I saw some posts about american wanting to move to Europe; so just before you guys make the move, double-triple check insurances/banks, because literally every time I (not american) do smth financially related in France, they ask me if I am american? If yes, they won't even open accounts/ give me insurance etc.. Sounds discriminatory but apperently because legal
I dont know if that expands to any other field
EDIT: lol i am now wondering what are people are downvoting for? You dont like that fact, so you downvote whoever told you that fact? Some reactions are hilarious
101 Comments
th3dogcow@lemmy.world · 147 pts · 159d
Financial institutions in Japan ask the same thing. It is because Americans have to pay tax to American even when they don’t live in America. It just means there is more paperwork apparently.
tetris11@feddit.uk · 43 pts · 159d
Yup, I had no idea how fucked you guys were with the taxes thing until I learned you had to declare it twice if living abroad
th3dogcow@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 159d
Luckily I’m not one of those guys haha
tetris11@feddit.uk · 14 pts · 159d
It's not that funny tbh, they're people being treated poorly by their government
myplacedk@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 158d
And yet they keep voting for anyone that likes to treat people poorly. I don't know what to think anymore.
tetris11@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 158d
That's a really hasty (hazy?) generalization of the US. The 50501 riots should tell you that a large fraction of Americans are not for this, but their heavily gerrymandered voting system shackles them to it
myplacedk@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 156d
I know all that. But even if it's not the majority, it's still s looot of people.
MissJinx@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 156d
American citzenship is the OG subscription
IncogCyberSpaceUser@piefed.social · 11 pts · 159d
That's only if you make more than 100k, just for additional information.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 159d
But they still have to report it, even if it is below.
hanke@feddit.nu · 3 pts · 158d
And those forms are no joke.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 158d
Probably the usual "US deals with foreigner" type of forms. Which threaten horrible consequences if you enter something wrong while at the same time offer only the letters a to z, digits, and a few interpunctation signs. Which means that I cannot enter my correct address in such a form. And for other people it is even worse, like people using Asian languages.
PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world · 137 pts · 159d
Google FATCA, the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.
Anyone anywhere in the world that is either US citizen, or a green card holder, or in other ways related to Murica, must pay US taxes. It's insane, but the US tax system is powerful enough to bully all other countries into compliance.
Don't get me started. 🤮
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca · 64 pts · 159d
But not to tax the rich or corporations at all.
PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 159d
They can do anything they want. That is just something they don't want to do. Again, 🤮
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 6 pts · 158d
Exactly, how about the president pay taxes first lmao
Wish the American populace were brave enough to dump their tea in the harbor like before
p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -121 pts · 159d
Citizenship isn't free. You don't get to have your cake and eat it, too.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 113 pts · 159d
Funny, because it's free everywhere else. Sounds like a bit of a shithole country.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 24 pts · 159d
Except for maybe eight countries. The US, North Korea and a few small Pacific island states, if I recall correctly.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 5 pts · 158d
Gotta love how these two countries are suddenly being used in the same sentence all the time lol
Pika@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 158d
Wait, is there actually countries out there where you don't pay taxes?
I'm guessing they must run off a very heavy business tax because the money has to come from somewhere in order for the government to be able to operate.
Or is it the gov just says "this will happen" and always has a blank check with no requirement to repay.
Don't misunderstand my comment. I think it's ridiculous for a country to expect you to pay taxes without living there. But like, taxes would be your citizenship burden
Thteven@lemmy.world · 62 pts · 159d
If you renounce your citizenship the US government still expects you to pay taxes for the next 10 fucking years. Do you think that sounds reasonable too?
theneverfox@pawb.social · 17 pts · 159d
Haven't heard that before, that's wild
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 5 pts · 158d
I'm wondering how the fuck are they even gonna know you paid them or not. If I am living in Germany, with a German employer, why the fuck are they telling the US what my wages are?
mcv@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 158d
Because otherwise none of their customers will be able to do business with the US. They would like their customers to be able to do business with the US, so their only options are to either follow reporting rules for US Persons, or avoid having US Persons as customer. It sucks, but it's the US government forcing this on everybody, and because of the economic dominance of the US, the rest of the world has no choice but to comply.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 6 pts · 158d
Ah, there's the solution.
Stop doing business with the US.
traxex@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 158d
I only see this as a win.
Sassington@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 158d
No they don't, this is why Boris Johnson gave up his American citizenship.
(https://www.ftadviser.com/content/7fdbf645-1cc6-5f78-b01b-10c9c9eff904)
grue@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 159d
This isn't about Americans' obligation to pay. It's about hassle being forced upon foreign companies that have fuck-all to do with America (except for having American expat customers), to make them help collect the taxes on the US' behalf.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 159d
It literally is.
Captain_Buddha@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 159d
Who the fuck is getting cake!? The only thing we're eating is shit from the Oligarchs.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 13 pts · 159d
In other countries, you pay taxes if you actually live there. If I move to Spain and live there for enough days per year, my taxes go to Spain, not Estonia.
The US system I believe means you get double taxed if you live and work elsewhere, although I'm not 100% sure.
mcv@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 158d
I think you can usually deduct the taxes you pay elsewhere, but you will still have to file your taxes, which is apparently a rather painful process in the US.
PapaStevesy@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 158d
I got mine for free, how much did you pay for yours?
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 158d
Wow, I've never seen a post get a whole 100 downvotes before. This is a special moment for me.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 4 pts · 158d
It's peak regime indoctrination in action.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 158d
Yeah, taxes are supposed to support services for people living in a country. Their comment is exceptionally dumb.
El_guapazo@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 158d
I got it as a baby with no money
T156@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 158d
You wouldn't download a citizenship
Glytch@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 158d
Off topic but I hate that that phrase is backwards. If you have a cake you can eat that cake or you're in the process of eating it ("having cake"). If you eat a cake you can't then have it other than having it in your belly.
I know I'm being pedantic and off topic, but you're getting downvote to hell so what's it matter?
myplacedk@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 158d
It's it "having" as in owning it? "I have a cake".
You can't eat a cake, and then still have it.
Glytch@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 158d
That's what I'm saying, yes.
username123@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 158d
Oh but the cheap labor from non-citizens should be free from basic human civil rights protections, right? /s fkn idiot, you make me ashamed to be in the same country with you
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · 90 pts · 159d
american in europe here,
this is true. it's very nearly impossible to open a bank account. There is exactly one bank in Switzerland who allows americans to open accounts, UBS. So far no banks in france have allowed me to open an account, even though I have a french residency permit. This makes it nearly impossible to take loans to buy things like houses or cars. Basically life here is impossible because being american fucking sucks.
discocactus@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 159d
Open an account at Service CU out of NH. Designed to work in Europe (IBAN, free foreign ATMs, etc). Everyone who works for the state department gets it, and afaik it's open to the public.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 159d
iban thing is nice, do you know if you can finance cars or homes? right now i have to have to drive around a beater because no european bank = no loan
Eat_Your_Paisley@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 159d
I’ve used ServiceCU for more than 20 years and yes you can buy cars and such through them
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 159d
thanks! I'm going to check them out.
discocactus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 158d
Never tried that. Worth emailing their rep probably.
PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 159d
Renounce your citizenship.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 159d
i don't have a second citizenship to fall back on, so i'd be stateless. also, i can't afford to since you have to pay all the taxes on potential income for the next 10 years or something
teft@piefed.social · 28 pts · 159d
Only people who make more than 200k/year or have more than 2 million in unrealized taxable assets have to pay an expatriation tax.
There is no paying future taxes as that’d be asinine.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 159d
TIL, i thought i read that 10 year tax thing somewhere. probably just bs i saw online and didn't look into it
njm1314@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 159d
I would absolutely talk to an embassy or at least an international tax professional before making decisions and not rely on Lemmy.
diablomnky666@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 158d
You only have to pay taxes for 10 years after expatriation if you set foot on US soil for more than 30 days during that period.
Pika@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 158d
I want to add that renouncing your citizenship also isn't a valid option for many during the stages they talked about
One of the hard requirements for renouncing your citizenship is having citizenship in another country, and that is easier said than done in many countries. Like for example, Canada, you have to be a perm resident in the country for four years and also have lived there for the past six, Mexico requires 5 years. most of the EU has 5-10 years as their resident requirement.
And that's also ignoring the cost that they require of a citizen to renounce their Citizenship. It's 2300+ USD to do if you manage to get it first try, and that can be denied still.
Once you are established somewhere else as a citizen, fully agree. But that's defo easier said than done.
nutcase2690@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 158d
Lumisal@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 158d
You have residency, but do you have an official French ID, like a police ID? In Finland at least the residency permit does not count as a valid ID and you have to get a separate one (like a driver's license or police ID) in order to for example open a bank account.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 4 pts · 158d
This is crazy to learn about. Afaik no Americans in the UK have ever had issues opening bank accounts, even students.
Drusas@fedia.io · 4 pts · 159d
That's crazy. I never had any of these issues living in Japan. Why does the EU make it so much harder than Japan does?
ArgumentativeMonotheist@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 158d
I might be wrong but it could be because America has uhh integrated itself with Japan pretty well ever since they capitulated to the Burgers in WW2.
myplacedk@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 158d
Too many people wants to live in EU, so they limit it the best way they can figure out.
Unfortunately that is not a very good way.
Incredibly better than what US is currently doing, but still not great.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 59 pts · 158d
It's not because they banned us citizens. It's because the us government is one of the few ones that wants to tax stuff that their citizens earned in other countries, so banks and similar they need to report wealth and income to the government
The checkbox isn't "if you're American we can't offer you services", when you select that, then you have an extra form to fill, that's it
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 158d
One of exactly two.
JustTesting@lemmy.hogru.ch · 3 pts · 158d
is it?
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 157d
Looks like you're right, thanks for the link! Even though most of these countries only tax non-resident citizens if specific conditions aren't met, there still appear to be more than two that do it more or less unconditionally.
JustTesting@lemmy.hogru.ch · 2 pts · 157d
Yes it's a pretty short list and with some caveats. Actually I almost didn't double check when reading your message, as "only the US and some dictatorship" (e.g. use of metric system) is usually how these things go, but I was curious and found the wiki page.
JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social · 52 pts · 159d
I hate to recommend the evil empire, but there's a very good sub on this topic called r/AmerExit. Sometimes a community is too niche to exist on the Fediverse, and one must hold one's nose and visit Reddit for certain content.
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de · 48 pts · 159d
It’s not discriminatory. They don’t have any legal obligation to serve citizens of foreign countries. Citizen of USA isn’t a protected class. When they do serve American citizens it triggers a whole lot of regulatory work, and it’s understandable they don’t want to do that unless you’re a high net worth individual (ie they make enough profit to cover that cost)
booly@sh.itjust.works · 36 pts · 159d
I mean it quite literally is discriminatory, but it's legal and justified discrimination.
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de · 12 pts · 159d
Good point.
mcv@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 158d
The rule is not just for US citizens, but for a specific category called "US Person", which is broader, and I think it includes anyone with any tie to the US. I believe having American parents, having had US citizenship even if you renounced it, or having had a greencard, also count. Though I don't know the exact rules.
The rule is way too broad, and you can't get rid of it. I've heard of people who've never set foot in the US who discovered later in life that they were US Persons, and it sucks. Their banks force them to comply because otherwise the bank can't do business with the US.
Limonene@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 159d
They do have an obligation to serve their own citizens. The US double tax reporting bullshit does apply to dual citizens.
mcv@lemmy.zip · 28 pts · 158d
This is not because anyone wants to discriminate against Americans (maybe they do, but it's unrelated to this rule), but because of rules the US forces on the rest of the world. There are special tax reporting rules for US Persons that banks have to obey if they want to be able to do business with the US at all. If you can't or don't want to follow those special rules, avoiding having US Persons as customer is the easiest way to comply.
I've worked for several Dutch banks, and US Person is a special category they have to deal with. No other nationality has this. Maybe Ethiopia? But that's easily ignored. But nobody ignores the US. They have no choice but to comply. Vote for a different tax code if you don't like it.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 19 pts · 159d
AFAIK this has to do with US tax law and how it applies to income earned by US citizens abroad.
I have never answered yes to this, but would be surprised if it were impossible or even considerably harder for US persons to open bank accounts. I always thought this just triggered slightly different rules for the bank?
booly@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 159d
Lots of non-American banks don't want to deal with the rules, so it's easier for them to just say that they won't open accounts for Americans.
lechekaflan@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 158d
This is one of those little catches anyone preaching to their relatives to emigrate don't say about.
I live in a third world country, and until Trump, nearly everyone wants a fucking green card thinking it's gonna make them happy.
ArgumentativeMonotheist@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 158d
If you have two nationalities, couldn't you just be sneaky and never tell the authorities of the country you moved to? If you're not planning on going back, for example, what would be the problem?
Ajen@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 158d
Sounds like fraud. As long as no one finds out you'd probably get away with it, but you would be committing tax evasion according to US laws.
If you really don't want to go back you can get rid of your US citizenship and avoid the problem.
ArgumentativeMonotheist@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
I wonder if you could/would get extradited for not paying taxes to Uncle Sam. 🤔
But yeah, just renouncing the citizenship seems to be the way forward if you're not planning on coming back.
Jikiya@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 157d
Don't think extradited, but US would try to garnish/seize money going into that account, which is why foreign banks don't want to deal with the hassle of having a US customer. The extra legal requirements to have an account for you is just not worth it to them. The exception is only when you have a great deal of money, and then they can actually make money from your deposits. But then that amount of money in a bank is a sure sign you don't know how to manage your money.
BastingChemina@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 157d
My experience is that in most cases, when asked about your nationality in a form it's easier and normal to only give one nationality.
Like at the airport, even if I have multiple nationalities I only give one passport, I just have to make sure it's the right passport (the one with the visa for example).
However in there case of back accounts, insurances ... They ask specifically "are you a U.S. citizen ?". In this case answering no to this question would be a clear lie.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 4 pts · 159d
yeah I have eu citizenship and can't open an account in europe. Now I can if I am resident to the particular area. I think europe is losing a big opportunity as I would not be surprised if quite a few us people would not mind having a bit of euros in a better run banking system just in case. They should tell the us to shove it with whatever laws or treaties prevent this.
foobaz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 158d
Nah, all eu countries will honor their tax treaties with the us. If the us gov/irs wants to fuck over their citizens that's your problem.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 0 pts · 158d
well and lost opportunity. What makes a reserve currency is people keeping accounts in that currency.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · -8 pts · 158d
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 159d
Wait... You didn't know off-shore bank accounts are only for the rich and powerful?
Downvotes likely from non-Americans. Europeans specifically. They like to downvote stuff about America and Americans on Lemmy. A common prejudice on Lemmy, unfortunately.
AzuranAurora@piefed.ca · 8 pts · 159d
If you mention (and especially if you complain about) downvotes, you're gonna receive them from everybody. That's just how it is. It's fake internet points, they don't matter.
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 158d
This is also very true. OP may have picked up a few "Hate Followers" too, I know I have picked up a few along my time on the internet. They just can't be bothered to use the block feature, I guess. Or they think they are getting back at them.for some reason, which is pretty sad if someone thinks fake internet points matter that much.
I remember when I used to have a Reddit account that had Hate Followers, I would make a post or comment that would almost always end in a high positive vote count, but in less than 60 seconds of posting it the vote count would be zero for like an hour before the vote count turned positive lol. Always had one or two comments from the same accounts that werent even related to whatever I was talking about. I used to get a good chuckle out of it.
digdilem@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 159d
Thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot to.
IntrovertTurtle@lemmy.zip · -17 pts · 159d
Perhaps, just maaaybe there's a social climate attributed to current events that makes this post more of a, "no shit Sherlock" kind of post. 🙄
Low hanging fruit and all that.
Also, being butthurt about downvotes is cringe as fuck, go back to reddit.
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 159d
I am not on reddit, you seem to keep inferring random stuff lol go back to sleep
FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world · -24 pts · 159d
If you're not American, why are you telling the institutions that you are?
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 159d
Huh? Where i said that
FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 159d
My question was genuine. You wrote:
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 159d
And my misunderstanding is genuine? I dont know how you derived that fact from what i posted lol i never stated "i am american" to anyone, because it is not only factually false but also would bring me problems
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 159d
How do you know that they won't open an account if you say yes? Do you know people who have had this experience, or did the banks tell you that they would not provide these services for Americans?
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 159d
The insurance told me, but you can google that information yourself, or simply call any bank in france usually they do have english speaking line
FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
I believe you. My understanding of your post:
Hence my question. That's all.
kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 159d
Alright maybe my English is at fault. "If yes" meant to be: when I asked "what d happen in the hypothesis I was american"?
FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 159d
Well, my reading comprehension as also not the best some times so I'm definitely not innocent here. I can take things to literally (and not understand sarcasm). Thanks for clarifying. I hope I didn't cause offence.
mr_anny@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 159d
They propably slip explanation to the question like "Good, then we can open the account"