Or the making fun of the disabled news reporter. Or the not renting to black people, or the using a charity as his personal piggy bank. I'm sure the list goes on and on
Honestly the racism I (sadly) understand. But to see the support for him not only continue but increase after violently trying to overthrow the government was truly a shock. For a brief moment it looked like he lost the support of Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham among other "traditional" Republicans but within days it was back to business as usual.
The people we are talking about are seeking simple answers, because they are overwhelmed by the complexity of our times. A strong man telling them what to think, an autocrat telling them that elections are unnecessary ballast, a führer telling them who to hate. Someone who leads them by their emotions, not by their intellect. The less educated the people are, the better this works, because the educated and those who have been in contact with other cultures know better than to fall for the simple path that demonizes an outgroup - they know it's not a solution. The US education system has been under attack for a long time, while the economy did their best to modify higher education to their needs, warping higher education from something which offers critical thinking skills to a conveyor belt feeding the industry.
I agree with all you said, but I also think that "complexity of our times" is whitewashing what I would describe as an "intentionally stressful situation forced upon working class people by the wealthy".
I believe that humanity has the technology and resources to make our times feel quite simple!
For the average person life is overwhelmingly more complex than 200 years ago. Industrialization and Globalization have created a whole host of issues that simply didn't exist before - stuff like climate change and awareness of global issues weren't a thing before, and there is a lot more pressure due to the increased complexity of our societies.
An average villager didn't have to care about things like ethical consumption or conflicts half a globe away, our family networks were a lot larger and individualism lead to a much less homogeneous society than before. Even the reach of the wealthy was a lot more limited and the messaging was a lot simpler - you had to care about the local nobility, and we weren't bombarded with the huge amount of information that technology has brought to our doorsteps. Propaganda was a lot less pervasive before the creation of mass media.
Conflicts and issues were a lot more concrete and clear-cut than they are today, because the average person was a lot more rooted in a slowly changing environment. Especially technology has created the exact opposite of what you are postulating.
Climate change is actually a great example of what I was getting at, because it has a relatively simple and known solution, and humanity has possessed the technology to implement that solution it for essentially as long as we have known about climate change itself.
To put it in context of this conversation: climate change has only increased the "complexity of our times" for working class people, because the people with power and money chose this path. They could have been building windmills, and nuclear power plants and hydroelectric dams to power our electric cars, but there was less profit in that.
The mental stress of "ethical consumption" doesn't exist in a world of ethical production.
Because he wins elections. Once he dies and no Trump Jr. can get the same number of votes, they will turn their backs on the Trumps and denounce them.
I am telling you. This all falls apart without the one guy. Just you watch.
the question is will the gop fall apart with him, most of the OLD guard republicans are gone, or neutered. i doubt putin will stop the propaganda for right wing on social media though.
My conspiracy theory is that the Epstein stuff staying on the front pages of social media for long (despite tech CEOs all being strongly MAGA) was an attempt by the Peter Theil / Russel Vought faction to move on from Trump. Which if you think about it is even scarier if they feel they don't need him any more.
mitch and lindsey lost control of trump, and jumped shipped after that. mitch was afraid of getting continually be the blame by the magas, so he had another patsy take his place, HE uses "his freezes" to avoid talking about anything.
I love how people in the fediverse have a finger ready to wag at all times. People like you cannot wait to go off half cocked and judge something incorrectly as long as it makes you feel morally superior.
Of course everybody with two functioning brain cells knew from the start that this fucker is spectacularly unqualified. But when this came out, it was very plain to see for everybody that all the values "conservatives" claimed to stand for meant absolutely nothing to him.
After the 'pussy' tape came out, a Conservative woman went on The View TV show to defend Trump. One of the other women on the panel kept repeating 'pussy' over and over. Finally the Conservative woman demand that the other panelist stop using that vulgar term.
I disagree (with the title but agree with you the post), Jan 6th should truly be the dealbreaker. Why? Cause it’s not even politics, it’s simple rules of games.
If you can’t accept when you lose, you don’t get to play anymore.
They had 4 years to jail him over treason and they didn’t. I said it before and I’ll say it again, Biden should have jailed him for Jan 6th.
Biden should have used the bully pulpit and pushed hard to prosecute. Merrick Garland is technically the one who sat on his ass for 2 years before getting started, which is how Trump was able to delay through the election then throw out his own cases.
Based on the strong bipartisan coverup of the Epstein Files, clearly there are reasons Biden’s donors didn’t want to prosecute one of “their own.” So they didn’t, because the people don’t get represented in America, only capital owners do.
Biden should have had him and the rest of the isurrectionists executed for trying to overthrow throw democracy. Jailing them just changes their platform for inciting rebellion.
The only reason the Jan 6th rioters got in the Capitol is because Donald Trump specifically chose not to call in the National Guard to protect the Capitol. If MAGA had attempted a second insurrection when Trump was jailed and Biden was in office, they wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
This is the kinda stuff I laughed about pre-last election when MAGA was calling for civil war if Kamala won. It's not funny now, but the truth remains. An outright seizure of the Capitol/White House/SCotUS is nigh impossible unless our leader wants it. Now, the Jan 6th crowd was exceptionally stupid in not even being able to navigate the Capitol floor; but navigation abilities won't matter when you get gunned down approaching the entrance.
also racism, they have to be careful around White people who are committing crimes too, without angering white voter base in general. alot of them pretend to be on the left, but act very wierdly around POCs.
It is what they plan for the rest of us. Fascism has always been a sort of "blindly obey the leader or die" sort of thing.
The second major problem is that a whole bunch of people are then killed, first for being the wrong ethnicity, or killed for having the wrong beliefs, or maybe you just live on land that some rich asshole wants to steal. These people will never even be given a chance to "obey" but will likely be told that they are being killed for disobedience. Or someone will be told.
And the lie will be believed, because it will be convenient to do so.
I'll never understand how Biden just let that go. He should have made it impossible for Trump or any of the other criminals from the previous administration to participate in politics again.
We do agree. It’s just like I said, I am not sure what mechanism he could use exactly to do this. Presidents don’t just declare people traitors and criminals and jail them. If they could, Trump would have the entire Democratic Party in the slammer. There might have been more Biden could do, I just don’t know exactly what. And you don’t seem to either.
He waited almost two years to take any action on this because he didn't want to look like it was a political attack but trump was going to play that card either way. If he had told them to start working from day one this wouldn't be happening. There was plenty he could have done but he was too wrapped up in the old system of traditions to understand that things have changed.
The supreme court literally said that anything the president does is legal as long as it's an offical act. He should have done whatever needed to be done. Regardless of the law. If people had problems with it we could have dealt with him after the fact and revised whatever laws needed to be revised. He's old as shit anyway so had nothing to lose. Instead he sat on his hands and allowed Trump to regain power leaving us to deal with the consequences while he will be dead before long anyway.
Why would people think it was a big deal when the entire news media played it down, and then the guy who did it was allowed to run for the highest political office again.
Yup, the Republican party allowed Trump to go after the nomination, and his Republican opponents in the primaries never brought Jan 6 up for the disgusting act it was. Instead they all protected Trump by repeating the Big Lie.
Imagine Fox News right now, if Jan 6 had been Democrats and Obama. Seriously, they would be screaming for the dismantling of the Democratic party.
And that's the difference, the Left has NOTHING like Fox News and Newsmax, MSNBC doesn't even get CLOSE.
the closest thing to a left wing on TV at least, is DEMocracy now. and its not even that left, plus its also on late night where nobody else watches it.
every other one is center right or right wing, that glorfies the military to keep up enlistment numbers. movies and shows: copaganda, and right-wing ganda helps too.
i noticed its coordinated with right wing influencers/grifters also downplayed or dint bother discussing the insurrection. its not by accident its all coordinated through troll farms.
It's the moderates and centrists that worry me. I know he had a laundry list of deal breakers. But after Jan 6th, he should have lost every sliver of support from anyone who doesn't support treason.
The problem is that he did, in that moment, and then media and people walked it back and minimized it for 3.5 years until by the time everyone voted again, well, he didn't go to prison so maybe they made it up or it wasn't so bad? See also: his felonies were "political".
Truth is that most Americans are so busy living or surviving that they don't go learn or seek out different views to become more well-rounded. Propaganda works.
I don't understand why AIPAC, Citizens United, exorbitant health care and education costs, tax rates for the rich, slavery in prisons, and every other goddamned ridiculous thing that other first world countries don't have wasn't a deal breaker.
While I agree, what would it mean for these to be "dealbreakers"?
Bill Clinton gave tax rates for the rich, but he didn't run on that -- he ran on expanding the Middle Class. Barack Obama ran on a platform of fixing healthcare, and he sorta did. Citizens United v FEC was decided in 2010. The next election, Bernie Sanders' common-sense social safety nets were wildly popular among Democats and purple state voters -- not enough to beat the entire Democratic line-up that gave their delegates to Hillary Clinton, but still very popular.
On the debate stage, Donald Trump called out the same ridiculous Republican warmongering and perils of the USAmerican people that Bernie called out. In doing so, Trump sweeped out Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, and every other preferred neo-conservative candidate -- while being a billionaire rapist fraudster who owned a gold-plated apartment. Trump continued that diagonalization campaign strategy in 2024, to great success. He's naming real issues, and rallying up support with it, because people are exactly as fed up as you presume they should be. This is why MAGA voters are so aggressive. This is what the Jan 6th insurrectionists thought they were fighting for.
While I curse out the generation before me who allowed this country to get this way, I can't really say what they should have done differently. It's not like there weren't massive anti-war protests. It's not like the USA populace wanted to be deployed in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Iran. Bush hid the facts. It's not like people want these massive medical costs and unreasonable student loans... but what do we do? Changes were being teased in Congress; there was hope in the Supreme Court; presidential campaigns promised prosperity and ease, and USAmericans clung to that hope.
So did we sleepwalk through it all? Yes -- But I don't see how people could have been persuaded differently with anything short of foresight of exactly this reality of the year 2025. Reformists aren't going to burn down the Capitol when Congress is debating Medicare For All, even if it's the 40th year debating this issue; even after the vote fails.
You touched on it; Citizens United. Change that and we're back to a coherent timeline.
I also think the consolidation of media outlets into massive billionaire-controlled mouthpieces of industry alongside with Cambridge Analytica opening the flood gates on social medianl propagandization were crucial, but Citizens United will always be the death of the USA for me; it just took a few years for the corpse to start really stinking up the place.
I think we can only make more laws and regulations against it moving forward. High school requirements on media literacy and propaganda to graduate. Also, mandatory elections after 30 days of shutdowns. Laws that no votes in a state can be counted until every able voter has cast a ballot. Term limits. Taxes higher as income increases. Assets can't be hidden as corporate property. Billionaires taxed out of existence. We just have to prevent more shit like it happening again.
I'm not inclined to agree with "most", but the idiot:not-idiot ratio in society is way higher than I'm comfortable with. It's almost enough to make the question the wisdom of putting so many people on the road, driving their own cars.
The part that really shook me is when I talked to enough people to figure out that stupidity isn't always obvious. A person can speak well, be exposed to a lot of different news sources, have ample access to information, graduate from a decent school, and still be a total moron when it comes to a lot of things. Like functional illiteracy, grown adults learn how to cope and mask in ways that are shockingly good, considering they cover for huge deficits at the same time.
They don’t want to think. At all. Just listen to what they’re told by fox or Facebook and get comfort in hating some group(s) “ worse than them “ while they believe they’re better than most people. They’re fully delusional.
Nah, worse than that. The root of the conservative pathology is self-hatred. They fear that they are worthless, shit people. A person who believes that they are better than everybody else can sit smugly in the corner and be superior in peace. Conservatives need near-constant reassurance that other people are worse than themselves, hence the performative cruelty they crave.
They are also too cowardly to live freely, so they end up hating actual freedom and those that enjoy it because they hate themselves for allowing their freedom to be robbed by their ideology.
They are terminally uncurious. Explaining to his cult individually that he has said things himself they can listen to is baffling to them. They only hear it through their filter of choice.
I think you are giving them far too much credit. Just as there are short people and tall people and skinny and fat, there are people that don't have a lot going on upstairs. When I heard that 50% of people don't have an inner monologue I was astounded. I thought it not to be true. That someone had to have fucked up. Seeing all this play out, it makes way more sense.
The idea that death is an acceptable outcome from being suspected of any minor infraction underpins the conversation around basically every police killing, with every single person on the side justifying it being tacitly accepting of that premise.
A few years after 9-11 for me. I grew up watching my classmates sing songs about indiscriminately bombing people in Afghanistan, and news reports of people being beaten or killed in the US for wearing any clothing that appeared Middle-Eastern. It made me sick to my stomach.
My take on Charlie and similar killings is that we're in a war, and war is never nice. I don't believe anyone should be assassinated, but I also don't believe we're playing by the rules of civility when we have hundreds of people being disappeared every day by masked agents on our street; and the government is tweeting out Nazi propaganda.
The second I saw he was running the first time, I knew it was going to be a disaster. Maybe I couldn't appreciate just how much of a disaster it would be though
-My conservative mother, pretending Trump didn't work tirelessly for years enraging them, tell them to do exactly what they did, and then gleefully watch for 2 hours while they did it.
In other words, she thinks trump had nothing to do with it, as laughable as that is.
Until my final breath I'll never understand how George W. Bush wasn't a dealbreaker for every future Republican president. And then they voted for Trump of all people.
He kind of was in a way. The 2016 primary featured a dozen Bush wannabes, and Trump just went on stage and embarrassed them all by pointing out all the things they did horribly wrong (war, healthcare, etc), he correctly identified what made Republicans unelectable nationally. People related to that anger.
That's one of the most frustrating things about this right wing populism. They're correctly pointing out problems: wealth inequality, expensive housing, warmongering, etc. The problem they then cause is that they blame the source of these problems squarely on some scapegoats and then do things that only exacerbate the existing problems they diagnosed in the first place.
Billionaire donors gaining even more power and stripping the few checks against said power, doing shit all to make groceries cheaper, and now they're out there blowing up boats in international waters and committing large scale violence against people in this county. Yet... crickets from the folks who voted them in. Just maddening. They just wanted to shit on the scapegoats
I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it, If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you. – Lyndon B. Johnson, attributed by Bill Moyers
it isnt because evangelicals are afraid of losing thier influence in government, plus thier hold on the US, and oppression of POCs and lgbtq+ people, and are afraid of retribution and reprisal from the latter 2 groups.
If you pour enough money/resources into anyone, you can get them to win an election. Trump was just the easiest one to pour money into: he's easily swayed, even more easily bought, and has a certain... shudders charisma (?) that makes him more electable than a rando mild conservative.
What you're witnessing here is just capitalism. People with a lot of money and power wanted to gain even more money and power. Trump a convenient vehicle for that. So they poured money into his campaign and he won.
It's a good reason to consider sortition, or a system that distributes power so that it's super diffuse.
An example would be abolition of SCOTUS: Instead we create a special court for each individual case, pulling nine judges at random from the Appeals districts. That way, no Supreme Court justice can be owned the way Thomas and Alito are -- or one can, but they're not likely to get on all the cases a billionaire deems important.
I thought I understood this as a Canadian until this current World Series. "My team good, your team bad." Then I saw comments from the fanbases of the teams that the Blue Jays faced, and now I understand that people are absolutely deranged. Calling for violence for opposing players for daring to face their team? Yikes.
And this is literally just a game. It doesn't actually have a bearing on people's lives in the long term. (Except the actual teams, I guess.) No wonder American politics is the way it is. Unfortunately, parts of Canada are trying to emulate this here, too.
There's something going on for sure. For many years, we were able to have sports without death threats.
I suspect it has something to do with the current attempts to manipulate people. We have news and politicians trying to pit us against each other and calling for violence against non-violent people. It's the Jose took your lunch kind of thing, and the conditioning feels like it's running rampant.
I worry about Canada; I don't think your people are emulating it. I think they're being influenced and are the next target.
I'm awfully tired of unprecedented times, but I fear we're setting the new bar for precedent.
All propaganda channels that literally only publish lies. Fox news sued (and won) for the right to call itself a news channel yet lie their asses off without any legal problems
I'm just amazed that nobody saw this coming since at least 2-3 decades ago
O saw fox news for the first time and was like WTF, how can this be real and allowed? Then I gave it slightly more thought and you see how this is useful to make people for politicians that work against their best interests. You then see that happen, you see each next Republican presidential candidate be dumber and dumber and greedier. You see the US economy always in shambles after a Republican president, yet people keep voting for them because....
And you see this going in a certain direction.
This was a good 30 years ago.
Why are there so few people like us that didn't see this coming from miles away?
It's because the Democrats didn't inflict any consequences on Republicans and used the "let's look to the future and not dwell on the past" framing on it. How can you blame voters for not taking it seriously if Democrats didn't?
You're speaking of long after Jan 6th occurred. The OP post is talking about on that day. As in, "how did those that would actually stand to benefit become willing to benefit at the cost of following the rule of law?" The disappointing answer is that those performing the insurrection on Jan 6th, as well as those that would stand to gain, are more concerned with being in power rather than respecting justice and the rule of law.
The disappointing answer is that those performing the insurrection on Jan 6th, as well as those that would stand to gain, are more concerned with being in power rather than respecting justice and the rule of law.
Yes you nailed it. Kamala recently expressed sadness at the level of capitulation, saying she didn't expect it. A lot of us had a rude awakening in the days after J6 when we realized that lot of our fellow citizens did not take the lessons on democracy taught to us since grade school to heart.
alot of the dnc are Dinos, republicans that cant get elected from the right, so they have to pretend to be Dems on some issues, but republicans on most other ones. why we get people like schumer, jefferies, fetterman
This chart is the whole story. Unfortunately people don't understand how the economy lags behind everything and Trumps recent actions are going to make the surge from COVID checks look like a blip.
There’s no one in the party that knows how to fix any of the problems they continue to create. Like forgiving college loans, but not changing the incentives to raise college prices. They could have allowed student loans to default, anything really. No one’s suggesting real change, just hand outs and corporate marauding.
The voting base went right along with this, “ ya forgive my loan, but leave the exploitative system for my children. “ that’s politics, fix my immediate grievances and pay no mind to the future or bad structures we build
Well you can forgive loans with executive orders, I don't think you can change the system without an act of Congress. Our legislature is no longer functioning, it's been locked in a cold civil war since at least Trump, maybe as far back as 08.
They agreed on bailing out the banks in 08, which is why I picked that year. Then the tea party movement pushed us into a deadlock and we've been there ever since.
Joe Biden isn’t supposed to fix anything, Congress legislates, and the president executes the laws. Your Congress hasn’t represented you in 40 years and you expect the president to fix it in 4? That’s what trumps doing with this unitary executive king shit 🤣 Horseshoe theory strikes again
It's not about the President, but it is about the party, and the President is also the head of the party. Biden was also the party establishment candidate that they ran against Bernie specifically to kneecap any chance at actual reform. So no, he doesn't get a pass for the results, just because he was only the President. Look what only President Trump can do.
I mean no one would have consented to Biden breaking all the constitutional norms of the country, nor was there any popular policy to push. There was a lot of resistance to Biden from both parties. Judge him how you will, I’m not here to defend his honor or convince you of my opinion of Biden. I just wanted to express my frustration. How both sides want their presidents to act like Congress, while Congress constantly gets a free pass for fuck ups. It makes no sense to vote in an establishment congress and expect the president to make changes.
Question… didn’t congress attempt to impeach trump several times and then have a January 6th committee? They then handed their findings to the justice department who took forever to bring up charges. 18 months in total before special counsel jack smith started his own investigation. So I mostly blame the justice department for delaying so much. Namely Merrick Garland doing fuck all when they had trumps ass for launching a terrorist attack on our nations capitol. Brazil moved super fast and now Bolsonaro is fucked and won’t be launching another assault any time soon.
Four years of the Biden Presidency came and went in which someone could be completely forgiven for forgetting who was sitting in the office. There was absolutely zero political or social leadership coming from the Biden Presidency. None. That was half by design, and half because he was too far gone to be in front of the American people that much.
He was a capable administrator, and under his presidency the liberal oligarchy did choose to make some concessions, and I think he had something to do with that. He had a capable and competent cabinet. But, he was chosen for the role specifically to stall any further continuation of progressive momentum.
EDIT: I forgot to add that permission comes for breaking the norms by creating a movement that demands the breaking of those norms. That's specifically what the Biden Presidency was designed not to do.
I agree with that sentiment. No one really cares but me; but Biden did a lot to repair the broken ties internationally from the first trump admin. I just don’t know why everyone expected Biden to break norms: he followed the norms for his entire political career which stretched 50 years.
Do you think there was a unifying call from within America that he was ignoring? It seems like everyone loves this fucking oligarchy or doesn’t really care about it. No one was begging Biden to stop the oligarchy.
People still think Elon musk is a brilliant visionary. I don’t think he has more opposition than support.
Dude, the only unifying call that they actually asked of Biden was to step down due to his age. He did and now America is great again. He really was a populist.
Trump had more influence over the United States Congress and Zeitgeist than Biden did while Biden was President, and that's a fact. That's also the reason WHY he now has Congress.
Yeah when the SC gives the President immunity for overstepping while he's in office? You're damn straight he should have done more. To quote Trae Crowder, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to win, motherfucker?"
That’s a fair criticism, and I share it with ya. The executive branch should have gone a lot further with the power they did have. They let appearances get in the way of justice and democracy again! I’m starting to think there’s a pattern with that behavior
It's because every time until the NEXT one they were hindered into the process by the "bad" others. So you see, it's once again time to remove others who are preventing success.
Well the answer to "why did people still support Trump after Jan 6th" is actually "Jan 6th."
Those people that came to DC and walked to the Capitol and stormed out are Americans who were a) pissed off and b) willing and able to travel and march and attack on behalf of Trump.
That's not nothing in terms of power and influence. And it's indicative of a BUNCH of people who met condition (a) but not (b). Like probably an order of magnitude or more.
Since no Republican stepped up to steal those supporters from Trump by pointing out how absolutely un-American Jan 6th was, they stayed loyal to him. So the politicians followed, the owners followed, and the media followed.
I think a lot of that is because they want to believe it. It's confirmation bias exacerbated by using only news sources who are motivated to lie to them because billionaires don't want to pay taxes or fair wages.
The current president is a culmination .... a celebration ... of the general dumbing down of the American public.
They spent the past 50 years just generally deluding themselves to the point where stupidity, complacency and ignorance is just celebrated and rewarded.
It's a nation of idiots .... a nation of idiots with nuclear weapons.
Trump was the perfect storm. Everybody that held some form of bigotry could see themselves in him. Because how could he be a bad person if they weren’t a bad person.
Because so many Americans hate America and what it stands for. They hate anyone who isn't like them, and they like that it bothers you. They enjoy your frustration and your confusion, because it gives them a feeling of power they would otherwise never experience on their own merits.
A Trump voter from 2016 told me that he thought of Trump as a brick he was throwing at the window of The System. He started from the position that the system is broken and needs to be torn down before anything can be improved. I think that’s pretty stupid logic - people routinely underestimate the importance of incremental improvement.
But that’s what the thinking is anyway. The more we hate Trump the happier they are. He exists to knock our teeth out, personally if need be, but more importantly, collectively, as a system. Taking a shit on the floor of Congress? That’s all in the game.
This is the one I've heard. By my own father, no less. I had no idea how to respond to it.
Someone once said, "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into." Something along those lines, anyways. That expression has saved me from many a pointless argument.
Voters saw January 6th and were like "I'm gonna stay home because voting doesn't matter or I'm too busy and lazy to defend rights and democracy".
Voters also see Trump and are so stupid to think that he was gonna make their economic life better. SleePy JoE diD tHaT! jOeVeR
Single Issue voters are just absolutely f**king stupid.
Media also sanewashed RFK and Trump again. The cult will always vote for their candidate. The normal people need a "reason" to take action. People love blaming Kamala for not beating the "oh-so-easy" Trump but they wouldn't move their worthless asses to vote anyways.
Because sadly, the attitudes and views of people making up Jan 6 are shared by a large proportion of the US population, even if they would not have participated given the means/opportunity.
Jan 6 is viewed by them with analogous sentiment to how the left views civil disobedience for civil rights movements, regardless of the substance/justice of the event.
Oh, I don't hate Trump. It's just that he reminds me of the guy that sexually abused me when I was 11 years old. Same body build, same voice, same hair, same complexion...WAIT A MINUTE!
He defeated every Republican rival and took control of the GOP through the voters. Even if he cheated, which he did, him having support of even 40% still proves he understands the American voter in a way few do.
I'm not sure. You may be giving him credit that belongs to Roger Stone, but in essence I don't think you're wrong about the zeitgeist that he's latched onto.
I guess in all likelihood, it's that, plus the cheating, and without both he wouldn't have won.
It all feels very inorganic to me though. Astroturfed, especially this second time.
It doesn't matter though. Probably the last president.
It's a mix of hyperbolic and ridiculing language. Of course it's not correct.
We have way more complex social systems than the smartest of non-human apes, we are way more regulated, since our survival hasn't been based on raw dominance for like thousands of years, if not more. And so on.
I sometimes wonder if mikey getting into that car would have been enough of a shock to cause the justice system to do just about anything, or if they would have found a way to make even that an event mild enough to sweep under the rug.
Same way Liberals voting for a candidate actively enabling a genocide. Their side is also full of "you're not helping our electoral chance" politics.
If you can't understand how January 6th wasn't a deal breaker; but you also expect a genocide to NOT be a deal breaker at the same time. I have little hope for you to understand what is going on today and even how we got to this point.
The weird part is people expect MAGA to have moral lines; but if you're a leftist that can't exist. You have to listen to our "lesser evil" argument.
Edit: Lots of downvotes but not one person ready to reply and explain why January 6th should be a deal breaker while a genocide should not. I'll wait...
204 Comments
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 191 pts · 294d
If the pussy grabbing thing wasn't, nothing ever will be.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 154 pts · 294d
Or the making fun of the disabled news reporter. Or the not renting to black people, or the using a charity as his personal piggy bank. I'm sure the list goes on and on
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 85 pts · 294d
Or trying to have 5 young brown children executed for a crime they were later proven to have not committed.
Kirk@startrek.website · 45 pts · 294d
Honestly the racism I (sadly) understand. But to see the support for him not only continue but increase after violently trying to overthrow the government was truly a shock. For a brief moment it looked like he lost the support of Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham among other "traditional" Republicans but within days it was back to business as usual.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 7 pts · 294d
The people we are talking about are seeking simple answers, because they are overwhelmed by the complexity of our times. A strong man telling them what to think, an autocrat telling them that elections are unnecessary ballast, a führer telling them who to hate. Someone who leads them by their emotions, not by their intellect. The less educated the people are, the better this works, because the educated and those who have been in contact with other cultures know better than to fall for the simple path that demonizes an outgroup - they know it's not a solution. The US education system has been under attack for a long time, while the economy did their best to modify higher education to their needs, warping higher education from something which offers critical thinking skills to a conveyor belt feeding the industry.
Kirk@startrek.website · 4 pts · 294d
I agree with all you said, but I also think that "complexity of our times" is whitewashing what I would describe as an "intentionally stressful situation forced upon working class people by the wealthy".
I believe that humanity has the technology and resources to make our times feel quite simple!
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 1 pts · 293d
For the average person life is overwhelmingly more complex than 200 years ago. Industrialization and Globalization have created a whole host of issues that simply didn't exist before - stuff like climate change and awareness of global issues weren't a thing before, and there is a lot more pressure due to the increased complexity of our societies.
An average villager didn't have to care about things like ethical consumption or conflicts half a globe away, our family networks were a lot larger and individualism lead to a much less homogeneous society than before. Even the reach of the wealthy was a lot more limited and the messaging was a lot simpler - you had to care about the local nobility, and we weren't bombarded with the huge amount of information that technology has brought to our doorsteps. Propaganda was a lot less pervasive before the creation of mass media.
Conflicts and issues were a lot more concrete and clear-cut than they are today, because the average person was a lot more rooted in a slowly changing environment. Especially technology has created the exact opposite of what you are postulating.
Kirk@startrek.website · 2 pts · 293d
Climate change is actually a great example of what I was getting at, because it has a relatively simple and known solution, and humanity has possessed the technology to implement that solution it for essentially as long as we have known about climate change itself.
To put it in context of this conversation: climate change has only increased the "complexity of our times" for working class people, because the people with power and money chose this path. They could have been building windmills, and nuclear power plants and hydroelectric dams to power our electric cars, but there was less profit in that.
The mental stress of "ethical consumption" doesn't exist in a world of ethical production.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 7 pts · 294d
Because he wins elections. Once he dies and no Trump Jr. can get the same number of votes, they will turn their backs on the Trumps and denounce them.
I am telling you. This all falls apart without the one guy. Just you watch.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 294d
the question is will the gop fall apart with him, most of the OLD guard republicans are gone, or neutered. i doubt putin will stop the propaganda for right wing on social media though.
Kirk@startrek.website · 2 pts · 294d
Sadly, I don't think it will soon even matter if the leader is unpopular.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 293d
vance is nothing more than wet noodle, he wont capture the maga, thiel thinks he can reign in maga through vance.
Kirk@startrek.website · 2 pts · 294d
My conspiracy theory is that the Epstein stuff staying on the front pages of social media for long (despite tech CEOs all being strongly MAGA) was an attempt by the Peter Theil / Russel Vought faction to move on from Trump. Which if you think about it is even scarier if they feel they don't need him any more.
saimen@feddit.org · 1 pts · 294d
Only if there still will be elections when he dies...
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 294d
mitch and lindsey lost control of trump, and jumped shipped after that. mitch was afraid of getting continually be the blame by the magas, so he had another patsy take his place, HE uses "his freezes" to avoid talking about anything.
aaaa@piefed.world · -5 pts · 294d
You can excuse the racism?
logi@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 294d
Not my comment, but "understand" is not "excuse".
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 294d
I love how people in the fediverse have a finger ready to wag at all times. People like you cannot wait to go off half cocked and judge something incorrectly as long as it makes you feel morally superior.
aaaa@piefed.world · 6 pts · 294d
It's just a reference from Community, it's not even a serious comment.
But it's okay, it was ambiguous enough that people don't pick up on that right away
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 294d
Apologies. Yes, I didn't get the reference.
KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 294d
Trump's Full Page Newspaper Ad
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 294d
Yes, exactly what I am referring to
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 294d
Of course everybody with two functioning brain cells knew from the start that this fucker is spectacularly unqualified. But when this came out, it was very plain to see for everybody that all the values "conservatives" claimed to stand for meant absolutely nothing to him.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 58 pts · 294d
I've repeated this many times.
After the 'pussy' tape came out, a Conservative woman went on The View TV show to defend Trump. One of the other women on the panel kept repeating 'pussy' over and over. Finally the Conservative woman demand that the other panelist stop using that vulgar term.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 294d
I remember you saying this in a previous comment!
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 6 pts · 294d
Eyebleach
https://youtu.be/ykEGtwJuZIs
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 294d
that's when you ************ so much your ************ turns ************ right?
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 2 pts · 294d
I was actually going to go for something else, but when I saw it in my queue I had to share it.
Go Team Venture.
reddit_sux@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 294d
Or claiming Veterans who were killed or were captured were losers. I thought Americans were proud of their armed forces.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works · 125 pts · 294d
I disagree (with the title but agree with you the post), Jan 6th should truly be the dealbreaker. Why? Cause it’s not even politics, it’s simple rules of games.
If you can’t accept when you lose, you don’t get to play anymore.
They had 4 years to jail him over treason and they didn’t. I said it before and I’ll say it again, Biden should have jailed him for Jan 6th.
crusa187@lemmy.ml · 72 pts · 294d
Biden should have used the bully pulpit and pushed hard to prosecute. Merrick Garland is technically the one who sat on his ass for 2 years before getting started, which is how Trump was able to delay through the election then throw out his own cases.
Based on the strong bipartisan coverup of the Epstein Files, clearly there are reasons Biden’s donors didn’t want to prosecute one of “their own.” So they didn’t, because the people don’t get represented in America, only capital owners do.
snooggums@piefed.world · 25 pts · 294d
Biden should have had him and the rest of the isurrectionists executed for trying to overthrow throw democracy. Jailing them just changes their platform for inciting rebellion.
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network · 21 pts · 294d
All the trumpers would have risen up to do violence, but fuck it: execute them, too.
KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 13 pts · 294d
The only reason the Jan 6th rioters got in the Capitol is because Donald Trump specifically chose not to call in the National Guard to protect the Capitol. If MAGA had attempted a second insurrection when Trump was jailed and Biden was in office, they wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
This is the kinda stuff I laughed about pre-last election when MAGA was calling for civil war if Kamala won. It's not funny now, but the truth remains. An outright seizure of the Capitol/White House/SCotUS is nigh impossible unless our leader wants it. Now, the Jan 6th crowd was exceptionally stupid in not even being able to navigate the Capitol floor; but navigation abilities won't matter when you get gunned down approaching the entrance.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 294d
also racism, they have to be careful around White people who are committing crimes too, without angering white voter base in general. alot of them pretend to be on the left, but act very wierdly around POCs.
chaogomu@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 294d
It is what they plan for the rest of us. Fascism has always been a sort of "blindly obey the leader or die" sort of thing.
The second major problem is that a whole bunch of people are then killed, first for being the wrong ethnicity, or killed for having the wrong beliefs, or maybe you just live on land that some rich asshole wants to steal. These people will never even be given a chance to "obey" but will likely be told that they are being killed for disobedience. Or someone will be told.
And the lie will be believed, because it will be convenient to do so.
RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 294d
Merrick Garland deserves a place in hell with Newt Gingrich, The Koch Family, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Mitch McConnell.
Now I personally believe that Garland was just that incompetent rather than malicious as the others are.
However, his incompetence is dammingly damaging to the future of the entire planet.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 53 pts · 294d
I'll never understand how Biden just let that go. He should have made it impossible for Trump or any of the other criminals from the previous administration to participate in politics again.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 294d
A legacy of cordiality and decorum that allowed fascism back in.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 293d
If I were Biden, locking all those traitors up would have been priority number one. Had they done that, the world would be a much better place.
SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social · 9 pts · 294d
They all should have been on a plane to Gitmo before the sun set on inauguration day.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 293d
If not then, the very instant the supreme court ruled that anything the president does is legal as long as it's an official act.
end_stage_ligma@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 294d
Limp dick energy dating back to Andrew Johnson?
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 294d
Oh come on, he's not THAT old. /s
scarabic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
I agree with you, though I don’t know what measures he could have taken, specifically, to ensure that.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 293d
This nation has a long history of precedent for dealing with traitors and criminals.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
Issue being that Americans collectively no longer agree on what those words mean.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 293d
We don't have to agree. He was in power, he can decide. Just like Trump is deciding what counts as "hate speech" now.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
We do agree. It’s just like I said, I am not sure what mechanism he could use exactly to do this. Presidents don’t just declare people traitors and criminals and jail them. If they could, Trump would have the entire Democratic Party in the slammer. There might have been more Biden could do, I just don’t know exactly what. And you don’t seem to either.
RagingRobot@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 293d
He waited almost two years to take any action on this because he didn't want to look like it was a political attack but trump was going to play that card either way. If he had told them to start working from day one this wouldn't be happening. There was plenty he could have done but he was too wrapped up in the old system of traditions to understand that things have changed.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 292d
The supreme court literally said that anything the president does is legal as long as it's an offical act. He should have done whatever needed to be done. Regardless of the law. If people had problems with it we could have dealt with him after the fact and revised whatever laws needed to be revised. He's old as shit anyway so had nothing to lose. Instead he sat on his hands and allowed Trump to regain power leaving us to deal with the consequences while he will be dead before long anyway.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 50 pts · 294d
Why would people think it was a big deal when the entire news media played it down, and then the guy who did it was allowed to run for the highest political office again.
freddydunningkruger@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 294d
Yup, the Republican party allowed Trump to go after the nomination, and his Republican opponents in the primaries never brought Jan 6 up for the disgusting act it was. Instead they all protected Trump by repeating the Big Lie.
Imagine Fox News right now, if Jan 6 had been Democrats and Obama. Seriously, they would be screaming for the dismantling of the Democratic party.
And that's the difference, the Left has NOTHING like Fox News and Newsmax, MSNBC doesn't even get CLOSE.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 294d
the closest thing to a left wing on TV at least, is DEMocracy now. and its not even that left, plus its also on late night where nobody else watches it.
every other one is center right or right wing, that glorfies the military to keep up enlistment numbers. movies and shows: copaganda, and right-wing ganda helps too.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 294d
i noticed its coordinated with right wing influencers/grifters also downplayed or dint bother discussing the insurrection. its not by accident its all coordinated through troll farms.
JamieDub86@piefed.social · 41 pts · 294d
Because, for his supporters, anything but them getting their own way is an injustice.
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 294d
He's the narcissist's hero.
Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 294d
It's the moderates and centrists that worry me. I know he had a laundry list of deal breakers. But after Jan 6th, he should have lost every sliver of support from anyone who doesn't support treason.
aow@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 294d
The problem is that he did, in that moment, and then media and people walked it back and minimized it for 3.5 years until by the time everyone voted again, well, he didn't go to prison so maybe they made it up or it wasn't so bad? See also: his felonies were "political".
Truth is that most Americans are so busy living or surviving that they don't go learn or seek out different views to become more well-rounded. Propaganda works.
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 37 pts · 294d
I don't understand why AIPAC, Citizens United, exorbitant health care and education costs, tax rates for the rich, slavery in prisons, and every other goddamned ridiculous thing that other first world countries don't have wasn't a deal breaker.
KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 294d
While I agree, what would it mean for these to be "dealbreakers"?
Bill Clinton gave tax rates for the rich, but he didn't run on that -- he ran on expanding the Middle Class. Barack Obama ran on a platform of fixing healthcare, and he sorta did. Citizens United v FEC was decided in 2010. The next election, Bernie Sanders' common-sense social safety nets were wildly popular among Democats and purple state voters -- not enough to beat the entire Democratic line-up that gave their delegates to Hillary Clinton, but still very popular.
On the debate stage, Donald Trump called out the same ridiculous Republican warmongering and perils of the USAmerican people that Bernie called out. In doing so, Trump sweeped out Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, and every other preferred neo-conservative candidate -- while being a billionaire rapist fraudster who owned a gold-plated apartment. Trump continued that diagonalization campaign strategy in 2024, to great success. He's naming real issues, and rallying up support with it, because people are exactly as fed up as you presume they should be. This is why MAGA voters are so aggressive. This is what the Jan 6th insurrectionists thought they were fighting for.
While I curse out the generation before me who allowed this country to get this way, I can't really say what they should have done differently. It's not like there weren't massive anti-war protests. It's not like the USA populace wanted to be deployed in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Iran. Bush hid the facts. It's not like people want these massive medical costs and unreasonable student loans... but what do we do? Changes were being teased in Congress; there was hope in the Supreme Court; presidential campaigns promised prosperity and ease, and USAmericans clung to that hope.
So did we sleepwalk through it all? Yes -- But I don't see how people could have been persuaded differently with anything short of foresight of exactly this reality of the year 2025. Reformists aren't going to burn down the Capitol when Congress is debating Medicare For All, even if it's the 40th year debating this issue; even after the vote fails.
UniversalBasicJustice@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 294d
You touched on it; Citizens United. Change that and we're back to a coherent timeline.
I also think the consolidation of media outlets into massive billionaire-controlled mouthpieces of industry alongside with Cambridge Analytica opening the flood gates on social medianl propagandization were crucial, but Citizens United will always be the death of the USA for me; it just took a few years for the corpse to start really stinking up the place.
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 293d
I think we can only make more laws and regulations against it moving forward. High school requirements on media literacy and propaganda to graduate. Also, mandatory elections after 30 days of shutdowns. Laws that no votes in a state can be counted until every able voter has cast a ballot. Term limits. Taxes higher as income increases. Assets can't be hidden as corporate property. Billionaires taxed out of existence. We just have to prevent more shit like it happening again.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 34 pts · 294d
Look, all you have to do is accept my one and only axiom: Most people on this planet are total and absolute idiots.
saimen@feddit.org · 3 pts · 294d
Actually this always was a point against democracy
TotallynotJessica@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 294d
Even the smart people aren't smart enough.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 294d
I'm not inclined to agree with "most", but the idiot:not-idiot ratio in society is way higher than I'm comfortable with. It's almost enough to make the question the wisdom of putting so many people on the road, driving their own cars.
The part that really shook me is when I talked to enough people to figure out that stupidity isn't always obvious. A person can speak well, be exposed to a lot of different news sources, have ample access to information, graduate from a decent school, and still be a total moron when it comes to a lot of things. Like functional illiteracy, grown adults learn how to cope and mask in ways that are shockingly good, considering they cover for huge deficits at the same time.
87Six@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 294d
I agree, and I think I'm among them too (no I don't say that because I voted Trump, I'm not American)
varnia@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -5 pts · 294d
Admit it, you voted third party! Just so you know: thats like voting for Trump but indirectly.
87Six@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 294d
Huh?
bampop@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 294d
varnia is suggesting you didn't vote for the Democrats. Which, considering you're not American, seems highly likely.
87Six@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 294d
Oh haha okay I had no idea what they meant.
I did vote for Nicusor Dan in Romania and that guy is as much of a democrat as they get around here haha
saimen@feddit.org · 1 pts · 294d
I mean 50% of the population literally is less intelligent than the average.
ftbd@feddit.org · 4 pts · 294d
Only if the median and mean coincide
saimen@feddit.org · -1 pts · 294d
If we assume IQ is a proper representation of intelligence than sure they do.
myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip · 26 pts · 294d
There are Americans that believe Trump has never lied. Like ever. About anything. He is truth. Some Americans actually believe this.
Petter1@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 294d
So they have no capacity to think logically, not even a tiny bit? Or do they just have no capacity in remembering stuff?
sploder@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 294d
They don’t want to think. At all. Just listen to what they’re told by fox or Facebook and get comfort in hating some group(s) “ worse than them “ while they believe they’re better than most people. They’re fully delusional.
SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social · 6 pts · 294d
Nah, worse than that. The root of the conservative pathology is self-hatred. They fear that they are worthless, shit people. A person who believes that they are better than everybody else can sit smugly in the corner and be superior in peace. Conservatives need near-constant reassurance that other people are worse than themselves, hence the performative cruelty they crave.
TheHighRoad@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 293d
They are also too cowardly to live freely, so they end up hating actual freedom and those that enjoy it because they hate themselves for allowing their freedom to be robbed by their ideology.
Snowclone@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 294d
They are terminally uncurious. Explaining to his cult individually that he has said things himself they can listen to is baffling to them. They only hear it through their filter of choice.
GladiusB@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 293d
I think you are giving them far too much credit. Just as there are short people and tall people and skinny and fat, there are people that don't have a lot going on upstairs. When I heard that 50% of people don't have an inner monologue I was astounded. I thought it not to be true. That someone had to have fucked up. Seeing all this play out, it makes way more sense.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
It's a real problem if you ask me. The older I get the easier it is to notice in people.
TheHighRoad@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
They are literally brainwashed. I do not know what the solution to that is.
harsh3466@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 294d
That just breaks my brain.
lennybird@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 294d
Perception is reality.
Control news, social media, and church and you can distort/gaslight reality.
Only the better educated can sometimes see through bullshit.
GladiusB@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 293d
Mine was George Floyd. When I saw so many people stand up and say that man deserved death over a bounced check I knew they lost their damn mind.
vithigar@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 293d
The idea that death is an acceptable outcome from being suspected of any minor infraction underpins the conversation around basically every police killing, with every single person on the side justifying it being tacitly accepting of that premise.
It's lunacy.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 293d
A few years after 9-11 for me. I grew up watching my classmates sing songs about indiscriminately bombing people in Afghanistan, and news reports of people being beaten or killed in the US for wearing any clothing that appeared Middle-Eastern. It made me sick to my stomach.
joan@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 293d
Nobody deserves to die... Even if they're.. uh... charlie kirk... No I think that one's ok.
GladiusB@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 293d
My take on Charlie is that I'm not surprised.
KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 292d
My take on Charlie and similar killings is that we're in a war, and war is never nice. I don't believe anyone should be assassinated, but I also don't believe we're playing by the rules of civility when we have hundreds of people being disappeared every day by masked agents on our street; and the government is tweeting out Nazi propaganda.
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
I heard his neck just did that
Tyrq@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 24 pts · 294d
The second I saw he was running the first time, I knew it was going to be a disaster. Maybe I couldn't appreciate just how much of a disaster it would be though
expatriado@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 294d
that escalator keeps going down to this day
ccunning@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 294d
Where was his cameraman when we really needed him?
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 294d
"those people are ignorant"
-My conservative mother, pretending Trump didn't work tirelessly for years enraging them, tell them to do exactly what they did, and then gleefully watch for 2 hours while they did it.
In other words, she thinks trump had nothing to do with it, as laughable as that is.
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 294d
January 6 gave the Nazis hope and basically exposed how easy it is to topple the government if they have law enforcement on their side.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 20 pts · 294d
Until my final breath I'll never understand how George W. Bush wasn't a dealbreaker for every future Republican president. And then they voted for Trump of all people.
Like that's it. We humans have failed evolution.
Kirk@startrek.website · 10 pts · 294d
He kind of was in a way. The 2016 primary featured a dozen Bush wannabes, and Trump just went on stage and embarrassed them all by pointing out all the things they did horribly wrong (war, healthcare, etc), he correctly identified what made Republicans unelectable nationally. People related to that anger.
Charapaso@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 294d
That's one of the most frustrating things about this right wing populism. They're correctly pointing out problems: wealth inequality, expensive housing, warmongering, etc. The problem they then cause is that they blame the source of these problems squarely on some scapegoats and then do things that only exacerbate the existing problems they diagnosed in the first place.
Billionaire donors gaining even more power and stripping the few checks against said power, doing shit all to make groceries cheaper, and now they're out there blowing up boats in international waters and committing large scale violence against people in this county. Yet... crickets from the folks who voted them in. Just maddening. They just wanted to shit on the scapegoats
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 294d
It's time to point to the LBJ sign again.
I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it, If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you. – Lyndon B. Johnson, attributed by Bill Moyers
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 294d
its always anger or fear, these are the only 2 emotions conservatives can express.
Kirk@startrek.website · 1 pts · 294d
I don't blame them for feeling either, honestly. But I do blame them for what they do about it.
Montagge@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 294d
White Americans lost their fucking minds when Obama was elected
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 294d
White americans voted for Obama. Blacks are only 13% of the country.
Montagge@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 294d
Big if true
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 293d
All my white friends love Obama.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 294d
i doubt most of them voted for obama, alot more went with the gop instead.
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 294d
Well....Americans have failed evolution.
XTL@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 294d
Devo was right.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 294d
it isnt because evangelicals are afraid of losing thier influence in government, plus thier hold on the US, and oppression of POCs and lgbtq+ people, and are afraid of retribution and reprisal from the latter 2 groups.
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 294d
If you pour enough money/resources into anyone, you can get them to win an election. Trump was just the easiest one to pour money into: he's easily swayed, even more easily bought, and has a certain... shudders charisma (?) that makes him more electable than a rando mild conservative.
What you're witnessing here is just capitalism. People with a lot of money and power wanted to gain even more money and power. Trump a convenient vehicle for that. So they poured money into his campaign and he won.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 291d
It's a good reason to consider sortition, or a system that distributes power so that it's super diffuse.
An example would be abolition of SCOTUS: Instead we create a special court for each individual case, pulling nine judges at random from the Appeals districts. That way, no Supreme Court justice can be owned the way Thomas and Alito are -- or one can, but they're not likely to get on all the cases a billionaire deems important.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 20 pts · 293d
Because half the fucking country is treating it like sports.
Akuchimoya@startrek.website · 10 pts · 293d
I thought I understood this as a Canadian until this current World Series. "My team good, your team bad." Then I saw comments from the fanbases of the teams that the Blue Jays faced, and now I understand that people are absolutely deranged. Calling for violence for opposing players for daring to face their team? Yikes.
And this is literally just a game. It doesn't actually have a bearing on people's lives in the long term. (Except the actual teams, I guess.) No wonder American politics is the way it is. Unfortunately, parts of Canada are trying to emulate this here, too.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 293d
There's something going on for sure. For many years, we were able to have sports without death threats.
I suspect it has something to do with the current attempts to manipulate people. We have news and politicians trying to pit us against each other and calling for violence against non-violent people. It's the Jose took your lunch kind of thing, and the conditioning feels like it's running rampant.
I worry about Canada; I don't think your people are emulating it. I think they're being influenced and are the next target.
I'm awfully tired of unprecedented times, but I fear we're setting the new bar for precedent.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 17 pts · 293d
Propaganda
Fox news Oann Newsmax
All propaganda channels that literally only publish lies. Fox news sued (and won) for the right to call itself a news channel yet lie their asses off without any legal problems
I'm just amazed that nobody saw this coming since at least 2-3 decades ago
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 293d
waves hands I've been watching this train for decades... no one listens.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 288d
I know the feeling.
O saw fox news for the first time and was like WTF, how can this be real and allowed? Then I gave it slightly more thought and you see how this is useful to make people for politicians that work against their best interests. You then see that happen, you see each next Republican presidential candidate be dumber and dumber and greedier. You see the US economy always in shambles after a Republican president, yet people keep voting for them because....
And you see this going in a certain direction.
This was a good 30 years ago.
Why are there so few people like us that didn't see this coming from miles away?
aberrate_junior_beatnik@midwest.social · 17 pts · 294d
It's because the Democrats didn't inflict any consequences on Republicans and used the "let's look to the future and not dwell on the past" framing on it. How can you blame voters for not taking it seriously if Democrats didn't?
partial_accumen@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 294d
You're speaking of long after Jan 6th occurred. The OP post is talking about on that day. As in, "how did those that would actually stand to benefit become willing to benefit at the cost of following the rule of law?" The disappointing answer is that those performing the insurrection on Jan 6th, as well as those that would stand to gain, are more concerned with being in power rather than respecting justice and the rule of law.
Kirk@startrek.website · 7 pts · 294d
Yes you nailed it. Kamala recently expressed sadness at the level of capitulation, saying she didn't expect it. A lot of us had a rude awakening in the days after J6 when we realized that lot of our fellow citizens did not take the lessons on democracy taught to us since grade school to heart.
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 294d
They called it out and Americans didn't care.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 294d
alot of the dnc are Dinos, republicans that cant get elected from the right, so they have to pretend to be Dems on some issues, but republicans on most other ones. why we get people like schumer, jefferies, fetterman
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 294d
I understand it.
People are paying 30% more to live now than they did before. No one cares about a person's politics if they claim they'll put food on your table.
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 294d
This chart is the whole story. Unfortunately people don't understand how the economy lags behind everything and Trumps recent actions are going to make the surge from COVID checks look like a blip.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 294d
It didn't lag behind for the rich.
It only lagged behind for the poor.
For four years, and Biden had all the power he needed to make real change for the poor, as evidenced by the last ten months.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 294d
There’s no one in the party that knows how to fix any of the problems they continue to create. Like forgiving college loans, but not changing the incentives to raise college prices. They could have allowed student loans to default, anything really. No one’s suggesting real change, just hand outs and corporate marauding.
The voting base went right along with this, “ ya forgive my loan, but leave the exploitative system for my children. “ that’s politics, fix my immediate grievances and pay no mind to the future or bad structures we build
absentbird@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 294d
Well you can forgive loans with executive orders, I don't think you can change the system without an act of Congress. Our legislature is no longer functioning, it's been locked in a cold civil war since at least Trump, maybe as far back as 08.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 294d
The last time Congress agreed on anything it was the patriot act of 2001
absentbird@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 293d
They agreed on bailing out the banks in 08, which is why I picked that year. Then the tea party movement pushed us into a deadlock and we've been there ever since.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
That’s true, the bank bailouts, war in Iraq, and the patriot act were all bipartisan. They will always agree on robbing you and killing you.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 294d
Joe Biden isn’t supposed to fix anything, Congress legislates, and the president executes the laws. Your Congress hasn’t represented you in 40 years and you expect the president to fix it in 4? That’s what trumps doing with this unitary executive king shit 🤣 Horseshoe theory strikes again
Tinidril@midwest.social · 4 pts · 294d
It's not about the President, but it is about the party, and the President is also the head of the party. Biden was also the party establishment candidate that they ran against Bernie specifically to kneecap any chance at actual reform. So no, he doesn't get a pass for the results, just because he was only the President. Look what only President Trump can do.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 294d
I mean no one would have consented to Biden breaking all the constitutional norms of the country, nor was there any popular policy to push. There was a lot of resistance to Biden from both parties. Judge him how you will, I’m not here to defend his honor or convince you of my opinion of Biden. I just wanted to express my frustration. How both sides want their presidents to act like Congress, while Congress constantly gets a free pass for fuck ups. It makes no sense to vote in an establishment congress and expect the president to make changes.
unconsciousvoidling@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 293d
Question… didn’t congress attempt to impeach trump several times and then have a January 6th committee? They then handed their findings to the justice department who took forever to bring up charges. 18 months in total before special counsel jack smith started his own investigation. So I mostly blame the justice department for delaying so much. Namely Merrick Garland doing fuck all when they had trumps ass for launching a terrorist attack on our nations capitol. Brazil moved super fast and now Bolsonaro is fucked and won’t be launching another assault any time soon.
Tinidril@midwest.social · 1 pts · 294d
Four years of the Biden Presidency came and went in which someone could be completely forgiven for forgetting who was sitting in the office. There was absolutely zero political or social leadership coming from the Biden Presidency. None. That was half by design, and half because he was too far gone to be in front of the American people that much.
He was a capable administrator, and under his presidency the liberal oligarchy did choose to make some concessions, and I think he had something to do with that. He had a capable and competent cabinet. But, he was chosen for the role specifically to stall any further continuation of progressive momentum.
EDIT: I forgot to add that permission comes for breaking the norms by creating a movement that demands the breaking of those norms. That's specifically what the Biden Presidency was designed not to do.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
I agree with that sentiment. No one really cares but me; but Biden did a lot to repair the broken ties internationally from the first trump admin. I just don’t know why everyone expected Biden to break norms: he followed the norms for his entire political career which stretched 50 years.
Do you think there was a unifying call from within America that he was ignoring? It seems like everyone loves this fucking oligarchy or doesn’t really care about it. No one was begging Biden to stop the oligarchy.
People still think Elon musk is a brilliant visionary. I don’t think he has more opposition than support.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
Dude, the only unifying call that they actually asked of Biden was to step down due to his age. He did and now America is great again. He really was a populist.
SparroHawc@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 293d
Look what
onlyPresident Trump can do, when the GOP also has the majority of the House and Senate, and - oh yeah - the Supreme Court.Tinidril@midwest.social · 3 pts · 293d
Trump had more influence over the United States Congress and Zeitgeist than Biden did while Biden was President, and that's a fact. That's also the reason WHY he now has Congress.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 294d
Yeah when the SC gives the President immunity for overstepping while he's in office? You're damn straight he should have done more. To quote Trae Crowder, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to win, motherfucker?"
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 294d
That’s a fair criticism, and I share it with ya. The executive branch should have gone a lot further with the power they did have. They let appearances get in the way of justice and democracy again! I’m starting to think there’s a pattern with that behavior
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 293d
Holy shit, someone else understands how things work around here.
Jhex@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 294d
that may explain how desperate idiots fall for the ruse the firtst time… but over and over again?
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 294d
Propaganda is a helluva drug
utopiah@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 294d
It's because every time until the NEXT one they were hindered into the process by the "bad" others. So you see, it's once again time to remove others who are preventing success.
/s obviously
ristoril_zip@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 294d
Well the answer to "why did people still support Trump after Jan 6th" is actually "Jan 6th."
Those people that came to DC and walked to the Capitol and stormed out are Americans who were a) pissed off and b) willing and able to travel and march and attack on behalf of Trump.
That's not nothing in terms of power and influence. And it's indicative of a BUNCH of people who met condition (a) but not (b). Like probably an order of magnitude or more.
Since no Republican stepped up to steal those supporters from Trump by pointing out how absolutely un-American Jan 6th was, they stayed loyal to him. So the politicians followed, the owners followed, and the media followed.
sleepundertheleaves@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 293d
salacious_coaster@infosec.pub · 14 pts · 294d
Because human brains are more frail than we think they are, and propaganda works amazingly well.
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 12 pts · 294d
Because so many people genuinely believe the election was stolen. It bewilders me
Zombiepirate@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 294d
I think a lot of that is because they want to believe it. It's confirmation bias exacerbated by using only news sources who are motivated to lie to them because billionaires don't want to pay taxes or fair wages.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 293d
Fox News. That's like 90% of the reason. And Trump is a fucking manchild that can't handle reality.
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 294d
The current president is a culmination .... a celebration ... of the general dumbing down of the American public.
They spent the past 50 years just generally deluding themselves to the point where stupidity, complacency and ignorance is just celebrated and rewarded.
It's a nation of idiots .... a nation of idiots with nuclear weapons.
zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com · 12 pts · 294d
American US vs them team mentality slammed into their heads from birth
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 294d
You’re looking for the word “indoctrination”. Also apparently calling indoctrination of children “child abuse” is an “opinion”.
Quexotic@infosec.pub · 10 pts · 294d
Simple. Back then were still naive enough to believe that there would be justice served.
JaymesRS@piefed.world · 9 pts · 294d
Trump was the perfect storm. Everybody that held some form of bigotry could see themselves in him. Because how could he be a bad person if they weren’t a bad person.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 294d
anti-vaxxers, flat earthers all went to the right.
observes_depths@aussie.zone · 9 pts · 293d
The Democrats were so certain it was they nominated a black asian woman. I like Harris but obviously rednecks aren't ready for that.
ryathal@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 293d
It wasn't the rednecks that decided not to have a primary and run a man so senile they made Trump look lucid.
themeatbridge@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 294d
Because so many Americans hate America and what it stands for. They hate anyone who isn't like them, and they like that it bothers you. They enjoy your frustration and your confusion, because it gives them a feeling of power they would otherwise never experience on their own merits.
Snowclone@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 294d
The republicans have a very robust propaganda machine. They digested and reframed it very quickly.
ShellMonkey@piefed.socdojo.com · 7 pts · 294d
The only reason a sizable chunk of the country wasn't there partaking would have been the cost of travel and time.
notsure@fedia.io · 7 pts · 293d
...me, neither...
scarabic@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 293d
A Trump voter from 2016 told me that he thought of Trump as a brick he was throwing at the window of The System. He started from the position that the system is broken and needs to be torn down before anything can be improved. I think that’s pretty stupid logic - people routinely underestimate the importance of incremental improvement.
But that’s what the thinking is anyway. The more we hate Trump the happier they are. He exists to knock our teeth out, personally if need be, but more importantly, collectively, as a system. Taking a shit on the floor of Congress? That’s all in the game.
joan@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 293d
No issue with tearing down the system to me. But people need to realize that Donny's not tearing anything down besides the East wing
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 293d
"Cave man smash!" Is how I refer to that logic.
mister_flibble@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 293d
Crashumbc@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 294d
Many conservatives have convinced themselves that the 6th was a false flag operation by the libtards. For "reasons"
Kinokoloko@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 294d
This is the one I've heard. By my own father, no less. I had no idea how to respond to it.
Someone once said, "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into." Something along those lines, anyways. That expression has saved me from many a pointless argument.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 294d
Most of them won't talk about it, that's how they are dealing with it
lobut@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 294d
Voters are just lazy and stupid.
Voters saw January 6th and were like "I'm gonna stay home because voting doesn't matter or I'm too busy and lazy to defend rights and democracy".
Voters also see Trump and are so stupid to think that he was gonna make their economic life better. SleePy JoE diD tHaT! jOeVeR
Single Issue voters are just absolutely f**king stupid.
Media also sanewashed RFK and Trump again. The cult will always vote for their candidate. The normal people need a "reason" to take action. People love blaming Kamala for not beating the "oh-so-easy" Trump but they wouldn't move their worthless asses to vote anyways.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 293d
I think this is lazy and stupid.
lobut@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 293d
👍
Soleos@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 293d
Because sadly, the attitudes and views of people making up Jan 6 are shared by a large proportion of the US population, even if they would not have participated given the means/opportunity.
Jan 6 is viewed by them with analogous sentiment to how the left views civil disobedience for civil rights movements, regardless of the substance/justice of the event.
SeeMarkFly@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 294d
Oh, I don't hate Trump. It's just that he reminds me of the guy that sexually abused me when I was 11 years old. Same body build, same voice, same hair, same complexion...WAIT A MINUTE!
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 294d
Because American anti-democracy people envisioned themselves as the pro-democracy HK protestors who stromed the LegCo Building.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 294d
I was working the day of j6 and I will never forget all of my coworkers watching it and fully cheering like it was the Super Bowl.
mad_lentil@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 294d
See this is why I think the US missed a revolution somewhere after WWII.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 293d
Boy am I glad I didn't have that going on.. that would've been problematic.
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 294d
Because you don't understand the American voter, but Trump does.
Quexotic@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 294d
So, given the mounting evidence for vote manipulation, I can't believe that anymore.
10mo ago, I would have agreed though.
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 294d
He defeated every Republican rival and took control of the GOP through the voters. Even if he cheated, which he did, him having support of even 40% still proves he understands the American voter in a way few do.
Quexotic@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 294d
I'm not sure. You may be giving him credit that belongs to Roger Stone, but in essence I don't think you're wrong about the zeitgeist that he's latched onto.
I guess in all likelihood, it's that, plus the cheating, and without both he wouldn't have won.
It all feels very inorganic to me though. Astroturfed, especially this second time.
It doesn't matter though. Probably the last president.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 293d
Decades of propaganda and large regions of our nation with inadequate public education.
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 293d
Mine was when I was a kid and learned Americans had a right to carry firearms.
Devjavu@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 294d
The only thing that differentiates us from other primates is we run. They just like violence, gets them riled up.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 293d
I don't think you are correct here.. just a hunch.
Devjavu@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 290d
It's a mix of hyperbolic and ridiculing language. Of course it's not correct. We have way more complex social systems than the smartest of non-human apes, we are way more regulated, since our survival hasn't been based on raw dominance for like thousands of years, if not more. And so on.
fnfunkin@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 294d
burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 294d
I sometimes wonder if mikey getting into that car would have been enough of a shock to cause the justice system to do just about anything, or if they would have found a way to make even that an event mild enough to sweep under the rug.
Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org · 1 pts · 294d
It was a dealbreaker for many - that there was a side that wasn't with them. That's how 2024 happened.
wheezy@lemmy.ml · -13 pts · 294d
Same way Liberals voting for a candidate actively enabling a genocide. Their side is also full of "you're not helping our electoral chance" politics.
If you can't understand how January 6th wasn't a deal breaker; but you also expect a genocide to NOT be a deal breaker at the same time. I have little hope for you to understand what is going on today and even how we got to this point.
The weird part is people expect MAGA to have moral lines; but if you're a leftist that can't exist. You have to listen to our "lesser evil" argument.
Edit: Lots of downvotes but not one person ready to reply and explain why January 6th should be a deal breaker while a genocide should not. I'll wait...