Google and his Darth Vader move

I'd be shocked if there was even 1 million people globally using fully de-googled phones tbh

A rounding error that many friends and family rely on for tech advice.

I actually got surprised how quick people around me reacted to remove/avoid the tracker before sharing url links for example.

Indeed. Users like us might think we are in larger amounts. But sadly enough we are the minority.

Same with Linux.

Well, Chinese people have phones, and they don't have Google either. Surely there is a way out of all this.

It's not always about "winning". Sometimes it's about what you do and what you become while doing it. Do I want to be able to influence google directly? Yes. Do I need to? No. I just need a big-enough community that shares my values, and it's OK for me that there's an even bigger community nearby that shares something else.

It's important. We're not doing an election.

Google still has all the opportunities to get a big "fuck you" instead of "line goes up". Why? Because when they fuck up an app on someone's phone that someone will have an option to switch away. Will everyone do it? No. But will enough people do it to send a wave of de-googling in motion? I hope so

A few billion? There are only 8 billion people on the planet and from what I understand, a few hundred don't own phones and a few hundred more use Apple. I may be wrong.

I work on an Android app for a small company. Google doesn't care at all about Android devs except if you're running a huge social media app or P2W game. I'm pretty sure they expect blowback from the OSS community and their plan is to simply ignore it.

Must be a US based/themed online "protest"

"We want something to change"

"We aren't going to do anything drastic for the change"

"Nothing changed? Oh well!"

They almost always seem like a controlled opposition set up to make people believe, gain support (artificially at first to deter competeting protests that are more radical), but once it gets popular it doesn't accomplish anything, won't listen to ideas, input and feedback from the community and fold as soon as they aren't required.

Is there a change to an app in Google TOCs that can get folk to get app from F-droid?

For example: "Free features for this app only available on play. New features and enhancements available (paid or) for free through f-droid." Or if you cannot openly advertise in the app, "Visit our website to get enhanced features and updates" with clear documentation on how to install and permit f-droid and get app through there.

That way, big app devs can create moves to f-droid, normalising it and chipping away at googles power. The more apps, the more legimate f-droid seems to normies.

Ideally done as soon before switchover as possible. Even reach out to content creators.

It moves from protest, to protest and solution.

If you or somebody will create this initiative, please create a post about it on Lemmy! (Or ping me here if you'll remember.) It's a good initiative! Worth the attention. I'd also be curious to know which developers have committed to the strike and which haven't.

Developers don’t want to strike because a strike means no pay because we are not unionized. It’s hard to unionize when it’s easy to find a new job for people. Our leverage is just leaving. But publishing on specific platforms don’t have that option.

That's great to hear. Good luck! I wish I could de-Google my family too.

I'm currently testing /e/OS from Murena myself, but on a Fairphone 6, not a Murena device. The system itself is fine. Takes some getting used to, but no problem. Hope you enjoy it =D

Murena is a great alternative. They have relatively cheap and ready-to-use models.

My brain just equates murena to Morena the birth control IUD and I have to pause to go wtf every time. I love that everyone is trying new things. That's how we build better options.

My plan exactly, but on a later schedule - end of the year for me. I'll go for the cheaper gs6

@qyron @AuroraSine
Murena with e/os then.
I've had one for 3 years.
Just fantastic

Ironically they're the top government surveillance camera manufacturer where I live on deflock

Update system,right? Sorry , things what are common for this commun,I am just learning.

Having to jailbreak an android phone... Fuck.

You would be surprised. Google privacy practices have a bad press. I'm hearing random people saying they got a "de-googled' phone at my local hairdresser. Also, the cheapest chinese model are not "Android-certified", so potentially also de-googled.

Sadly yes

When this was initially announced, and they said they wouldn't backtrack (which they have somewhat, for now), I actually did switch to an iPhone. I figured if Android was to be as closed as iOS I might as well try out iOS & see how it goes.

Hardware-wise, holy shit it's so nice, the device was bliss to use by comparison to my android phone.

But having ads on youtube, having a shit browser (since literally every browser on iOS is a different skin of Safari), it's so bad. I switched back to android in something like a month (my main use for my phone is watching youtube with Revanced).

Mind you, I'm in the EU, Apple has set up the 3rd party thingy in such an inconvenient way & with so little incentives for developers that there is nothing outside of the Epic Games Store.

If Android ever becomes like this, I think I might as well just switch back to a dumb phone.

Sooooo the way out, is to pay Google a thousand dollars for their phone......

Yes. Bonus if you get it used just make sure it's completely unlocked. A carrier phone is not unlocked and is a pain in be butt to get unlocked. I can't remember what instance it's on but there's a graphene community.

Edit it's !grapheneos@lemmy.ml I know some instances don't interact with .ML though

So, did I understood correctly that just getting pixel with GrapheneOS is way out?

I can't really say anything about that, sorry. I'm not familiar with GrapheneOS or Google Pixel. As far as I know, Play Services can apparently be installed in a sandbox?.... but I didn't quite get it either. So I can't say whether the system will be affected by Google's rules. Sorry I can't help further.

https://postmarketos.org/

it's a way out, probably the easiest and most reliable way, but not the only one.

Also you don't have to use graphene, it kind of annoys me that it keeps being pushed as THE option when lineageOS also works perfectly fine and has a long reputation as well..

I can't find the post, but I recall the Graphene developers saying this would not affect GrapheneOS because of the way they have play implemented. Play services on GrapheneOS is sandboxed, it does not have permission to enforce this check.

Not fully what you're asking but this was posted on their official Reddit

Google has already had to change how they plan on implementing their blocking app installs from unregistered developers after a lot of backlash. "Sideloading" will still be possible, as we've all learned from recent news. The 24 hour wait does add some friction to the whole process, which is the point of course, but it's far less bad than some people are trying to make it seem. 24 hours, then it's over and the user is free to install apps as they please.

This "sideloading" restriction is not even the biggest problem right now. Play Integrity is worse and does affect us directly. The effects of Play Integrity are showing up in multiple places, like now apps can't be installed via Play Store, maybe Aurora in the future, apps refuse to run, Play Integrity verdicts are worse if an app was installed via another source than Play Store, and Automatic Protection has Play Integrity features being added. It's a far bigger problem. It causes enough friction for some users that they give up on GrapheneOS or other non-GMS OSes to go back to whatever stock OS they had before, one complete with Google apps with privileged access and awful privacy. This other issue just got a lot more attention, and I'm guessing because it's easier for people to fully understand.

We have been in touch with EU regulators about Play Integrity and I hope that can continue in the future. Google isn't going to change things because a small group of people are complaining. We need regulators to help with big issues. We need to find a way to make them understand what is happening. Play Integrity is a big example of them locking things down under the guise of "security." Fixating on other smaller issues is, in my opinion, less effective and a waste of time and resources. The "sideloading" thing has enough attention and opponents to the change have had some success.

Hey, honestly I don't know much about GrapheneOS. I only know it's available for Google Pixels. But you're right. All Google-certified devices will be 'locked down!'

You do not need to install Play services on Graphene. You can. You can also install MicroG, or you can skip both and use NextPush or ntfy.

An afaik undocumented workaround isn't exactly evoking trust, particularly coming from Google. Also wtf 24h cooldown to install shit on my own device?!

They said that, but similarly with how they said they delayed switching their extension API after backlash (they'd break adblockers), they ended up doing it later on. That's what they're counting on here as well, unless there's a lot of loud backlash and this hits their bottom line they will eventually eliminate that option down the line imo. They have every incentive to do so.

I'd rather see non-proprietary mobile Linux like postmarketOS, Mobian, or Ubuntu Touch.

I'm thinking of taking a government job and why is that you have to do that as part of a US job? What if I just show them I got a flip phone, what will they do?

Can't you use your gmail account inside a standard mailing app like Thunderbird? As for the other google services, maybe they work in browser?

Is there a program or a way to tell what apps currently on ones phone will be affected by this?

Hi.

As far as I know, there is no program with which you can check this.

But, I know that for example F-Droid apps on Google-certified devices will no longer be usable, because these apps are not registered in the Play Store. According to the KeepAndroidOpen page, this will no longer work.

I want to add: According to the Samsung Galaxy Store Seller Portal, apps that are already installed will remain usable, just without updates.

Hopes, that helped.

other people are posting their experiences with degoogling on lemmy and that's how i stay informed.

Is your OS stock with Google on it? Change that software to something without Google

I started the journey about a year ago. Huge boon to my life even if I don't work anywhere near tech.

Hey. I'm trying to see everything positively though. I know its sucks, and im angry too. But how secure can a Google-certified device be AGAINST GOOGLE anyway? I could only deactivate the systems, which is why I wanted to buy an /e/OS device. And the news from F-Droid that Google was going to pull this shit was the kick in the ass I needed to finally buy a Fairphone with /e/OS.

what do you mean? what would you have the community do?

we're not "fucked", things will continue working just the same on any phone without Play Services installed.

This is a shitty situation but let's not pretend like it's the doomsday.. Even after it goes into effect android will still be incomparably more open than ios

I believe you may mean Darth Vader.....

😅You're right. Thanks for the correction!

You have a good point. I also know many of people who have no clue about this. I talked a lot about this but they dont care. Anyway for me, every setback, even if it's just a brief blip for Google is a triumph. Of course , a longer triumph will be great, but yeah.. that is just my openion. And thanks again, for the Darth Vader Correction 👍🏻

Graphene

Whether in the US or elsewhere, no, unless you're willing to make major concessions (like not having banking apps)

The best you can do is a de-googled android, but even that is getting tricky with some apps

@BeerStainedBunny @AuroraSine
https://doc.e.foundation/devices

what part of him being finnish-american has influenced his decision making?

Fdroid is exactly what they're about to block

This isn't stopping apps from outside the Play Store, internal apps can still be distributed internally (downloading an APK from a website for example). But these apps now have to be signed by a developer verified by Google. This happens by registering on Google Play, uploading the app, giving Google all the info, and then just not publishing the app on Google Play.

Adb will continue to work

Problem is you don't get a choice

it's a 1984 move

Step 1: Personally identify all deveopers

Step 2: Make impossible to run software from non-identified developers

Step 3: Maintain full control over all software, What? You want to make a Youtube substitute? Blocked.