Yeah, same in the UK. Really annoyed me that the plumber, electrician.. etc were all engineers. In Germany it's as protected as calling yourself doctor, which ultimately affects how people view the profession and the salaries they command
I mean, it's a protected term in Canada too but it doesn't necessarily lead to higher salaries.
My cousin who's an electrician made about as much as I did as an electrical engineer, and I left electrical engineering to be a software developer because it paid more. Engineering paid more than being an electrical technician / designer, but not by a huge amount.
I left aeronautical engineering to become a software "engineer" for similar reasons, salary and work culture. Actual engineering pays quite terribly in the UK, it's a fair bit better in Germany or the US from what I hear.
It does not only dictate your professional life/status in Germany, being a doctor, your social as well. Someone I know got a postdoc in germany, no luck finding a place to live until they started asking their german collegues to call and saying "doctor so-and-so is looking for an appartment". So, he gets one. The guy has a very long full name, so the nametag the landlord is gonna put on the postbox is way to long, but if you cut off the part where it says he is a doctor, it would fit. He insists to cut that part away, the landlord just refuses, says fuck your name and person basically, and cuts off part of his last name instead. Saying you are a doctor gets you first in fucking everything (maybe not lufthansa, then they just say 'senators' or something). Extremely class divided social society that.
Yeah it's difficult for me to name my title in English 'cause the word doesn't exist. I went to a technical high school, not university. (Not college!)
Hmmm. But all the people around me working in software studied multiple years in an Engineering field. In my case, I studied a 5-year industrial engineering and two masters afterwards; I feel very comfortable wearing the "software engineer" or more accurately "robotics engineer" badge.
No, that's precisely the opposite of my point. If you drive an Uber, you're an Uber driver. People are "CEO" or "Judge" despite nobody having a CEO or Judge degree. Your profession is what you do, not what you happened to study in your teens to get there.
I understand your point now and I agree. Your colleagues that studied engineering became programmers. Why do people treat this as if that’s bad? It’s a beautiful profession.
I don't think it's bad, in fact I wonder the same. These are my colleagues because it's the same path I took - I now work developing self-driving cars (I slowly transitioned from aerospace to manufacturing automation to robotics) and it's the most rewarding job I've ever had, and it feels very much like engineering. I don't care if I'm not a "manufacturing engineer" anymore; I really like my job and I like my title to reflect somewhat accurately what I do, but that's the extent I care about it.
How come they don't count? They're figuring out how the machines should work, for money. That's engineering, right? (I'm an American mechanical engineer)
In Canada you have to be qualified and licensed to call yourself an engineer. There are people who can use the title "software engineer", but it's not the majority of people working in development.
No student said yes. He argued, that we are ( if we go this way). Using best practice, industrie norms and standards to create a product used by many. And if you are in medicial software, you errors can evem cost lifes - just like a bridge engineer!
Softwareingenieur darf man sich nennen, wenn man ein mathematisch-naturwissenschaftliches Fach studiert hat, wo Informatik dazugehört. Somit ist Software Engineer oder Softwareingenieur die korrekte Berufsbezeichnung für alle mit einem Bachelor/Master oder höher in Informatik.
That is not entirely true. It's a bit more complicated. Yes it is protected since the 1970s but it's more of an academic title. You needed to study something that is "mainly" of technological or scientific nature. Basically befire the Bologna reform every student in Tec. Unis/FHs did get the title Diplom-Ingenieur. So the engineer part was literally part of your degree. This of course also true in case you studied IT. So yes there are many who call themselves IT engineers also in Germany. However it's more of a philosophical question how much software development is actually engineering or rather craftsmanship.
I'm in tech and "computer programmer" has always sounded to me like a grandma phrase. Like how all gaming consoles are referred to as "the Nintendo" or "the game station".
I remember telling my high school guidance counsellor I was planning on becoming a programmer. She looked at me, head tilted like a confused dog and asked what excited me about Event Programming (as in, planning and scheduling large in-person events).
That was the first time someone didn't understand what I did for work, and it was about 5 years before I started doing it.
That's funny, plain "programmer" would be my preferred term if it weren't for the fact that non-tech folks think it sounds like menial work. I've landed on "software engineer" because that's what my employer calls me and other people seem to understand a little bit, too.
I was hired with the official title "software engineer," then I was noted in all unofficial org charts as a "SE/DE" (software engineer/data engineer), and recently my boss announced that I have had my title officially changed to "data engineer". My job functions have not changed the entire time I've been here. I write Python, SQL, KQL and Pyspark scripts and have to fuck around with Azure architecture sometimes. So there's not always clear delineation between these terms, anyway.
Lol, are you me? Job application said software engineer. 3 months after I was hired, it changed to data engineer with no changes to the work I do. I wasn't even notified, just noticed on a random day that the role on my profile on Teams had changed. I also do Python, SQL, and Pyspark scripts, but use AWS instead.
Here in Canada you can't call yourself an engineer unless you are a qualified and licensed engineer. So most people have to call themselves "developer". When you see someone calling themselves a software engineer it should mean something.
Honestly, the longer I work in tech, the less confidence I have in anyone's title. Even searching for a job, different companies have different ideas of what, pretty much everything is....
I'm more on the side of IT support (sysadmin/netadmim/systems engineer/network engineer/second/third level support/engineer/whatever tf)... And even looking for a job for myself, it's a nightmare... Even mundane details about the job are messed up. I saw a posting for a "remote support technician", by their definition, this was "remote" as in, not from an office. The job was on-site support for remote sites. I don't even think it was an IT position, more like mechanical maintenance IIRC. So you were "remote" aka, not at their office, doing support (for something not electronic), as a "technician".
It's bullshit all the way down.
When I was last looking for a job someone commented that I had "only" applied to x positions in y weeks, when their search for (some vague title related to my usual employment) had z search results, where z was more than 10 times x. I didn't bother replying but I couldn't help but think, did you look at any of those postings? I literally had a search filter for jobs that was "CCNA" (Cisco certified) and I literally had administrative assistant positions coming up.... Those are little better than secretarial jobs. I know because I clicked on it because maybe, just maybe they meant an assistant to the systems administrator, but no, it was exactly what it said on the tin.
This is my frustration with IT. There are zero standards for what a job is. Developer? Is it software or something related to construction? Engineer? Are you examining the structure of something or building out IT solutions? Admin? Office admin? Systems admin? Department admin? There's too many "admin" related jobs.... "Support"? Supporting what exactly? Am I programming switchports, or is this some other kind of bullshit support.
That's not even getting into all the actual IT jobs that are clearly out in left field. Sysadmin jobs that require years of experience with an application that's extremely specific to one industry; an application you could learn likely in a matter of days, which isn't very complicated, but your resume goes in a bin if you don't have some very specific certification and a number of years of experience with the related app... I know that because I've applied to such positions and didn't even get a courtesy email telling me to pound sand.
Which takes me to another point, you don't get rejected. You get ghosted. They don't want you? Fine, tell me that. You don't even have to give me a reason, just some copy pasta about pursuing other candidates. That way I will know to not expect anything further, and keep trying. I mean, I'm going to keep trying no matter what, but still...
The whole job market is a hellscape.
Then, I can turn my attention to the pointless titles people have, which often don't mean shit outside of your specific workplace. "Lead customer success technician" ... Ok, wtf is that? What does any of that mean? Are you technical in the sense of working with information technology? Or is it one of the DOZENS of other "technical" things? Everyone is a technician and everyone is an engineer now. Those terms used to mean something. Now they're just keywords to blast your resume with to try to match some AI filter so you can get a call. If you don't play the game, your left behind.
I feel bad for all the professional engineers out there who hold degrees in real engineering. Now anyone, everyone and their mother is calling themselves some kind of engineer. It's all word salad and I hate it.
The reality is also, that development is so extremely diverse, that it's hard to find umbrella-enough terms to describe a job.
For example, I'm a senior software developer on paper.
I'm not senior, not even 10 years job experience. But I seem to be rather good at what I'm doing, so I'm a senior now.
I'm also hardly writing any code. I talk to customers about what they want their software to do, I talk to management about how many people I need, I review pull requests, I talk to junior devs about their problems, etc, etc. Maybe 10% of my time is actual code. But what title other than "developer" should I have?
Maybe "software producer"? (a term I've never seen used anywhere but that sort of makes sense when you think about what a movie producer does, for example)
It's not a huge project (3-4 devs, including myself), there's simply not enough to do for a dedicated architect. PM and SM are done by dedicated roles, but as a lead dev, I obviously have to play translator quite a bit.
In my career i have gone from Systems Engineer to professional services to Profesional services team lead to Senior Systems administrator to now just Systems administrator. All doing basically the same IT stuff at progressively higher levels other than the team lead part.
When i was looking for my last job i applied for a remote admin job and experienced exactly what you described. I was on the third interview and was asked when i was going to move to the area and if i wanted a relocation allowance as part of the offer. Uhh what? To them a remote admin was an administrator that went to remote sites. What a waste of my time
My job title has changed 5x more than my actual job. I honestly don't even know what my current title is.
I wonder how many man-hours (and at what average salary) has been spent deciding on title changes that have literally zero impact at my company. I'm sure every change involves meetings full of highly-paid executives.
"I (want to keep my job and therefore I) AGREE WITH YOU 100%"
They collect the big bucks, the rest of us can suck dirt - barely not able to afford a home, food, medical care, etc. Oh wait, sorry, I meant "YES SIR/MAM!"
I'm a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I'm also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).
I don't know where "software engineer" started but in Australia engineers have to study for years and then do a minimum amount of study every year to keep their license. Which we don't have to do. I've always been weirded out by Software Engineer even though it seems to be becoming more common.
Engineering is engineering. You design it, you build it, you test it. Engineering. We shouldn't gatekeep words.
With that said, I recognize that certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.
Single software engineer can nowadays do more harm than most of other engineers. Just one SQL injection and all the people's personal data have been leaked. Single bug in car self driving software and the car drives in to school bus.
I like the title only because I got a degree in computer engineering and passed the fundamentals of electrical engineering exam. I definitely don't do any engineering but it makes me feel like my degree wasn't a waste.
Edit: also that was an 8 hour test that I really took for no reason.
Software engineer is an accurate term for a lot of roles. The problem is when software engineers step out of their lane and start pontificating about other engineering fields.
You have to do that to be a "Chartered Engineer", "Professional Engineer" etc. Some states require you to have some kind of registration to practice in some roles.
"Engineer" remains an unprotected term in all states and territories as far as I know but I could be wrong. It's definitely unprotected federally.
I'm a Senior Computer Software Developer Programming Engineer, or SCSDPE (which is pronounced Skuzz-Deep), and I will be irreparably miffed if you get it wrong.
For your convenience, I also accept "that guy that sits weirdly close to the water fountain", "hey", and "paid keyboard user".
Depends. I've studied for my engineering title, I have standards and ethics. Requirements, specification, design, architecture, programming, testing, integration, delivery, everything is part of my job. If you are a programmer, you only do programming.
Look at the state of software in the world. Even for Boeing standards, most software is abysmal. You can have personal standards all you want, if business daddy wants to deliver untested crap, I might object, but I can't stop it and it's usually not a hill I would want to die on.
I'd argue that if you seriously consider yourself a software engineer, and you take the "engineer" part seriously, you should be quitting and blowing the whistle if that happens. If you just go along with it, then sure, you're not an engineer.
Dude, you're living in fantasy land if you're being serious. Engineers build all types of shoddy and dangerous crap just because they're being paid to do it. Most of weapons manufacturing is mech eng. Almost no one is gonna quit their job over some ethical dispute, even if it's costing lives.
The entire industry works on shipping duct taped products.
I do have my standards, but there's a point at which you have to say "it's good enough". If someone's at risk of dying or being harmed, yeah, that's a real problem. If the application keeps crashing and loses the business money, that's not my problem, I can only notify my superiors about my concerns.
That's why I said it depends. If a billion dollar company decides to cut costs even more to gain more and more profits, they hire an army of codemonkeys in India and that is what you get.
If you work at a mid sized company interested in sustainable growth, you might get a software engineering position where you are the business daddy and if you say "I won't deliver that untested" then it won't be delivered untested.
I'm working at a company in Germany and we are leading in our field. I have one boss and he listens to what I tell him because he doesn't have a clue about software engineering and that's what he hired me and my team for.
Look into Agile, servant leadership and new work (the real stuff and not the garbage "hip" companies want to make you believe) if you want to understand.
It's the old principles that kill companies like Boeing, because they think they can make big profits like it's 1984 solely by pumping money into an army of wage slaves.
Look into "how a company works", because that directly works against anything you say.
Not that I disagree with your ambition, I would like to only ship tested code. But if you're working with deadlines and fixed budgets, that's often enough impossible. I can't even get a proper specification out of my clients, and even if they do, it'll change in a week. You can be as agile as you want, if money runs out, there's not much you can do.
But then it all circles back around. I have advanced degrees in (non software) engineering from actual top tier engineering schools and I should not be trusted to write production code. That's what software engineers are for.
I disagree with that. I mean, I don't know how good you are at writing software, so maybe you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near production code. But, just because code is "production" doesn't mean it should exclusively be the domain of people who are "software engineers".
In my mind, software engineering involves implementing new algorithms that are from a computer science paper you just read, or architecting a big and complex system. Or, if there are lives on the line. I'd want people writing code for a new Space Shuttle to think of themselves as engineers, not just code monkeys.
But, a self-taught developer is fine to update production code for a web app as long as they write the correct tests and get it peer reviewed.
I've been a programmer my whole career, but some years ago my then-employer gave me the actual title of "visionary". This caused me to immediately lose the respect of my coworkers, and after a few months it was obvious my employer was just preparing to get rid of me and replace me with H-1Bs.
My doctor's digital prescription service has been ransomwared. It's been a few weeks, and they paid the millions of dollars in Bitcoin or whatever, but it's still encrypted and my doctor had to write me a prescription on paper.
The fact that a digital prescription service could have that happen is madness to me. The fact that they don't have offline backups for prescriptions is insane. Yes, they could have been in there for a while, encrypting everything, but if the company had tested its backups they'd have found out immediately.
All of these are things that wouldn't have happened if computing professions were held to standards.
Ok, sure. What standards? For fields like Civil Engineering it's pretty easy to come up with reasonable standards. But, if a software engineer is writing a generic key-value store, how do you evaluate whether that item meets the required standards?
There are things that a developer can and should check to make sure his code is secure, but my focus is mainly on the systems and those can definitely be held to standards. Things like checking dependencies for known exploits, enforcing 2FA and TLS on all connections, encrypting data at rest, and testing backups, among a lot of other stuff.
I've worked with hundreds of organizations across many different industries in my career and almost none of them do all or even most of those, even if they need to be compliant for things like HIPAA or SOX. I once worked with an aerospace company whose sysadmin/webmaster/network guy was literally the founder's son, who got the job because he knew how to make a web page.
This is my opinion that is basically a compilation of the coworkers I've talked to about the subject.
Depends on the role. Passed senior level most prefer to be called engineers. Those are the people designing the whole system. Software developers are usually more mid level and figure out the specifics of how to design smaller sections of the system. They cut a lot of the detailed tickets and write a lot of infrastructure code.
Programmer is usually the juniors who never design much and just take tickets and turn them into code.
When I say senior, mid level, and junior, I'm referring more to the role that you're fulfilling that day, and not the overall skill level. Engineers will often step in as programmers for more complicated code.
We usually accept any of the terms though because it's very rare for someone to not jump between the various tasks depending on what the active project is. And at some companies they only hire seniors and they perform all roles.
TL;DR: Every software engineer is a developer and programmer, but not every developer is an engineer, and not every programmer is a developer or engineer.
I prefer Software Engineer, mostly because I studied at an engineering school and have a degree in Software Engineering. My actual titles have varied throughout my career, but I overall consider myself a software engineer.
I got told the difference between a software developer and an engineer is that an engineer factors in a products lifecycle and scalability and communicates this to their team and client
"Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?" -Shodan
I have rotated between countless titles over several decades. What I do hasn't really changed. Currently I'm not even aware what my official title is and when someone asks I usually say something along the lines of I make IT go but in my native language.
A load of the devs at my original dotnet shop are still there, but are now called stuff like “Vice President Regional Director Lord Protector Master Technical Architect”. I suspect they’re all still writing VB.
Yeah, it’s weird to me as an engineer that when I’m on Lemmy people use that word to mean programmer. Nah, I work in a factory and had to learn thermodynamics
In my mind, the line is that an engineer is someone that can commit a crime by doing their job incompetently. If the only things at risk are your job and your pride, that's a different thing.
"I program all day, so there's a lot of trial and error. My friend is a negligent civil engineer, so there's a lot of error and trial."
If you're an electrical engineer who works in a nuclear power plant and your incompetence leads to a meltdown, you're going to go on trial. Possibly also if you're doing software engineering for the control systems of that power plant.
If you're a software engineer who works on Lemmy, not so much.
It’s always been weird to me as someone who isn’t an engineer in degree or title why those with degrees in engineering think people shouldn’t use an accurately descriptive word like engineer when it’s perfectly appropriate just because it’s a little to close to the title of their licensed profession.
Engineer is a verb, to devise or contrive something. Simply, to design a construct. A programmer by definition engineers a program and is therefore by the rules of the English language, an engineer.
They may not be a Licensed Professional Engineer, but an Engineer they remain.
But, we're not talking about formal titles. We're talking about job titles. I've never heard of someone called "Engineer Jones", just "Mr. Jones who is an Engineer".
If you're a doctor of musical theory but you work in human resources as a clerk and someone asks you for your job title, you don't say "Doctor Clerk", you say "Clerk".
So, if you're trained as a Civil Engineer but you changed careers and are now writing javascript, are you a Software Engineer, whereas someone with a Computer Science degree can't claim that title?
I draw the line at using just "Engineer". The word Engineer has baggage, it means something pretty specific already. If you engineer something other than physical structures you should list what that something is, like Software Engineer or Network Engineer.
Train Engineer is a bit confusing because they also have historical claim to "Engineer" but no longer have the same electrical and mechanical education afaik. Correct me if I'm wrong!
I like Computer Programmer. No mistaking it. Developers are people who organise houses to be built. Engineers work on trains. Coders encrypt data. No matter what nonsense word salad it says on my email signature, when I'm at a barbecue I say I'm a computer programmer.
I usually say "I'm a computer toucher" or "computer programmer" if I don't want to talk about what I do. If I want to flex some nerd cred, and/or boast a little, I'll usually say "I work with machine automation" or "robotics". It tends to get a more curious response and I can talk about some of the weird stuff I've helped make.
I used to work for Cisco (the huge router etc. company) but my mom thought I was working for Sysco (the food services supply company). She was very surprised to learn that I had anything at all to do with computers.
I have always considered myself an engineer because I’m part of a multidisciplinary engineering organization designing a physical product that has embedded software. And “engineer” is the word at the end of my degrees, I guess.
But if somebody called me by any of those terms in the OP I would answer. And if somebody who works on an app or a video game calls themselves an engineer, it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.
My only conclusion is that we here, who spend our days specifying exactly what we want computers to do, are not so great specifying ourselves exactly.
At some jobs, I can get away with "Señor Developer" or "Computer Toucher". Those are the nice ones.
Otherwise it tends to be "Senior Software Engineer" that carries the least constricting baggage.
I SWEAR big company middle managers hear "developer" and they can only ever see you as an infant who without guidance would just keep coding some absolute random shit and not think about product, market, customers, integration, or prioritize their own work.
It depends who I'm talking to and where I live. Where I live, engineer is a protected title and requires certification/etc so that takes it out of the race. That leaves the other options. Generally I am a Web Developer to people my age or younger, to people older than me I am usually a Computer Programmer but also sometimes a Developer or Software Developer instead. Realistically, I am a Full Stack Website Developer.
Referring to my job doesn't get any easier even as someone in tech.
I'm technically an aerospace engineer, but all I do is code most days. I think it depends highly on what you do, since my job also involves doing things not strictly coding related as well, I always slap the engineer title next to it. If you only code, then it's more appropriate to say software dev, or programmer. But, again its highly dependent on your role.
And as other people have mentioned, seems like outside the U.S. the term engineer is a protected title, so my take really only applies within the U.S.
I would say tho, a lot of programmers in the U.S. do get called software engineers. Just depends on where you go I guess.
I don't think what you study in your degree is the defining factor. Obviously this is country-specific but I feel you job title isn't always linked 1:1 to your title.
I studied Industrial Engineering, which in Spain exists as a degree but not as a job position. Position wise, I've been a mechanical design engineer, a manufacturing engineer, an automation engineer, robotics engineer, and these days I'm mostly a software engineer. I'm definitely specialised in engineering, regardless of the tools I'm applying to solve the task at hand.
IMO if they're not an educated Computer Engineer, or at a minimum have a math-focused degree, then calling them Engineers is more than a little generous.
It’s funny when I’m looking for work and people try to help me find jobs. I’ve been sent jobs for “coder” which turned out to be “medical code entry into EPIC” and architect because they saw another job with “software architect”.
If you iteratively solve problems by learning, building models, and trying hard to break said models until a sufficiently robust one remains - welcome to engineering.
Yes, yes, Engineer is protected in a lot of spaces. Even here. That said the university programme I've attended was to make me into a "Sotware Engineer" not a "Developer". This university is a university for engineers.
Obviously I don't have to requalify every year to remain an Engineer, but saying that I am not an Engineer is factually untrue.
I dont care about names but to be offended because it says Software Engineer on my resume is just dumb.
Also we design a lot of crucial systems. (Such as any RTOS, banking systems and so on and so forth)
In Canada the term "Engineer" is a protected title that only registered professional engineers may use. Claiming to be an engineer without such credentials is considered equivalent to claiming to be a doctor of medicine; It constitutes fraud.
That being said, I see all the time employers and employees, seemingly ignorant to this law, post "Software Engineer" in job titles.
Registered professional engineers in the software development space is a rare occurrence.
I think typically A, B, C, and F are acceptable to most people. I certainly wouldn't mind any of those descriptions. D feels antiquated. E is too broad. G just sounds like a hobbyist.
Yeah but the programming is done on a computer and then uploaded to that device. It's not specific enough of a term anymore. That's why it feels antiquated. Back in the 80s, most people didn't know enough about computers to know there were differences in different types of programming, and there were fewer types then too. These days you still don't need to be too specific unless you're discussing your role with someone else in the industry but still, if you just say you're a programmer now, pretty much everyone will know you mean it's computer programming.
Actually my title is “Senior Network Architect”. I hate it. I feel like it detracts from real architects, who have licensure and actual training from an actual school.
I hate it as an architect, and I hated it as an “engineer”, for the same reason.
Yes, there’s a lot of complexity and planning, especially at larger scales. But it’s mostly self-taught, some webinars, and a lot of on-the-job (read: trial-by-fire) training.
When it comes to telling computers what to do, I have no idea what to call it. I write Python scripts and Ansible modules, I guess. That doesn’t make me any of those titles though. Some times I poor-mans deamonize my scripts (while true loop) and pack them in a container.
Using some of the same tools doesn’t make me any more of the same title.
Everyone who works on making software is a developer, even people who don’t program at all. people who make art for software work in software development. A “coder” only writes code. It’s more of a task than a job. A software engineer does technical design and probably also codes.
software engineer (engineer for short), software developer (dev/developer for short), software designer (although that last one sounds weird). the job is a lot more than programming, depending on your position it can be mostly communication or mostly engineering or mostly something else entirely. maybe even mostly sitting on your ass all day!
I hate that they took away my analyst title. I'm not a software engineer dammit. I don't even have an IDE installed and haven't done any programming in 10+ years.
Serious question, not a native speaker: Why do people in the Anglosphere refer to mostly-software companies as tech companies, or to software developers as tech workers?
I'd prefer senior developer but HR calls me a senior engineer.
I personally believe if you are writing novel IP software you are engineering, if you are just connecting cloud tools or writing basic ETL stuff, that's developing.
Coder isn't a professional title. Software engineer and engineer are very broad of a term, because they can cover alot of work that's not directly coding software. Not all programmers write software code, some just 'program' software that's already written.
So i think developer is the best term for someone that 'develops' and write software code for a living. Or even software developer, those terms are interchangable.
Not only does this meme ignore the fact there's only 4 choices in Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, it doesn't even do an even number of them leaving it annoyingly lopsided
I'd say in English there is more of a difference, in my native language the term is more blurry I'd say, for a random person it just sounds as "computers", and to most people that's all they care about.
From someone who transitioned from operations to development over the course of their admittedly short career, this is a poor mindset. Much like how you shouldn't disrespect a janitor or a nurse, you shouldn't say "gross" about IT work.
IT may not be the reason for the company's existence, but it is what allows it. The company may not exist without you, but you don't exist without IT.
As a Mechanical Engineer, a massive fuck you to everyone who calls software development, programming, or network management a form of "engineering". Do you know how much extra work is now needed to filter out job postings when you're looking for an ACTUAL engineering position?
Ok, not a ton of extra work, but it's still really good damn annoying when 2 out of 3 posts are actually for developers. You guys belong in the T in STEM, not the E. Stay in your fucking lane!
As a mechanical engineer turned software developer, I do consider the task to be fundamentally an engineering task.
It's just that the willingness to forgive ineptitude in software is infinitely greater... So much so that the industry has completely normalized absolute garbage work.
It's engineering, just with systemically terrible engineers.
341 Comments
nieceandtows@programming.dev · 256 pts · 2y
Codebender
assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world · 156 pts · 2y
But everything changed when the file nation attacked
nieceandtows@programming.dev · 96 pts · 2y
And although his coding skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he deploys anything to production.
Pistcow@lemm.ee · 28 pts · 2y
Thats rough, buddy.
nieceandtows@programming.dev · 7 pts · 2y
My first coding project got axed.
teft@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 2y
What? Everyone else went on a code learning field trip with Zuko. Now it’s my turn.
clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 2y
Secret tunnel! Through the firewall!
negativenull@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 2y
Codesmith
EonNShadow@pawb.social · 26 pts · 2y
Filerunner
Bugbreaker
Diskbringer
Clouddancer
Docwatcher
Screenweaver
IfElsecaller
'netward
Codesmith
The orders of the Devs Radiant must stand again
WolfLink@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 2y
Technomancer
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 2y
this is basically the 2000s "Code Ninja Wizard Monkey Robot" all over again.
spork!
scorpionix@feddit.de · 90 pts · 2y
Not engineer.
At least here in Germany, engineer is a protected profession. Other than that: All of the above.
Infynis@midwest.social · 53 pts · 2y
Interesting. In the US, all kinds of jobs are called engineers
omgitsaheadcrab@sh.itjust.works · 54 pts · 2y
Yeah, same in the UK. Really annoyed me that the plumber, electrician.. etc were all engineers. In Germany it's as protected as calling yourself doctor, which ultimately affects how people view the profession and the salaries they command
masterspace@lemmy.ca · 18 pts · 2y
I mean, it's a protected term in Canada too but it doesn't necessarily lead to higher salaries.
My cousin who's an electrician made about as much as I did as an electrical engineer, and I left electrical engineering to be a software developer because it paid more. Engineering paid more than being an electrical technician / designer, but not by a huge amount.
omgitsaheadcrab@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2y
I left aeronautical engineering to become a software "engineer" for similar reasons, salary and work culture. Actual engineering pays quite terribly in the UK, it's a fair bit better in Germany or the US from what I hear.
brbposting@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2y
US much better than Germany I’ve heard!
emberwit@feddit.de · 1 pts · 2y
Software yes, actual no
mumblerfish@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
It does not only dictate your professional life/status in Germany, being a doctor, your social as well. Someone I know got a postdoc in germany, no luck finding a place to live until they started asking their german collegues to call and saying "doctor so-and-so is looking for an appartment". So, he gets one. The guy has a very long full name, so the nametag the landlord is gonna put on the postbox is way to long, but if you cut off the part where it says he is a doctor, it would fit. He insists to cut that part away, the landlord just refuses, says fuck your name and person basically, and cuts off part of his last name instead. Saying you are a doctor gets you first in fucking everything (maybe not lufthansa, then they just say 'senators' or something). Extremely class divided social society that.
brbposting@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 2y
Damn I’m surprised to hear that!
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 2y
TBF some plumbers and electricians are qualified engineers, just not all.
Damage@feddit.it · 1 pts · 2y
Yeah it's difficult for me to name my title in English 'cause the word doesn't exist. I went to a technical high school, not university. (Not college!)
tsonfeir@lemm.ee · 6 pts · 2y
There are a few dick engineers working on the corner. Dickvelopers? Cockologists?
prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2y
I believe job titles specifically are(were?) considered in exempt / non-exempt status for overtime.
Why Administrator is in a lot of titles also.
Jrockwar@feddit.uk · 16 pts · 2y
Hmmm. But all the people around me working in software studied multiple years in an Engineering field. In my case, I studied a 5-year industrial engineering and two masters afterwards; I feel very comfortable wearing the "software engineer" or more accurately "robotics engineer" badge.
acockworkorange@mander.xyz · -3 pts · 2y
During the 2008 recession, a lot of Uber drivers had engineering degrees. I guess we should start calling Uber drivers engineers too.
Jrockwar@feddit.uk · 10 pts · 2y
No, that's precisely the opposite of my point. If you drive an Uber, you're an Uber driver. People are "CEO" or "Judge" despite nobody having a CEO or Judge degree. Your profession is what you do, not what you happened to study in your teens to get there.
acockworkorange@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 2y
I understand your point now and I agree. Your colleagues that studied engineering became programmers. Why do people treat this as if that’s bad? It’s a beautiful profession.
Jrockwar@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 2y
I don't think it's bad, in fact I wonder the same. These are my colleagues because it's the same path I took - I now work developing self-driving cars (I slowly transitioned from aerospace to manufacturing automation to robotics) and it's the most rewarding job I've ever had, and it feels very much like engineering. I don't care if I'm not a "manufacturing engineer" anymore; I really like my job and I like my title to reflect somewhat accurately what I do, but that's the extent I care about it.
Gladaed@feddit.de · 8 pts · 2y
If you studied a technical science and do coding for that you may be allowed to be called ingenieur.
CurbsTickle@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 2y
explodicle@local106.com · 5 pts · 2y
How come they don't count? They're figuring out how the machines should work, for money. That's engineering, right? (I'm an American mechanical engineer)
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 2y
In Canada you have to be qualified and licensed to call yourself an engineer. There are people who can use the title "software engineer", but it's not the majority of people working in development.
PapstJL4U@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
That was a question a c.s. professor asked us.
Do you percieve yourself as Engineers?
No student said yes. He argued, that we are ( if we go this way). Using best practice, industrie norms and standards to create a product used by many. And if you are in medicial software, you errors can evem cost lifes - just like a bridge engineer!
However, Germany has a weird fablr with titles.
rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 2y
Softwareingenieur darf man sich nennen, wenn man ein mathematisch-naturwissenschaftliches Fach studiert hat, wo Informatik dazugehört. Somit ist Software Engineer oder Softwareingenieur die korrekte Berufsbezeichnung für alle mit einem Bachelor/Master oder höher in Informatik.
emberwit@feddit.de · 1 pts · 2y
Dann muss man schon auch als solcher tätig sein, sonst nicht.
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org · 4 pts · 2y
Sparkling Technologist.
pwalker@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 2y
That is not entirely true. It's a bit more complicated. Yes it is protected since the 1970s but it's more of an academic title. You needed to study something that is "mainly" of technological or scientific nature. Basically befire the Bologna reform every student in Tec. Unis/FHs did get the title Diplom-Ingenieur. So the engineer part was literally part of your degree. This of course also true in case you studied IT. So yes there are many who call themselves IT engineers also in Germany. However it's more of a philosophical question how much software development is actually engineering or rather craftsmanship.
astraeus@programming.dev · 2 pts · 2y
They have to protect German engineering at all costs
Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee · 1 pts · 2y
Here in portugal too. But there is a specific engineering field which is informatic engineering? Software engineer essentially
NotSteve_@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 2y
It is in Canada too but that doesn't seem to stop companies from using the term
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 82 pts · 2y
I'm in tech and "computer programmer" has always sounded to me like a grandma phrase. Like how all gaming consoles are referred to as "the Nintendo" or "the game station".
Poutinetown@lemmy.ca · 22 pts · 2y
Has there been a programmer for anything other than a computer
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 2y
angry domino logic programmer noises
Poutinetown@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 2y
Do you program domino logic on a electric board or on a computer?
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
https://youtu.be/OpLU__bhu2w?si=ZXToQKl8SbhZni5O
PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks · 2 pts · 2y
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
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marcos@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 2y
Yes. And, by the way, "computer" was once the name of a profession, carried out by people.
neuracnu@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 2y
Television programming? It’s a stretch, one might say a broad-casting of the term.
small_crow@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 2y
I remember telling my high school guidance counsellor I was planning on becoming a programmer. She looked at me, head tilted like a confused dog and asked what excited me about Event Programming (as in, planning and scheduling large in-person events).
That was the first time someone didn't understand what I did for work, and it was about 5 years before I started doing it.
0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 2y
That's funny, plain "programmer" would be my preferred term if it weren't for the fact that non-tech folks think it sounds like menial work. I've landed on "software engineer" because that's what my employer calls me and other people seem to understand a little bit, too.
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2y
I was hired with the official title "software engineer," then I was noted in all unofficial org charts as a "SE/DE" (software engineer/data engineer), and recently my boss announced that I have had my title officially changed to "data engineer". My job functions have not changed the entire time I've been here. I write Python, SQL, KQL and Pyspark scripts and have to fuck around with Azure architecture sometimes. So there's not always clear delineation between these terms, anyway.
odium@programming.dev · 4 pts · 2y
Lol, are you me? Job application said software engineer. 3 months after I was hired, it changed to data engineer with no changes to the work I do. I wasn't even notified, just noticed on a random day that the role on my profile on Teams had changed. I also do Python, SQL, and Pyspark scripts, but use AWS instead.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
I was hired as a Developer and a month or two in they changed our titles to Software Engineer because "It sounds better." I'd have to say I agree!
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 2y
Here in Canada you can't call yourself an engineer unless you are a qualified and licensed engineer. So most people have to call themselves "developer". When you see someone calling themselves a software engineer it should mean something.
sunbytes@lemmy.world · 56 pts · 2y
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 2y
This one is going in my dad joke arsenal. Thank you
Infinite@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 2y
Electron herder
AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 2y
I am the worst kind of programmer, I'm a Scope Inflator.
yamanii@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 2y
Code monkey
clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 2y
Code monkey like Cheetos.
Gumbyyy@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2y
Code monkey like Tab and Mountain Dew.
ramjambamalam@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 2y
Great song and free as in freedom.
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 2y
Good show
joyjoy@lemm.ee · 45 pts · 2y
H.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca · 37 pts · 2y
Honestly, the longer I work in tech, the less confidence I have in anyone's title. Even searching for a job, different companies have different ideas of what, pretty much everything is....
I'm more on the side of IT support (sysadmin/netadmim/systems engineer/network engineer/second/third level support/engineer/whatever tf)... And even looking for a job for myself, it's a nightmare... Even mundane details about the job are messed up. I saw a posting for a "remote support technician", by their definition, this was "remote" as in, not from an office. The job was on-site support for remote sites. I don't even think it was an IT position, more like mechanical maintenance IIRC. So you were "remote" aka, not at their office, doing support (for something not electronic), as a "technician".
It's bullshit all the way down.
When I was last looking for a job someone commented that I had "only" applied to x positions in y weeks, when their search for (some vague title related to my usual employment) had z search results, where z was more than 10 times x. I didn't bother replying but I couldn't help but think, did you look at any of those postings? I literally had a search filter for jobs that was "CCNA" (Cisco certified) and I literally had administrative assistant positions coming up.... Those are little better than secretarial jobs. I know because I clicked on it because maybe, just maybe they meant an assistant to the systems administrator, but no, it was exactly what it said on the tin.
This is my frustration with IT. There are zero standards for what a job is. Developer? Is it software or something related to construction? Engineer? Are you examining the structure of something or building out IT solutions? Admin? Office admin? Systems admin? Department admin? There's too many "admin" related jobs.... "Support"? Supporting what exactly? Am I programming switchports, or is this some other kind of bullshit support.
That's not even getting into all the actual IT jobs that are clearly out in left field. Sysadmin jobs that require years of experience with an application that's extremely specific to one industry; an application you could learn likely in a matter of days, which isn't very complicated, but your resume goes in a bin if you don't have some very specific certification and a number of years of experience with the related app... I know that because I've applied to such positions and didn't even get a courtesy email telling me to pound sand.
Which takes me to another point, you don't get rejected. You get ghosted. They don't want you? Fine, tell me that. You don't even have to give me a reason, just some copy pasta about pursuing other candidates. That way I will know to not expect anything further, and keep trying. I mean, I'm going to keep trying no matter what, but still...
The whole job market is a hellscape.
Then, I can turn my attention to the pointless titles people have, which often don't mean shit outside of your specific workplace. "Lead customer success technician" ... Ok, wtf is that? What does any of that mean? Are you technical in the sense of working with information technology? Or is it one of the DOZENS of other "technical" things? Everyone is a technician and everyone is an engineer now. Those terms used to mean something. Now they're just keywords to blast your resume with to try to match some AI filter so you can get a call. If you don't play the game, your left behind.
I feel bad for all the professional engineers out there who hold degrees in real engineering. Now anyone, everyone and their mother is calling themselves some kind of engineer. It's all word salad and I hate it.
GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org · 12 pts · 2y
We are all SEO Engineers on this cursed day.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 2y
Oh my god.
agressivelyPassive@feddit.de · 6 pts · 2y
The reality is also, that development is so extremely diverse, that it's hard to find umbrella-enough terms to describe a job.
For example, I'm a senior software developer on paper.
I'm not senior, not even 10 years job experience. But I seem to be rather good at what I'm doing, so I'm a senior now.
I'm also hardly writing any code. I talk to customers about what they want their software to do, I talk to management about how many people I need, I review pull requests, I talk to junior devs about their problems, etc, etc. Maybe 10% of my time is actual code. But what title other than "developer" should I have?
merc@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2y
Manager
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Maybe "software producer"? (a term I've never seen used anywhere but that sort of makes sense when you think about what a movie producer does, for example)
Sailing7@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 2y
A few more titles that you will hate, but actually describe your role. You are in no sense just a senior developer.
You are an
Which one fits best, you have to decide. But i would put this up on my resume if i had your responsibilities.
AA5B@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Yeah, I struggle with that.
Recently, maybe DevSecOps sounds most accurate, and I avoid talking rank so I don’t piss off that Prima Donna
agressivelyPassive@feddit.de · 1 pts · 2y
It's not a huge project (3-4 devs, including myself), there's simply not enough to do for a dedicated architect. PM and SM are done by dedicated roles, but as a lead dev, I obviously have to play translator quite a bit.
Dashi@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
In my career i have gone from Systems Engineer to professional services to Profesional services team lead to Senior Systems administrator to now just Systems administrator. All doing basically the same IT stuff at progressively higher levels other than the team lead part.
When i was looking for my last job i applied for a remote admin job and experienced exactly what you described. I was on the third interview and was asked when i was going to move to the area and if i wanted a relocation allowance as part of the offer. Uhh what? To them a remote admin was an administrator that went to remote sites. What a waste of my time
un_aristocrate@jlai.lu · 34 pts · 2y
machine whisperer
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 26 pts · 2y
Hackerman
RustyShackleford@programming.dev · 25 pts · 2y
Tech-priest.
Magos.
O, si es necesario, El Señor Arch-Magos.
Todos alaban al Santo Omnissiah, y así sucesivamente.
OpenStars@startrek.website · 25 pts · 2y
"Job titles are actually a fluid concept - why feel a strong need to label everything?" :-D
GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org · 9 pts · 2y
My job title has changed 5x more than my actual job. I honestly don't even know what my current title is.
I wonder how many man-hours (and at what average salary) has been spent deciding on title changes that have literally zero impact at my company. I'm sure every change involves meetings full of highly-paid executives.
OpenStars@startrek.website · 2 pts · 2y
"I (want to keep my job and therefore I) AGREE WITH YOU 100%"
They collect the big bucks, the rest of us can suck dirt -
barelynot able to afford a home, food, medical care, etc. Oh wait, sorry, I meant "YES SIR/MAM!"MIDItheKID@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 2y
I put "Chaotic Neutral Technomancer" as my title at work and HR said I had to change it.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 2y
Anything except G
Anticorp@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
What about OG?
Feathercrown@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
That I can live with
lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 2y
what's up, my G?
LouNeko@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 2y
A "good girl"
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org · 20 pts · 2y
I'm a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I'm also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).
Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 2y
Digital wizard.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 2y
Croquette@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 2y
Funny because HR doesn't know either and its their job. In the US, you just need to slap engineer at the end and you are golden.
Solemarc@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 2y
I don't know where "software engineer" started but in Australia engineers have to study for years and then do a minimum amount of study every year to keep their license. Which we don't have to do. I've always been weirded out by Software Engineer even though it seems to be becoming more common.
noride@lemm.ee · 31 pts · 2y
Engineering is engineering. You design it, you build it, you test it. Engineering. We shouldn't gatekeep words.
With that said, I recognize that certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.
F04118F@feddit.nl · 8 pts · 2y
How long until they realize software engineering has overlap with public safety too?
Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 2y
Single software engineer can nowadays do more harm than most of other engineers. Just one SQL injection and all the people's personal data have been leaked. Single bug in car self driving software and the car drives in to school bus.
TurtleTourParty@midwest.social · 5 pts · 2y
I like the title only because I got a degree in computer engineering and passed the fundamentals of electrical engineering exam. I definitely don't do any engineering but it makes me feel like my degree wasn't a waste.
Edit: also that was an 8 hour test that I really took for no reason.
AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 2y
Software engineer is an accurate term for a lot of roles. The problem is when software engineers step out of their lane and start pontificating about other engineering fields.
brisk@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 2y
You have to do that to be a "Chartered Engineer", "Professional Engineer" etc. Some states require you to have some kind of registration to practice in some roles.
"Engineer" remains an unprotected term in all states and territories as far as I know but I could be wrong. It's definitely unprotected federally.
prime_number_314159@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 2y
I'm a Senior Computer Software Developer Programming Engineer, or SCSDPE (which is pronounced Skuzz-Deep), and I will be irreparably miffed if you get it wrong.
For your convenience, I also accept "that guy that sits weirdly close to the water fountain", "hey", and "paid keyboard user".
d41@startrek.website · 16 pts · 2y
I have the words "software engineer" in my job title but I hate it.
We aren't engineers, we're a bunch of undisciplined hackers, engineers have standards and ethics.
Programmer is my preferred term, or software developer.
Code monkey is also acceptable.
rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de · 25 pts · 2y
Depends. I've studied for my engineering title, I have standards and ethics. Requirements, specification, design, architecture, programming, testing, integration, delivery, everything is part of my job. If you are a programmer, you only do programming.
agressivelyPassive@feddit.de · -3 pts · 2y
Yeah, that's bullshit.
Look at the state of software in the world. Even for Boeing standards, most software is abysmal. You can have personal standards all you want, if business daddy wants to deliver untested crap, I might object, but I can't stop it and it's usually not a hill I would want to die on.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 2y
I'd argue that if you seriously consider yourself a software engineer, and you take the "engineer" part seriously, you should be quitting and blowing the whistle if that happens. If you just go along with it, then sure, you're not an engineer.
ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 2y
Dude, you're living in fantasy land if you're being serious. Engineers build all types of shoddy and dangerous crap just because they're being paid to do it. Most of weapons manufacturing is mech eng. Almost no one is gonna quit their job over some ethical dispute, even if it's costing lives.
agressivelyPassive@feddit.de · 1 pts · 2y
Sure, and go where else exactly?
The entire industry works on shipping duct taped products.
I do have my standards, but there's a point at which you have to say "it's good enough". If someone's at risk of dying or being harmed, yeah, that's a real problem. If the application keeps crashing and loses the business money, that's not my problem, I can only notify my superiors about my concerns.
rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 2y
That's why I said it depends. If a billion dollar company decides to cut costs even more to gain more and more profits, they hire an army of codemonkeys in India and that is what you get.
If you work at a mid sized company interested in sustainable growth, you might get a software engineering position where you are the business daddy and if you say "I won't deliver that untested" then it won't be delivered untested.
I'm working at a company in Germany and we are leading in our field. I have one boss and he listens to what I tell him because he doesn't have a clue about software engineering and that's what he hired me and my team for.
Look into Agile, servant leadership and new work (the real stuff and not the garbage "hip" companies want to make you believe) if you want to understand.
It's the old principles that kill companies like Boeing, because they think they can make big profits like it's 1984 solely by pumping money into an army of wage slaves.
agressivelyPassive@feddit.de · 0 pts · 2y
Look into "how a company works", because that directly works against anything you say.
Not that I disagree with your ambition, I would like to only ship tested code. But if you're working with deadlines and fixed budgets, that's often enough impossible. I can't even get a proper specification out of my clients, and even if they do, it'll change in a week. You can be as agile as you want, if money runs out, there's not much you can do.
ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 2y
Engineers put a lot of work into figuring out ways to sidestep their standards and ethics
AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social · 2 pts · 2y
Good ones don't.
Kindness@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 2y
A tau. Moral engineers don't sidestep their morals.
Socsa@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2y
But then it all circles back around. I have advanced degrees in (non software) engineering from actual top tier engineering schools and I should not be trusted to write production code. That's what software engineers are for.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2y
I disagree with that. I mean, I don't know how good you are at writing software, so maybe you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near production code. But, just because code is "production" doesn't mean it should exclusively be the domain of people who are "software engineers".
In my mind, software engineering involves implementing new algorithms that are from a computer science paper you just read, or architecting a big and complex system. Or, if there are lives on the line. I'd want people writing code for a new Space Shuttle to think of themselves as engineers, not just code monkeys.
But, a self-taught developer is fine to update production code for a web app as long as they write the correct tests and get it peer reviewed.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
I've been a programmer my whole career, but some years ago my then-employer gave me the actual title of "visionary". This caused me to immediately lose the respect of my coworkers, and after a few months it was obvious my employer was just preparing to get rid of me and replace me with H-1Bs.
elxeno@lemm.ee · 4 pts · 2y
You answer to this guy now
Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 2y
He should've just given himself the job title of "Linus"
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 2y
My doctor's digital prescription service has been ransomwared. It's been a few weeks, and they paid the millions of dollars in Bitcoin or whatever, but it's still encrypted and my doctor had to write me a prescription on paper.
The fact that a digital prescription service could have that happen is madness to me. The fact that they don't have offline backups for prescriptions is insane. Yes, they could have been in there for a while, encrypting everything, but if the company had tested its backups they'd have found out immediately.
All of these are things that wouldn't have happened if computing professions were held to standards.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 2y
Ok, sure. What standards? For fields like Civil Engineering it's pretty easy to come up with reasonable standards. But, if a software engineer is writing a generic key-value store, how do you evaluate whether that item meets the required standards?
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 2y
There are things that a developer can and should check to make sure his code is secure, but my focus is mainly on the systems and those can definitely be held to standards. Things like checking dependencies for known exploits, enforcing 2FA and TLS on all connections, encrypting data at rest, and testing backups, among a lot of other stuff.
I've worked with hundreds of organizations across many different industries in my career and almost none of them do all or even most of those, even if they need to be compliant for things like HIPAA or SOX. I once worked with an aerospace company whose sysadmin/webmaster/network guy was literally the founder's son, who got the job because he knew how to make a web page.
AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 2y
This is my opinion that is basically a compilation of the coworkers I've talked to about the subject.
Depends on the role. Passed senior level most prefer to be called engineers. Those are the people designing the whole system. Software developers are usually more mid level and figure out the specifics of how to design smaller sections of the system. They cut a lot of the detailed tickets and write a lot of infrastructure code.
Programmer is usually the juniors who never design much and just take tickets and turn them into code.
When I say senior, mid level, and junior, I'm referring more to the role that you're fulfilling that day, and not the overall skill level. Engineers will often step in as programmers for more complicated code.
We usually accept any of the terms though because it's very rare for someone to not jump between the various tasks depending on what the active project is. And at some companies they only hire seniors and they perform all roles.
TL;DR: Every software engineer is a developer and programmer, but not every developer is an engineer, and not every programmer is a developer or engineer.
expr@programming.dev · 4 pts · 2y
In my experience all terms are used pretty interchangeably (well, rarely programmer or coder, I guess), though I prefer software engineer.
AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 2y
I also prefer engineer but that's mostly just due to the complexity of my current role vs my old one.
Agent641@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
Whats it called when you know how to code, but you're shit at it, but you're still in charge of several much more experienced developers?
AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 2y
CTO ;)
iAvicenna@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 2y
data scientist
code monkey
alchemist
generic@iusearchlinux.fyi · 4 pts · 2y
Code money get up get coffee, code monkey go to job.
nelly_man@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 2y
I prefer Software Engineer, mostly because I studied at an engineering school and have a degree in Software Engineering. My actual titles have varied throughout my career, but I overall consider myself a software engineer.
7355608@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 2y
The Wizard
Denvil@lemmy.one · 5 pts · 2y
"Call me dickmaster"
progettarsi@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
what a cit.
UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev · 1 pts · 2y
Never thought the wizard installing my programs were an actual human.
psud@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 2y
Back in the days of MUDs, MOOs, and MUSHes (text mode multi user role playing games) we were wizards (if you could code enough to add to the game)
MUD - multi user dungeon MOO - MUD, object oriented MUSH - multi user shared hallucination
xmunk@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2y
Black Sabbath intensifies
dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 2y
I got told the difference between a software developer and an engineer is that an engineer factors in a products lifecycle and scalability and communicates this to their team and client
Thcdenton@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 2y
h a c k e r
Nomecks@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 2y
1337 H4x0r
tsonfeir@lemm.ee · 6 pts · 2y
Script kiddy.
Thcdenton@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
😞
whotookkarl@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2y
"Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?" -Shodan
Simon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 2y
Space wizard will do thanks
bruhduh@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 2y
DanForever@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 2y
I've set my role on my company's slack profile as "code connoisseur"
MimicJar@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 2y
A, A, A, A
(Hand clapping)
A, A, A, A
(Hand clapping intensifies)
A, A, A, A, A, A
(Techno beat drops)
lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 2y
to those wondering: https://youtu.be/XxbJw8PrIkc
Anticorp@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
So... much... cocaine
Why TF is he so covered in sweat? Was this filmed in Florida in July?
lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 2y
some people naturally sweat a lot.
MimicJar@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
Specifically https://youtu.be/KMU0tzLwhbE
Anticorp@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
So... Developers?
PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks · 0 pts · 2y
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/KMU0tzLwhbE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
SrTobi@feddit.de · 12 pts · 2y
I think "prompt engineer" is the best job title on multiple levels
heavy@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 2y
Employed
Zip2@feddit.uk · 11 pts · 2y
FluffyPotato@lemm.ee · 10 pts · 2y
I have rotated between countless titles over several decades. What I do hasn't really changed. Currently I'm not even aware what my official title is and when someone asks I usually say something along the lines of I make IT go but in my native language.
finkrat@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2y
Button pusher
Lon3star@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2y
"resource"
MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 2y
Ummm, keyboard jockey??? Code monkey??? can we get some respect here?
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org · 5 pts · 2y
Code slanger. Code wrangler. Software person.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 10 pts · 2y
A load of the devs at my original dotnet shop are still there, but are now called stuff like “Vice President Regional Director Lord Protector Master Technical Architect”. I suspect they’re all still writing VB.
wathek@discuss.online · 10 pts · 2y
You may call me Computer God. Or God for short if i deem it acceptable.
Socsa@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 2y
If they have a degree in engineering, then they are an engineer.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
Yeah, it’s weird to me as an engineer that when I’m on Lemmy people use that word to mean programmer. Nah, I work in a factory and had to learn thermodynamics
prime_number_314159@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 2y
In my mind, the line is that an engineer is someone that can commit a crime by doing their job incompetently. If the only things at risk are your job and your pride, that's a different thing.
"I program all day, so there's a lot of trial and error. My friend is a negligent civil engineer, so there's a lot of error and trial."
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
Ooh the EEs will haaaaaate that lol. I generally disagree with that statement but I also totally see it.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 2y
If you're an electrical engineer who works in a nuclear power plant and your incompetence leads to a meltdown, you're going to go on trial. Possibly also if you're doing software engineering for the control systems of that power plant.
If you're a software engineer who works on Lemmy, not so much.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
It’s always been weird to me as someone who isn’t an engineer in degree or title why those with degrees in engineering think people shouldn’t use an accurately descriptive word like engineer when it’s perfectly appropriate just because it’s a little to close to the title of their licensed profession.
Engineer is a verb, to devise or contrive something. Simply, to design a construct. A programmer by definition engineers a program and is therefore by the rules of the English language, an engineer.
They may not be a Licensed Professional Engineer, but an Engineer they remain.
MajorSauce@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 2y
Same here in Quebec (but I don't know if it's a Canada thing), the title of engineer is reserved to folks who completed an engineering degree.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2y
What if it's a degree in a field of engineering that's not related to software or hardware?
AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
A doctor of musical theory is still entitled Dr.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 2y
But, we're not talking about formal titles. We're talking about job titles. I've never heard of someone called "Engineer Jones", just "Mr. Jones who is an Engineer".
If you're a doctor of musical theory but you work in human resources as a clerk and someone asks you for your job title, you don't say "Doctor Clerk", you say "Clerk".
So, if you're trained as a Civil Engineer but you changed careers and are now writing javascript, are you a Software Engineer, whereas someone with a Computer Science degree can't claim that title?
Pulptastic@midwest.social · 2 pts · 2y
I draw the line at using just "Engineer". The word Engineer has baggage, it means something pretty specific already. If you engineer something other than physical structures you should list what that something is, like Software Engineer or Network Engineer.
Train Engineer is a bit confusing because they also have historical claim to "Engineer" but no longer have the same electrical and mechanical education afaik. Correct me if I'm wrong!
brlemworld@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
What if you have a degree in engineering but you are a surgeon?
DaleGribble88@programming.dev · 4 pts · 2y
Do you.... do you do rocket surgery?
Socsa@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 2y
I'd assume you would also have a degree in surgery
LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 2y
CopyPaster
Conyak@lemmy.tf · 9 pts · 2y
I would prefer that I was not referred to at all. Especially if you are a PM.
HowManyNimons@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 2y
I like Computer Programmer. No mistaking it. Developers are people who organise houses to be built. Engineers work on trains. Coders encrypt data. No matter what nonsense word salad it says on my email signature, when I'm at a barbecue I say I'm a computer programmer.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
When I'm in a particularly jaunty mood, I go with "software artist".
robocall@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Software artist reminds me of the sandwich artists at subway.
themusicman@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
So you're the guy who organises the computer literacy programmes in schools?
waz@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 2y
I usually say "I'm a computer toucher" or "computer programmer" if I don't want to talk about what I do. If I want to flex some nerd cred, and/or boast a little, I'll usually say "I work with machine automation" or "robotics". It tends to get a more curious response and I can talk about some of the weird stuff I've helped make.
Gork@lemm.ee · 14 pts · 2y
That sounds kinky
dan@upvote.au · 6 pts · 2y
My parents say I "do computers" and that's good enough for me.
a2part2@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 2y
My wife says either I'm in IT or I work with computers.
I just say problem solver.
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk · 9 pts · 2y
"Software craftsman"
spongeborgcubepants@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 2y
Code Artisan
xoggy@programming.dev · 4 pts · 2y
Bitsmith
nxdefiant@startrek.website · 5 pts · 2y
codesmith
allywilson@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 2y
I know a guy who just says he stacks shelves at Tesco as he cannot be bothred to explain 😂
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
I used to work for Cisco (the huge router etc. company) but my mom thought I was working for Sysco (the food services supply company). She was very surprised to learn that I had anything at all to do with computers.
DinosaurSr@programming.dev · 2 pts · 2y
Oh wow I just now realized they were two different companies. I thought it was just one really really diversified company 🤣
clif@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 2y
I like to call myself a codemonkey
gnutrino@programming.dev · 3 pts · 2y
Do you like Tab and Mountain Dew?
humbletightband@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 2y
I only want to be called darling. Or a filthy worm, depending on the situation
ed_cock@feddit.de · 8 pts · 2y
I hear the voice of the machine spirit!
Zink@programming.dev · 8 pts · 2y
I have always considered myself an engineer because I’m part of a multidisciplinary engineering organization designing a physical product that has embedded software. And “engineer” is the word at the end of my degrees, I guess.
But if somebody called me by any of those terms in the OP I would answer. And if somebody who works on an app or a video game calls themselves an engineer, it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.
My only conclusion is that we here, who spend our days specifying exactly what we want computers to do, are not so great specifying ourselves exactly.
MoonRaven@feddit.nl · 8 pts · 2y
Consultant
Scrollone@feddit.it · 2 pts · 2y
This is the correct answer, it includes everything a full stack dev might do
fidodo@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2y
Remember when they tried to make ninja, Rockstar, and guru a thing?
Anticorp@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
Microsoft still uses those phrases un-ironically all the time.
HowManyNimons@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Ow God I just cringed so hard I partly digested my skin. All those wacky Microsoft conferences. I've never felt so infantalised.
Deestan@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2y
At some jobs, I can get away with "Señor Developer" or "Computer Toucher". Those are the nice ones.
Otherwise it tends to be "Senior Software Engineer" that carries the least constricting baggage.
I SWEAR big company middle managers hear "developer" and they can only ever see you as an infant who without guidance would just keep coding some absolute random shit and not think about product, market, customers, integration, or prioritize their own work.
YaBoyMax@programming.dev · 7 pts · 2y
Idc, just please don't call me a coder, it makes me sound like I'm a script kiddy.
drathvedro@lemm.ee · 7 pts · 2y
The Intergalactic Ninja Sultan of Revenue Development
ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 2y
It depends who I'm talking to and where I live. Where I live, engineer is a protected title and requires certification/etc so that takes it out of the race. That leaves the other options. Generally I am a Web Developer to people my age or younger, to people older than me I am usually a Computer Programmer but also sometimes a Developer or Software Developer instead. Realistically, I am a Full Stack Website Developer.
Referring to my job doesn't get any easier even as someone in tech.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net · 7 pts · 2y
The Plague.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2y
I'm technically an aerospace engineer, but all I do is code most days. I think it depends highly on what you do, since my job also involves doing things not strictly coding related as well, I always slap the engineer title next to it. If you only code, then it's more appropriate to say software dev, or programmer. But, again its highly dependent on your role.
And as other people have mentioned, seems like outside the U.S. the term engineer is a protected title, so my take really only applies within the U.S.
I would say tho, a lot of programmers in the U.S. do get called software engineers. Just depends on where you go I guess.
Jrockwar@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 2y
I don't think what you study in your degree is the defining factor. Obviously this is country-specific but I feel you job title isn't always linked 1:1 to your title.
I studied Industrial Engineering, which in Spain exists as a degree but not as a job position. Position wise, I've been a mechanical design engineer, a manufacturing engineer, an automation engineer, robotics engineer, and these days I'm mostly a software engineer. I'm definitely specialised in engineering, regardless of the tools I'm applying to solve the task at hand.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
My title technically is aerospace engineer, but yeah I get what you mean.
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 2y
i can tell a programmer didn't write those questions because "code ninja" isn't one of the options
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 2y
IMO if they're not an educated Computer Engineer, or at a minimum have a math-focused degree, then calling them Engineers is more than a little generous.
Crackhappy@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2y
When people ask me what I do for a living I tell them that I furiously bang on a keyboard until the computer does what I want.
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 2y
It’s funny when I’m looking for work and people try to help me find jobs. I’ve been sent jobs for “coder” which turned out to be “medical code entry into EPIC” and architect because they saw another job with “software architect”.
Slotos@feddit.nl · 7 pts · 2y
If you push tickets - software developer at best.
If you iteratively solve problems by learning, building models, and trying hard to break said models until a sufficiently robust one remains - welcome to engineering.
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 2y
It'd love to be called not burdened with a completely unrealistic software development plan.
Restaldt@lemm.ee · 6 pts · 2y
Code whisperer
(Until i have to deal with legacy code. Then im usually screaming obscenities)
anarchyrabbit@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 2y
An Enthusiast Googler
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 2y
This is just factual.
Coldus12@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 2y
Yes, yes, Engineer is protected in a lot of spaces. Even here. That said the university programme I've attended was to make me into a "Sotware Engineer" not a "Developer". This university is a university for engineers. Obviously I don't have to requalify every year to remain an Engineer, but saying that I am not an Engineer is factually untrue.
I dont care about names but to be offended because it says Software Engineer on my resume is just dumb.
Also we design a lot of crucial systems. (Such as any RTOS, banking systems and so on and so forth)
savvywolf@pawb.social · 6 pts · 2y
Code Ninja Rockstar Wizard.
nexussapphire@lemm.ee · 6 pts · 2y
Engineer, most girls probably wouldn't think twice about software* but engineer has a ring to it. Like doctor.
naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 2y
monkey
Asudox@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 2y
Dev.
Johanno@feddit.de · 6 pts · 2y
"The computer guy" which is wrong in all ways but somehow correct
orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts · 5 pts · 2y
“Punching bag” is an appropriate title for how the field feels sometimes.
dan@upvote.au · 5 pts · 2y
"engineer" is different to "programmer". A programmer writes code, while an engineer does more than that, including system design and architecture.
soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz · -1 pts · 2y
A programmer can call themselves an engineer if they want. In my country there are no laws against it.
Therefore it doesn't matter what you call yourself.
sleeped@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2y
In Canada the term "Engineer" is a protected title that only registered professional engineers may use. Claiming to be an engineer without such credentials is considered equivalent to claiming to be a doctor of medicine; It constitutes fraud.
That being said, I see all the time employers and employees, seemingly ignorant to this law, post "Software Engineer" in job titles.
Registered professional engineers in the software development space is a rare occurrence.
rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 2y
There are many countries where there is a law against it. Maybe the USA isn't one of them.
dan@upvote.au · -1 pts · 2y
soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 2y
Call yourself whatever you want, I'm an astronaut on tuesdays
whoisearth@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 2y
My favourite for myself is garbage man. Shit rolls downhill so it always ends in my lap.
Another good one is fixer like the mob.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 2y
I like calling myself the "designated network Patsy"
crispy_kilt@feddit.de · 5 pts · 2y
I make computers do useful things.
shasta@lemm.ee · 5 pts · 2y
I think typically A, B, C, and F are acceptable to most people. I certainly wouldn't mind any of those descriptions. D feels antiquated. E is too broad. G just sounds like a hobbyist.
labsin@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2y
About D, you could also be programming robots, PLC's or thermostats 🤷♂️
shasta@lemm.ee · 2 pts · 2y
Yeah but the programming is done on a computer and then uploaded to that device. It's not specific enough of a term anymore. That's why it feels antiquated. Back in the 80s, most people didn't know enough about computers to know there were differences in different types of programming, and there were fewer types then too. These days you still don't need to be too specific unless you're discussing your role with someone else in the industry but still, if you just say you're a programmer now, pretty much everyone will know you mean it's computer programming.
db2@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2y
Computer code program development engineer, Esq.
Crow@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 2y
Good girl
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de · 5 pts · 2y
Yes
Ulvain@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 2y
Nah, nah, nah. You all got it wrong. There's one name and one name only: tech support.
Traegert@lemm.ee · 5 pts · 2y
The on-er off-er
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 2y
Not a programmer. I’m a net admin.
Actually my title is “Senior Network Architect”. I hate it. I feel like it detracts from real architects, who have licensure and actual training from an actual school.
I hate it as an architect, and I hated it as an “engineer”, for the same reason.
Yes, there’s a lot of complexity and planning, especially at larger scales. But it’s mostly self-taught, some webinars, and a lot of on-the-job (read: trial-by-fire) training.
When it comes to telling computers what to do, I have no idea what to call it. I write Python scripts and Ansible modules, I guess. That doesn’t make me any of those titles though. Some times I poor-mans deamonize my scripts (while true loop) and pack them in a container.
Using some of the same tools doesn’t make me any more of the same title.
pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 2y
Everyone who works on making software is a developer, even people who don’t program at all. people who make art for software work in software development. A “coder” only writes code. It’s more of a task than a job. A software engineer does technical design and probably also codes.
ramjambamalam@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 2y
At work they just call me: "Put those pens back and get outta here; you were fired weeks ago!"
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
Tech Priest Litanizer
Diplomjodler@feddit.de · 4 pts · 2y
Deputy assistant senior vice president software engineering manager
CaptPretentious@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
Code whispers
Quill7513@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 2y
More importantly which do potential employers want to see on my resume because they're shifty bastards always moving the goal posta around
force@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
software engineer (engineer for short), software developer (dev/developer for short), software designer (although that last one sounds weird). the job is a lot more than programming, depending on your position it can be mostly communication or mostly engineering or mostly something else entirely. maybe even mostly sitting on your ass all day!
waigl@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2y
As someone who is in tech… not sure, either.
KISSmyOS@feddit.de · 4 pts · 2y
My friends call me "Please fix my printer".
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 2y
Is "Sir" too much to ask for?
Forester@yiffit.net · 4 pts · 2y
Sorcerer of servers
JoYo@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 2y
I’ve had so many wacky job titles that at this point i dont care as long as i get paid.
icedcoffee@lemm.ee · 4 pts · 2y
If you call a dev a programmer and they don’t get huffy they are hands down one of the raddest people you’ll ever meet.
spizzat2@lemm.ee · 3 pts · 2y
taanegl@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 2y
Mr Tibbs
spamfajitas@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
My dad had the rare chance to name his position whatever he wanted, but the higher ups still rejected his choice of Grand Poobah.
bouh@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
I am an engineer. Most developers aren't though, unfortunately.
AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
I usually go by "fuck you". Like someone yells out of their cube "who's goddamn code is this?!?! Ah, fuck you"
Also codemancer
BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 2y
Bit Banger
or A,B,C,G
spongeborgcubepants@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Source Slapper
sarchar@programming.dev · 3 pts · 2y
Even in the trade myself for 30 years, I have nfc. Probably not Engineer (by itself) though.
BaardFigur@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
xoggy@programming.dev · 3 pts · 2y
And Computer Engineering is none of these.
greenskye@lemm.ee · 3 pts · 2y
I hate that they took away my analyst title. I'm not a software engineer dammit. I don't even have an IDE installed and haven't done any programming in 10+ years.
psud@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 2y
My designers are still systems analysis. The odd (scaled) agile jobs (PO, SM, RTE) are the difficult ones to explain to people outside the industry.
bitchkat@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
Chief bit twiddler
crispy_kilt@feddit.de · 3 pts · 2y
Serious question, not a native speaker: Why do people in the Anglosphere refer to mostly-software companies as tech companies, or to software developers as tech workers?
Cover_czar@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 2y
Software Author/ Author
Aggravationstation@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 2y
H. Daddy
GBU_28@lemm.ee · 3 pts · 2y
I'd prefer senior developer but HR calls me a senior engineer.
I personally believe if you are writing novel IP software you are engineering, if you are just connecting cloud tools or writing basic ETL stuff, that's developing.
I'm probably 40/60 eng/dev. And 200% meetings.
0x0@programming.dev · 2 pts · 2y
Digital archæologist. Bitshifter.
00x0xx@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Coder isn't a professional title. Software engineer and engineer are very broad of a term, because they can cover alot of work that's not directly coding software. Not all programmers write software code, some just 'program' software that's already written.
So i think developer is the best term for someone that 'develops' and write software code for a living. Or even software developer, those terms are interchangable.
shai_hulud@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Feces Fling Server Monkey, 2nd class.
AeonFelis@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
"coder-codewriter"
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
"Software Development Engineer"
OozingPositron@feddit.cl · 2 pts · 2y
If you call them engineers I'm going to engineer your femur into two pieces.
klisurovi4@midwest.social · 2 pts · 2y
I am partial to "code monkey"
On a serious note, I usually refer to myself as a developer or a software engineer when I wanna sound a bit more important.
kaffiene@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
I use software engineer but whatevs they're all good.
hddsx@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 2y
Light Monkey
deweydecibel@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Not only does this meme ignore the fact there's only 4 choices in Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, it doesn't even do an even number of them leaving it annoyingly lopsided
webghost0101@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 2y
Should have gone with something like “HaxorMaster1447”
moon@lemmy.cafe · 1 pts · 2y
MtF Trans
banneryear1868@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
Code Sherpa
Anticorp@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
RICH!
namelivia@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2y
I just say IT
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Generally speaking software development is not a part of IT.
namelivia@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
I'd say in English there is more of a difference, in my native language the term is more blurry I'd say, for a random person it just sounds as "computers", and to most people that's all they care about.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2y
In English that more general word for the entire industry is “tech”. Thats the closest comparison to just using the word “computers”.
namelivia@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y
Ah true, thank you! Then it is tech what I say
bitchkat@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y
Gross. IT to me is a support role, not the reason for the company's existence.
DaleGribble88@programming.dev · 2 pts · 2y
From someone who transitioned from operations to development over the course of their admittedly short career, this is a poor mindset. Much like how you shouldn't disrespect a janitor or a nurse, you shouldn't say "gross" about IT work.
IT may not be the reason for the company's existence, but it is what allows it. The company may not exist without you, but you don't exist without IT.
I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 2y
As a Mechanical Engineer, a massive fuck you to everyone who calls software development, programming, or network management a form of "engineering". Do you know how much extra work is now needed to filter out job postings when you're looking for an ACTUAL engineering position?
Ok, not a ton of extra work, but it's still really good damn annoying when 2 out of 3 posts are actually for developers. You guys belong in the T in STEM, not the E. Stay in your fucking lane!
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 2y
That sounds difficult.
You know, I bet a software engineer could write up something to help with it!
Windex007@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2y
As a mechanical engineer turned software developer, I do consider the task to be fundamentally an engineering task.
It's just that the willingness to forgive ineptitude in software is infinitely greater... So much so that the industry has completely normalized absolute garbage work.
It's engineering, just with systemically terrible engineers.
hddsx@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 2y
As someone who is a software engineer and got a degree in computer engineering…
There’s a difference between a software engineer and a software developer. As a software engineer, I am horrified by the “engineers” I work with.
Assman@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 2y
Considering how poorly described the vast majority of software jobs are listed, I really can't feel sorry for you lol
Just try searching "front end [insert your preferred title]" and see how many jobs are actually just frontend.
Gork@lemm.ee · 1 pts · 2y
This is terrible for people with the title of Loader.
Assman@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 2y
I shit you not I have seen a job listing for forklift driver while looking for software jobs