If NYC residents could do one on 9/11 that would get some solid coverage. Fill the memorial. Remind people Saudi Arabia is a part owner of this regime with Russia.
Putin, the House of Saud, and Netanyahu all have serious hooks into the orangeboi regime - and to a lesser but still significant extent, the vast majority of the entire US political apparatus and media sphere.
Thank you for saying it. I’m not putting my name on a list, but I’ll certainly participate. I bet we aren’t the only ones. Whatever the signup count, it’s probably at least double that willing to also take action.
I don’t like how two of the protests they’ve scheduled have been on holiday weekends when people are traveling or have big plans and cannot safely participate (Easter weekend and now Labor Day weekend). The No Kings protest was huge partly because it wasn’t on a holiday weekend. It seems very counter intuitive to have them on holiday weekends.
I hate reading the comments of all the capitulators here, carrying water for the regime by trying to discourage people with this constant drumbeat that protests are useless and ineffective. Bullshit. Are you magats? We've seen examples in history where protests and the movements they enabled have brought down those in power.
Protests are necessary but not sufficient in themselves. They're how resistance starts and builds, not how it ends. Did you ever think it might take time to form the momentum to get to a critical mass, especially after decades of complacency? Real momentum and effective action was never going to happen immediately or in just weeks, or even in less than eight months which is where we are now. There are already people grouping and doing things other than protests (iykyk) and will be more, made possible by the support and cover that large numbers participating provide.
Troops are being moved into cities and they will keep being sent to more cities. Blue cities. There's one reason for that--they want to intimidate people from turning out and use force to stop those who do. trump keeps saying so and plans are being implemented.
Point is, you may think it's all useless and ineffective, but the regime obviously doesn't. Why do you want to help them? If you think it's hopeless, fine--stay home and doom scroll, but stop trying to dissuade others.
Troops are being moved into cities and they will keep being sent to more cities.
Which is important. Make them want to cover every city in America. The problem for them is that they can't. There aren't enough regular troops, National Guard, and ICE agents put together to make it work. They'll be spread too thin.
That really highlights the importance of protests. If it was just New York it would fail. If it was just Chicago it would fail. If it were just LA it would fail. If we signal that we're all going to work together on this, they can't possibly do it.
I agree. The negativity in this forum has utility beyond providing a stupid counterpoint. It also saturates attention and screenspace in long threads of people arguing nonsense. The goal is disruption, and in a space far from corporate control like Reddit, yet somewhat under-moderated, it's alarmingly effective. At worst, there's an acutual playbook for this exact thing.
A ton of Europeans here hold the belief anything less than storming the street and shooting people isn't a worthy way to protest in America and they will tell you as much.
Not really, personally I and a lot of Europeans hold the belief that in order for anything to be done you actually need to be doing those things. Sorry I can't share your happiness about a bunch of people walking around the street that one time, while your child rapist in chief rapes both you and the rest of the world.
Don't like criticism of your inaction, actually do something about it.
Not really, personally I and a lot of Europeans hold the belief that in order for anything to be done you actually need to be doing those things.
Not just Europeans on this team. Watching from Canada and being told nothing can be done but a street march on a sunny Saturday while our own governing schmucks start instituting laws to appease and move our country toward fascism on the lead of the fuckers south of us, is god damn terrifying.
I won't be silent about it either. About 'murica or Canada. 'muricuns are letting a fascist dictator control them and affect lots of others around the world. Canadians are allowing our PM to do the same just much slower and with more smiles and handshakes.
Yeah, probably. They've been suppressed for so long that they're itching to use violent tactics when they don't really understand how violence is a careful, strategic tool for the left.
Damn those Europeans, always bitching about Trump being overthrown. Well, he isn't overthrown actually, instead he has more and more power by the day and Americans don't do anything effective about it. And those pesky Europeans keep bitching about things that happening instead of being happy about imaginary things that aren't happening.
They think that going out and shooting Republicans will help. Because of course the ones with control over the military will be easily brought down by randos with guns.
Depends on the ones you are shooting. If you kill the 80 year old Republican who has barely any cash? No it won't do shit. If you snipe Charlie Kirk or a senator, then yeah cause it breaks the illusion of their immunity.
Violence is a tool and much like any tool you need to know how to use it. Taking out the propaganda welps and the money movers would be a good first step. It's also a lot harder to work against if done with variable tactics since asymmetrical warfare is a bitch to work against.
You don't have to be well-organized nor strategic. Being chaotic and uncaught often works. I listen a lot to Behind the Bastards and Lions Led by Donkeys. It has given me the impression that effectiveness of a given behavior is a horseshoe, where the ends of the shoe have greater impact than a balanced style.
Surprisingly, it happens more often than one expects. Just listen to the podcasts I mentioned, all sorts of people, good and bad...usually the bad, get away with being weird in all the ways. Audacity is bit of a cheat code, because most people don't want to disrupt their daily life. This cedes agency to people who do things.
Only need the organization level of a WW2 resistance cell or an IRA cell. Squad level is more than large enough to execute effective operations on a strategic level so long as said cells aren't entirely singular, 5 cells each with 5 people for example even when working independently could probably bring a cities infrastructure to its knees let alone kill random politicians and their buddies.
Chill with the fedposting. You know you're not actually anonymous here, right? You're putting yourself at risk. People have had the FBI knocking on their door for less.
Okay and? Id tell a fed I want to fill the reflection pool with the corpses of every member of the legislature, executive, and judicial. They'd probably dismiss as a non actionable pretty damned fast since white dude from redneck land is probably a pretty damned common thing to hear this shit from.
Nope. That option disappeared on November 5, 2024.
You cannot allow fascists to have total control of a government and then expect to vote your way back to normality.
Lots of people are going to have to die to end this. And we'll probably go through a prolonged period of a decline of our quality of life before that happens. Then a prolonged period of recovery. And it could have easily been avoided if Americans had pulled their heads out of their asses and rubbed a couple brain cells together.
Agreed, but this has been brewing for over 18 years. Today's MAGA were yesteryear's Tea Party members. They liked to wear funny "patriotic" hats and discuss conspiracy theory level politics. Easily guided and basically brainless, if you hold up a picture of a liberal they would run at it screaming profanities like some weird carrot on a stick. They ALMOST destroyed the Republican party with that craziness ... but the party just steered into it and now rides the wave.
A lot of people's limits are pretty much already reached. Some of us are old, tired, and just not that interested in keeping the greed machine running.
Your average Joe may not grab a rifle and run at the illegal National Guards that have been deployed or do a Luigi... but if those average Joe's happen to see someone else do somwthing like that it will be good odds that they won't remember what the person looked like or which way they ran after they did it.
I humbly disagree. Protests can have a massive economic impact if they reach critical mass. Acts of violence also need a critical mass, but convincing people to protest is far easier than convincing them to commit acts of violence.
Don’t go to work, block all traffic, don’t pay taxes, stop spending, attack all opposition. With enough participation, we can crash the economy in a single day and regain control within a week. Getting people to do what is necessary en masse is the hard part. Things will have to get worse before we get there.
I do realize your username is literally GuyFawkes. Nevertheless, when somebody is doing wrong, the first approach should be to use reason and empathy as a point of argument. If that fails, then work to starve the oppressor of what they seek to exploit until they find that pursuit to be no longer in their interests. If that fails, then use whatever means necessary to ensure oppression ends and human rights that were once willingly suppressed instead become guaranteed.
Ok but step 1 has been thoroughly explored and this administration didn't delay their agenda for a second. Step 2 requires massive legal reform tandem with a functional judiciary, given that profit, capital, and power consolidation are what they seek. Unfortunately they're winning that battle as the judiciary and legal system are only degrading despite public outcry.
Did you go? Did you talk to anyone when you were there? Have you spoken with them since? If your answer is no, then you're just a loud bystander, who gives a fuck what you think. If all you know how to do is blow things up, then STFU and do it. Otherwise, try actually participating.
Fascists do not care about protests. Never have. Never will.
Fascists also don't allow fair elections if they can prevent them.
This is why it was so important for Americans to pull their heads out of their asses and make the obvious choice in November, instead of giving total control to fascists, making it WAY more likely for the next election to be fraudulent. Americans failed.
I'm going to let everyone reading this come to the obvious conclusion for what will end up needing to be done at this point.
And I got chastised for insulting people who are intolerant, both to tankies and fascists. These bullies only understand and respond to force. Give them what they want and they will wish to have stopped.
One of the factors in whether a nonviolent resistance movement can succeed or not is whether any state forces end up shifting loyalty. "Appealing to the moral sense of the people oppressing them" may be false if you're just talking about whoever's at the top, but it absolutely is a factor for the day-to-day bureaucrats and security forces. Nonviolent campaigns are more likely to cause these sorts of changes (particularly when violent crackdowns against nonviolent resistance backfires).
Consider the success of the following movements:
Peoples Power Revolution (First one in 1986) - several military leaders defected from the Marcos regime
Velvet Revolution (1989) - had several government officials defect
Malagasy Political Crisis (2002) - Defense minister resigned, generals and military officers were split on who to support (source for this one, since the article is hard to find). In fairness, although this one would largely be classified as nonviolent, at the time, it was hard to say whether or not there would be any armed conflict (aside from some incidents with police attacking protesters early in the movement)
There's several other cases of this happening over the past century, but I hope you get my point - nobody's appealing to the guy on the throne, they're appealing to all the other cogs in the machine.
I think he’s correct in stating this administration won’t care if we protest or how large it is. What we hope happens is that the protests get more momentum amongst the politically inert. That momentum could build us up to a general strike which would have more influence once the capitalists bottom line gets impacted. Maybe. IDK. This all sucks.
I've been to all the 50501 protests in my area as a show of support, but I'm not trying to accomplish anything. I'm just of the opinion that protests without action accomplish nothing. I am all into exercises, some real civil disobedience.
This is the problem. Co-conspirators don't grow on trees, and protests are for networking because online chatter is too obvious. If you're going to protests, but not trying to accomplish anything by doing it, you're doing it wrong.
That's why there needs to be a clear line that people know exists between performative protest and concrete protest.
For anyone confused:
Performative protests, like the No Kings protests, serve to:
Get people energized to either take concrete action or donate/join organizations that can
Reduce feelings of hopelessness/despair
Make people more aware who were previously not following the news much if all
Concrete protests actually delay or stop the bad thing in question (e.g. blocking exits to ICE facilities)
A lot of people are hoping No Kings and similar protests will stop Trump. They won't. Of course they won't. But you can bet there's a lot more people donating to charities that either legally fight the administration's actions, or disrupt fascist policies on the ground, and a lot of people end up breaking off from these more liberal protests to later go to more concrete ones.
They're not worthless, but nothing beats direct, concrete action.
Maybe it's just me, but seeing regular ass people who were previously entirely disinterested in politics start marching in the street, actively educating themselves about the political landscape, and even seeing some break off into actual blockades of ICE facilities gives me a lot more hope than seeing people do nothing in the first place.
You have to remember, the average person mostly just cares about their family and personal financial circumstances, doesn't take risks, and just reposts platitudes on facebook from time to time.
This is an improvement from the status quo, and any progress toward a better direction is good. I guarantee you, you will see many more people engaging in concrete actions as time goes on, because these sorts of protests help spur people into further action. Hell, we've already seen that happening.
These protests are gateways to concrete actions, not something that replaces them.
So double down right back at them. What are you doing to stop what's happening? How else should we disrupt the regime's efforts? What do you recommend? Or do you think shitting on people's efforts is helpful somehow and will lead to a good outcome?
My mom was a huge speeder. She almost never went below 10 over the limit. Any time someone told her something along the lines of "The sign says 60, and you're going 80." she'd respond along the lines of "Well, good thing signs can't stop me then, huh?"
She'd always slow down if she thought she saw a cop, though.
I always think about that when people talk about protests as if they're the final step and not just the warning before a revolt. If you want self-centered people, like the ones running our government, to listen to your signs, you need them to fear what comes afterward if they don't.
Interesting analogy, and a great point. I think it's a lot like poker. They place their bets, we place our bets. They raise the stakes, we raise the stakes. Eventually one of us is either going to fold or we're both going to end up going all in, and then we'll finally end up seeing what our hands end up being once that happens. Are any of us prepared to fold on this? I'm not. Are they prepared to fold? I don't know. Are they bluffing or are they holding all the right cards? I don't know. If it comes to that, I guess we'll find out.
That's a great analogy as well, though with the stakes as high as they are, I don't think either side is likely to fold. I think we'll have to show our hands and see who wins. I'd love to hear that the government caved in to our demands and everything is fine, but if that doesn't happen we need to understand that our work isn't done until we get what we need, regardless of whether or not they decide to give it to us willingly.
I don't think their hand is really that strong, as much as they've been trying to convince people it is. Their media is powerful, the image they project is powerful. They have convinced us to fear of a massively powerful military-backed surveillance state, as we should, but is that really something they can achieve? Only with a lot more apathy and cowing to authority than they're actually going to get, I think. Americans (and even the military is made up of Americans) are an unruly bunch at the best of times, and the powers that be might think they have enough money and enough security in place to protect them as their popular support dwindles and the MAGA wave they rode to power begins to realize that these authoritarians are not giving them back "muh freedumbs" like they promised but are in fact taking more of them away. As the famous quote goes, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." The regime has been ignoring and laughing at protests like 50501 and No Kings. They will have to fight eventually. Would the current regime survive more LA riots? Vietnam war protests? Another million man march? Probably. That's obviously what they're preparing for, as they should. But how far are they actually going to be able to go? And how far will the resistance go? I agree, we'll see once the cards are all on the table. But I think there's still plenty of room for hope that the actual future isn't going to be as bleak as it may seem right now.
It's good to see people politically animated, but these protests are largely 'controlled opposition'. It's an emergency venting valve where the people's frustration is channeled into a meaningless whistle.
The whole system is rotted. The democrats are not fighting for the small folk at all. If anything, a branch of the party is probably relieved that the republicans moved the overton window so far right.
Real change will require actual upheaval. You can't vote or protest your way out of this shit. Major civilian disobedience and unionizing is required across the board. There are some of us (working class) that are doing some unassuming maintenance in the orphan crushing machine. We won't get anywhere as long as people are operating their evil cog as normal. These protests won't do anything as long as it's being directed through the democrat pressure valve, as it is built in as a safety device in the orphan crushing machine.
Major civilian disobedience and unionizing is required across the board.
The only way we get there is by getting people out of their houses, away from controlled media, and aware that they're not alone. Without active, live, out-in-public protest, nobody will feel emboldened to take more radical action; they'll feel like a lone actor and probably not even start. Civil action en-masse comes first.
While media attention is often focused on actors acquiescing to Trump’s demands, in the streets the popular protest movement continues to push back against the administration with notable persistence over time.
And when they do, they need to be met by the same violence. It takes an awful lot to fight fascism, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but that is where USA is. Innocent people are going to die before it gets better.
But what is happening in Hong Kong is they come up with a slogan, which is translated as Do Not Split, which is, we know that some people are willing to be confrontational with riot police.
And when they are, that’s going to cost the state in terms of not only resources, but it’s going to cost the state in terms of political capital and support. And we know that there are some people who are not willing to do that. And we are going to abide by the protocol of Do Not Split, which means that we’re not going to criticize them openly, and they’re not going to criticize us openly.
If we’re the pacifists, we’re not going to have them criticize us for being sort of like, I don’t know, limpid or flaccid or not courageous or whatever. And we’re not going to criticize them for being more confrontational. And the thing is that the support is also tacit.
I think that peaceful and defiant protest are the anvil and hammer of social reform. Without each other, it is hard to change society into a more useful shape. These two wings are part of the same animal, and only work if they cooperate.
The Black Panthers were great, because they created social programs like feeding schoolchildren, while offering physical protection to the people under their care. We need Rainbow Panthers to help support the MLKs and Malcoms of our day.
It's important to note how the Black Panthers used "violence". There were very few incidents where they actually fired their guns, and when they did, they were arguably baited into doing it by the FBI and local cops.
Their best tactic was just hanging around with an AK on their back while a cop did their racial profiling thing to somebody else. They'd keep a book of laws handy and give the person advice from the sidelines. If they didn't have a gun, the cop would likely have found some pretext to arrest them and that'd be it. With a gun, the cop thinks twice and puts up with it. It wasn't there to actually be fired, but to make sure everyone behaved themselves.
This was so effective they changed California's open carry law to stop it. It's estimated that there were only around 100 Black Panthers at the time.
That is why I use the word "defiance". It is not violence, it is just a refusal to be bullied. We should put forth our own words to describe things, not let the media paint our movements in the light that they prefer.
non violent protests only go so far, they would be scared if magats are also doing it, because how trigger finger they are. i think the strike that was truley effective, is the one they quashed, the railroad workers, the us is entirely dependant on this. Having these tiny protests, comparetively to what EUROPEans are doing.
Non violence brings people together so that violence can be enacted in a directed, efficient, and useful manner. So the least amount of incidental harm can be caused to those it's not directed at. And those who it is directed at can see and feel it in ways that are the most impactful and visible.
Cause even if violence is enacted. If it's not see far and wide, then it is little more than the tantrum of a child easily swept into their room and kept invisible from the public.
If the protests were pointless, then why would trump bother to build up the military in cities? Seems to me that the military buildup is to discourage more protests, because they are not pointless.
If anything, you're arguing that the protests accomplished none of the goals of the protestors, and only managed to escalate and incite a response that was a "warning" that worse will come if we don't keep it up.
So... it still seems fucking pointless to me? Like for fucks sake, we're all just waiting for him to die of natural causes and hope that the coalition falls apart, doing a whole bunch of pointless shit until then because we all know that violence is the only way to remove him at this point.
Naive fucks. The people who support him are just as committed to keeping power.
Assuming one day of protest is the complete picture is what is comical. The Montgomery bus boycott started in 1955. The Civil Rights Act signed in 1965. One day is just part of the overall story of history. And having the largest protest be against Trump is part of our history now. It will take much more for that be a good story, but it is a good sign.
You don't have 10 years to work this out. Particularly when every media company is capitulating in advance. No Kings was not part of some ongoing movement. It was a weekend and it was as far as Americans are willing to go.
This take makes no sense. One of the largest days of protests in US history is a joke to you? It's a fundamental right of the citizens to protest and exercise this right.
Sure. And it accomplished nothing- if anything, it emboldened the far right who now know that they can accelerate their plans and AT BEST only be met with a “peaceful protest” on a Saturday (if the weather’s nice).
Meanwhile, while No Kings was happening, 4 members of democratic leadership were shot in their homes. They were racking up a body count while “the resistance” was congratulating itself for going outside and holding a sign on a weekend.
Even if a movement went all "blood and violence" it wouldn't be done in a day. What makes you so certain that something is useless just because it doesn't immediately solve everything?
It's the lack of follow up protests, the lack of figure heads setpping up to champion the cause.
It happened and then nothing. Sure there's small things here and there.
But functionally it was a good start and brought a lot of momentum. Which has promptly been squandered.
Who is our gandi, or MLK Jr, who's speaking out rallying more protests. Who's willing to actually turn those masses into something actually impactful instead of a history book factoid.
Yes. It's natural that participation will ebb and flow, that's why it's important for folks not to give up and say it was all useless after just one day. Having regular weekly events and a monthly "big" protest seems to be the strategy for maintaining momentum.
Escalation could also be useful - though of course that doesn't necessarily mean jumping to blood-and-violence, there are many other tactics that can be used (like the targeted boycotts, for example, or a general strike). Even more "passive" things like voter education (where polls are, how to register, etc.) can add up over time.
You aren't that far removed from U.S. citizens and your shit stinks too.
Canada gets most of its food from the U.S. . 2) Laughing at us means laughing at yourself, you're now positioned squarely between the U.S. and Russia — and the U.S. definitely controls your southern border. Did I mention that the U.S. is where you get most of your food and that the U.S. has military dominance in the region? How many Canadians do you think will starve before any legitimate help arrives?
There are many emotions to be had about this, schadenfreude has to be the most intellectually devoid one. My, still very much a child, nephew could understand that.
Non-violence has it's place. But marches alone will not change anything. What the US needs is actual disruptions (i.e strikes and sabotages) as well as a credible radical flank
What US needs is some coherent political movement from anyone but monsters. All the disruptions in the world mean shit if there is no proper followup from a group of people who has their shit together. If literal magical aliens come tomorrow and organise a total proper strike that will change absolutely nothing because there is no group that can do demands and see that they are met. American left doesn't exist, and those small groups that exist are unified only and exclusively by their visceral hatred of liberals and smaller but still visceral disdain of other small groups of American left, and American liberals are stunned and terrified and can't do shit.
The protests can in theory let people form those needed connections, but doesn't seem to be doing it quickly enough.
Protesting needs to evolve. Amazing turnout, but there needs to be a goal. Something like, let's cancel Amazon Prime. It's needs to be attainable. Boycott everything day is dumb. How about move your money to a credit union day?
Basically, people with clever signs marching on a predetermined, law enforcement lined, route until they want to open the roads up to traffic again, having gained zero ground aside from the personal fulfillment of being able to say I did my part to force change !
Meanwhile, nothing changed and gets worse every day.
People also need to have community to engage in collective action. Do you not understand that the things you want to happen cannot happen without the social foundation?
156 Comments
loaf@sh.itjust.works · 121 pts · 358d
Now if we could just repeat that success consistently.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world · 61 pts · 358d
Coordinate another date, and I'll participate in that one too.
SoupBrick@pawb.social · 86 pts · 358d
Next one is Sept 1st.
https://www.fiftyfifty.one/
redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 34 pts · 358d
If NYC residents could do one on 9/11 that would get some solid coverage. Fill the memorial. Remind people Saudi Arabia is a part owner of this regime with Russia.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 358d
Putin, the House of Saud, and Netanyahu all have serious hooks into the orangeboi regime - and to a lesser but still significant extent, the vast majority of the entire US political apparatus and media sphere.
Fredselfish@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 358d
Signed up but didn't like idea of giving my name and email to do so.
SoupBrick@pawb.social · 19 pts · 358d
No need to sign up. I sure as hell don't. The less data out there on me the better IMO.
TachyonTele@piefed.social · 7 pts · 358d
Then don't to do so.
418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 358d
Thank you for saying it. I’m not putting my name on a list, but I’ll certainly participate. I bet we aren’t the only ones. Whatever the signup count, it’s probably at least double that willing to also take action.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 358d
No Kings III
loaf@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 358d
Thank you!
Flames5123@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 358d
I don’t like how two of the protests they’ve scheduled have been on holiday weekends when people are traveling or have big plans and cannot safely participate (Easter weekend and now Labor Day weekend). The No Kings protest was huge partly because it wasn’t on a holiday weekend. It seems very counter intuitive to have them on holiday weekends.
Jerb322@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 358d
There's not a single one listed for Wisconsin?!?
threshold_dweller@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 357d
Be the change you wish to see in the world.
Fondots@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 358d
The fifty fifty one movement has been organizing protests usually about monthly and you can find them pretty easily on their site
Next widespread one I see planned is 9/1 for Labor Day.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 7 pts · 358d
Next time on a weekday, please.
timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 357d
Yeah preferably the first Tuesday of November. Maybe we can give that a try.
kingofras@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 356d
This guy Fawkes
leadore@lemmy.world · 113 pts · 358d
I hate reading the comments of all the capitulators here, carrying water for the regime by trying to discourage people with this constant drumbeat that protests are useless and ineffective. Bullshit. Are you magats? We've seen examples in history where protests and the movements they enabled have brought down those in power.
Protests are necessary but not sufficient in themselves. They're how resistance starts and builds, not how it ends. Did you ever think it might take time to form the momentum to get to a critical mass, especially after decades of complacency? Real momentum and effective action was never going to happen immediately or in just weeks, or even in less than eight months which is where we are now. There are already people grouping and doing things other than protests (iykyk) and will be more, made possible by the support and cover that large numbers participating provide.
Troops are being moved into cities and they will keep being sent to more cities. Blue cities. There's one reason for that--they want to intimidate people from turning out and use force to stop those who do. trump keeps saying so and plans are being implemented.
Point is, you may think it's all useless and ineffective, but the regime obviously doesn't. Why do you want to help them? If you think it's hopeless, fine--stay home and doom scroll, but stop trying to dissuade others.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 43 pts · 358d
Which is important. Make them want to cover every city in America. The problem for them is that they can't. There aren't enough regular troops, National Guard, and ICE agents put together to make it work. They'll be spread too thin.
That really highlights the importance of protests. If it was just New York it would fail. If it was just Chicago it would fail. If it were just LA it would fail. If we signal that we're all going to work together on this, they can't possibly do it.
tonytins@pawb.social · 20 pts · 358d
I wish I could sticky this.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 357d
I agree. The negativity in this forum has utility beyond providing a stupid counterpoint. It also saturates attention and screenspace in long threads of people arguing nonsense. The goal is disruption, and in a space far from corporate control like Reddit, yet somewhat under-moderated, it's alarmingly effective. At worst, there's an acutual playbook for this exact thing.
angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com · 7 pts · 358d
Trump could get overthrown tomorrow and Lemmy Europeans would find a way to bitch about it
sexy_peach@feddit.org · 7 pts · 358d
Is it Europeans? I thought the US left is way more puritanical than us
nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 358d
A ton of Europeans here hold the belief anything less than storming the street and shooting people isn't a worthy way to protest in America and they will tell you as much.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 358d
Not really, personally I and a lot of Europeans hold the belief that in order for anything to be done you actually need to be doing those things. Sorry I can't share your happiness about a bunch of people walking around the street that one time, while your child rapist in chief rapes both you and the rest of the world.
Don't like criticism of your inaction, actually do something about it.
KMAMURI@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 357d
Not just Europeans on this team. Watching from Canada and being told nothing can be done but a street march on a sunny Saturday while our own governing schmucks start instituting laws to appease and move our country toward fascism on the lead of the fuckers south of us, is god damn terrifying.
I won't be silent about it either. About 'murica or Canada. 'muricuns are letting a fascist dictator control them and affect lots of others around the world. Canadians are allowing our PM to do the same just much slower and with more smiles and handshakes.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 357d
Okay, so how many people have you killed to advance your political position?
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 357d
It's a bit telling that the only way to advance your political position you can think of is killing people.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 356d
That was your stance buddy. I'm just trying to find out if your a hypocrite or a murderer.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 358d
Yeah, probably. They've been suppressed for so long that they're itching to use violent tactics when they don't really understand how violence is a careful, strategic tool for the left.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 358d
Damn those Europeans, always bitching about Trump being overthrown. Well, he isn't overthrown actually, instead he has more and more power by the day and Americans don't do anything effective about it. And those pesky Europeans keep bitching about things that happening instead of being happy about imaginary things that aren't happening.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 357d
They think that going out and shooting Republicans will help. Because of course the ones with control over the military will be easily brought down by randos with guns.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 357d
Depends on the ones you are shooting. If you kill the 80 year old Republican who has barely any cash? No it won't do shit. If you snipe Charlie Kirk or a senator, then yeah cause it breaks the illusion of their immunity.
Violence is a tool and much like any tool you need to know how to use it. Taking out the propaganda welps and the money movers would be a good first step. It's also a lot harder to work against if done with variable tactics since asymmetrical warfare is a bitch to work against.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 357d
If done in a well-organized strategic manner, agreed! But somehow I don't think that's how it would go down.
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 357d
You don't have to be well-organized nor strategic. Being chaotic and uncaught often works. I listen a lot to Behind the Bastards and Lions Led by Donkeys. It has given me the impression that effectiveness of a given behavior is a horseshoe, where the ends of the shoe have greater impact than a balanced style.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 357d
That word is doing a LOT of heavy lifting. But I agree. If only it were easy to do.
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 357d
Surprisingly, it happens more often than one expects. Just listen to the podcasts I mentioned, all sorts of people, good and bad...usually the bad, get away with being weird in all the ways. Audacity is bit of a cheat code, because most people don't want to disrupt their daily life. This cedes agency to people who do things.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 357d
Only need the organization level of a WW2 resistance cell or an IRA cell. Squad level is more than large enough to execute effective operations on a strategic level so long as said cells aren't entirely singular, 5 cells each with 5 people for example even when working independently could probably bring a cities infrastructure to its knees let alone kill random politicians and their buddies.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 357d
Here's hopin'!
Schmoo@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 357d
Chill with the fedposting. You know you're not actually anonymous here, right? You're putting yourself at risk. People have had the FBI knocking on their door for less.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 357d
Okay and? Id tell a fed I want to fill the reflection pool with the corpses of every member of the legislature, executive, and judicial. They'd probably dismiss as a non actionable pretty damned fast since white dude from redneck land is probably a pretty damned common thing to hear this shit from.
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 57 pts · 357d
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 357d
Nope. That option disappeared on November 5, 2024.
You cannot allow fascists to have total control of a government and then expect to vote your way back to normality.
Lots of people are going to have to die to end this. And we'll probably go through a prolonged period of a decline of our quality of life before that happens. Then a prolonged period of recovery. And it could have easily been avoided if Americans had pulled their heads out of their asses and rubbed a couple brain cells together.
Buckle up kids.
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 357d
Agreed, but this has been brewing for over 18 years. Today's MAGA were yesteryear's Tea Party members. They liked to wear funny "patriotic" hats and discuss conspiracy theory level politics. Easily guided and basically brainless, if you hold up a picture of a liberal they would run at it screaming profanities like some weird carrot on a stick. They ALMOST destroyed the Republican party with that craziness ... but the party just steered into it and now rides the wave.
Postimo@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 357d
It disappeared before 2024.
No_Ones_Slick_Like_Gaston@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 357d
Traitors and child fuckers.
drhodl@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 357d
child rapists. FIFY
ameancow@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 357d
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 357d
A lot of people's limits are pretty much already reached. Some of us are old, tired, and just not that interested in keeping the greed machine running.
Your average Joe may not grab a rifle and run at the illegal National Guards that have been deployed or do a Luigi... but if those average Joe's happen to see someone else do somwthing like that it will be good odds that they won't remember what the person looked like or which way they ran after they did it.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 357d
1 and 2 completely agree, but 3 is quitter talk. We don't need any of that.
vogo13@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 357d
Who said anything about quitting?
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 357d
Pick up a history book.
You don't vote fascists out.
chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 357d
To be fair, we did vote him out once before.
However, I doubt they'll allow it to happen again.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · -1 pts · 357d
that was due to a fluke and technicality, that is covid.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 357d
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 357d
No
ameancow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 357d
MBech@feddit.dk · 2 pts · 357d
If history has taught us anything, it's that the porn always wins.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 357d
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 357d
It's not quitter talk. It is opening a discussion for a workaround.
StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world · 48 pts · 358d
sad_detective_man@leminal.space · 13 pts · 358d
the media complex has gotten more adept at burying these things. biggest protest in US history isn't going to be what brings change anymore
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 358d
How you know it's effective
GuyFawkes@midwest.social · 44 pts · 358d
And we’re all reaping the benefits of it, right? RIGHT???
Non-violent protest only works against those who have a conscience, with is NOT MAGAts.
418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works · 25 pts · 358d
I humbly disagree. Protests can have a massive economic impact if they reach critical mass. Acts of violence also need a critical mass, but convincing people to protest is far easier than convincing them to commit acts of violence.
Don’t go to work, block all traffic, don’t pay taxes, stop spending, attack all opposition. With enough participation, we can crash the economy in a single day and regain control within a week. Getting people to do what is necessary en masse is the hard part. Things will have to get worse before we get there.
girsaysdoom@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 358d
Its all about the disruption. But protesting isn't the only thing that people should be doing. Community building is just as important if not more so.
418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 357d
100%
s@piefed.world · 10 pts · 358d
I do realize your username is literally GuyFawkes. Nevertheless, when somebody is doing wrong, the first approach should be to use reason and empathy as a point of argument. If that fails, then work to starve the oppressor of what they seek to exploit until they find that pursuit to be no longer in their interests. If that fails, then use whatever means necessary to ensure oppression ends and human rights that were once willingly suppressed instead become guaranteed.
untorquer@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 358d
Ok but step 1 has been thoroughly explored and this administration didn't delay their agenda for a second. Step 2 requires massive legal reform tandem with a functional judiciary, given that profit, capital, and power consolidation are what they seek. Unfortunately they're winning that battle as the judiciary and legal system are only degrading despite public outcry.
s@piefed.world · 7 pts · 358d
Oh yes, I am aware. The person I was replying to had implied that step 2 didn’t exist at all so I was making a more broad statement.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 358d
Did you go? Did you talk to anyone when you were there? Have you spoken with them since? If your answer is no, then you're just a loud bystander, who gives a fuck what you think. If all you know how to do is blow things up, then STFU and do it. Otherwise, try actually participating.
reddit_sux@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 358d
Non violent protests might take time but it will give good results. Even against violent oppressors.
Violent protests might feel direct, might show results immediately. But those might not be what you would like. Violence only begets violence.
untorquer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 358d
watches protest footage "yeah that cop clearly shot the reporter from behind in self defense"
... Among a billion other examples
INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 358d
How do the violent ones go?
krashmo@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 358d
Let's find out
lectricleopard@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 358d
I heard there was one in Boston a while back. Started a war.
Signtist@bookwyr.me · 8 pts · 358d
Well, the country was founded by one, so there's that.
SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one · 5 pts · 358d
Better than sitting around with a sign. Things actually happen.
swearengen@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 358d
Every country is founded on and survives via violence.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 357d
And nothing changed.
Fascists do not care about protests. Never have. Never will.
Fascists also don't allow fair elections if they can prevent them.
This is why it was so important for Americans to pull their heads out of their asses and make the obvious choice in November, instead of giving total control to fascists, making it WAY more likely for the next election to be fraudulent. Americans failed.
I'm going to let everyone reading this come to the obvious conclusion for what will end up needing to be done at this point.
MBech@feddit.dk · 9 pts · 357d
I'm gonna guess violent revolution with a side of political cleansing?
BussyGyatt@feddit.org · 2 pts · 357d
With entrenched long-term resistance against the occupying force.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 357d
And I got chastised for insulting people who are intolerant, both to tankies and fascists. These bullies only understand and respond to force. Give them what they want and they will wish to have stopped.
BussyGyatt@feddit.org · 31 pts · 358d
peaceful protest is allowed by the constitution because it is ineffective
a riot is the language of the unheard
nobody in the world has ever won their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people oppressing them
UltraMagnus@startrek.website · 21 pts · 358d
One of the factors in whether a nonviolent resistance movement can succeed or not is whether any state forces end up shifting loyalty. "Appealing to the moral sense of the people oppressing them" may be false if you're just talking about whoever's at the top, but it absolutely is a factor for the day-to-day bureaucrats and security forces. Nonviolent campaigns are more likely to cause these sorts of changes (particularly when violent crackdowns against nonviolent resistance backfires).
Consider the success of the following movements:
There's several other cases of this happening over the past century, but I hope you get my point - nobody's appealing to the guy on the throne, they're appealing to all the other cogs in the machine.
MrTrono@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 358d
And awesome to see how effective it was, glad we got the regimen to rethink its policies... Oh wait they doubled down.
tate@lemmy.sdf.org · 70 pts · 358d
What are you trying to accomplish here?
Everyone else: next one is September 1st.
https://www.fiftyfifty.one/
PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 358d
I think he’s correct in stating this administration won’t care if we protest or how large it is. What we hope happens is that the protests get more momentum amongst the politically inert. That momentum could build us up to a general strike which would have more influence once the capitalists bottom line gets impacted. Maybe. IDK. This all sucks.
MrTrono@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 358d
I've been to all the 50501 protests in my area as a show of support, but I'm not trying to accomplish anything. I'm just of the opinion that protests without action accomplish nothing. I am all into exercises, some real civil disobedience.
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 358d
Our great grandparents armed themselves and took over the factory floors. We need some of that energy.
faythofdragons@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 357d
This is the problem. Co-conspirators don't grow on trees, and protests are for networking because online chatter is too obvious. If you're going to protests, but not trying to accomplish anything by doing it, you're doing it wrong.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 357d
Mr Trump thanks you for your support.
MrTrono@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 357d
Very welcome where do I collect my medal of freedom
AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social · 37 pts · 358d
That's why there needs to be a clear line that people know exists between performative protest and concrete protest.
For anyone confused:
Performative protests, like the No Kings protests, serve to:
Concrete protests actually delay or stop the bad thing in question (e.g. blocking exits to ICE facilities)
A lot of people are hoping No Kings and similar protests will stop Trump. They won't. Of course they won't. But you can bet there's a lot more people donating to charities that either legally fight the administration's actions, or disrupt fascist policies on the ground, and a lot of people end up breaking off from these more liberal protests to later go to more concrete ones.
They're not worthless, but nothing beats direct, concrete action.
https://beautifultrouble.org/toolbox/tool/dont-expect-a-concrete-outcome-from-a-symbolic-action
leadore@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 357d
This is a very good way to explain it. We need both kinds, both are important.
GuyFawkes@midwest.social · -19 pts · 358d
Performative protests are INCREASING my hopelessness and despair.
“WOW, biggest protest in the history of the U.S.? And did fuck all? Welp, if that can’t do it, nothing can. We’re fucked.”
AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social · 38 pts · 358d
Maybe it's just me, but seeing regular ass people who were previously entirely disinterested in politics start marching in the street, actively educating themselves about the political landscape, and even seeing some break off into actual blockades of ICE facilities gives me a lot more hope than seeing people do nothing in the first place.
You have to remember, the average person mostly just cares about their family and personal financial circumstances, doesn't take risks, and just reposts platitudes on facebook from time to time.
This is an improvement from the status quo, and any progress toward a better direction is good. I guarantee you, you will see many more people engaging in concrete actions as time goes on, because these sorts of protests help spur people into further action. Hell, we've already seen that happening.
These protests are gateways to concrete actions, not something that replaces them.
cecilkorik@piefed.ca · 10 pts · 358d
So double down right back at them. What are you doing to stop what's happening? How else should we disrupt the regime's efforts? What do you recommend? Or do you think shitting on people's efforts is helpful somehow and will lead to a good outcome?
Signtist@bookwyr.me · 5 pts · 358d
My mom was a huge speeder. She almost never went below 10 over the limit. Any time someone told her something along the lines of "The sign says 60, and you're going 80." she'd respond along the lines of "Well, good thing signs can't stop me then, huh?"
She'd always slow down if she thought she saw a cop, though.
I always think about that when people talk about protests as if they're the final step and not just the warning before a revolt. If you want self-centered people, like the ones running our government, to listen to your signs, you need them to fear what comes afterward if they don't.
cecilkorik@piefed.ca · 6 pts · 358d
Interesting analogy, and a great point. I think it's a lot like poker. They place their bets, we place our bets. They raise the stakes, we raise the stakes. Eventually one of us is either going to fold or we're both going to end up going all in, and then we'll finally end up seeing what our hands end up being once that happens. Are any of us prepared to fold on this? I'm not. Are they prepared to fold? I don't know. Are they bluffing or are they holding all the right cards? I don't know. If it comes to that, I guess we'll find out.
Signtist@bookwyr.me · 4 pts · 358d
That's a great analogy as well, though with the stakes as high as they are, I don't think either side is likely to fold. I think we'll have to show our hands and see who wins. I'd love to hear that the government caved in to our demands and everything is fine, but if that doesn't happen we need to understand that our work isn't done until we get what we need, regardless of whether or not they decide to give it to us willingly.
cecilkorik@piefed.ca · 1 pts · 356d
I don't think their hand is really that strong, as much as they've been trying to convince people it is. Their media is powerful, the image they project is powerful. They have convinced us to fear of a massively powerful military-backed surveillance state, as we should, but is that really something they can achieve? Only with a lot more apathy and cowing to authority than they're actually going to get, I think. Americans (and even the military is made up of Americans) are an unruly bunch at the best of times, and the powers that be might think they have enough money and enough security in place to protect them as their popular support dwindles and the MAGA wave they rode to power begins to realize that these authoritarians are not giving them back "muh freedumbs" like they promised but are in fact taking more of them away. As the famous quote goes, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." The regime has been ignoring and laughing at protests like 50501 and No Kings. They will have to fight eventually. Would the current regime survive more LA riots? Vietnam war protests? Another million man march? Probably. That's obviously what they're preparing for, as they should. But how far are they actually going to be able to go? And how far will the resistance go? I agree, we'll see once the cards are all on the table. But I think there's still plenty of room for hope that the actual future isn't going to be as bleak as it may seem right now.
Kinperor@lemmy.ca · 28 pts · 358d
It's good to see people politically animated, but these protests are largely 'controlled opposition'. It's an emergency venting valve where the people's frustration is channeled into a meaningless whistle.
The whole system is rotted. The democrats are not fighting for the small folk at all. If anything, a branch of the party is probably relieved that the republicans moved the overton window so far right.
Real change will require actual upheaval. You can't vote or protest your way out of this shit. Major civilian disobedience and unionizing is required across the board. There are some of us (working class) that are doing some unassuming maintenance in the orphan crushing machine. We won't get anywhere as long as people are operating their evil cog as normal. These protests won't do anything as long as it's being directed through the democrat pressure valve, as it is built in as a safety device in the orphan crushing machine.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 357d
The only way we get there is by getting people out of their houses, away from controlled media, and aware that they're not alone. Without active, live, out-in-public protest, nobody will feel emboldened to take more radical action; they'll feel like a lone actor and probably not even start. Civil action en-masse comes first.
Kinperor@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 357d
No one disputes the need to get people in the street. I agree with you there.
My cautionary tale is that turning to democrats or other mainstream ""resistance"" is a trap meant to deflate popular morale.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 357d
Im not alone? Thank goodness, my rent is coming up in 19 days and its the vast majority of my income. Its gonna be nice to have help paying it.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 358d
History teaches us when protests and marches go unacknowledged riots and civil disobedience follow
SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 358d
No lie, that's some good news.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 27 pts · 358d
Everyone had a good time, then went home and nothing was changed.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 358d
MehBlah@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 358d
Eventually the fascist will infiltrate and incite violence so they can move in and kill.
MBech@feddit.dk · 2 pts · 357d
And when they do, they need to be met by the same violence. It takes an awful lot to fight fascism, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but that is where USA is. Innocent people are going to die before it gets better.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 357d
Do not split.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/42969194
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 23 pts · 358d
I think that peaceful and defiant protest are the anvil and hammer of social reform. Without each other, it is hard to change society into a more useful shape. These two wings are part of the same animal, and only work if they cooperate.
The Black Panthers were great, because they created social programs like feeding schoolchildren, while offering physical protection to the people under their care. We need Rainbow Panthers to help support the MLKs and Malcoms of our day.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 23 pts · 358d
It's important to note how the Black Panthers used "violence". There were very few incidents where they actually fired their guns, and when they did, they were arguably baited into doing it by the FBI and local cops.
Their best tactic was just hanging around with an AK on their back while a cop did their racial profiling thing to somebody else. They'd keep a book of laws handy and give the person advice from the sidelines. If they didn't have a gun, the cop would likely have found some pretext to arrest them and that'd be it. With a gun, the cop thinks twice and puts up with it. It wasn't there to actually be fired, but to make sure everyone behaved themselves.
This was so effective they changed California's open carry law to stop it. It's estimated that there were only around 100 Black Panthers at the time.
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 357d
That is why I use the word "defiance". It is not violence, it is just a refusal to be bullied. We should put forth our own words to describe things, not let the media paint our movements in the light that they prefer.
ToadOfHypnosis@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 357d
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 357d
non violent protests only go so far, they would be scared if magats are also doing it, because how trigger finger they are. i think the strike that was truley effective, is the one they quashed, the railroad workers, the us is entirely dependant on this. Having these tiny protests, comparetively to what EUROPEans are doing.
seralth@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 357d
Non violence brings people together so that violence can be enacted in a directed, efficient, and useful manner. So the least amount of incidental harm can be caused to those it's not directed at. And those who it is directed at can see and feel it in ways that are the most impactful and visible.
Cause even if violence is enacted. If it's not see far and wide, then it is little more than the tantrum of a child easily swept into their room and kept invisible from the public.
Witchfire@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 358d
Largest days of protest so far
KingPorkChop@lemmy.ca · 17 pts · 357d
Good for the USA.
They had a moment, made funny signs, took some pictures, felt good about themselves.
Now Trump is rolling a military buildup in the country's capitol. We all know how this is going to end.
Good job. Pat yourselves on the back. You achieved fucking nothing.
OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 357d
If the protests were pointless, then why would trump bother to build up the military in cities? Seems to me that the military buildup is to discourage more protests, because they are not pointless.
bold_atlas@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 357d
Was he not going to do that anyway?
S0ck@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 357d
This is the stupidest take.
If anything, you're arguing that the protests accomplished none of the goals of the protestors, and only managed to escalate and incite a response that was a "warning" that worse will come if we don't keep it up.
So... it still seems fucking pointless to me? Like for fucks sake, we're all just waiting for him to die of natural causes and hope that the coalition falls apart, doing a whole bunch of pointless shit until then because we all know that violence is the only way to remove him at this point.
Naive fucks. The people who support him are just as committed to keeping power.
WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca · -9 pts · 357d
Glad someone else is saying it.
No Kings was a joke.
SupahRevs@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 357d
Assuming one day of protest is the complete picture is what is comical. The Montgomery bus boycott started in 1955. The Civil Rights Act signed in 1965. One day is just part of the overall story of history. And having the largest protest be against Trump is part of our history now. It will take much more for that be a good story, but it is a good sign.
WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 357d
You don't have 10 years to work this out. Particularly when every media company is capitulating in advance. No Kings was not part of some ongoing movement. It was a weekend and it was as far as Americans are willing to go.
SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 357d
This take makes no sense. One of the largest days of protests in US history is a joke to you? It's a fundamental right of the citizens to protest and exercise this right.
WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 357d
Sure. And it accomplished nothing- if anything, it emboldened the far right who now know that they can accelerate their plans and AT BEST only be met with a “peaceful protest” on a Saturday (if the weather’s nice).
Meanwhile, while No Kings was happening, 4 members of democratic leadership were shot in their homes. They were racking up a body count while “the resistance” was congratulating itself for going outside and holding a sign on a weekend.
UltraMagnus@startrek.website · 4 pts · 357d
Even if a movement went all "blood and violence" it wouldn't be done in a day. What makes you so certain that something is useless just because it doesn't immediately solve everything?
seralth@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 357d
It's the lack of follow up protests, the lack of figure heads setpping up to champion the cause.
It happened and then nothing. Sure there's small things here and there.
But functionally it was a good start and brought a lot of momentum. Which has promptly been squandered.
Who is our gandi, or MLK Jr, who's speaking out rallying more protests. Who's willing to actually turn those masses into something actually impactful instead of a history book factoid.
UltraMagnus@startrek.website · 2 pts · 357d
I disagree with the idea that some "great leader" would be helpful and not a liability. Or the idea that there aren't already leaders in the movement.
WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 357d
Are you implying that what happened at No Kings was, if not escalating, even ONGOING?
UltraMagnus@startrek.website · 3 pts · 357d
Yes. It's natural that participation will ebb and flow, that's why it's important for folks not to give up and say it was all useless after just one day. Having regular weekly events and a monthly "big" protest seems to be the strategy for maintaining momentum.
Escalation could also be useful - though of course that doesn't necessarily mean jumping to blood-and-violence, there are many other tactics that can be used (like the targeted boycotts, for example, or a general strike). Even more "passive" things like voter education (where polls are, how to register, etc.) can add up over time.
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 357d
Lemmy Canadians have a real problem when it comes to being completely self centered assholes.
You aren't that far removed from U.S. citizens and your shit stinks too.
WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 357d
Yes, getting defensive online is the best possible use of your energy right now.
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 357d
Merely stating facts.
KingPorkChop@lemmy.ca · -3 pts · 357d
We've been friends with the US for years.
Then they hired a felon, pedophile, rapist to shit in our poutine.
I'm perfectly fine being called a self centred asshole for being mad about this and laughing as the USA eats it's own head.
Have a nice day.
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 357d
There are many emotions to be had about this, schadenfreude has to be the most intellectually devoid one. My, still very much a child, nephew could understand that.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 358d
great
now do it again, but really show that you mean business. in a way that the fascists will understand and be scared of
k0e3@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 358d
Sweet, keep up brave Americans!
chosensilence@pawb.social · 8 pts · 358d
and nothing will change. didn’t they say this about Occupy?
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 358d
Good, and we will do it again and again!
i_ben_fine@midwest.social · 8 pts · 357d
I went to an anti-genocide march that day and we were hoping to link up with the No Kings marchers and combine forces, but they went home early.
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 357d
And yet it seemed to change nothing
lmdnw@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 358d
itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 18 pts · 358d
Non-violence has it's place. But marches alone will not change anything. What the US needs is actual disruptions (i.e strikes and sabotages) as well as a credible radical flank
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 358d
What US needs is some coherent political movement from anyone but monsters. All the disruptions in the world mean shit if there is no proper followup from a group of people who has their shit together. If literal magical aliens come tomorrow and organise a total proper strike that will change absolutely nothing because there is no group that can do demands and see that they are met. American left doesn't exist, and those small groups that exist are unified only and exclusively by their visceral hatred of liberals and smaller but still visceral disdain of other small groups of American left, and American liberals are stunned and terrified and can't do shit.
The protests can in theory let people form those needed connections, but doesn't seem to be doing it quickly enough.
BB84@mander.xyz · 6 pts · 358d
name a better combo
SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 358d
501c organizations and feds
fox2263@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 358d
Needs to be done weekly
Randomgal@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 357d
If it only had had any effect lmao
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 358d
is there even one protest for the release of the files, and the fact that MISS "kungfu coordinator" just had a work release program.
zhouha@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 357d
I think it's still Trump's conspiracy
BigTrout75@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 358d
Protesting needs to evolve. Amazing turnout, but there needs to be a goal. Something like, let's cancel Amazon Prime. It's needs to be attainable. Boycott everything day is dumb. How about move your money to a credit union day?
unabart@sh.itjust.works · -3 pts · 358d
Basically, people with clever signs marching on a predetermined, law enforcement lined, route until they want to open the roads up to traffic again, having gained zero ground aside from the personal fulfillment of being able to say I did my part to force change !
Meanwhile, nothing changed and gets worse every day.
MangioneDontMiss@lemmy.ca · -9 pts · 358d
rbos@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 358d
Both are needed.
MangioneDontMiss@lemmy.ca · -10 pts · 358d
rbos@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 358d
Protesting demonstrates that people are available to be radicalized. It's the first step.
MangioneDontMiss@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 357d
rbos@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 357d
And yet they need to be visible.
MangioneDontMiss@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 357d
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 358d
People also need to have community to engage in collective action. Do you not understand that the things you want to happen cannot happen without the social foundation?
y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -4 pts · 357d
Too bad it didn't work.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · -7 pts · 358d
Awesome. And what did it do?
Oh yeah, nothing
Any protest will not do anything unless it becomes violent or if it doesn't stop until change has been enacted