A brief recap: a few weeks ago I’d taken the $155,000 Range Rover I was testing out to run some errands with my wife in Plymouth, Minnesota. I was backing out of a parking space in front of my local Kohl’s when four cop cars came screaming up and “initiated a box and pin on the vehicle,” as the police report says. Hands on their guns, the officers ordered us out of the vehicle, patted us down, and eventually told us the Range Rover’s license plate—New Jersey 34 10 DTM—was stolen, they suspected the vehicle itself was stolen too, and they’d used Flock cameras to track me down over the last two days.
The scenario involving my wife and I is just one of many like it. Thomas noted that the system is 99% accurate today, but it’s performing 20 billion reads a month. That 1% error rate, of which I was a part of in June, makes for two hundred million misreads a month.
131 Comments
73QjabParc34Vebq@piefed.blahaj.zone · 208 pts · 45d
A- USA doesn't have standardised plates? Not even 1 per state, but 8000?!
2- Fuck mass survalance, fuck armed cops, fuck Flock.
Bbbbbbbbbbb@lemmy.world · 72 pts · 45d
Each state has different levels of customization with different background images. I like plate customization, its a form of self expression.
MangoCats@feddit.it · 42 pts · 45d
Customized images, yes. Overlapping alphanumeric codes (two vehicles with the same sequence?) NO. Maybe it was necessary in the 1960s, but it is long since past time for issuance of alpha-numeric unique identifiers to become... unique throughout the states.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 45d
How many digits to we need for 297,500,000 plates (as of 2026).
Plus we should probably include Canada and Mexico, since they have the same sized plates and cross the borders regularly.
Canada also has custom plates and different designs in each province too.
Also unless I’m mistaken, when Britain was in the EU, it didn’t use standardized plates like the rest of the member states, right?
JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz · 31 pts · 45d
There are no standard plates in the EU. The only matching thing is the country code on the left side.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 20 pts · 45d
That’s a lot closer to standardized than the Canada or the US.
TrollTrollrolllol@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
Just in Minnesota, and I don't even think that's all of them
Tim_Bisley@piefed.social · 1 pts · 45d
Colorado has a ton. I couldn't find any images showing all of them though, just a couple collections of older plates.
JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 44d
Well, that's true.
But one fun quirk is that (at least here in Finland) the EU plate isn't mandatory, you can get a clean one with no country code but then if you leave the country you are required to indicate your country of origin with a bumper sticker. So the automated license plate reader might need to be able to figure out from what country this is, and often that sticker will be stuck to the corner of the rear window.
Also a reminder - there will be no sticker on the front :)
kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 43d
it's the country of San Francisco, obviously!
or wait, i think it was Soviet Finland actually.
MangoCats@feddit.it · 20 pts · 45d
6 characters (A-Z 0-9) gives you 2,176,782,336 combinations.
Even if you take out some confusing combos like O0, 1I, 5S, 8B ... 6 characters of 31 different kinds gives you 887,503,681
Bbbbbbbbbbb@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
What about 7 characters?
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 45d
You wouldn't believe it. Even more!
MangoCats@feddit.it · 10 pts · 45d
the formula is number of possible symbols (letters, numbers) S to the power of the number of characters on the plate N, or S^N, so if you add one more character out of 31 possible symbols, then you multiply by (another) 31 available combinations.
Kissaki@feddit.org · 4 pts · 45d
Kissaki@feddit.org · 1 pts · 45d
Exatron@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
The number drops even more when offensive words or phrases are removed. Nobody's getting a license plate that reads P00 A55 or a bad word for black people.
Jako302@feddit.org · 1 pts · 45d
Then make it 7 or 8 characters like most countries have. Its not like that wouldn't fit on plates. With 8 chars you could remove 2/3 of all combinations and still have an order of magnitude in reserve.
MangoCats@feddit.it · 1 pts · 45d
https://www.reddit.com/r/LICENSEPLATES/comments/1ux71nl/the_whole_sqz_a55_story/
mangobanana@discuss.online · 1 pts · 45d
Ewwww I'm not reading anything on Reddit
Buckshot@programming.dev · 4 pts · 45d
A UK plate is 2 letters, 2 numbers, 3 letters. That's over a billion combinations.
BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 43d
It's 3 letters and 4 numbers
snooggums@piefed.world · 21 pts · 45d
Plates should be standardized. Bumper stickers and other things can be used for personalization.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 45d
Says who, you?
snooggums@piefed.world · 31 pts · 45d
I wrote the words, so yes.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · -23 pts · 45d
Oh, well you’re nobody. They don’t need to be standardized and will remain as they are lol.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 45d
The American freedom!
To choose the license plate...
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 45d
The day is saved
Sims@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 45d
Not the guy you replied to, but plates have a purpose that are not necessarily compatible with Art and personalization. Not defending a broken society, just pointing it out.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 45d
Their purpose is perfectly compatible with art and personalization.
arrow74@lemmy.zip · -9 pts · 45d
They work perfectly fine. I'd argue these custom ones are easier to read and remember.
Honestly there's no issues if you're not a flock camera
Jako302@feddit.org · 2 pts · 45d
If the same combination is issued multiple times then no, they don't work as intended.
The issue here wasn't that the license plate was too colorful, it was that the missing national standardisation allows for over a thousand cars with the same plate.
arrow74@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 45d
Which is why they don't do that. 1 combination per state
So theoretically you can have the same combo 50 times, but it would be on 50 different state plates which are labeled as such.
You've made up a fake scenario that does not occur. There are not thousands of cars with the same plate.
CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 44d
It's not the same combination used multiple times it's a similar combination from different states. Can you describe what the actual issue is here if you're not a Flock camera? How often have you personally confused plates from two different vehicles?
In this case it was Flock cameras not reading the entire plate and omitting two numbers from it. If you're really that concerned about plates getting mixed up, you should also be demanding that no two plates share similar numbers even when omitting some of the numbers from the sequence.
Snapz@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 45d
You have bigger problems if you're relying on a custom license plate to express a personality...
Risk isn't worth "reward', especially when you hear things like certain backwards states trying to mandate a default " in god we trust" of other biblical theme so that people then need to opt out intentionally, in turn their vehicles becoming potential targets for zealots and cops to harass.
Just mandate national design with black text on white background
potpotato@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 45d
The story goes on to talk about specialty plates and designs with confederate flags.
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/434-artistic-license/
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca · -44 pts · 45d
That's like embellishing a prison camp number with a fun design. That's not self-expression that's morbid.
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 51 pts · 45d
What the actual fuck is this comparison? I'm extremely anti-car, and even I'm wondering what has to be wrong with you.
Incidentally got a chuckle out of me that you're saying this about what's often effectively a social green-beard (e.g. plates for sports teams, hobbies, causes, etc.).
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca · -10 pts · 45d
Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't be registering cars I'm just saying a licence plate is intended as a vehicle tracking ID. That's the whole point. I always considered licence plate customization at best tacky. If I want to add some decals and bumper stickers and such, I'm not going to put it on a state issued ID tag.
For the record, I think customized graphics on your credit/debit cards, check designs, etc. is just as morbid. You don't "own" these things, they're not part of your identity, and letting them trick your brain into pretending that they belong to you and are an extension of your "self" by adding fancy designs is kind of gross. They are symbols that reference you, they are not a part of you.
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 45d
Everyone here and everyone who gets them knows and understands that.
I didn't say or even imply you were, and the fact you clarified that anyway is bizarre – because it'd be completely batshit.
Brother, my god, it is a fucking identifier plate on your car; no one's getting "tricked", and I don't know if you can believe this, but people can enjoy making objects into extensions of themselves without becoming slaves to The Man – if you can apprehend that someone in Kentucky who pays $25/year or some shit to signal that they're into amateur radio isn't offering up their soul in a plate-shaped vessel on the altar of Rebecca Goodman.
Even if you want to bring ALPRs into this, custom plates existed long, long before we had the technology to turn plates into mass-surveillance tools.
This is so goddamn snobby that it's painful.
GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca · -5 pts · 45d
I'm kind of in agreement with him, in that I don't see the point in paying extra to have an ID on my car that tells The Man more about me than I think they need to know, but I don't think it makes me a shill or (much of) a sucker if I get them. Everyone, including me, makes less than ideal choices. This poor choice is less egregious than most.
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 45d
Literally what on Earth are you doing to your license plate that tells The Man more about you in a way that realistically matters? You don't need your Ashley Madison credentials to create a custom plate.
If you're worried about dragnet surveillance, I guess it'll help them when they divide the prison camps by baseball team. If you're worried about automated surveillance like by ALPRs then, uh, pretty sure the model whose literal entire purpose is to create its own features for classification will find abundant other ways to uniquely fingerprint and extract actual, pertinent information about you. And if you're worried about targeted surveillance by humans scrutinizing you down to what your custom plate says about you, then god help you, and viva México.
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca · -9 pts · 45d
I'm not really concerned what your opinion of me is. You think it's snobby to not waste money on a stylized government ID? Because that makes sense. If you want to plaster your car in your favourite things, go for it. Live your best life. If you want to paint your car like Lisa Frank exploded in a mist of glitter on it, I'm totally down. But the plate, that's not ever an extension of you. It isn't yours and it never was, and the illusion that it is, is kind of sad. But clearly, my opinion isn't a popular one, so I'll leave off. We're clearly not going to agree on this.
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 45d
If you could read, you'd know I think that it's fine one way or another and that what's snobby is your obnoxious attitude toward people who do get one. The difference between you and I is that I see it as a waste of money for me and leave it at that because I don't pretend to be superior and enlightened when my level of insight that the unwashed masses surely lack is "um, didn't you know that license plates are tracking IDs?? by the government??? Fucking idiot, Sandra, with your stupid fucking 'museums are for everyone' plate with Snoopy on it."
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 45d
You're about the whole "fake choice" people get in society thing?
I understand that, but I think you went overboard a little 😅
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 44d
Sort of, but this is slightly different. It's an active obfuscation of an externally imposed identity element. A justifiable one in this case, but an external imposition in the first place, and external identity elements should always be held at arm's length because they tend to get abused.
Incorporating it into your material identity dulls your awareness of the fact this representation of you, isn't "you", and how it's used isn't up to you. Creating an attachment to it has risks, risks you are inclined to ignore if mentally it's just another personalized bumper sticker in your perception.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 41d
Guess it's just human nature, decorating our prisons, like we dress up knowing our bodies are our prisons too.
I mean you can see the good part in it, IMO, which is human creativity.
Freedom is terrifying, so people prefer being left with few premade choices.I don't think that in itself is always bad, but we should always think of what those choices are, and why.
Like numberplates on cars seems justifiable just because otherwise there would be chaos. Where I grew up every human had a number (and still do), where I live now they don't because of ww2 (rounding up of people was so simple when everyone was in a list), so it's walking on a razor's edge at all time I guess.
So continue questioning, but don't let your life get consumed by it I guess.
Cheers from Europe!
SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 45d
Nike's new IrisNet profit-sharing plan nicely puts a stylish glow on my shoe logos when the fashionably discreet LaceCam notices the right eyes noticing my shoes, and at this rate I will pay the shoes off in 54 months!
mangobanana@discuss.online · 1 pts · 44d
Tbf credit card designs are free. And the only one that I have that you can design your own card is discover. The rest are all just whatever they send
mangobanana@discuss.online · 1 pts · 45d
I just think it's a stupid waste of money. Why would spend 50 bucks yearly on a personalized plate how stupid
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 44d
I mean it's not a wrong take, it doesn't make financial sense.
CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 44d
Lol where do you draw the line here?
You might as well argue that it's tacky to wear clothing with colors and designs, like a specific genre of music, like certain genres of movies, like certain jokes, food, hairstyles, etc. All of these things are 'symbols' that reference you.
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 44d
False equivalence. Expressing yourself through material means, like art, music, heck, even bumper stickers, that's perfectly reasonable. You don't "own" that license plate. It's not yours, its an identity being externally pushed on you. They let you customize it somewhat, to make it feel like something you're choosing to do. You're not choosing it. It's not an expression of the self, it's an identity externally imposed, and that's a meaningful distinction, even if you understand and agree with why it's being imposed.
CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 44d
But you don't own the art you watch/listen to. You don't own the message on the bumper sticker. There is no difference.
Bakkoda@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 45d
No. Just no.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 59 pts · 45d
A - The USA is 50 countries in a trench coat
2 - Correct
Colonel_Panic_@eviltoast.org · 3 pts · 44d
The USA is 50 corporations in a trench coat.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 44d
No stop it that’s ridiculous. There’s only 4 these days, they bought up all the competition.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 45d
Tribal nations also have their own plates in some cases. Mine does.
daychilde@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 45d
A, but then 2? You monster! :)
greybeard@feddit.online · 6 pts · 45d
As bbbbbbbbbbb said, every state not only has their own plates, but multiple plate designs. Some states, the variations will be completely different colors and number length. Absolutely no consistency.
Mirshe@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
Many states also don't (usually) require old plates to be turned in when designs change. My state's gone through two design changes since I started driving in 2010 and I still have my original plates. I've seen people driving with plates from the 80s.
farmgineer@nord.pub · 1 pts · 44d
Also their own licenses and licensing procedures.
the_crotch@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 42d
Crazy that people are pushing for more federal control under an administration that exists to show us why federal control is a bad idea
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 179 pts · 45d
Fascists don't particularly care about false positives. The cameras are operating as intended.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 45d
Absolutely this, and why they’re fine with executing innocent people on death row, cops killing people who were running away or complying and not a threat, or some DA imprisoning someone for decades on crappy evidence only to be found innocent after half their life is gone.
Agent641@lemmy.world · 127 pts · 45d
👉 The system is working exactly as intended and must be destroyed
Rentlar@lemmy.ca · 118 pts · 45d
Yes, the Flock system is working correctly, as a tool for police to stalk and harass innocent people.
CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 44d
Also a tool to give plausible deniability when shit hits the fan.
ToiletFlushShowerScream@piefed.world · 63 pts · 45d
False positives are your problem, not the cops. You should try not being unlucky next time.
Also - I'm so sorry you had to go through that, fuck flock.
0x0@infosec.pub · 30 pts · 45d
Lol no, cops are definitely part of the problem. This reaction over fake plates is not sane
ToiletFlushShowerScream@piefed.world · 3 pts · 44d
You are right, I guess I was being sarcastic about there being multiple layers of failures here, and the only one who didn't contribute to a failure (columnist/driver) is the one paying the price.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 45d
time for some target practice. sorry if they get in my bullets way while it's headed towards the practice target.
boelder@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 44d
Nah, cops are the problem, too.
lobut@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 44d
Guilty until proven that innocent unless you're a politician or CEO or celebrity or whatever ...
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 50 pts · 45d
They always claim everything they do is correct and working. To admit otherwise means opening the department up to a lawsuit they may actually lose their jobs over.
xenomor@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 45d
It is working perfectly as intended. It is intended to facilitate fascist authority, siphon wealth from municipalities, and help make cops feel tough so they can more efficiently lord over their communities.
Kissaki@feddit.org · 37 pts · 45d
They drove up and didn't check/verify the plate before engaging? That seems stupid and lacking responsibility.
What was it, two cop cars? Then I assume four cops? Always makes me wonder if the engagement is in a warranted amount. I assume it's the norm in the US, maybe it's necessary for "stolen car", although I'm skeptical, and it certainly makes it worse for the falsely accused exposed to it. And it makes the lack of verification, making it not just a flock false positive but an engagement false positive, victimizing civilians, worse.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 29 pts · 44d
So, 4 cars, who knows how many cops.
Really, this is a story about how absurd cops are in the USA.
At no point in this tale was there ever a car reported stolen. It was only a set of license plates that went missing. So, at no point was there a car thief, you can't have a car thief if there's no stolen car. Obviously, if there's no car thief, there can't be any reason to assume that the person in the "stolen car" will be violent. Yet, somehow the police charged up aggressively, boxing him in using 4 cars, jumping out and shouting, hands on their guns.
The cops even claimed that their reaction was "lucky" for the guy:
And the guy considers himself lucky too:
If he hadn't been as calm, he might have been killed by the cops because he might not have reacted as calmly.
The fact that this is being framed as a "Flock" issue is absurd. It's like a story about a sensor in front of the orphan crushing machine which sometimes misidentifies normal people as orphans and throws them onto the conveyor belt. Sure, that's an issue, but let's focus on this orphan crushing machine first.
Hupf@feddit.org · 3 pts · 44d
Police state.
merc@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 43d
That's not what that phrase means.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 45d
and then bragged 'you're lucky we didn't come out with guns drawn'
fucking yokel shitbags
spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works · 21 pts · 44d
It is not uncommon for cops to obtain warrants for the wrong house and tear that place apart looking for drugs or someone who was never there. The departments have no financial responsibility for the damage and personal injuries they cause. Why would they bother reading the plate?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
We've hired so many cops and they've all got nothing (practical) to do. So it's not unusual to see cops piling up around any kind of dispatch.
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 2 pts · 45d
I suppose boxing in a car requires a car each in front and behind?
crunchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 32 pts · 45d
For comparison, if you were hosting some kind of platform or service that only has a 99% uptime, you'd have to pay people to use it.
Zarobi@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 45d
Yep, even 0.01% error rate looks great, until you run the numbers and it's 100 fuck ups per day… percentages stop being intuitive at mass scale like this
EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 45d
Same for Google search and their AI scanning every file that gets uploaded. Their AI, even with a 1% error rate means like millions of incorrect query responses daily or probably less than daily. Same goes for false positives from scanning people family photos or data. Hundreds or thousands of false positives each week in that case. I don’t quite get why people still use Google services, but that’s another topic. I dislike Google as much as Flock or any corporate run tech that spies on citizens for government agencies. It should be that they are hesitant to turn over information rather than proactively turning over information. Break up Google and shutter Flock.
Archangel1313@lemmy.ca · 32 pts · 45d
Well, at least we know this can only happen 98 times, by mistake.
TheFermentalist@reddthat.com · 26 pts · 45d
Lucky he’s white.
Th4tGuyII@fedia.io · 22 pts · 45d
Of course. Flock always works correctly, even when it causes innocent people to get harmed.
Its a spying tool first and foremost, the crime solving part is just a half-arsed afterthought justification.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 44d
It makes me wonder if politicians, celebrities, etc. have their plate numbers already entered into Flock as a whitelist of people not to pull over.
The story makes it pretty clear that the cops are, as usual, not doing any independent thinking. The system says to pull that car over, so they do what the system wants. They don't double-check to see if what the system is telling them to do is reasonable. If someone fat-fingers some data entry and the plate for the governor of California gets added to the system, the cops might charge up and box him in and jump out with their guns drawn. That might result in someone with actual power getting mad about Flock. So, maybe they prevent that by pre-loading the system with a whitelist of plates that are assumed to be in the clear.
DanceMomsSavedMe@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 45d
That's around 2/3rds of the entire US population
snooggums@piefed.world · 8 pts · 45d
In a month each person who drives regularly will be read hundreds of times in cities. Rural areas will be fewer times, but it is likely that on average a car is read at least a dozen or more times in a month across the US and wherever else they might be.
trainsrkool@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 45d
fuck flock!
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 45d
I like license plates as I think some degree of accountability is important when you are controlling a highly deadly machine. If you make moves that endanger people they should have a way to identify you. I've always felt those tinted plate covers were the sign of being a real asshole driver. Now I think if there is anyway to block your plate from flock cameras you should try to do it. Has any coating been effective for this?
TwitchingCheese@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 45d
Doesn't matter, they don't rely on just the plates. They match on make/model, color, condition (specific dents, scratches, damage, repairs, etc), bumper stickers, face matching on the driver and/or passengers, sound, bluetooth and/or radio IDs, and more.
You can make things that fool it, Benn Jordan demonstrates doing this with something that is hard to even notice as a human. But all that's going to do is draw extra attention to you. In a surveillance state anyone trying to maintain privacy is clearly guilty after all.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 44d
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 7 pts · 45d
I wonder how many people that are "gangstalked" are really being gangstalked.
I don't understand why people put so much faith in their government.
Ordinary_Person@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 45d
Who? At this point, aside from Wacko fanatics who suck orange cock, who has so much faith in their government?
Sims@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 45d
Police always love their oligarch masters..
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · -19 pts · 45d
People who wear masks over beards and go for their fourth booster?
WingsofLove03@retrolemmy.com · 5 pts · 45d
Oh I live in MN too very close to Plymouth this stinks. MN cops can be so mean
87Six@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 45d
When the wrong is not defined...yea I guess everything is right...
Trev625@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 43d
What the actual fuck is that license plate though??? Like why does it have two big numbers then two small numbers and then three letters???
itsgroundhogdayagain@lemmy.ml · -20 pts · 45d
It's hard to be on your side when the first fact mentioned is the price of the vehicle.
phailhaus@piefed.social · 18 pts · 45d
They are a car reviewer. It's relevant to the audience.
Scirocco@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 45d
He is emphasizing the fact that the cops care about a $155k 'stolen' vehicle, and they they are here to protect the wealthy
The guy himself is a journalist who was doing his job, part of which is an extended test-drive of a vehicle, provided by the manufacturer.
ZeroCool@piefed.ca · 1 pts · 45d
Ordinary_Person@lemmy.ca · -4 pts · 45d
People gotta use their humble-brags any way they can.
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 45d
What? It's not even his car, it was a review vehicle provided to him as a car reviewer (his job).
timewarp@lemmy.world · -31 pts · 45d
I know people here want to talk about flock, but does no one find it questionable a journalist got loaned a $150k vehicle to review? And then another alleged journalist according to the story got pulled over in a $105k Land Rover they were loaned to review? As a journalist, do they also receive homes and women to review? Sounds like some serious corruption right there.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 45d
How did you think product reviews happened?
timewarp@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 45d
By companies that buy reviews. Not journalism.
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 45d
You think a free to read website is going out and buying $200,000 (and up) cars every day for a 2 week review?
Even at the height of automotive print journalism there wasn’t budget for that.
Ferrari is famous for cutting access to critical journalists. Most companies expect a blend of positive and negative reviews and lend cars to any credible outlet. American automotive media has typically been pretty bad about the PR regurgitation, but that’s a choice they’re making - hiring people to read the PR, not to write their own.
SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 45d
That definitely happens some of the time, in some places. Journalism still exists, however.
Product reviews require more than a 'test drive'.
CaptPretentious@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
Oh bless your heart.
Sims@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 45d
Ah yes, we all thought 'Journalism' was a real thing, but alas, Capitalism/corruption has taken over all mainstream 'journalism', and 'truth' is who pays the most.. ..pretty sad..
TheKracken@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 45d
If they are automotive journalists, which in this case they are, then yes this is completely normal. People get review copies of games / books / movies / phones. So why wouldn't they loan out cars?
timewarp@lemmy.world · -14 pts · 45d
That isn't journalism. That is corporate PR and marketing.
SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 45d
Read more product reviews from more varied publications. You will see that there is a range of accountability in the sourcing of the product. Not all of it is direct marketing.
However, you can expect all of it to be ideologically consumerist.
TheFermentalist@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 45d
25 years ago I was a motoring journalist. I have had loaned to me: a Ferrari for two weeks, a Rolls Royce for three days, an Aston Martin for a month, and a Mercedes G series (not a G63) for three months. All of this and a whole bunch of other cars and motorcycles. I would be horrified if companies stopped lending out vehicles