How about the digestive system?

620 points · 167 comments · view on lemmy.world

167 Comments

ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com · 145 pts · 235d (33 replies)

The colloquial meaning is different from a topological definition. Anything with a through-hole has a hole at each end. It's an ambiguous question because the answer depends whether you're referring to a openings in the face of the object (a cylinder in the case of a straw) or the void connecting the surface openings. Perhaps the safest answer is inclusive, so three. I've been told I'm not fun at parties.

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 235d (29 replies)

You could make infinite indentations in an object with zero holes. That's a very poor definition for a hope topologically.

ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com · 20 pts · 235d

I'll give it a try and get back to you

Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 235d (20 replies)

And yet each indentation could hold something, like cheese or a kitten, so each indentation in functionally different from a smooth surface.

Deforming a shape changes it, thus topology is a special case of specifically ignoring most aspects of a shape.

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 235d (19 replies)

But more importantly, calling any indentation a "hole" is a case of specifically ignoring the special significance of actual holes. You can't pass through an indentation.

0ops@piefed.zip · 14 pts · 235d (10 replies)

Guess I can't dig holes either

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 235d (9 replies)

Sure you can, they just gotta come out the other side. Otherwise it's just a fancy divot

sauerkrautsaul@lemmus.org · -3 pts · 235d (8 replies)

ill put a fancy divot in yah dome wit my 9 millie brah

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 235d

Watch out, we got a badass over here

aMockTie@piefed.world · 6 pts · 235d (2 replies)

If you were to tell an average English speaker that you were going to dig an indentation, chances are high that they would misinterpret your meaning.

On the other hand, if you told them that you were going to dig a "blind hole," I imagine they would have a much better understanding of your meaning and you would still be technically correct.

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 235d (1 reply)

That's part of why I try not to talk to average English speakers

aMockTie@piefed.world · 2 pts · 235d

Haha fair enough

Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 235d (4 replies)

That's why we have the compound word "through-hole".

90% of important parts on living things are pockets and manipulations of surface area, two things completely ignored by topology. Topology is interesting mathematically, and has meaning for traversal and knot problems, but it's not really useful to describe reality.

kogasa@programming.dev · 7 pts · 235d

Topology is immensely useful to describe reality.

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 235d

That's why we have a diverse set of words such as "divot," "indentation," "pit," "well," and so much more!

Topology is a component of the language called "mathematics" we use to understand, describe, and model reality in concrete terms.

myslsl@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 234d

but it's not really useful to describe reality.

This is just not true.

What topology does for people practically, is it allows them to do a rough kind of geometric reasoning in a wide variety of cases. Further, the geometric notions defined via topology subsume many of the more intuitive notions you might already know of from the number line or the plane.

For example, continuity of functions, convergence of sequences, interiors and boundaries of sets, connectedness and many other things are inherently topological notions that any person who has taken a typical calculus sequence should have some intuitive idea of.

One of the biggest difference between actual pure topology and analysis is that analysis is just done in the context of really nice types of topological spaces called metric spaces in which notions of distance are available.

Any time people are using results of calculus in the sciences, under the hood they are using details about topology on R^n.

zeca@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 234d

but it's not really useful to describe reality.

Skill issue

really

blackbrook@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 235d (4 replies)

But it's a good definition if you are, say, putting a thing into each indentation. That's why the two definitions are different.

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 235d (3 replies)

Right, those wouldn't be holes.

blackbrook@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 234d (2 replies)

You seem to not be getting that words can have multiple (even if related) meanings. When some science or other discipline takes a common word and defines it really precisely for their purposes, that doesn't change the definition of the common word for all usages and mandate that all lay people use it only with that discipline's more precise definition.

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 234d (1 reply)

Better precision leads to better communication.

blackbrook@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 234d

Quite true. It is also important to know the limits of the precision you are going to be getting.

MacAnus@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 234d (1 reply)

Openings and indentations aren't the same thing though, are they?

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d

Correct, a hole is a topological feature.

Smoogs@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 235d

It’s ok, the people who tell you that weren’t invited to any of the parties either.

stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 235d

That's right you're not let me help:

"The colloquial cloaca meaning is different from a topological Topsy-turvy definition. Anything with a through-hole has a hole at each end^snickering^. It's an ambiguous GAY question because the answer depends whether you're referring to a openings in the face of the object^more-snickering^ (a cylinder in the case of a straw)^obviously-unnecessary^ or the void connection the surface openings. Perhaps the safest most radical answer is inclusive, so three. I've been told I'm not fun at parties.'

Akasazh@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 234d

I love the unabashed sharing of topical knowledge, so you're welcome to my party.

Kolanaki@pawb.social · 52 pts · 235d (13 replies)

A straw has 1 hole that goes all the way through.

DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 14 pts · 235d (8 replies)

The disk has two holes separated by a lesser distance

Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org · 3 pts · 235d (7 replies)

Not if it's 2D

tomiant@piefed.social · 3 pts · 234d (5 replies)

Holes are arguably 0D.

DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 3 pts · 234d (4 replies)

Idk if you can measure what area a hole takes up it has dimensions doesn't it?

tomiant@piefed.social · 2 pts · 234d

I’m being tongue in cheek of course and this is more a matter of philosophy and ontology than math and physics, but one could claim that the hole itself does not exist, it is the absence of matter, so what you are measuring is not the hole but rather the distance between any two points of matter. Otherwise one could point to nothing and claim that it is a hole of any size (like pointing to the sky and simply defining some part of it a hole of a certain size- it would effectively be a meaningless proposition in some sense).

But again, it is truly just silly semantics. :)

PaintedSnail@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d (2 replies)

But can you measure something that doesn't exist? Can the absence of something be something in and of itself? Is it the hole you are measuring, or the object around the hole?

tomiant@piefed.social · 1 pts · 234d
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DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 1 pts · 234d

No but a void exists as defined by the matter around it

Yes we just did this

Both

Philosophy is easy

DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 1 pts · 234d

Sure but THIS hole isn't 2D because it's a compressed 3d object.

RagingRobot@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 234d (2 replies)

So do you

stray@pawb.social · 5 pts · 234d

This is Crohn's erasure.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 234d

No I got more. My anatomy is special

anzo@programming.dev · 2 pts · 234d

So, infinite holes. Just like a line has infinite points. And, a longer straw has a bigger infinite number of holes.

tomiant@piefed.social · 40 pts · 235d (16 replies)

I mean no matter how you look at it it's just the one hole.

In fact, all holes are the same hole.

If you think about it.

NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org · 37 pts · 235d (4 replies)

That's what my uncle said.

tomiant@piefed.social · 9 pts · 235d (3 replies)

The mother of all holes.

The motherhole if you will.

Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 235d

The Motherhole

I was in a band called that!

We mostly played blues standards and industrial metal and our live shows prominently featured custom inflatables.

I_am_10_squirrels@beehaw.org · 3 pts · 234d (1 reply)

The Ödipus hole

tomiant@piefed.social · 3 pts · 234d

This, too, is a great bandname.

WhyIHateTheInternet@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 235d (1 reply)

Tell that to my wife

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 234d

Courtesy of the internet

lauha@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 235d (5 replies)

So oral and anal are fucking the same hole and pussy is not a real hole.

CrazyLikeGollum@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 235d (4 replies)

The pussy's more of a pit than a hole.

But yes, anal and oral are the same hole.

burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 234d

Vaginal canal -> cervix -> uterus -> oviducts ->abdominal cavity

I'd say the pussy is a hole.

tomiant@piefed.social · 3 pts · 235d (1 reply)

Yes, but that's not all, I claim that ALL anal and oral holes are the same hole.

CrazyLikeGollum@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 235d

I could agree with you, but first we'd need a species wide human centipede.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d

I can tell you haven't watch the hole documentary starring Rainier Wolfcastle

zeca@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 234d (1 reply)

Theres just one thing, and one way to look a the thing, which is the thing itself.

tomiant@piefed.social · 3 pts · 234d

Das Ding an sich!

RagingRobot@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 234d

I like to think that all our holes are connected in a way

Not like a human centipede though

teolan@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 234d (2 replies)

Two people kissing make a single continous tube going from one anus to the other

HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 234d

Great now I need a new folder.

MadhuGururajan@programming.dev · 6 pts · 234d

hehe kinky

NachBarcelona@piefed.social · 30 pts · 235d (15 replies)

Who the fuck thinks that a straw has 2 holes?

roguetrick@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 235d (14 replies)

How many holes do you got @NachBarcelona@piefed.social?

NachBarcelona@piefed.social · 12 pts · 235d (13 replies)

I think topologically I have only those: 

  1. Mouth to ass (oh yeah)
  2. Left nostril 
  3. Right nostril 
  4. Left Eustachian tube
  5. Right Eustachian tube 
  6. Right tear duct 
  7. Left tear duct

No piercings or anything, so that's it.

Scipitie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 235d (1 reply)

Nostrils and mouth are connected, topologically you could therefore have ass to left nostril with the mouth being an own opening!

That said I really really hope you forgot your uthera at least. Which is a curious question back to the subject: is it a topological hole if the opening is only to the insides of the corpus? (Thinking about the reproductive parts of either sex specifically).

NachBarcelona@piefed.social · 10 pts · 235d

I think topologically they don't count, that's why I didn't count the urether/urethra. 

funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 235d (1 reply)

is the ok symbol 👌 a hole?

what about membranes, pores?

NachBarcelona@piefed.social · 5 pts · 235d

The ok symbol is rather temporary but topologically that would count. I wouldn't count pores or membranes here (I mean by my arbitrary definition). 

not_woody_shaw@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 235d (2 replies)

Skin pores.

NachBarcelona@piefed.social · 3 pts · 235d (1 reply)

I didnt include them for the same reason I didn't include the ears or the urinairy tract (they're not "holes" as in tunnels, topologically speaking), but if your definition differs from mine then you're right.

not_woody_shaw@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 235d

They go all the way thru the skin, but not all the way thru the body, so I guess you're right.

ChexMax@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 235d (2 replies)

Plus a hole for peeing i hope

tdawg@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 235d

Peeings over rated

NachBarcelona@piefed.social · 3 pts · 235d

That's topologically not a hole, your bladder like you lung is on the outside/surface.

Manjushri@piefed.social · 2 pts · 235d
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Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 233d (1 reply)

you are forgetting the oropharynx. nasal area to the throat.

NachBarcelona@piefed.social · 1 pts · 233d

That's included in both nostrils (they both end up there).

Rhoeri@piefed.world · 25 pts · 234d (7 replies)

A straw has one hole that is open to two entrances. Like a single tunnel. We never say that a tunnel has two holes.

Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 234d (3 replies)

A tunnel has two holes.

bricklove@midwest.social · 7 pts · 234d (2 replies)

We mustn't say that. It is forbidden.

Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 234d

Christmas is just another form of control, from the matrix.

it pushes massive consumerism and the idea to kids must do as told to be "nice," cause we can watch them all the time like a cia state.

Is that less forbidden?

humorlessrepost@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d

It is forbidden.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 234d (2 replies)

I got a T shaped cat tunnel. It's got two holes. I think. Topology can go suck a lemon

Natanael@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 234d

Still one hole unless there's isolated sections

Rhoeri@piefed.world · 1 pts · 234d

Which is why I said SINGLE tunnel.

gedaliyah@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 234d (1 reply)

Topologically, people are toroids.

Hupf@feddit.org · 6 pts · 234d
untorquer@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 234d (16 replies)

This suggests the reverse is true, that every hole is at minimum a tube.

I'm throwing out all my cups today. I'll jut drink from my plates.

CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org · 4 pts · 234d (14 replies)

also, cups and plates are not equal topologically, because a cup has handle with a hole in it, and plate doesn't

zeca@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 234d (1 reply)

So we finally realise that the topological notion of "hole" doesnt really capture the natural language concept of a hole.

CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org · 5 pts · 234d

same as most of professional terminology that made its appearance in everyday vocabulary

untorquer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 234d (7 replies)

humorlessrepost@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d (2 replies)

Perhaps the cups with one hole are the real solo cups.

untorquer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 233d (1 reply)

Solo hole 😏

humorlessrepost@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 233d

Worst deleted scene from Silo.

CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 234d (3 replies)

touche

untorquer@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 234d (2 replies)

Hahahaha I win again, Internet stranger!

CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org · 7 pts · 234d (1 reply)

Woe on me! Woe on me, sire! For the eternal shame you put onto me is irredeemable!

Ah, whatever shall i do? My bloodline is forever in aura debt!

untorquer@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d

Spread fourth this knowledge my peon!

titanicx@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 234d (3 replies)

Not all cups have that. I would consider that more a mug. 

CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 234d (2 replies)

ah yes, can't wait to get home and drink my evening MUG of tea :D

titanicx@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 233d (1 reply)

Yep, I drink it out my coffee mug.

CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 233d

mmm heart attacks☺️☺️☺️

CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 234d

welcome to topology

halvar@lemy.lol · 16 pts · 235d (9 replies)

Ehh. I'm not sure it's very constructive to make a topological argument from a debate people usually think about as a linguistic one.

Derpenheim@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 235d

I like to think of this particular example as a sort of reminder that we need to be specific on what grounds we are arguing. Colloquially, and for the sake of practicality, the straw has two holes. You would one hole or the other is in the drink, or clogged. But topologically, yes, there is only one hole.

4am@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 235d

Except maybe to illustrate the necessity of various disciplines, as this is a maths problem and not a linguistics one.

Arguing the linguistics of this is like arguing over astrology.

stevedice@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 234d (4 replies)

But saying that to make a hole in a sphere, you need to make two holes in the sphere is funny.

halvar@lemy.lol · 1 pts · 234d (3 replies)

Very good observation. Now what about a hollow sphere?

stevedice@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 233d (2 replies)

All spheres are hollow (mathematically)

halvar@lemy.lol · 2 pts · 233d (1 reply)

is x²+y²+z²<=r² not considered a sphere then?

stevedice@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 210d

Nope. That's a ball. A closed ball to be precise. "Sphere" refers specifically to the "=" part.

zeca@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 234d

Fields dont need to be that isolated. In the end its arbitrary, so why not accept arguments of all perspectives?

knatschus@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 234d

In germany we say alles hat ein Ende nur die Wurst hat zwei

Epzillon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 15 pts · 235d

Vsauce, Michael here.

Earthman_Jim@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 234d

A straw has 1 hole with two ends... this is dumb

MeowerMisfit817@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 235d

So, I kinda just woke up from a nap and my still confused mind thought the meme said the straw had four holes.

VoterFrog@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 234d (2 replies)

A straw has zero holes. It's just a flat piece of plastic wrapped around and attached to itself. Ain't nobody drilling holes through plastic to make straws.

ytg@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 234d (1 reply)

Try that argument with your local topologist

VoterFrog@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 234d

Depends whether or not you consider the fastening of a surface to itself to be a real change to the topology.

eronth@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 233d (2 replies)

Got it, a CD has 2 holes as well.

AnnaFrankfurter@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 233d (1 reply)

What the heck is a CD?

LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 233d

Certificate of Deposit

kazerniel@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 234d (2 replies)

that meme format makes me feel old... I used to see it in like 2008 👴

threeduck@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 234d (1 reply)

But this one seems to be updated for some reason? The bottom spit take reaction is not the original.

kazerniel@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 233d

You're right! But from what I could find, the fake version started circulating less than a year after the original, so I honestly can't remember which one I've seen more over the years. I didn't even notice there were multiple versions lol.

Lizard@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 235d

Technically, the digestive system (i.e., the full gastro intestinal tract) is considered as part of the "outside" of the body, acting as an external surface similar to the skin. The space that an object can travel through without crossing a cell membrane or entering blood or tissue is called "lumen". So the same intuition as in the meme actually holds true here, too.

hansolo@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 235d (4 replies)

Am I.....Hole?

Denjin@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 235d

Well, pretty much every animal is merely a digestive tract with ever more elaborate ways of funneling food in one end and get rid of the waste at the other.

NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org · 4 pts · 235d (2 replies)

No, you are hansolo, with holes.

hansolo@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 235d

Greedo shot first!

Kolanaki@pawb.social · 2 pts · 235d

Holesolo

Taleya@aussie.zone · 7 pts · 235d (3 replies)

How about the digestive system? I'm pretty sure the stomach forms a break

NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org · 5 pts · 234d

duodenum

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 234d

There's valves before and after the stomach yeah. Are we donuts when those are open or jelly donuts when they're closed? When am I a cruller or cronut?

assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 235d

Nah it doesn’t

comrade19@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 234d (5 replies)

We have a pee hole and a poo hole and a mouth hole and a nose hole do really we've got a few holes going on there

CovfefeKills@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d (4 replies)

We have a massive amount of holes in our bodies. Those are just the most major holes. It comes down to what you consider a hole. Is a mouth a hole okay but what about small pours that open and close? Tear ducts would be in the definitely hole category you never think of those.

comrade19@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 234d (1 reply)

Oh god we're just flesh sieves

CovfefeKills@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 234d

Beautiful imagery.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 234d (1 reply)

Sometimes I tell my girlfriend I'm going to use every hole she has, then try to stick it up her nose. Now I realize I can get way more creative.

Heikki2@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 234d

I was making a minnow net to catch baitfish for my son. To make a cone you need a half circle of material out of mesh.

Now in a 2D world the where there is no thickness this would be correct, if material can be added to fill gaps.

In a 3D world, any round object with a hole and some thickness could be a straw. A washer is a straw by this logic

FuyuhikoDate@feddit.org · 5 pts · 235d (1 reply)

Wait this is only one hole?

tomiant@piefed.social · 2 pts · 235d

Yes it is a hole in one.

I will remove myself from the premises.

nialv7@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 234d

If a flat disc has no holes, how many holes does the surface of a sphere have?

U7826391786239@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 235d
[ removed ]
aravindan_v@programming.dev · 5 pts · 233d (1 reply)

At step 4 it is not a straw anymore..

glitchdx@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 233d

at step 2 it's not a staw anymore, that's a narrow funnel.

someacnt@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 234d

It still has two holes compared to a sphere, and that is our usual frame of reference.

SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 235d

I like eating

vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 235d

There is a great sauce video about this: https://youtu.be/egEraZP9yXQ

gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 234d (1 reply)

you are what you eat: a donut

or sth

humorlessrepost@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 234d

Nah, there’s like 11 to 14 macroscopic holes in my body. You just can’t get a dick in most of them.

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 233d (1 reply)

if you food poisoning you will be exiting out of both holes.

LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 233d

Fun fact: the alimentary canal is one long tube, like a straw. At one end of the alimentary canal is your mouth. At the other end is your asshole.

/FunFact

YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 234d

Good fucking science meme!

dwemthy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 235d (1 reply)

After it's flat it's ready to be made into a coffee cup

stevedice@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 235d

No, that's a punctured disk, you're thinking of a torus.

Edit: After dusting off my old-ass-hasn't-been-in-uni-for-10-years-brain, I've concluded the straw shown in the image is NOT a punctured disk, it's a closed annulus. It's still not a coffee mug and you're still thinking of a torus but I don't wanna go around spreading wrong math.

I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 235d (3 replies)

I hate this faulty logic. Of course there are two holes. Look, plug one end and do the unfold method in the comic again so instead of one hole in the center, it's just a solid disk. Does that mean if the straw is plugged at one end there are zero holes? Of course not.

Hule@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 235d (2 replies)

I mean, you plugged the hole..

I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 235d (1 reply)

When companies drill for oil, are they not drilling holes because only one end is open?

Hule@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 235d

They drill to get through.