Not really. To you, antifa is a loosely-if-at-all organised collection of people united by opposition to fascism. To them, it's a real organisation with actual members who use violence against the government. To you, because the collection isn't really organised, the name determines what it is. To them, because it's a real organisation, the name can be a lie and doesn't matter. To you, direct action against the government is justified, because they're in the process of creating a fascist state. To them, the government isn't fascist, so action against the government can't be on the basis of anti-fascism; antifa must therefore be a dishonest label.
Ah, but you have made the classical mistake of assuming they think/ actually believe what they are saying and arent just trying to disenfranchise billions.
Who's "they", now? I think that plenty of politicians knowingly misrepresent things like this, but I don't think the average Trump voter/Fox news watcher understands. Otherwise the politicians and the news just wouldn't have to lie.
This is somewhat of an encouraging thought. They have to lie to keep people on their side. Unfortunately the lies work, but at least the people don't support their real agenda.
There are true believers, grifters, and idiots all throughout the movement. Sometimes you can have various shades of believer/grifter/idiot all rolled into a single person.
Never believe that anti‐ Semites fascists are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti‐Semites fascists have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side.
But then someone's gonna sweep in with a moral relativistic argument about how "evil is a social construct" and "there's no such thing as absolute evil" and that labelling something as evil is "essentialist"
I don't get it. I thought moral relativism, anti-essentialism, and critiquing social constructs are all elements of post-modernism?
Or are you saying I would rant against postmodernism? Cause while I find deconstruction to be useful in certain contexts, denying the existence of evil as a concept seems like an absurdity.
Instead, I find the challenge to be in defining precisely what constitutes evil in a way that's both narrow enough to not be overextended, while being comprehensive enough to avoid letting certain things slip through the cracks.
For instance, some things are objectively evil. Slavery, rape, genocide, torture, bombing civilians, child abuse, etc. It would be ridiculous to make a moral relativistic argument against that.
Some things are not so clearly defined, however. Is capital punishment inherently evil, or does it ever have justified cause? Is eating meat inherently evil? Does that mean everyone who eats meat is an evil person? Another one is this: does circumcision count as child abuse, therefore making it evil? Is modern capitalism literal wage-slavery, making the entire system evil?
Some people might have firm convictions about the answer to these questions, but if many people have diametrically opposite yet equally firm convictions, does that make the issue in concern a morally relativistic one?
So defining evil certainly isn't a simple task. But if we had to throw out every concept that's hard to define, we'd have to abandon use of the term "fascism" as well (you know what they say about nailing jelly to the wall).
Another question about defining evil: is it a property of actions, of agents (actors; i.e., people who do evil things), or of dispositions (tendencies, habits, attitudes, etc.; things that are consistently held properties rather than isolated incidents), or some other thing?
In other words, if a person tortures a civilian, would you say "He's an evil person," "He did an evil thing," or "He has evil dispositions." Or perhaps some combination of the above?
Outright rejecting the existence of evil, however, is a flaw of post-modernism. And a true post-modernist wouldn't take that to mean that all of post-modernism is flawed, but simply that it has flaws.
I'm saying that the people currently holding a farcically post modernist take on the idea of evil, are often also ideologically opposed to post modernism. You may say this is contradictory, but to that theoretical you, I say, "yeah, but the main ideology that does this is fascism, and they don't care if they're self contradictory"
Oh yeah probably! Just a picture of Franklin maybe?
Someone's familiar with Churchill's behaviour and opinions outside of WW2 I see
EDIT: "lively terror" , Bengal famine , gallipoli/"operation get behind the Aussies"
EDIT2 : oh shit, the Bengal famine even took place during WW2, what an arsehole. I'm starting to be convinced that bigging up churchill is a right wing psyop to keep Clement Attlee from being consistently ranked as the greatest Prime Minister so the UK gets left wing ideals further entrenched into its identity.
But the Soviets did try to cozy up to the UK, France, etc. Before the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact came into being
Because the Soviets knew that the Nazi's wanted to to Manifest Destiny in Eastern Europe.
They were turned away because western the powers thought that the Nazi's would do the dirty work of destroying the Communists for them.
So, to bide time, the Soviets see no other choice but to make nice with the Nazis for a time.
We can look back, with the benefit of hindsight, at aspects of all this, and say "Damn x thing about this sucked shit", but I think you're being overly simplistic in your assessment
In some countries, such as Germany, "the allies" (or its translation) doesn't even generally include Russia. Russia was allied with Germany at first, raped half of Europe, then divided it in two and tried to starve half of Berlin.
The picture is a relevant reminder of what fascism is and how it needed to be defeated in the past, but I can understand opposition to anything that lauds Stalin.
In Sweden the Soviets are not really regarded as part of the allies as well, just some other entity that the allies helped against Hitler. That doesn't change that they were in the allies club however.
And Stalin should rightfully be left in the murderous dictators club. But recommending to not upvoting a picture of the allied leaders because Stalin is there, well.
Let me paraphrase, yes, I belive that it's not a great idea to upvote a genocidal tyran responsible for a death of millions just becouse he is an "ally". The exact picture that you upvoting is the moment when real allies were betreyed and given away to him.
Polish pilots destroy 12% of German aircraft's during the Battle of Britain. The same pilots learned that they are not allowed to march in the parade during victory day, not to displease Stalin.. Oh and that they don't have home to go back to.
Kurwa mac. You're posting some bullshit purity test nonsense. "oh no, there's one bad person who in this context was doing the right thing, let's disregard it completely!"
Stalin is as bad or maybe worse parson than Hitler. And on this picture exactly its captured a moment when allies were selling allies by making a deal with him at their expense of freedom and lives. 40% of polish land was stolen. Legimate Polish goverment that was sending trups to die with British and American soldier was removed and replaced with soviet-backed puppets that day. It was the end of democracy in Poland for the next 44 years. Iligal annexation of Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania was signed that day. All allies. Fate of Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria was sealed behind iron curtain that day.
"Bad person doing right thing" is a very reductive way to look at this.
It tracks that a fascist would present a picture of people who aren’t able-bodied white men and just assume that one should take that as intrinsically negative. It reveals their vile mindset.
It tracks that they're unable to recognize bravery just like they're unable to recognize freedom. Their entire world view is programmed and skewed by the overclass of people who control every aspect of their lives because they rely on brainwashed obedience to maintain that control.
They don't ask questions when reality doesn't line up with whatever they're being sold, just let it trickle down their throats and say thank you, while convincing themselves it must only be their imagination that it tastes a little funny. If there was really anything to worry about, surely somebody they trust would say something.
Bravery is supposed to look like Pete Hegseth criticizing women and trans people in the military while he struggles to do a pull up.
Bravery is not supposed to look like marginalized people refusing to be intimidated into silence by the anti-egalitarian fascists who "joke" about exterminating them.
Freedom is supposed to look like a ruling overclass free of the burden of the laws and regulations that were created to protect us from the overclass. In exchange the people that support the overclass are free to "joke" about genocide without fear of social consequences.
Freedom is not supposed to look like the freedom to stand up to oligarchs for your rights and the rights of others. Including the rights of the morons too dumb to understand who's interests they're looking out for when they willing hand over their own civil rights and liberties to those who claim "democracy is incompatible with freedom."
Let's say country A is imperialist with a bit of fascism sprinkled on top. County B is openly fascist, but has a lot of resources and poses a threat to country B.
If country A invades, occupies, and crushes country B, is country A inherently anti-fascist? It did fight the fascists.
I fail to see how that relates to what I said. I said anyone opposed to antifa is fascist by definition. The reverse isn’t automatically true.
A cow is an animal, not all animals are cows.
Also I never said that I supported Stalin in anything
Just to be clear, your implication is that Antifa isn't actually anti-fascist, but is fascist themselves?
Do you realize how hard it would be for antifa, a decentralized concept that people self identify as, to band together to oppress everyone in favor of nationalism? And what nation would they be oppressing for?
If you are correct, and I want you be clear that you aren't and you're dumb, but if you are correct then I'm fucking impressed by antifa more than ever.
I think they’re just saying names aren’t always accurate, given the North Korea -> democracy (Democratic People’s Republic of Korea) and Nazi -> socialism (National Socialist) examples.
Antifa is great but sweeping statements based only on a name like the one they’re responding to are definitely not accurate
Antifa isn't a country, party or group though. It's a loose movement.
A similar thing would be environmental activist (or enva for short). Sure, you could call yourself environmental activist while adocating against the environment, but that wouldn't mean that environmental activism is bad for the environment, it would mean that you aren't actually an environmental activist..
Yes you can! We desperately need to organize along anti fascist lines without the baggage of the mentally ill maximalist fake left who describe themselves as antifa.
Uh ya. Turns out individuals who had to overcome social, economical, and political oppression seem to be POC, disabled, queer, or a women. They don't see any able bodied white Christan men at the front and freak out. It's because they think we'll treat the way they treat everyone else. So Ya conservatives just think everyone is as evil as they are
Inaction is the sum of it though. Neutrality is benign, but you should probably remove it anyways, right. They aren't holding up their end of the bargain in a society, which is unfortunately taking a side on things. Not being at the table does not make them complicit by and large, but it allows it to happen.
They also allow good things to happen that they don't necessarily agree with, because they stand aside and grumble to themselves and their tiny circle if not outright ignoring it. It doesn't mean they should not be involved but humanity as a whole has a pact mentality, whereas it's someone else problem, where are we going today?
I don't think there is a "right" answer. They allow good things to happen too, are they responsible for that as well, or just the bad things that happen? Bystanders are simply a fact of life, it's the doers who bear the responsibility. Look at mob mentality as an example.
Ive known some precocious young ones who could give him a run for his money
4 years ago, I was at a beach party, and stepped down to the water to be downwind of the group for a smoke. My best friends 6 year old walks up to me and asks "can I have a smoke?"
I tell him no way, hes way too young for such a bad habit. "But my parents let me smoke, all the time"
"Yeah right, they dont even smoke anymore (quit before his older sister was born)
"When we went to Russia. They let me smoke there. Everybody smokes there. Id have one after the sauna, and one after dinner each night."
It was true. They had just got back from russia, a couple months ago. (They were actually there visiting the wife's parents when the war broke out. Whole family managed to escape though, to a relatives home in Bulgaria, and her mom was in the process of emigrating to the US, although I think thats on hold because shes not sure Trumps America is better than Putins russia)
I knew the grandparents smoked, and dont know enough about Russian culture, so it might be plausible. I know the kids had been offered a shot of vodka, and had spit it out.
I ended up reiterating he was way too young for such a gross habit, and we went back up to the party. When I told his parents, they had a laugh about it. He would sit around after dinner / sauna with the men, and have a candy cigarette while they all smoked. She also added hed gotten way better at lying over that month.
134 Comments
Kirp123@lemmy.world · 268 pts · 211d
Still seems bonkers to me they made anti-fascists the bad guys.
slothrop@lemmy.ca · 118 pts · 211d
It demonstrates they don't comprehend basic English - this statement included.
FishFace@piefed.social · 69 pts · 211d
Not really. To you, antifa is a loosely-if-at-all organised collection of people united by opposition to fascism. To them, it's a real organisation with actual members who use violence against the government. To you, because the collection isn't really organised, the name determines what it is. To them, because it's a real organisation, the name can be a lie and doesn't matter. To you, direct action against the government is justified, because they're in the process of creating a fascist state. To them, the government isn't fascist, so action against the government can't be on the basis of anti-fascism; antifa must therefore be a dishonest label.
Scubus@sh.itjust.works · 51 pts · 211d
Ah, but you have made the classical mistake of assuming they think/ actually believe what they are saying and arent just trying to disenfranchise billions.
FishFace@piefed.social · 18 pts · 211d
Who's "they", now? I think that plenty of politicians knowingly misrepresent things like this, but I don't think the average Trump voter/Fox news watcher understands. Otherwise the politicians and the news just wouldn't have to lie.
CannonFodder@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 211d
This is somewhat of an encouraging thought. They have to lie to keep people on their side. Unfortunately the lies work, but at least the people don't support their real agenda.
Zombie@feddit.uk · 23 pts · 211d
Scubus@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 211d
Average viewer doesnt think, average producer is running a grift
nomy@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 211d
It's pretty much this from top to bottom.
There are true believers, grifters, and idiots all throughout the movement. Sometimes you can have various shades of believer/grifter/idiot all rolled into a single person.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 211d
And furthermore, to them the government can't be fascist because they supported all of the fascist parts of it.
Zombie@feddit.uk · 21 pts · 211d
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Sartre
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 211d
France to the rescue!
JustJack23@slrpnk.net · 18 pts · 211d
A friend asked me what is antifa... I started carrying crayons after that encounter.
madjo@piefed.social · 23 pts · 211d
To feed your friend?
Quadhammer@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 211d
Maybe we need a rebranding change the name to anti-evil. Instead of fascist you say evil
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 211d
But then someone's gonna sweep in with a moral relativistic argument about how "evil is a social construct" and "there's no such thing as absolute evil" and that labelling something as evil is "essentialist"
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 211d
This person may also rant against postmodernism
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 211d
I don't get it. I thought moral relativism, anti-essentialism, and critiquing social constructs are all elements of post-modernism?
Or are you saying I would rant against postmodernism? Cause while I find deconstruction to be useful in certain contexts, denying the existence of evil as a concept seems like an absurdity.
Instead, I find the challenge to be in defining precisely what constitutes evil in a way that's both narrow enough to not be overextended, while being comprehensive enough to avoid letting certain things slip through the cracks.
For instance, some things are objectively evil. Slavery, rape, genocide, torture, bombing civilians, child abuse, etc. It would be ridiculous to make a moral relativistic argument against that.
Some things are not so clearly defined, however. Is capital punishment inherently evil, or does it ever have justified cause? Is eating meat inherently evil? Does that mean everyone who eats meat is an evil person? Another one is this: does circumcision count as child abuse, therefore making it evil? Is modern capitalism literal wage-slavery, making the entire system evil?
Some people might have firm convictions about the answer to these questions, but if many people have diametrically opposite yet equally firm convictions, does that make the issue in concern a morally relativistic one?
So defining evil certainly isn't a simple task. But if we had to throw out every concept that's hard to define, we'd have to abandon use of the term "fascism" as well (you know what they say about nailing jelly to the wall).
Another question about defining evil: is it a property of actions, of agents (actors; i.e., people who do evil things), or of dispositions (tendencies, habits, attitudes, etc.; things that are consistently held properties rather than isolated incidents), or some other thing?
In other words, if a person tortures a civilian, would you say "He's an evil person," "He did an evil thing," or "He has evil dispositions." Or perhaps some combination of the above?
Outright rejecting the existence of evil, however, is a flaw of post-modernism. And a true post-modernist wouldn't take that to mean that all of post-modernism is flawed, but simply that it has flaws.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 211d
I'm saying that the people currently holding a farcically post modernist take on the idea of evil, are often also ideologically opposed to post modernism. You may say this is contradictory, but to that theoretical you, I say, "yeah, but the main ideology that does this is fascism, and they don't care if they're self contradictory"
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 211d
Soon: "if being evil is bad then I don't want to be good!!"
FatVegan@leminal.space · 13 pts · 211d
America is a disease
homes@piefed.world · 92 pts · 211d
ideonek@piefed.social · -31 pts · 211d
There is a fucking Stalin on this picture. Please don't upvote it. Some nations to this day use "Yalta" as a synonym of "betrayal".
guy@piefed.social · 62 pts · 211d
Stalin was part of the allies who kicked the nazis to the curb. We can't upvote the allies?
LongLive@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 211d
I assume the lack of nuance is the argument in this case.
guy@piefed.social · -1 pts · 211d
Oh yeah probably! Just a picture of Franklin maybe? He's the only one I haven't heard supporting any fascist policies
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 211d
Someone's familiar with Churchill's behaviour and opinions outside of WW2 I see
EDIT: "lively terror" , Bengal famine , gallipoli/"operation get behind the Aussies"
EDIT2 : oh shit, the Bengal famine even took place during WW2, what an arsehole. I'm starting to be convinced that bigging up churchill is a right wing psyop to keep Clement Attlee from being consistently ranked as the greatest Prime Minister so the UK gets left wing ideals further entrenched into its identity.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 15 pts · 211d
All Stalin had to do was not make a deal with Hitler.
He didn't have to cozy up to Churchill, just not make a deal with Hitler.
Also, after he made the deal he killed anyone who tried to tell him that Hitler was going to stab him in the back.
Communists in the German army walked up to the Russian lines and told them that invasion was on the way. Stalin had them killed.
The Russian people beat Hitler; Stalin was a yoke around their neck.
SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 211d
But the Soviets did try to cozy up to the UK, France, etc. Before the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact came into being
Because the Soviets knew that the Nazi's wanted to to Manifest Destiny in Eastern Europe.
They were turned away because western the powers thought that the Nazi's would do the dirty work of destroying the Communists for them.
So, to bide time, the Soviets see no other choice but to make nice with the Nazis for a time.
We can look back, with the benefit of hindsight, at aspects of all this, and say "Damn x thing about this sucked shit", but I think you're being overly simplistic in your assessment
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -9 pts · 211d
Well that's some Nazi friendship apologism.
maus@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 211d
Well that's some purity test oversimplification.
guy@piefed.social · 5 pts · 211d
The Soviets plan was to make a non-aggression pact to buy themselves time to not get invaded since they knew that it was coming.
And as SpookyBogMonster said, they did try to achieve that a decade earlier with the western powers but were rejected.
This is however besides the point. Stalin was a part of the allies and not upvoting something just because Stalin is present in the picture is dumb.
Same goes for the rest of the allied soldiers but hey, it's Churchill and Franklin we speak of
FishFace@piefed.social · 5 pts · 211d
Yeah, officially that's what they did. And they also agreed on which parts of Europe they would each help themselves to.
guy@piefed.social · 1 pts · 210d
Absolutely. One can do two things
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 1 pts · 211d
You cut out the part where I said Stalin was a yoke around the neck of the Russians.
He killed a lot of his own best generals. Neither Churchill or FDR did that.
guy@piefed.social · 1 pts · 210d
No disagreement about that, but it was besides the point
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 211d
Crackers still haven't forgiven him for that
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 211d
Make a deal with the devil you know seems to be relevant here.
FishFace@piefed.social · 0 pts · 211d
In some countries, such as Germany, "the allies" (or its translation) doesn't even generally include Russia. Russia was allied with Germany at first, raped half of Europe, then divided it in two and tried to starve half of Berlin.
The picture is a relevant reminder of what fascism is and how it needed to be defeated in the past, but I can understand opposition to anything that lauds Stalin.
guy@piefed.social · 3 pts · 211d
In Sweden the Soviets are not really regarded as part of the allies as well, just some other entity that the allies helped against Hitler. That doesn't change that they were in the allies club however.
And Stalin should rightfully be left in the murderous dictators club. But recommending to not upvoting a picture of the allied leaders because Stalin is there, well.
thisbenzingring@lemmy.today · -3 pts · 211d
This is that thing, like a old clock. It might be right 2x a day but its still broken for 23 hours and 58 minutes of the day.
ideonek@piefed.social · -4 pts · 211d
If you think Stalin was better than Hittler, I have a bridge to sell you.
guy@piefed.social · 0 pts · 211d
Reading comprehension mate. Nowhere could you find any such sentiments in what I wrote.
ideonek@piefed.social · -4 pts · 211d
Let me paraphrase, yes, I belive that it's not a great idea to upvote a genocidal tyran responsible for a death of millions just becouse he is an "ally". The exact picture that you upvoting is the moment when real allies were betreyed and given away to him.
Polish pilots destroy 12% of German aircraft's during the Battle of Britain. The same pilots learned that they are not allowed to march in the parade during victory day, not to displease Stalin.. Oh and that they don't have home to go back to.
guy@piefed.social · 1 pts · 210d
Here's a funny picture of the "og afa" which Stalin was very much a part of. The "you can't upvote this because Stalin is present!" is stupid.
Two reasons: Stalin was with the allies, no denying that, and what better picture to present that view that the iconic picture of them together?
There's no denying of the crimes Stalin were responsible for but you can't overlook the fact that he was an ally.
ideonek@piefed.social · 1 pts · 210d
Betraying other allies. It is iconic. It should be infamous.
Think about it this way. If the allience was with hittler to defeat Stalin would you be upvoting it? Becouse there is no fucking difference.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 211d
how's not voting for trump's opponents working out for you?
ideonek@piefed.social · 0 pts · 211d
Co kurwa?
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 211d
Kurwa mac. You're posting some bullshit purity test nonsense. "oh no, there's one bad person who in this context was doing the right thing, let's disregard it completely!"
ideonek@piefed.social · -6 pts · 211d
Stalin is as bad or maybe worse parson than Hitler. And on this picture exactly its captured a moment when allies were selling allies by making a deal with him at their expense of freedom and lives. 40% of polish land was stolen. Legimate Polish goverment that was sending trups to die with British and American soldier was removed and replaced with soviet-backed puppets that day. It was the end of democracy in Poland for the next 44 years. Iligal annexation of Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania was signed that day. All allies. Fate of Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria was sealed behind iron curtain that day. "Bad person doing right thing" is a very reductive way to look at this.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 211d
that's cool for you, and the alliance pictured is what beat the nazis and ended ww2. so I don't care.
ideonek@piefed.social · -3 pts · 211d
Ended for some, prolonged the occupation for others. And yes, I see the lack of carrying. That's exactly why it was a betrayal.
m0stlyharmless@lemmy.zip · 79 pts · 211d
It tracks that a fascist would present a picture of people who aren’t able-bodied white men and just assume that one should take that as intrinsically negative. It reveals their vile mindset.
pyre@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 210d
they're so pathetic and insecure
AcidiclyBasicGlitch@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 210d
It tracks that they're unable to recognize bravery just like they're unable to recognize freedom. Their entire world view is programmed and skewed by the overclass of people who control every aspect of their lives because they rely on brainwashed obedience to maintain that control.
They don't ask questions when reality doesn't line up with whatever they're being sold, just let it trickle down their throats and say thank you, while convincing themselves it must only be their imagination that it tastes a little funny. If there was really anything to worry about, surely somebody they trust would say something.
Bravery is supposed to look like Pete Hegseth criticizing women and trans people in the military while he struggles to do a pull up.
Bravery is not supposed to look like marginalized people refusing to be intimidated into silence by the anti-egalitarian fascists who "joke" about exterminating them.
Freedom is supposed to look like a ruling overclass free of the burden of the laws and regulations that were created to protect us from the overclass. In exchange the people that support the overclass are free to "joke" about genocide without fear of social consequences.
Freedom is not supposed to look like the freedom to stand up to oligarchs for your rights and the rights of others. Including the rights of the morons too dumb to understand who's interests they're looking out for when they willing hand over their own civil rights and liberties to those who claim "democracy is incompatible with freedom."
AgentOrangesicle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 210d
Sometimes you've got to write a manifesto. I dig this one.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 73 pts · 211d
An old woman in a wheelchair stands up to ICE and you're implying she's a loser?
That woman has more courage in her pinkie toe than you have in your balls you little shit
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 19 pts · 211d
There's a guy I know who follows Asmongold and his moron takes. He came out for a group event.
Super scrawny guy who hides behind his computer and was terrified to walk to his car alone. Blocked him after he mocked protesters.
He's the image I have of every one of those cucks who lick police boot.
madjo@piefed.social · 69 pts · 211d
Antifa has leaders?! Since when?
Also anyone who's against antifa, is fascist. By definition.
MrSmith@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 210d
I mean, there's a picture of stalin above your comment calling him a member of antifa council.
Some mixed signals there.
madjo@piefed.social · 2 pts · 210d
He did fight against the fascists during the second world war. But yeah, mixed signals, for sure.
MrSmith@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 210d
Let's say country A is imperialist with a bit of fascism sprinkled on top. County B is openly fascist, but has a lot of resources and poses a threat to country B.
If country A invades, occupies, and crushes country B, is country A inherently anti-fascist? It did fight the fascists.
madjo@piefed.social · 1 pts · 210d
I fail to see how that relates to what I said. I said anyone opposed to antifa is fascist by definition. The reverse isn’t automatically true.
A cow is an animal, not all animals are cows.
Also I never said that I supported Stalin in anything
MrSmith@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 210d
Sorry, I didn't mean it to be directed at you. It was sort of a rethorical thought.
Bgugi@lemmy.world · -50 pts · 211d
Anybody who's against North Korea is against democracy. Anybody who's against nazis is against socialism.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 211d
Just to be clear, your implication is that Antifa isn't actually anti-fascist, but is fascist themselves?
Do you realize how hard it would be for antifa, a decentralized concept that people self identify as, to band together to oppress everyone in favor of nationalism? And what nation would they be oppressing for?
If you are correct, and I want you be clear that you aren't and you're dumb, but if you are correct then I'm fucking impressed by antifa more than ever.
felsiq@piefed.zip · 13 pts · 211d
I think they’re just saying names aren’t always accurate, given the North Korea -> democracy (Democratic People’s Republic of Korea) and Nazi -> socialism (National Socialist) examples.
Antifa is great but sweeping statements based only on a name like the one they’re responding to are definitely not accurate
gray@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 211d
This assumes that antifa is an organization of some sort. If you think of antifa as an identity or aspiration the statement makes sense.
Edit misspell
Bgugi@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 211d
Felsiq is right on the money - it's a braindead argument regardless of how you feel about antifa.
I don't know why people itt keep saying that "it's not an organization" somehow absolves it of any misdirection regarding its name.
I suppose a more direct comparison is "if you're anti-pro-life, you're anti-life."
gray@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 211d
aski3252@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 211d
Antifa isn't a country, party or group though. It's a loose movement.
A similar thing would be environmental activist (or enva for short). Sure, you could call yourself environmental activist while adocating against the environment, but that wouldn't mean that environmental activism is bad for the environment, it would mean that you aren't actually an environmental activist..
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 211d
I'll take crap takes for 500.
Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 211d
glimse@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 211d
What
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 44 pts · 211d
Holy shit. That is awesome. Where do I sign up for Antifa?
Can I be an anti fascist with out being an Antifa member?
InputZero@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 211d
Nope, because antifa means anti-fascist. Are you a fascist? No? Then you're antifa. That easy.
slappyfuck@lemmy.ca · -22 pts · 211d
Yes you can! We desperately need to organize along anti fascist lines without the baggage of the mentally ill maximalist fake left who describe themselves as antifa.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 211d
Nice try, CIA. It’s not that easy to divide the left anymore.
SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 211d
Because it has already been done? Heyo!
slappyfuck@lemmy.ca · -20 pts · 211d
“Divide the left” lmao sure. Antifa is the CIA’s dream for the left.
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 211d
This picture makes my girl parts wet.
Akasazh@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 211d
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 43 pts · 211d
hahahah this is the dopest lineup I've ever seen.
I want to see this band, I want to watch those models, I want to fund this army
NatakuNox@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 211d
Uh ya. Turns out individuals who had to overcome social, economical, and political oppression seem to be POC, disabled, queer, or a women. They don't see any able bodied white Christan men at the front and freak out. It's because they think we'll treat the way they treat everyone else. So Ya conservatives just think everyone is as evil as they are
Mongostein@lemmy.ca · 39 pts · 211d
Standing up for the weak? That’s bad now?
Whostosay@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 211d
The enemy is both inferior and weak, but also they are taking over and should be feared. Please believe both, it's incredibly important that you do
dentoid@sopuli.xyz · 10 pts · 211d
They cant even stand up
starchylemming@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 211d
mechanised infantery in the front
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 211d
I look at that photo and think "hell yeah!"
CaptainBasculin@lemmy.ml · 28 pts · 211d
John Antifa, Destroyer of Faschists.
bytesonbike@discuss.online · 10 pts · 211d
And his sidekicks, Purple Mohawk and Kid Helmet in Wheels.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 1 pts · 211d
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 211d
Dumbasses are unable to understand that antifa is a nationwide movement not a centralized organization.
flying_sheep@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 211d
*international
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 211d
AlexLost@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 211d
No, you have to be against fascism. If you are neutral you would not be antifa
TrippaSnippa@aussie.zone · 8 pts · 211d
If you're "neutral" you're a fascist who's afraid to admit it.
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 211d
AlexLost@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 210d
Inaction is the sum of it though. Neutrality is benign, but you should probably remove it anyways, right. They aren't holding up their end of the bargain in a society, which is unfortunately taking a side on things. Not being at the table does not make them complicit by and large, but it allows it to happen.
They also allow good things to happen that they don't necessarily agree with, because they stand aside and grumble to themselves and their tiny circle if not outright ignoring it. It doesn't mean they should not be involved but humanity as a whole has a pact mentality, whereas it's someone else problem, where are we going today?
Tonava@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 210d
AlexLost@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 210d
I don't think there is a "right" answer. They allow good things to happen too, are they responsible for that as well, or just the bad things that happen? Bystanders are simply a fact of life, it's the doers who bear the responsibility. Look at mob mentality as an example.
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 210d
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 211d
I am as antifascist as everyone else
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 211d
Damn that’s inspiring
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 211d
I'm picking the one in the helmet for my team of hardened badasses. Anyone who owns a helmet is probably ready to go the distance.
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 211d
looks like a character from tank girl
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 211d
Strange guardians of the galaxy vibes from the 3 in the front. Drax, starlord, and rocket.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 211d
I was getting a Sarah Connor vibe from the middle lady
yermaw@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 211d
pipi1234@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 211d
I guess they prefer the orange turd that would be bested by a 10 years old in all fields but bullshitting.
axexrx@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 211d
Ive known some precocious young ones who could give him a run for his money
4 years ago, I was at a beach party, and stepped down to the water to be downwind of the group for a smoke. My best friends 6 year old walks up to me and asks "can I have a smoke?"
I tell him no way, hes way too young for such a bad habit. "But my parents let me smoke, all the time"
"Yeah right, they dont even smoke anymore (quit before his older sister was born)
"When we went to Russia. They let me smoke there. Everybody smokes there. Id have one after the sauna, and one after dinner each night."
It was true. They had just got back from russia, a couple months ago. (They were actually there visiting the wife's parents when the war broke out. Whole family managed to escape though, to a relatives home in Bulgaria, and her mom was in the process of emigrating to the US, although I think thats on hold because shes not sure Trumps America is better than Putins russia)
I knew the grandparents smoked, and dont know enough about Russian culture, so it might be plausible. I know the kids had been offered a shot of vodka, and had spit it out.
I ended up reiterating he was way too young for such a gross habit, and we went back up to the party. When I told his parents, they had a laugh about it. He would sit around after dinner / sauna with the men, and have a candy cigarette while they all smoked. She also added hed gotten way better at lying over that month.
cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 211d
For just a second I thought Terry Crews was leading Antifa
Grass@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 211d
Old spice bodywash is too powerful to stay in its own commercial!
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 211d
I saw the thumbnail of a topless dude in the middle of a crowd and thought it was gonna be Technoviking
Only for a split second but it was glorious
gmtom@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 211d
Nah he doesn't have the balls. Too concerned with keeping his image as clean and uncontroversial as possible and trying to sell himself in China
myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 211d
I was told in the super secret meeting that Elon Musk is the leader of antifa. He just doesn’t want the secret to get out.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 211d
Playing both sides, eh? That sneaky devil.
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 211d
Are we sure it's not a picture of folks waiting to get into a Death Grips show?
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 211d
Wonder what their superpowers are.
fakeman_pretendname@feddit.uk · 14 pts · 211d
The power of common human decency
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 211d
Uh, being Awesome?
CodingCarpenter@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 211d
That kid on the end there might get a make a wish That's sort of like a superpower
pipi1234@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 211d
He is like "I dare you, I double dare you motherfucker!"
null@piefed.nullspace.lol · 7 pts · 211d
My man up front has some real Mr Grips energy
AcidiclyBasicGlitch@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 211d
Hell fucking yeah, patriots!
This is our country. Let's take it back from the fascist oligarchy that exploits us.
SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 211d
Based on vibes alone, I'd vote for any combination of them for president and VP.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 211d
Any proof that it’s not AI? Not that I’m aware of.
Nor is there proof that it is AI, for that matter.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 211d
Reverse image search, friend:
google reverse image search
Tineye
Chasing down those links:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IronFrontUSA/comments/cs9hfi/a_journalist_for_the_blaze_took_this_photo_of_the/
The title implies a site called "The Blaze" posted the photo. I haven't found it yet, but it's probably somewhere here: https://web.archive.org/web/20190819161337/https://www.theblaze.com/
And of course, not a single post linked their source.
So the takeaway is:
It's not AI.
It's mid 2019, at the newest.
To all the jerks that post without linking a source: I want to punch you in the face. This is why we can't have nice things.
And yes. I'm looking at you, OP.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 211d
Yeah! Tumblr person I stole it from! What the f, man?!
Avicenna@programming.dev · 4 pts · 211d
gives me goosebumps
henfredemars@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 211d
My brain keeps wanting to see that guy as Morpheus.
nil@piefed.ca · 4 pts · 211d
looks like modernized mad max
Teppichbrand@feddit.org · 4 pts · 211d
Is there any proof that this is not AI? I really hope this is a genuine picture.
Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · -1 pts · 211d
Was the black guy photoshopped in?
I live in a black city, antifa =/= black.