Insider trading, but make it worse

1.2k points · 128 comments · view on lemmy.world

128 Comments

Greddan@feddit.org · 183 pts · 238d
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ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip · 175 pts · 238d (7 replies)

I'm willing go bet a lot of people making weird bets like this are doing the equivalent of insider trading. The whole concept of betting on random news is ripe for the opportunity for people with insider knowledge to always win big off of the losses of gambling addicts.

plyth@feddit.org · 75 pts · 238d (4 replies)

That's the point of those platforms, to bribe the people with that knowledge to reveal it.

ronl2k@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 237d (2 replies)
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JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 236d (1 reply)

They would still make money since they take a cut off every bet. Just not as much as selling their insider data.

ronl2k@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 236d
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Artisian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 237d

Which, fwiw, night be a feature not a downside? Transparency if the fact is juicy enough.

bdonvr@thelemmy.club · 32 pts · 238d

Yeah unlike sports where at least the games are ostensibly fair, heavily scrutinized, and managed by organizations that try to stop this. Even then it still happens sometimes.

This system is just completely unenforceable insanity.

cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 237d

Of course it is and the creators know that. But it's profitable

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 100 pts · 238d (2 replies)

This is the least of it. Representatives entire families are set for life. Somehow, everybody in their family gets stinking rich after election, and their book is always a "NYTimes best seller" because they are bought by the campaign (and dumped in a landfill), insider trading is rampant, super-PACs.

I'm okay with someone in the military picking up some extra cash. Family has to eat, whether government is "shut down" or not. I hope it was some smart ass buck private.

In the USA politics is the number three easiest way to achieve "financial security", only inheritors and prosperity gospel preachers have it easier.

Serinus@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 238d (1 reply)

It's not fucking military leaking unless they came in with Drunk Pete Hegseth.

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 7 pts · 237d

*Pete Kegsbreath

huquad@lemmy.ml · 95 pts · 238d (5 replies)

400k seems relatively low for the usual scum. Could be a lower rank military personnel, or a staffer.

Transform2942@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 237d

Yeah, the bet was only 32k. Honestly surprising more people didn't have this idea

cabillaud@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 237d

Or a team of them

Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 237d (2 replies)

This is huge opsec issue from now on. Basically you can start seeing military operations before they happen.

huquad@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 236d (1 reply)

Has been for a while now. One of my buddies works in military intelligence. He combs social media for soldier whereabouts to inform military ops.

Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 236d

Social Media is its own beast, but there people can talk shit near anonymous, talk is cheap. With these betting sites, people are putting money in front, which people won't do without some inside info.

Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone · 76 pts · 238d (9 replies)

Can we all go on polymarket and start a betting pool that Peter Thiel will not be violently assassinated by the end of the year?

bunchberry@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 237d (4 replies)

Bad people don't die. The more evil you absorb the longer you live. Like Kissinger living to 100.

SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 18 pts · 237d

I suspect it's the lack of stress due to being a sociopath. Not caring about others has to make life pretty easy in some respects.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 237d

Bad people don’t die

Selection bias. Bad people die all the time, and then we forget about them (or never learn about them) because they stop being in the spotlight.

Nobody talks about the Koch Brothers or the Waltons anymore, as they've degraded to irrelevance. Nobody talks about the Carnegies or Fords or Hoovers anymore, for the same reason.

Steve Jobs was an evil fuck and he's gone now, so he's off the radar.

Meanwhile, nobody had Lucky Palmer pegged as a sociopath ten years ago and now he's doing James Bond Villain tier war crimes.

TheOakTree@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 237d

Because it has to be here.

BoycottTwitter@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 237d

There are exceptions to the rule for example Rush Limbaugh and maybe soon Scott Adams.

SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 8 pts · 237d (2 replies)

Do I vote for or against to make it more likely?

SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 237d (1 reply)

The one who bets for Thiel being dead collects the money if that happens. They would also benefit from actually carrying out the deed. These markets are essentially crowdfunding for dirty stuff.

explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 237d

Or insurance against bad things continuing to happen.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 237d

You can, but you're going to want to have him in your sights before you place the bet

Noite_Etion@lemmy.world · 61 pts · 238d

When there is no punishment, the system must be working perfectly.

randoot@lemmy.world · 59 pts · 237d (9 replies)

You have to be an idiot to gamble at these sites. I already feel like an idiot for having money in the stock market with all the insider trading, but thanks to inflation you're fucked if you do and fucked if you don't.

Teppichbrand@feddit.org · 31 pts · 237d (3 replies)

The stock market is a global suicide machine, change my mind

nandeEbisu@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 237d (1 reply)

It's a ponzi scheme supporting millions of people's retirements, myself included.

Ideally we have social security, which is a much more regulated and carefully managed ponzi scheme but the people in power use it like a piggy bank because it's not like they're going to be around when it runs dry.

Ronno@feddit.nl · 5 pts · 237d

I live in a country with a quite strong social security scheme, but the money in our social security funds, like pensions, is mostly invested in the stock market anyways.

Transform2942@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 237d

Good Take

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 237d

Gambling is for idiots, so it works out.

TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 237d (1 reply)

Unless you had an active decision in oar were privy to the making of the attack happen.

Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 236d

The fact that you end up potentially gambling against insiders like this is one thing that makes these bet on anything sites so dumb to interact with in the first place. Which also makes me not really care about this particular grift.

explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 237d

IMHO there ought to be a peer-to-peer version so we can buy Trump Insurance without getting fucked from above.

NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 237d

Gambling on something like this is definitely risky, but it's not as risky if you're using it to bet on something more defined like sports or who will win the next presidential election.

If someone is going to rig the sports game, then it's now rigged for all people betting on that game at all locations, not just here.

And at a decentralized platform like this, that should ultimately be safer than the alternatives.

RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 56 pts · 238d (21 replies)

TIL there’s a website where anyone can bet on anything.

CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 41 pts · 238d (7 replies)

What?! What are the odds?!

KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 16 pts · 238d (6 replies)

Put me down for a tenner

Trex202@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 238d (5 replies)

You lost

KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 13 pts · 237d (4 replies)

Fuck

fartographer@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 237d (3 replies)

Hey, gimme another ten bucks. Your luck can only get better, right???

KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 237d (2 replies)

I'll bet you 10 bucks that I'll lose this 10 bucks I'm betting you.

fartographer@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 237d

Fuck! I owe you $10, but I've only got this $20. Hey, give me two tens for a $20.

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@piefed.world · 2 pts · 237d
atropa@piefed.social · 9 pts · 238d (11 replies)
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RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 238d (10 replies)

Ooh, without even looking I suspect it’s close to even?

Edit: just looked and couldn’t find it? I tried searching “Trump (dies, dead, death, deceased)” and it didn’t come up.

Saapas@piefed.zip · 17 pts · 238d (7 replies)

I don't think they allow for that sort of bets. But I found this bizarre one

ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 238d (1 reply)

Tbf it's not that weird, the death was so suspicious some theorized at the time that he wasn't even killed, the pics faked his death and the state "confirmed" it but in reality they shipped him off somewhere quiet to continue his Mossad blackmail ring.

Idk if that's true but honestly we're talking about a Mossad agent that had dirt on everyone and state level actors who would have been the help, it is possible, very possible, that it's true, but afaik there's no evidence other than speculation, so it probably isn't. I'm agnostic on it personally.

Saapas@piefed.zip · 8 pts · 238d

I guess I was just expecting to see that one. But there's something fun about these conspiracy theories being open to gambling. I'm gonna bet on steel beams not being able to melt with jet fuel. Gonna mortage my house on that!

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@piefed.world · 4 pts · 237d (1 reply)

Are there any bets on whether or not the Twin Towers are still there and David Copperfield only made it look like they'd been destroyed?

Saapas@piefed.zip · 3 pts · 237d

Of course there aren't. Everyone knows Chris "The Mindfreak" Angel did that

OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 238d (2 replies)

That bet is really dumb to take, since locking your money up for 1 year to win 3% isn't worth it

AlDente@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 237d (1 reply)

You silly goose. The current chance of winning is listed at 3%, not the earnings.

explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 237d

Their point is interesting, though. There's a lot of important stuff in the far future for which accurate odds would help society, but it's effectively impossible to bet on because of high inflation and rug pulls.

Right now we only have secondary indicators, like homeowners insurance pulling out of Florida.

socsa@piefed.social · 6 pts · 237d (1 reply)
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RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 237d

Grifter’s gonna grift.

Syndication@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 237d

Ever since "Predictive markets" were made legal in 2015 has unfortunately made gambling much more degenerate in the US.

cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 46 pts · 237d (6 replies)

Well yea, is it not blatantly obvious to everyone that bad actors will use this "bet on anything" bullshit to grift the system?

I'm certain the people who run the websites know this and don't give a shit, because it's profitable.

IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 237d (1 reply)

The weird thing is that it provides OPSEC to US opponents. Simply watch polymarket for a yolo bet

ronl2k@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 237d
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NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 237d (2 replies)

You can't really stop it when you make a decentralized platform like that.

It's like saying we made cash and we knew people would fund terrorism with it but oh well.

A decentralized betting platform has benefits. It also has detriments.

Any website involved is really just a front end. It's on the blockchain and can be used regardless of website and its there forever now, but the website definitely makes it easier to use.

cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 237d

Grifting and and inequality is a baked in part of capitalism. I don't think you can get around it without fundamentally shifting your approach to money

NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 237d

Also worth adding...

If the owners do have a way to prevent something at the smart contract level, and that was ever compromised (e.g arrested by FBI) and someone was able to just prevent all bets, absolutely nothing is stopping someone else from copying the contracts, removing that ability, and re uploading it.

jerkface@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 237d
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thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 238d (13 replies)

How is this legal

OshagHennessey@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 237d (3 replies)

Crime is legal now

thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 237d (1 reply)

I hate that I was primed for a world with rules when there are none.

cheesybuddha@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 237d

Well, you still have to follow the rules. Unless you want to get shot of put into a box for the rest of your life.

MoffKalast@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 237d

Always has been if you're rich.

OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 238d

The real answer is nuanced, but a combination of "it wasn't, until bribary", "enforcement is difficult", "it's built to be nuanced around regulation", "it depends where", and "it's decentralized"

whoisearth@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 238d (1 reply)

Gambling.

It's disgusting but not necessarily illegal.

theneverfox@pawb.social · 7 pts · 237d

It's unrelated gambling to be specific. You can fix the results or have insider knowledge

BigPotato@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 237d (1 reply)

I bet you a dollar that the ratio of votes on your post will be some number by January 11th.

I bet you a dollar that President Trump will not live to see 2037.

We're just two people making bets here. Anyone want to sidebar on this action?

NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 237d

I'll make a bet on how many bets you get!

yeather@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 237d (3 replies)

Legally they are not betting against the house. People are betting against each other on if a certain event will happen, and the site takes a set percentage for facilitating the bets. This makes it legal under gambling laws in most US States.

NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 237d

It probably can't be stopped either at this point.

Assuming it was illegal, they could arrest the developers because they are earning money on it, but arresting them and taking the website down won't stop people from using it as it's smart contract based on a blockchain. The website is just the front end, the blockchain/smart contract is the backend.

So now you gotta go after the individuals using it, who could annonymize their funds through something like Tornado Cash, making it pretty hard to stop.

thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 237d (1 reply)

So if I opened a physical casino with let's say roulette without 00 but a commission charge to play it's legal?

yeather@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 236d

No, roulette is still betting against the house. A more apt comparison is poker, the house has nothing to do with the outcome or the game and has no stakes in the winner or loser when legal. This is why many will either take a percentage of the pot to recoop the cost of facilitating the game and dealer, about 2% I think, or have a membership fee. In many states poker only card houses or card clubs are completely legal.

palmtrees2309@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 237d (2 replies)

Polymarket, Kalshi and others are Insider trading systems camoflauged as a "Truth Seeker" but at the end, It is a gamble even worse than a gambling casino. The insider trader has a incentive to stack odds against oneself and "beat" a better likelihood in the market. Even as a truth finder, It works at the last second before the actual reveal.

deHaga@feddit.uk · 12 pts · 237d (1 reply)

Corrupt politicians are corrupt. More at 11.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 237d

This is an interation above simply taking a few hundred stuffed into a potato chip bag.

TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip · 36 pts · 237d (1 reply)

My question is what are the other predictions

ronl2k@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 237d
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asg101@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 29 pts · 237d (3 replies)

I still want to know who made $$millions shorting American and United Airlines before 9/11.

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 236d (2 replies)

It was $5 million, and the money is unclaimed on the Chicago stock exchange.

asg101@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 236d (1 reply)

Someone has to know who placed the order.

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 236d

all that is confidential unless SEC form 4.

homoludens@feddit.org · 22 pts · 238d

The obvious question is: what other bets did they make? (though those may of course be decoys)

MuskyMelon@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 237d (1 reply)

Barron is doing this shit.

daannii@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 237d

Can we make a bet on that ?

fox2263@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 238d (22 replies)

How does one bet on random things like this. What’s the website? I have a few predictions of my own…

abcd@feddit.org · 33 pts · 238d (13 replies)

It seems to be this site: https://polymarket.com/

naeap@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 238d (12 replies)

How does this work?

Who verifies, that a bet is done and which statement was correct?

InnerScientist@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 238d (10 replies)

Anyone can dispute a proposed market resolution if they feel it was proposed in error. Once a market is proposed for resolution it goes into a challenge period of 2 hours. If no one challenges the proposal the resolution is deemed valid and the proposer receives their bond back plus the reward. During the 2-hour challenge period, anyone may dispute the proposal on the UMA dapp by posting a challenge bond of the same amount as the proposer bond (usually $750). This begins the debate period of 24-48 hours (votes happen every other day and there will always be at least 24 hours for discussion). Anyone wishing to contribute evidence to the discussion can do so in the Uma Discord server in the #evidence-rationale and #voting-discussion channels. After the debate period, Uma token holders vote (this process takes approximately 48 hours)

https://docs.polymarket.com/polymarket-learn/markets/how-are-markets-resolved

https://docs.polymarket.com/polymarket-learn/markets/dispute

Saapas@piefed.zip · 16 pts · 238d

I... what? And they're using Discord to discuss stuff? Sounds legit 

naeap@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 238d (1 reply)

Thank you very much for the explanation!

Although I find 2h a bit short, especially for small betting pools, where there is a high chance that mostly people sleep, work or do something else

InnerScientist@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 238d

I also read that there's some rule chaneges (on what is considered yes/no) by polymark on some bets and general complaints, don't know if those are just sore losers or valid but I'd read up on that if you want to bet on the platform, I've never used the service.

socsa@piefed.social · 12 pts · 237d (1 reply)
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Skankhunt420@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 237d

Its even worse than that

https://coinmarketcap.com/academy/article/polymarket-reports-unprecedented-governance-attack-by-uma-whale-on-bet-resolution

The whales can manipulate the bets and make themselves win even if it doesn't happen.

I love crypto, but this shit is a pure scam.

fartographer@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 237d (4 replies)

So, I can bet on whether I'm gonna shit my pants this year? Great way to lift my spirits if I were to shit my pants.

InnerScientist@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 237d (3 replies)

You'd have to convince enough people that you aren't going to shit your pants first "@fartographer@lemmy.world"

fartographer@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 237d (2 replies)

Hey y'all. It's been a while since I've shit my pants. And I really think I can make it a full year this time!

TehWorld@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 237d

If you offer enough odds, someone would take it just to make you shit your pants and prove it. A one penny bet with $10,000 payout? Maybe you forget about it and come 2026 some idiot takes you for a wad-o-cash.

nameisnotimportant@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 237d

I'm wondering the same thing as well, seems very risky

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 238d (6 replies)

So goodbye to your money for me

explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 237d (5 replies)

There's some bets I wouldn't mind losing.

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 237d (4 replies)

Hate to have to break it to you, but placing bets doesn't alter the outcome.

explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 237d (3 replies)

When the total amount wagered is large relative to the event, it creates an incentive for people to do things about it.

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 237d (1 reply)

Is that what you're going to do?

explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 237d

By myself? Too poor.

IronBird@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 237d

eh, when there's large discrepancies it's more so about making $ on the swings up until the event passes. it's called arbitrage, it's not gambling if you know the actual likely result...then it's just mathing out the risk/reward and win/loss ratios

markovs_gun@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 237d

Kalshi is the other big one

justsomeguy@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 238d

This is all a sick game

Could be the name of the website. Close your eyes. Walk away from the screen.

plyth@feddit.org · 9 pts · 238d

Till Jan 5th or earlier would have been suspicious. Jan 31 is the safe bet. The US had sent a carrier group and some people mentioned that the costs dictate that they had to act within one month.

Darkness343@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 237d

This is just a big Stellaris simulation. It's just that we haven't founded the United Nations of Earth and reached the year 2200 yet.

kinther@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 237d

Seems sus

LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 238d

What were the vets before it. It's a dumb bet.. but those may point

brianary@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 237d

Why is the date of the post omitted? When was "last night"?

roserose56@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 238d

Inside tips! Like with the stocks couple months back? Sit and watch like you always do and our feature will stay the same.

lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 237d (1 reply)

How does that platform work? Can you still place bets when rockets hit Venezuela? Can you still place bets when people speculate he was already abducted?

Lee@retrolemmy.com · 2 pts · 236d

You can still bet on near certain events / events in progress, but there's not necessarily a benefit in doing so as the odds shift. If something is believed to have a 50% chance of occurring then theoretically the bet would cost 0.5 for a payout of 1 (of you win). As the outcome becomes more (or less) likely, the cost of the bet changes to reflect that. In a prediction market, it's similar to stock market in that in order for you to buy a share / place a prediction bet, someone has to be selling a share/taking the other side of the bet and the prices shift based on perceived value of the underlying thing being traded (stocks or predictions).

antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -8 pts · 238d (6 replies)

What's sick about that, though? Guy had reliable insider info and made money off a cancerous gambling site. Good for him.

NewDark@lemmings.world · 29 pts · 238d (3 replies)

No, they made money off the people predicting the opposite. The gambling website simply skims off the top for the privilege of setting up the bet.

antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 238d (2 replies)

Fair enough.

But I still don't see the problem with the way the guy won. The actual problems are the gambling website itself and people being stupid/gullible/addicted enough to waste money on it.

Lauchmelder@feddit.org · 19 pts · 238d

In a regulated market this sort of thing would be called "insider trading" and is highly illegal, usually. Then again betting on unregulated "markets" is just asking to be ripped by people with insider info

Serinus@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 238d

The website is made for people with knowledge to leak sensitive info.

Deceptichum@quokk.au · 6 pts · 238d (1 reply)
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antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 238d

they should have been trying to alert people to it

They would probably end up being criminally prosecuted for leaking the info, and I doubt some rando would be believed this stuff anyway, or even be able to reach any relevant audience. Unless they were a journalist (apparently some knew about it but kept silent), but again, leaking this would be suicidal.

They profited off having good connections in a powerful imperialist state, and the naïve gamblers; dead civilians were irrelevant for the outcome. There's way too many layers of rot at play for me to find this story in specific to be notably bad.

treadful@lemmy.zip · -9 pts · 238d (4 replies)

I prefer seeing these as predictive markets than (only) degenerate gambling. They've been shown to be pretty accurate in predicting a lot of things. Can be useful crowdsourcing gut checks.

CosmoNova@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 238d (2 replies)

I prefer seeing them regulated out of existence because it‘s just unchained sports bets in the worst way possible and poison to society.

Arrkk@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 238d

This is why I only pay attention to manifold, it's funny money only, salty bet style, actually just fun instead of a horrifying gambling addiction.

explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 237d

You can regulate them down, but they'll always exist on the dark web.

Skankhunt420@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 237d

They've also had whales manipulate the odds to win even if they actually loose.

https://coinmarketcap.com/academy/article/polymarket-reports-unprecedented-governance-attack-by-uma-whale-on-bet-resolution

So you can predict that rich assholes will come out on top every single time and with that metric sure it can be a predictive market. But not accurate.