The homeowner's assertion of vampire's abilities gives an implicit permission. If the homeowner says yes he can, who would override that? Belief is a powerful thing
In top of that, nobody defined where the vampire is capable of entering… or permitted to enter. Either way, the location wasn’t explicitly defined so who knows which place we’re talking about. Could I give the vampire the permission to enter your house? Would that still be valid? How does this even work?
It's reasonable to conclude a temporary owner could invite someone in, just like a real one. If a warrant involved temporary possession, then the government that issued it would be able to invite someone in, and then if the vampire were charged with a search, that charge would be an invitation.
Based on wording on example warrants in the US, however, they do not word it as a seizure of the building, even temporary. Makes sense, but at least a US-based vampire with a warrant would need to still be invited in.
This is/was "hotly debated". IMO public schools are like any other public thing and accessible to vamps generally, and Angel was just being sassy when Jenny asked him how he got in.
But along those lines, my initial response was "Depends on who's writing" with the Angel/Jenny school scene in mind. "Enter all who seek knowledge" or whatever.
Overall they were not very consistent when it came to the invitation thing.
Sounds like a bit that could fit into What We Do in the Shadows. They could tell the camera how they enjoy how they are able to freely walk into half of modern residences nowadays whenever they want because idiot humans usually have a welcome mat that technically counts as an invitation.
Wasn’t there a serial killer that said an unlocked door meant he was invited to go inside? That’s why I’ve never used a doormat that has “Welcome” on it. Hopefully that applies to vampires too.
The trick is, it depends. All vampires are bound by obsessive compulsive behaviours, but the particular form that obsessive behaviour takes depends on a number of factors. The most prominent are age and culture of origin.
More recently embraced American vampires tend to become absorbed in the minutiae of the contractual, legalistic formulation of things, so if they have an aversion to entering without permission, it is more based upon an obsession with the sanctity of individualized private property. This leads to the trait of rarely making a direct entry into a home for predatory purposes but rather a focus on convincing the victim it is in their best interest to give willingly their vital fluids and life force. Many victims of such vampires are not even fully aware of what they have had taken.
Older vampires from a more European context take a more hierarchical approach to property. If your home is in their territory, you are their subject and, as such, no permission is needed to enter what is effectively their house, perhaps literally if they are your landlord.
Other contexts, such as that of the Middle East of antiquity, produce vampires who hold sacred the unwritten yet iron clad laws of hospitality. They would never dream of entering unannounced, or taking more than a token sip from one who invites them willingly into their home, but equally would feel no compunction over slaughtering one who turned them away. To these, a welcome mat is an amusement, not an invitation, and only the most desperate leach would stoop to taking a whimsical decoration as written law.
But then again, vampires are an imaginary metaphorical construct for describing the greedy people of a society, so really the answer is no.
This is an interesting interpretation, but even assuming that most vampire s actually are that old, which isn't a given, id think theyd still abide by the modern definition. Language changes, and that's not what it means anymore, especially not in the context of a welcome mat.
Depending on the jurisdiction, soliciting often requires a permit and conditions of the permit include obeying no soliciting signs. Failure to obey typically means the permit can be revoked, or it could be a criminal offense. Could be worth looking into that for your area.
The apartment complex where I live is posted no soliciting. Management heavily encourages people to call the police if solicitors ignore the sign. Even more shocking, the police will actually come and throw solicitors off the property if they're contacted. (This is also the same police department that tracked down and got an arrest warrant for the random stranger who broke into my car the day after it happened)
Not to take this too literally but....
According to pagan and wiccan practices, the welcome mat gives permission to all potentially negative spirits to enter
I used to have one that said "Hi, I'm Mat" because I found it hilarious.
We throw a party for my kid's birthday every year. My wife keeps taping signs to the front door for the party; they always say "come on in, the party's in the back!" I keep telling her that someday a vampire is going to take advantage of that, but she seems unconcerned.
If it's down to the literal words and not the sentiment, there's nothing to stop the vampire from inventing their own language and teaching it to local villagers, where the sound or symbols,"no" mean, "please come in".
53 Comments
arotrios@lemmy.world · 143 pts · 17h
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 7h
Even if she'd said yes, it wouldn't have been permission. She was merely assenting that he was seemingly capable of the act, if nothing else.
kunaltyagi@programming.dev · 8 pts · 5h
The homeowner's assertion of vampire's abilities gives an implicit permission. If the homeowner says yes he can, who would override that? Belief is a powerful thing
TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 2h
In top of that, nobody defined where the vampire is capable of entering… or permitted to enter. Either way, the location wasn’t explicitly defined so who knows which place we’re talking about. Could I give the vampire the permission to enter your house? Would that still be valid? How does this even work?
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world · 86 pts · 17h
Just to be safe, throw out the welcome mat, and replace it with a "Do you have a warrant?" mat.
AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world · 50 pts · 17h
If vampires gets warrants, do they still need to ask permission?
dmir@gehirneimer.de · 27 pts · 17h
Gotta be so careful with what your mat says...
ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 16h
It's fine. The mat was made by Flock. /s
moopet@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 5h
It asks if they have a warrant - it doesn't say whether that is one or the only requirement for entry. It's just a question, right?
dmir@gehirneimer.de · 1 pts · 1h
I'd prefer to leave the ambiguity completely out of the equation here!
Khanzarate@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 15h
Depends how they can interact with local laws.
It's reasonable to conclude a temporary owner could invite someone in, just like a real one. If a warrant involved temporary possession, then the government that issued it would be able to invite someone in, and then if the vampire were charged with a search, that charge would be an invitation.
Based on wording on example warrants in the US, however, they do not word it as a seizure of the building, even temporary. Makes sense, but at least a US-based vampire with a warrant would need to still be invited in.
moopet@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 5h
What is your quest?
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2h
What is your favorite color?
DScratch@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 16h
“Yes! But Nawt for Dis adDress! Your mat did nawt specify de vahlidity of de warrant, bla!”
greatwhitebuffalo41@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 10h
I want one of these now...
orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 45 pts · 15h
This is the quality of Showerthoughts we should strive for.
ApollosArrow@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 5h
We need the community to get back to these.
orbituary@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 7m
I got told to shut up last time I said this. "people can think what they want in the shower."
This com has turned into a "Just post" thing. They spirit is lost. Perhaps we need a "RealShowerThoughts" com.
snooggums@piefed.world · 26 pts · 16h
A welcome door mat means the person is welcome to announce themselves by knocking or ringing a bell, it does not mean they are welcome to enter.
If the mat said 'Come on in' then it would give anyone, including a vampire, permission to enter.
TallonMetroid@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 17h
According to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the answer is yes.
korthrun@piefed.social · 14 pts · 13h
This is/was "hotly debated". IMO public schools are like any other public thing and accessible to vamps generally, and Angel was just being sassy when Jenny asked him how he got in.
But along those lines, my initial response was "Depends on who's writing" with the Angel/Jenny school scene in mind. "Enter all who seek knowledge" or whatever.
Overall they were not very consistent when it came to the invitation thing.
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 15h
That sounds like something a vampire hunter would say
SatyrSack@quokk.au · 24 pts · 15h
Sounds like a bit that could fit into What We Do in the Shadows. They could tell the camera how they enjoy how they are able to freely walk into half of modern residences nowadays whenever they want because idiot humans usually have a welcome mat that technically counts as an invitation.
scytale@piefed.zip · 20 pts · 15h
Wasn’t there a serial killer that said an unlocked door meant he was invited to go inside? That’s why I’ve never used a doormat that has “Welcome” on it. Hopefully that applies to vampires too.
NOT_RICK@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 14h
Yup, Richard Chase
sunsofold@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 15h
The trick is, it depends. All vampires are bound by obsessive compulsive behaviours, but the particular form that obsessive behaviour takes depends on a number of factors. The most prominent are age and culture of origin.
More recently embraced American vampires tend to become absorbed in the minutiae of the contractual, legalistic formulation of things, so if they have an aversion to entering without permission, it is more based upon an obsession with the sanctity of individualized private property. This leads to the trait of rarely making a direct entry into a home for predatory purposes but rather a focus on convincing the victim it is in their best interest to give willingly their vital fluids and life force. Many victims of such vampires are not even fully aware of what they have had taken.
Older vampires from a more European context take a more hierarchical approach to property. If your home is in their territory, you are their subject and, as such, no permission is needed to enter what is effectively their house, perhaps literally if they are your landlord.
Other contexts, such as that of the Middle East of antiquity, produce vampires who hold sacred the unwritten yet iron clad laws of hospitality. They would never dream of entering unannounced, or taking more than a token sip from one who invites them willingly into their home, but equally would feel no compunction over slaughtering one who turned them away. To these, a welcome mat is an amusement, not an invitation, and only the most desperate leach would stoop to taking a whimsical decoration as written law.
But then again, vampires are an imaginary metaphorical construct for describing the greedy people of a society, so really the answer is no.
moopet@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 5h
So a neck tattoo that says, "My body is a temple. Vampires not welcome in the sanctity of this temple" would do the trick?
ChojinDSL@discuss.tchncs.de · 13 pts · 8h
My door mat says, "Dogs welcome, humans tolerated". I think I'm good.
NABDad@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 5h
Mine says GO AWAY.
It's a door mat, not a welcome mat.
pega_sus@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3h
Sounds too assertive to be a door mat
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5m
Mine is a hillbilly frog with a rifle and says "Hippity hoppity, get off my property"
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 13h
Welcome is present day "well met" or something more like "I'm happy you're here" not "please come in my house".
So no, I think you can keep your mat; most vampires are probably old enough to take the original meaning anyway.
emeralddawn45@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 7h
This is an interesting interpretation, but even assuming that most vampire s actually are that old, which isn't a given, id think theyd still abide by the modern definition. Language changes, and that's not what it means anymore, especially not in the context of a welcome mat.
stopforgettingit@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 15h
A no soliciting sign doesn't stop solicitors, so I don't see why a welcome mat should have any more power.
jake_jake_jake_@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 15h
Depending on the jurisdiction, soliciting often requires a permit and conditions of the permit include obeying no soliciting signs. Failure to obey typically means the permit can be revoked, or it could be a criminal offense. Could be worth looking into that for your area.
lonefighter@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 14h
The apartment complex where I live is posted no soliciting. Management heavily encourages people to call the police if solicitors ignore the sign. Even more shocking, the police will actually come and throw solicitors off the property if they're contacted. (This is also the same police department that tracked down and got an arrest warrant for the random stranger who broke into my car the day after it happened)
stopforgettingit@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 14h
Thank you friend for that tip, I am going to look in to this.
Jela@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 4h
Not to take this too literally but.... According to pagan and wiccan practices, the welcome mat gives permission to all potentially negative spirits to enter
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 16h
Only if the hemogoblin can read it. Just because they may have been around for centuries doesn't mean they've bothered to learn every language.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world · 11 pts · 16h
Slurs like that make you sound like a hemophobe.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 5h
How do you think the industry started?
Vandals_handle@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 17h
I'd expect yours to say "Well Cum" or some such
bluGill@fedia.io · 7 pts · 16h
My Grandpa always had a "hello" mat because he would say hello to anyone, but not everybody was welcome.
toynbee@piefed.social · 4 pts · 8h
I used to have one that said "Hi, I'm Mat" because I found it hilarious.
We throw a party for my kid's birthday every year. My wife keeps taping signs to the front door for the party; they always say "come on in, the party's in the back!" I keep telling her that someday a vampire is going to take advantage of that, but she seems unconcerned.
normalentrance@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 2h
My wife bought a welcome mat that says "please leave" in cursive. Highly recommend.
danciestlobster@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 26m
I had one in college that said go away. Someone stole it
pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 16h
You've been added to the Best of Lemmy: https://sh.itjust.works/post/65361060
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 13h
Botzo@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 17h
Nope. But mine says "welcome foolish mortals."
toomanypancakes@crazypeople.online · 5 pts · 16h
That's why I have one, but I'm still waiting on my dracula daddy to arrive
Dmez01@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 14h
https://youtube.com/shorts/hD3V1Nwg7qQ
Zier@fedia.io · 4 pts · 15h
If you get one that says "Quarantine Zone" you can be assured vampires & humans will go away.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 15h
you're welcome to stand on my mat as long as you want blood sucker, but you'll never come inside my house.
moopet@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 5h
If it's down to the literal words and not the sentiment, there's nothing to stop the vampire from inventing their own language and teaching it to local villagers, where the sound or symbols,"no" mean, "please come in".