s basically what the petrochemical industry has done.
Not to influence people chemically, but to keep business up.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 175d
They hated him, because he spoke the truth
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 176d
Crop dusting is common.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 177d
We're getting played
hector@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 177d
These are good laws if they are written broadly enough to forbid geo engineering. I don't care how the right gets there, it's beyond arrogant and reckless to allow billionaires, to pay them, to spray masses of sulpur dioxide into the upper atmosphere to block out the sun in a mr. burns esque intervention.
They don't have the right to affect everyone's weather, we don't know the consequences of such an action, and the people running these companies are fundamentally dishonest and have been hotboxing with their yes men in enclosed spaces smelling their own farts for so long they don't even know what's true. Looking at you Gates, fuck any children lately?
While some of the weather manipulation theories on the right are a bit out there, not that the government hasn't experimented with weather manipulation, it's usually just too much for them to do as in the case with making hurricanes worse heating up the ocean. Anyway, instead of mocking them, when they are on to a kernal of truth, better to join with them and prevent real harms being perpetrated. Remember, Gates, noted epstein pal and childfucker will use influence agents to associate those opposed to his geo engineering schemes of blotting out the sun from the upper atmosphere, convinced he has foreseen all the consequences from such a thing, with chemtrail cranks and other such conspiracies spread by cynical rw influencers.
But the geo engineering is very real, and they are doing test projects as we speak, and facing worldwide backlash whereever they do.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 177d
Bad laws written by corrupt, moronic liars are never a good idea.
I agree that geoengineering is a dangerous con, but this law doesn't address that problem.
And it's also unwise to leap to conclusions about people in the Epstein files besides Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Even shitty people like Gates.
hector@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 177d
Oh, it's unwise to condemn people in the Epstein files? Isn't that convenient? Let's not jump to conclusions, despite being absolutely certain they are having sex with underage girls, and know about abuses, and being blackmailed with that information to support the worst people in the world.
You expect to have any credibility after that opinion?
And you aren't altogether correct either, Georgia I think it was passed a law that makes weather manipulation illegal, that includes geo engineering even as most of their support was from the chemtrails. As have other laws.
If I didn't know any better, and I don't, I'd suspect your motivations here.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 177d
What?!? So how would the government control the sheeple then eh? What's next, the moon projection will be turned off? Lizard people life matters!
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 176d
With all the conspiracy theories proven true lately I Am perfectly ready to believe that the chemtrails are some evil plot, but can we at least like test them first?
goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 176d
Basic physics is not a conspiracy. Jfc hot air into cold air condenses into a cloud just like what happens when breathing out in cold weather.
I kind of get those in places that are always warm not getting it but I've had to explain it so many times to people who grow up in places where ice and snow are normal in winter
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 176d
Ok, so the trails would happen anyway that doesn't mean they aren't also carrying chemicals.
look, I don't believe it all I'm saying is it's not insane and with the Epstein files and panama papers and Snowden leaks, I'm now of the opinion Evil super villain plots are real and happen all the time.
goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 176d
Planes don't carry any extra weight as that kills range and fuel efficiency. So no they wouldn't be carrying anything unnecessary
But it's not, it's more level of the earth is flat or we didn't land on the moon
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 176d
The chemicals could easily be mixed in with the fuel All it would require is a doped fule source maby a couple chemists and a few laborers and the couple of oil oligarchs / governments who did it, the world is flooded with bad chemicals they could have came from the plains and nobody would know the difference.
Who's to say it doesn't help the fuel? Lead did in leaded gasoline, there's a cover up that was real, far bigger and more deadly than chemtrails.
Once again, I don't believe it but it's not crazy.