Ooh, I have a dukes of hazzard model ive had for years because I didnt want to throw away a perfectly good model, and I also didnt want to make a racist shitbox. This is a solid option.
I kind of want to name it "Northern Aggression", and find some good small pride stickers and rainbow pinstripe....and maybe an antifascist action sticker for the hood?
Well I'm going to end up going down an ADHD rabbit hole of indecision on this for a while....
There is room in this world an alternate universe Fast and Furious franchise where it's nothing but buck fucking wild meme muscle cars driven by a montle crew of drag queens and furries, doing lefty adventure shit.
And it would demand a mighty stable of queer as fuck muscle cars, going from the subtle and prim and not quite proper, to rainbow pinstripe Trans-Ams that lives drives into the backend of a rolling base modeled after Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
I was recently watching a few episodes of Dukes of Hazzard and them Duke boys is woke. Despite the flag issue, they were very against bigotry of any kind.
I forget what MTV car makeover show this was, but it had a version of that car with the confederate flag on the roof and all ... except the flag used the colors of the Jamaican flag.
Yeah, the variations online range from a sparkling denim blue to navy, but agreed, should be a deep navy with a subtle sparkle like the tears of ten thousand slave owners.
It's no longer just a matter of ending a couple hundred rich asshole families who we already beat in war. That was the ounce of prevention. It's so much messier now.
The parts after the war. I got my timeline backward. He was a big advocate of the ethnic cleansing of the Sioux, and other tribes, in which he participated to a limited extent.
No debate about destroying the infrastructure that was upholding slavery. If anything, I think the slaves should have gotten all the assets of their former masters and the US should have gone through with reconstruction.
Funny story. Back in the day, Massachusetts found a loophole- there was a case in my town, where a couple slave catchers showed up, and grabbed the wrong guy- the son of a buisness owner and prominent black family.
They were immediately besset upon by a mob, and got thrown in jail. There were riots, and people threatening to burn down the jail ( a 1room shack with just the 2 slavers in it)
When they were brought in for arraignment, judge decided on a summary judgment, claiming it was too dangerous for them, to either be released or held in custody for a trial.
He opted to impress them I to service, on a whaling ship, which was a 90% black crew.
Yep, he litterally made them slaves ri a black man. They were both 'lost at sea' within 2 months.
This is like "it's turtles all the way down" except it's fucked-up legal situations all the way down.
Legal slavery 👉 Legal slave-hunting 👉 Caught the wrong guy 👉 Threat of mob justice 👉 No trial 👉 Impressed to service 👉 Legal whale hunting 👉 Almost certainly murdered at sea
At a certain point, the word “terrorist” becomes less threatening. We are currently at the stage where my niece refusing to pick up her toys makes her a terrorist.
I’m not saying this is the only place and I’m DEFINITELY not promoting it because t-shirt scams based on memes are well established. But it is interesting to look at.
If its a hand applied silkscreen to a quality shirt then costs are high, you have gotten used to cheap Chinese shirts and slave wages making shirts cheap.
Yeah, a cheap printing shirt from like Gildan can be found at Michael's STARTING at 20 dollars. 20 dollars (less maybe, if they can get wholesale prices) and you're already eating well into any profit from a 42 dollar shirt after printing and shipping.
Is that USD? They’re significantly cheaper on their website, I only see $20 for odd sizes like 3XL. But yeah, the price of the shirt itself and printing is just one factor, because breaking even is basically doing it for free. Artists gotta eat too.
Then don’t buy it. If you just want something to cover up, go to a thrift store. If you want a shirt with specific art on it you either pay what the artist asks, make it yourself, or go without.
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death
I am offended because there is something that looks like a swiss flag. It probably has another symbolism, but I don't like my country being associated to the KKK
you think that's annoying? Spain is tired of telling everyone that those aren't klan hoods and they had them from before the US even started considering racism.
I mean i think it's pretty rad and i would wear it.
But because he said he's in trouble, i assume he's still in school. And it is a shirt of a dead guy hanging...
Yeah I came to the same conclusion, either a student or at a workplace, either way depicting someone getting hung isn't gonna fly even if it were Hitler himself. Cool shirt though.
I want to work on HR to call them in, then high five then and let them hang out instead of having to work, bring drinks too. then ask them to look sad when they leave my office
I.... Kind of see what they're getting at. And it's not that their argument is without merit, it's just.... That argument makes you seem like a racist asshole.
Ignoring the hate crime context of it all, the image depicts someone who has been executed, at it's basic level.
The idea of having someone walk around with a depiction of an execution on their apparel... I kind of get.
However, given the context of the image, being who has been executed, it's hard to make the argument that walking around showing the execution of a person depicted as one of the most notorious hate groups ever, is bad because it's a depiction of an execution, without also implying that you don't want kkk members to be hanged, and you're therefore sympathetic to them.
That's a whole "yikes" from me. I certainly wouldn't stop anyone from wearing this, and hell, if someone links it, I may just buy one myself and wear that around. My "yikes" is for anyone wanting to walk the line that they somehow are not sympathetic to the kkk, while still taking issue with this shirt.
I want to buy this shirt. I also want one of a Nazi.
Along what your saying I remember shirts of Muammar Gaddafi when he was killed and also remember Saddam Hussein shirts in not very flattering depictios. People who dislike this shirt I wonder how they felt/feel about the ones I mention?
Oh right, I thought you were impying the t-shirt wearer liked the KKK or something. So what if some fascists get offended though? Offense is their whole schtick
I mean, the lynching of innocent people as part of an ongoing terror campaign against a racial minority was definitely a big problem with it. There’s a reason people don’t care as much about outlaws getting hung or shot in the old west with a bare bones trial.
Unlike in the old west, with their trials followed by a hanging, typically people who are lynched are not given a trial. That’s why it is called extrajudicial.
Being okay with extrajudicial murder as long as it happens to the right people is immoral.
It’s immoral when the KKK does it to minorities just like it is immoral when anyone decides that their enemies don’t deserve due process before being murdered.
The law is not an authority on morality. While slavery was legal it was still immoral. To use the law as your guide for what is right and what is wrong will have you doing/saying awful things. Things should be illegal because they're bad, they shouldn't be bad because they're illegal. The moral problem with killing a Klansman (if there is one) is not that it's done extra judicially.
"With or without [the law], good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes [the law]." - Steven Weinberg. He was talking about religion, but it's really religious law that causes good people to do evil.
110 Comments
JeSuisUnHombre@lemmy.zip · 213 pts · 326d
I'm offended. He should've said "to whom"
Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world · 163 pts · 326d
I'm sidestepping some parts of his past for obvious reasons, but you get the idea.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 62 pts · 326d
My favorite version of the same
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 31 pts · 326d
Ooh, I have a dukes of hazzard model ive had for years because I didnt want to throw away a perfectly good model, and I also didnt want to make a racist shitbox. This is a solid option.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 326d
Oh hell yes, please do this. There's a lot of options for subtle changes if you search images of "general grant car."
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 22 pts · 326d
I kind of want to name it "Northern Aggression", and find some good small pride stickers and rainbow pinstripe....and maybe an antifascist action sticker for the hood?
Well I'm going to end up going down an ADHD rabbit hole of indecision on this for a while....
hansolo@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 326d
Yoooooo
There is room in this world an alternate universe Fast and Furious franchise where it's nothing but buck fucking wild meme muscle cars driven by a montle crew of drag queens and furries, doing lefty adventure shit.
And it would demand a mighty stable of queer as fuck muscle cars, going from the subtle and prim and not quite proper, to rainbow pinstripe Trans-Ams that lives drives into the backend of a rolling base modeled after Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
bravesirrbn@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 326d
The Fast and the Fabulous
hansolo@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 326d
I would call the 1969 Challenger the "General Glee"
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 10 pts · 326d
......I would watch that nonstop.
_stranger_@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 326d
make a windshield sticker across the top that reads "THE ROAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION"
Rear window might be better.
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 7 pts · 326d
Ooooh, thats good.... I like it
NABDad@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 326d
I would suggest that referring to "Northern Aggression" is supporting into the traitors' version of the story. It wasn't northern aggression.
I'm not sure what you could use instead. Maybe reference the "terrible swift sword" from the Battle Hymn of the Republic.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 326d
I made a rainbow flag for the roof of an orange Charger in the racing game I used to frequent.
Also had a 69 on the door for good measure.
Physnrd@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 326d
Keep it orange and add flames. Then it's the "General Sherman"
ultranaut@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 326d
I was recently watching a few episodes of Dukes of Hazzard and them Duke boys is woke. Despite the flag issue, they were very against bigotry of any kind.
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 7 pts · 326d
They were! But the car is still a racist shitbox.
I've got some solid ideas thanks to a few other folks in here, so maybe I'll be able to have some fun getting it done soon
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 326d
I forget what MTV car makeover show this was, but it had a version of that car with the confederate flag on the roof and all ... except the flag used the colors of the Jamaican flag.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 326d
Love it, though the blue could be a shade more midnight for me.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 326d
Yeah, the variations online range from a sparkling denim blue to navy, but agreed, should be a deep navy with a subtle sparkle like the tears of ten thousand slave owners.
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus · 10 pts · 326d
GLITTER. RAINBOW. PINSTRIPE.
Well now at least thats settled in my head.
BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk · 13 pts · 326d
He's got some serious Hugh Jackman vibes - maybe that Wolverine stuff is based in reality.
starman2112@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 326d
The worst thing Sherman ever did was stop
Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 326d
His interactions with native Americans is at least up there.
I agree that they should have let him destroy more of the slavery infrastructure, though.
TassieTosser@aussie.zone · 7 pts · 326d
We need a shermanposting sub on Lemmy.
Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 326d
Yeah, but at least we have one in the Fediverse:
https://piefed.social/c/shermanposting
Having said that, if you make a community, I'll help mod for it.
derry@midwest.social · 4 pts · 326d
Which parts? The slash and burn to the sea part? Not saying it was right but would we be here now if he carried it out?
primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus · 7 pts · 326d
We would not. Those slaver dynasties needed to end. Their culture–the culture of slavery–needed to be genocided.
derry@midwest.social · 5 pts · 326d
Needs to be, I'm afraid we're slipping into it again with the penal system currently in place in the US
primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus · 5 pts · 326d
It's no longer just a matter of ending a couple hundred rich asshole families who we already beat in war. That was the ounce of prevention. It's so much messier now.
Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 326d
The parts after the war. I got my timeline backward. He was a big advocate of the ethnic cleansing of the Sioux, and other tribes, in which he participated to a limited extent.
No debate about destroying the infrastructure that was upholding slavery. If anything, I think the slaves should have gotten all the assets of their former masters and the US should have gone through with reconstruction.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 118 pts · 326d
It’s offensive to our lord and savior Charlie Kirk who died for our right to die from gun violence
miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 44 pts · 326d
I bought the T-shirt at his funeral!
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net · 97 pts · 326d
See also "The civil war was about states rights" "States rights to what?"
Revan343@lemmy.ca · 35 pts · 326d
I'm pretty sure the civil war was about the northern states' right to not capture and return escaped slaves
axexrx@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 326d
Funny story. Back in the day, Massachusetts found a loophole- there was a case in my town, where a couple slave catchers showed up, and grabbed the wrong guy- the son of a buisness owner and prominent black family.
They were immediately besset upon by a mob, and got thrown in jail. There were riots, and people threatening to burn down the jail ( a 1room shack with just the 2 slavers in it)
When they were brought in for arraignment, judge decided on a summary judgment, claiming it was too dangerous for them, to either be released or held in custody for a trial.
He opted to impress them I to service, on a whaling ship, which was a 90% black crew.
Yep, he litterally made them slaves ri a black man. They were both 'lost at sea' within 2 months.
GraniteM@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 326d
This is like "it's turtles all the way down" except it's fucked-up legal situations all the way down.
Legal slavery 👉 Legal slave-hunting 👉 Caught the wrong guy 👉 Threat of mob justice 👉 No trial 👉 Impressed to service 👉 Legal whale hunting 👉 Almost certainly murdered at sea
HulkSmashBurgers@reddthat.com · 88 pts · 326d
Using their beloved rebel flag as the noose is the cherry on top.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 21 pts · 326d
Totally. It's their "heritage" so it serves well.
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 76 pts · 326d
"In trouble" how? "You can't wear that because you didn't bring enough to share." At least give everyone a RedBubble link!
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 44 pts · 326d
Got to be careful wearing a shirt like that. The idiot criminal president just declared being against fascism is actually being a terrorist.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 42 pts · 326d
At a certain point, the word “terrorist” becomes less threatening. We are currently at the stage where my niece refusing to pick up her toys makes her a terrorist.
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 326d
Remember! Do not negotiate with terrorists!
primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus · 6 pts · 326d
What, were the Klan gonna be friendly to him before?
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 326d
Being against the enemies of the United States is... terrorism? 🤔
finitebanjo@piefed.world · 11 pts · 326d
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 326d
I mean, it's on the back, you can always layer it over.
abigscaryhobo@lemmy.world · 70 pts · 326d
"Oh who the fuck am I offending!? The Nazis??"
Just reminded me of that quote from the Hellsing abridged series. Extrajudicial murder is still not good.
chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 326d
Doktor: "It looks like our forces are getting slaughtered."
Major: " Aw, who gives a shit? They're Nazis."
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 326d
I’m not saying this is the only place and I’m DEFINITELY not promoting it because t-shirt scams based on memes are well established. But it is interesting to look at.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 326d
$45 for a shirt is ridiculous.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 326d
Hey it’s a small business. You give $45 to morons all the time. This at least goes back to Americans who aren’t billionaires.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · -13 pts · 326d
No. There are plenty of small business that don’t overcharge. It’s kind of the entire point of a small business.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 30 pts · 326d
If its a hand applied silkscreen to a quality shirt then costs are high, you have gotten used to cheap Chinese shirts and slave wages making shirts cheap.
OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 326d
Yeah, a cheap printing shirt from like Gildan can be found at Michael's STARTING at 20 dollars. 20 dollars (less maybe, if they can get wholesale prices) and you're already eating well into any profit from a 42 dollar shirt after printing and shipping.
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 326d
Is that USD? They’re significantly cheaper on their website, I only see $20 for odd sizes like 3XL. But yeah, the price of the shirt itself and printing is just one factor, because breaking even is basically doing it for free. Artists gotta eat too.
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 326d
Then don’t buy it. If you just want something to cover up, go to a thrift store. If you want a shirt with specific art on it you either pay what the artist asks, make it yourself, or go without.
miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 38 pts · 326d
Another woke DEI moment!
Aneb@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 326d
This is secretly the best ad ever. Where can I buy it?
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 36 pts · 326d
18 U.S. Code § 2381:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death
MeThisGuy@feddit.nl · 9 pts · 326d
big if true
HorreC@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 326d
sign me the fuck up I will wear that shit every day.
tehn00bi@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 326d
Where is this dude wearing this? Pretty sure he’d risk getting shot where I live.
Saledovil@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 326d
Eh, he's likely already at risk because of his skin color.
jfrnz@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 326d
Find a new place to live
tehn00bi@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 325d
Find somewhere where I can make as much money and have as high of living standard.
TallonMetroid@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 326d
Where would you get one of those? Asking for a friend.
Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 326d
Several results showing that the back says in giant bold letters KILL THE KLAN so just Google that
leftthegroup@lemmings.world · -12 pts · 326d
Serinus@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 326d
Don't be Nazis, even to Nazis.
Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 326d
Quick and clean. Zombie rules: double tap to be sure.
Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 326d
How Nazi of you to say
Yowhatsup@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 326d
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 26 pts · 326d
"You're incinting violence" "You make it sound like it's a bad thing"
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 326d
Here's a recent list of lynchings in America. Many are deemed "a suicide". https://newsone.com/playlist/black-people-lynched-recent-years/
So this shirt is just suicide awareness in that case.
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 2 pts · 326d
Asking white judges to rule against white killers
s1ndr0m3@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 326d
Found one on eBay. Just search, "Kill the klan." There are a bunch of sellers and options.
LegoBrickOnFire@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 326d
I am offended because there is something that looks like a swiss flag. It probably has another symbolism, but I don't like my country being associated to the KKK
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 30 pts · 326d
Well, that is the KKK symbol on wikipedia. You should probably direct your grievances to the racist fucks at the KKK.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 326d
you think that's annoying? Spain is tired of telling everyone that those aren't klan hoods and they had them from before the US even started considering racism.
einlander@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 326d
But it's our heritage!
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 326d
What about his heritage then?
starman2112@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 326d
Killing confederates is my heritage
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 326d
Ach
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 326d
Yo where can I get me that shirt?
ohellidk@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 326d
Good trouble!
alexc@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 326d
I want one…
Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 326d
Anyone who does anything other than laugh at that is a asshole.
slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org · 11 pts · 326d
I mean i think it's pretty rad and i would wear it. But because he said he's in trouble, i assume he's still in school. And it is a shirt of a dead guy hanging...
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 7 pts · 326d
In my school, they'd have sent you home because it depicts a KKK member. The fact he's being hanged wouldn't even matter.
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 326d
Yeah I came to the same conclusion, either a student or at a workplace, either way depicting someone getting hung isn't gonna fly even if it were Hitler himself. Cool shirt though.
LemmyFeed@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 326d
The guy might not be dead... yet.
AntiBullyRanger@ani.social · 12 pts · 326d
Now I need the ICE one.
couch1potato@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 326d
This is the ICE one
r@piefed.social · 12 pts · 326d
lmao them talking about being offensive
watson387@sopuli.xyz · 11 pts · 326d
Fuck 'em
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 326d
I want to work on HR to call them in, then high five then and let them hang out instead of having to work, bring drinks too. then ask them to look sad when they leave my office
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 326d
New tattoo idea
ComradeRachel@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 326d
I want a tattoo like this
kibiz0r@midwest.social · 3 pts · 326d
FCC has already banned him from late night TV
SomeRandomGunner@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 326d
Apparently you cant say the truth?
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 326d
I.... Kind of see what they're getting at. And it's not that their argument is without merit, it's just.... That argument makes you seem like a racist asshole.
Ignoring the hate crime context of it all, the image depicts someone who has been executed, at it's basic level.
The idea of having someone walk around with a depiction of an execution on their apparel... I kind of get.
However, given the context of the image, being who has been executed, it's hard to make the argument that walking around showing the execution of a person depicted as one of the most notorious hate groups ever, is bad because it's a depiction of an execution, without also implying that you don't want kkk members to be hanged, and you're therefore sympathetic to them.
That's a whole "yikes" from me. I certainly wouldn't stop anyone from wearing this, and hell, if someone links it, I may just buy one myself and wear that around. My "yikes" is for anyone wanting to walk the line that they somehow are not sympathetic to the kkk, while still taking issue with this shirt.
zephiriz@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 326d
I want to buy this shirt. I also want one of a Nazi.
Along what your saying I remember shirts of Muammar Gaddafi when he was killed and also remember Saddam Hussein shirts in not very flattering depictios. People who dislike this shirt I wonder how they felt/feel about the ones I mention?
tetris11@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 326d
no?
wieson@feddit.org · 3 pts · 326d
It's hard to make the argument that the shirt is bad, without implying oneself to be sympathetic to the KKK.
So whoever doesn't like the shirt implies themselves with the KKK.
tetris11@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 326d
Oh right, I thought you were impying the t-shirt wearer liked the KKK or something. So what if some fascists get offended though? Offense is their whole schtick
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works · -4 pts · 326d
Surely noone could be upset about imagery depicting a person hanged to death.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 326d
I’m pretty sure that the problem with lynching was that it was extrajudicial murder and not that the wrong people were getting lynched.
ericatty@infosec.pub · 14 pts · 326d
It's not clear It's a lynching and not the result of a guilty conscience. Evidently hangings in MS are more often suicide instead of murder /s
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 326d
I mean, the lynching of innocent people as part of an ongoing terror campaign against a racial minority was definitely a big problem with it. There’s a reason people don’t care as much about outlaws getting hung or shot in the old west with a bare bones trial.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 326d
Unlike in the old west, with their trials followed by a hanging, typically people who are lynched are not given a trial. That’s why it is called extrajudicial.
Being okay with extrajudicial murder as long as it happens to the right people is immoral.
It’s immoral when the KKK does it to minorities just like it is immoral when anyone decides that their enemies don’t deserve due process before being murdered.
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 326d
The law is not an authority on morality. While slavery was legal it was still immoral. To use the law as your guide for what is right and what is wrong will have you doing/saying awful things. Things should be illegal because they're bad, they shouldn't be bad because they're illegal. The moral problem with killing a Klansman (if there is one) is not that it's done extra judicially.
"With or without [the law], good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes [the law]." - Steven Weinberg. He was talking about religion, but it's really religious law that causes good people to do evil.