I'm going to try answering the titular question, despite the factual situation being wholly divorced from sanity, through no fault of the OP directly. Unless some new convention on the laws of the sea has been enacted vis-a-vis international waters -- which the Strait is -- a nation which provides some sort of service over that area is not entitled to remuneration. It would be gratis.
That said, in the very different context of aeronautical navigation, there is indeed precedence for providing a service to an international zone, but this is agreed to by multilateral treaty, not imposed. For this, we look to the massive area of the north Pacific Ocean, for which there is essentially no radar service available. And yet, to enable civil aircraft to fly without colliding with each other at speed, somebody needs to coordinate the flight routes and provide weather information. Through ICAO, the USA is the contracting state that provides such service over the Oakland Oceanic Flight Information Region. This means most of the Pacific Ocean is not USA airspace, but does follow the American procedures for organizing traffic (which follows from ICAO rules but possibly with small tweaks). This is the distinction between "USA airspace" and "USA controlled airspace". ICAO chose the USA because no other country can realistically perform this service, nor has anyone else put in an offer to ICAO.
To pay for this service, the USA FAA charges overflight fees. Since the FAA is a civil agency, it does not have authority to order a shoot-down of an airline's jets due to non-payment. Rather, the FAA can collect the owed fees through the American courts, just like anyone else would through a lawsuit for money damages. The FAA could also take adverse regulatory action, such as providing less or no service, subject to minimum obligations required by ICAO. The agency can also choose to cancel or disapprove of flights headed to/from USA airspace. If an airliner flies into the territorial airspace of any country without permission, then the air force would respond, not the civil air regulator.
So what does this have to do with international waters and maritime navigation? The air example shows how an equivalent fee for water passage would have to be implemented, when it concerns international waters. Everyone has to agree to the terms, the fee has to be economically reasonable, the contracting state must have some relationship to the area in question, and an international organization must actually contract with a qualified state to provide said service.
The present action in the Strait meets none of this criteria. So yeah, a ship could try their luck and pass through the Strait without making payment. Maritime and international law would not support the USA's claims for remuneration, even if adjudicated in an American court.
That is a very thorough analysis, which relies on international law, legal precedent, and common sense.
But, have you considered that Donald Trump doesn't give a fuck, and does what he wants? If he wants to charge a 20% fee for going through a body of water he doesn't own, who's gonna stop him? He will just go and do it, before anyone has the time to type out the word "adjudicated" on their phone.
You actually think trump or hegseth have any idea how to even coordinate a blockade across the entire strait? They already fired most of the people in the pentagon/military who actually knew what they were doing. So actually coordinating this is way beyond the mental capacity of any of the loyalists who are left.
Trump is just spouting bullshit because he doesn't want to look like a loser because Iran is playing him like a fool with their control of the strait. Trump won't do shit, remember TACO.
They have no idea how to coordinate a blockade effectively. But they know how to sound all tough and convince their supporters that they are kicking ass, even if all the missiles are gone and we can't do shit anymore.
I wish more of us didn't. But we're not really set up to keep these topics fresh. Even look at lemmy. Moderation has created momentum killing boxes that suck the life and energy out of any current events. Almost by design
Setting aside the many other things wrong with this, 20% the value of the cargo is just stupid. Most of it doesn’t have that much profit margin in the first place. I know it’s a number straight out of his ass, but damn, the stupid…
Trump sees the opportunity to make 20% on everything going through the Strait, and it totally shuts down EVERYTHING else in his brain. That's now his entire BEING! 20%! That's REAL money! Arab Sheikh kind of money!
What about fines for creating and then mismanaging the problem. And then creating the problem again, and mismanaging it again. And again, the art of the deal or how I don't pay any attention to reality or what I did yesterday.
It’s a complete illusion that the US can control this strait. It could destabilize it further if it wishes, but there is no getting a ship through without Iran’s cooperation.
Because Iran has a ton of land along the straight from which they can launch missles, drones, rockets, or even artillery at passing ships. There’s a huge region where they can attack the strait, and the US can’t put hundreds of thousands of troops on that land to hold it all. Therefore Trump cannot declare the strait open, though he can declare the strait closed (this just hurts him most of all).
All his bullshit about floating ships at one end to “gate” the passage, and escorting ships, and shooting down rockets…. It’s complete bluster. Even with the entire US military he cannot guarantee safe passage. And that’s just one of the things he has to do if this war continues. He also has to try to defend our allies in the Gulf and elsewhere.
He doesn't understand the concept of 'allies'. I thought this was clear by now.
The US is currently directing the gulf states towards China and Iran as the former has large influence on the latter which claims to attack mainly due to the gulf states being 'allies' to the US... which seems to be a worthless titel nowadays.
I wouldn’t be surprised if his aides write these tweets based on rants he goes on to them and anyone who will listen. Regardless of who’s doing the actual typing though, I 100% believe that he has said/thinks all the dumb shit he tweets
We are charging 1/5th the cost of everything through the strait, eh? That just seems like yet another illegal tariff just to appease the mal formed ego of our worst president.
I mean, it's a part of government that hasn't been privatized. Imagine if the Armed Forces turned a profit and had a market mandate? Works really well for the prison system! /s
Not sure this will keep working. Only a matter of time before enough people just copy his scam and the market stops moving to the trump scam geopolitics.
94 Comments
DragonAce@lemmy.world · 145 pts · 48d
This dumb motherfucker thinks he can somehow do a protection racket on the entire rest of the world. Fucking moron.
Iran already closed the strait when the ceasefire was broken.
joeljoelle@piefed.blahaj.zone · 129 pts · 48d
stay in school, kids or else you might be president some day
horn_e4_beaver@discuss.tchncs.de · 18 pts · 48d
Also, don't do drugs.
joeljoelle@piefed.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 48d
*Do better drugs.
forty2@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 48d
*Don't do drugs that are harder than you
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 5 pts · 48d
Whoa, keep it down. You can't be threatening kids like that!
litchralee@sh.itjust.works · 75 pts · 48d
I'm going to try answering the titular question, despite the factual situation being wholly divorced from sanity, through no fault of the OP directly. Unless some new convention on the laws of the sea has been enacted vis-a-vis international waters -- which the Strait is -- a nation which provides some sort of service over that area is not entitled to remuneration. It would be gratis.
That said, in the very different context of aeronautical navigation, there is indeed precedence for providing a service to an international zone, but this is agreed to by multilateral treaty, not imposed. For this, we look to the massive area of the north Pacific Ocean, for which there is essentially no radar service available. And yet, to enable civil aircraft to fly without colliding with each other at speed, somebody needs to coordinate the flight routes and provide weather information. Through ICAO, the USA is the contracting state that provides such service over the Oakland Oceanic Flight Information Region. This means most of the Pacific Ocean is not USA airspace, but does follow the American procedures for organizing traffic (which follows from ICAO rules but possibly with small tweaks). This is the distinction between "USA airspace" and "USA controlled airspace". ICAO chose the USA because no other country can realistically perform this service, nor has anyone else put in an offer to ICAO.
To pay for this service, the USA FAA charges overflight fees. Since the FAA is a civil agency, it does not have authority to order a shoot-down of an airline's jets due to non-payment. Rather, the FAA can collect the owed fees through the American courts, just like anyone else would through a lawsuit for money damages. The FAA could also take adverse regulatory action, such as providing less or no service, subject to minimum obligations required by ICAO. The agency can also choose to cancel or disapprove of flights headed to/from USA airspace. If an airliner flies into the territorial airspace of any country without permission, then the air force would respond, not the civil air regulator.
So what does this have to do with international waters and maritime navigation? The air example shows how an equivalent fee for water passage would have to be implemented, when it concerns international waters. Everyone has to agree to the terms, the fee has to be economically reasonable, the contracting state must have some relationship to the area in question, and an international organization must actually contract with a qualified state to provide said service.
The present action in the Strait meets none of this criteria. So yeah, a ship could try their luck and pass through the Strait without making payment. Maritime and international law would not support the USA's claims for remuneration, even if adjudicated in an American court.
dhork@lemmy.world · 54 pts · 48d
That is a very thorough analysis, which relies on international law, legal precedent, and common sense.
But, have you considered that Donald Trump doesn't give a fuck, and does what he wants? If he wants to charge a 20% fee for going through a body of water he doesn't own, who's gonna stop him? He will just go and do it, before anyone has the time to type out the word "adjudicated" on their phone.
DragonAce@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 48d
You actually think trump or hegseth have any idea how to even coordinate a blockade across the entire strait? They already fired most of the people in the pentagon/military who actually knew what they were doing. So actually coordinating this is way beyond the mental capacity of any of the loyalists who are left.
Trump is just spouting bullshit because he doesn't want to look like a loser because Iran is playing him like a fool with their control of the strait. Trump won't do shit, remember TACO.
dhork@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 48d
They have no idea how to coordinate a blockade effectively. But they know how to sound all tough and convince their supporters that they are kicking ass, even if all the missiles are gone and we can't do shit anymore.
muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com · -4 pts · 48d
The united states of america holds the monopoly on violence they can thus do whatever the fuck they want and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
cabillaud@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 48d
And yet they are ridiculed by the Iranians.
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 48d
There seems there is actually plenty everyone can do about it.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 68 pts · 47d
Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 47d
Good try but the lefts goldfish brain already moved on.
prenatal_confusion@feddit.org · 1 pts · 46d
My goldfish braun hasnt.
Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 46d
I wish more of us didn't. But we're not really set up to keep these topics fresh. Even look at lemmy. Moderation has created momentum killing boxes that suck the life and energy out of any current events. Almost by design
edgemaster72@lemmy.world · 58 pts · 48d
Didn't we already do this in March with the whole "nuh uh I'm actually closing the strait to you" bs? I hate summer reruns.
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 48d
__Lost__@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 47d
Yo dawg, I heard you like blockades, so we got you a blockade for your blockade!
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 47d
its been closed and open almost everytime he needs to sell his stocks, or if the files keep appearing on the news.
Lydon_Feen@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 48d
Absolute insanity.
This is extortion, therefore an act of war against all nations dependent on shipments from and to Hormuz.
krisevol@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 47d
What do you think the lloyds of london were doing for decades?
Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org · 39 pts · 48d
known as the STRAIT ROBBERS.
VeryVito@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 48d
Pirates of the Hormuz
thefluffiest@feddit.nl · 37 pts · 48d
Okay so now every ship will be taxed first by Iran and then by the US’ians. All to lower oil prices.
Stable genius indeed.
beebarfbadger@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 48d
In today's episode of "Cool Story, Bro":
scarabic@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 48d
Setting aside the many other things wrong with this, 20% the value of the cargo is just stupid. Most of it doesn’t have that much profit margin in the first place. I know it’s a number straight out of his ass, but damn, the stupid…
plyth@feddit.org · 2 pts · 47d
Prices will rise, making US fracking gas profitable.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 48d
Just fucking die
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 27 pts · 47d
Trump sees the opportunity to make 20% on everything going through the Strait, and it totally shuts down EVERYTHING else in his brain. That's now his entire BEING! 20%! That's REAL money! Arab Sheikh kind of money!
He is mentally ill. He literally can't resist.
Miller@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 48d
What about fines for creating and then mismanaging the problem. And then creating the problem again, and mismanaging it again. And again, the art of the deal or how I don't pay any attention to reality or what I did yesterday.
wuffah@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 48d
When Iran started extorting ships for passage through the strait, his first thought was to do the same thing.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 48d
It’s a complete illusion that the US can control this strait. It could destabilize it further if it wishes, but there is no getting a ship through without Iran’s cooperation.
Because Iran has a ton of land along the straight from which they can launch missles, drones, rockets, or even artillery at passing ships. There’s a huge region where they can attack the strait, and the US can’t put hundreds of thousands of troops on that land to hold it all. Therefore Trump cannot declare the strait open, though he can declare the strait closed (this just hurts him most of all).
All his bullshit about floating ships at one end to “gate” the passage, and escorting ships, and shooting down rockets…. It’s complete bluster. Even with the entire US military he cannot guarantee safe passage. And that’s just one of the things he has to do if this war continues. He also has to try to defend our allies in the Gulf and elsewhere.
GardenGeek@europe.pub · 8 pts · 47d
He doesn't understand the concept of 'allies'. I thought this was clear by now.
The US is currently directing the gulf states towards China and Iran as the former has large influence on the latter which claims to attack mainly due to the gulf states being 'allies' to the US... which seems to be a worthless titel nowadays.
ape_arms@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 48d
I am very skeptical that he writes any of these tweets anymore.
ozymandias117@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 48d
He regularly denies saying things he's on camera saying, but doesn't deny these types of things... He seems to be proud of them
FearMeAndDecay@literature.cafe · 9 pts · 48d
I wouldn’t be surprised if his aides write these tweets based on rants he goes on to them and anyone who will listen. Regardless of who’s doing the actual typing though, I 100% believe that he has said/thinks all the dumb shit he tweets
rounding_error@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 48d
Natalie Harp is one of those aides.
Danquebec@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 48d
Who's crazy enough to write such delusional things in this insane style?
ape_arms@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 48d
XeroxCool@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 48d
Dozens of different satire writers do this daily
unmagical@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 48d
We are charging 1/5th the cost of everything through the strait, eh? That just seems like yet another illegal tariff just to appease the mal formed ego of our worst president.
fox2263@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 47d
We have put a door in front of their door and theirs is closed but ours is open so theirs is open because we closed it
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca · 18 pts · 48d
Even if this were actually going to happen, what is he doing? Renting out the US Navy for profit?
Sure maybe a few servicemen may die but at least America will get some money!
knife@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 47d
the whole point of the us armed forces is to secure profits
No_Eponym@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 47d
I mean, it's a part of government that hasn't been privatized. Imagine if the Armed Forces turned a profit and had a market mandate? Works really well for the prison system! /s
apftwb@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 48d
"We will pay you to cross the strait."
...
"You will pay us to cross the strait."
scroll_responsibly@lemmy.sdf.org · 17 pts · 48d
He’s gonna declare peace in a couple of days… after he sells his oil stocks.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 47d
Not sure this will keep working. Only a matter of time before enough people just copy his scam and the market stops moving to the trump scam geopolitics.
axh@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 47d
When mobsters visit a local business they also collect payment for protection.
GutterRat42@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 48d
Did a 5 year old playing make believe write this?
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 47d
Trump Declares US Rubber, Iran Glue
GutterRat42@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 47d
Exactly
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 48d
I DECLARE... WHOREMUZ!!!
M0oP0o@mander.xyz · 4 pts · 47d
Chef's kiss
Well done.
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 48d
And that's how the price of oil and gas went up 30%
Allero@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 47d
Much to Trump's pleasure.
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 47d
Let's see what happens when a 'protected'ship is damaged.
It's international shipping going to risk having to sue Trump for damage received, or will they just not go?
krisevol@lemmus.org · -5 pts · 47d
Do you not know how insurance works?
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 47d
I'm pretty sure no insurer would cover you if you went through the straight of Hormuz based on Donnie's promises.
And I'm absolutely sure Donnie won't cover the costs himself.
krisevol@lemmus.org · 1 pts · 47d
The US is issuing the insurance now instead of lloyds of london
HK65@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 47d
So a company can feed oil tankers to Iran and the US pays?
If the payout is small, it's a shitty insurance and does nothing.
If the payout is big, it's free money since you're pretty much guaranteed to be droned.
krisevol@lemmus.org · 1 pts · 47d
So you really think insurance pays over 100?%?
HK65@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 46d
At a 100% risk, it better, or it's useless.
krisevol@lemmus.org · 0 pts · 46d
The data didn't show 100% risk
Evotech@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 47d
And what worth is that insurance is what we are wondering
Linktank@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 47d
His bitch ass already TACO'd about this.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 47d
He was much faster than I expected on that one. Soon, he's going to change his mind before the end of his post.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 48d
"Free with extortion"
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 12 pts · 47d
What will happen? They will kill you, that's what will happen.
It's not speculations, they did it already: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jun/15/indian-outrage-over-us-killing-of-sailors-mounts-as-leaders-attend-g7-summit
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 47d
cecilkorik@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 48d
Dementia is a terrible affliction.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 47d
cocaine is a hell of a drug. his brain was already mush, the cocaine finally liquefied it.
notsosure@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 48d
History ‘s clown.
Shalien@piefed.projetretro.io · 10 pts · 48d
Can't wait to have us marine open fire at sea on civilian vessels
eestileib@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 48d
They've been doing that in the Caribbean for well over a year.
marcos@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 48d
They have been doing that at the Arabian Sea for months too. They already bragged about killing some Indian civilians on twitter...
guy@piefed.social · 9 pts · 48d
So the US is essentially demanding protection money?
Maeve@kbin.earth · 9 pts · 48d
You'll likely be declared as
drug traffickersblockade runners and bombed.Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 47d
consider there was a bunch epstein info coming out, he had to do something.
radix@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 48d
Anyone, regardless of party or other policy positions, who commits to sending this asshat to The Hague in January 2029 will get my vote.
KulunkelBoom@lemmus.org · 8 pts · 48d
So on top of all his other crimes and criminal activity - now trump's a pirate.
Avicenna@programming.dev · 7 pts · 47d
very long way of saying we fucked up
blimthepixie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 48d
Don't worry everyone, it's Tuesday tomorrow
Jaysyn@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 47d
The fat pedo changed his mind about this less than 24 hours later.
Chozo@fedia.io · 6 pts · 48d
Ah yeah, surely an extortion racket will fix that.
joeljoelle@piefed.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 48d
This bear I keep poking with a stick sure is a grumpy asshole, better let me take care of it
christiangirlera@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 47d
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 47d
Well, that depends on if you are an orphan or not.
edit: 2 more Pirates of Penzance fans than i expected lol
bunnybunny@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 47d
Is there really someone who takes this piece of shit seriously?
scumola@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 47d
Photonic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 48d
Well he is already named Don, so it’s only inevitable he started acting like a mobster
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 1 pts · 48d
From this point forward known as the strait boys.
thatGuyWithGlasses@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 48d
echodot@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 47d
Alright the worship I want to see travelling through is going to have Donald Trump on it. We'll see how well protected it is.
devfuuu@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 48d
God dammit, someone just invade that stupid country and save us all from this. China we are all looking at you.