Your comment made me think of the Zimbardo prison experiment, and how there seem to be some similarities between that experiment and what is happening in US with all this ICE mess.
Not that I disagree with the point generally, but there is a difference of scale here.
There are around 22k ICE agents. At 150k, that's 3.3b for the first year, and then 2.2b in following years.
There are around 4m teachers in the US. To raise them all from 55k to the 100k that ICE agents make (ignoring the hiring bonus) would cost 180b/yr. Two orders of magnitude greater.
I'm not saying it's not worth it. I'm also not saying that ICE agents are good. I'm also not saying this disparity is justified.
I'm simply saying that the analogy, as given, implies that if we had the money to pay ICE agents 100k+bonuses, then we should have just paid the teachers that much instead. But that's not how the math works. And just because the argument feels good emotionally doesn't mean it's accurate. And the truth shouldn't need a lie to drive it forward. There are plenty of good, factual arguments to make, and this isn't one of them.
Note that the CEO's also don't go very far for teacher pay. It looks like a few hundred CEO's cut would raise teachers pay by ~$100/month. Same mistake: 4 million is a big number to divide by.
If we believe the internet, all of that is funneled to the CEOs, and so the previous post applies?
(Which seems absurd to me, but maybe the bills are rare enough that this makes sense? Does anybody have data on how big that figure is vs actual cost of the buildings+labor+materials? We could compare to other countries, but then I think we're seeing a difference in infrastructure, social and physical, more than malfeasance.)
While I'm sure there's a not-insignificant amount of government grants that go towards CEO pay... they're not paid directly by the government. That's an even worse comparison.
This is true, but the scale goes both ways. For every dollar of public education you get $1+X out. This has been true for the vast majority of public education programs for at least the past half century. So public education is literally a good investment. I’ve never gone looking for data on ICE, but I’d bet good money that for every dollar in there’s a net loss.
They increased payroll by 120% in the last year alone. This does not include private contracts for construction and maintenance of new detainment facilities, coming out of the $45B earmarked by Congress last year.
There are around 4m teachers in the US. To raise them all from 55k to the 100k that ICE agents make (ignoring the hiring bonus) would cost 180b/yr.
$45B -> $180B is not two orders of magnitude.
if we had the money to pay ICE agents 100k+bonuses, then we should have just paid the teachers that much instead
Pete Hegseth is currently asking Congress for an extra $200B in Pentagon spending, after increasing their budget $71B this year already.
We clearly don't have a problem with finding more money.
We should use symmetric data where we can. We also have lots earmarked and moved around for education, it's just a much bigger project. The cost comparison for signing bonus of ICE vs educators was apples to apples, and what was literally suggested in OP. Make another post with the honest comparison if you want that to be the standard. Feeds can be both informative and honest if we make them that way.
(Also, only a few thousand jobs are offered the signing bonus. It's a last mile carrot to get people talking, which we seem to be gullible enough to upvote and spread. I'm not enjoying being an ICE recruiter.)
Also, unless I'm mistaken, teachers aren't paid from the federal budget. I believe that the vast majority of public school funding, including teacher salaries, come from local taxes. In fact, I believe school funding is paid mostly from local property taxes. There isn't one, national public school system that's centrally funded. It's decentralized and can vary significantly from one district to another.
Yeah, this is like the '1 billion is enough for to give everyone a million' - an unfortunate bit of innumeracy. Directions good, but this is still misleading at best.
This is pretty much the same answer I give when people overrract about CEO pay. Sure they are overpaid dicks but their paycheck will often not amount to much when divided among all the employees.
The money is always there. I spent a decade at a job where they constantly told us there was no money for pay raises, constant pressure on employees to cut or manage costs, shitty schedules, etc.
Then there was a hiring boom. They were throwing money at recruits like crazy. Better pay. Huge signing bonuses that were more than I made in an entire year.
The money is always there. It’s for the shareholders. Not you.
I have a friend in Kentucky. Lovely lady. We've known each other about twenty years now. Long time ago she was a waitress earning decent money but wanted to be a teacher. It was going to be a financial hit (the fuck?) but I encouraged her to follow her dream.
Long story short she lasted two years before being crushed by the machine and quitting.
Yeah, I was a year or so into a job that paid close to 2x when I got my degree and couldn't justify it. It wasn't a great or high paying job either.
I really looked into it though and there are a lot of systemic problems with public schools. I didn't think I'd have the stomach for it. Plus you need another six figure degree to pay for with less money.
Now to clarify, where I live this is because of race. The government has absolutely failed the African American population. The drug war and public schools were all that was really required.
When they integrated the schools, they just abandoned the South and let local and state government handle it. This is the Jim Crow government that requires the national guard to integrate schools.
Now you've got a separate but far superior education. That's kinda been in place for a couple of generations.
Oh! So, basically, digital Leprechaun gold that you must pay for before it disappears and eats a lot of energy on its way out? Shut up and take my money!
Not at all. But that "$45,000 sign on bonus?" That was only for experienced, returning agents and only for a limited time (now passed). They didn't say that anywhere in the advertisements. That proves they're willing to lie to further their own ends, and nobody's able to hold them accountable when they do.
The fact that the salary comes out of the taxpayers' pockets also means it's contingent on politics, and the democrats are likely to win in the midterms, and they're starting to indicate that they may actually respond to public pressure and start pushing back.
You only have to look at all the homeless veterans and people killing themselves in VA waiting rooms to see how the empire "rewards" those who serve it. The McDonald's employee who snitched on Luigi never got the reward they'd promised either.
Sign up, be so hated by the public that you have to hide your face, drag innocent people away to secret torture dungeons, get scammed out of your bonus, and yeah maybe you can get your 30 pieces of silver. But at that point, why not just sell crack? More trustworthy employers and less harmful to society.
Fear is definitely a reason they love to drive 3-ton trucks to rugged wild places like the office and McDonald's. I have heard my fair share of rednecks call ANY small or normal sized car a "death trap" or "tin can," or comment something like "I'd hate to have somebody crash into me in that thing!"
"Winning" in a crash is a big unspoken feature that drives vehicle choice for a lot of paranoid/scared iamverybadass turds. Around me it's a pretty varied mix of trucks, truck-based SUV barges, and luxury SUVs.
I just finished The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow, which I thought was an incredible read. I would recommend anarchists and communists (and really everyone) read it for a pre-historic and historic view of social organization and freedom. What I thought was one of the more interesting concepts they developed was that in pre-contact North America, individuals had three essential freedoms that we have either lost or had greatly diminished: the right of movement, the right to refuse orders, and the right to create new social realities. (I’m slightly paraphrasing their exact language here, already returned the book to the library) They also go pretty deeply into the impact Indigenous North American societies had on European Enlightenment thought. If any of that interests you, I highly recommend it.
I also just finished The Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer, which is much shorter but a very lovely examination of gift economies and viewing nature as a gift economy. Solarpunk people, this is probably up your alley.
In developed countries teachers unionize. They have fair wages, ample benefits, lots of vacation. Their job is still very hard but they somehow feel more valued.
It's always been that way. No money to pay for teachers, no money to pay for universal healthcare, no money to pay for public infrastructure projects...
But will happily burn 100s billions a year on the military and enforcement agencies.
The money is in keeping you down, not helping anyone up.
I learned today that Texas pays a little over $6000 per student to each school. With 30 students in each class, that is $180,000 per classroom. You would think half of that intake would be paid to the instructor. Ziprecruiter says the average wage for teacher pay is around $50k in Austin TX.
I seem to recall hearing they weren't even getting those bonuses, so I had a little poke around on the internet.
It seems that the $50k sign on bonus only goes to retuning agents that were retired, and paid in $10k chunks, most of which went to taxes.
Despite the government's attempts to keep the exact details of the offer secret (for instance, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, another DHS agency, placed an asterisk on the $50,000 bonus without seemingly clarifying what its terms are), reports suggest that only retired employees returning to the job are eligible for the bonus and that it comes in $10,000 chunks.
Yeah. The whole statement isn't as accurate as they make it sound. Those bonuses aren't going out to hardly anyone. And only a few would even qualify for that salary.
Even the basic salary is reported as not being paid as expected.
I agree with the overall idea behind this post. More money for teachers less money for the gestapo.
But let's not misuse stats to try and make a point.
Well, it's also kind of shitty teacher pay is based on taxpayer contribution! I get it, publicly funded locally vs federally for ICE, also idk how bad ICE pay was before Trump.
Not to mention the unmentioned difference between number of teachers and number of ICE goons making that salary.
I’m all for teachers making more money. I think pay should be based on need and workload. Teachers rank high in both.
But the argument above is not great argument. It uses something I hate, something I agree with, and makes a false equivalency argument out of both. As inclined as I am to agree, the argument could be a lot better
Federal salary employee that teaches young people to be intelligent members of a future society they'll grow up to create:
Peasant pay, overloaded classrooms, stripped authority over class disruptors. 😭🍎📚
Federal salary employee that yanks families apart and throws kids in the back of vans to get shipped to concentration camps, and sometimes just shoots people because they were having a bad day and didn't feel the customer service spirit:
SIX DIGITS AND A SIGNING BONUS BAYBEEEE💰💰💵🤑 (AIR_HORN.WAV x 5)
Our taxes fund both and they choose how to spend it.
It shows where the government's priorities are, and it's quite telling how they feel about We the People and our children.
We the people are endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights, among these: Being left TF alone.
But they really can't seem to handle just letting people be, can they? They've always gotta be manipulating and incarcerating and exploiting and killing others to feel like they're worth anything.
What are you trying to say? Public school teacher's salaries are funded federally. Also, the cost of the Iran War alone could help pay teachers more. Instead trump's goon squad is cutting education and making it more christian.
The truth is that it depends on whether the teacher is working for a private or a public school. If he or she belongs to a public school, the money he receives comes from the government, related and concerned government agencies, and the taxes of the people of the United States. Same goes for all the maintenance crew, cafeteria servants, guards, and all the staff of the school. On the other hand, teachers who work for a private school get their salary from the school itself. The money being paid to them comes from the students
Your source doesn't state that the money comes from the federal government. It says broadly that it comes from the people of the United States, this is true, typically school taxes are levied by the local government and disbursed to the the school to make payroll.
According to the National Center for Education Statistics, the federal government provides less than 10% of total funding for public K-12 education. The source you provided uses 'government' as a catch-all term, but in practice, school boards and local property taxes are what determine and pay teacher salaries. Unless a teacher is working in a high-poverty school receiving Title I federal grants, their paycheck is almost entirely funded by the specific taxpayers in their city and state, not the federal treasury.
Public schools receive funding from three different
government sources: local, state, and federal. Local and
state governments contribute the majority of funding
to support public school systems, while the federal
government provides a small fraction (only about 8% on
average). Even with recent infusions of federal funding
related to the COVID-19 pandemic, the federal share
remains the smallest.
My local taxes say y'all got shit tons of money. The schools just do an absolute shit job blowing it on other things besides walls and salaries for the teachers.
My state allows you to unenroll your student and take the money towards you home schooling, or charter schools, or other education which is a whole quagmire I'm not gonna get into
But it's fucking mind blowing
They get $10,000/student/year and they're cramming 32 students into a classroom.
$320,000 and the teacher makes $45,000 of it
Where the fuck is the rest of it going?
We're getting subpar education - 39% below grade level in reading. 36% in maths. But I would be the bad guy if I choose to take this and "continue the cycle of destroying public education".
I have no idea how that works, especially in the US but I imagine there are some big ugly corporations that somehow got licensing costs in there. Like licensed learning materials or methods and stuff like that.
All the bullshit deals with corpos that sell textbooks and videos and online learning programs and tablets. Don't forget the portal subscription to crap like ClassDojo.
The wealthy aristocracy that controls both parties needs a paramilitary police force in the streets to quell the inevitable uprisings that will occur once enough Americans realize that the aristocracy has dispensed with economic populism and constitutional order
They don't want use to be prosperous, they wants us to be compliant and accepting of the station they will give to us. To unquestioningly toil in dangerous environments similar to cyberpunk themes. Until we break this two party system and their billionaire hold on us we'll never advance as a race.
Wtf? A teacher wrote this about education and then uses the actual wrong fucking word like an absolute moron? Populous? Are you actually kidding me? Is this a joke? That's an adjective. They clearly meant to say "populace", which is the noun to use there. Looks like maybe they're right about education having been defunded whenever the fuck they were supposed to get their own education.
Unless the author of the post is tempted to quit her job as a teacher in order to become an ICE agent, her experience is actually evidence that teachers are being paid enough.
Some peoples priorities encompass more than money.
That doesn't mean money wouldn't make their life better or their job easier. You could also hire more teachers at the same salary. Student/teacher ratios are also part of the problem.
I don’t know if you’ve been asleep for the past 20 years, but in a lot of places, public school teachers are quitting. And they’re being replaced with unqualified people who are pretty much babysitters instead of instructors.
The point is, capitalism makes workplaces pay their workers just enough so they don't leave. This is basic supply and demand, as always. No one cares for the people or the future for that matter.
Hiring people for a people-torturing machine is harder, because some people still have moral compass, and also care for their own safety. ICE jobs, while not requiring such an extensive education, are morally wrong, brutal, and dangerous, which all reduce worker supply and raise the pay.
Besides, keeping schools understaffed does not immediately affect the economy in a big way, so they may keep it as the next generation's problem. Keeping ICE understaffed is, in the eyes of the government, an immediate threat. You don't want to keep an organized group of guys with guns unhappy, and you need to project the dedication in your (inhumane) ways to gain legitimacy to keep being elected (until you completely dismantle democracy).
And when the government needs something - it will get it, screwing everyone else.
116 Comments
owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca · 150 pts · 109d
Not true. People would be living in less fear, and the world would be a far better place.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 109d
I've heard ICE described as a militia of the unemployed mobilized to declare war on the working class
TwoTiredMice@feddit.dk · 3 pts · 108d
Your comment made me think of the Zimbardo prison experiment, and how there seem to be some similarities between that experiment and what is happening in US with all this ICE mess.
testfactor@lemmy.world · 85 pts · 109d
Not that I disagree with the point generally, but there is a difference of scale here.
There are around 22k ICE agents. At 150k, that's 3.3b for the first year, and then 2.2b in following years.
There are around 4m teachers in the US. To raise them all from 55k to the 100k that ICE agents make (ignoring the hiring bonus) would cost 180b/yr. Two orders of magnitude greater.
I'm not saying it's not worth it. I'm also not saying that ICE agents are good. I'm also not saying this disparity is justified.
I'm simply saying that the analogy, as given, implies that if we had the money to pay ICE agents 100k+bonuses, then we should have just paid the teachers that much instead. But that's not how the math works. And just because the argument feels good emotionally doesn't mean it's accurate. And the truth shouldn't need a lie to drive it forward. There are plenty of good, factual arguments to make, and this isn't one of them.
teegus@sh.itjust.works · 74 pts · 109d
To be fair, there are plenty other jobs thst could be cut, like CEO of Amazon
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today · 32 pts · 109d
Every corporate CEO should be cut... with a guillotine
sepi@piefed.social · 18 pts · 109d
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 109d
You are a visionary @Pat_Riot@lemmy.today
Artisian@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 109d
Note that the CEO's also don't go very far for teacher pay. It looks like a few hundred CEO's cut would raise teachers pay by ~$100/month. Same mistake: 4 million is a big number to divide by.
tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 109d
How about all the money made by health insurance companies that shouldn't exist? That'd go a long way toward funding education.
Artisian@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 109d
If we believe the internet, all of that is funneled to the CEOs, and so the previous post applies?
(Which seems absurd to me, but maybe the bills are rare enough that this makes sense? Does anybody have data on how big that figure is vs actual cost of the buildings+labor+materials? We could compare to other countries, but then I think we're seeing a difference in infrastructure, social and physical, more than malfeasance.)
Zorque@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 109d
While I'm sure there's a not-insignificant amount of government grants that go towards CEO pay... they're not paid directly by the government. That's an even worse comparison.
SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 109d
A failure to tax them is one remove away from direct payment.
artifex@piefed.social · 43 pts · 109d
This is true, but the scale goes both ways. For every dollar of public education you get $1+X out. This has been true for the vast majority of public education programs for at least the past half century. So public education is literally a good investment. I’ve never gone looking for data on ICE, but I’d bet good money that for every dollar in there’s a net loss.
Vegan_Joe@piefed.world · 23 pts · 109d
In order for that argument to be valid, the country would have to be run as if it could see beyond the next financial quarter.
It is currently being run as if they are selling off parts of a stolen vehicle for scrap money, and maxing out all the cards they found inside.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 109d
They increased payroll by 120% in the last year alone. This does not include private contracts for construction and maintenance of new detainment facilities, coming out of the $45B earmarked by Congress last year.
$45B -> $180B is not two orders of magnitude.
Pete Hegseth is currently asking Congress for an extra $200B in Pentagon spending, after increasing their budget $71B this year already.
We clearly don't have a problem with finding more money.
Artisian@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 109d
We should use symmetric data where we can. We also have lots earmarked and moved around for education, it's just a much bigger project. The cost comparison for signing bonus of ICE vs educators was apples to apples, and what was literally suggested in OP. Make another post with the honest comparison if you want that to be the standard. Feeds can be both informative and honest if we make them that way.
(Also, only a few thousand jobs are offered the signing bonus. It's a last mile carrot to get people talking, which we seem to be gullible enough to upvote and spread. I'm not enjoying being an ICE recruiter.)
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 109d
It's far more than just signing bonuses in the equation
TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 109d
Also, unless I'm mistaken, teachers aren't paid from the federal budget. I believe that the vast majority of public school funding, including teacher salaries, come from local taxes. In fact, I believe school funding is paid mostly from local property taxes. There isn't one, national public school system that's centrally funded. It's decentralized and can vary significantly from one district to another.
imsufferableninja@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 109d
Why let facts get in the way though
Artisian@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 109d
Yeah, this is like the '1 billion is enough for to give everyone a million' - an unfortunate bit of innumeracy. Directions good, but this is still misleading at best.
barzaria@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 108d
Thank you for the lucid feedback. Putting the numbers into proper framing is a good thing. Fuck ICE, the gestapo of this terrible president.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 109d
This is pretty much the same answer I give when people overrract about CEO pay. Sure they are overpaid dicks but their paycheck will often not amount to much when divided among all the employees.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 65 pts · 109d
The money is always there. I spent a decade at a job where they constantly told us there was no money for pay raises, constant pressure on employees to cut or manage costs, shitty schedules, etc.
Then there was a hiring boom. They were throwing money at recruits like crazy. Better pay. Huge signing bonuses that were more than I made in an entire year.
The money is always there. It’s for the shareholders. Not you.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 57 pts · 109d
This, and also teachers disproportionately consider their job too important to do to quit completely when mistreated.
Which the dystopian profit machine takes advantage of to mistreat the shit out of some of the most important and laudable people in the world.
khannie@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 109d
I have a friend in Kentucky. Lovely lady. We've known each other about twenty years now. Long time ago she was a waitress earning decent money but wanted to be a teacher. It was going to be a financial hit (the fuck?) but I encouraged her to follow her dream.
Long story short she lasted two years before being crushed by the machine and quitting.
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 109d
Yeah, I was a year or so into a job that paid close to 2x when I got my degree and couldn't justify it. It wasn't a great or high paying job either.
I really looked into it though and there are a lot of systemic problems with public schools. I didn't think I'd have the stomach for it. Plus you need another six figure degree to pay for with less money.
Now to clarify, where I live this is because of race. The government has absolutely failed the African American population. The drug war and public schools were all that was really required.
When they integrated the schools, they just abandoned the South and let local and state government handle it. This is the Jim Crow government that requires the national guard to integrate schools.
Now you've got a separate but far superior education. That's kinda been in place for a couple of generations.
Objection@lemmy.ml · 53 pts · 109d
If anybody's tempted by those numbers, remember Trump's track record of not paying people.
JennaR8r@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 30 pts · 109d
It's true. The ice employees have not been getting paid. And the bonus is a joke with so many impossible strings attached.
IratePirate@feddit.org · 1 pts · 108d
"Did we say 'payable in USD'? Sorry, that was a typo. We meant 'leprechaun gold'."
Kage520@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 108d
Close! We actually meant TrumpUSD, an up and coming crypto coin that is expected to go up in value forever!
IratePirate@feddit.org · 1 pts · 108d
Oh! So, basically, digital Leprechaun gold that you must pay for before it disappears and eats a lot of energy on its way out? Shut up and take my money!
couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 109d
Are you under the impression he's paying them out of his own pocket
noodles@slrpnk.net · 14 pts · 109d
Plenty of government people didn't get the pardons/promotions/etc they were promised under Trump
Objection@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 109d
Not at all. But that "$45,000 sign on bonus?" That was only for experienced, returning agents and only for a limited time (now passed). They didn't say that anywhere in the advertisements. That proves they're willing to lie to further their own ends, and nobody's able to hold them accountable when they do.
The fact that the salary comes out of the taxpayers' pockets also means it's contingent on politics, and the democrats are likely to win in the midterms, and they're starting to indicate that they may actually respond to public pressure and start pushing back.
You only have to look at all the homeless veterans and people killing themselves in VA waiting rooms to see how the empire "rewards" those who serve it. The McDonald's employee who snitched on Luigi never got the reward they'd promised either.
Sign up, be so hated by the public that you have to hide your face, drag innocent people away to secret torture dungeons, get scammed out of your bonus, and yeah maybe you can get your 30 pieces of silver. But at that point, why not just sell crack? More trustworthy employers and less harmful to society.
voidsignal@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 109d
they are terrified of everything. there's nothing more affraid in life than a racist right wing fascist turd.
Zink@programming.dev · 15 pts · 109d
Fear is definitely a reason they love to drive 3-ton trucks to rugged wild places like the office and McDonald's. I have heard my fair share of rednecks call ANY small or normal sized car a "death trap" or "tin can," or comment something like "I'd hate to have somebody crash into me in that thing!"
"Winning" in a crash is a big unspoken feature that drives vehicle choice for a lot of paranoid/scared iamverybadass turds. Around me it's a pretty varied mix of trucks, truck-based SUV barges, and luxury SUVs.
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 25 pts · 109d
What have y’all been reading lately?
I just finished The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow, which I thought was an incredible read. I would recommend anarchists and communists (and really everyone) read it for a pre-historic and historic view of social organization and freedom. What I thought was one of the more interesting concepts they developed was that in pre-contact North America, individuals had three essential freedoms that we have either lost or had greatly diminished: the right of movement, the right to refuse orders, and the right to create new social realities. (I’m slightly paraphrasing their exact language here, already returned the book to the library) They also go pretty deeply into the impact Indigenous North American societies had on European Enlightenment thought. If any of that interests you, I highly recommend it.
I also just finished The Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer, which is much shorter but a very lovely examination of gift economies and viewing nature as a gift economy. Solarpunk people, this is probably up your alley.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 108d
Hell yeah I also recently finished the Dawn of Everything and it really blew my mind. Highly seconding it.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 109d
Graeber is fantastic. Loved "Debt: the First 5000 years"
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 109d
I was really bummed to find out he died of complications related to COVID in 2020!
VeryInterestingTable@jlai.lu · 19 pts · 109d
In developed countries teachers unionize. They have fair wages, ample benefits, lots of vacation. Their job is still very hard but they somehow feel more valued.
imsufferableninja@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 109d
Are you not aware of the teachers union in the US?
reddig33@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 109d
Teachers unionize, but they can’t strike in all states. In states like Texas, it’s illegal. No collective bargaining power.
https://www.tcta.org/legal-updates/what-happens-if-texas-teachers-strike
hark@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 109d
How is that not a violation of the first amendment?
VeryInterestingTable@jlai.lu · 7 pts · 109d
No I wasn't, I'm not from the USA.
You are correct, it's not even just one there are several apparently. AFT, UFT, NEA... Honestly I'm confused.
I'm glad the USA does have unions. But there seems to be some roadblocks when I read that some teachers are getting underpaid.
0x0@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 108d
This is the US.
Th4tGuyII@fedia.io · 17 pts · 109d
It's always been that way. No money to pay for teachers, no money to pay for universal healthcare, no money to pay for public infrastructure projects...
But will happily burn 100s billions a year on the military and enforcement agencies.
The money is in keeping you down, not helping anyone up.
Vegan_Joe@piefed.world · 11 pts · 109d
That may be true to an extent, but pay has stagnated more and more each year.
Adjusted for inflation, a teacher's salary in 1969 was well over $77,000. Today is at $60,000, with purchasing power being substantially lower.
reddig33@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 109d
I learned today that Texas pays a little over $6000 per student to each school. With 30 students in each class, that is $180,000 per classroom. You would think half of that intake would be paid to the instructor. Ziprecruiter says the average wage for teacher pay is around $50k in Austin TX.
olenkoVD@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 109d
This holds true for almost any "modern" and "civilized" country, not just for the United States.
0x0@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 108d
They just tend to dial it up to 11.
Ozymati@lemmy.nz · 14 pts · 109d
Join ice. Take the money. Be incompetent. Profit
Rooster326@programming.dev · 23 pts · 109d
, Pray they don't come for you when the curtain falls.
shneancy@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 109d
i'd rather not risk being sent somewhere and having the guy next to me shoot and kill innocent people. that kind of shit would scar me for life
BillyClark@piefed.social · 13 pts · 109d
Not true. If you get rid of jobs that are actively making the world worse, things will almost certainly get better, at least in the short term.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 13 pts · 109d
Kinda hard when the education system fails to teach you how to read.
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 109d
You could sign up and gum up the fucking works from the inside.
Almacca@aussie.zone · 11 pts · 109d
I seem to recall hearing they weren't even getting those bonuses, so I had a little poke around on the internet.
It seems that the $50k sign on bonus only goes to retuning agents that were retired, and paid in $10k chunks, most of which went to taxes.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/unpacking-rumor-ice-agents-arent-152800052.html?guccounter=1
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 109d
Should've called it a gratuity instead of a signing bonus. Then it wouldn't have any taxes.
Almacca@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 109d
Yeah, that's not how the Trump admin does things.
CascadianGiraffe@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 108d
Yeah. The whole statement isn't as accurate as they make it sound. Those bonuses aren't going out to hardly anyone. And only a few would even qualify for that salary.
Even the basic salary is reported as not being paid as expected.
I agree with the overall idea behind this post. More money for teachers less money for the gestapo.
But let's not misuse stats to try and make a point.
themaninblack@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 109d
I completely agree with the message but had to snicker at “populous”.
JennaR8r@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 109d
Oopsie. Teacher needs to remember that populous & populace are two very different words 🤭
elucubra@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 109d
That I had to scroll this far down to see this is rather telling of the state of education.
FeatherConstrictor@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 109d
Why?
elucubra@sopuli.xyz · -1 pts · 109d
Please look up populous and populace.
FeatherConstrictor@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 106d
Ooooh I see! I'm usually pretty good with these tricky homonyms but I didn't know about this one. Learn something new every day.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 109d
power always seems to instill a firm belief in one's own immortality.
Triumph@fedia.io · 7 pts · 109d
I mean, I need a job, and I'd love to be a mole while I'm at it.
SirMaple__@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 109d
unitedwithme@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 109d
Well, it's also kind of shitty teacher pay is based on taxpayer contribution! I get it, publicly funded locally vs federally for ICE, also idk how bad ICE pay was before Trump.
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 108d
Not to mention the unmentioned difference between number of teachers and number of ICE goons making that salary.
I’m all for teachers making more money. I think pay should be based on need and workload. Teachers rank high in both.
But the argument above is not great argument. It uses something I hate, something I agree with, and makes a false equivalency argument out of both. As inclined as I am to agree, the argument could be a lot better
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 108d
Idk I kinda get it:
Federal salary employee that teaches young people to be intelligent members of a future society they'll grow up to create:
Peasant pay, overloaded classrooms, stripped authority over class disruptors. 😭🍎📚
Federal salary employee that yanks families apart and throws kids in the back of vans to get shipped to concentration camps, and sometimes just shoots people because they were having a bad day and didn't feel the customer service spirit:
SIX DIGITS AND A SIGNING BONUS BAYBEEEE💰💰💵🤑 (AIR_HORN.WAV x 5)
Our taxes fund both and they choose how to spend it.
It shows where the government's priorities are, and it's quite telling how they feel about We the People and our children.
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 108d
I shouldn’t have to fucking care what they think about me and my children. God fucking damn it.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 107d
Absolutely.
We the people are endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights, among these: Being left TF alone.
But they really can't seem to handle just letting people be, can they? They've always gotta be manipulating and incarcerating and exploiting and killing others to feel like they're worth anything.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 108d
What are you trying to say? Public school teacher's salaries are funded federally. Also, the cost of the Iran War alone could help pay teachers more. Instead trump's goon squad is cutting education and making it more christian.
https://www.teach-nology.com/teachers/funding/
unitedwithme@lemmy.today · -1 pts · 108d
No usually teacher's salaries are from local city taxes whereas ICE is federal.
neuroneiro@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 108d
You might-be thinking of Basic-Aid schools which are typically, at least in CA, in wealthy zip codes.
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 108d
Did you see that I sourced it, lol?
hamid@crazypeople.online · 4 pts · 108d
Your source doesn't state that the money comes from the federal government. It says broadly that it comes from the people of the United States, this is true, typically school taxes are levied by the local government and disbursed to the the school to make payroll.
According to the National Center for Education Statistics, the federal government provides less than 10% of total funding for public K-12 education. The source you provided uses 'government' as a catch-all term, but in practice, school boards and local property taxes are what determine and pay teacher salaries. Unless a teacher is working in a high-poverty school receiving Title I federal grants, their paycheck is almost entirely funded by the specific taxpayers in their city and state, not the federal treasury.
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/u-s-department-of-education-101-federal-funding-in-k-12-education/
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 108d
You're right
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED656592.pdf
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 108d
Three different sources of funding and teachers are still having to buy their own class supplies with already meager incomes.
What a freaking disgrace.
rafoix@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 109d
We truly don’t have what they’re offering ICE agents after looking at the way the federal deficit has grown under Trump.
Just remember that those ICE agents are a bunch of obese, untrained, unprofessional federal agents that continually break laws.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 109d
My local taxes say y'all got shit tons of money. The schools just do an absolute shit job blowing it on other things besides walls and salaries for the teachers.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 7 pts · 109d
My state allows you to unenroll your student and take the money towards you home schooling, or charter schools, or other education which is a whole quagmire I'm not gonna get into
But it's fucking mind blowing
They get $10,000/student/year and they're cramming 32 students into a classroom.
$320,000 and the teacher makes $45,000 of it
Where the fuck is the rest of it going?
We're getting subpar education - 39% below grade level in reading. 36% in maths. But I would be the bad guy if I choose to take this and "continue the cycle of destroying public education".
affenlehrer@feddit.org · 4 pts · 109d
I have no idea how that works, especially in the US but I imagine there are some big ugly corporations that somehow got licensing costs in there. Like licensed learning materials or methods and stuff like that.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 109d
All the bullshit deals with corpos that sell textbooks and videos and online learning programs and tablets. Don't forget the portal subscription to crap like ClassDojo.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 1 pts · 109d
We're in the "poor" school district. Nobody has a tablet. Textbooks are older than the original sin.
And everyday for at least an hour they jumble multiple grades in the auditorium and have them watch "Whatever is on PBS" today.
Is that where it's going? Do they just forward it along to the nice schools?
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 108d
You're probably in a population to needing a school area that doesn't play very nice for funding of any sort. That or school board is stealing money
Artisian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 109d
Downvote for advertising ICE?
Gates9@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 108d
The wealthy aristocracy that controls both parties needs a paramilitary police force in the streets to quell the inevitable uprisings that will occur once enough Americans realize that the aristocracy has dispensed with economic populism and constitutional order
wowwoweowza@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 109d
JOIN THEM — please work to take them down from the inside, Mr. Snowden.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 109d
that's how people disappear in the desert.
no thanks.
wowwoweowza@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 109d
Well… you gotta be stealthy and subtle about it. Just use the N word a lot. You’ll be fine.
Dr_Del_Fuego@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 109d
Only if you're not the one taking them to the desert
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 108d
They don't want use to be prosperous, they wants us to be compliant and accepting of the station they will give to us. To unquestioningly toil in dangerous environments similar to cyberpunk themes. Until we break this two party system and their billionaire hold on us we'll never advance as a race.
Dr_Del_Fuego@slrpnk.net · -1 pts · 109d
I don't understand why the smart people and educators just don't give them the horrors they're wanting and expecting.
Kobii@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -6 pts · 109d
Says the person who actually thinks a signing bonus is what you get on starting a job. Then using camalcase to see like an idiot.
augustus@sh.itjust.works · -17 pts · 109d
Wtf? A teacher wrote this about education and then uses the actual wrong fucking word like an absolute moron? Populous? Are you actually kidding me? Is this a joke? That's an adjective. They clearly meant to say "populace", which is the noun to use there. Looks like maybe they're right about education having been defunded whenever the fuck they were supposed to get their own education.
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 108d
That's right! A single typo invalidates the entire point they were trying to make. Great job! :D
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 108d
Either that or it was a typo
Soulg@ani.social · 3 pts · 108d
Autocorrect is a bitch sometimes
Broken_Orange_Juice@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 108d
I'm 70% sure this is a joke getting downvoted because sarcasm is hard, but regardless of whether this is a joke or not this is hilarious
fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 108d
It was a pop quiz. Congrats you passed! Bad news because of your poor attitude you will have to report to the principals office
hateisreality@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 108d
That's why we should pay them more....then attractive candidates are found and the dummies who use they instead of they're, well there done!
Edit: I'm a tertiary dumbass
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 108d
Gym teachers exist.
Hopefully rightwingers aren't literate enough to notice.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works · -34 pts · 109d
Unless the author of the post is tempted to quit her job as a teacher in order to become an ICE agent, her experience is actually evidence that teachers are being paid enough.
Zorque@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 109d
Some peoples priorities encompass more than money.
That doesn't mean money wouldn't make their life better or their job easier. You could also hire more teachers at the same salary. Student/teacher ratios are also part of the problem.
khannie@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 109d
You're talking about someone with a masters that is responsible for the upbringing of the next generation V's a thug.
What an absolutely shit, capitalist boot licking take.
Maybe she just wants the same pay as someone who arrests brown people.
reddig33@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 109d
I don’t know if you’ve been asleep for the past 20 years, but in a lot of places, public school teachers are quitting. And they’re being replaced with unqualified people who are pretty much babysitters instead of instructors.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 109d
Dude, you're on lemmy. Libertarians get shot here.
khannie@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 109d
In fairness, most people / places don't like libertarians.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 109d
Not even libertarians like libertarians
BussyGyatt@feddit.org · 5 pts · 109d
eh, more like spat on from on high
Allero@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 109d
I think the point here was misunderstood.
The point is, capitalism makes workplaces pay their workers just enough so they don't leave. This is basic supply and demand, as always. No one cares for the people or the future for that matter.
Hiring people for a people-torturing machine is harder, because some people still have moral compass, and also care for their own safety. ICE jobs, while not requiring such an extensive education, are morally wrong, brutal, and dangerous, which all reduce worker supply and raise the pay.
Besides, keeping schools understaffed does not immediately affect the economy in a big way, so they may keep it as the next generation's problem. Keeping ICE understaffed is, in the eyes of the government, an immediate threat. You don't want to keep an organized group of guys with guns unhappy, and you need to project the dedication in your (inhumane) ways to gain legitimacy to keep being elected (until you completely dismantle democracy).
And when the government needs something - it will get it, screwing everyone else.