Europe is moving to block Microsoft, Amazon, and Google from handling government health, financial, and legal data
https://www.techspot.com/news/112362-europe-may-restrict-microsoft-amazon-google-handling-sensitive.html
994 points · 95 comments · view on lemmy.world
95 Comments
aproposnix@piefed.social · 125 pts · 101d
But hey, the UK are cool with Palantir.
blackbeans@lemmy.zip · 63 pts · 101d
Same in the Netherlands. There's still a long way to go
Bloefz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 98d
Yeah the whole tax office just decided to migrate to office 365. They had their own in house software for decades and now at this moment in time they decide to move to US cloud.
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · 41 pts · 101d
Australia here. Us too, even our supermarkets.
finallymadeanaccount@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 101d
Fuck 'em. I'm gonna render their surveillance useless.
I buy Quilton Toilet Paper because it loves my bum, and I'm not ashamed to admit it!
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 100d
Coles is your target. I don’t think the others are using them yet.
sexy_peach@feddit.org · 28 pts · 101d
Same is Germany, already using it with the police
pwalker@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 100d
To be more precise, 4 of the 16 german states use it already (of course Bavaria one of the 4). Others are planning to test it and also federal police was probing it but this has been denied by the ministry so far and in many other states there is a lot of opposition to it. So the fight to data sovereignty and privacy continues. Also in 2018 the German supreme court set up high legal barrier to "automated data analysis" which makes it difficult to fully use Plantirs capabilities. You see a detailed analysis of the whole situation in Germany by CCC here: https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-blackbox-palantir#t=1621
lysol@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 101d
Sweden as well...
benjirenji@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 100d
Switzerland isn't. Palantir even sued the Swiss newspaper that reported on it.
Rothe@piefed.social · 5 pts · 100d
Same in Denmark.
aproposnix@piefed.social · 5 pts · 99d
That's crazy considering the US threats over Greenland.
Griffus@lemmy.zip · 77 pts · 101d
But what about Palantir?
finallymadeanaccount@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 101d
I feel for that poor, struggling startup. And their cute little CEO is just so earnest!
Sabata11792@ani.social · 17 pts · 101d
+5 Freedom Points™ have been issued to your account.
MrMakabar@slrpnk.net · 13 pts · 101d
The idea is to ban foreign providers. So Palantir would be included.
Cavemanfreak@programming.dev · 10 pts · 100d
I sure hope so. Sweden has been cozying up Thiel during this last four year term. It looks line this government is falling in the upcoming election, but I have no faith that the opposition will change anything there...
kungen@feddit.nu · 5 pts · 100d
The police and such have been in deep with Palantir since long before this current government. They get excused, because it wasn't as well-known at that time how evil they are... but yeah, I really doubt that the next government would do anything different either.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 100d
PALANTIR is being peddled to several EU countries as a mass surveillance AI, and there seems to be little resistance from the governments. right wing govts would love to moniter ANTIFA dissidents.
Scrogu@lemmy.zip · 66 pts · 100d
But not Palantir.
ptu@sopuli.xyz · 17 pts · 100d
The list was just to demonstrate the effects, yes it affects also Palantir. It would likely be very illegal to make legislation that affects only a selected few companies.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 100d
Don't let perfection be the enemy of good. We both know morals is rarely why any government does anything.
Mr_WorldlyWiseman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 100d
I'm gonna go ahead and be first to say that palantir is not good. All the government partnerships with them clearly violate GDPR and the AI framework.
Like, it's good progress that the EU is talking about US companies now, but Palantir should 100% be mentioned in the same breath. At the least because many EU citizens aren't even aware that Palantir exists.
Hopefully this new law will also apply to Palantir partnerships
jve@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 99d
Truly an honor to be here for the moment.
But for the grace of our politicians.
KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca · 55 pts · 101d
I really hope Canada follows suit, after Microsoft pulled that shit with the international criminal court they clearly cannot be trusted.
EatYourOrach@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 100d
I hope so too.
In other news:
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 100d
Ontario is pretty much the Texassippi of Canada, though, right?
Tja@programming.dev · 7 pts · 100d
You're thinking of Alberta
EatYourOrach@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 100d
Where hog bosses do favours for hog bosses? Pretty much.
wampus@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 101d
Canada can't at the moment, and its government has continued becoming more and more entrenched in US tech throughout 2025 and 2026. So, prepare to be disappointed. Most Canadians enjoyed the lip-service a bit, but didn't really care -- even things like the "Buy Local" and travel stuff is easing off already, even as the USA continues down its tech oligarch backed authoritarian villain arch.
BC for example, is likely losing its last Canadian-backend financial institution. The financial system regulators, and all the banks/credit unions, are 100% captured by US tech. Wealthsimple's growing like crazy, built as a cloud-first business within US tech ecosystems, with deep ties to companies like Oracle and Amazon, investing heavily in San Fran tech startups etc. If you had a Data sovereignty type law come in, the entire financial sector, a "critical industry", would disappear.
YawningNostalgia@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 100d
Asking out of pure curiosity--are you Canadian or a tech guy? Is Canada really reliant on the US?
wampus@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 100d
I am Canadian. I've worked in the Financial industry for about 20 years (either directly or adjacent to it in roles like auditing). I am an IT guy.
Here's some more examples / clarifications of it: pretty well all of Canada's ATMs run on Windows. When questioned about why, companies that provide those systems state that its a requirement from Payments Canada.
Most Financial Institutions use USA-tied backend banking systems -- there's 1-2 "Canadian" providers, but they're very niche (hence the note about BC's situation, BC being the western most province in Canada). Companies like FISERV (USA) expanded into Canada a few decades ago -- their initial entry to the market failed due to them not caring about differences between Canadian and US financial products. They didn't bother porting anything, treating things like the US "401k" logic as basically the same as Canada's RRSPs doesn't work, and lead to massive problems for many FIs -- problems that sank a couple. So they bought out a Canadian product that was called DNA (which ran on Oracle). FISERV is one of the dominant players in the Canadian market.
Canada's Central1 Credit Union, the trade association / service provider for their Credit Unions, recently bailed on hosting in-country online banking services, after having screwed up their implementation of the ISO20022 really really badly. They 'sold' that whole segment of their business off to an Indian Headquartered company which hosts its products in Microsoft's cloud, uses developers from the UAE, and has only like 1-2 security staff in Canada (so all your security events are definitely going elsewhere). Adding to this, at the start of Central1's mismanagement of online banking, they had 2 geodistant datacenters on either side of the country -- but they hired a US Banker to run their IT department, and he put all their internal stuff (beyond just the online banking) into the cloud, turfing their internal systems. Oh, and in terms of it continuing in this direction even with the turmoil -- since 2025, Central has shifted their backend online cheque processing, one of the last items outstanding, into Microsoft's cloud. So even if you're using a small credit union in a tiny community, if you write a cheque, you're reliant on USA cloud infrastructure.
BC's provincial financial regulators, the BC FSA, put out an RFP about a decade ago noting some serious gaps in their IT framework -- the RFP was amazing to read, as it noted things like software that had been EOL for almost a decade, which they admitted they couldn't support properly, because they'd basically fired most of their IT staff. The RFP was a total "front"/box-checking exercise though, as they'd already chosen who they were going with -- the RFP lasted only a brief time, and was tailored to ensure a specific vendor would win (issued June 17, 155 pages of specifications/environment description background, submission deadline July 31 -- vendor work startingQ4. A turn around speed unheard of in govt, if they were doing any due diligence). The result was that the BC FSA moved all of its IT ecosystem stuff into Microsoft's cloud. The industry submits member/customer personal information directly into a site that's hosted on Microsoft's cloud -- even uses generic Microsoft cloud login infra. So a huge portion of FI customer data is exposed through the regulators of the industry.
YawningNostalgia@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 99d
Bless you for responding sincerely, I appreciate that so much. I apologize if most of it has gone over my head but is there a movement to detach yourselves from the US?
I have been so in my own head lately and focused on my field of study that I almost feel like an alien. What does this mean in practical terms, how much is my data available to entities I've never heard of, can you tell me in practical terms what that means for me/the average person?
wampus@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 99d
YawningNostalgia@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 99d
This is absolutely fascinating. Still a bit dense ngl lol. It will take me some time to work through, I feel bad I'm not giving your write-up the time it deserves. Wondering, what would be your ideal solution? You basically wrote an entire essay for me and I'm half in love with you now. Talk my ear off about it anytime
wampus@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 99d
wampus@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 99d
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 1 pts · 100d
Damn, that sucks.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 5 pts · 100d
Seconded for UK. Anyone not reading the room right now and following the EU's lead is about to FAFO.
stumu415@lemmy.zip · 31 pts · 101d
Except for the Dutch where the government outsourced the Digid - our national ID and most personal information - to an American firm. Despite concerns from the parliament.
But the new PM is a lapdog to Trump because his mentor and former PM Rutte, is so far up Trump's ass, he can cut his tonsils.
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 101d
I do agree with most of this, but calling Rutte the mentor of Jetten is simply not true.
Most of what you say is, though.
ChromaticMan@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 101d
Yeah it sucks, but I'm happy with my vote for Barbara Kathmann. She is doing some great work to spread more awareness and trying to stop it.
RecursiveParadox@piefed.social · 0 pts · 101d
I read this weekend there was a new court challenge though?
Bloefz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 98d
Yes but it was struck down
RecursiveParadox@piefed.social · 1 pts · 98d
Well that's fucked. Is there anything left to do to stop this bullshit?
Also I read it was the damn VVD who made this deal in the last cabinet. Figures.
Bloefz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 98d
I don't think so, but the deal is only for 2 years. They will revisit it then and considering the uproar it is unlikely it will go to a US party again.
I'm more concerned by the tax service moving everything to Microsoft 365 to be honest. There's bound to be a lot more personal data going there and it is not only for 2 years.
And yeah the VVD adore America. They've been trying to make the Netherlands into a copy of America for decades. They're super neoliberal and service the big corporations, very much like the democrats in the US.
RecursiveParadox@piefed.social · 1 pts · 97d
The VVD did this to us. And their neoliberal bullshit led directly to the PVV and the other far right garbage.
Big protest coming to my city tomorrow against the AZC, not even people from here. We will counterprotest and not le them near the AZC, that's the plan anyway.
Bloefz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 97d
Yeah 100% agreed about the VVD.
I really respect you taking the effort to counter protest! Kudos 👏 and thank you.
I don't live there anymore, and I haven't in decades but it shocks me when I'm back. The hatred against asylum seekers, LGBTQ etc. It's not the country I remember, that stood for equality and fairness for all 😢
RecursiveParadox@piefed.social · 1 pts · 97d
We had 400-500 people gather at the park just south of the centrum. They all marched off, but we are not really sure where they were going (there was more than one group than ours involved).
It's possible they were headed for the centraal station, where the AZC protesters would be coming from....
Damage@feddit.it · 21 pts · 101d
About fucking time. Make it quick.
lord_alois@feddit.org · 5 pts · 101d
Read in the voice of Ozzy
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 101d
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 19 pts · 101d
US didn't save Germany in 1945. It was a group effort
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 101d
Auli@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 101d
I mean there are other options. But people are lazy and hope others well save them.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 1 pts · 100d
Indeed. It's not exactly a tit-for-tat situation where the Jewish and minority citizens were fleeing for their lives and applying for foreign visas left and right in the 1930s.
People aren't hiding in someone else's attic, they're still scrolling Xitter in their living rooms even though they swore they'd delete their account 6 months ago, while 'second screening' some outwardly fascist subscription service on their tv, liking posts about the last national protest that they "couldn't attend" because their boss asked if they could cover a shift that day.
If you guys truly need saving by this point, you sure are sending a lot of mixed messages to the world at large about it right now.
merdaverse@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 101d
Lol. 8 out of 10 nazi casualties were inflicted by the Soviets. That's the conservative estimate
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 101d
impedans@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 101d
I mean, sure, but if you are saying that rebuttal is a dumbed-down version of events - what the hell is your comment that he is replying to? "US saved Germany" is way more dumbed down.
Auli@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 101d
Yes America who sat back and came in at the end all refreshed and "saved" everyone.
merdaverse@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 101d
Hey, that's not fair! They also nuked 2 civilian cities just to prove their might. One of the biggest war crimes in history for which nobody was punished.
merdaverse@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 101d
Yes, they both had a part, and the USSR's part was significantly more important. But I know that might get in the way of your American exceptionalism fantasy.
jaybone@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 101d
Taking a break from your .ml account today?
Brummbaer@pawb.social · 12 pts · 101d
Everything I don't like is tankies!
merdaverse@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 101d
Yes, this has been my main account for the last year. It's cute that you noticed.
What do your astute analysis skills tell you about Europe's collective Stockholm Syndrome that the US "saved" them from the nazis?
rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 100d
I didn't think much of it when Merz said something similar, but now it begs the question; are there people out there who believe that the Allies "saved" Germany? Like, with what they did to Dresden, and Berlin? What about Japan? If so, our "education" methods are quite throughout; they can make you believe something very different from what's in front of your eyes.
jaxxed@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 100d
And perhaps Palantir?
MisterD@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 99d
I think the UK health system decided they were cool to sell data to Palantir
orbitz@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 99d
Though they're not really EU anymore at least. Unless I'm missing something? Like yes Europe but not EU.
I really hope Canada can be part of that union, our landmass isn't overly strong democraticly (due to certain neighbors effing things up) though it'd be an awesome middle finger to the US if Mexico could join as well. Oh look you're surrounded by people not in your coolition, funny how that happens when you decide to be a complete asshole eh?
Let's bring everyone up that we can, even if we get used to less because we all have to live on this planet may as well work together....that's a pipe dream I know but wouldn't it rock if we all found out how to get along, share and communicate? Again if only.
Mean I get lots of changes need to happen to make that a possibility but not like we don't have time to work things out and figure out how we can all prosper.
favoredponcho@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 99d
ClassyHatter@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 101d
Good. Finland just last year spent some 600 million euros on new AI system running on AWS, built by a USA company, that, once it's completed, will handle social insurance related applications. If you need something like unemployment benefits, disability/sickness related benefits, etc. all the necessary information required to handle your application will be handed to that system.
Lumisal@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 101d
Didn't the deal get cancelled?
ClassyHatter@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 101d
Haven’t heard anything about that. I think they finalized the deal last year. Election system plan canceled, though.
Lumisal@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 101d
At least the elections won't get stolen through American interference. But yeah, I think it passed but the justice system has halted it because it isn't funny legal as worded, or something of such is what I last remember.
Hopefully. Though, currently the system is so underfunded the AI might actually get more people assistance, but I'd rather it be delayed until these stupid right wing parties can be voted out. And now the train line after the Sello stop is getting closed down for the whole freaking summer for the dumbest train line expansion project for Orpo.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 2 pts · 100d
Jesus, even Finland??
Thought you guys were like corruption proof lol
Auli@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 101d
I mean they are untrustworthy. They have to share any data they have with the us no matter where it is if asked. These safeguards of the data must be in our country means nothing.
dovah@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 101d
I believe AWS has already tried getting ahead of this by introducing their EU Sovereign Cloud offering. I can imagine regulators would still allow something like this, but time will tell.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 100d
Yeah that's bullshit, Microsoft already terrified that that means shit for data sovereignty as the US government can access that data whenever they want, even when it's in Europe, even when it's government data.
So fuck those solutions, and any sovereignty claims on that site are just plain lies. The data is stored in Europe, but that is a mere technicality as the US government can view it at any moment they want
BigDiction@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 100d
How? Isn’t the whole point that data is stored in the EU for services that only operate inside the EU so they are not subject to US Judicial warrants or discovery?
IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 100d
It was the idea. Law only states that data has to remain in EU, so Microsoft servers in Ireland is enough to fulfil that requirement. They still have exceptions on their TOS that they can move that data to where ever they want if there's a 'technical need' or whatever and there's exceptions on EU laws (or maybe it was a separate agreement) which spesifically permits this. And USA can still get any data as they have leverage over the 'main' company, so Microsoft and others just bend the knee and give whatever is requested, no matter where the data is physically stored.
And now as all kinds of as-a-service -platforms, AI solutions very much included, are apparently the best thing since sliced bread, everyone just jumps on the bandwagon and don't really worry about hanging themselves with a single provider nor it's country of origin.
a4ng3l@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 100d
Nha that’s not flying. The gag order thingy is still our problem with those « sovereign » clouds… it’s only sovereign until US gov decides it’s not anymore. See SCHREMS and his admirable endeavours.
Mr_WorldlyWiseman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 100d
The European commission is very much aware that a nominally EU company being owned by a US company is still a risk.
https://commission.europa.eu/document/download/09579818-64a6-4dd5-9577-446ab6219113_en?filename=Cloud-Sovereignty-Framework.pdf
sirdorius@programming.dev · 9 pts · 101d
Europe needs to invest in proper cloud infrastructure. The only European cloud provider that is even remotely comparable to the big 3 is Scaleway, and they're still like 10 years behind in terms of features.
MrMakabar@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 101d
This is doing that. When you are not allowed to use foreign cloud providers, you have to use local ones. So they get business and are able to develop new features.
MrSulu@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 101d
Something the rest of the planet should get behind for all the correct governance and security reasons. Palantir meanwhile has somehow (stupidly) been approved for continuation here in the UK.
Auli@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 101d
The world was lazy and how we let America take over our tech is just stupid. We should have digital soveeinty or at the very least other countries involved so we can st least pivot. But no we just let the Americans come in buy every competing company and call it good.
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 101d
Please let them add Salesforce to that list
CorrectAlias@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 101d
It seems like it'll be included, it's affecting all services storing government and healthcare data. Of course, it doesn't affect private companies so Salesforce will still probably be used elsewhere. Just not in government. The same can be said about other SaaS companies like Cloudflare, Atlassian, and ServiceNow.
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 100d
Even if the US was trustworthy, this is still a prudent move. Good relations are not forever between nations, and it reduces the opportunities for third parties like Palantir to exfiltrate data.
P1nkman@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 100d
I am 100% for this, and hates Microsoft as much as the next Lemmy user. However... I stumbled into my career by accident, and I feel like shit for it. I'm a Power Platform developer. What are my options to move?
themaninblack@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 100d
The guilt alone is your absolution
NotSafeForWorld@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 99d
Let me know if you find an answer for that. I'm in the same boat.
Bloefz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 98d
I am in a similar position. I work in applications and our company has migrated everything to Microsoft over the last years. It's really disheartening especially because their solutions are usually worse than the ones they replaced.
Also, Microsoft sales is really thick with our bosses and they're constantly pushing us to evangelise their stuff. Using consultants trying to teach us "user adoption". Especially now that they're pushing all their co-pilot crap.
I don't want to do this because their solutions are crap and besides that I feel the users should decide which features they use and which they don't.
mcv@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 99d
About time. European governments and corporations have been handing our data to the US for too long. It has made our data protection laws pretty much meaningless.
The Dutch government is being particularly stupid right now in stubbornly trying to sell our e-ID system to an American company despite the entire parliament opposing it.
CyroSignal@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 101d
Good idea.
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 99d
They probably already have it
mriormro@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 99d
Read the article.
itisileclerk@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 101d
Except for Macedonia where Government is pushing for more Azure integration.
lemmylump@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 101d
Who do we actually trust?
Granted, these companies controlling the board of pieces, and the pieces of the board, it is alarming, but without hard and I mean HARD safeguards to this data via legislation we are cooked.
rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 100d
Yourself. Only.