I'm not shitting on it, and I strongly doubt it is the only show. They also didn't follow the comics most of the time so making it a big deal for this one event, where they also killed off another character that was on a semi interesting arc, is a silly thing to focus on.
Killing off main characters can be a good thing, but the show just didn't have any remaining compelling character arcs once they killed off the last thing that gave any reason for living to introduce yet another 'humans are the real monsters' villain.
Yes, but is their reason like mine where it isn't the death itself but how they lead up to it with the stupid trash can fake out and that they had already ruined any reason for rooting for the other characters?
It was the last straw in a series of decisions by the showrunners, not something that came out of the blue and ruined an otherwise enjoyable show.
I stopped watching mostly because of the ridiculousness that these guys had the logistics to shut down every single road and trail away from there, during a zombie apocalypse no less. No groups ran into problems? None? Then glen died. And I tried to watch it longer but the hopelessness led to pointlessness.
This was my event, but it triggered something larger in me. I stopped watching most things where people were being killed off for entertainment and shock value. I asked myself “What am I doing with my life and watching this?”.
I could be wrong, but I remember reading that it was the original ending, but someone didn’t like Light winning, so they added the other two characters to beat Light.
Ragnar in Vikings. None of his sons had the same charisma and the show just fell flat to me. I still try to finish the show from time time but I still haven't managed to.
I felt like Ubbe had a lot of charisma, and Ivar had potential if they hadn't written him like Ramsey Snow. He should have been smart, unpredictable and morally grey, not a complete psychopath.
Same, almost. It was jarring but I watched for Kevin spacey and Robin wright and their sheer talent.
But wow, the shock value. That may have been the first time I was palms-to-mouth shocked. Not until the crosswalk incident in the Billy Bob Thornton lawyer show was I that shocked again.
The premise was that you stopped watching a show because of a character, but you're talking about something that happened at the end of the wrap-up movie, so there wasn't any more show to stop watching.
But yeah, that was one of the biggest shocks I've ever had.
I put off watching the last season of DS9 for a while, after they killed off Jadzia Dax in a really forced way. The worst part was that there was another episode that season where she almost died and it would've been a much more personal and appropriate way for her to go, but instead she's randomly at the wrong place when the big bad shows up doing main plot stuff and that's it. It was incredibly disappointing. Apparently there was some drama with contract shenanigans behind the scenes, so they ended up having to write it in last minute.
I did eventually come back and watch the last season and I'm glad I did, but I legit almost dropped it.
I honestly think Abraham hurt way more now that I'm thinking about it. Cause I identified with homie! I'm huge, fairly strong, but went bald early. Sorry about waxing nostalgic, but I had almost forgot about homie until now.
Woodhouse and then Malory in Archer. i actually really enjoyed the coma seasons, but they’re damn good proof that you can’t come back home after you jump the shark.
yes, but that didn’t force the showrunners to paint themselves into a corner and then try to walk through the fresh paint as though everything was normal.
This one really sucked, to me. There's so much more they could have done with the character!
It was nice to learn, from an interview with the actor, that he intentionally signed only a one season contract, and was a big fan of the story that wrote Hemmer out.
He didn't say why, but I know many actors regret the time in the make-up chair, required to play an interesting alien.
The characters death came as a shock to me as it was too abrupt for a core member of the story. I immediately looked to see it something happened during production only to find there was credible accusations of sexual predatory behavior.
To this day I'm still pissed off at it all. He was great in the role, and was a fantastic ambassador for the show in social media and at conventions. Honestly seemed like he loved the character. To just ruin all that, plus causing difficulties for the show and his castmates, by sexting with fans was hugely disappointing.
There were a lot of questionably sadistic choices made by the producers in Game of Thrones, but when the >!orphans!< were strung up burned to death I said to my parter 'ok that's last warning. The show isn't good enough to endure this crap'.
Then the red wedding happened next season and it was full of sadism - unsuspecting soldiers gruesomely and gleefully murdered by their comrades, >!foetus stabbed in the womb!<.
And that was the last Game of Thrones episode I watched. I don't have any desire to revisit it.
A fantastic production in every other sense, ruined by extreme sadism at every corner.
To be fair, both of these things happened in the books. Except the Red Wedding with regards to Talisa/Jeyne, but everything else happened. They were following it.
Oh I'm not implying they didn't happen in the books. But there's a significant experiential difference between the written word and having it dramatically filmed, expertly recreated with special effects, centre-framed and shots lingered upon.
The showrunners revelled in the sadism and sexual sadism way too much for my tastes.
The baby being slaughtered by the queens guards (illegitimate offspring of the king) in the first season is a perfect example.
Harsh. Immoral. Brutal. Gets everything it needs to explain across to the viewer and does it all off camera.
Shots can also be partial or glimpses instead of lingering and detailed (like the young prince's sexual-sadistic murder of the kind-hearted brothel girl).
Just wanted to say I've felt the exact same way about violence in movies/shows too. It's not that I want it removed, it's that it must matter to the plot. Not just be a prop for fan service.
To be fair, we didn't literally see the kids that Theon's henchmen killed being killed. Only their charred bodies.
Shots can also be partial or glimpses instead of lingering and detailed (like the young prince’s sexual-sadistic murder of the kind-hearted brothel girl).
I don't see why you find that somehow more acceptable than the charred kids that Theon killed in the way the show presented it.
No, I thought you pinpointed them as acceptable ways to portray brutality in a world like GOT
Out of interest, do you think people who enjoy slasher/gore-horror shows/films are sadistic? Or that people who write them are?
Like a webcomic I once read is Crossed. Have you heard of it? It's incredibly violent and could never be a TV show. It's about a zombie-type virus that makes people into psychopathic, deranged killers. The sign of infection of a rash in the shape of a cross on their faces (although its also very quick, like in 28 days later).
The only one for me was Matthew Crawley in Downton Abbey. I don't recall now exactly why, but reading the plot overview, I think it was because the aristocrat/commoner tension was what held my interest. The show was mostly a period soap opera with some social commentary elements. With his death, it felt like losing the drama and keeping the melodrama. (Although that plot line was mostly wrapped up by the end of the 3rd series, too.) I don't recall being angry, or deciding not to watch further, I just never got around to it.
Uhhhggg that one anime with the two brothers and the mechs with drills.
I could not handle when sunglasses bro died. He was literally the only reason I liked that show, which I know is kind of the point because the little bro doesn't even like his own show when his brother is gone, but fuck!
Oh, and I almost quit Angel multiple times back when it was a new episode every week. The first one because the actor died, I understood and it was sad but not worth quitting.
The next because Charisma got pregnant? (Even though I didn't know why Cordy was killed off then) Then the character of Fred, but at least she got a new character that I grew to really like. But hated how Wesley's death happened. Darla's death was pretty epic though. That show was so all over the place.
Sora. The last (latest?) entry of the kingdom hearts series was a slog of pointless, elongated, wish fulfillment cutscenes. It wasn’t his “death” that made me uninterested in whatever the future brings, but it did provide an easy out.
There was a fairly decent martial arts manhwa called Bowblade.
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
They introduced a female love interest pretty deep into the story. She was the first character who was openly and unconditionally supportive of the main character. Unusually, they immediately progressed their relationship, got married, and had a child.
Of course this beacon of hope and warmth only existed to cause trauma. A terrible bad guy kidnapped her, against the advice of literally every other character. He tortured her to extremes only possible in a fantasy novel, then she died in the hero’s arms.
:::
It didn't stop me watching the show, but in Batwoman S2 when Oshun kills the manipulative psychologist in such a petty asshole-ish way, it just ruined so much intrigue for me and I stopped caring about him as a character.
The show had a lot of other problems, and pivoting into ACAB drivel (oh but its private security being criticized not cops so its totally different lolololol) really made me want to give up. But S3 dialled up the sapphic angst so I was determined to get that far.
Then it got cancelled anyway. So I guess killing off half the interesting characters made everyone stop watching it anyway.p
87 Comments
snooggums@piefed.world · 45 pts · 161d
Walking Dead (show): Glenn
Glenn and Maggie were the only thing worth rooting for at that point and losing one of them ruined the last thing interesting about the show.
Skavau@piefed.social · 14 pts · 161d
TWD is the only show that gets shit on for that time it followed the comics.
snooggums@piefed.world · 9 pts · 161d
I'm not shitting on it, and I strongly doubt it is the only show. They also didn't follow the comics most of the time so making it a big deal for this one event, where they also killed off another character that was on a semi interesting arc, is a silly thing to focus on.
Killing off main characters can be a good thing, but the show just didn't have any remaining compelling character arcs once they killed off the last thing that gave any reason for living to introduce yet another 'humans are the real monsters' villain.
Skavau@piefed.social · 6 pts · 161d
Tbf, I meant generally.
Its the most common reason people seem to have for why they quit the show.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus · 6 pts · 161d
Probably because it seemed like a reversal. Glenn is nobody in the comics so when this happens.
snooggums@piefed.world · 5 pts · 161d
Yes, but is their reason like mine where it isn't the death itself but how they lead up to it with the stupid trash can fake out and that they had already ruined any reason for rooting for the other characters?
It was the last straw in a series of decisions by the showrunners, not something that came out of the blue and ruined an otherwise enjoyable show.
P00ptart@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 161d
I stopped watching mostly because of the ridiculousness that these guys had the logistics to shut down every single road and trail away from there, during a zombie apocalypse no less. No groups ran into problems? None? Then glen died. And I tried to watch it longer but the hopelessness led to pointlessness.
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 161d
I hated the cliffhanger ... not showing the person(s) was just cheap.
Skavau@piefed.social · 3 pts · 161d
The trash can thing didn't help, to be sure.
redsand@infosec.pub · 11 pts · 161d
It already felt like the writers weren't going anywhere before that, Glenn ended up being the last straw.
ApollosArrow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
This was my event, but it triggered something larger in me. I stopped watching most things where people were being killed off for entertainment and shock value. I asked myself “What am I doing with my life and watching this?”.
PiraHxCx@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 42 pts · 161d
My mom quit Game of Thrones because they killed the dog in the first episode
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 15 pts · 161d
She made the right decision.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 161d
My wife quit GoT when Joffrey ordered the dire wolf killed. Same reason, kinda.
PiraHxCx@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 161d
oh yeah, that's the dog I was talking about
tias@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 161d
Same for me, except in Kung Pow.
z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml · 33 pts · 162d
L's Death in DeathNote. Near was cool and all, but the entire story after L dies felt like an epilogue rather than a continuation of the plot.
tiramichu@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 161d
I stopped reading the manga after L died, and decided to never even start watching the anime. Death Note without L was just worthless to me.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 161d
The anime is fantastic if you stop after L dies
ApollosArrow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
I could be wrong, but I remember reading that it was the original ending, but someone didn’t like Light winning, so they added the other two characters to beat Light.
IWW4@lemmy.zip · 32 pts · 162d
Joel’s death in The Last of Us. It was a bad idea in the second game and it had the same effect on the show.
Viceversa@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 161d
But bastard deserved it.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 161d
Yeah, he was a piece of shit.
THB@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 162d
Ragnar in Vikings. None of his sons had the same charisma and the show just fell flat to me. I still try to finish the show from time time but I still haven't managed to.
Skavau@piefed.social · 3 pts · 162d
I felt like Ubbe had a lot of charisma, and Ivar had potential if they hadn't written him like Ramsey Snow. He should have been smart, unpredictable and morally grey, not a complete psychopath.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 162d
Zoe Barnes (Kate Mara) in House of Cards. Until her death, I didn't realize she was the only reason I was watching the show.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 161d
Same, almost. It was jarring but I watched for Kevin spacey and Robin wright and their sheer talent.
But wow, the shock value. That may have been the first time I was palms-to-mouth shocked. Not until the crosswalk incident in the Billy Bob Thornton lawyer show was I that shocked again.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 161d
He killed the reporter at the end of the original, so they were quite clever to have her survive season one and then do it immediately.
Timbo1970@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 161d
Not a show, but a movie spin-off. When they killed Wash in Serenity. I knew I wasn't going to like it as much as the tv shows.
MushuChupacabra@piefed.world · 7 pts · 161d
If they meant for that death to hurt a lot, it worked.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 161d
Wash and Sheppard both, man. 💔
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 161d
The premise was that you stopped watching a show because of a character, but you're talking about something that happened at the end of the wrap-up movie, so there wasn't any more show to stop watching.
But yeah, that was one of the biggest shocks I've ever had.
portifornia@piefed.social · 2 pts · 161d
MrEff@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
Reaver Cleaning Company: putting spears through the Wash since 2005!
Objection@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 161d
I put off watching the last season of DS9 for a while, after they killed off Jadzia Dax in a really forced way. The worst part was that there was another episode that season where she almost died and it would've been a much more personal and appropriate way for her to go, but instead she's randomly at the wrong place when the big bad shows up doing main plot stuff and that's it. It was incredibly disappointing. Apparently there was some drama with contract shenanigans behind the scenes, so they ended up having to write it in last minute.
I did eventually come back and watch the last season and I'm glad I did, but I legit almost dropped it.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 161d
The last half of the last season of DS9 was some of the most exciting TV I've ever seen. That final arc was great.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 161d
Glen in the walking dead. I was already on the posts during the governor arch. But Glenn fucking broke me.
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 161d
Hard same. Then they immediately killed Abraham after, literally murdered every reason I had for watching that show.
Not only were they the best characters, they were the only good actors throughout all of the main cast.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 161d
I honestly think Abraham hurt way more now that I'm thinking about it. Cause I identified with homie! I'm huge, fairly strong, but went bald early. Sorry about waxing nostalgic, but I had almost forgot about homie until now.
zemo@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 161d
When Mulder went away to wherever he went in later seasons of X-Files.
mimic_dev@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 161d
Sweets in bones. I hated him when he showed up. Then he won me over and then he's gone :(
Yliaster@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 161d
L from Death Note.
Kinda got boring for the other half, although Near-Mellow was okay after a while.
Chippys_mittens@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 162d
yuri@pawb.social · 8 pts · 161d
Woodhouse and then Malory in Archer. i actually really enjoyed the coma seasons, but they’re damn good proof that you can’t come back home after you jump the shark.
DrWorm@piefed.blahaj.zone · 14 pts · 161d
You do know that both of the actors that played those characters died in real life, right?
yuri@pawb.social · 1 pts · 159d
yes, but that didn’t force the showrunners to paint themselves into a corner and then try to walk through the fresh paint as though everything was normal.
portifornia@piefed.social · 7 pts · 161d
Shayla from Mr. Robot. I just lover her so much for some reason.
imjustmsk@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 161d
for real, but did you actually didn't finsig the show?
reddig33@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 161d
Hemmer on Strange New Worlds.
pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 161d
This one really sucked, to me. There's so much more they could have done with the character!
It was nice to learn, from an interview with the actor, that he intentionally signed only a one season contract, and was a big fan of the story that wrote Hemmer out.
He didn't say why, but I know many actors regret the time in the make-up chair, required to play an interesting alien.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 7 pts · 161d
Not one person in particular, but I gave up on 'The 100' after the space people decided to massacre the locals about two weeks after landing.
It seemed like the show was just one massacre after another at that point.
Nomad@infosec.pub · 7 pts · 161d
Alex death in the expanse. Rounded off the experience and end of the series but also marked the end for me.
Grimy@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 161d
The actor was asking 15 year old fans for nudes. It's a shame because Alex was the best and is still around in the books.
doc@fedia.io · 11 pts · 161d
The characters death came as a shock to me as it was too abrupt for a core member of the story. I immediately looked to see it something happened during production only to find there was credible accusations of sexual predatory behavior.
To this day I'm still pissed off at it all. He was great in the role, and was a fantastic ambassador for the show in social media and at conventions. Honestly seemed like he loved the character. To just ruin all that, plus causing difficulties for the show and his castmates, by sexting with fans was hugely disappointing.
Nomad@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 161d
Im not defending the actor. The character though.... Urgh
Grimy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 161d
He was by far my favorite character as well :( . I'm happy he will be in the new game coming out.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 161d
There were a lot of questionably sadistic choices made by the producers in Game of Thrones, but when the >!orphans!< were strung up burned to death I said to my parter 'ok that's last warning. The show isn't good enough to endure this crap'.
Then the red wedding happened next season and it was full of sadism - unsuspecting soldiers gruesomely and gleefully murdered by their comrades, >!foetus stabbed in the womb!<.
And that was the last Game of Thrones episode I watched. I don't have any desire to revisit it.
A fantastic production in every other sense, ruined by extreme sadism at every corner.
Skavau@piefed.social · 10 pts · 161d
To be fair, both of these things happened in the books. Except the Red Wedding with regards to Talisa/Jeyne, but everything else happened. They were following it.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 161d
Oh I'm not implying they didn't happen in the books. But there's a significant experiential difference between the written word and having it dramatically filmed, expertly recreated with special effects, centre-framed and shots lingered upon.
The showrunners revelled in the sadism and sexual sadism way too much for my tastes.
Skavau@piefed.social · 5 pts · 161d
How would you depict a world as low and as violent as ASOIAF without doing that for specific plot moments like that though?
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
Just one example?
The baby being slaughtered by the queens guards (illegitimate offspring of the king) in the first season is a perfect example.
Harsh. Immoral. Brutal. Gets everything it needs to explain across to the viewer and does it all off camera.
Shots can also be partial or glimpses instead of lingering and detailed (like the young prince's sexual-sadistic murder of the kind-hearted brothel girl).
Whole series is a sadists wet dream.
Euler_eix@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
Just wanted to say I've felt the exact same way about violence in movies/shows too. It's not that I want it removed, it's that it must matter to the plot. Not just be a prop for fan service.
You do a better job of explaining it
Skavau@piefed.social · 1 pts · 161d
To be fair, we didn't literally see the kids that Theon's henchmen killed being killed. Only their charred bodies.
I don't see why you find that somehow more acceptable than the charred kids that Theon killed in the way the show presented it.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 160d
I don't, I was giving another example of a lingering and detailed shot that didn't need to be to serve the story. Maybe I could've been clearer.
Skavau@piefed.social · 1 pts · 160d
No, I thought you pinpointed them as acceptable ways to portray brutality in a world like GOT
Out of interest, do you think people who enjoy slasher/gore-horror shows/films are sadistic? Or that people who write them are?
Like a webcomic I once read is Crossed. Have you heard of it? It's incredibly violent and could never be a TV show. It's about a zombie-type virus that makes people into psychopathic, deranged killers. The sign of infection of a rash in the shape of a cross on their faces (although its also very quick, like in 28 days later).
IronBird@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 161d
you sound like the kind of person who enjoys laugh tracks
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 161d
Comments like yours are one reason Lemmy is growing so slowly.
Gonna do my part and block your existence from my feed.
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 161d
The only one for me was Matthew Crawley in Downton Abbey. I don't recall now exactly why, but reading the plot overview, I think it was because the aristocrat/commoner tension was what held my interest. The show was mostly a period soap opera with some social commentary elements. With his death, it felt like losing the drama and keeping the melodrama. (Although that plot line was mostly wrapped up by the end of the 3rd series, too.) I don't recall being angry, or deciding not to watch further, I just never got around to it.
doc@fedia.io · 1 pts · 161d
Same. Not an intentional drop for me but had no interest to continue after that and didn't resume when the next season started.
horseloaf@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 161d
Hildur (played by Silje Torp) in "Vikingane" ("Norsemen" in English).
DaMonsterKnees@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 161d
Marissa Cooper. Fight me.
Evil_Shrubbery@thelemmy.club · 3 pts · 161d
Idk, but I know what character death made me watch the rest of the series that I would stop otherwise.
It's Tuvix ofc.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 161d
Uhhhggg that one anime with the two brothers and the mechs with drills.
I could not handle when sunglasses bro died. He was literally the only reason I liked that show, which I know is kind of the point because the little bro doesn't even like his own show when his brother is gone, but fuck!
Couldn't do it, man.
Furbag@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 161d
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, and same here bro.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 161d
THAT WAS IT! thank you!
ericatty@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 161d
Oh, and I almost quit Angel multiple times back when it was a new episode every week. The first one because the actor died, I understood and it was sad but not worth quitting. The next because Charisma got pregnant? (Even though I didn't know why Cordy was killed off then) Then the character of Fred, but at least she got a new character that I grew to really like. But hated how Wesley's death happened. Darla's death was pretty epic though. That show was so all over the place.
sorter_plainview@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 161d
Janice in Barry. I will probably go back to watching the series, but the finale kind of ruined the things.
themoken@startrek.website · 3 pts · 161d
If it helps, the show really deep dives the consequences of that, and really all of Barry's actions.
walden@wetshav.ing · 1 pts · 161d
Great show
zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev · 3 pts · 161d
John, John, John, John John John John John John and the rest. No consequences ever.
Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 161d
Sora. The last (latest?) entry of the kingdom hearts series was a slog of pointless, elongated, wish fulfillment cutscenes. It wasn’t his “death” that made me uninterested in whatever the future brings, but it did provide an easy out.
ericatty@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 161d
There's an anime in its 3rd season right now, that when a character death from the manga happens... I'll stop watching soon after. Does that count?
imjustmsk@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
I wish Rita was looking at the same moon at the same moment, I like that - connected by light
GeeDubHayduke@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 161d
Jake, from the Dark Tower. Not because of Jake, but because of Oy. 😭😭😭
binarytobis@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
There was a fairly decent martial arts manhwa called Bowblade.
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler They introduced a female love interest pretty deep into the story. She was the first character who was openly and unconditionally supportive of the main character. Unusually, they immediately progressed their relationship, got married, and had a child.
Of course this beacon of hope and warmth only existed to cause trauma. A terrible bad guy kidnapped her, against the advice of literally every other character. He tortured her to extremes only possible in a fantasy novel, then she died in the hero’s arms. :::
Awful writing. Just awful.
sickday@fedia.io · 1 pts · 161d
Barristan Selmy in GoT Rita in Dexter
peacefulpixel@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 161d
Wataba@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 161d
It didn't stop me watching the show, but in Batwoman S2 when Oshun kills the manipulative psychologist in such a petty asshole-ish way, it just ruined so much intrigue for me and I stopped caring about him as a character.
The show had a lot of other problems, and pivoting into ACAB drivel (oh but its private security being criticized not cops so its totally different lolololol) really made me want to give up. But S3 dialled up the sapphic angst so I was determined to get that far.
Then it got cancelled anyway. So I guess killing off half the interesting characters made everyone stop watching it anyway.p
bunkyprewster@startrek.website · 1 pts · 161d
He should have died under that dumpster.