OP didn't say that memes can't be textual in nature, OP complains about snappy Twitter, 4Chan, Reddit (idk about this one? Reddit does have memes in some subs) or similarly sourced screenshots of texts.
Such posts, while possibly humorous, and occasionally a bit funny, are not spread rapidly by Internet users, and rarely posted with any variation.
"By many different people" isnt part of either of the above definitions. Also, whats "many?" Whats "different" mean in this context? What is the threshold for a meme to meme? 10 people? 100? 1000?
Richard dawkins coined the term in 1976 and defined it as such:
A meme “conveys the idea of a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation”
Seems like a screenshot of text seen by hundred/thousands/millions fits that defention to me.
"Many" may be me editorializing, but "internet people" implies that it's not just one person posting the same thing in many places around the web and people liking it.
If you go any deeper than the surface-level Google definition (that you are pedantically picking apart), then you will find literally any idea or unit of culture is a meme.
Read the last chapter of Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. Actually please read the whole book, it's a masterpiece of science popularization. Or read Susan Blackmore's The Meme Machine, it explains the concept of memes and how they evolve in further detail.
When everything is a meme, nothing is. That is why often there is a distinction made between the Richarf Dawkins type of meme and the modern internet meme.
Everything is a meme, and they behave exactly like genes. They replicate themselves, perfectly or imperfectly, and are then subject to competition for users’ attention which will affect their future replication.
Another meme is attempting to outcompete the screenshot genus of memes, by using you as a propagation tool: the “screenshots of text are not memes” meme.
Edit: downvote me if you want but you can’t deny the facts. The idea I expressed in this comment was also a meme whose chances of propagation were diminished from your downvote.
This is just a silly over-intellectualization of a weird word you want to mean "thing, but fancier". I agree with the person you're replying to. If everything is a meme then the term is meaningless.
By the most useless definition of the word I guess, but I don't see how it is supposed to be meaningful to anyone but a linguist with that specific opinion.
Care to summarize what those books say that the surface-level Google definition provided to me by Antagonistic doesn't?
I'm not going to read entire books just to defend my meme against another meme which defends a class of alleged memes.
Well the definition is correct, it is Antagonistic's narrow interpretation of that definition that is incorrect.
The key is evolution. For something to evolve, it must have the ability to be transferred, to be changed/mutated, and to be stored. Both genes and memes have these properties.
Literally any idea is a meme. If you can think it, it's a meme.
If you break a gene in two, the result is two genes. If you break a meme in two, the result is two memes.
The name "Antagonistic" is a meme.
The letter 'A' is a meme.
The sound you make when you say 'A' is a meme.
The idea of air vibrating to make sound is a meme.
That would mean that everything was a meme. And a definition that encompasses everything is worthless, arguably not even a definition (because nothing is defined).
If any idea is a meme, is any meme an idea, and is there a direct causal relationship or is it a coincidence (or, can there be an idea that is not a meme)?
If so, and if the former, then the definition of "meme" is a synonym of "idea" and that would be that, but I don't think most people use that definition.
Note that I'm somewhat biased, loosely speaking I don't consider raw microblog quips to fit a community / subreddit / virtual space called "memes".
I never said I don't like the screenshot I referenced, I just looked up for "twitter screenshot" on DDG and took a representative link. I find the content of the screenshot mildly amusing.
However, many people (including me) do not consider those to be memes;
if the most widely recognized definition of the word includes them, then I question its usefulness beyond a synonim for "funny quote".
But you are completely right about what I complain about. A meme often contains text, and sometimes even is purely text (for example a popcultural reference in a text-only medium can be considered a meme), but a single (maybe even witty) tweet or a forum discussion without any further context is maybe funny, but not a meme.
Lol, I always love it when people have to split hairs so finely on definitions that they risk fission.
I made this joke elsewhere, but this is basically the No True Memesmen fallacy. The definition of meme includes these pictures, and trying to narrow the definition to exclude them is laughable.
When everything is a meme, nothing is. Ther is no adaptation, no cultural twist, no recontextualisation or any other relevant criteria in a screenshot of text and nothing else.
Ok, so just make up your own word that has the definition you want, or deal with your definition not being the same as others'. Because the definition of meme isn't as specific as you want it to be.
I see this as no different than the people who argued that image macros aren't memes.
The Oxford Dictionary's definition of a meme you meant to say.
For example, Jana Zündel (german article), a german meme researcher, stated that a meme always includes a recontextualisation. The Wiki page lists key characteristics such as intertextuality and cultural evolution.
There is a screenshot from reddit posted here earlier today, do you think that's a meme? Can you take it, put it in a new context and have it keep its original context as a reference so that the new post would create a new idea building on the context?
Or is it just a random story, maybe funny to some?
I'm gonna say posting screenshots is kind of parallel to the purpose of this place. Lemmy is an aggregator, a platform where content from other sites is linked/reposted.
Original content is still important, as without them, the website would die in a few weeks. But we should not ignore the value "crossposted" stuff adds to this place. I read a lot of great, original stories under the thread shown in your screenshot.
!science_memes@mander.xyz is a perfect example of this. It is filled with unoriginal content and screenshots but I genuinely learned more stuff in the comment section of that community compared to "serious" science communities in other platforms. That also has something to do with the quality of fediverse users of course, but my point stands
A meme is an idea, behavior, or style that spreads by means of imitation from person to person within a culture and often carries symbolic meaning representing a particular phenomenon or theme.
-Wikipedia
You can argue that many of the text posts do not meet the criteria, but just as many of the shitty image macros posted don't either.
I was the whole thing. That extra context still doesn't require image macros or exclude purely textual memes. Also good job continuing to break accessibility with laziness.
a meme was originally used to describe repeated patterns in genetics, and is fundamentally another way to say "mimic," so we could build an argument for a totally different way to moderate content here.
but the spirit of the community is to showcase the modern internet meme, so I think taking the narrow definition of "new jokes over repeated images" is more appropriate than a literal definition of the word itself.
I see a bit of both sides being argued in the comments here. We don't have a clear rule about this atm, so removals have been inconsistent and case-by-case, often based on reports.
Maybe I'll start and pin a discussion thread about this during the week (when we'll get the most eyes on it) and see what the wider community wants, and if desired, maybe we can come up with a rule wording that isn't too restrictive, but removes stuff that genuinely feels "off topic" for a memes page.
I also choose this guys wife is a meme. You done goofed is a meme. Memes aren't image macros. Any image macro or screenshot from X The EveryThing APP isn't a meme without some sort of community traction. Funny jpeg aren't memes and its a vulguar bastardisation to belive them as such.
I am going by the original definition of meme, in which jokes and comments (if shared) are a meme, language is a meme too. otherwise you are just talking about captioning images, which are a type of meme, but saying only those are memes is jut dumb.
the real question is what goes on a salad, I there is no rule that no fruiting bodies are allowed in a salad. yet we also add cheese bacon, chicken and mushrooms to salads. what is your point?
Nah, OP is just straight denying that screenshots of text are memes. Claiming some bullshit like having to make some change to it for it to qualify as a meme. Just ignoring reposts of green texts, copypasta, reddit stories (poop knife, cylinder, cbat guy, etc etc etc etc), people getting ratioed on twitter, tumblr chains.
Like, wtf kinda change does OP want me to make if I wanna revive some old classic greentext. Draw a big red circle on it? Slap a wojak right in the middle?
Screenshots are lazy, sure, but they are definitely still memes. Whether an exact replica or not.
See, that’s the thing. They are still memes. Bits of information that are transmitted with or without modification.
If a copypasta isn’t iconic, that doesn’t mean it’s not a meme. It’s just a less successful meme than the navyseals meme. Same thing with greentexts, images, comics, reddit posts.
Tumblr is just the same as it always was. Which in the current blogging ecosystem, means it's better than nearly every other website. Standards have really plummeted.
Oh in case people here don't know, current Tumblr ownership is made up of insane transphobes. They're kinda in an enteral standoff with... most of their dedicated user-base about it.
Also, back in the first Trump administration, a whole lot of black users got permabanned for spreading "Russian disinformation". In reality, they were talking about their experiences being black in the US. But pointing out the flaws in the place you live is actually helping The Other! So very scary.
the word meme gained a second definition on the internet, which is similar to the first but focused on specifically things intended to be funny. because context is a part of language whether you like it or not, that meaning is the one that is being used any time you see the word on the internet unless otherwise specified or unless the context in which you're seeing it is one where the other is more appropriate (like a discussion about linguistics or the spread of ideas).
I would argue that memes aren't necessarily meant to be funny. I think the most important component of a meme is its composition, which is usually a square image with optional text. But yeah, I completely agree with your broader points.
there are also memes (meaning the kind intended to be funny on the internet in this case) which dont use images at all but are just a recurring reference or something like that. it is largely the same idea as the original meaning of the term but on the internet it generally refers to things that are intended to be funny (in recent years, usually through self-reference as a result of algorithm-based social media).
Thats an image macro which is a specific type of Internet meme. Although I’ve never heard of someone suggesting they must be square; that seems very odd. Are the meme police checking height:width ratios now?
i said intended to be funny. for example, the 67 meme is not funny. it is intended to be funny though, and like most new memes recently is intended to be funny mainly by referencing how it otherwise isn't funny. theres a guy on yt shorts (I think the channel is etymologynerd or smth similar) who explains it a lot better.
because context is a part of language whether you like it or not
The irony of this reasoning is that the things spread as memes you do not think should be called memes because they are not "intended to be funny" are called memes by a vast majority of people on the internet. Making them memes, whether you like it or not.
if you actually read the comment, I didnt say that anything was not a meme. what I said was that the person I was replying to was ignoring the other meaning of the word which, because of context, is clearly the relevant meaning in this case.
People holding onto the idea that memes should be defined by their original context are using the same rhetoric as those who insist it's okay to call cigarettes "fags"
I mean, it is though. A meme is an idea that has been spread, and even if that wasn't the literal definition of it, people have modified the idea of what a meme was into what it is now. You are simply outnumbered and clinging to an outdated definition.
I think it's fair to be frustrated when language is forcibly changed by lazy misuse. We are losing words due to declining literacy and trying to push back on that shouldn't be seen as a worthless effort.
Obviously at some point numbers win over and then we have folks like you who have gotten comfortable using terms incorrectly and arguing that the definition has changed. And it has. But that doesn't make it a good thing.
That "lazy misuse" is how you got your idea of what the word means in the first place. That's how language evolves, and why we say "goodbye" instead of "God be with you"
No one is saying to stop posting. There are dozens of communities that get little to no content because people dump all this crap here. All of these posts have at least one other community where they actually fit. Don't twist words.
i hate that microblogmemes allows people to just post anything from any microblog platform. they always justify it with "well a meme is actually just a self-replicating idea" which is technically true, but it ignores the meaning the term 'meme' has on the internet, which is basically just an image based joke that plays off of internet culture in general, typically including previous memes. in the context of a scientific field like linguistics or phycology, the first definition makes more sense. in the context of an internet group with no scientific interest, the second is obviously correct. also they always use that excuse when they are posting US politics instead of memes, which is bullshit because there are communities for politics and political memes. dont make off-topic posts, go post it in a community where it is relevant.
Well, where would such content go? I agree these things don’t fit the definition of a meme. But they aren’t jokes either. And there’s no c/randomFunnyStuff.
If you removed everything that isn’t a perfectly pure meme, this community would be very empty.
That's like having c/sayings and people just write shit in it: "well how can it become a saying if we don't treat it like one!" That makes no sense. It's not for making sayings, it's for things that ARE sayings.
There are things in the category already and the community, based on the name, should be for that.
I would recommend c/memematerial to be born to fill the niche you're discussing.
Edit: lol downvote if youre 12 and you have some pictures of text we just have to see.
Well, where would such content go? I agree these things don’t fit the definition of a meme. But they aren’t jokes either. And there’s no c/randomFunnyStuff.
If you removed everything that isn’t a perfectly pure meme, this community would be very empty.
I mean, is demanding some effort and quality really asking too much? If this community was empty withouth non-meme posts, does it deserve to be a meme community?
People are lazy and meme communities are bigger so obviously they are going to post whatever content to the larger community for engagement. It's not any more complicated than that. As long as meme communities are bigger and accept non-memes they will continue to be posted to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Man, !microblogmemes@lemmy.world makes me so angry about this. I try to have this account be my funny account and my other lemmy account be the more serious, news-orientated/political account, but microblogmemes allows so much of this "screenshot of a literal fact" posts that it pollutes both accounts' feeds.
::: spoiler This almost made a good point until it broke accessibility.
Images of text break much that text alternatives do not.
Losses due to image of text lacking alternative:
usability
we can't quote the text without pointless bullshit like retyping it or OCR
Oh, I get it. You are not trying to argue the topic but another topic. Sorry, but you should make a seperate post for that, because, you know, seperate topic, seperate discussion.
189 Comments
Antagnostic@lemmy.world · 152 pts · 235d
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 74 pts · 235d
Antagnostic@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 235d
I didn't make this meme.
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 29 pts · 235d
Then let me put it this way:
OP didn't say that memes can't be textual in nature, OP complains about snappy Twitter, 4Chan, Reddit (idk about this one? Reddit does have memes in some subs) or similarly sourced screenshots of texts.
Such posts, while possibly humorous, and occasionally a bit funny, are not spread rapidly by Internet users, and rarely posted with any variation.
Example 1 - this is a meme:
"Nanomachines, son!"
Example 2 - this is not a meme:
stephen01king@piefed.zip · 36 pts · 235d
I mean, if the screenshot has been shared widely enough, it should be considered a meme by definition.
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 235d
If the screenshot has been shared widely enough by many different people, yes, it should be considered a meme by definition.
rainwall@piefed.social · 18 pts · 235d
"By many different people" isnt part of either of the above definitions. Also, whats "many?" Whats "different" mean in this context? What is the threshold for a meme to meme? 10 people? 100? 1000?
Richard dawkins coined the term in 1976 and defined it as such:
Seems like a screenshot of text seen by hundred/thousands/millions fits that defention to me.
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -2 pts · 235d
"Many" may be me editorializing, but "internet people" implies that it's not just one person posting the same thing in many places around the web and people liking it.
Krono@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 235d
Example 2 is a meme, no doubt about it.
If you go any deeper than the surface-level Google definition (that you are pedantically picking apart), then you will find literally any idea or unit of culture is a meme.
Read the last chapter of Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. Actually please read the whole book, it's a masterpiece of science popularization. Or read Susan Blackmore's The Meme Machine, it explains the concept of memes and how they evolve in further detail.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 235d
When everything is a meme, nothing is. That is why often there is a distinction made between the Richarf Dawkins type of meme and the modern internet meme.
smoker@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 234d
“When everything is made of genes, nothing is”
This is just an assertion, and a false one too.
Everything is a meme, and they behave exactly like genes. They replicate themselves, perfectly or imperfectly, and are then subject to competition for users’ attention which will affect their future replication.
Another meme is attempting to outcompete the screenshot genus of memes, by using you as a propagation tool: the “screenshots of text are not memes” meme.
Edit: downvote me if you want but you can’t deny the facts. The idea I expressed in this comment was also a meme whose chances of propagation were diminished from your downvote.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 233d
This is just a silly over-intellectualization of a weird word you want to mean "thing, but fancier". I agree with the person you're replying to. If everything is a meme then the term is meaningless.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 234d
Wrong
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 235d
By your thinking, the letter A on a transparent background is a "meme"
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 235d
To be fair,
marcos@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 234d
If people post it around, it is.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 234d
Yeah
Hawke@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 233d
… it is.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 233d
By the most useless definition of the word I guess, but I don't see how it is supposed to be meaningful to anyone but a linguist with that specific opinion.
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -2 pts · 235d
Care to summarize what those books say that the surface-level Google definition provided to me by Antagonistic doesn't?
I'm not going to read entire books just to defend my meme against another meme which defends a class of alleged memes.
Krono@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 235d
Well the definition is correct, it is Antagonistic's narrow interpretation of that definition that is incorrect.
The key is evolution. For something to evolve, it must have the ability to be transferred, to be changed/mutated, and to be stored. Both genes and memes have these properties.
Literally any idea is a meme. If you can think it, it's a meme.
If you break a gene in two, the result is two genes. If you break a meme in two, the result is two memes.
The name "Antagonistic" is a meme. The letter 'A' is a meme. The sound you make when you say 'A' is a meme. The idea of air vibrating to make sound is a meme.
Antagnostic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 235d
I didn't interpret anything. I posted a meme. Also, you misspelled my name if were meaning to mention me.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 235d
That would mean that everything was a meme. And a definition that encompasses everything is worthless, arguably not even a definition (because nothing is defined).
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 235d
If any idea is a meme, is any meme an idea, and is there a direct causal relationship or is it a coincidence (or, can there be an idea that is not a meme)?
If so, and if the former, then the definition of "meme" is a synonym of "idea" and that would be that, but I don't think most people use that definition.
Note that I'm somewhat biased, loosely speaking I don't consider raw microblog quips to fit a community / subreddit / virtual space called "memes".
Agrivar@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 235d
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 235d
Hahaha, looks like we're back to arguing about the old No True Memesmen falacy....
Screenshots of text that you don't like aren't memes because of reasons
Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 235d
I never said I don't like the screenshot I referenced, I just looked up for "twitter screenshot" on DDG and took a representative link. I find the content of the screenshot mildly amusing.
However, many people (including me) do not consider those to be memes;
if the most widely recognized definition of the word includes them, then I question its usefulness beyond a synonim for "funny quote".
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 234d
Many people including you are dead wrong
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 235d
like definition. words mean things? what nonsense.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 6 pts · 235d
Most of the shit on here hasn't been shared widely or rapidly. They're at best aspiring memes.
The community should be renamed non-memes. If not, then that community should be created & every non-meme here cross-posted there.
TehBamski@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 235d
Haters gonna hate, but you deserve this. ::: spoiler spoiler
:::
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 235d
Just a recent reference
But you are completely right about what I complain about. A meme often contains text, and sometimes even is purely text (for example a popcultural reference in a text-only medium can be considered a meme), but a single (maybe even witty) tweet or a forum discussion without any further context is maybe funny, but not a meme.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 234d
The hidden parts don't matter, the part you can see is the part that says OP is wrong and nothing anywhere in the rest of the definition changes that
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · -10 pts · 235d
Is that an AI-answer?
smoker@lemmy.zip · 22 pts · 235d
It’s the dictionary definition
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 235d
But then you are missing or leaving something out:
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 235d
Lol, I always love it when people have to split hairs so finely on definitions that they risk fission.
I made this joke elsewhere, but this is basically the No True Memesmen fallacy. The definition of meme includes these pictures, and trying to narrow the definition to exclude them is laughable.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · -9 pts · 235d
When everything is a meme, nothing is. Ther is no adaptation, no cultural twist, no recontextualisation or any other relevant criteria in a screenshot of text and nothing else.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 235d
Ok, so just make up your own word that has the definition you want, or deal with your definition not being the same as others'. Because the definition of meme isn't as specific as you want it to be.
I see this as no different than the people who argued that image macros aren't memes.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 235d
The Oxford Dictionary's definition of a meme you meant to say.
For example, Jana Zündel (german article), a german meme researcher, stated that a meme always includes a recontextualisation. The Wiki page lists key characteristics such as intertextuality and cultural evolution.
There is a screenshot from reddit posted here earlier today, do you think that's a meme? Can you take it, put it in a new context and have it keep its original context as a reference so that the new post would create a new idea building on the context? Or is it just a random story, maybe funny to some?
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 235d
https://c.tenor.com/8sERkslHbYcAAAAC/tenor.gif
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 234d
You keep saying that, it's not getting any less wrong though
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 235d
You can parody a piece of text. They literally just did it by overlaying wojack on top of the dictionary description.
GrammarPolice@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 234d
Most posts here aren't parodies. They're just blanket text
waz@feddit.uk · 60 pts · 235d
Ahahaha.
GrammarPolice@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 234d
I was just about to comment this lmaoo
yogurtwrong@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 233d
I'm gonna say posting screenshots is kind of parallel to the purpose of this place. Lemmy is an aggregator, a platform where content from other sites is linked/reposted.
Original content is still important, as without them, the website would die in a few weeks. But we should not ignore the value "crossposted" stuff adds to this place. I read a lot of great, original stories under the thread shown in your screenshot.
!science_memes@mander.xyz is a perfect example of this. It is filled with unoriginal content and screenshots but I genuinely learned more stuff in the comment section of that community compared to "serious" science communities in other platforms. That also has something to do with the quality of fediverse users of course, but my point stands
gnomesaiyan@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 235d
I like to throw this one around on occasion.
Edit: I'm looking through the community now in the past few hours...
milomx@lemmy.zip · 30 pts · 234d
I'm here for snappy Xitter, 4Chan, reddit or similarly sourced screenshots of texts, cuz i won't open none of those sites.
JoYo@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 234d
there’s a reason you wont open those sites. lean into that and rid yourself of their taint.
A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl · 1 pts · 233d
Oppinion disregarded.
TehBamski@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 235d
I've been wondering for sometime as to why those kinds of posts weren't be removed and guided to another community. Like !microblogmemes@lemmy.world or !humor@lemmy.world
dragnucs@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 235d
Maybe the rules re too lax, or the mods got used to let this go so the community gains traction.
Klear@quokk.au · 9 pts · 235d
Or people forget they're supposed to report that crap.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 233d
sometimes the screenshot of a post from other social media is taken out of contex too.
bleistift2@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 235d
!microblogmemes has a very narrow scope and !humor only wants “lighthearted” content. So these are only a partial replacement.
TheTetrapod@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 235d
Most of the "real" memes that get posted are terrible, so I can't say I mind too much.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 18 pts · 235d
Feel free to make your own quality memes.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 235d
I came here to say this to you. Be the change! Flood the zone with what you want to see. We'd all appreciate it.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 235d
Why fo you feel the need to tell me what I am already doing though?
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d
Because you aren't anymore. Where is today's? I would like several please.
GrammarPolice@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 234d
That's literally what they did...
A7thStone@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 235d
A meme is an idea, behavior, or style that spreads by means of imitation from person to person within a culture and often carries symbolic meaning representing a particular phenomenon or theme.
-Wikipedia
You can argue that many of the text posts do not meet the criteria, but just as many of the shitty image macros posted don't either.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 235d
You stopped reading too early.
A7thStone@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 235d
I was the whole thing. That extra context still doesn't require image macros or exclude purely textual memes. Also good job continuing to break accessibility with laziness.
marcos@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 235d
Nah, on the GP's case, breaking accessibility requires a lot more effort than preserving it.
kreekybonez@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 234d
a meme was originally used to describe repeated patterns in genetics, and is fundamentally another way to say "mimic," so we could build an argument for a totally different way to moderate content here.
but the spirit of the community is to showcase the modern internet meme, so I think taking the narrow definition of "new jokes over repeated images" is more appropriate than a literal definition of the word itself.
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 21 pts · 235d
I don’t mind those posts.
mika_mika@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 234d
Okay go don't mind them in another community that isn't called memes.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 234d
Those posts are also still memes whether you like them or not
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 235d
Me: (come here to laugh.)
OP: (taking it real personal and arguing with everyone in the comments)
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 235d
I see a bit of both sides being argued in the comments here. We don't have a clear rule about this atm, so removals have been inconsistent and case-by-case, often based on reports.
Maybe I'll start and pin a discussion thread about this during the week (when we'll get the most eyes on it) and see what the wider community wants, and if desired, maybe we can come up with a rule wording that isn't too restrictive, but removes stuff that genuinely feels "off topic" for a memes page.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 233d
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 235d
A meme is a meme, regardless if it has been screenshot. it is the content not the vessel
kreekybonez@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 234d
but not if it's a text-only screenshot, like a twitter/tumblr post. the point of the modern "meme" is to be variations on a visual-based theme.
otherwise, it's just a joke or a comment
Iceman@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 234d
I also choose this guys wife is a meme. You done goofed is a meme. Memes aren't image macros. Any image macro or screenshot from X The EveryThing APP isn't a meme without some sort of community traction. Funny jpeg aren't memes and its a vulguar bastardisation to belive them as such.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d
I am going by the original definition of meme, in which jokes and comments (if shared) are a meme, language is a meme too. otherwise you are just talking about captioning images, which are a type of meme, but saying only those are memes is jut dumb.
kreekybonez@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 234d
a tomato is a fruit, but does it belong in a fruit salad?
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d
the real question is what goes on a salad, I there is no rule that no fruiting bodies are allowed in a salad. yet we also add cheese bacon, chicken and mushrooms to salads. what is your point?
smoker@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 234d
OP: 👏 TOMATO 👏 IS 👏 NOT 👏 A 👏 FRUIT 👏
Everyone: tomatoes are botanically considered a fruit
OP: ackshually I don’t like it in my fruit salad, therefore it is not a fruit
Wren@lemmy.today · 19 pts · 234d
Zozano@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 234d
Let me fix this.
OP: 👏 TOMATO 👏 IS 👏 NOT 👏 A 👏 FRUIT 👏
Everyone: technically, a tomato is a fruit
OP: OK sure, but I don't want it in my fruit salad
Everyone: fair enough, that makes sense.
smoker@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 234d
Nah, OP is just straight denying that screenshots of text are memes. Claiming some bullshit like having to make some change to it for it to qualify as a meme. Just ignoring reposts of green texts, copypasta, reddit stories (poop knife, cylinder, cbat guy, etc etc etc etc), people getting ratioed on twitter, tumblr chains.
Like, wtf kinda change does OP want me to make if I wanna revive some old classic greentext. Draw a big red circle on it? Slap a wojak right in the middle?
Screenshots are lazy, sure, but they are definitely still memes. Whether an exact replica or not.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 234d
I mean, /greentexts exists
I wouldn't say they're memes inherently, though they can be if they're the navyseals meme or something if it becomes iconic.
smoker@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 234d
See, that’s the thing. They are still memes. Bits of information that are transmitted with or without modification.
If a copypasta isn’t iconic, that doesn’t mean it’s not a meme. It’s just a less successful meme than the navyseals meme. Same thing with greentexts, images, comics, reddit posts.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 233d
adds bacon to fruit salad
AcidiclyBasicGlitch@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 234d
The meme police
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 233d
memestasi if you will
Sabata11792@ani.social · 15 pts · 234d
Brave souls risk their lives and sanity digging those screenshots out of the cesspits for your viewing pleasure.
AppleTea@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 233d
Tumblr is just the same as it always was. Which in the current blogging ecosystem, means it's better than nearly every other website. Standards have really plummeted.
AppleTea@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 233d
Oh in case people here don't know, current Tumblr ownership is made up of insane transphobes. They're kinda in an enteral standoff with... most of their dedicated user-base about it.
AppleTea@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 233d
Also, back in the first Trump administration, a whole lot of black users got permabanned for spreading "Russian disinformation". In reality, they were talking about their experiences being black in the US. But pointing out the flaws in the place you live is actually helping The Other! So very scary.
sexy_peach@feddit.org · 14 pts · 235d
wrong
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 13 pts · 234d
Anything humans spread around and share other than our DNA is a meme. The definition of a meme is "non-genetic information shared by any means."
Zozano@aussie.zone · 10 pts · 234d
Behold, a meme:
anaVal@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 233d
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 233d
Haaveilija@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 233d
Zozano@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 234d
And a tomato is a fruit. It would be stupid to pretend it should be utilised by its definition.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · -2 pts · 234d
A tomato is a fruit. And all fruit are vegetables, but not all vegetables are fruit.
Sounds like you should crack open a dictionary.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 234d
Yeah, I know. I said that.
Never said it wasn't.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 1 pts · 234d
So you weren't being sarcastic?
Zozano@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 234d
No? Have you never heard the analogy: "intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" ?
Wren@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 234d
Experience tells me cherry tomatoes are great in a fruit salad.
unknown1234_5@kbin.earth · 2 pts · 234d
the word meme gained a second definition on the internet, which is similar to the first but focused on specifically things intended to be funny. because context is a part of language whether you like it or not, that meaning is the one that is being used any time you see the word on the internet unless otherwise specified or unless the context in which you're seeing it is one where the other is more appropriate (like a discussion about linguistics or the spread of ideas).
CompassRed@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 234d
I would argue that memes aren't necessarily meant to be funny. I think the most important component of a meme is its composition, which is usually a square image with optional text. But yeah, I completely agree with your broader points.
unknown1234_5@kbin.earth · 1 pts · 231d
there are also memes (meaning the kind intended to be funny on the internet in this case) which dont use images at all but are just a recurring reference or something like that. it is largely the same idea as the original meaning of the term but on the internet it generally refers to things that are intended to be funny (in recent years, usually through self-reference as a result of algorithm-based social media).
CompassRed@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 231d
That's fair, but I was thinking in the context of meme communities like this one in which nearly all of the posts are images.
Hawke@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 233d
Thats an image macro which is a specific type of Internet meme. Although I’ve never heard of someone suggesting they must be square; that seems very odd. Are the meme police checking height:width ratios now?
CompassRed@discuss.tchncs.de · -1 pts · 233d
There is no meme police and nobody uses the term image macro.
Hawke@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 233d
Oh they’re real all right.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 234d
Nothing in either definition requires them to be funny
unknown1234_5@kbin.earth · 0 pts · 231d
i said intended to be funny. for example, the 67 meme is not funny. it is intended to be funny though, and like most new memes recently is intended to be funny mainly by referencing how it otherwise isn't funny. theres a guy on yt shorts (I think the channel is etymologynerd or smth similar) who explains it a lot better.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 3 pts · 234d
The irony of this reasoning is that the things spread as memes you do not think should be called memes because they are not "intended to be funny" are called memes by a vast majority of people on the internet. Making them memes, whether you like it or not.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 234d
You're presuming most people regard text on a selfie as a meme.
I'm convinced the majority of people think a meme is a recurring image format with humerous intent (more or less).
For what its worth, I'm of the opinion that words are not prescribed, words are defined by their use.
This may seem contradictory, until you realise that you can't just let every definition of a word be equal and valid.
If my definition of a meme was a blue towel, which was shared by ten other people, then asking you to fetch my meme (blue towel) is moronic.
unknown1234_5@kbin.earth · 0 pts · 231d
if you actually read the comment, I didnt say that anything was not a meme. what I said was that the person I was replying to was ignoring the other meaning of the word which, because of context, is clearly the relevant meaning in this case.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 234d
People holding onto the idea that memes should be defined by their original context are using the same rhetoric as those who insist it's okay to call cigarettes "fags"
teslasaur@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 235d
Hear, fucking hear.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 235d
Little8Lost@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 235d
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 235d
StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 234d
I mean, it is though. A meme is an idea that has been spread, and even if that wasn't the literal definition of it, people have modified the idea of what a meme was into what it is now. You are simply outnumbered and clinging to an outdated definition.
fosho@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 234d
I think it's fair to be frustrated when language is forcibly changed by lazy misuse. We are losing words due to declining literacy and trying to push back on that shouldn't be seen as a worthless effort.
Obviously at some point numbers win over and then we have folks like you who have gotten comfortable using terms incorrectly and arguing that the definition has changed. And it has. But that doesn't make it a good thing.
Wren@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 234d
I have news for you about the history of every word.
StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 234d
That "lazy misuse" is how you got your idea of what the word means in the first place. That's how language evolves, and why we say "goodbye" instead of "God be with you"
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d
But we are inventing new extremely awesome and unimaginably, um, awesome words, like 67, too!
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 234d
Nothing is being changed, the definition of the word meme always included these things
TheNamlessGuy@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 234d
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 233d
Saw this "stop posting content" rant, just below it in my feed is a "Why doesn't anyone post on the fediverse!?!?" rant
I wonder if these things are related.
Ghyste@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 233d
No one is saying to stop posting. There are dozens of communities that get little to no content because people dump all this crap here. All of these posts have at least one other community where they actually fit. Don't twist words.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 233d
So downvote them?
Delphia@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 234d
I mean I agree. But I also appreciate people finding the quality comedy on those places for me and sharing it here.
Maybe just start a "SocialMediaGems" sub or something.
unknown1234_5@kbin.earth · 3 pts · 234d
there are a couple microblogmemes communities and whitepeopletwitter (and similar) communities, but the ones on .world have terrible moderation.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 233d
unknown1234_5@kbin.earth · 5 pts · 234d
i hate that microblogmemes allows people to just post anything from any microblog platform. they always justify it with "well a meme is actually just a self-replicating idea" which is technically true, but it ignores the meaning the term 'meme' has on the internet, which is basically just an image based joke that plays off of internet culture in general, typically including previous memes. in the context of a scientific field like linguistics or phycology, the first definition makes more sense. in the context of an internet group with no scientific interest, the second is obviously correct. also they always use that excuse when they are posting US politics instead of memes, which is bullshit because there are communities for politics and political memes. dont make off-topic posts, go post it in a community where it is relevant.
Mac@mander.xyz · 5 pts · 234d
🧐
GrammarPolice@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 234d
Good catch
bleistift2@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 235d
Well, where would such content go? I agree these things don’t fit the definition of a meme. But they aren’t jokes either. And there’s no c/randomFunnyStuff.
If you removed everything that isn’t a perfectly pure meme, this community would be very empty.
slothrop@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 235d
...and, how does it become a meme without being posted as one...?
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 235d
That's like having c/sayings and people just write shit in it: "well how can it become a saying if we don't treat it like one!" That makes no sense. It's not for making sayings, it's for things that ARE sayings.
There are things in the category already and the community, based on the name, should be for that.
I would recommend c/memematerial to be born to fill the niche you're discussing.
Edit: lol downvote if youre 12 and you have some pictures of text we just have to see.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 235d
If you find the screenshot quote funny and memeable, make a meme out of it and post it here. But the screenshot itself is too little.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 235d
https://lemmy.world/comment/21240390
I mean, is demanding some effort and quality really asking too much? If this community was empty withouth non-meme posts, does it deserve to be a meme community?
mika_mika@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 234d
People are lazy and meme communities are bigger so obviously they are going to post whatever content to the larger community for engagement. It's not any more complicated than that. As long as meme communities are bigger and accept non-memes they will continue to be posted to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 235d
Wherever the picture-of-text memes go. The content is unchanged, the form should change.
davidagain@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 235d
There's a microblog memes community.
BlueKey@fedia.io · 2 pts · 235d
Maybe a Greentext-like community could be created, but for general funny or odd texts from the internet?
davidagain@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 235d
!microblogmemes@lemmy.world
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 235d
Rhoeri@piefed.world · 5 pts · 235d
100% agree.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 5 pts · 234d
You're right but i gave up on this battle years ago.
dragnucs@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 235d
Thank you!
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 233d
JoYo@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 234d
at this point i am just blocking anyone that posts this shit. just steal the meme, no one cares.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 234d
I run into this same issue with youtube meme compilations. If the entire compilation is funny home videos THOSE ARENT MEMES
Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 234d
ImMa steal this fam.
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 233d
wrong
Naho_Zako@piefed.zip · 3 pts · 234d
Man, !microblogmemes@lemmy.world makes me so angry about this. I try to have this account be my funny account and my other lemmy account be the more serious, news-orientated/political account, but microblogmemes allows so much of this "screenshot of a literal fact" posts that it pollutes both accounts' feeds.
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d
Fuck Reddit and Fuck Spez.
Ghyste@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 235d
Bravo!
W3dd1e@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 233d
What would we call those posts? Like what community would they go in?
bookmeat@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 234d
In this meme, the author doesn't understand the word meme.
fosho@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 234d
the author is recognizing that the definition has been unfortunately forced to change due to misuse.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 235d
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · -3 pts · 235d
::: spoiler This almost made a good point until it broke accessibility. Images of text break much that text alternatives do not. Losses due to image of text lacking alternative:
Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images. :::
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 235d
Well ok, neither is Lemmy.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 4 pts · 235d
lemmy has a search feature broken by inaccessible images of text
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 235d
True
GrammarPolice@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 234d
No?
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 235d
I am not sure what you are trying to argue. This isn't about whether text is a good medium, it is about screenshots of texts not being memes.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · -1 pts · 235d
no excuse for breaking accessibility by not at the very least setting alt text
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 235d
Oh, I get it. You are not trying to argue the topic but another topic. Sorry, but you should make a seperate post for that, because, you know, seperate topic, seperate discussion.