Android's new developer verification rollout begins, sideloading changes are next
https://www.androidauthority.com/android-developer-verification-rollout-sideloading-flow-3653395/
https://www.androidauthority.com/android-developer-verification-rollout-sideloading-flow-3653395/
169 Comments
inari@piefed.zip · 241 pts · 126d
urushitan@kakera.kintsugi.moe · 72 pts · 126d
For those who haven’t seen this excellent video:
https://youtu.be/T4Upf_B9RLQ
grue@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 126d
It's not that "excellent." It's just 'for the evulz' mustache-twirling comical villainy, which ends up downplaying what's actually important to know about enshittification, which is how self-serving and abusive it is. When companies enshittify products and services, they're not just making them worse; they're specifically making them more exploitative.
A lot of the examples shown in the video -- cutting holes in socks, sawing off a chair leg so it wobbles, drying out a marker, etc. -- are not enshittification. Enshittification is stuff like putting spyware in devices so that you double-dip on the purchase price and the value of the data, or turning products (as opposed to services) into a subscription. Stuff that extracts unearned value from the customer.
It touches on it in the latter part of the video, but for the most part misses the mark.
MunkysUnkEnz0@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 126d
You know, it was funny. Bit long in the tooth. The best thing about the video, it was actually produced by Norway. The government produced the video. That's pretty freaking cool.
urushitan@kakera.kintsugi.moe · 13 pts · 125d
Yeah it was a short PSA for average people, not power users. If it wasn’t funny a lot of people lose interest. It only spends the first 25% on the unrelated comedy bit. And the real point is to get people to the site at the end to learn more.
grue@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 125d
Upon further reflection, I think my previous comment may have been a little too harsh on it.
But I still think that, to be truly "excellent," it could've made its point without muddying/confusing the definition of enshittification.
urushitan@kakera.kintsugi.moe · 3 pts · 125d
Yeah excellent might have been a little too much praise, but I haven’t seen any other public PSAs trying to point out to people what’s happening to online services and doing a decent job of it
XLE@piefed.social · 2 pts · 125d
To me, this picture is still a meme in the making. Reminds me of Heartbreaking guy
tramdan@piefed.social · 196 pts · 126d
̶S̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶l̶̶o̶̶a̶̶d̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶ Installing
dev_null@lemmy.ml · -39 pts · 125d
Yeah, but installing from the Play Store is also installing, and "sideloading" is shorter than "installing from outside the Play store", so I'm not sure this is a winnable fight.
BackgrndNoize@lemmy.world · 74 pts · 125d
It's installing regardless from where you get the app, by labeling it as sideloading these giant corpos want to label it as doing something outside the norm, something that is "unsafe" so they can have control over user behavior and market dominance
dev_null@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 125d
Yes that's what I'm saying, it's "installing" regardless of where you get the app, so if an article wants to talk about something concerning installing apps from outside the Play Store, they can't just say "installing". That would be incorrect if the things they talk about don't concern installing from the Play Store.
So you need a different description than just "installing".
E.g. in this example the article title couldn't be "installing changes are next", it would need to be something else.
"Installing" is not a drop-in replacement for "sideloading" without changing the meaning of what you say.
ITGuyLevi@programming.dev · 8 pts · 125d
I've had the play store install, remove, and modify installed applications without so much as a hint they were doing it, the "Play Store" does what would be considered "sideloading" applications (i. e. a third party app managing your applications from a location other than the package manager), feeding an apk to a package manager would just be "installing" an application like it always has been.
By co-opting the term to be something bad, they are trying to make it seem like they are the only safe source for applications (even though the Google-managed stores have just as much malware as WinMX did 20+ years ago).
dev_null@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 125d
Correct, but what do you propose? In your terminology installing from the Play Store is "sideloading" and installing directly is "installing". But surely you agree that if an article was titled "Google makes installing apps on Android harder, but sideloading will be as smooth as before", everyone would understand the opposite of that.
ITGuyLevi@programming.dev · 4 pts · 125d
I would personally like to just go back to calling it installing, but I doubt that is even less likely than getting back "-lications" to my programs (just a dumb joke about how applications slowly became apps).
Its all good though, I'm just an old man bitching on the internet.
biofaust@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 125d
Installing from other app stores. Installing, but not from the Play Store. Installing from not-Google-controlled stores.
It's installing. Context can be given using this wonderful semantic device called "subordinate clauses".
dev_null@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 125d
Yeah exactly, and we reached all the way back to my original comment: you can't just replace "sideloading" with "installing", without adding additional clarification.
Trilogy3452@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 125d
"I installed from apt get, and then I sideloaded from flatpak, and sideloaded from a .deb file"? Or "installed from the windows store but sideloaded from an .exe file" (literally everything I ever installed was through .exe/.msi on windows)
?!?!?
HexaBack@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 125d
all of which is entirely possible on a phone (Linux containers and WINE), which makes the term "sideloading" even dumber
dev_null@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 125d
I'd just call all of that "installing", "sideloading" doesn't really make sense here. Importantly you already specified how you installed in each case, so it's perfectly understandable whatever verb you use.
Zink@programming.dev · 6 pts · 125d
It's well worth the minimum amount of extra typing and reading to say "installing from outside the Play Store" to push back against the idea of the locked down CorpoPhone being the default... or the norm... or the legal requirement.
It's a small push back commensurate with the small amount of effort, but it's a subject worthy of the attention.
dev_null@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 125d
It is, but sadly I don't think Android Authority and other publications will be convinced. We should still try though.
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu · 3 pts · 125d
There's a lot of other cool terms we could use. Indy apps, homebrews, anything that makes you think of a farmer's market...
Also, we might just push for the narrative that anthing not sideloaded is wrong... Why are people using spoonfed apps anyways? Aren't we grownups?
Edit: auto-complete typos
dev_null@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 124d
I like your ideas, they would be a better replacement than just "installing".
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 124d
I don't install apps, I adopt craft softwares coded with care! 🧑🌾
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca · 155 pts · 126d
Great. So half my software won't work.
Google, just call it what it is. Ad blocking prevention.
Humanius@lemmy.world · 56 pts · 126d
This is in no way a justification for what Google is doing, but they came to a "compromise" where you can still opt-in to being allowed to "sideload unverified apps" (read: install apps that didn't have to get approval from Google).
You have to enable it in the settings, and then you need to wait 24 hours before the setting is enabled. After that you can continue to run "unverified" apps
wiccan2@lemmy.world · 52 pts · 126d
What I haven't seen is what happens to all of the apps I currently have installed when this hits.
Am I going to have to wait 24 hours to open apps I already have installed?
Will they all get auto-removed and need reinstalling?
Everything is written as if you're starting from new not an existing state.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 20 pts · 126d
What happens if I just stop updating android for as long as I can? Quite a few apps on my phone have retained functionality past when their developers attempted to brick them because I froze updates
MunkysUnkEnz0@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 126d
My Samsung S22 let me pause updates anymore. And it nags me to death.
My workaround is to start downloading the update and then pausing it.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 14 pts · 126d
RIP, that's cancer. Yeah samsung has lost its fucking mind. I wish I had been considering the availability of 3rd party roms when I chose my model
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 125d
Coyote9369@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 126d
This is all managed via Play services not the android OS so you'd need to not update the core services.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 126d
Got that one froze too 🤞 pray for me holding out in the woods on this shit like the unabomber
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 3 pts · 126d
There is a way to not update play services? They do their shit in automatic on my phone
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 126d
It's under settings > Security Privacy. You might need dev mode turned on
mrnobody@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 126d
Hello from Android 12 lol. My 4yo phone runs just fine!
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 126d
Sick. Any security scares or compatibility problems?
mrnobody@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 125d
None I'm aware of. I've uninstalled pretty much every Google app, signed out of gmail acct and am mostly using F-Droid apps since I don't need any "app store" apps. I kept my banking app, but apparently so far doesn't need Google's services bc it still works just fine. My battery, since making that switch, lasts a bit longer without all that stuff running.
But FYI, I don't have any social media, and I only use WiFi unless I'm on the road. I don't BT to my car but rarely, and I don't need location services. So 1 day+life is easily achievable!
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 125d
google services update themselves separately
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 125d
google services update themselves separately
Meatwagon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 125d
I'm still sitting on Android 9 on a seven year old phone. They can take my Note 8 from my dead body. Its battery life is still fine and it's still snappy and fast.
My banking app stopped working so I just use the browser page. A few smart device apps won't work either, but I have a tablet I keep at home to use for my home control.
Discord still works fine. I have Reddit side loaded, still using RiF after the API fiasco. Those are really the only two things I need an actual app for an even then I'd probably just use the browser if they failed. Most apps still work as of now. Amazon won't let kindle work on it anymore but fuck Amazon, I just get non-drm stuff on a different reader now.
Most phone companies refused to enable voice over broadband option after the 3g network went down in 2022 but I stayed stubborn and kept calling until finding T-mobile would do it.
I guess I'll find out what happens when this update is pushed through? It shouldn't hit me I'd hope.
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 125d
I just upgraded to a fairphone 6 with e/os preinstalled after holding on to my LG G6 for at least 7 years. The thing that finally pushed me to upgrade was the camera, which was fine in 2019 but now is such a potato. Also the battery life was ass, the usbc port was super loose, and the micro sd card slot was broken so I was perpetually almost out of storage.
Meatwagon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 124d
How are you liking it? I've never heard of e/os before, it looks neat. How does it compare to lineage/ graphene?
My camera is still great and still better than my partner's newer iphone's. No port wobble yet thankfully and I've never used an sd card anyway. This Note 8 is still great in every way so I have no reason to upgrade yet. I want to make it to 10 years at least.
With e/os will updates eventually stop due to your phones hardware? Or can you keep updating perpetually? What I hate is being forced to upgrade a perfectly working phone because someone decided not to allow updates on it anymore and the app rot that follows.
I haven't used a rom this phone yet because I'm very attached to the stylus as I use this as my art tablet.. so that's the main holdout reason I have.
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 124d
I like it so far. In the words of Worf, it serves me. I definitely miss some of the settings I had available on my old phone, but this one is much snappier. The os is basically the same as normal android but without the builtin google garbage. I still have the android app store. I guess the main thing is since its a fairphone repair and battery replacement will be much easier so hopefully I can just keep it for a long long time.
cybernihongo@reddthat.com · 8 pts · 125d
At the start I would have thought this was possible but pretty ridiculous. Why would Google do any of that?
But it turns out this was not ridiculous, as Play Protect literally just removed Ankiconnect, an app I already had installed for months, without giving me the choice to keep it or axe it. They certainly could force us to go with their "Uncle Google can I have permission to use my phone?" flow for apps we already use.
WE MUST CONTINUE TO OPPOSE THESE CHANGES, THESE ATTACKS ON OUR ABILITY TO INSTALL APPS AS WE WISH.
Coyote9369@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 126d
Haven't seen anything official but I'd assume they will behave as normal and you may not be able to update them without going through the advanced flow. Since ADB installs aren't restricted I don't think there will be any changes to existing installs. Just my thoughts based on what they have confirmed so far. I am just waiting for GOS to support the Pixel 10a so I can get further away from Google and their BS in general.
noname_no_worries@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 126d
FYI, there's an experimental build available, if you can't wait.
https://grapheneos.org/releases#stallion
Coyote9369@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 126d
Thanks, I'm aware but this is already my daily driver because my old phone was dying so I can't make the jump until it is stable.
wiccan2@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 125d
That's my hope, would be nice of they actually confirmed it.
With their story being "for security" I could see them trying to do a purge.
kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 126d
It won't do anything to apps already installed. Future apps can be installed either by going through the dev mode unlock process or connecting to a computer and using ADB which doesn't require a wait period.
Einskjaldi@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 125d
24hrs is a one time system flag for can install unverified apps or not, so it shouldn't affect existing stuff.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 32 pts · 125d
The "advanced flow" with a one-day wait is just Google realizing they need to boil this frog a little more slowly to prevent a backlash. They still want a fully boiled frog in the end.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 25 pts · 126d
it wont remain at that. i bet they will disable that setting occasionally and make you wait that 24h again and again.
herrvogel@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 125d
Xiaomi bootloaders used to work like that. You'd have to jump through some bullshit hoops to register your phone for bootloader unlocking, and then wait a few days to finally be able to unlock it. Then they made that worse and worse, and afaik it's so insanely difficult and inconvenient right now that it's practically impossible to unlock your Xiaomi phone's bootloader. This applies to all the brands under that umbrella.
I am about 97.37% sure Google will do the same over time and at some point you just won't be able to install any APKs.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 21 pts · 125d
Even google's "verified apps" are full of spyware, backdoors, and telemetry. They're so fucking hypocritical. Like an abuser who says "You can't make it in this world without me!"
Also, is this going to effect third-party ROMs like Lineage and its offshoots?
Omgpwnies@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 125d
AFAIK, this is only Android, not AOSP that third-party devs would be using for their ROMs - and AOSP can be forked as well, so there's no reason that Lineage can't cut that part out if it did make it into AOSP.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 125d
Good to know!
MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 126d
For now at least, google will likely remove that option in the future.
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 134 pts · 126d
Ummm... Isn't this precisely against the whole EU's make sideloading (ie. installing) as easy as main app store installing thing?
Taking steps backwards...
Infernal_pizza@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 104 pts · 126d
Apple shat all over those regulations with their implementation and got away with it so now Google are doing the same
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 41 pts · 126d
Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
Accountability is key in regulations. Without it, why should anyone follow them?
Infernal_pizza@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 27 pts · 126d
I also blame the Epic lawsuits. How the fuck did they lose to Apple but win against Google, the platform where Fortnite was still fully playable and monetised?
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 10 pts · 126d
I don't know anything about those. What's the story?
Infernal_pizza@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 125d
Basically Epic weren't happy with the 30% cut that Apple and Google take from app sales and in-app purchases so they introduced a direct payment method which bypassed Apple and Google's payment methods, but was in violation of their app store rules. In response both Apple and Google removed Fortnite from the app store. Fortnite remained playable on Android because of sideloading but was unplayable on iOS (I'm not even sure if it's back yet)
In response Epic sued both companies claiming they held an illegal monopoly. Somehow Apple won and Google lost
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 6 pts · 125d
Oh I do recall that now that you mention it. But I wasn't aware that they lost to Apple. That sounds ridiculous, isn't it the same thing?!
Infernal_pizza@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 125d
I looked further into it and it seems to be because on iPhone the restrictions were purely technical, it just wasn't possible to publish anywhere other than the app store which apparently isn't monopolistic.
However Google were apparently making deals to make the play store the more attractive choice despite the alternatives existing, which did count as monopolistic behavior.
Now in isolation I can sort of understand both of those decisions, and I don't really care either way because fuck Google Apple and Epic, I want them all to lose. But in the context of both lawsuits happening pretty much at the same time this was literally the one result that made no sense. I could understand Epic winning or losing both cases, or even beating Apple and losing to Google, but this way round was just stupid and I think Googles recent behaviour is partially because of it.
devfuuu@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 125d
It took years and legal pressure and fines to have other app stores decently recognized and allowed. I don't understand how we are going so back. I mean I understand. Capitalism + monopoly + orange guy.
General_Effort@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 125d
I doubt it. EU regulations demand all manner of documentation, including who supplied software. Tech companies should also protect users and enforce "our" laws, which means a lot of surveillance.
App stores already have to do developer verification, under the celebrated DMA.
There's a pro-business loophole meant to keep bureaucracy low. Very small companies are exempted. It's kind of ironic, because Lemmy usually hates this kind of pro-business anti-regulation thing. To be fair, using this loophole to shield devs, as F-Droid wants, is an abuse. It's only meant to allow small companies to grow until they have the resources to handle the verification.
kilgore_trout@feddit.it · 1 pts · 125d
Most projects served by F-Droid are not backed by companies. Then they are righfully exempted from the DMA, it's not a "loophole".
General_Effort@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 125d
You misunderstand. They are not exempt at all. F-Droid is exempt from collecting their identities.
krigo666@lemmy.world · 107 pts · 126d
And that's why I'm installing /e/OS in my Fairphone 6, and shifting to Linux based phones.
Even now Google is removing everything that is a choice to avoid their massive surveillance machine, apps started complaining about removal of UnifiedPush:
Fuck Google.
RmDebArc_5@piefed.zip · 47 pts · 126d
That's actually a known bug in Fennec, nothing to do with Google
aproposnix@scribe.disroot.org · 22 pts · 126d
FF6 with eOS is awesome! For the first time in a very long time, I feel like I actually own the device! Very liberating.
Kornclown@feddit.org · 2 pts · 126d
Do you use any banking apps?
aproposnix@scribe.disroot.org · 7 pts · 125d
Yeah, I was very happy that my banks app worked. Also, I found if I keep microg connected to the app lounge, then my bank app would not work. So I keep it set to anonymous connection.
kalpol@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 126d
All mine work, so far, in Graphene, except Google wallet and i don't need Google to see what I purchase anyway.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 125d
Mine refuse to run in GrapheneOS. Everything runs except my banks' apps and eBay. It's a slight inconvenience but the tradeoff has been worth it.
Edit: Thanks to NewOldGuard@lemmy.ml I got my bank's app working under GrapheneOS.
NewOldGuard@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 125d
Have you tried the workarounds like disabling some exploit protections for the app? It can be finicky but sometimes it’ll make it usable
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 125d
No, thanks for the tip. I'll try that.
Edit: It worked! Disabling exploit protections got my bank's app working. Thanks again.
NewOldGuard@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 125d
Sweeet I’m glad it helped!
neo2478@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 126d
Welcome friend! I've been having a great time with e/os on my FP6.
I recommend the lawnchair launcher if you don't like the stock one.
houjou@jlai.lu · 6 pts · 126d
Yes lawnchair is a must have with e/os. I like what /e/os is pushing for but im puzzled on why they did this horrendous launcher and the way they change stock android look.
Etterra@discuss.online · 13 pts · 125d
Don't forget their ongoing war on ad blocking. I'll miss NewPipe so much.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 125d
NewPipe, PipePipe, Grayjay, brave mobile
One of them generally works.
The latest NewPipe is working for me right now. It only ever dies for a few days.
Etterra@discuss.online · 1 pts · 125d
It's working, yeah, but it's
sideloadedinstalled outside of a washed garden, so it'll soon be uninstallable.rumba@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 124d
The inevitable end is when they bake the commercials into the stream, take away the skip buttons and ban accounts for timeskipping over commercials through other detectable means.
The inevitable counter is we screencap youtubers, feed it through comskip, and produce commercial-free content and torrent it.
BrickEater@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 125d
Pipepipe works fine
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 125d
I've been using NewPipe without problems. Is it supposed to have gone away?
fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 125d
Mine insists I'm a bot and requests I sign in.
Other times it works occasionally.
Like rolling dice.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 125d
Try some methods to change your IP.
Etterra@discuss.online · 0 pts · 125d
future tense, they even posted about it, jfc
krigo666@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 125d
You can try Futo's Grayjay. Always updating its YT plugin when Google breaks it.
elucubra@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 126d
Do
noevil.PlexSheep@infosec.pub · 6 pts · 126d
I'm on an FP6 with iodéOS, very smooth so far, and apparently security is better than with /e/OS.
I had to manually flash it though.
Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 125d
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 11 pts · 125d
Some people value freedom more than convenience
luluberlue@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 125d
It sadly doesn't change the fact that those phones barely exists and the few that does are either incredibly old or only very partially supported.
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 1 pts · 125d
And we may be fine with that
krigo666@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 125d
I have a Jolla C2 with SailfishOS, it has Android app support based on AlienDalvik, and my banking app runs just fine there. I can use Nextcloud, etc. For my needs it runs great.
ITGuyLevi@programming.dev · 1 pts · 125d
Been using them for a hot minute, been rocking one flavor of the Linux kernel on my phone since the release of the Motorola Droid back in like 2009-2010.
xelar@lemmy.ml · 81 pts · 125d
Alternatives
Fairphone https://shop.fairphone.com/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operating-system
GrapheneOS https://grapheneos.org/
Sailfish OS https://sailfishos.org/
LibrePhone from GNU/Linux https://librephone.fsf.org/
chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 125d
To be fair, LibrePhone isn't an alternative because its just an announcement of a project. There is nothing viable yet from them.
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 125d
It also is not an actual OS but just reverse engineered blobs so someone else could make an OS, they might not even be able to port a mainline kernel to any devices
MithranArkanere@lemmy.world · 74 pts · 125d
How is it even legal for a company to decide what you can or can't install in your own device?
maplesaga@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 125d
The US supports monopolies as long as they have a backdoor. It was the same with Microsoft in the 90s.
brisk@aussie.zone · 29 pts · 125d
Because anti-trust has not been enforced this century, with the exception of Lina Khan's work as the FCC director.
Companies have been pushing the boundaries further and further for decades, with almost no push back.
HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 28 pts · 125d
Legal is just whoever has the most resources.
TrippinMallard@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 125d
Einskjaldi@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 125d
For the same reason they can make you click agree to terms before you can do anything with the device.
MithranArkanere@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 124d
Terms of service are unenforceable as nobody reads them.
A contract cannot be valid if one side has not read it. If one side cannot guarantee the other side has read it, it's their onus.
Also, clicking a button that says "I accept" isn't signing a contract. If it doesn't have your signature or a certified digital signature, it isn't a contract.
It's just an "I told you so" that allows them to kick you out, like the rules at the entrance of a restaurant. It doesn't give them the power to sue you or anything like that. It's just covering their asses with legalese excuses. Any legal practice that claims otherwise are just legal mercenaries for the wealthy.
Einskjaldi@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 122d
The legal part doesn't matter, the important part is that if you don't click yes, they control the software and you can't install the third party software.
Skv@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 125d
Ugghhhh, its THEIR OS you're using. Perfect example is Nintendo.
kungen@feddit.nu · 8 pts · 125d
"If you want to replace Internet Explorer with Netscape Navigator, why not just use Solaris or OS/2 or something? It's THEIR OS you're using" didn't go over too well with the courts.
fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 125d
You mean the original NES which they tried in court to stop unlicensed carts and lost, right? Right?
Skv@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 124d
Moreso now with Switch 2s getting bans for using 3rd party accessories/those not working outright since they lack some baked in h/w ID that Sw2 checks for online
Zink@programming.dev · 11 pts · 125d
I reckon that means it is not actually your own device.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 66 pts · 126d
Do we stand any chance? And how fucking dare these fucking outlets continue to normalize this shit.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 61 pts · 126d
We need development of Linux OSs for phones to ramp up. And we need Linux distributors and backers to fight back against "age verification" laws that are actually ID verification laws. There's a global attack underway on multiple fronts against free software, private computing, and user ownership and control of devices.
In the meantime, for a stopgap, there's GrapheneOS, but that doesn't fix the problem of developers having to choose between Google's way or unpaid obscurity.
zergtoshi@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 126d
PostmarketOS was already mentioned.
There's another Linux OS for phones I'm aware of: https://sailfishos.org/
ZombieChicken@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 126d
PostmarketOS is a thing. A lot of the software is already available for Linux. People just keep pretending it doesn't exist and keep spouting the same tired anti-Linux rhetoric ad nauseum.
Heck, I bet you could make a phone call from a bloody Pi Zero with a 4g & UPS HAT.
ISOmorph@feddit.org · 16 pts · 126d
That's a bit unfair. Postmarket is super cool and I can't wait to get a Linux phone. But let's not pretend it's ready to be daily driven. Even on the best supported phones there are still hardware driver compatibility issues. And that's not even speaking about the software catalog. Even in the privacy community, a lot of people regard banking apps as mandatory. Good luck ever getting those to run there.
DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 126d
FE80@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 125d
LineageOS supported models: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
mulcahey@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 125d
The weirdest part to me: this comes after the EU determined that Apple's locked store is too restrictive, and Apple agreed to allow 3rd party stores. Why the hell would Android go in the opposite direction? Will this put them in violation of the same EU regulation?
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 124d
Presumably, they'll get a 100 000 dollar fine, and that'll be it.
forrgott@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 124d
Oh they allow alternative stores now, too; you can install Epic for example. I wonder if that'll be subject to these new rules as well?
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 23 pts · 126d
https://opencollective.com/f-droid-euro
https://opencollective.com/postmarketos
Matty_r@programming.dev · 5 pts · 126d
https://grapheneos.org/donate
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 16 pts · 126d
No, not really. This is not a real alternative. Google will still try to kill alternative ROMs and it's just a matter of time before GrapheneOS will no longer be maintainable. A push for true Linux mobile OS is needed. Time is running out.
Matty_r@programming.dev · 4 pts · 126d
People can donate to all of these things if they wish - I dont see why GrapheneOS can't also be given funds even just for the work that they're doing currently.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 4 pts · 126d
Sure, you can donate. I'm just saying it's not a good solution to the problem at hand. But it's a good solution to other problems and it will work short term.
TherapyGary@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 125d
They're partnering with Motorola
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 6 pts · 125d
Won't help them much when Google makes Android closed sourced and hides security fixes from them.
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 126d
Just bought a second hand pixel 6 to test Graphene. Let's see what Motorola does and how Linux phones do in the future.
excral@feddit.org · 18 pts · 125d
I have the new Jolla Phone preordered and I'm excited to see how it plays out. Maybe 2026 is the year of the Linux Phone
DiabolicalBird@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 125d
They've been saying "maybe it's the year of the Linux desktop" for years, mobile Linux only reliably works on a handful of specific modern devices and some fairly old ones
I wouldn't hold my breath for it
excral@feddit.org · 4 pts · 125d
I know that the year of the Linux desktop is a bit of a meme but that's why I was referencing it. That said, the year of the Linux desktop has long come for me personally and only my desktop PC still has a Windows partition but I don't know when I last booted into it. I won't immediately ditch my Android phone, but I'm excited to test the viability of a Linux phone for me personally
DiabolicalBird@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 125d
As much as I love Linux I'll be the first to admit that it probably won't catch on with average users for a long time. Most people really don't want to have to troubleshoot anything and just want something that works out of the box, and Linux isn't really able to deliver that consistently.
I'm curious to try a Linux phone myself, but being in Canada importing new hardware is expensive and the other phone models that are compatible are ancient, and often without VoLTE support which is gonna be mandatory pretty soon here
InFerNo@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 125d
Desktop Linux may not be mainstream, but it's solid. Mobile Linux not so much. I bought the pinephone hoping it would be a first class citizen, but it's fairly underwhelming, even after all this time. UBPorts has it listed as 68% supported, it and other OSes lack useful app ecosystems.
TotalCourage007@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 125d
We will get that reality with SteamOS supporting mobile devices whether gov likes it or not. These laws are SO god damn stupid.
maplesaga@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 125d
Motorola is making a graphene OS phone soon.
SnoringEarthworm@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 125d
If they don't cancel the partnership over
age verificationdigital IDsEV3W0Y797@reddthat.com · 16 pts · 126d
I've been saving all the .apk files for apps I find valuable, just in case this ends up impacting future GrapheneOS builds.
Worst case scenario, at least I'd be able to use a saved Pixel for the apps I want, without needing a Google account.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 126d
Is there a way to get the apk files for apps you've downloaded from the Play store?
merde@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 125d
aurora gives you the option to "save app bundle"
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 125d
Interesting... I've only just started messing with Graphene by putting it on an old Pixel and it seems pretty impressive.
So you opt to use Aurora? Do you need to install Google Play services to use that one? Seems like the options are Aurora, or creating a second user and installing the sandboxed Play services on that for apps that need it.
I tried the latter, but it's basically impossible to sign up for a Google account without giving a phone number these days and I'm not sure I want to log in to my actual Google account since that kind of defeats the purpose...
Some people seem to have some concerns about Aurora as well
merde@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 125d
no. Nor do you need a boogle account.
I've never read any concerns about aurora. What are they?
EV3W0Y797@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 125d
If you want to get apps you've already downloaded, the only way I know how is by using the Google Files app.
I download all my apps through Obtainium. There may be an easier way than this, but I use all the URLs from the Obtainium export file to go directly to the .apk file. I do this quarterly. I don't use very many apps, so its not a long process, even if it is manual.
Logical@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 125d
I really wish I wasn't so dependent on certain financial apps. How much happier I would be to just give Google the finger and switch to Lineage, Graphene, or something like that. Unfortunately, a lot of must-have apps for me to even be able to live in my country, practically speaking, are incompatible with anything other than official iOS and Android.
birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 125d
Why not get a bank pass for this kind of stuff, and do banking on websites if you need to?
FatVegan@leminal.space · 3 pts · 125d
Couldn't you get like the cheapest android phone just for these apps specifically? Or do people need to do banking stuff on the go?
Logical@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 125d
This is something I am considering. Could even put it in a Faraday bag when I'm not using it.
Logical@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 125d
Unfortunately it doesn't really work that way where I'm from.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 124d
Typically, the website says "please confirm authorisation on your mobile phone".
birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 124d
Not all banks. Many provide a scanner for the user.
GOKUSHRM@mastodon.social · 5 pts · 125d
@Logical @throws_lemy can't u buy cheap 1+6t phone and install custom lineageos and use banking app? Or just use 2 phone's. One for only banking apps & personal stuff and other for social media or anything... Old blackberry for social call msg and everything. & old 1+6t (with lineageos) for banking apps
GMac@feddit.org · 12 pts · 125d
Reckon we are gonna need to see some how to guides for adb. I presume its like the linux terminal?
Einskjaldi@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 125d
It's pretty easy to use, you just need a USB cable. But it is a cli like terminal so you do want to search for how to use it and not just guess because you can delete files accidentally easier. But you always just start with 'adb devices' and that just lets you know if it's working.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 124d
It's software that runs in the terminal. It just lets you pass on commands to your device that go beyond what the graphical interface can do (or allows you to do, really).
axx@slrpnk.net · 10 pts · 124d
There's no such thing as "side loading", they literally made up that term some years back in a release of android tools (adb).
It's just installing software.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 125d
What if I disabled Play store and use Aurora and Fdroid for everything? Am I safe until I can afford to replace?
freeman@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 125d
I think it's on Google Play services so you need a rom with microG services.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub · 10 pts · 125d
I hate Google. They need to be broken down.
libre_warrior@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 124d
The term sideloading default google walldom software by making software outside seem more excotic and less safe.
We can combat this by reframing the terms and making them reflect reality. Calling to engage with google walldom as bloodletting as we are giving up some of our willforce to google, where blood is a symbol of willforce. We can frame to use software outside the google walldom as bearing, as in bearing the blood instead of letting it go.
Bloodletting is to install software by using a walled software store. Bearing is to install software by using unwalled software stores.
PetteriPano@lemmy.world · -35 pts · 126d
I'm developing an app as a side project, but testing can only happen meaningfully out in the field. I found a breaking bug yesterday, asked Claude to fix and deploy over remote session. I installed the update and continued ny testing session.
I sure wouldn't want that to go away.
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 126d
lol wut?