I got laughed at and called paranoid and alarmist before Trump was re-elected when I talked about project 2025 and how terrifying it was.
One day in the summer before the election I had an interaction at work with a member of the public. An older white gentleman from a conservative area that has a lot of racists. He started talking to me and bringing the conversation around to politics, and I was mentally bracing myself to grit my teeth and remain professional. He told me how he was a lifelong Christian and then he surprised the living fuck out of me. He actually teared up and asked if I had heard of Project 2025. When I told him I had he said that it scared him so badly, that they were laying out how they wanted to oppress and kill his fellow Americans just because they were different and he was terrified that it was going to be enacted and that he didn't believe in any of that and wanted to stand up against it and would not vote for it.
I think about him every once in awhile and wish we had more people like him in this country.
I wish more people understood that there are good Christians out there. I'm not christian myself but one of my best friends is. And not one of those who just say they are but don't follow any of it. He goes to church every week, waited until marriage and spent one year after high school studying theology full time. And he is one of the nicest people I know. One of his best friends is a trans woman who lives in a polycule and he has no problem with it.
The worst Christians are the ones who don't listen to their own scripture. It litteraly says right in the new testament, dozens of times, that you shouldn't judge. Judgment is a sin.
being a decent human being and being religious are basically perpendicular axes. you can be both, or neither, or either or.
some people really go out of their way to make the lives of others miserable, religious beliefs notwithstanding. the local motorbike school recently had to move their training away from an emergency wartime airfield because a nearby farmer dumped like 40 tons of of earth on it. it's not his land, it's state-owned, and it's in the middle of the woods. nobody lives within several km. he just didn't want people there.
I contend that the truly devout should rather denounce their religion so as to not provide cover for monsters who pretend in vain to be something they are not.
But that's very reductive of me as well, I'm sure it does enough good in some way, but I find it hard to believe in any sort of invisible almighty benevolent figure that has all the power in the universe, and yet we live in a world where if they were real, I couldn't help but think they are cruel at best.
The problem is that the"good christians" still prioritize fighting against abortion #1, and #2 fighting against lbgtqia policies, marriage, etc. Those are THE most important things to them.
People who don't understand that religious rules are only for people that really care about the religion. Even most practicing religious folks aren't fully Orthodox
You really don't think LGBTQ affirming Christians exist? That's just ignorance on your part. Just search LGBTQ affirming churches and you'll find thousands around the world.
This is exactly what broke me. Idgaf about the world anymore. Clear as day plans to fuck everything up, destroy the planet, economically genocide the poor. Nobody in power did shit about it and voters elected them anyways. No amount of being right matters when people refuse to see the obvious. The only way to get people to act, wisely or not, is to manipulate them into it and so here we are. The most propagandized, misinformed and manipulated population in human history.
Literally, manipulated into navigating life while being incapable of utilizing their own intelligence because anger shuts down parts of the brain and narrows focus.
Idk, p sure North Korea is more propagandized, misinformed, and manipulated.
Not to say shit isn't bad here. But at least there is some resistance to it. Mamdani didn't get elected because people are ok with just sleeping through it, after all.
Sure, it might be too little, too late. But we have at least a fighting chance still.
I would argue not, North Korea doesn't produce the volume of messaging we do or deliver it as often or in so many spaces of our lives as we do. NK propaganda is state organized and pervasive but its got the sophistication of a previous age of mass media, closer to WW2. Our media landscape is an insanely powerful tool of manipulation.
I feel both glad and bad for the ones like that who seem to follow the intent of Jesus' message, however I also remember that it's because of their silent acceptances of the vocal ones who are full of hate and racism that allow it to continue. If they won't rise up against blatant twisting of their religion, nothing will change. They should tear up, but then be in their church rallying against the use of their religion for political gain. You know, the whole reason behind church/state separation.
I don't understand where you get this feeling of silent acceptance. If there is something Christians are known for it's inter-christian conflict. Conservative christians absolutely despise liberal Christians and vice versa. If you spend some time in online christian spaces you will quickly see how conservative christians spend almost as much time bashing liberal Christians as they spend on ethnic or sexual minorities, if not more so depending on the space.
That's sort of my point. I don't see any of that outside of the inner spaces, and the loudest voices give an image that this is how all Christians are. If within Christian circles there is a constant argument going on about what is and isn't "Christ-like" then great, but it's not helping if that isn't obvious in public. The very post I replied to was in the framework of "a Christian spoke about what's going on and was opposed to it" as if that is an unusual thing to hear. It shouldn't be, I'm sure there are a lot of believers who aren't happy, but they aren't talking loud enough to counter or drown out the ones who are all for it.
Okay but... do you believe everything that Donald Trump says? Like how he represents all Americans, or Republicans/conservatives, or Christians, or whoever? If you believe that, and also believe those like Charlie Kirk, then doesn't that say more about you than about them?
It is extremely well-known that for-profit enshittified news sources will spew enrage-bait content into your face. That does not make such content "true facts", nor does it make it "mainstream". Please do not rely upon Facebook, Threads, Tiktok, Instagram, X, or even YouTube, etc. for your "news" - they all paint a highly distorted view of reality.
Hate, love, or view Christians as they are, not as social media paints them to be. Likewise Americans. Or Muslims, or LBGTQIA+ individuals, etc. Perhaps mainstream Christians may even be avoiding social media altogether?
Right, silent acceptance. Hence the example you responded to of a Christian speaking up to a stranger and expressing his disdain for the evil being wrought by other âChristians.â
For a while there Donnie tried to play it off like he had no idea was 2025 was and hand no interest in it. For some reason some people actually bought it.
Trump is just a puppet to distract from the Project 2025 and Techno Libertarian assholes behind the scenes. They put him on the ticket because the Idiot Cult is easy votes. He agreed because it meant staying out of jail.
The real tell, is if in Jan, they immidiately turn on him and install True Believer⢠Vance as the new President. Then they can just manipulate everything to 10 years of perfrct Christo fascism.
Except the world economy will likely collapse before that.
And also the truth too. Like he said that he is going to take away the rights of certain others to vote, who in the past have done so "incorrectly", and he said that he will run again for a third term. I believe he is genuine about both of those.
It was the explicit support for genocide and the tacit support for transphobia that made me dislike her.
I don't blame anybody with family in Palestine refusing to vote for her.
I think Trump is the perfect candidate to destroy the Clintonian Democratic party, because their entire goal is to be The Lesser of Two Evils. They want to press right up to the Republicans like it's a tango, and tell everybody "look, I'm not as bad as him, vote for me!"
Trump pulled Harris so far out with him that her own voters didn't recognize themselves in her platform. She wanted more wars, more violent policing, more surveillance, more queer phobia entrenched into law, more uneven tax system. She had no policies that I approved of that didn't take a paragraph to explain.
Look, I donât live in the US but there is usually a side that is a lot worse than the other. Holier than thou attitudes of âbut the better side wasnât as good as I wanted so I let the worse side get into powerâ is basically being part of an apocalyptic cult. Itâs pathetic. You could still oppose everything you oppose now but with a better baseline. Yeah I want my left politicians to be better in certain topicsâsome that impact me a lot personally and I can still be an advocate for those thingsâit doesnât mean I implicitly support the extreme right here getting into power.
I do live in the U.S., and I'm acutely aware that it's not a law of nature. It won't endure forever, as some sort of fundamental human condition. It may feel that way because it's always been there, even in our great-grandparents' lifetimes, by we're seeing how fragile it actually is. The nation and its values have to be maintained, as any system has to. Voting for the lesser evil every time, rather than doing the maintenance, will catch up to us. There won't always be a next time to attempt a non-evil candidate.
It ain't fair, there's not always a solution or a good option, but that's life. We need better than what Harris offered, or we're cooked.
Trump literally said he wanted to turn the entire area into a parking lot and hotels.
Harris was a bit wishy washy on the subject.
But hey, at least we went with the greater of two evils. Horay for the maybe .001% of the population with family in Palestine. At least in the long run, they will have a nice resort to stay at while visiting the graves of their families.
Trump literally said he wanted to turn the entire area into a parking lot and hotels.
That's what Ben-Gvir, and other Israeli ultranationalists want. They'd still want that even if Harris were President. I just don't see the evidence that her adminstration would be pushing back on that, given that Democratic leaders are still voting to send foreign aid to Israel.
(I'm not trying to defend the fascist regime, but I think truth matters.)
The reason is kind of important, no? You can shrug and say idiots and racists, but that's far from the whole story, not really even the primary reason. A big piece of it is people feeling disengaged from politics, which is understandable, since U.S. policy hasn't reflected the will of the people for almost 50 years now.
More or less telegraphing that "I will not listen to what you want" and "I support evil but have the decency to feel bad about it" (like on Gaza, for example) is not a great way to motivate people in this environment.
i mean there may be some merit, because the DNC is fighting these progressives far harder then the ever fought the republicans or trump. even after they already won.
That's why they destroy education. That's why they like the small-minded people. And that's why they like AI so much. They need something to do the thinking for them, but they can't afford it to be people...
Hitler wrote what he is going to do. People didn't take him serious and everyone thought oh I get an advantage. Oh this doesn't happen to me. Later when it happened to them it was too late as the people who it didn't happen to didn't wanted to help because it didn't happened to them.
Conservatives (Germany ca. 1933): Hitler will only throw the enemies of the German people in jail, so I'm safe.
Gestapo, some time later at their door: Hallo.
Conservatives: Oh no, who could have seen this coming?
the good news is that none of this seems to matter at all somehow. people carry on with their lifes as if nothing bad is happening. what the actual fuck.
Since 2021 I can't find all sorts of articles I had previously. Even with the publication, date of publication, name of title, and author name, in articles I effortlessly found prior to 2021. I feel like I am the only one angry about all of this sometimes.
I learned a lot from the guys on collapse on the big social media group reddick there. I can try to find a link but idk about the details I had writing on it saved on my old laptop that froze up on me.
I can't find anything either, except a facebook post that might mention it but I am not on facebook as such and it's not a good source. That is the only hit on the search that even pretended to find what I was looking for, the rest are purposefully not what I searched for.
I know it can work better, because it did work better. Anyway I will reply again if I find something, but if on reddick try the collapse sub and sound them out on it on an economic type post and they will give you more links that you could read.
Yeah, I am infinitely frustrated by the enshitification of search on all platforms. There are some awesome videos that I can no longer find on Youtube, scientific publications that are super difficult to find now. Oddly, the CIA government site's search still works great for declassified documents.
The only political thing in that regard I remember is the Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI. The business roundtable was created 1972 so maybe they are referring to a previous organization? However the Business roundtable has a wikipedia entry that's already grim
Kamala Harris stated that while she anticipated many of Donald Trump's presidential actions, she was deeply surprised by the widespread "capitulation" of institutions, lawmakers, and corporate leaders who failed to act as guardians of democracy.
There is a president that tried to overthrow the elected government, is a convicted criminal, is openly corrupt and don't get me started on what he did to children! And no one does something! It's insane.
"But he said he didnt know about/disavowed Project 2025.. how can he be following it so closely?!" - Typical conservative voter, who will absolutely, despite their outrage, vote again on an illegal third term
"Project 2025 is fine because democrats aren't great" - that's what you sound like. You can hate FPTP and fight to get rid of it, once you've turfed the fascists out.
The voting system is fucked. It's not called a two-party system for fun, but because systematically that's what happens with a first-past-the-post system. It's the spoiler effect.
American voting behavior is entirely controlled by the media and their oligarch owners. Americans believe so thoroughly in the myth of their free press that they outsource their political analysis to whatever media outlet triggers their specific fears/hatreds/desires.
Because of the way our voting system works, voting for a third party usually votes against the voters interests.
For example...the 2000 Election was a huge hubbabaloo over the voting results from Florida...was a very narrow margin between Democrat and Environmentalist Al Gore, and Republican George W. Bush.
Ralph Nader also ran for the Green Party, one of the larger and more well-known third parties. Green is very left, and very environmentalist.
Nader didn't get very many votes...but he did get enough that had like half of those voters just voted for Gore, Gore would've won the state and thus the election, and the world would be a much cooler place today.
I'm certain that if we had a preferential/ranked-choice voting system, the runoff process would've revealed Gore as a very clear winner.
The next step is realizing that Obamacare, Build Back Better, and pretty much every "win" from the "resistance" is written by or re-packaged from the exact same group of people.
The ACA was never what was really wanted, ever, but it did make a difference for many people. So many that even conservatives will say they hate Obamacare, but the government better not touch their ACA. They are so close to getting it, yet never will. And we almost didn't get the "terrible" ACA, so imagine where we'd be. It's not a win, but it's not a lose either. It was a compromise with conservatives to get some improvements while the door was open for getting the votes, and that slammed shut the rest of his two terms. (thanks Mr. zombie Mitch)
We sure about that? Seems the people in control of the party were quite pleased to pass it and nothing more. Also, how many times can Democrats pre-compromise then compromise again before people get suspicious?
I hear it repeated a lot with many anecdotal examples and rationalizations but by every quantifiable metric healthcare post 2010 is much worse than before.
Just the pre-existing conditions rule alone is huge. The wikipedia article is a good resource vs. just anecdotal, and it looks like the general opinion is the ACA was just a start and people wanted more adjustments to make it better. Republicans of course voted over 60 times to try and repeal it, without ever offering anything better.
The metrics you're talking about might not be from the ACA effects, but from other issues hitting the health care industry over time. There's mention of lots more people becoming insured with the act with a surge in doctor visits, but then later years that dwindled because the facilities couldn't support the demand because of closures or not enough staff. That's not the ACA.
Better health outcomes for those with "pre-existing conditions"? Because that isn't the case, and unless diabetes suddenly changed to be more aggressive and deadly I don't see any externalities that would explain the data. Do you?
Better financial outcomes? There was a small period between 2013-2018 where this was arguably true, for specific people. But it does show in general trends enough to maybe be true for a time.
The metrics you're talking about might not be from the ACA effects, but from other issues hitting the health care industry over time.
Yes, and disentangling those is hard. However, the implicit assumption you're starting from is that the externalities were significantly greater. I would agree that is somewhat true for COVID and it's downstream effects, but there isn't anything else I can really point to. Do you have something?
that dwindled because the facilities couldn't support the demand because of closures or not enough staff. That's not the ACA.
But remember that bOtH sIdEs SaMe, at least according to some. Sorry, I know it's heartbreaking to keep saying that, but it's true (that people say that). Some people say things that are going to legitimately get millions (billions even?) of people killed, and entire nations (already) toppled. Just so we can eventually become more open to becoming "communist" like... (checks notes) North Korea.
Mind you, I doubt that they actually believe it, but they do keep saying it nonetheless.
I am reminded that a deer freezing upon being confronted with headlights is actually a somewhat decent evolutionary strategy: moving would draw immediate attention to them, especially against a backdrop that they can blend into. And if they get caught and eaten well... at that point it was basically inevitable anyway, so some slim chance at avoiding that gruesome end is better than an even tinier, basically non-existent one.
It is true that people say it, but it's far more true that they are such a trivial number of people that like North Korea that the fact that they come up so frequently in these conversations feels like such a misplace of energy.
If you want to criticized someone for being deer in the headlights of project 2025, maybe consider the democratic establishment, that watched idly by while republicans broke norms, and arguably laws, to pack the supreme court. Inventing new conventions for reasons why they can't cede a single seat as the unelected body of supreme rule found radical new ways to insert themselves into established law.
All while keeping the facade that the courts are a neutral body that simply arbitrates, and that their decisions are in good faith.
Um, actually, unprecedented means something that hasn't happened before. Even if Project 2025 specified something to be done, it's still not necessarily precedented until it's actually done.
I got called a conspiracy theorist a lot by most people I know when I talked about project 2025 and the open plan of theological fascism the GOP was planning to enact before it all started being rolled out.
I donât get called a conspiracy theorist these days.
136 Comments
lonefighter@sh.itjust.works · 257 pts · 18h
I got laughed at and called paranoid and alarmist before Trump was re-elected when I talked about project 2025 and how terrifying it was.
One day in the summer before the election I had an interaction at work with a member of the public. An older white gentleman from a conservative area that has a lot of racists. He started talking to me and bringing the conversation around to politics, and I was mentally bracing myself to grit my teeth and remain professional. He told me how he was a lifelong Christian and then he surprised the living fuck out of me. He actually teared up and asked if I had heard of Project 2025. When I told him I had he said that it scared him so badly, that they were laying out how they wanted to oppress and kill his fellow Americans just because they were different and he was terrified that it was going to be enacted and that he didn't believe in any of that and wanted to stand up against it and would not vote for it.
I think about him every once in awhile and wish we had more people like him in this country.
Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz · 67 pts · 17h
I wish more people understood that there are good Christians out there. I'm not christian myself but one of my best friends is. And not one of those who just say they are but don't follow any of it. He goes to church every week, waited until marriage and spent one year after high school studying theology full time. And he is one of the nicest people I know. One of his best friends is a trans woman who lives in a polycule and he has no problem with it.
The worst Christians are the ones who don't listen to their own scripture. It litteraly says right in the new testament, dozens of times, that you shouldn't judge. Judgment is a sin.
lime@feddit.nu · 43 pts · 17h
being a decent human being and being religious are basically perpendicular axes. you can be both, or neither, or either or.
some people really go out of their way to make the lives of others miserable, religious beliefs notwithstanding. the local motorbike school recently had to move their training away from an emergency wartime airfield because a nearby farmer dumped like 40 tons of of earth on it. it's not his land, it's state-owned, and it's in the middle of the woods. nobody lives within several km. he just didn't want people there.
OpenStars@discuss.online · 7 pts · 10h
Next up: dirt bike training!!!đ¤Ş
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 9h
They're not good Christians
They're good people despite Christianity
Tyrq@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 14h
I contend that the truly devout should rather denounce their religion so as to not provide cover for monsters who pretend in vain to be something they are not.
But that's very reductive of me as well, I'm sure it does enough good in some way, but I find it hard to believe in any sort of invisible almighty benevolent figure that has all the power in the universe, and yet we live in a world where if they were real, I couldn't help but think they are cruel at best.
nobodysreadingthis@quokk.au · 1 pts · 11h
Brain isn't parsing religious not-piece-of-shit. I know they have existed, but it feels like in the modern context it just doesn't work.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 10h
Well, they were trained to be good slaves
taj@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 12h
The problem is that the"good christians" still prioritize fighting against abortion #1, and #2 fighting against lbgtqia policies, marriage, etc. Those are THE most important things to them.
JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 16h
People who don't understand that religious rules are only for people that really care about the religion. Even most practicing religious folks aren't fully Orthodox
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9h
One thing that every single person of faith has in common is that they're hypocrites
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 7h
Oh my God fuck off with your imaginary friend.
Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 6h
You really don't think LGBTQ affirming Christians exist? That's just ignorance on your part. Just search LGBTQ affirming churches and you'll find thousands around the world.
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 1h
I don't give a fuck lol. Adults who believe in an imaginary fairy in the sky shouldn't be allowed to vote lol.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 17h
This is exactly what broke me. Idgaf about the world anymore. Clear as day plans to fuck everything up, destroy the planet, economically genocide the poor. Nobody in power did shit about it and voters elected them anyways. No amount of being right matters when people refuse to see the obvious. The only way to get people to act, wisely or not, is to manipulate them into it and so here we are. The most propagandized, misinformed and manipulated population in human history.
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 16h
They're kept perpetually angry just because it keeps them from thinking clearly.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 16h
Literally, manipulated into navigating life while being incapable of utilizing their own intelligence because anger shuts down parts of the brain and narrows focus.
currycourier@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 11h
Idk, p sure North Korea is more propagandized, misinformed, and manipulated. Not to say shit isn't bad here. But at least there is some resistance to it. Mamdani didn't get elected because people are ok with just sleeping through it, after all. Sure, it might be too little, too late. But we have at least a fighting chance still.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 7h
I would argue not, North Korea doesn't produce the volume of messaging we do or deliver it as often or in so many spaces of our lives as we do. NK propaganda is state organized and pervasive but its got the sophistication of a previous age of mass media, closer to WW2. Our media landscape is an insanely powerful tool of manipulation.
Rhaedas@fedia.io · 7 pts · 17h
I feel both glad and bad for the ones like that who seem to follow the intent of Jesus' message, however I also remember that it's because of their silent acceptances of the vocal ones who are full of hate and racism that allow it to continue. If they won't rise up against blatant twisting of their religion, nothing will change. They should tear up, but then be in their church rallying against the use of their religion for political gain. You know, the whole reason behind church/state separation.
Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 17h
I don't understand where you get this feeling of silent acceptance. If there is something Christians are known for it's inter-christian conflict. Conservative christians absolutely despise liberal Christians and vice versa. If you spend some time in online christian spaces you will quickly see how conservative christians spend almost as much time bashing liberal Christians as they spend on ethnic or sexual minorities, if not more so depending on the space.
Rhaedas@fedia.io · 1 pts · 15h
That's sort of my point. I don't see any of that outside of the inner spaces, and the loudest voices give an image that this is how all Christians are. If within Christian circles there is a constant argument going on about what is and isn't "Christ-like" then great, but it's not helping if that isn't obvious in public. The very post I replied to was in the framework of "a Christian spoke about what's going on and was opposed to it" as if that is an unusual thing to hear. It shouldn't be, I'm sure there are a lot of believers who aren't happy, but they aren't talking loud enough to counter or drown out the ones who are all for it.
OpenStars@discuss.online · 3 pts · 10h
Okay but... do you believe everything that Donald Trump says? Like how he represents all Americans, or Republicans/conservatives, or Christians, or whoever? If you believe that, and also believe those like Charlie Kirk, then doesn't that say more about you than about them?
It is extremely well-known that for-profit enshittified news sources will spew enrage-bait content into your face. That does not make such content "true facts", nor does it make it "mainstream". Please do not rely upon Facebook, Threads, Tiktok, Instagram, X, or even YouTube, etc. for your "news" - they all paint a highly distorted view of reality.
Hate, love, or view Christians as they are, not as social media paints them to be. Likewise Americans. Or Muslims, or LBGTQIA+ individuals, etc. Perhaps mainstream Christians may even be avoiding social media altogether?
Jaycifer@piefed.social · 1 pts · 59m
Right, silent acceptance. Hence the example you responded to of a Christian speaking up to a stranger and expressing his disdain for the evil being wrought by other âChristians.â
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 16h
We do, they're scared and isolated
ShellMonkey@piefed.socdojo.com · 76 pts · 18h
For a while there Donnie tried to play it off like he had no idea was 2025 was and hand no interest in it. For some reason some people actually bought it.
AmyAye@nord.pub · 17 pts · 17h
Trump is just a puppet to distract from the Project 2025 and Techno Libertarian assholes behind the scenes. They put him on the ticket because the Idiot Cult is easy votes. He agreed because it meant staying out of jail.
The real tell, is if in Jan, they immidiately turn on him and install True Believer⢠Vance as the new President. Then they can just manipulate everything to 10 years of perfrct Christo fascism.
Except the world economy will likely collapse before that.
OpenStars@discuss.online · 11 pts · 18h
Desperation would be my guess.
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 16h
Virtually everything he says is a lie anyway.
OpenStars@discuss.online · 1 pts · 10h
And also the truth too. Like he said that he is going to take away the rights of certain others to vote, who in the past have done so "incorrectly", and he said that he will run again for a third term. I believe he is genuine about both of those.
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · -4 pts · 7h
For a while Biden pretended not to know he was alive, in order to completely support and supply an active genocide. Death to America.
bigkahuna1986@lemmy.ml · 56 pts · 18h
But her laugh
Sibshops@feddit.cl · 24 pts · 18h
Old people are so easily manipulated to clips.
expatriado@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 18h
she never recovered from falling from a coconut tree
lemmyng@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 14h
Buttery males
eestileib@sh.itjust.works · -13 pts · 18h
It was the explicit support for genocide and the tacit support for transphobia that made me dislike her.
I don't blame anybody with family in Palestine refusing to vote for her.
I think Trump is the perfect candidate to destroy the Clintonian Democratic party, because their entire goal is to be The Lesser of Two Evils. They want to press right up to the Republicans like it's a tango, and tell everybody "look, I'm not as bad as him, vote for me!"
Trump pulled Harris so far out with him that her own voters didn't recognize themselves in her platform. She wanted more wars, more violent policing, more surveillance, more queer phobia entrenched into law, more uneven tax system. She had no policies that I approved of that didn't take a paragraph to explain.
Complete malpractice.
Fishy@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 17h
Look, I donât live in the US but there is usually a side that is a lot worse than the other. Holier than thou attitudes of âbut the better side wasnât as good as I wanted so I let the worse side get into powerâ is basically being part of an apocalyptic cult. Itâs pathetic. You could still oppose everything you oppose now but with a better baseline. Yeah I want my left politicians to be better in certain topicsâsome that impact me a lot personally and I can still be an advocate for those thingsâit doesnât mean I implicitly support the extreme right here getting into power.
eestileib@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 16h
Look I donated to and voted for Harris, and urged others to do the same.
But I'm not in the turd polishing business, and that's what Democrats expect their base to do, over and over again.
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 4 pts · 16h
I do live in the U.S., and I'm acutely aware that it's not a law of nature. It won't endure forever, as some sort of fundamental human condition. It may feel that way because it's always been there, even in our great-grandparents' lifetimes, by we're seeing how fragile it actually is. The nation and its values have to be maintained, as any system has to. Voting for the lesser evil every time, rather than doing the maintenance, will catch up to us. There won't always be a next time to attempt a non-evil candidate.
It ain't fair, there's not always a solution or a good option, but that's life. We need better than what Harris offered, or we're cooked.
AmyAye@nord.pub · 17 pts · 17h
GeNoCiDe
Trump literally said he wanted to turn the entire area into a parking lot and hotels.
Harris was a bit wishy washy on the subject.
But hey, at least we went with the greater of two evils. Horay for the maybe .001% of the population with family in Palestine. At least in the long run, they will have a nice resort to stay at while visiting the graves of their families.
eestileib@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 16h
I donated to and voted for Harris.
Because I hated Trump.
There was nothing else appealing about her to me, and I have a lot of the identity politics that was theoretically supposed to make me gooey for her.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 7h
Stop belittling opposition to genocide just because you are incapable of loving anything else.
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 7h
Biden literally did a genocide, no matter how wonky you make the letters, scumbag.
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · -1 pts · 15h
That's what Ben-Gvir, and other Israeli ultranationalists want. They'd still want that even if Harris were President. I just don't see the evidence that her adminstration would be pushing back on that, given that Democratic leaders are still voting to send foreign aid to Israel.
(I'm not trying to defend the fascist regime, but I think truth matters.)
AmyAye@nord.pub · -3 pts · 12h
I mean, my point is, both choices were bad for Palestine on some level. One choice was demonstably terrible, for literally everyone, everywhere.
And for some reason (idiots, racists) we picked the terrible option.
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 8 pts · 11h
The reason is kind of important, no? You can shrug and say idiots and racists, but that's far from the whole story, not really even the primary reason. A big piece of it is people feeling disengaged from politics, which is understandable, since U.S. policy hasn't reflected the will of the people for almost 50 years now.
More or less telegraphing that "I will not listen to what you want" and "I support evil but have the decency to feel bad about it" (like on Gaza, for example) is not a great way to motivate people in this environment.
ArrantKnave@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 18h
It's depressing to see how far along it is: https://project2025.observer/
OpenStars@discuss.online · 14 pts · 17h
Agree to disagree - it's only depressing if you pay attention to reality! (/s)
culprit@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 17h
Dems at the convention when they see Pro-Palestine protestors outside.
skunk@lemmy.zip · 32 pts · 11h
Really sucks that the us right wing has no opposition to speak of
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 7h
Don't worry, they have the center right wing to keep them in check.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 9h
Sure they do, there's the slightly more and slightly less right wing.
lordziv@lemmy.nz · 8 pts · 11h
Well that's what we are trying to change with these progressive candidates coming through into the midterms :)
skunk@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 10h
people really still fall for this đĽ˛
WraithGear@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 10h
i mean there may be some merit, because the DNC is fighting these progressives far harder then the ever fought the republicans or trump. even after they already won.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 28m
Then your concern is not unique to the USA
yopyop@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 6h
Reminds me of this skit : https://youtu.be/aXzjxVYPjys
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 32 pts · 17h
Worse still, the people with the most power to oppose it (the DNC leadership) are STILL functionally shrugging, when not actively going along with it!
The likes of Schumer and Jeffries are as useful as tits on a tractor and need to be deposed ASAP.
argueswithidiots@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 13h
Um, tits on a tractor? I'm a farmer and have never heard this. You have made my god damn year, Viking Hippie. Thank you.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 10h
You're very welcome đ
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 7h
Don't get out much, hey?
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 15h
That's why they destroy education. That's why they like the small-minded people. And that's why they like AI so much. They need something to do the thinking for them, but they can't afford it to be people...
lemmyng@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 14h
Trump: I love the poorly educated!
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 11h
And the poorly educated love him back
Because he tells them that their racism, bigotry and stupidity make them better than the people they are afraid of
Their betters.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 7h
"Keeping them even dumber than me is hard work!"
4am@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 14h
Wait until they find out AI doesnât do any thinking and just regurgitates what it was trained onâŚoh hey yeah theyâre gonna love it!
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 25 pts · 9h
Trump: We're going to do project 2025.
Trump: It's a good plan but we might have to workshop some things
Trump: I've never heard of it before in my life
Media: He's never heard of it before in his life.
Frettchen@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 5h
Hitler wrote what he is going to do. People didn't take him serious and everyone thought oh I get an advantage. Oh this doesn't happen to me. Later when it happened to them it was too late as the people who it didn't happen to didn't wanted to help because it didn't happened to them.
BionicBeaver3000@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 5h
Conservatives (Germany ca. 1933): Hitler will only throw the enemies of the German people in jail, so I'm safe. Gestapo, some time later at their door: Hallo. Conservatives: Oh no, who could have seen this coming?
Moral of the story: The leopard bites every face.
valkyre09@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 3h
"You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth"
BlindPenguin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 31m
Conservatives (Germany 2026):
andxz@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 4h
Churchill took him very seriously after having read it, and it served him well in the long run.
ironpangolin29@lemmy.ca · 21 pts · 6h
The only egregious part of the carnival is that people think the shit show will end once trump dies.
He is just a puppet mouthpiece and clown face of the hidden puppet masters who are hiding behind his megalomania.
Trump didn't win, he was put there because he was useful to the real people in power, even if he doesn't know it himself.
gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org · 18 pts · 12h
the good news is that none of this seems to matter at all somehow. people carry on with their lifes as if nothing bad is happening. what the actual fuck.
spacegoat@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 11h
Same with COVID. Millions dead and no one gives a fuck except to unjustly accuse Fauci
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 9h
At least we have conversations now akin to "Remember how much better life was during COVID?"
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 27m
Who the fuck says that. I had to support my whole family with no daycare. I will destroy whoever says that.
tetris11@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 7h
Empire rise, empire fall
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 52m
What comes next?
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 25m
Socialism or barbarism.
Smaile@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 11h
yah just avoid all the food that give you ecoli....
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 8h
And cyclospora.
bedwyr@piefed.ca · 15 pts · 13h
Project 2025 was just the latest iteration whereby they redrafted their schemes.
This was all outlined back in 1971 at the Business Roundtable that made the long game to overthrow the republic in all but name that has led us here.
Omnipitaph@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 12h
Would you mind sourcing a link or giving me some good search keywords? Our tech overlords are making searching for this not a lot of fun.
bedwyr@piefed.ca · 4 pts · 11h
Since 2021 I can't find all sorts of articles I had previously. Even with the publication, date of publication, name of title, and author name, in articles I effortlessly found prior to 2021. I feel like I am the only one angry about all of this sometimes.
I learned a lot from the guys on collapse on the big social media group reddick there. I can try to find a link but idk about the details I had writing on it saved on my old laptop that froze up on me.
I can't find anything either, except a facebook post that might mention it but I am not on facebook as such and it's not a good source. That is the only hit on the search that even pretended to find what I was looking for, the rest are purposefully not what I searched for.
I know it can work better, because it did work better. Anyway I will reply again if I find something, but if on reddick try the collapse sub and sound them out on it on an economic type post and they will give you more links that you could read.
Omnipitaph@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 9h
Thanks for the pointers.
Yeah, I am infinitely frustrated by the enshitification of search on all platforms. There are some awesome videos that I can no longer find on Youtube, scientific publications that are super difficult to find now. Oddly, the CIA government site's search still works great for declassified documents.
RunawayFixer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 8h
I think they are referring to the Powell Memo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum_(1971)
This video connects some more of the dots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgYkde3o2Xw
DeadDigger@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 10h
The only political thing in that regard I remember is the Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI. The business roundtable was created 1972 so maybe they are referring to a previous organization? However the Business roundtable has a wikipedia entry that's already grim
jama211@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 3h
Smart people didn't shrug, they voted against it. Idiots and republicans shrugged and let this happen.
tmyakal@infosec.pub · 11 pts · 3h
My partner's parents when we explained some of Project 2025 to them:
Pulsar@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 14h
Kamala Harris stated that while she anticipated many of Donald Trump's presidential actions, she was deeply surprised by the widespread "capitulation" of institutions, lawmakers, and corporate leaders who failed to act as guardians of democracy.
yuki_gassen@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 13h
Yup. Almost like corporate leaders were never guardians of democracy.
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · 7 pts · 13h
That has to be a lie. If we knew what would happen, how could she not.
Xerxos@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 14h
There is a president that tried to overthrow the elected government, is a convicted criminal, is openly corrupt and don't get me started on what he did to children! And no one does something! It's insane.
FluorideMind@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 12h
A couple people have tried to do something.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 14h
"But he said he didnt know about/disavowed Project 2025.. how can he be following it so closely?!" - Typical conservative voter, who will absolutely, despite their outrage, vote again on an illegal third term
solidheron@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 17h
I remember maga saying Trump's not connected to project 2025 the. Saying all the connections to project 2025 don't count
lobut@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 16h
All of this is very easy when you accept the Americans are fucking morons.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 16h
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 7h
Democrats still be gaslighting people who did not want to vote for their 5000th corporate stooge.
jama211@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 3h
"Project 2025 is fine because democrats aren't great" - that's what you sound like. You can hate FPTP and fight to get rid of it, once you've turfed the fascists out.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3h
You can get rid of it by voting for corporate stooges who love it?
This entire idea is based on a false premise that you somehow hold any political power AFTER voting.
gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 1h
You're an idiot if you don't vote, you're a robot if you do, you can't win either way.
By not voting, you're giving up your rights before you've even lost them, all cause you've convinced yourself that you're gonna lose anyway
echodot@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 6h
I don't understand Americans, there must be appetite for a third option and yet whenever a third option is presented virtually no one votes for them.
flying_sheep@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 6h
The voting system is fucked. It's not called a two-party system for fun, but because systematically that's what happens with a first-past-the-post system. It's the spoiler effect.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · just now
This is why I interpret candidates who support FPTP as hostile. They either want Republicans to win, or are incompetent to stop them.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 25m
American voting behavior is entirely controlled by the media and their oligarch owners. Americans believe so thoroughly in the myth of their free press that they outsource their political analysis to whatever media outlet triggers their specific fears/hatreds/desires.
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 54m
Because of the way our voting system works, voting for a third party usually votes against the voters interests.
For example...the 2000 Election was a huge hubbabaloo over the voting results from Florida...was a very narrow margin between Democrat and Environmentalist Al Gore, and Republican George W. Bush.
Ralph Nader also ran for the Green Party, one of the larger and more well-known third parties. Green is very left, and very environmentalist.
Nader didn't get very many votes...but he did get enough that had like half of those voters just voted for Gore, Gore would've won the state and thus the election, and the world would be a much cooler place today.
I'm certain that if we had a preferential/ranked-choice voting system, the runoff process would've revealed Gore as a very clear winner.
But instead...we got George W. Bush.
SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 18h
The next step is realizing that Obamacare, Build Back Better, and pretty much every "win" from the "resistance" is written by or re-packaged from the exact same group of people.
Rhaedas@fedia.io · 14 pts · 17h
The ACA was never what was really wanted, ever, but it did make a difference for many people. So many that even conservatives will say they hate Obamacare, but the government better not touch their ACA. They are so close to getting it, yet never will. And we almost didn't get the "terrible" ACA, so imagine where we'd be. It's not a win, but it's not a lose either. It was a compromise with conservatives to get some improvements while the door was open for getting the votes, and that slammed shut the rest of his two terms. (thanks Mr. zombie Mitch)
Folstar@lemmus.org · -1 pts · 14h
We sure about that? Seems the people in control of the party were quite pleased to pass it and nothing more. Also, how many times can Democrats pre-compromise then compromise again before people get suspicious?
SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 17h
By what metric?
I hear it repeated a lot with many anecdotal examples and rationalizations but by every quantifiable metric healthcare post 2010 is much worse than before.
Rhaedas@fedia.io · 11 pts · 17h
Just the pre-existing conditions rule alone is huge. The wikipedia article is a good resource vs. just anecdotal, and it looks like the general opinion is the ACA was just a start and people wanted more adjustments to make it better. Republicans of course voted over 60 times to try and repeal it, without ever offering anything better.
The metrics you're talking about might not be from the ACA effects, but from other issues hitting the health care industry over time. There's mention of lots more people becoming insured with the act with a surge in doctor visits, but then later years that dwindled because the facilities couldn't support the demand because of closures or not enough staff. That's not the ACA.
SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 12h
Which has had what effect?
Better health outcomes for those with "pre-existing conditions"? Because that isn't the case, and unless diabetes suddenly changed to be more aggressive and deadly I don't see any externalities that would explain the data. Do you?
Better financial outcomes? There was a small period between 2013-2018 where this was arguably true, for specific people. But it does show in general trends enough to maybe be true for a time.
Yes, and disentangling those is hard. However, the implicit assumption you're starting from is that the externalities were significantly greater. I would agree that is somewhat true for COVID and it's downstream effects, but there isn't anything else I can really point to. Do you have something?
You sure? Because I can draw a pretty straight line between the ACA and private equity gutting healthcare facilities for the tax credits and direct payments that were promised by the heritage foundation.
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 7h
Lol. Shit hole country.
DarkSurferZA@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 5h
"if you read project 2025..."? The faq makes you think maga voters can read? How were they to know?
rebelsimile@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 3h
from a guy paying for twitter, eh?
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 56m
It's on Threads
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 31m
I am amazed every day that people willingly use a Nazi website.
OpenStars@discuss.online · 4 pts · 18h
But remember that bOtH sIdEs SaMe, at least according to some. Sorry, I know it's heartbreaking to keep saying that, but it's true (that people say that). Some people say things that are going to legitimately get millions (billions even?) of people killed, and entire nations (already) toppled. Just so we can eventually become more open to becoming "communist" like... (checks notes) North Korea.
Mind you, I doubt that they actually believe it, but they do keep saying it nonetheless.
I am reminded that a deer freezing upon being confronted with headlights is actually a somewhat decent evolutionary strategy: moving would draw immediate attention to them, especially against a backdrop that they can blend into. And if they get caught and eaten well... at that point it was basically inevitable anyway, so some slim chance at avoiding that gruesome end is better than an even tinier, basically non-existent one.
chortle_tortle@mander.xyz · 5 pts · 16h
It is true that people say it, but it's far more true that they are such a trivial number of people that like North Korea that the fact that they come up so frequently in these conversations feels like such a misplace of energy.
If you want to criticized someone for being deer in the headlights of project 2025, maybe consider the democratic establishment, that watched idly by while republicans broke norms, and arguably laws, to pack the supreme court. Inventing new conventions for reasons why they can't cede a single seat as the unelected body of supreme rule found radical new ways to insert themselves into established law.
All while keeping the facade that the courts are a neutral body that simply arbitrates, and that their decisions are in good faith.
Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 7h
Which side is anti genocide in the middle east? Which side is anti war?
Your foreign policy is uniparty, and it features exclusively death and destruction of millions of civilians.
Death to America.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 2h
Something being written down in a planning document doesn't exactly make it precedented. Or am I misunderstanding something?
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 32m
Fair, but Mein Kampf was a historical precedent.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 15m
Outside of a law court, the meaning can be exactly that.
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 12h
Lemmy is gaining traction.
Vetis@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 12h
Mhyeah, but that's unrelated
jack_of_sandwich@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 14h
But the known liar told us he knew nothing about Project 2025. Why wouldn't we believe him?
svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 15h
Um, actually, unprecedented means something that hasn't happened before. Even if Project 2025 specified something to be done, it's still not necessarily precedented until it's actually done.
plyth@feddit.org · 2 pts · 6h
I think the precedent is meant to be the book of a famous Austrian painter.
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 16h
When I showed people they were like âis this real?â And I showed them it was being hosted by Wikipedia but most of them still thought it was fake
jtrek@startrek.website · 2 pts · 17h
Most people just aren't that bright. And many people are struggling to get food and shelter.
Many people do have time and money and decided they didn't care, though. Gotta go play video games, I guess.
NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 15h
I got called a conspiracy theorist a lot by most people I know when I talked about project 2025 and the open plan of theological fascism the GOP was planning to enact before it all started being rolled out.
I donât get called a conspiracy theorist these days.
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18h
Most people didn't read it. For or against
wpb@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 6h
SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10m
Americans are too self-centered to care about little things like, oh, what kind of world we're going to be.
mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 15h
"read"?
Isn't there a youtube summary video with disingenuous clips edited out of context put together by some shithead in his bedroom?