This is part of JD Vance and Peter Thiel's theological beliefs. They're "Rad Trads" - as is Steve Bannon. A radical group of extremist Catholics who are trying to destroy the world as they believe only if there's an apocalypse will Jesus return.
They should be treated as Religious Extremists, and terrorists, and everyone including the Pope should vocally condemn them.
JD (Vance is not his real name) is an admitted liar so I would not believe a word he says. The truth is fungible according to his agenda as he as said.
He is going to hell because he is a greedy money hoarder/billionaire. If he gave away all his money to the poor and devoted his life to the works of Christ (Beatitudes-serving the poor, clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, welcoming the stranger, comforting the imprisoned, caring for the sick) he might have a chance.
My dad is (was?) one of these. The dissonance was one of the reasons I rejected religion - their Bible tells them to be good stewards, but when asked why he supports stuff that harms the environment my dad's excuse was that the world was ending soon and only those who didn't get raptured would even be impacted by it.
I checked, the Bible doesn't contain some "shit on the environment if the world is ending soon" clause or exception.
The "Rad Trads" - Catholic radical traditionalists including JD Vance and Peter Thiel believe they're bringing about the apocalypse so that Jesus will return.
They've been saying it pretty much since about 30 seconds after Christ died, and I'm sure they're all just a reskinning of even older apocalypse myths.
What's worse are the rich, out-of-touch fucks who should know better, are so narcissistic and so afraid of death. What they fear about it, is that the world will continue on without them. They'd rather the world end when they end. As far as they're concerned:
The world as we know it did not exist prior to their being born into it.
The world was made for them and their descendants to enjoy. All others are expendable tokens to spend as they please.
If they are mortal, then the world should not continue to exist after their deaths.
Oh, like Peter Thiel and his little plasma addiction and preoccupation with the antichrist ? Like that dude didn't make his deal with the devil. He has as much chance as going to heaven as a camel walking through the eye of a needle. No wonder he is trying to live forever.
Metaphysics notwithstanding, he's narcissistic to the point of believing that he's "one order of magnitude above human". The rest of us? We're the first stage on the rocket. He not only wants to live forever, he wants to live above we mere mortals, free of all our petty needs and desires. This world is his playground, his toy; created for him and other billionaires like him. And if he and they can't have it, then, they've ultimately decided nobody can.
They been saying it a lot longer than that. The 7th Day Adventists, who own all the hospitals in my area, are a Mormon splinter group who followed a guy who had calculated the exact date of the end of the Earth, and that was way back in the late 19th century. He kept re-calculating and moving the date.
End of the world predictors have been around far longer than that.
They're a Millerite splinter not Mormon when the Millerites imploded after multiple failed predictions it created several new religions, the biggest two being being Jehovah's witnesses and Seventh day advenentists. They came out of the same religious spring as the Mormons and Christian scientists for example but are more or less unrelated outside of being nominally Christian. There used to be more groups from that era but most of them were Christian socialists and were more or less all killed off by the 1950s.
Sorry about the pedantry but my kin have been fueding with the fucken Seventh Day Adventists since they moved into what is now Loma Linda California back in the early 1900s.
It was a pretty big deal in 2000, too, with Y2K. It wasnt the literal end of the world they were afraid of, more like a computer end of the world, but it turned out to be as overblown as Y1K.
People who believe in prophesied apocalyptic events should not be in positions of power, because they have a tendency to try to make those prophesies self-fulfilling.
We need separation of church and state, but we also need ways to establish an expectation that religious institutions will at least not promote beliefs that directly go against established science and reason.
I think that things like this can really only be approached with a long view in mind. Progressions and regressions are always happening. We're going through a rather massive regression currently, but any belief system that refuses to change according to actual facts is basically at war with reality itself, and doomed to failure by their own inability to adapt.
As far as an actual approach, it should be social allelopathy. There's a good reason this christofascist regime is so bent on attacking education - it's because their crazy beliefs have a tendency to dissolve under any scrutiny. The more we can provide robust, truthful education to all, the more it buffers people, if not necessarily to atheism, at least to religion that can coexist with common sense.
And that goes for religious institutions to. Support what you believe. If you're atheist, there are groups who organize around that.
Really have to wonder why these people can't just you know go find a compound somewhere and make some special Kool-Aid or something. Why do they got to drag the rest of us into it?
The way the religion is presented to them ties it very purposefully with actual history which, for many of them, gives it all the authenticity needed to believe the crazy shit.
That fact is important because itâs also why they wonât leave us alone, they think the entirety of mankinds existence revolves around these end times ideas and indeed their beliefs REQUIRE there to be non-believers that suffer for rejecting it.
...leads to dangerous behaviours, feelings of invincibility, superiority, delusions...and worst of all: it's contagious and spreads through speech and culture.
I love running into these people. Hell isnât scriptural and itâs easy to bring the receipts. They are cultists, so you wonât change their mind, but they will never forget you or how you knew their fake religion better than they did. I always hope that a seed planted in their diseased minds eventually sprouts, but itâs still fun to give them a solid intellectual wallop.
You misunderstand, it's not my God, I don't have one at the moment, but I am accepting applications.
My "receipts" are their claims, collected in the King James Bible (one of many interpretations; not even a complete collection of claims really). I'm able to show what they claim to be true, not the actual truth itself.
I was responding to someone who said they had receipts for their claims (that Hell isn't scriptural), why would I need to provide any? My receipt is the KJV, which is scriptural.
I'm not making the assertion, friend, but I am responding to an assertion.
As someone who grew up with parents who believed the rapture was constantly about to happen, this is really not newsworthy at all. The predicted date shifts a couple of years each time another one passes by without anything happening. The most original I thought was some date in 1998, because that's 3 times 666. But really, it's just a random number from some swindler, usually.
It's newsworthy because these people are in power in the US, and starting major wars and attacking sovereign nations on several continents.
Not all of them believe the people who come up with dates, my parents just go by vibes and stupid shit that they see as fulfilled prophecy.
Just don't ask them about all those prophecies that were fulfilled back in the mid 90s when they were certain Jesus' return was just around the corner. Or about all those same prophecies that were fulfilled again in the early 00s. Or about all those same prophecies that were fulfilled again around 2008. Or about all those same prophecies that were fulfilled again in 2016. Or...
You know the funny thing is there's actually a biblical calculation that puts the end of the world around 204X that several well known Christian Theoloegians calculated including Isaac Newton.
It seems odd to me that fanatics ignore this prediction and insist on accelerating the end times or claim that the rapture is tomorrow.
The other funny thing is all the insane level of violence and corruption that both Christian and Islamic eschatologies warn about in great detail.
If you're familiar with either source, the irony is astounding. People read a big fat warning about the end times and then decided "We can accelerate this and make it into heaven by playing the explicitly evil guys in this big fat warning".
Indeed. Evangelical MAGA really didn't read their book. It says that no one can accelerate or manufacture the time. If it happens, people will not realize what is going on until the last minute.
Isaac Newton was also obsessed with alchemy, so...
Their own book literally says that nobody knows (or can know) the day. The "real" fanatics don't fall for the people who give specific dates. Probably because most of them were burnt before lol
Fucking kill us all because school teachers are secretly centaurs in disguise and the Ark of the Covenant contains a coupon for a free Lexus, and if you're special enough to believe in White Jesus then heaven is a gated community, and they have the best HOA ever.
Like, maybe it's just better if Homo Sapiens doesn't survive?
My personal favourite is the woman whose chicken laid eggs with "Christ is coming" etched on them. Turned out she was writing on the eggs herself and pushing them back up the chicken's bottom.
Funny thing is I grew up evangelical and Trump fits their description of the anti christ down to the letter. Maybe thatâs why they love him? A masochistic religious love for the one they know is evil
May 21, 2011 was supposed to be the rapture or end of the world or whatever. I remember this because it was also my wedding day. Lived outside DC at the time and there were all these people holding signs and wearing shirts about it. We joked about getting a few for my bachelor party ("ha ha the world is ending on that day ... FOR HIM!"). Never did it. But I had a great wedding.
Well thats a crackpot theory if I ever heard one. Jesus isn't real, and never was. Any apocalyptic preacher who thought they were the son of God just had schizophrenia
There is no literature. Information is a terrain of struggle, fit only for attacks and tribal virtue signalling. By not already knowing this you have proven you're a fascist or other thing i dislike.
Why are you assuming that? Nothing in the caption or article says that, and they are mixed in with the Christians. Usually counter protestors and protestors are kinda separated.
Absolutely 100% certain. Evangelicals and support for trans rights have never mixed. There's also significant physical distance in the picture, look at the ground.
Yeah but Evangelicals are also hypocritical, they can pretend you are all right if you believe in what they actually care about which is Zionism and the Apocalypse.
IDK the two people in the front look about 6 feet apart, and the person with the trans flag looks about 10ft behind both of them. Doesn't seem to be a well attended protest.
I love this. I especially love that you can bet on this now, too. It's the only good thing PolyMarket has ever done is allow betting on "Jesus will return in 2026"
However, practically, Trump is placating a large voting base and source of money ahead of the midterms. Churches can do what a bunch of MAGA influencers can't do - convince people it's God's plan for them to pay $5 a gallon for gas. He needs them, this is what they wanted. It's purely transactional.
Oh wow, easy bet every year right there. And the only people losing money from it are psycho Christians.
Just thinking about the logic here... If you believe Jesus is coming and he's taking you with him, isn't this bet a no-win situation?
Let's say for argument's sake, he comes back. You've been raptured, so you're literally unable to collect your winnings (and why would you even want to?).
Obviously, logic and rationality isn't their strong suit, but goddamn they really didn't think it through.
Yeah, logically it makes zero sense to bet for it other than ego-soothing. Which even that barely makes sense. And it's not like the Christians can bet $1 million, either. The funds get withdrawn and held, so you're literally out money and wouldn't ever collect on the winnings.
Might as well bet on an asteroid hitting earth and wiping out all life on earth. To win the bet, you have to be dead.
Number of "prophecy" end of the world claims that have been: countless
Number of "prophecy" end of the world claims that have been correct: zero
Quack idiots gonna do quack idiot things, and there's usually a few quack idiots who stand to gain a LOT by convincing the other quack idiots to do things
I lived in the Deep South for a number of years and these idiots are everywhere and think literally everything is a sign of the end times. Hurricane coming? End times. War breaks out anywhere in the world? End times. House fire? End times. Bad cell phone service? End times. Red light taking too long? End times.
These dipshits are brainwashed and thereâs no getting through to them.
No argument there. I'm in the north and they're the same here, just less willing to openly share their "views". I think the only real difference between the south and the north is that up here they still (somehow) maintain the slightest amount of shame- at least enough to mostly keep their mouths shut about it.
So God has a plan for the end times but humans can hasten that plan, that means humans can force God to change his plans. That isn't much of a God you have there. May I suggest picking another imaginary super power, or better yet, none at all?
Also: praying for a beneficial outcome.
Which means changing god's plans!
I can't wait for sports matches to turn into praying-matches, whomever prays the best, wins!
This is your captain speaking, just a friendly reminder trying to make the Apocalypse happen on your schedule will get you a free upgrade to first class on our descent into Hell where the temp is a scorching 69° nice
Well yeah... Christianity is a death cult. Since the very beginning they've been saying that the end times are coming soon. I guess some of them finally realise 2000 years is in no way "soon" and maybe they need to do something about it.
Who ever said there aren't still disciples? It's literally the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20; also Mark 16:15-16).
^(19)Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, ^(20)and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
The problem is that he's in the position to make it happen, one way or another. There is no future consequences that can be imposed on those bringing about the end of the future itself.
Politics and religion have literally been the same thing for most of human history. Religion itself was the mistake. You might even say that the invention of religion was humanityâs original sin.
Letting their ideas go unchallenged is the first problem, just quietly letting the Christian cultural hegemony exist while politely not calling out their bullshit at every opportunity. So I suggest we stop being quiet. Superstition and ancient rituals should not be normalized like they are and so many facets of society exist because of Christianity and people aren't even aware. Things as fundamental as the structure of the week, loads of laws, damn near every federal holiday...
@Soggy You haven't answered my question. What is your proposed alternative to "allowing religion to continue to fester"? Some kind of police state? Laws against religion? Who will create and enforce such laws, in a democratic society with many religious people? Or do you propose an armed coup? What?
Stop being polite, stop letting their ideas and proposals slide without calling them out for what they are, stop being quiet. It's not about laws it's about changing social norms. Make religious people feel weird and let them know their perspective is not the default. Have the argument at Thanksgiving instead of biting your tongue.
The "end times" have been coming for 2,000 years now. You'd think after the first 500 or so they would have started reevaluating their prophecies... But religion is a helluva drug.
The 'end times' are coming. The END of letting these incompetent cult members have any control over other people's lives.
We will chase you all back into the shadows where you freaks belong.
Fuck yeah hell is eternal đ€đ»đ We will fight in the Skeleton War forever, bathed in everlasting fire ! Who could ever get bored of that much fun !?
Knowing there are no gods, no heavens or hells or angels or demons or devils or purgatories... knowing that, and knowing that anything written about gods (dogma) is made up nonense dreamed up in the minds of human monkeys, and knowing the people who profess gods the loudest are raking in money from the people who believe in things that don't exist...
I'm pretty sure all that about "the end of days" is just more religious claptrap.
{sigh} I wish those people, "the believers", didn't have 2nd or 3rd rate brains. It would be so much better for all of us if they could think.
I mean...many great thinkers in history (Locke, Newton, Rosseau, Voltaire, Smith, PS even Darwin was agnostic, but still theist) did believe in god (maybe it was just a cultural thing, since they could not disprove it), but that did not cloud their judgement of what is true and what is moral...so even they advocated for freedom of religion.
This could also have been because the memory of the european wars of religion (30 years war) was fresh in public memory, like the world wars are in ours.
Of course god has been big throughout history. Half the population (or more) of any country at any time in history are ignorant - incapable of reading (and comprehension), writing or simple math (JUST like America right now). "God" loves him some ignorant human monkeys because they do what they're told - usually to give god money or godlike places to live.
Religion and gods are crutches used by people who do not take responsibility for what they do... it's much easier to say "god told me to do this" than it is to intelligently justify murdering people for god, or stealing land for god, or even just being a general asshole "as long as god is okay with it".
The people running the world right now ALL know there is no god - and yet... notice how they profess and use "their god" to shape the minds of the idiots.
Yes, it is used an instrument of control by callous leaders and to enforce conformity...I was just saying that even intelligent people can believe in it (like they can in modern conspiracy theories), even if it is just a basic requisite of belonging to your community. Unlike Spinoza and Galileo, who got excommunicated for being too public with their free thinking.
PS: same for Mu'tazilism, it failed because it forced rationalism on people...whereas St. Augustine tried a more conciliatory approach.
187 Comments
RaoulDuke85@piefed.social · 118 pts · 160d
We can just throw them in fire if they want.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 17 pts · 160d
đŹ
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 160d
No no no. That's not the right response! What you should be doing, is burning a fascist.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 13 pts · 160d
potato potato?
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net · 8 pts · 160d
Isn't that literally what they're suggesting?
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 160d
I thought the sucking teeth thing meant "Yikes" which means they disagree and find it offensive?
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 160d
Not a clue, but I do agree with burning fascists
youcantreadthis@quokk.au · 2 pts · 160d
Do there exist christians who arent?
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 160d
Yes. A large number of them actually.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 160d
The quiet ones who don't attract notice, power, fame, or fortune...
youcantreadthis@quokk.au · 3 pts · 160d
Its not that i dont believe you
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 160d
So every single MAGA member?
DarkCloud@lemmy.world · 86 pts · 160d
This is part of JD Vance and Peter Thiel's theological beliefs. They're "Rad Trads" - as is Steve Bannon. A radical group of extremist Catholics who are trying to destroy the world as they believe only if there's an apocalypse will Jesus return.
They should be treated as Religious Extremists, and terrorists, and everyone including the Pope should vocally condemn them.
paraphrand@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 160d
I wonder if they are actually believers. Or if they just recognize how to perpetuate and foment belief in the public.
Lucelu2@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 160d
JD (Vance is not his real name) is an admitted liar so I would not believe a word he says. The truth is fungible according to his agenda as he as said.
slaacaa@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 160d
I think not, they are just accelerationists
paraphrand@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 160d
Yea, it occurs to me that Thiel is doing these talks, and making them private, and managing to keep them from leaking, to make them mythic/mysterious.
kevin2107@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 160d
isn't Theil gay and going to hell already?
lagoon8622@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 160d
Of course, but you won't find much gold digging in those ideological Möbius strips
kevin2107@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 160d
yeah thats true
Lucelu2@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 160d
He is going to hell because he is a greedy money hoarder/billionaire. If he gave away all his money to the poor and devoted his life to the works of Christ (Beatitudes-serving the poor, clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, welcoming the stranger, comforting the imprisoned, caring for the sick) he might have a chance.
jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 160d
Imagine working that hard to bring about Christ's return only to get a "yeah... I don't know you, buddy. Sorry." from Jesus.
youcantreadthis@quokk.au · 4 pts · 160d
Posadism, but dumber and worse!
Zikeji@programming.dev · 77 pts · 160d
My dad is (was?) one of these. The dissonance was one of the reasons I rejected religion - their Bible tells them to be good stewards, but when asked why he supports stuff that harms the environment my dad's excuse was that the world was ending soon and only those who didn't get raptured would even be impacted by it.
I checked, the Bible doesn't contain some "shit on the environment if the world is ending soon" clause or exception.
Blaster_M@lemmy.world · 48 pts · 160d
It actually says the opposite: "He will put to ruin those ruining the earth"
Drusas@fedia.io · 8 pts · 160d
Maybe remind such people that humans aren't "the world".
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 160d
Their book tells them that humans have dominion over all other forms of life on the planet so good luck with that
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 160d
That's the thing about the Bible, it says whatever the Christian wants it to say for any given situation and doesn't need to be self consistent
youcantreadthis@quokk.au · 4 pts · 160d
Its implied, like the rape cults snd persecution of queer people.
aviationeast@lemmy.world · 66 pts · 160d
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 160d
I never watched parks and rec but didn't that end before Trump's run, and wasn't that character like a big-L libertarian?
xistera@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 34 pts · 160d
The line from the show is âI have an uncle who does yogaâ.
Drusas@fedia.io · 7 pts · 160d
Yes.
TrollTrollrolllol@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 160d
Kind of in a comically over the top way, but in all fairness libertarians are comical.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 64 pts · 160d
ceenote@lemmy.world · 52 pts · 160d
Because they're a death cult.
DarkCloud@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 160d
The "Rad Trads" - Catholic radical traditionalists including JD Vance and Peter Thiel believe they're bringing about the apocalypse so that Jesus will return.
So yes, death cult.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 6 pts · 160d
Ghostie@lemmy.zip · 36 pts · 160d
Almacca@aussie.zone · 25 pts · 160d
They've been saying it pretty much since about 30 seconds after Christ died, and I'm sure they're all just a reskinning of even older apocalypse myths.
Ghostie@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 160d
Almacca@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 160d
[Hecklefish voice] AAAA-nunnaki!
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 160d
Most of the Rapture beliefs are more based on late 19th and early 20th-century fanfic.
BanMe@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 160d
"You will know not the day nor the hour," says this instruction manual to life they keep referencing when questioned about their weird behavior.
Ghostie@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 160d
AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 160d
What's worse are the rich, out-of-touch fucks who should know better, are so narcissistic and so afraid of death. What they fear about it, is that the world will continue on without them. They'd rather the world end when they end. As far as they're concerned:
Lucelu2@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 160d
Oh, like Peter Thiel and his little plasma addiction and preoccupation with the antichrist ? Like that dude didn't make his deal with the devil. He has as much chance as going to heaven as a camel walking through the eye of a needle. No wonder he is trying to live forever.
AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
Metaphysics notwithstanding, he's narcissistic to the point of believing that he's "one order of magnitude above human". The rest of us? We're the first stage on the rocket. He not only wants to live forever, he wants to live above we mere mortals, free of all our petty needs and desires. This world is his playground, his toy; created for him and other billionaires like him. And if he and they can't have it, then, they've ultimately decided nobody can.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 160d
They are so arrogant that they think they can force God's hand.
backalleycoyote@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 159d
Dumbasses. Everyone knows the spell for kickstarting the Apocalypse is found in the Book of Vile Darkness, not Exalted Deeds.
Ghostie@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 159d
backalleycoyote@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 159d
This is what happens when your entire party wants to play paladins.
harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 159d
Ah, but they then will point to the Book of Daniel and Revelations, which contain all sorts of timelines and mileposts.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 160d
They been saying it a lot longer than that. The 7th Day Adventists, who own all the hospitals in my area, are a Mormon splinter group who followed a guy who had calculated the exact date of the end of the Earth, and that was way back in the late 19th century. He kept re-calculating and moving the date.
End of the world predictors have been around far longer than that.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 160d
They're a Millerite splinter not Mormon when the Millerites imploded after multiple failed predictions it created several new religions, the biggest two being being Jehovah's witnesses and Seventh day advenentists. They came out of the same religious spring as the Mormons and Christian scientists for example but are more or less unrelated outside of being nominally Christian. There used to be more groups from that era but most of them were Christian socialists and were more or less all killed off by the 1950s.
Sorry about the pedantry but my kin have been fueding with the fucken Seventh Day Adventists since they moved into what is now Loma Linda California back in the early 1900s.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 160d
Valid, good post.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 160d
There was big end-of-the-world hysteria when the year 1000 was coming up. And dozens of dates after that.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 160d
It was a pretty big deal in 2000, too, with Y2K. It wasnt the literal end of the world they were afraid of, more like a computer end of the world, but it turned out to be as overblown as Y1K.
circuscritic@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 160d
But they've never been this close to the nuclear football.
Ghostie@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 160d
PunnyName@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 160d
So the guy within arm's reach of the nuclear football...
Ghostie@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 160d
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 2 pts · 160d
To be fair, that guy IS on social media. A lot.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 6 pts · 160d
Yeah, but now they found a fool capable of leading them there for lulz.
Ghostie@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 160d
quick_snail@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 159d
Well, I'm about to join them
The nuclear clock is closer to midnight than it has ever been in all history
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 34 pts · 160d
Last time the rapture was no fun...it is only fun if they fuck shit up and take everyone with them...
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 32 pts · 160d
This guy literally can't do anything wrong
Makes everything great -> obviously amazing leader
Fucks everything up -> this guy will save us from the fucked up world
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 31 pts · 160d
People who believe in prophesied apocalyptic events should not be in positions of power, because they have a tendency to try to make those prophesies self-fulfilling.
We need separation of church and state, but we also need ways to establish an expectation that religious institutions will at least not promote beliefs that directly go against established science and reason.
rami@ani.social · 5 pts · 159d
Agreed. Now how do we go about achieving that when a good chunk of the country thinks not Christian=evil Christian killer?
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 159d
I think that things like this can really only be approached with a long view in mind. Progressions and regressions are always happening. We're going through a rather massive regression currently, but any belief system that refuses to change according to actual facts is basically at war with reality itself, and doomed to failure by their own inability to adapt.
As far as an actual approach, it should be social allelopathy. There's a good reason this christofascist regime is so bent on attacking education - it's because their crazy beliefs have a tendency to dissolve under any scrutiny. The more we can provide robust, truthful education to all, the more it buffers people, if not necessarily to atheism, at least to religion that can coexist with common sense.
And that goes for religious institutions to. Support what you believe. If you're atheist, there are groups who organize around that.
njm1314@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 160d
Really have to wonder why these people can't just you know go find a compound somewhere and make some special Kool-Aid or something. Why do they got to drag the rest of us into it?
cmbabul@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 160d
The way the religion is presented to them ties it very purposefully with actual history which, for many of them, gives it all the authenticity needed to believe the crazy shit.
That fact is important because itâs also why they wonât leave us alone, they think the entirety of mankinds existence revolves around these end times ideas and indeed their beliefs REQUIRE there to be non-believers that suffer for rejecting it.
Itâs really dumb and upsetting
quick_snail@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 159d
Those were revolutionary communists. The left.
These christian folks are the right. They prefer to murder brown people than kill themselves to bring about awareness to class struggle.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 159d
It's not that simple, a substantial amount of Christians are "left".
Jonestown is the most infamous example.
In short, Christian preachers will gladly take ANYONE'S money, regardless of their political persuasion.
Why not? It's tax free!
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 26 pts · 159d
Religion is a mental illness. Not adjacent, similar to, nearby, but full-on delusion.
And also by far the greatest threat humanity is facing.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 6 pts · 159d
...leads to dangerous behaviours, feelings of invincibility, superiority, delusions...and worst of all: it's contagious and spreads through speech and culture.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 160d
Do these clowns not understand that by wishing trump start their armageddon that it makes him the antichrist?
They are following and encouraging the antichrist?
So yeah, yâall talibangelicals going to your hell.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 160d
Logic like that doesn't work on these people.
Kintarian@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 159d
Can we rapture them all up so I can get some peace and quiet?
DERRALEXANO@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 159d
Freedom from religion pls
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 159d
The religous are telling me no.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 159d
I love running into these people. Hell isnât scriptural and itâs easy to bring the receipts. They are cultists, so you wonât change their mind, but they will never forget you or how you knew their fake religion better than they did. I always hope that a seed planted in their diseased minds eventually sprouts, but itâs still fun to give them a solid intellectual wallop.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 159d
I grew up in it, and I love when someone realizes that I know more about their bullshit religion than they do.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 159d
Hell is scriptural, according to the scriptures...
Unless you're referring to the name "Hell" of course, which is not in the Bible.
A place of burning and suffering for all time? Definitely scriptural. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, where the worm dyeth not.
I'm not a Christian, but I do have years upon years upon years upon years of Bible studies.
Bring those receipts! The garbage dump explanation will not suffice (Gehenna)
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 159d
There is no god. Also, no devil. No heaven, no hell, no angels, no demons.
You can also have years of flat Earth studies, and every other religion that will claim anything as well.
It's you who have to provide the receipts.
Can your god regrow a single fingertip? Deflect a single .22LR round? Just by 0.5mm?
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
You misunderstand, it's not my God, I don't have one at the moment, but I am accepting applications.
My "receipts" are their claims, collected in the King James Bible (one of many interpretations; not even a complete collection of claims really). I'm able to show what they claim to be true, not the actual truth itself.
I was responding to someone who said they had receipts for their claims (that Hell isn't scriptural), why would I need to provide any? My receipt is the KJV, which is scriptural.
I'm not making the assertion, friend, but I am responding to an assertion.
Lucelu2@lemmy.zip · 20 pts · 160d
Well, I would not object to those assholes getting raptured any minute now. Less mess and more housing available.
PattyMcB@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 160d
I mean... Trump kind of fits the bill as the false prophet
hitstun@feddit.online · 11 pts · 160d
Trump easily meets the requirements for an Antichrist too.
Pringles@sopuli.xyz · 19 pts · 160d
As someone who grew up with parents who believed the rapture was constantly about to happen, this is really not newsworthy at all. The predicted date shifts a couple of years each time another one passes by without anything happening. The most original I thought was some date in 1998, because that's 3 times 666. But really, it's just a random number from some swindler, usually.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 160d
It's newsworthy because these people are in power in the US, and starting major wars and attacking sovereign nations on several continents.
Not all of them believe the people who come up with dates, my parents just go by vibes and stupid shit that they see as fulfilled prophecy.
Just don't ask them about all those prophecies that were fulfilled back in the mid 90s when they were certain Jesus' return was just around the corner. Or about all those same prophecies that were fulfilled again in the early 00s. Or about all those same prophecies that were fulfilled again around 2008. Or about all those same prophecies that were fulfilled again in 2016. Or...
mlg@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 160d
You know the funny thing is there's actually a biblical calculation that puts the end of the world around 204X that several well known Christian Theoloegians calculated including Isaac Newton.
It seems odd to me that fanatics ignore this prediction and insist on accelerating the end times or claim that the rapture is tomorrow.
The other funny thing is all the insane level of violence and corruption that both Christian and Islamic eschatologies warn about in great detail.
If you're familiar with either source, the irony is astounding. People read a big fat warning about the end times and then decided "We can accelerate this and make it into heaven by playing the explicitly evil guys in this big fat warning".
clutchtwopointzero@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 160d
Indeed. Evangelical MAGA really didn't read their book. It says that no one can accelerate or manufacture the time. If it happens, people will not realize what is going on until the last minute.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 160d
Isaac Newton was also obsessed with alchemy, so...
Their own book literally says that nobody knows (or can know) the day. The "real" fanatics don't fall for the people who give specific dates. Probably because most of them were burnt before lol
j_elgato@leminal.space · 17 pts · 160d
Fetishizing mythology as national policy.
Yeah. Great. Sure.
Fucking kill us all because school teachers are secretly centaurs in disguise and the Ark of the Covenant contains a coupon for a free Lexus, and if you're special enough to believe in White Jesus then heaven is a gated community, and they have the best HOA ever.
Like, maybe it's just better if Homo Sapiens doesn't survive?
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz · 2 pts · 160d
Please don't lump the rest of us in with your shitty christofacist state.
By all means self destruct within your own borders.
BigMacHole@thelemmy.club · 15 pts · 159d
We voted for Trump to DESTROY the WORLD!
-Republicans LITERALLY!
Diddlydee@feddit.uk · 15 pts · 160d
Of course they are... Again.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 159d
Goddamn. Can't this cult just Jonestown themselves already? Seems like the best case scenario for all parties involved.
ProdigiousInsanity@lemmus.org · 14 pts · 160d
Christianity is a death cult.
MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 160d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
My personal favourite is the woman whose chicken laid eggs with "Christ is coming" etched on them. Turned out she was writing on the eggs herself and pushing them back up the chicken's bottom.
quick_snail@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 159d
That's rape
hardcoreufo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
And bestiality.
lemmyng@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 160d
Funny thing is I grew up evangelical and Trump fits their description of the anti christ down to the letter. Maybe thatâs why they love him? A masochistic religious love for the one they know is evil
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 13 pts · 160d
May 21, 2011 was supposed to be the rapture or end of the world or whatever. I remember this because it was also my wedding day. Lived outside DC at the time and there were all these people holding signs and wearing shirts about it. We joked about getting a few for my bachelor party ("ha ha the world is ending on that day ... FOR HIM!"). Never did it. But I had a great wedding.
FEIN@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 160d
End times, just like the ones in 2012 right? Look at how that turned out LMFAO
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 6 pts · 160d
Yes, but now the loonies are running free in the WH fucking with a demented orange clown of a presidont as they please.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 160d
i mean... it was silly before we had a decade of this stupid shit....
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 159d
They have been saying that long before I was born, and will say that long after I'm dead.
Of course they are delighted, they're deluded
flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 160d
Let's say it true and Trump triggers the Armageddon. Then what?
What's the plan here? Force God's hand and summon Jesus back to Earth?
I fail to see how it could possibly go well for them.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 13 pts · 160d
If Jesus were born in Bethlehem again...he'd be Palestinian, imagine their reaction :D
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 160d
I have a theory that Jesus keeps being reborn, but every time he does, his mother is turned away from the bomb shelter for being Palestinian.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 160d
I hope you're being facetious
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 160d
No. I literally think Jesus is being reborn in occupied Palestine and his mother is literally repeatedly dying as a result of the ongoing genocide.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 160d
Well thats a crackpot theory if I ever heard one. Jesus isn't real, and never was. Any apocalyptic preacher who thought they were the son of God just had schizophrenia
NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 160d
My brother in christ please learn to read sarcasm.
(If you're on the spectrum as well, then sorry for not being literal with what I was saying, but STILL)
Also not trying to virtue signal here, but that's kinda offensive to schizophrenics, comparing them to religious zealots
youcantreadthis@quokk.au · 0 pts · 160d
There is no literature. Information is a terrain of struggle, fit only for attacks and tribal virtue signalling. By not already knowing this you have proven you're a fascist or other thing i dislike.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 160d
I asked if you were being serious and you said yes. In what world is that considered sarcasm?
youcantreadthis@quokk.au · 1 pts · 160d
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 159d
Is that a trans flag back in there??
flying_sheep@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 159d
Yes, counter protester.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 159d
Hell yeah! Nice.
hardcoreufo@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 159d
Why are you assuming that? Nothing in the caption or article says that, and they are mixed in with the Christians. Usually counter protestors and protestors are kinda separated.
flying_sheep@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 159d
Absolutely 100% certain. Evangelicals and support for trans rights have never mixed. There's also significant physical distance in the picture, look at the ground.
hardcoreufo@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 159d
Yeah but Evangelicals are also hypocritical, they can pretend you are all right if you believe in what they actually care about which is Zionism and the Apocalypse.
IDK the two people in the front look about 6 feet apart, and the person with the trans flag looks about 10ft behind both of them. Doesn't seem to be a well attended protest.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 160d
I love this. I especially love that you can bet on this now, too. It's the only good thing PolyMarket has ever done is allow betting on "Jesus will return in 2026"
However, practically, Trump is placating a large voting base and source of money ahead of the midterms. Churches can do what a bunch of MAGA influencers can't do - convince people it's God's plan for them to pay $5 a gallon for gas. He needs them, this is what they wanted. It's purely transactional.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 160d
Oh wow, easy bet every year right there. And the only people losing money from it are psycho Christians.
Just thinking about the logic here... If you believe Jesus is coming and he's taking you with him, isn't this bet a no-win situation?
Let's say for argument's sake, he comes back. You've been raptured, so you're literally unable to collect your winnings (and why would you even want to?).
Obviously, logic and rationality isn't their strong suit, but goddamn they really didn't think it through.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
Yeah, logically it makes zero sense to bet for it other than ego-soothing. Which even that barely makes sense. And it's not like the Christians can bet $1 million, either. The funds get withdrawn and held, so you're literally out money and wouldn't ever collect on the winnings.
Might as well bet on an asteroid hitting earth and wiping out all life on earth. To win the bet, you have to be dead.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 159d
they should get a jump start and blow their brains out.
hateisreality@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 159d
Oh no...there's no hypocrits left to tell the rest of is how we live in sin
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 159d
I wouldn't mind them having their Apocalypse, provided it is only shared amongst themselves. The rest of us have our own things to do.
SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 160d
This is the mentality that will have absolute power over our lives, for the rest of this century.
Reygle@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 159d
Number of "prophecy" end of the world claims that have been: countless
Number of "prophecy" end of the world claims that have been correct: zero
Quack idiots gonna do quack idiot things, and there's usually a few quack idiots who stand to gain a LOT by convincing the other quack idiots to do things
gigastasio@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 159d
I lived in the Deep South for a number of years and these idiots are everywhere and think literally everything is a sign of the end times. Hurricane coming? End times. War breaks out anywhere in the world? End times. House fire? End times. Bad cell phone service? End times. Red light taking too long? End times.
These dipshits are brainwashed and thereâs no getting through to them.
Reygle@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 159d
No argument there. I'm in the north and they're the same here, just less willing to openly share their "views". I think the only real difference between the south and the north is that up here they still (somehow) maintain the slightest amount of shame- at least enough to mostly keep their mouths shut about it.
RotatingParts@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 160d
So God has a plan for the end times but humans can hasten that plan, that means humans can force God to change his plans. That isn't much of a God you have there. May I suggest picking another imaginary super power, or better yet, none at all?
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz · 6 pts · 160d
You're looking for rationality in a bag of insane geese...
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 160d
Well, there's a lot in the pre-Christian parts of the Bible about prophets haggling with God.
flabbergast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 160d
Also: praying for a beneficial outcome.
Which means changing god's plans!
I can't wait for sports matches to turn into praying-matches, whomever prays the best, wins!
Willoughby@piefed.world · 8 pts · 160d
Them: "Woooo, the end times are coming!"
US: "Yep, the end times are coming."
Fully understood end result, completely and totally different reasons why.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 8 pts · 160d
Why do they look so inbred?
Blumpkinhead@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 160d
If they were any more inbred they'd be sandwiches.
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 160d
because they're the product of cousinfuckery
redsand@infosec.pub · 8 pts · 160d
This is your captain speaking, just a friendly reminder trying to make the Apocalypse happen on your schedule will get you a free upgrade to first class on our descent into Hell where the temp is a scorching 69° nice
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 160d
The 69 degrees involves a spitroast. The literal kind.
Flyzeyez@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 159d
Fuck religion
CXORA@aussie.zone · 7 pts · 160d
Well yeah... Christianity is a death cult. Since the very beginning they've been saying that the end times are coming soon. I guess some of them finally realise 2000 years is in no way "soon" and maybe they need to do something about it.
cravl@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 160d
The Bible itself says that no one will know the day or the hour. So yeah, these people are⊠really something.
CXORA@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 160d
The bible also says it'll be within the lifetime of the disciples, so clearly it got some things wrong, or we somehow missed the apocalypse.
cravl@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 156d
Who ever said there aren't still disciples? It's literally the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20; also Mark 16:15-16).
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 160d
The world ended about 2000 years ago, and here we are.
Ioughttamow@fedia.io · 2 pts · 160d
So much for trusting in her plan, eh?
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 160d
I guess that whole religion idea was a bit shortsighted after all. Sort of a bummer.
JayK117@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 160d
The problem is that he's in the position to make it happen, one way or another. There is no future consequences that can be imposed on those bringing about the end of the future itself.
theacharnian@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 160d
The Reformation was a mistake, people.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 7 pts · 160d
Mixing religion and politics is a mistake, people.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 159d
Politics and religion have literally been the same thing for most of human history. Religion itself was the mistake. You might even say that the invention of religion was humanityâs original sin.
TraipsersWill@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 159d
"Religion is the best joke the Devil ever played on God." - J.R. 'Bob' Dobbs
gnate@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 159d
Mixing religion and people was a mistake.
wesdym@mastodon.social · 0 pts · 159d
Soggy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 159d
Allowing religion to continue to fester is a mistake, people.
wesdym@mastodon.social · 0 pts · 159d
@Soggy What's your proposal? We club them? What?
At some point, you have to accept that the world is filled with foolish humans. If you want to change that, pursue the hard work of educating them.
Your use of "allowing" implies that you have some other solution in mind that you should really try to think through.
Soggy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
Letting their ideas go unchallenged is the first problem, just quietly letting the Christian cultural hegemony exist while politely not calling out their bullshit at every opportunity. So I suggest we stop being quiet. Superstition and ancient rituals should not be normalized like they are and so many facets of society exist because of Christianity and people aren't even aware. Things as fundamental as the structure of the week, loads of laws, damn near every federal holiday...
wesdym@mastodon.social · 0 pts · 159d
@Soggy You haven't answered my question. What is your proposed alternative to "allowing religion to continue to fester"? Some kind of police state? Laws against religion? Who will create and enforce such laws, in a democratic society with many religious people? Or do you propose an armed coup? What?
Soggy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 158d
Stop being polite, stop letting their ideas and proposals slide without calling them out for what they are, stop being quiet. It's not about laws it's about changing social norms. Make religious people feel weird and let them know their perspective is not the default. Have the argument at Thanksgiving instead of biting your tongue.
dizzle18@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 160d
Oh good, someone is happy at least.
Shoogle@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 159d
The "end times" have been coming for 2,000 years now. You'd think after the first 500 or so they would have started reevaluating their prophecies... But religion is a helluva drug.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 160d
Hopefully the end times will be coming for them. Everyone gets their own little apocalypse. Just leave us out of it.
Zier@fedia.io · 5 pts · 160d
The 'end times' are coming. The END of letting these incompetent cult members have any control over other people's lives. We will chase you all back into the shadows where you freaks belong.
arcine@jlai.lu · 5 pts · 160d
Fuck yeah hell is eternal đ€đ»đ We will fight in the Skeleton War forever, bathed in everlasting fire ! Who could ever get bored of that much fun !?
rayyy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 159d
Doesn't the persecution of the innocent bring about the rapture?
KulunkelBoom@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 159d
The orange faced demon and his little pumpkin head demon doing the persecuting?
Akh@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 160d
These do not happen for over 5000 years. Still another 300 or so to go till the age of Oriphiel. We got time
SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 160d
End Times already happened, we're in Age of Sigmar now
LoonyLenny@lemdro.id · 3 pts · 160d
The Saints rejoice to see Judgment executed upon the Wicked World.
The Saints behold with courage bold
and thankful wonderment,
To see all those that were their foes
thus sent to punishment.
Then do they sing unto their King
a Song of endless Praise;
They praise his Name and do proclaim
that just are all his ways.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 159d
Marshall Applewhite bullshit.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 159d
But they're always saying that.
KulunkelBoom@lemmus.org · 2 pts · 159d
Knowing there are no gods, no heavens or hells or angels or demons or devils or purgatories... knowing that, and knowing that anything written about gods (dogma) is made up nonense dreamed up in the minds of human monkeys, and knowing the people who profess gods the loudest are raking in money from the people who believe in things that don't exist...
I'm pretty sure all that about "the end of days" is just more religious claptrap.
{sigh} I wish those people, "the believers", didn't have 2nd or 3rd rate brains. It would be so much better for all of us if they could think.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 159d
I mean...many great thinkers in history (Locke, Newton, Rosseau, Voltaire, Smith, PS even Darwin was agnostic, but still theist) did believe in god (maybe it was just a cultural thing, since they could not disprove it), but that did not cloud their judgement of what is true and what is moral...so even they advocated for freedom of religion.
This could also have been because the memory of the european wars of religion (30 years war) was fresh in public memory, like the world wars are in ours.
KulunkelBoom@lemmus.org · 1 pts · 159d
Of course god has been big throughout history. Half the population (or more) of any country at any time in history are ignorant - incapable of reading (and comprehension), writing or simple math (JUST like America right now). "God" loves him some ignorant human monkeys because they do what they're told - usually to give god money or godlike places to live.
Religion and gods are crutches used by people who do not take responsibility for what they do... it's much easier to say "god told me to do this" than it is to intelligently justify murdering people for god, or stealing land for god, or even just being a general asshole "as long as god is okay with it".
The people running the world right now ALL know there is no god - and yet... notice how they profess and use "their god" to shape the minds of the idiots.
Gsus4@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 159d
Yes, it is used an instrument of control by callous leaders and to enforce conformity...I was just saying that even intelligent people can believe in it (like they can in modern conspiracy theories), even if it is just a basic requisite of belonging to your community. Unlike Spinoza and Galileo, who got excommunicated for being too public with their free thinking.
PS: same for Mu'tazilism, it failed because it forced rationalism on people...whereas St. Augustine tried a more conciliatory approach.
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 159d
Now I understand why my Xian Fundy neighbor had a TRUMP kitchen magnet on their car which they removed on election day.
They also like to blast the Gospel of John in their car to avoid to speaking to anyone but their spouse.
Now I get it why they are both self-righteous and voted for Trump: because they are a fucking idiot in my opinion.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 160d
The end times are always just around the corner.
Drusas@fedia.io · 2 pts · 160d
Yet somehow never close enough.
rayyy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 160d
What they seem to be missing is that the beast, and crew, precipitate the rapture and do the persecution while the righteous are the persecuted.
Jaysyn@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
And they'll be wrong this time, like the last 700 in my lifetime.
Fucking death cult for morons.
devolution@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 160d
The rapture is real. They just are going to be the left behind lol. Edit: đ for the bright geniuses.