How are all these governments and companies managing to enshitify everything? Yet, when it comes to real problems like world hunger, child poverty, and exploitation, no one even blinks an eye.
It's all about spying now infact by 2027 all vehicles mandated to have facial and body scanners that watch you at all times.
Tech bros are taking over and they are building Bunkers because they know this isn't sustainable and once it hits a certain point people will be out for blood.
The thing nobody is willing to admit is if free food and shelter for everyone becomes a thing, the population would explode. Every system in nature needs a balance. Any organism, animal, living thing, humans included, will increase in population until the limit of resources is hit. We have no natural predators so our population is limited solely by the resources we have access to. Feeding everyone would actually increase the problem of trying to feed everyone.
Because the greed of corporations knows no limit. They sold you the (expensive) hardware, now they want to sell you the (specific, usually compatible but not really, and slightly buggy implementation) software. Can't do that with open specifications.
No, the lock in is not needed for seamless behavior. The lock-in is to secure various revenue opportunities.
For example, if I connect a displayport cable to a displayport connection, poof, display happens. There's no 'tinkering', there's no "trying to match vendors", it just works.
Similarly, here folks sorted out the protocols in use, and none of the 'seamless' users were impacted. VW went out of their way to break them not to ensure a seamless experience, but because they wanted to paywall capability in a reliable way.
One could easily imagine schemes that didn't require the lock-in, but would not assure an enduring revenue opportunity.
Holy crap I miss old times 2013 when nobody was even bothering and all bootloaders was unlocked by default no play integrity just do what u wanna do with ur own device
The apps that didn't work well were not due to lack of lock-in.
The apps didn't work well due to lack of maturity in the platform. This app is not failing because the OS is somehow '2013-like', it is failing because Android app developers are going all-in on lock-in.
This is highly misleading. Hopefully there's a link in the article to the original report on the GrapheneOS forums, where they talk about the app update breaking it on multiple platforms, not just GrapheneOS. It does not appear to be a block.
Yeah, good people had good ideas and created the computer link that allows your catalytic converter to function properly. As with all good things, some shithead ruined it and put Subaru's remote start behind a paid app. Shit people ruining good things, tale as old as time.
Note it is very nice for me to be able to start the air conditioning in my electric car when it's 38C out before I leave my desk.
Other things are mildly convenient, like checking progress of charging, locking/unlocking doors remotely. It happens to be convenient to check problems, but that's only because the in-car system isn't very good, and I would happily take the in-car system being better.
Change it from they block GOS to they spy on you. Get it in front of as many people as possible. If they get huge negative press they’re more likely to change.
My first car was a 1992 honda civic. As time went on and cars cot more modern, i yearned for a more modern car. Infotainment seemed like so much fun, all thr convenient knick knacks and gizmos.
Now, unironocally my dream car is my 1992 honda civic from back in the day
90s Civic or Miata has been my dream forever, I’m with ya.
Two pieces of modern tech, though: security and sound.
90s Civics were notoriously easy to steal, so I’d definitely want something to prevent that.
When I was younger, I’d always dreamed of having a nice sound system in my car, but could never afford to do it. Now that I have a car with a super nice sound system and a sub, I can never go back. No “infotainment” BS tho, just gimme a standard deck. USB support is nice, but an aux jack is all I really need.
In my civic i installed a "killswitch", which was just a hidden switch to turn on the fuel pump. Not really sure how much that would prevent theft in the real world, but i think it was hard enough to find that someone trying to steal the car would rather give up than spending more time on this car. I had a pretty good sound system, which i wouldn't need anymore. Infotainment is super overrated, my dream setup now is just something that mirrors my phone
I had a similar switch on an old truck, and it did prevent it from being stolen once. It appeared to have started and moved far enough to get out of its parking space and was left in the lot with the door open.
So it will work if your vehicle is such a sad decripit POS that it just appears to be broken when they try to start it.
We had an old manual Ford Escort that we had drilled the ignition out of and put a switch in instead. No one figured it out without us telling them (friends family borrowing). Ours wasn't even really hidden, just unexpected... thieves rarely want to spend extra time and effort on unexpecteds.
Samurai's are bananas. I have a modest lift and 30" tires, and it will go anywhere. Its so goofy looking next to a 4x4 truck, its like 1/3 the size of an F150.
Get me a '94 Camry with a nice stereo and I'll be happy.
This is the millennial midlife crisis vehicle. Not the Lamborghini or Ferrari or Porsche or Corvette. Nah. Something that I can leave behind for my descendants.
I had a 1988 Scirocco 16V. I loved that car but it was not reliable. The tacked on AC and accessory belt system was horrific. It ate timing belts and wheel bearings. The best VW was a dead simple model, the Rabbit or Quantum/Fox chassis with maybe AC if you felt adventurous.
Well there's always buying an old beater or a classic and restoring it. But you'd have to go more than 40 years back to find cars that are entirely without digital components.
I'm a convert for the fob systems. Despite having grown up a locksmith, I still lock my keys in my car more than I'm proud to admit. But ever since I got a newish Avalon, it hasn't let me do it once. Plus I got tactile buttons for most all control. Ac is still touch screen type buttons, but everything else I get a reassuring click.
Infotaiment system. It integrates your audio library, your maps, contacts and other apps seamlessly. You get current traffic info, automatic updates and huge app library (for example CoMaps and many apps for public chargers). Integrated infotamiment system were left far behind years ago.
So you can buy a subscription for the soft locked features like remote start. And so they get you to agree to a location tracking EULA. Got a VW this year and the dealership pushed the app really hard, apparently they have to pay VW a fee if they don't hit a quota for sign ups.
I charge my EV using excess solar energy during the day. It's handy to be able to start and stop charging based on solar output. We also use the app to send map locations to the navigation system. Finally, while I'm privacy sensitive and having a GPS tracker exposing my location through an API I don't control is dodgy as hell, being able to confirm the vehicle location remotely has come in handy on occasion.
While some neck beards may prefer to live in the 80s, I enjoy using and benefit from modern technology. I just wish regulators would require companies to use open systems. Tech in general isn't' the problem. Proprietary tech is the problem.
After the first three years, Volkswagen is charging ev customers €150/year to see the charge level on the app, remotely start the air conditioning, schedule charge and so on.
Any tinkerer is thinking "well, if I am paying this extortion just to see the charge level on the app, then I want to exfiltrate my data in home assistant or similar, getting better stats and so on"
So they blocked the API with Google play integrity signatures
Now, instead of spending money on engineering ways to block uncertified devices, they could have simply introduced an official API with rate limits and stuff.
The fact that they noticed all those "unauthorized accesses" it's prove that people just want to pay for a lightweight API access, not a 250mb app that takes 4 minutes to remotely start the air conditioning
After all, we're talking for €150/year for accessing the data of a €1 iot sim card using 0.0001€ of compute time. There should be enough margin for that.
As bad as airing out a hot car is, it takes on a different need when its -20C and you need to thaw the car out before going to work in the morning. Much preferable to do that from inside.
It's a nice quality of life feature, you enter a fresh vehicle instead of scorching hot After being parked for hours in the summer sun. But I would never pay a €150/yr subscription for that, fuck them
I once dared to run Ford's app on a rooted device. They permabanned my account including a hundred dollars worth of included charging over it without so much as a warning.
I said long time ago that EU really needs to focus on opening up the platforms. Force app makers to support de-googled phones. Force car makers to support de-googled phones. You can't become technologically independent if you don't control the platforms.
When XavDub contacted the German car maker, the company responded that GrapheneOS “is not an official Volkswagen offering” and advised them to contact their OS provider instead.
This is the only official word from Volkswagen in the whole article. To me, this reads less as "We are blocking GrapheneOS users" and instead "GrapheneOS is not something we give any official support" which I think is a key distinction.
It's not clear what's different in the update that doesn't work with GrapheneOS, whether it's an API call that doesn't work or if they've implemented the Play Integrity API - but I think this article is a bit sensationalist and everyone's reacted only to the headline.
Also, don't buy "connected" cars. FFS, if your car features rely on an internet service provided by the manufacturer, you are just begging for these sorts of shenanigans.
i want a car with zero touchscreen. Heck, even no reverse camera - older folks have been driving just fine for years with just the side and rear mirrors. 3 pedals.
I get the touchscreen thing, though I really don't mind a touchscreen so long as I have real hard controls for volume and heating/cooling. GPS without touchscreen is painful.
But the backup cameras, absolutely those need to be a thing. They have saved lives. People have arguably never been driving 'just fine', just getting closer to just fine. Backup cameras reduced child death from being backed over by 80%.
Their intent was to block third party app, not GOS specifically. GOS not working is a side effect.
Why blocking third party? As said below: to force the use of privacy invasive apps, and collect more data.
Now they will change course only if they suffer from a sufficient backlash. And that needs to be painful enough to deter other car makers from doing the same.
The title makes it sound intentional. The reality is because they added a security feature that verifies the integrity of the OS. Only to make it work on other OS they have to manually add it, but the number of users is so small that they don't even think about it. This was Google's intention when adding it.
Why does my car needs to verify the integrity of my phone OS? Why does my car cares? It is not like my car is using my phone to make money transfer between banks or managing third party medical information no? Why do you need a safe OS to start the AC on my car?
So? What is the problem? It is not unsafe to start a car. Could you blame VW if the car started because of unsafe software on your phone? Is there really a risk of malicious actors targeting car apps to start random cars?
So you have hackers mass compromising rooted android os around the world hoping for an overlap with Volkswagen users with the app, so that they can hack the app to unlock a car hopefully located near them instead of just opening the first car you find with a suction cup on the glass.
you have hackers mass compromising rooted android os around the world
Not necessary. You only need to compromise one. Any one without some sort of integrity service. And it ain't that hard. Pick one of many with poor security practices.
instead of just opening the first car you find with a suction cup on the glass
Security ultimately often times comes with a tradeoff for user experience or privacy.
How does device integrity checks materially affect the security posture for theft when considering this system? Presumably the security checks for remotely unlocking a car is based around credentials and authN/authZ for the unlock service call?
Enforcing client side security has entered the picture recently, but a lot of it comes from security checklists from people saying did you add this check? Sure adding a device integrity check may stop at least one malicious actor, but is it worth the cost? To most companies, they're going to say they don't understand or care about the impact.
They could just go back to key fobs since those can't run arbitrary code.
Also with the most recent update, the halo collar app no longer has access to Google satellite data IF you operate Graphene OS. I suspect Google is the culprit because the folks at Halo have no idea how to fix this bug
Judging by the error message: the map relies on Google Play Services (which, you can definitely install and run on GOS through the Graphene "App Store"). But installing Google bullshit kinda defeats the whole point of running Graphene. You could also revert to an older version of the app (if you had no issue seeing satellite imagery prior to the update).
Why would they let people in who don't want to share their data? They can't make money out of you. So they try to force an OS on you that has spying enabled by default. And if you don't comply, then fuck you nerd.
I dunno if this is a rhetorical game we play with ourselves in our heads but whether it’s or it isn’t, we know exactly why they are doing it and we have for many years.
Your car has an active cellular connection whether you pay to rent time on it or not and it transmits your location, an ID number, usage habits including driving controls, music preferences, and possibly keywords spoken while in or near the vehicle, to the manufacturer. They relay that data to the government who uses it to learn who you associate with and when and where, and they sell it to your insurance company who monitors you for risky behavior, and they also sell it to advertisers who also profile you to device what the best things to try and sell you will be.
Is there really a ton of overlap between people privacy-conscious enough to install graphene on their phone and people who care so little that their car has an app?
Germans can't write code. Enigma, dieselgate, audi ev's, my cla 2026 needed 2 days to update MBUX. Why do you think they planned this ? You'll be fine after zthe next update.
Founded by Nazis, but abandoned during the war and revived by British army officer Ivan Hirst whom both saw the potential for turning it into a workshop and building new vehicles for the British occupation forces.
After the war it was used by REME (Corps of Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) to repair British army vehicles, and it was used to build new vehicles. It was handed over to West Germany in september 1949.
The company as we know it today therefore effectively has more British roots than Nazi ones.
I hate these companies and I am watching car companies like a hawk. This is stopping me upgrading my car TBH.
I do like some conveniences, but really there are a few work arounds. Get a music player and load it up and plug it into the usb. Store your maps on your head unit. Use Bluetooth for calls.
I have a 2016 car that had an old head unit in. I ripped it out and put an android unit in myself. Works fine and it works for me via usb…there is an app but the usb just works for maps and music. If it starts annoying me, I’ll plug a mp3 player in and the bitch will be reminded it works for me. It’s annoying that the new cars have it inbuilt so you can’t.
145 Comments
Triumph@fedia.io · 217 pts · 61d
Class action for unilaterally modifying the agreement about feature access after the fact and to the detriment of the consumer.
4am@lemmy.zip · 59 pts · 61d
There’s about 1000 companies to sue for this already
ripcord@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 61d
OK...?
sexhaver87@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 60d
Sue ‘em all!
grandma@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 60d
BORN TO SUE
CONSUMER RIGHTS IS A FUCK
鬼神 Sue Em All 1989
I am trash man
410,757,864,530 DEAD CEOS
pimat@feddit.org · 130 pts · 61d
How are all these governments and companies managing to enshitify everything? Yet, when it comes to real problems like world hunger, child poverty, and exploitation, no one even blinks an eye.
snoons@piefed.ca · 66 pts · 61d
No one makes short term profit off of solving world hunger, so it doesn't get solved. 🙈
antbricks@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 61d
They can make safety, fuel efficiency, usability, and comfort improvements AND enshittify things too! These are complicated machines.
TheDeadInternet@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 59d
It's all about spying now infact by 2027 all vehicles mandated to have facial and body scanners that watch you at all times.
Tech bros are taking over and they are building Bunkers because they know this isn't sustainable and once it hits a certain point people will be out for blood.
tonyn@lemmy.ml · -11 pts · 61d
The thing nobody is willing to admit is if free food and shelter for everyone becomes a thing, the population would explode. Every system in nature needs a balance. Any organism, animal, living thing, humans included, will increase in population until the limit of resources is hit. We have no natural predators so our population is limited solely by the resources we have access to. Feeding everyone would actually increase the problem of trying to feed everyone.
impairedimperator@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 61d
Time is a resource, and in the modern world where near-full time parental involvement is assumed, it would effectively limit reproduction.
Matter of fact, it is entirely possible that is a significant part of why birthrates keep declining.
terraquad@feddit.org · 1 pts · 59d
so what gives you the right to get all the food instead of the starving people?
tonyn@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 57d
I make things that people want, they pay me and I use the money to buy the food from people who are selling it.
Eric_Pollock@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 128 pts · 61d
Hopefully this doesn't affect me
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub · 65 pts · 61d
It does, unfortunately, affect you. Your van does not support GrapheneOS.
Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 61d
Awesome!
Meatwagon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 61d
That's a wonderful creature.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 61d
I love it!
badgermurphy@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 61d
mbp@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 61d
Hell yeah, brother
mech@feddit.org · 5 pts · 60d
10/10, Would ride to the 1990 World Cup with.
NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 61d
Nice!
prenatal_confusion@feddit.org · 4 pts · 60d
T3 crew checking in
badgermurphy@lemmy.world · 119 pts · 61d
cley_faye@lemmy.world · 57 pts · 61d
Because the greed of corporations knows no limit. They sold you the (expensive) hardware, now they want to sell you the (specific, usually compatible but not really, and slightly buggy implementation) software. Can't do that with open specifications.
badgermurphy@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 60d
Evotech@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 60d
Because many customers expect a seamless experience with zero tinkering
jj4211@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 60d
No, the lock in is not needed for seamless behavior. The lock-in is to secure various revenue opportunities.
For example, if I connect a displayport cable to a displayport connection, poof, display happens. There's no 'tinkering', there's no "trying to match vendors", it just works.
Similarly, here folks sorted out the protocols in use, and none of the 'seamless' users were impacted. VW went out of their way to break them not to ensure a seamless experience, but because they wanted to paywall capability in a reliable way.
One could easily imagine schemes that didn't require the lock-in, but would not assure an enduring revenue opportunity.
badgermurphy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
WaxRhetorical@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 60d
And you can't have this with open standards..?
Zenlix@lemmy.ml · 87 pts · 61d
Just another shitty company.
anon5621@lemmy.ml · 76 pts · 61d
Holy crap I miss old times 2013 when nobody was even bothering and all bootloaders was unlocked by default no play integrity just do what u wanna do with ur own device
ripcord@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 61d
Well, a lot of apps didn't work very well back then either. As in this case.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
The apps that didn't work well were not due to lack of lock-in.
The apps didn't work well due to lack of maturity in the platform. This app is not failing because the OS is somehow '2013-like', it is failing because Android app developers are going all-in on lock-in.
ripcord@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 60d
In this case it doesn't seem to be related to lockin either.
QuadratureSurfer@piefed.social · 1 pts · 60d
What kind of apps were you using that didn't work very well?
ripcord@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 60d
What? Shitloads.
frongt@lemmy.zip · 77 pts · 61d
This is highly misleading. Hopefully there's a link in the article to the original report on the GrapheneOS forums, where they talk about the app update breaking it on multiple platforms, not just GrapheneOS. It does not appear to be a block.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 74 pts · 61d
It's probably just using googles play integrity, that tends to break apps in pretty much in everything that isn't stock manufacturer android.
artyom@piefed.social · 5 pts · 61d
It is
rumba@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 61d
All in all, it's just another brick in the VibeCoded Wall...
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 60d
when it is only affecting unofficial android systems, and stock roms are unaffected, then it indeed is a block.
AstralPath@lemmy.ca · 72 pts · 61d
Cars didn't need apps in the 1900's and they sure as hell don't need them now.
badgermurphy@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 61d
rumba@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 61d
You don't need a computer to make a car. But you might need most of one to meet fuel economy and safety standards.
Dozzi92@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 60d
Yeah, good people had good ideas and created the computer link that allows your catalytic converter to function properly. As with all good things, some shithead ruined it and put Subaru's remote start behind a paid app. Shit people ruining good things, tale as old as time.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 60d
Note it is very nice for me to be able to start the air conditioning in my electric car when it's 38C out before I leave my desk.
Other things are mildly convenient, like checking progress of charging, locking/unlocking doors remotely. It happens to be convenient to check problems, but that's only because the in-car system isn't very good, and I would happily take the in-car system being better.
anon_8675309@lemmy.world · 67 pts · 61d
Change it from they block GOS to they spy on you. Get it in front of as many people as possible. If they get huge negative press they’re more likely to change.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 61d
They literally murdered millions and were in the press about it. I think they don’t care about headlines anymore.
daggermoon@piefed.world · 58 pts · 61d
Why does a car need an android app?
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 31 pts · 61d
It doesn't need it, it will drive just fine without app connection, but it provides convenient remote access and control capabilities.
daggermoon@piefed.world · 46 pts · 61d
I'd prefer a car that's entirely analog. What a crazy dream.
FatVegan@leminal.space · 20 pts · 61d
My first car was a 1992 honda civic. As time went on and cars cot more modern, i yearned for a more modern car. Infotainment seemed like so much fun, all thr convenient knick knacks and gizmos.
Now, unironocally my dream car is my 1992 honda civic from back in the day
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 61d
90s Civic or Miata has been my dream forever, I’m with ya.
Two pieces of modern tech, though: security and sound.
90s Civics were notoriously easy to steal, so I’d definitely want something to prevent that.
When I was younger, I’d always dreamed of having a nice sound system in my car, but could never afford to do it. Now that I have a car with a super nice sound system and a sub, I can never go back. No “infotainment” BS tho, just gimme a standard deck. USB support is nice, but an aux jack is all I really need.
FatVegan@leminal.space · 5 pts · 61d
In my civic i installed a "killswitch", which was just a hidden switch to turn on the fuel pump. Not really sure how much that would prevent theft in the real world, but i think it was hard enough to find that someone trying to steal the car would rather give up than spending more time on this car. I had a pretty good sound system, which i wouldn't need anymore. Infotainment is super overrated, my dream setup now is just something that mirrors my phone
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 61d
I had a similar switch on an old truck, and it did prevent it from being stolen once. It appeared to have started and moved far enough to get out of its parking space and was left in the lot with the door open.
So it will work if your vehicle is such a sad decripit POS that it just appears to be broken when they try to start it.
Spot@startrek.website · 2 pts · 61d
We had an old manual Ford Escort that we had drilled the ignition out of and put a switch in instead. No one figured it out without us telling them (friends family borrowing). Ours wasn't even really hidden, just unexpected... thieves rarely want to spend extra time and effort on unexpecteds.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 61d
I have a suzuki samurai that was intended to just be a project car.
But now, I think the highest technology item it has is whatever transistor is firing the spark plugs. Its tempting to just daily it.
ouRKaoS@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 61d
I remember seeing guys in samurais off roading down ATV trails and I was always a little jealous.
I'd love to get one to wrench on, but I don't need another project.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
Samurai's are bananas. I have a modest lift and 30" tires, and it will go anywhere. Its so goofy looking next to a 4x4 truck, its like 1/3 the size of an F150.
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 60d
Get me a '94 Camry with a nice stereo and I'll be happy.
This is the millennial midlife crisis vehicle. Not the Lamborghini or Ferrari or Porsche or Corvette. Nah. Something that I can leave behind for my descendants.
vaionko@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 61d
I switched to a 1989 VW Golf a couple weeks back. No regrets
kalpol@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 60d
I had a 1988 Scirocco 16V. I loved that car but it was not reliable. The tacked on AC and accessory belt system was horrific. It ate timing belts and wheel bearings. The best VW was a dead simple model, the Rabbit or Quantum/Fox chassis with maybe AC if you felt adventurous.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 61d
Well there's always buying an old beater or a classic and restoring it. But you'd have to go more than 40 years back to find cars that are entirely without digital components.
filcuk@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 61d
That would not even be legal on today's roads, at least in EU for new vehicles.
17jGuFCOn89iY@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 61d
It’s the one modern feature I wouldn’t want to give up. Cooling my car down before I get in it without having to walk out to it is very nice.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 61d
I'm a convert for the fob systems. Despite having grown up a locksmith, I still lock my keys in my car more than I'm proud to admit. But ever since I got a newish Avalon, it hasn't let me do it once. Plus I got tactile buttons for most all control. Ac is still touch screen type buttons, but everything else I get a reassuring click.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 61d
Why does car need to be an android app?
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 3 pts · 61d
Infotaiment system. It integrates your audio library, your maps, contacts and other apps seamlessly. You get current traffic info, automatic updates and huge app library (for example CoMaps and many apps for public chargers). Integrated infotamiment system were left far behind years ago.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 11 pts · 61d
You get all that through android auto. The manufacturer app is for when you're not in the car.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · -1 pts · 61d
Oh, I thought we're talking about android auto. If this is the specific car app it's a different story, yes.
dwemthy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 61d
So you can buy a subscription for the soft locked features like remote start. And so they get you to agree to a location tracking EULA. Got a VW this year and the dealership pushed the app really hard, apparently they have to pay VW a fee if they don't hit a quota for sign ups.
dltk@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 60d
I charge my EV using excess solar energy during the day. It's handy to be able to start and stop charging based on solar output. We also use the app to send map locations to the navigation system. Finally, while I'm privacy sensitive and having a GPS tracker exposing my location through an API I don't control is dodgy as hell, being able to confirm the vehicle location remotely has come in handy on occasion.
While some neck beards may prefer to live in the 80s, I enjoy using and benefit from modern technology. I just wish regulators would require companies to use open systems. Tech in general isn't' the problem. Proprietary tech is the problem.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 60d
Why they do this:
After the first three years, Volkswagen is charging ev customers €150/year to see the charge level on the app, remotely start the air conditioning, schedule charge and so on.
Any tinkerer is thinking "well, if I am paying this extortion just to see the charge level on the app, then I want to exfiltrate my data in home assistant or similar, getting better stats and so on"
So they blocked the API with Google play integrity signatures
Now, instead of spending money on engineering ways to block uncertified devices, they could have simply introduced an official API with rate limits and stuff.
The fact that they noticed all those "unauthorized accesses" it's prove that people just want to pay for a lightweight API access, not a 250mb app that takes 4 minutes to remotely start the air conditioning
After all, we're talking for €150/year for accessing the data of a €1 iot sim card using 0.0001€ of compute time. There should be enough margin for that.
Evotech@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 60d
Too bad the people in charge and developers of sensible mind are not the same people
ranzispa@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 60d
Sorry if I ask, what does it mean to remotely start air conditioning?
Do you mean you can start it while you are not in the car? What's the purpose of such a feature?
QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
It's for when it's hot outside, you're leaving a store and you want it to be cool when you get to your car.
MissingGhost@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 60d
What's gonna happen to me if I don't use that feature?
Cleisthenian@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 60d
The feds are gonna come and whack you
QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
Nothing at all. You're just going to enter a hot car.
Tobberone@feddit.nu · 1 pts · 60d
As bad as airing out a hot car is, it takes on a different need when its -20C and you need to thaw the car out before going to work in the morning. Much preferable to do that from inside.
hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 60d
On a hot day, cool the car down before you get in. Same for the inverse of wanting to heat the car up before you get in when it's super cold.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
It's a nice quality of life feature, you enter a fresh vehicle instead of scorching hot After being parked for hours in the summer sun. But I would never pay a €150/yr subscription for that, fuck them
newton@feddit.online · 35 pts · 61d
Ty ,for info , next car will be no VW.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
Not alone.
I once dared to run Ford's app on a rooted device. They permabanned my account including a hundred dollars worth of included charging over it without so much as a warning.
Car vendors are absolute dicks about their apps.
newton@feddit.online · 2 pts · 60d
Murica ? Not the right place to live in it now .
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 32 pts · 60d
I said long time ago that EU really needs to focus on opening up the platforms. Force app makers to support de-googled phones. Force car makers to support de-googled phones. You can't become technologically independent if you don't control the platforms.
Mangoholic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 59d
That's the thing tho they don't want that, they want more control not less. That's why countries can make e2e encryption illegal now.
JustARegularNerd@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 61d
This is the only official word from Volkswagen in the whole article. To me, this reads less as "We are blocking GrapheneOS users" and instead "GrapheneOS is not something we give any official support" which I think is a key distinction.
It's not clear what's different in the update that doesn't work with GrapheneOS, whether it's an API call that doesn't work or if they've implemented the Play Integrity API - but I think this article is a bit sensationalist and everyone's reacted only to the headline.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 60d
Ok, don't buy Volkswagen. Got it.
Also, don't buy "connected" cars. FFS, if your car features rely on an internet service provided by the manufacturer, you are just begging for these sorts of shenanigans.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 23 pts · 60d
Hmmm.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 3 pts · 60d
Is there Lemmy r/sipsTea ?
skvlp@lemmy.wtf · 16 pts · 61d
Time to de-Volkswagen, then.
WindyRebel@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 61d
It’s time to un-pimp ze auto?! Oh, snap!
mazzilius_marsti@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 61d
i want a car with zero touchscreen. Heck, even no reverse camera - older folks have been driving just fine for years with just the side and rear mirrors. 3 pedals.
WereCat@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 61d
and no airbag, my granddad crashed 6 times and never needed one
MaggiWuerze@feddit.org · 11 pts · 61d
Also these newfangled seatbelts, they always ruffle my tie
ripcord@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 61d
I've never needed one, therefore they are a waste of money.
I've also never needed anti-cancer drugs, wtf are we doing there
TrollTrollrolllol@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 61d
It helps if you're drunk, keeps you from tensing up during the crash.
matlag@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 61d
Sounds like the upcoming Slate. But it's more of a pick-up platfom. I hope they keep going and extend their product line.
LostCarcosan@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 61d
At least it's supposed to be a smaller truck, about the size of an SUV, if I remember right.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 60d
I get the touchscreen thing, though I really don't mind a touchscreen so long as I have real hard controls for volume and heating/cooling. GPS without touchscreen is painful.
But the backup cameras, absolutely those need to be a thing. They have saved lives. People have arguably never been driving 'just fine', just getting closer to just fine. Backup cameras reduced child death from being backed over by 80%.
drmoose@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 60d
My car is staying dumb as long as possible it seems, I despise these tricks leeching into every new car these days.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 1 pts · 60d
Wonder if we can get that Faraday Cage color as an undercoat paint...
abbadon420@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 61d
But why?
matlag@sh.itjust.works · 22 pts · 61d
Their intent was to block third party app, not GOS specifically. GOS not working is a side effect.
Why blocking third party? As said below: to force the use of privacy invasive apps, and collect more data.
Now they will change course only if they suffer from a sufficient backlash. And that needs to be painful enough to deter other car makers from doing the same.
lokalhorst@feddit.org · 6 pts · 61d
Because they want your data :)
artyom@piefed.social · 5 pts · 61d
The title makes it sound intentional. The reality is because they added a security feature that verifies the integrity of the OS. Only to make it work on other OS they have to manually add it, but the number of users is so small that they don't even think about it. This was Google's intention when adding it.
encelado748@feddit.org · 4 pts · 61d
Why does my car needs to verify the integrity of my phone OS? Why does my car cares? It is not like my car is using my phone to make money transfer between banks or managing third party medical information no? Why do you need a safe OS to start the AC on my car?
artyom@piefed.social · 1 pts · 61d
Because the app on your phone has the ability to unlock, start, open, etc. the vehicle.
encelado748@feddit.org · 1 pts · 61d
So? What is the problem? It is not unsafe to start a car. Could you blame VW if the car started because of unsafe software on your phone? Is there really a risk of malicious actors targeting car apps to start random cars?
artyom@piefed.social · 2 pts · 61d
The problem is theft...?
encelado748@feddit.org · 2 pts · 60d
So you have hackers mass compromising rooted android os around the world hoping for an overlap with Volkswagen users with the app, so that they can hack the app to unlock a car hopefully located near them instead of just opening the first car you find with a suction cup on the glass.
Ok, got it
artyom@piefed.social · 1 pts · 60d
Not necessary. You only need to compromise one. Any one without some sort of integrity service. And it ain't that hard. Pick one of many with poor security practices.
You cannot start a car with a suction cup.
chaospatterns@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 61d
It's a question of security risk profiles.
Security ultimately often times comes with a tradeoff for user experience or privacy.
How does device integrity checks materially affect the security posture for theft when considering this system? Presumably the security checks for remotely unlocking a car is based around credentials and authN/authZ for the unlock service call?
Enforcing client side security has entered the picture recently, but a lot of it comes from security checklists from people saying did you add this check? Sure adding a device integrity check may stop at least one malicious actor, but is it worth the cost? To most companies, they're going to say they don't understand or care about the impact.
They could just go back to key fobs since those can't run arbitrary code.
artyom@piefed.social · 0 pts · 61d
No one cares about privacy.
frunch@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 61d
Because fuck GrapheneOS users, apparently 🤷♂️
Darcranium@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 60d
Also with the most recent update, the halo collar app no longer has access to Google satellite data IF you operate Graphene OS. I suspect Google is the culprit because the folks at Halo have no idea how to fix this bug
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 60d
weird. they are using mapbox which has nothing to do with google. maybe support just didn't want to solve your case.
Darcranium@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 58d
What the heck? So they have some splainin to do
Darcranium@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 56d
I figured Mapbox gets their data from Google maps satellite data
ilillilillilillililli@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 60d
Judging by the error message: the map relies on Google Play Services (which, you can definitely install and run on GOS through the Graphene "App Store"). But installing Google bullshit kinda defeats the whole point of running Graphene. You could also revert to an older version of the app (if you had no issue seeing satellite imagery prior to the update).
Darcranium@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 58d
Thanks for the tip!
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 60d
Volkswagen of all people.
After this fuckup: https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2024/fahrplan/talk/Q8ZAV9/
They should be the last ones to deny anyone else using privacy preserving tools.
(Hint the player has multiple audio tracks, there is a dub in English)
core@leminal.space · 1 pts · 58d
Thw Hitler aligned car company doing terrible things surprises you?
tirateimas@lemmy.pt · 7 pts · 61d
Decisions that nobody understands. What do they have to gain with this?
lokalhorst@feddit.org · 9 pts · 61d
Why would they let people in who don't want to share their data? They can't make money out of you. So they try to force an OS on you that has spying enabled by default. And if you don't comply, then fuck you nerd.
4am@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 61d
I dunno if this is a rhetorical game we play with ourselves in our heads but whether it’s or it isn’t, we know exactly why they are doing it and we have for many years.
Your car has an active cellular connection whether you pay to rent time on it or not and it transmits your location, an ID number, usage habits including driving controls, music preferences, and possibly keywords spoken while in or near the vehicle, to the manufacturer. They relay that data to the government who uses it to learn who you associate with and when and where, and they sell it to your insurance company who monitors you for risky behavior, and they also sell it to advertisers who also profile you to device what the best things to try and sell you will be.
black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 61d
Is there really a ton of overlap between people privacy-conscious enough to install graphene on their phone and people who care so little that their car has an app?
WereCat@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 61d
Basically all new cars have an app, you don’t have a choice if you’re buying new
SmoothLiquidation@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 61d
My 2012 Toyota has an ‘app’ that I maybe tried once over ten years ago but haven’t used since. This is nothing new. It is called “Toyota Entune”
WereCat@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 61d
Well, I have Corolla and I use the app mainly in winter to start the car and unfreeze front and rear windows. It’s quite convenient
mrodri89@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 60d
kalpol@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 60d
Need to being back the old ones. Make 1981 Dasher Diesels Great Again
green_goglin@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 60d
FYI:
SlateScout Motors is a subsidiary of Volkswagen.die444die@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 60d
You sure about that? You're bot confusing Slate with Scout are you?
green_goglin@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 60d
Whoopsies, my mistake.
QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 60d
Well damn, I've just placed a preorder. I'll keep watching to see how it plays out...
OccasionallyFeralya@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 60d
Pretty sure it’s not VW
amniote@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 60d
Germans can't write code. Enigma, dieselgate, audi ev's, my cla 2026 needed 2 days to update MBUX. Why do you think they planned this ? You'll be fine after zthe next update.
Microtonal_Banana@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 61d
Well if you need another reason to avoid the car company started by Nazis here it is.
Aganim@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 61d
Founded by Nazis, but abandoned during the war and revived by British army officer Ivan Hirst whom both saw the potential for turning it into a workshop and building new vehicles for the British occupation forces.
After the war it was used by REME (Corps of Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) to repair British army vehicles, and it was used to build new vehicles. It was handed over to West Germany in september 1949.
The company as we know it today therefore effectively has more British roots than Nazi ones.
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 60d
Traded Nazis for Brit Imperialists.
KingKong33@lemmy.ml · -4 pts · 61d
Some Nazi downvoted you. Fucking Nazis.
melroy@kbin.melroy.org · 2 pts · 61d
Well damn. I still regret buying a vw
Cherry@piefed.social · 1 pts · 61d
I hate these companies and I am watching car companies like a hawk. This is stopping me upgrading my car TBH.
I do like some conveniences, but really there are a few work arounds. Get a music player and load it up and plug it into the usb. Store your maps on your head unit. Use Bluetooth for calls.
I have a 2016 car that had an old head unit in. I ripped it out and put an android unit in myself. Works fine and it works for me via usb…there is an app but the usb just works for maps and music. If it starts annoying me, I’ll plug a mp3 player in and the bitch will be reminded it works for me. It’s annoying that the new cars have it inbuilt so you can’t.
Microtonal_Banana@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 61d