Young people just don’t understand saving, and how your options expand after saving even just a little bit. Use this post as an example - if you put that $100-130 away every month, in about 6 months you can afford a gun. This gives you a lot more opportunities.
Minimum wage is not supposed to maintain the expenses of an adult! Stop being lazy and act your age, leave that comfy minimum wage job, actually learn a trade like carpentry or something and build a device to separate heads from the rest of the body.
Great Lakes rust belt. Okay well maybe rent is actually $2200 and utilities are $450, but the others aren't too far off if you put in the work to find deals. So maybe those figures were circa 2009. That only leaves you what, $1k in debt each month with zero spending money? Not so bad for one of the most affordable major urbanized regions, right? /s
I'm in a major city with lots of tech companies and getting unaffordable every year. Having said that, utilities, phone, and internet are doable, BUT with caveats:
You can still find a $1200 1-BR apartment, but it might not be in a great area in the city. So I agree this is not ideal even though it's possible.
You can spend less than $100 on electricity and water in a 1-bedroom apartment because the utility provider is regulated. Once you get out of their coverage (outside city limits), it gets expensive pretty quick. My monthly bill back when I was living in an apartment was around $60-$70.
Fiber internet (500 Mbps) can be as low as $30-$45. You just have to keep calling every renewal either to ask for a promo rate, or threaten to switch so they offer to get you back to the introductory price. I hate that it has to be like this, but it's possible.
A pre-paid carrier like Mint or US Mobile can cost as low as $15 a month, but you'll have limited data. If you don't really need much internet while out and about, then it won't really be much of an issue.
Transportation is definitely the problem, and $300 a month won't cut it. Public transpo barely exists and you'll likely have a car payment and insurance, which will eat up your monthly budget. And yeah, $350 for food isn't enough anymore.
This isn't in any way a defence of low wages, but phone, internet, and food can all be had for cheaper depending on location, and if public transportation or close walking proximity to resources and employment are available, that can be significantly less too.
That still leaves too little extra to do any activities that cost money, survive an emergency situation, or save for retirement.
Hampton Roads, VA. I'm in Newport News. $1375 for a two bedroom apartment, although water/sewer is nearly $200/mo and electric is around that as well. We're barely scraping by.
Whoever wrote the meme lives in a blue state that increased it, and will never think to care about any of the permanent underclass of flyover morlocks in other states.
... Who keep voting in people who make no secret of actively wanting to make their lives worse because they promise to hurt the outsiders of constantly varying form.
I am helpless to do anything other than offer my well wishes and suggest you arm yourself, as is your country's custom. I fear it's going to get a lot worse yet.
And in the state of Wyoming, you can actually have a minimum wage below the federal minimum, of a mighty $5.15/hour. I don't know how common it it, as I think a business can't get away with it if they receive any federal funding, but it is technically legal for them to pay you less than $7.25/hour in some circumstances, aside from the lower wage for tipped workers.
Most jobs in my area pay $11-$13. It isn't $7, but it isn't $15 either. Also, who can manage transportation on $300? I spend that much in fuel. This meme paints WAY too easy of a picture. Life is much harder than that in most of the US. I see people from developing nations saying Americans are spoiled because they're so rich, but what they think is rich is absolutely destitute poor here. You'll likely be homeless and hungry if all you earn is $30k/year.
You're been wrong at every turn because you're the shining example the embodiment of the dunning-kruger effect. So confidently incorrect even with literal research at your fingertips that you refuse to use.
Actually, the financial system that oppresses people is totally great, and it's not even that oppressive anyway! Only a few thousand people die from it every year, and that's completely acceptable from my perspective because I'm not in that situation.
Are you proud of your arguments here? Do they make you feel like a valuable person? Does this genre of viewpoint make your friends and family happy to have you around? Just a few questions for you to entertain because you seem content that others are miserable.
You couldn't be more wrong. I make less than I made 25 years ago, and I'm not even close to minimum. Jobs around me mostly hire at $11-12. Maybe $16 if you're a welder or something.
I had an apartment that was 1200 a month in Southeast Michigan a few years ago. It was the cheapest two-bedroom around because it was pretty poorly maintained.
In my area right now you cannot rent an apartment unless you show proof you have income 3x rent. So that 1200 apartment wouldn't be possible because they make less than 3600
how is it sustainable? it's not. and that's by design. American politicians and billionaires want it this way. they want the divide. the more poor you are the more likely you are to serve them. slavery never disappeared from the US. the 'American dream' has been dead for decades.
If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.
Lyndon B. Johnson
It works for poor versus rich too. Convince their depressed earnings are due to immigrants, etc. and they'll attack them and (not us rich folks). It's a redirection by the rich.
Well... It's not sustainable for the person making $15 an hour, but it's certainly is for the person paying that person $15 an hour and I think that those are the only people that we should be caring about.
Listen you got to work 6 days a week and go to church on Sundays. That's how it's supposed to work. That extra 20-30 bucks you get at the end of the month, collection plate.
Then you can die quietly at 55 and somebody can take your place.
It was never sustainable, it was a hack to keep people from demanding unions. There's plenty of countries with no minimum wage and well paid workers. It takes strong unions and labor protection laws, which is why the fascists will fight it to the death.
It was never implemented in the first place. What was intended never happened. Probably for the best honestly. Minimum wage is a poor way to accomplish a living wage, the only advantage it has, is political expediency.
Sweden here, we have unions but no legal minimum wage.
For all the good, there's still too many companies not unionized which mostly affects young people and foreigners with shit wages at shit jobs and with no legal minimum and far lower momentum for unionization these days these people don't have a lot of leverage, stuck living with parents or in other shitty conditions to afford anything.
If you're in a job with a good union it can be nice, but not all people have that luck.
I understand that since you're working 400 less hours per year, with a months more vacation, and paid parental leave on a job that's much more difficult to get fired on you might still have complaints.
But seriously, the tiny fractions of a problem that still exist in the Swedish labor market, wouldn't even make rounding errors in the US. There are always going to be problems, and lots of arguments about how to fix them. Most people in the US, would much rather have Swedish labor market problems to argue about.
Many, if not most, restaurant server jobs still pay $2 - $4 per hour. Like that's the official rate and they're just allowed to not pay you, since you'll probably receive tips. And that's legal somehow.
My personal conspiracy theory behind the covid-era spread of tipping culture was to get employees to accept tips as a part of their income. Once it reaches a certain threshold you're legally allowed to pay the real minimum wage because the rest is subsidized by the customer.
Cash tips are pretty rare now though and paid via card those tips are getting reported and taxed. Plus the employer has to pay you minimum wage if your tips + wage < min wage so employers were definitely making sure employees reported enough tips even in an all cash environment.
And any positions that are paying minimum wage aren't hiring full time for those positions, that means more than one job which increases transportation costs and reduces free time.
And they do that so they don't have to provide health insurance, which means the employee will have to pay for their own and thats expensive. Highly predatory.
This is a reason I feel like public health care should be a bipartisan issue. Business people should love not having to do health insurance for employees.
There was this commercial in the 90's, I think it was burger king. About a young guy doing his budget, it included $19/mo for gas, and it came out to "a dollar a day for lunch? More than enough!" For a 99 cent cheeseburger. That budget was laughable at the time but it's insane today.
Even if they had an extra $500 per month somehow, it's not enough to just survive. For one thing, if you're human, you need to at least entertain the possibility of vacations.
Why can't we expect people to survive AND to have a decent quality of life?
And we need to be clear that “vacations” does not mean travelling. People will do basic tourist crap in Italy and call themselves worldly, whatever. But people do need money to just exist in their own space without working for a week(longer, obviously). People can’t even be tourists in their own cities and towns.
Businesses should try thinking about people on minimum wage as CUSTOMERS. Because that what they are. People who now can't afford to eat out, buy new clothes, take up a hobby, join a gym, spend a weekend at the lake, pay rent...
They lay off thousands of workers, replace them with AI or self checkouts, or move manufacturing to China, then bitch about how no-one is buying their product. Get a clue!
60 bucks for a phone a month and you call that "minimum wage poor"? While just using 350 for food? The most important factor in life?
I drown in money and use a 8yr old phone and pay 7 moneyz a month for a generous contract.
I would consider a 60 buck monthly budget for a stupid phone outrageously wild.
$60 is the standard price for the highest tier unlimited data plans.
Nevermind that with the ubiquity of WiFi, unlimited data isn't really necessary for most people; Most people still just assume they need that.
I agree. I'm on Mint (edit: mobile service haha) getting like 2GB a month and never reach that because I barely use this cursed rectangle off WiFi. Lol
Cachyos and opensuse here, but at least those are at home only so I don't need mobile. The updates alone would probably fill some more gig otherwise. But still far from 30.
Whoops, I meant mint the cell service, but OpenSUSE mentioned let's GOOOO!!! :D
Been hearing a ton about Cachy, gotta check it out! I'm trying to figure out a solid distro to put my less-techy gamers in the family on. It's likely between Cachy or OpenSuse...slowroll or leap is the question. 🤔
Oh lol, never heard of mint in that context 😁
For gaming there's no question I'd say => cachy. They're always up2date and everything works. On suse I had more probs, but I don't game on that device so I chose it because German 😁
Also pacman beats zyppr. By speed at least. It's so fucking slow it drives me mad...
And then you get paru on top. Guess I would choose cachy (or other arch-based) for nongaming too.
60 buck monthly phone budget is something that will sound reasonable to the policymakers. "Food budget", however, is completely abstract and negotiable. People who never had to count what they spend on food will argue that everyone can permanently live on the cheapest food items they've ever heard of. Don't forget that according to Fox News, you can eat a whole Thanksgiving dinner for $10. It's dumb, but that's how they think, so you have to meet them there if you want to try and get through to them and make a difference.
To be honest, I don't have any precise clue about food prices either. Our cook buys it. If he all uses it for food or not, we don't know and don't check.
But I'm also aware that 10 bucks probably won't buy shit anywhere in the capitalist world. And surely no dinner. Here (germany) you can buy 6 buns for 10 bucks. We just did and I thought i slept for 3 decades or so. It was 0.10 per bun when I was younger.
Still 60 bucks for a bit...mobile data? I pay 120 for 5x1gbit at home. And for half of it I could use a fraction of it outside? Sounds bonkers. Or maybe I'm just a cheapskate 😁
Pretty close $24.85 adjusted for inflation for today. But even inflation indexing seems a little iffy when things like housing have been outpacing the general rate.
And your entire civilization hasn't collapsed from the weight of fairly paying all those unwashed workers?!?!? Absolutely shocking. Somebody should tell our policy people! They'll be thrilled at this news! /s
They're as naive as someone just putting together that minimum wage en masse isn't sustainable when it's a punishing poverty wage. Its a shanty wage...if that.
Same as Op. I pay about $10-20 a month for cell service. I'm mostly on wifi anyways.
This isn't a "don't buy Starbucks and you can afford a home" tip. More like... Don't pay AT&T/Verizon/whatever fucking company any more than you have to because these motherfuckers all give money to ICE.
Water is paid twice a year, averages out to like £10 a month, its cheap enough I don't pay much attention to it.
So about £500-600 left.
But I live with my partner, so half all of those costs by splitting it. Phone/food stay the same by having twice as much, although bulk buying food probably makes it a bit less than 2x
We need to start taking to the streets my friends and just take what you need. Fuck corporate America. I’m gonna take what I want and throw what I think it’s worth on the counter on the way out. Who’s gonna stop me. I need food and clothes for me and my kids. You gonna fucking stop me? The fucking guy checking receipts gonna stop me? No it’s gonna be the Karen bitch that voted for trump and I’m gonna Sparta kick that hoe out my way
The crazy part: its propped up by the ultra wealthy in a country with more guns than people. When this shit does hit the fan, the violence will be on another level.
If you are 1 bad month away from losing everything why are you making £400/month car payments. Over £200 a month on food delivery. £90 a month phone contract. £150 a month on TV and streaming services.
These are real people I know. Like yeah the economy isn't great but you are not helping yourself. Cut back a bit and you could easily build up enough savings to cover several months if something bad was to happen.
Actually suggesting these things to people is really difficult though. They immediately become defensive and try to justify all these luxuries as needs.
They can technically afford them all, but it leaves them with absolutely nothing at the end of the month. As if they are actively trying to spend everything before they get paid.
I'll venture a guess: I'd personally define it as so called "gainful employment", as in, if you're not blowing all your money frivelously, you should be making enough to reasonably sandbag against disaster or improve your own circumstances by saving.
But everything sure is upside down. Assuming somebody makes enough to get by comfortably, savings accounts don't outpace inflation.
So if you don't want your hard earned money decaying year over year (and faster, lately!) this forces you to put your money into the stock market, which is a whole complicated game with esoteric rules and a high possibility that your deposit might be worth way less if you need to pull that money.
So I guess "getting ahead" can be: "Still coming out relatively positive after various powerful and interested parties have coerced our funds into their pockets."
Loan sharks love this desperation of that $23-33/mo in the budget for clothes, etc.
The cars are bloated in price too. They aren't selling you the car, they're selling you the loan/payment plan. You ever notice how they don't like hearing, "I can't afford this," it's "Get X with only $/mo"
That's why the 2008 Recession occurred, the subprime mortgage -- people who were risky to begin with were cut mortgages; the liquidity of the bottom workers flopped, and it echoed up the financial food chain. And it's predatory as hell. The same shit happens to student loans. Students yearn for higher education to improve their lives, and when they leave, they can't find jobs so the liquidity flops again. The problem with education debt is that it is non-dischargable; you can't go bankrupt on student loans. WTF?!?!?!
This lines up pretty well where I live and I’m in a major metro area (San Antonio). Rent would get you something pretty small though but not impossible. Food, phone and internet are about spot on for what I pay currently. Utilities for a small studio/1br track about there. Transportation is a bit off depending on if you own a car or not.
But regardless, even if the numbers are close, it just drives the point home that much more.
minimum wage in every state is $7.25 due to it being the federal minimum wage. it's just that a few blue states made local laws making non-federal jobs have a higher state minimum wage in cities (emphasis on cities only). -- but these states also raised the city tax to compensate which cancels out half of the minimum wage raise.
but it's better than red states where many filthy republicans have been trying to introduce laws lowering the minimum wage while still increasing taxes.
In honor of labor day and all those who sacrificed for better working conditions I’ve been thinking of ways to make our voices heard. I think protesting at FAA air traffic facilities is a great option. If we keep controllers from accessing their jobs the air space shuts down. This would be a huge blow to Trump!
Let me explore how we organize these protests. The beauty is most of these employees are sick of going to work because they HATE TRUMP! They just need to see the public is on their side and we need to give them a reason to not show up for work! Air traffic controllers think their duty is to go to work and pretend everything is normal, if we protest right in front of them they will know the public wants them to act!
We will also not hurt the individual. The air traffic centers where there is a higher volume of controllers are paid very well. They also have great union benefits. Including leave pay called “weather leave”, which is usually time paid for absence from work due to adverse conditions. Well protests right outside their workplace is an adverse condition and the union will make sure the federal government pays the individual if they can’t make it to work!
So how do we organize this. I think we should target the air traffic centers “ARTCC”. These are large radar facilities where 100+ employees work every day. They have one gate access point. You can start off small, just on the sidewalk with signage expressing that serving Trump is shitting on the Constitution (this is a common debate between federal employees now) This can be as small as 1 person just out there on the sidewalk peacefully holding up a sign. Totally legal.
Now if we have enough numbers we can start “crossing the street” protests. Pedestrians legally are allowed to cross the street in front of the entrances to these centers and we can utilize slow walking speeds to delay entry to employees. Usually this should be done between 6-9am and 2-6pm as those are shift change hours.
Finally a lot of controllers may find other reasons to not show up to work. Emotional distress, lack of sleep, or fatigue are all Union protected reasons controllers could get PAID time off while we the people protest against the trump regime. Once the administration is deposed the worker individual can return to work normally with little impact to their financial situation!
So this is my protest idea. It’s one way to affect Trump adversely, a lot of federal employees are sick of this shit, THEY JUST NEED A REASON SO LET’S SHOW THEM WE WANT THEM TO FUCK TRUMP OVER
So you read all this and you’re still thinking “oh well nothing near me and I can’t do much” Well you probably do have a FAA airport near you with a control tower, you can protest there, or many other agencies that are run by the federal government. Finally you can copy this and spread it. You can edit it if you need to but just spread this idea.
Life in the USA cannot continue to go on as if this is all normal, something has to break! It’s Labor day weekend as I write this, let’s demonstrate labor still has the fucking power!
Not gonna lie, the numbers people sometimes pull up for similar arguments are usually fudged in some way, but not a single number they used sounds wrong.
15 an hour isn't unheard of, minimum for my state isn't even close to that, some of my coworkers make that. Rent for my place is much more. I spend way more on food, bills, utilities, etc. I'm not in a very high-income or high-cost place, it's the outskirts of a small industrial city, and I'd say those numbers are skewed to cost less than what they actually wind up costing me.
If your rent is that low you're clearly not in the US. Why would people with rock bottom cost of living need higher wages? Sounds like you're living like a king compared to bthe working class here.
Yeah.
Thanks to the income/expense situation being a little bit less unbalanced over here.
Also thanks to the relative ease there is, to get politicians to implement work reform, as compared to the US (not that any of the work reform laws would apply to me).
I understand your thinking, but I think the argument is to RAISE the minimum wage. So all 30 million of those people you referenced would get better-paying jobs immediately.
Yes. But the opposition to raising minimum wage is usually that those people should just get better jobs. My point was that argument is invalid as it’s not possible.
When I was living in Seattle I figured about $100k would be a reasonable minimum there. That's just enough to not constantly stress about money, do things like going to the doctor and dentist, you can have some joys in life, and save towards long term goals. It can't get you anything fancy you still need to live modestly but you can actually live not just survive
I'm in a state where minimum is under $11 and yes lots of people earn minimum. I moved out when minimum was around $4, I made maybe $0.15 over minimum. I had two roommates and we lived in a really terrible neighborhood but we made it work. I walked to work back then. Where I live now, walking or biking are not options. It just keeps getting worse.
For my argument, assume that the American Dollar has utterly failed, and a new currency is invented. The numbers make much more sense in an engineered economy, rather than one that has inherited technical debt from millennia of worker-employer relations.
00000
I think the way forward is to rework income to be a floor and ceiling, with jobs being assigned ranks. By doing this, we can limit the maximum amount of money that people can make - and in turn, the economy will 'rubberband', according to what income brackets that goods and services are priced for.
A national review board sets what rank a job class falls into. East coast, west coast, Hawaii, all the same exact pay annually. Workers don't negotiate for higher pay with their employers, and the employers can't set standards or expectations for what they pay. This prevents employers from abusing people through 'circumstances', or using promotions as a stick, and so on.
Ranks are based on the effort, risk, and knowledge that a role entails. The national board uses research to determine what a job type requires asks of people.
Below is an example of what I would like rankings to be.
Rank 0 - Citizens get a UBI of $10,000 annually. This is replaced by other ranks when working.
Rank S - Students receive $10,000 to $20,000 according to grades. All levels of education pay money.
Rank 1 - Waiters and cashiers, receive $20,000 annually.
Rank 2 - Journalists, sex workers, caretakers, game developers, actors. $40k.
Leadership positions give Rank 2 during the first three months after being voted into place, but workers below the leader vote for pay rank, and may also elect to remove the leadership position or to replace the person there. So worker satisfaction is tied to whether or not a leader gets a decent income.
On top of that, everybody should get a fixed amount of hours they may work each day. If they work even just an hour, they still get a full day's pay. Each worker is capped at 9 hours a day, and can only do 5 days of work a week. 45 hours total each week.
People earn a 1:1 ratio of retirement benefits based on hours worked for a given rank. So someone who worked a full year at Rank 1 has $20,000 in benefits paid by the workplace. These benefits are only in effect when going on paid vacation, sick leave, fired, or in retirement. A business that goes under or is bought, has its obligations passed to government or to the new owner. Citizenship UBI is replaced by benefit income ranks, starting with the best payout rank.
Companies that use AI to displace workers, have to pay into a government fund. This fund is used to give ranked UBI to citizens, paying them for a job they can no longer obtain. A company's limit on wealth and assets is based on employee headcount or the amount of citizen UBI it is paying for, anything beyond the limit is 100% confiscated by government, with penalties if the excess is found to be deliberate. Local and federal government split the confiscation 50-50.
Individual people have limits on liquid wealth and assets. Non-citizens have $50,000 caps on each pool, and a citizen a $100,000 cap for each. Any amount of wealth beyond these limits are confiscated by the government. This helps prevent the development of millionaires and billionaires.
Universal services offer free healthcare, generic supplies and food, free basic shelter and transport. Money is used for buying lifestyle upgrades, such as fancier clothing, bigger housing, restaurant food, ect. Corporations have to compete against these free products, by offer better quality.
Hypothetically, the 'banding' of incomes like this would also prevent or mitigate inflation, because wealth distortions and labor manipulation would be curtailed. By making incomes predictable, the markets can price goods accordingly.
I think this still ties too much of a person's income to employment. I'd personally prefer a much more aggressive UBI (like around 80-100k in today's dollars), with heavy progressive taxes (up to 100%) on any other income. The idea is that with advances in productivity and automation, there's just not enough jobs for everyone, and that's a good thing. It frees us from actually having to work.
inflation is actually a good thing. It discourages just hoarding money under a mattress, and encourages re-investment.
I have a slide deck that includes taxes and whatnot. They are divided into two pieces for individuals: "Social" and "Cultural" tax. The Social Tax pays for roads and other communal goods, with taxpayers being able to use an app or website to assign what projects the money goes towards: Potholes for a certain street, playgrounds, ect. The cultural tax is a form of crowdfunding, where the taxpayer can assign the tax towards projects that promote culture - festivals, games in development, TV shows, ect. Failure of the taxpayer to earmark their taxes, has the government using them as a discretionary fund.
The way I figure, this encourages individuals to think about their society, and gives them a pool of money that they can't spend on themselves. The government gets the bulk of its discretionary taxes from the regulation of companies.
0000
The system I outlined, already forces people to not hoard money: The absolute caps on wealth and assets makes them inclined to spend their money, else it would overflow, and that excess collected by the government. We want people to have enough money to have a big buffer for major expenses, while also encouraging regular spending.
Plus, universal services and free generic goods encourages the spending of money. People will focus their funds towards what they want, and be economical in the spots they don't care about. This is a bit different from what we have today, because people are currently obligated to pay for their food, utilities, goods, services, and so on. By offering free but boring options, society allows people to focus their investments on the things that interest them.
Personally, I feel like the gap is too large between the top earners and the bottom earners. The minimum is 10% of the maximum. And this is cumulative so every year that passes the rich are getting richer. I am fine with a system where people who do more for society make more currency but the wealth divide shouldn't be this drastic IMHO.
Today's American elite have considerably greater wealth gaps than what I described for the system. There is roughly a 400% to 1,100% difference between a minimum wage worker and an executive, before considering things like stocks and options.
0000
Since there are absolute wealth caps and the rule is that only one income stream can be active, there is essentially a soft limit on accumulating benefits. People who earn enough benefits from work, are likely to retire or go on vacation - which leaves a vacuum for other people to fill up, who in turn earn enough benefits to move on, and repeat. The people with stockpiled benefits also create opportunities for new businesses to crop up, since they would need things to keep them busy - an ambition, touring to see the land, activities, and so forth. This creates jobs due to demand, thus creating new upper ranks that need to be filled.
Students earn money from learning, which means they can comfortably obtain the qualifications to obtain better paying ranks. Thus, there are many people who can enter the upper ranks. Due to universal services, people can wait for jobs without danger - and people who work, can leave jobs if the work conditions suck. So there is a lot more mobility for income seekers.
0000
While I very much doubt that the proposed Universal Living system to be an panacea, the important thing is to enact something considerably better than what we currently have. Perfection isn't the goal, since that requires a lot more understanding of economics than humanity has learned up to this point.
Unfortunately, there is an issue with making teachers the highest paying job: the sheer number of them needed. The system would probably break under that. 😕
That's about right from my experience in the midwestern USA. Went looking at options for apartments in this area alongside a lesser populated area prior to moving here at the start of this year. I'm not in some high-income zone, it's predominantly manufacturing around here. My apartment costs 1451/mo, and it was the cheapest I could find out of the options I was open to accepting. I recall seeing apartments as cheap as 1130/mo, but those were apartments in a reeeeeeallly sketchy area, and I can't say I was particularly open to that if I have the option to go elsewhere.
Edited for clarity
Also another edit: This is less rigorous and more rooted in what I've experienced, but when I had a friend from Italy over here in 2022-2023, I recount him commenting a few times on how high the costs for things are. He didn't use words like "Cost of Living" per se, but would speak on how he doesn't get how we can live with things being as expensive as they are. Not to completely shame the system, he did mention a few luxuries of living here that he doesnt have over there, but things were very skewed toward "How tf can you afford this shit?" Case in point, he could afford to fly overseas with a less-than-luxourious job, at the time, I could not.
Indeed that seems really expensive from a western european point of view, I wish we could speak more about this when we talk about the US economy, and not the GDP growth being higher or some other dumb things. Europe often sees the US as an economic compass, but I couldn't tell your situation was so worrying before signing up on Lemmy.
To comparison, my income has been 460€ per month (social scholarship) for a long time, my rent being around 200€ but with the allowances I was only paying 40. And the minimum wages here is 1477€ net (around 9€ per hour), so I was very very poor.
With healthcare, I could take care of my chronic illness without spending anything, and I could eat pretty normally and even have some hobbies. Since uni is free for poor people (170€ per year for everyone else), I didn't have to pay for anything aside from my classic expenses.
With a full time work, you're litterally poorer than an alone ill student without any other income than social allowance in france.
I hope your situation will get better, go unionize and that kind of stuff, don't stay alone, and a big good luck
185 Comments
OakTree@lemmy.zip · 122 pts · 1d
Young people just don’t understand saving, and how your options expand after saving even just a little bit. Use this post as an example - if you put that $100-130 away every month, in about 6 months you can afford a gun. This gives you a lot more opportunities.
anon_8675309@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 1d
I was about to get pissed. Now I’m cheering.
Colonel_Panic_@eviltoast.org · 21 pts · 1d
Back in my day I could go to the corner store and get chips and a soda and a magazine and whatever I wanted. Now they have security cameras.
boobookittyfrick@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 1d
spirinolas@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1d
Minimum wage is not supposed to maintain the expenses of an adult! Stop being lazy and act your age, leave that comfy minimum wage job, actually learn a trade like carpentry or something and build a device to separate heads from the rest of the body.
baines@lemmy.cafe · 5 pts · 1d
fire is universal
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
Young people don't have any income. How can they understand savings?
And another six months before you can afford bullets.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 60 pts · 1d
Are these prices from 1999? Where in the US can you get anywhere close to these rates? Certainly not near any major city.
Deconceptualist@leminal.space · 26 pts · 1d
Great Lakes rust belt. Okay well maybe rent is actually $2200 and utilities are $450, but the others aren't too far off if you put in the work to find deals. So maybe those figures were circa 2009. That only leaves you what, $1k in debt each month with zero spending money? Not so bad for one of the most affordable major urbanized regions, right? /s
scytale@piefed.zip · 15 pts · 1d
I'm in a major city with lots of tech companies and getting unaffordable every year. Having said that, utilities, phone, and internet are doable, BUT with caveats:
You can still find a $1200 1-BR apartment, but it might not be in a great area in the city. So I agree this is not ideal even though it's possible.
You can spend less than $100 on electricity and water in a 1-bedroom apartment because the utility provider is regulated. Once you get out of their coverage (outside city limits), it gets expensive pretty quick. My monthly bill back when I was living in an apartment was around $60-$70.
Fiber internet (500 Mbps) can be as low as $30-$45. You just have to keep calling every renewal either to ask for a promo rate, or threaten to switch so they offer to get you back to the introductory price. I hate that it has to be like this, but it's possible.
A pre-paid carrier like Mint or US Mobile can cost as low as $15 a month, but you'll have limited data. If you don't really need much internet while out and about, then it won't really be much of an issue.
Transportation is definitely the problem, and $300 a month won't cut it. Public transpo barely exists and you'll likely have a car payment and insurance, which will eat up your monthly budget. And yeah, $350 for food isn't enough anymore.
BassTurd@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
This isn't in any way a defence of low wages, but phone, internet, and food can all be had for cheaper depending on location, and if public transportation or close walking proximity to resources and employment are available, that can be significantly less too.
That still leaves too little extra to do any activities that cost money, survive an emergency situation, or save for retirement.
daychilde@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Hampton Roads, VA. I'm in Newport News. $1375 for a two bedroom apartment, although water/sewer is nearly $200/mo and electric is around that as well. We're barely scraping by.
vrek@programming.dev · 3 pts · 1d
I live in a suburb of a large city. These might be higher since it's me, gf, and kid. Rent with all included fees: 1850
Utilities(basically just electric): 200-400 per month depending on weather
Phone : 40 per month(had to buy phone out of pocket first)
Food: 400-600 recently with only groceries no eating out
Transportation(gas for car): 100 minimum
Car insurance: 275 (no tickets, 1 accident 4 years ago but I was found 0% at fault)
Car payment: 350 (paid off next month)
Total(check my math I did it in my head) 3250 per month for essentials
voytrekk@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 1d
I live in a decent sized city in the US and I would say the only thing low might be transportation. Rent here can be lower, so they would offset.
Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz · 42 pts · 1d
Federal minimum is still $7.25
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
Whoever wrote the meme lives in a blue state that increased it, and will never think to care about any of the permanent underclass of flyover morlocks in other states.
Fluke@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 1d
... Who keep voting in people who make no secret of actively wanting to make their lives worse because they promise to hurt the outsiders of constantly varying form.
Stupid does as stupid is.
Trev625@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 1d
There are also non-idiots in these states. It's much more of a urban/rural divide. Please save us...
Fluke@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 1d
I am helpless to do anything other than offer my well wishes and suggest you arm yourself, as is your country's custom. I fear it's going to get a lot worse yet.
Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 21h
Also a result of unfettered corruption and indoctrination
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 14h
Also a lot of people who can't afford to move
hraegsvelmir@ani.social · 5 pts · 1d
And in the state of Wyoming, you can actually have a minimum wage below the federal minimum, of a mighty $5.15/hour. I don't know how common it it, as I think a business can't get away with it if they receive any federal funding, but it is technically legal for them to pay you less than $7.25/hour in some circumstances, aside from the lower wage for tipped workers.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 1d
The federal minimum wage is $7.25, something like 20 states don't pay a higher wage.
... and many are paid much, much less than that, like working prisoners, making less than a dollar an hour.
... and also many farm workers are paid much, much less than federal "minimum".
Millions of people. The more you look, the more people you will find making laughable wages.
doingthestuff@lemy.lol · 13 pts · 1d
Most jobs in my area pay $11-$13. It isn't $7, but it isn't $15 either. Also, who can manage transportation on $300? I spend that much in fuel. This meme paints WAY too easy of a picture. Life is much harder than that in most of the US. I see people from developing nations saying Americans are spoiled because they're so rich, but what they think is rich is absolutely destitute poor here. You'll likely be homeless and hungry if all you earn is $30k/year.
heartSagan5@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
You're welcome to post the calculus for your area. It is overly simple, but the point is correct. The economics are atrocious.
boaratio@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 1d
Minimum wage isn't $15 an hour.
Colonel_Panic_@eviltoast.org · 25 pts · 1d
Minimum Wage isn't even livable!
Uses DOUBLE the minimum wage and it STILL isn't livable
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 1d
Rent isn't $1200/mo either.
All of these numbers are years out of date
boaratio@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
When I graduated college in 2004 I rented a 1 bedroom shit box for $1200. I can't imagine how bad it is for renters today. Also, fuck "land lords."
tabularasa@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d
It is in some parts of the country, to be fair. But the minority for sure.
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 1d
It’s higher than $15 in most places
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 1d
Literally five seconds to find. Now count how many places are over 15.
angband@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1d
Only five states have minimum wage above 15. Only 8 total are at 15 or higher. According to this: https://wagebystate.com/minimum-wage/
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world · -20 pts · 1d
And most major metro areas have their own minimum wage separate from the state.
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1d
Jesus, just stop typing.
You're been wrong at every turn because you're the shining example the embodiment of the dunning-kruger effect. So confidently incorrect even with literal research at your fingertips that you refuse to use.
It's embarrassing.
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world · -22 pts · 1d
Listen, I don’t give a fuck about what the rural hicks make. Where most people live, in cities, the minimum wage is significantly higher.
Further, virtually nobody makes minimum wage anyway. Fewer than 1%.
ExperiencedWinter@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
You attempted to move the goalposts twice in a single comment, impressive.
ignominous_wombat@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1d
Actually, the financial system that oppresses people is totally great, and it's not even that oppressive anyway! Only a few thousand people die from it every year, and that's completely acceptable from my perspective because I'm not in that situation.
Are you proud of your arguments here? Do they make you feel like a valuable person? Does this genre of viewpoint make your friends and family happy to have you around? Just a few questions for you to entertain because you seem content that others are miserable.
angband@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Nope. currently, 67 counties and cities do: https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/inventory-of-us-city-and-county-minimum-wage-ordinances/
And half the population lives in what are considered "rural" areas.
Edit: I guess that last part isn't true anymore. Only 20%.
Steve@communick.news · 1 pts · 21h
How many?
Which ones?
boaratio@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Just gonna leave this here. Federal Minimum Wage
doingthestuff@lemy.lol · 4 pts · 1d
You couldn't be more wrong. I make less than I made 25 years ago, and I'm not even close to minimum. Jobs around me mostly hire at $11-12. Maybe $16 if you're a welder or something.
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 1d
Lmao fucking what. McDonald’s starts at $18.
Steve@communick.news · 2 pts · 21h
McDonalds isn't the minimum.
McDonalds starts higher than the minimum, because even they know the minimum is too low.
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 20h
McDonald’s is literally right at the bottom. “Doesn’t even compete with fast food” is a bar in hell.
Steve@communick.news · 3 pts · 19h
It is indeed
And the minimum is still even lower than that
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 19h
Sorry I was actually wrong.
McDonald’s starts at $19.29. Because that’s the minimum wage where I am.
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 30 pts · 20h
That's the neat thing, it isn't for us.
My boss makes a dollar, I make a dime,
This rhyme comes from a different time,
My boss makes a dollar, I make a cent,
That's why I can no longer afford rent.
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 14h
Huh, I always thought a dime was $0.01 when I heard the original rhyme
LordCrom@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 1d
Where is rent 1200? Maybe with 2 roomates.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 1d
That's a reasonable figure for a big chunk of the Midwest. I currently pay around that much for a 2 bedroom apartment.
BlueberryWalnut@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 1d
Eureka CA $1200 for a 2 bed 1 bath single family home
...but you live in Eureka
epicshepich@programming.dev · 4 pts · 1d
I had an apartment that was 1200 a month in Southeast Michigan a few years ago. It was the cheapest two-bedroom around because it was pretty poorly maintained.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 1d
A decade ago, $1200 was a three bedroom house in my neighborhood. Today, it's $1400 for a studio apartment, and $3k for the same house.
Again, 10 year difference.
epicshepich@programming.dev · 3 pts · 9h
I forget how bad the inflation is. I had that place in 2023-2024 so not quite a decade, but I'm sure things have gotten worse since then.
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 1d
I never understood landlords like that. Maintenance isn't too difficult or too expensive barring pretty extraordinary circumstances.
Put in like $200-$300 a month worth of maintenance and you could eventually charge $400-$500 a month more in rent.
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
Theyd rather not do extra work and just charge slightly less.
glitchdx@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
austin tx reporting in, there's advertisements up near me about the amazing deal of $1100/mo for a 1bed apartment.
GlendatheGayWitch@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Wow, when I lived there, it was $700 just to rent a room in someone else's house
Addv4@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Southeast US in the smaller cities (rent is cheaper for a reason though...).
Gongin@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 1d
In my area right now you cannot rent an apartment unless you show proof you have income 3x rent. So that 1200 apartment wouldn't be possible because they make less than 3600
mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 1d
It's not supposed to be sustainable. If you have ANY slack whatsoever you gain leverage against the oligarch class.
yakko@feddit.uk · 8 pts · 1d
It's sustainable because they tolerate it. They just do the horse bit from Animal Farm
green_link@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 1d
how is it sustainable? it's not. and that's by design. American politicians and billionaires want it this way. they want the divide. the more poor you are the more likely you are to serve them. slavery never disappeared from the US. the 'American dream' has been dead for decades.
heartSagan5@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 1d
It works for poor versus rich too. Convince their depressed earnings are due to immigrants, etc. and they'll attack them and (not us rich folks). It's a redirection by the rich.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 1d
It also wasn't sustainable 20 years ago.
Millennials in their 40s are finally reaching the level of income/financial freedom as a genX did in their late 20s.
heartSagan5@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 1d
And some of GenX got part of the Boomer economy where they practically handed you a job for simply asking and things were affordable.
Shanmugha@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 14h
I am getting tired of waiting for people to realize what's in the post and finally take up to pitchforks. That's not rocket science, come on
mechoman444@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 1d
Well... It's not sustainable for the person making $15 an hour, but it's certainly is for the person paying that person $15 an hour and I think that those are the only people that we should be caring about.
Listen you got to work 6 days a week and go to church on Sundays. That's how it's supposed to work. That extra 20-30 bucks you get at the end of the month, collection plate.
Then you can die quietly at 55 and somebody can take your place.
/S obviously.
404found@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 1d
That's not 10% of your income. Pass Go and go straight to hell.
Skyrmir@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 1d
It was never sustainable, it was a hack to keep people from demanding unions. There's plenty of countries with no minimum wage and well paid workers. It takes strong unions and labor protection laws, which is why the fascists will fight it to the death.
daychilde@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
When minimum wage was instituted in the United States, it was intended as a living wage.
That has been eroded with time, though.
Skyrmir@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
It was never implemented in the first place. What was intended never happened. Probably for the best honestly. Minimum wage is a poor way to accomplish a living wage, the only advantage it has, is political expediency.
Natanael@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 1d
Sweden here, we have unions but no legal minimum wage.
For all the good, there's still too many companies not unionized which mostly affects young people and foreigners with shit wages at shit jobs and with no legal minimum and far lower momentum for unionization these days these people don't have a lot of leverage, stuck living with parents or in other shitty conditions to afford anything.
If you're in a job with a good union it can be nice, but not all people have that luck.
Skyrmir@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
I understand that since you're working 400 less hours per year, with a months more vacation, and paid parental leave on a job that's much more difficult to get fired on you might still have complaints.
But seriously, the tiny fractions of a problem that still exist in the Swedish labor market, wouldn't even make rounding errors in the US. There are always going to be problems, and lots of arguments about how to fix them. Most people in the US, would much rather have Swedish labor market problems to argue about.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 1d
Many, if not most, restaurant server jobs still pay $2 - $4 per hour. Like that's the official rate and they're just allowed to not pay you, since you'll probably receive tips. And that's legal somehow.
warbond@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
My personal conspiracy theory behind the covid-era spread of tipping culture was to get employees to accept tips as a part of their income. Once it reaches a certain threshold you're legally allowed to pay the real minimum wage because the rest is subsidized by the customer.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
Didn't Trump make a whole song and dance of promising "No Tax On Tips" in order to get people to report their tipped income?
kestrel7_7@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Lol which is so silly because you already won't be taxed on tipped income if you don't report it 😂
ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Cash tips are pretty rare now though and paid via card those tips are getting reported and taxed. Plus the employer has to pay you minimum wage if your tips + wage < min wage so employers were definitely making sure employees reported enough tips even in an all cash environment.
mwguy@infosec.pub · 18 pts · 1d
And $15/hr is roughly twice the Federal minimum wage.
rethnor@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 20h
And any positions that are paying minimum wage aren't hiring full time for those positions, that means more than one job which increases transportation costs and reduces free time.
liimnok@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 10h
And they do that so they don't have to provide health insurance, which means the employee will have to pay for their own and thats expensive. Highly predatory.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 47m
This is a reason I feel like public health care should be a bipartisan issue. Business people should love not having to do health insurance for employees.
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 14h
I have had plenty of full time minimum wage jobs. Also had a few zero hour contracts which absolutely suck in comparison.
strocker89@feddit.online · 17 pts · 1d
Minimum wage is $7.25...
And it should be $30/hr
sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 1d
It should be tied to some multiple of the zip codes median rent.
MonkRome@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
We have organizations that calculate the "living wage" in each area, it should be tied to that. Its $26/hr where I live.
GlendatheGayWitch@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1d
And that is more than double minimum wage in the US ($7.25/hour)!
Yew@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1d
There was this commercial in the 90's, I think it was burger king. About a young guy doing his budget, it included $19/mo for gas, and it came out to "a dollar a day for lunch? More than enough!" For a 99 cent cheeseburger. That budget was laughable at the time but it's insane today.
BillyClark@piefed.social · 15 pts · 1d
Even if they had an extra $500 per month somehow, it's not enough to just survive. For one thing, if you're human, you need to at least entertain the possibility of vacations.
Why can't we expect people to survive AND to have a decent quality of life?
Asafum@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1d
American media: COMMUNISSSSSSSSST!!!!! AHHHHH!!! UNREASONABLE LAZY MILLENNIAL!!! HANDOUTS!!!
Soup@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
And we need to be clear that “vacations” does not mean travelling. People will do basic tourist crap in Italy and call themselves worldly, whatever. But people do need money to just exist in their own space without working for a week(longer, obviously). People can’t even be tourists in their own cities and towns.
MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 1d
Businesses should try thinking about people on minimum wage as CUSTOMERS. Because that what they are. People who now can't afford to eat out, buy new clothes, take up a hobby, join a gym, spend a weekend at the lake, pay rent...
They lay off thousands of workers, replace them with AI or self checkouts, or move manufacturing to China, then bitch about how no-one is buying their product. Get a clue!
Sharkticon@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 1d
I wish my bills were that low.
myyass@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
no kidding. that's my average water/trash bill. I guess the lights don't need to say on.
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 1d
60 bucks for a phone a month and you call that "minimum wage poor"? While just using 350 for food? The most important factor in life?
I drown in money and use a 8yr old phone and pay 7 moneyz a month for a generous contract. I would consider a 60 buck monthly budget for a stupid phone outrageously wild.
Steve@communick.news · 11 pts · 1d
$60 is the standard price for the highest tier unlimited data plans.
Nevermind that with the ubiquity of WiFi, unlimited data isn't really necessary for most people; Most people still just assume they need that.
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 1d
But seriously, who needs unlimited? I have 30GB, rarely ever use more than 5GB tops. With watching jellyfin.
I may be a cheapskate, but 60 bucks for some unlimited data sounds bizzare. For tiktok-junkies maybe who spend 20h a day scrolling vids?
Steve@communick.news · 1 pts · 1d
There are some jobs where it's important. But then it's something the company will buy. Individuals almost never need it.
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
Indeed. If needed then you probably don't need to pay for it.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 1d
I agree. I'm on Mint (edit: mobile service haha) getting like 2GB a month and never reach that because I barely use this cursed rectangle off WiFi. Lol
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1d
Cachyos and opensuse here, but at least those are at home only so I don't need mobile. The updates alone would probably fill some more gig otherwise. But still far from 30.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 22h
Whoops, I meant mint the cell service, but OpenSUSE mentioned let's GOOOO!!! :D
Been hearing a ton about Cachy, gotta check it out! I'm trying to figure out a solid distro to put my less-techy gamers in the family on. It's likely between Cachy or OpenSuse...slowroll or leap is the question. 🤔
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 15h
Oh lol, never heard of mint in that context 😁 For gaming there's no question I'd say => cachy. They're always up2date and everything works. On suse I had more probs, but I don't game on that device so I chose it because German 😁
Also pacman beats zyppr. By speed at least. It's so fucking slow it drives me mad... And then you get paru on top. Guess I would choose cachy (or other arch-based) for nongaming too.
But I'm linux-noob for desktop...
For all my servers I use Debian mostly.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 11h
Appreciate your perspective! Thank you so much for the reply! :)
diablicja@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 1d
60 buck monthly phone budget is something that will sound reasonable to the policymakers. "Food budget", however, is completely abstract and negotiable. People who never had to count what they spend on food will argue that everyone can permanently live on the cheapest food items they've ever heard of. Don't forget that according to Fox News, you can eat a whole Thanksgiving dinner for $10. It's dumb, but that's how they think, so you have to meet them there if you want to try and get through to them and make a difference.
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
To be honest, I don't have any precise clue about food prices either. Our cook buys it. If he all uses it for food or not, we don't know and don't check.
But I'm also aware that 10 bucks probably won't buy shit anywhere in the capitalist world. And surely no dinner. Here (germany) you can buy 6 buns for 10 bucks. We just did and I thought i slept for 3 decades or so. It was 0.10 per bun when I was younger.
Still 60 bucks for a bit...mobile data? I pay 120 for 5x1gbit at home. And for half of it I could use a fraction of it outside? Sounds bonkers. Or maybe I'm just a cheapskate 😁
flandish@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 1d
thing is: they know and design things this way. shareholders get profit. workers get instructions on how to get stamps.
deathbird@mander.xyz · 12 pts · 1d
Fight for 15 started back in, what, 2006?
teelin134@programming.dev · 11 pts · 1d
By the time most places had $15, it should’ve been $25
doingthestuff@lemy.lol · 2 pts · 1d
It's still $7.
deathbird@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 19h
Pretty close $24.85 adjusted for inflation for today. But even inflation indexing seems a little iffy when things like housing have been outpacing the general rate.
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 1d
And with how fast they've ramped up inflation doing as much stupid shit as possible, what should it be now, like, $47.70 or something? Lol
Radical_Socialist_t00t@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 1d
It's not meant to be sustainable. Capitalism is about cheating your fellow men out of their munnies so you have more.
That's why we need Scientific Socialism
cosmicrookie@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
Where I live (not usa) minimum wage is practically $21.40
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 1d
And your entire civilization hasn't collapsed from the weight of fairly paying all those unwashed workers?!?!? Absolutely shocking. Somebody should tell our policy people! They'll be thrilled at this news! /s
Sincerely, happy for you though lol.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
Rent bots have added another $100-$130 to their listing prices.
pdxfed@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
They're as naive as someone just putting together that minimum wage en masse isn't sustainable when it's a punishing poverty wage. Its a shanty wage...if that.
BilSabab@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
and then homies wonder why some much crime
uber_chicken@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
It's isn't and that's the point. They keep you down so you can't so anything about whats happening.
That's why they hated covid lockdown because people had more time to do what they wanted and they realised that's what life is supposed to be
Trilogy3452@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1d
YSK: if you're paying for 60$ for a phone for yourself there are MVNOs that are waaay cheaper
Edit: to be clear this is not to refute the post's argument
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 1d
Same as Op. I pay about $10-20 a month for cell service. I'm mostly on wifi anyways.
This isn't a "don't buy Starbucks and you can afford a home" tip. More like... Don't pay AT&T/Verizon/whatever fucking company any more than you have to because these motherfuckers all give money to ICE.
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 14h
US Mobile is like $20/mo
blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 1d
Lots of places, minimum wage won't even take you that far. Big city or nearby suburb? Forget it.
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 1d
Meanwhile in a country with a reasonable minimum wage, approx £1800/month take home pay.
£900 mortgage, £180 council tax, £80 electricity, £22 internet, £5 phone, £60 food.
Water is paid twice a year, averages out to like £10 a month, its cheap enough I don't pay much attention to it.
So about £500-600 left.
But I live with my partner, so half all of those costs by splitting it. Phone/food stay the same by having twice as much, although bulk buying food probably makes it a bit less than 2x
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 1d
Sorry, but people better than you need that yacht money. /s
fucmm@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 23h
We need to start taking to the streets my friends and just take what you need. Fuck corporate America. I’m gonna take what I want and throw what I think it’s worth on the counter on the way out. Who’s gonna stop me. I need food and clothes for me and my kids. You gonna fucking stop me? The fucking guy checking receipts gonna stop me? No it’s gonna be the Karen bitch that voted for trump and I’m gonna Sparta kick that hoe out my way
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 20h
I don't see people stealing food.
Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 13h
That’s the spirit.
crystalmerchant@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Answer: it's not sustainable
UPGRAYEDD@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
The crazy part: its propped up by the ultra wealthy in a country with more guns than people. When this shit does hit the fan, the violence will be on another level.
unitedwithme@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 1d
And just think, iirc 19 States still utilize federal minimum wage... So, less than half of $15/hr.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
This is also why the powers that be drug their heels and took 10 years to implement the 15 dollar minimum wage.
because they knew that by the time they did, it would solve nothing due to inflation and cost of living rises.
So they got the brownie points for passing it, but still have the desperate, manipulable base thats one bad month away from losing everything.
and they'd also get to go "God, we just gave you the 15 dollar minimum wage, and now you want 25? Stop being greedy and live within your means!"
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 0 pts · 14h
If you are 1 bad month away from losing everything why are you making £400/month car payments. Over £200 a month on food delivery. £90 a month phone contract. £150 a month on TV and streaming services.
These are real people I know. Like yeah the economy isn't great but you are not helping yourself. Cut back a bit and you could easily build up enough savings to cover several months if something bad was to happen.
Actually suggesting these things to people is really difficult though. They immediately become defensive and try to justify all these luxuries as needs.
They can technically afford them all, but it leaves them with absolutely nothing at the end of the month. As if they are actively trying to spend everything before they get paid.
victorz@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
What is the definition of "getting ahead", if you don't mind?
MonkeMischief@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 1d
I'll venture a guess: I'd personally define it as so called "gainful employment", as in, if you're not blowing all your money frivelously, you should be making enough to reasonably sandbag against disaster or improve your own circumstances by saving.
But everything sure is upside down. Assuming somebody makes enough to get by comfortably, savings accounts don't outpace inflation.
So if you don't want your hard earned money decaying year over year (and faster, lately!) this forces you to put your money into the stock market, which is a whole complicated game with esoteric rules and a high possibility that your deposit might be worth way less if you need to pull that money.
So I guess "getting ahead" can be: "Still coming out relatively positive after various powerful and interested parties have coerced our funds into their pockets."
Edit: formatting
victorz@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Yeah that's pretty interesting actually, the whole money decay thing in your bank account. I hadn't thought of that before you mentioned it.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1h
Isn't minimum wage also half that?
noxypaws@pawb.social · 3 pts · 1d
"anymore" was 20 years ago
heartSagan5@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 1d
Loan sharks love this desperation of that $23-33/mo in the budget for clothes, etc.
The cars are bloated in price too. They aren't selling you the car, they're selling you the loan/payment plan. You ever notice how they don't like hearing, "I can't afford this," it's "Get X with only $/mo"
That's why the 2008 Recession occurred, the subprime mortgage -- people who were risky to begin with were cut mortgages; the liquidity of the bottom workers flopped, and it echoed up the financial food chain. And it's predatory as hell. The same shit happens to student loans. Students yearn for higher education to improve their lives, and when they leave, they can't find jobs so the liquidity flops again. The problem with education debt is that it is non-dischargable; you can't go bankrupt on student loans. WTF?!?!?!
LemmyBruceLeeMarvin@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 1d
[stares in Marxist materialist analysis]
ramble81@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 1d
This lines up pretty well where I live and I’m in a major metro area (San Antonio). Rent would get you something pretty small though but not impossible. Food, phone and internet are about spot on for what I pay currently. Utilities for a small studio/1br track about there. Transportation is a bit off depending on if you own a car or not.
But regardless, even if the numbers are close, it just drives the point home that much more.
nathan@lem.permisuan.com · 3 pts · 1d
But minimum wage is 7.25 in tx
TransNeko@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
minimum wage in every state is $7.25 due to it being the federal minimum wage. it's just that a few blue states made local laws making non-federal jobs have a higher state minimum wage in cities (emphasis on cities only). -- but these states also raised the city tax to compensate which cancels out half of the minimum wage raise.
but it's better than red states where many filthy republicans have been trying to introduce laws lowering the minimum wage while still increasing taxes.
volore@scribe.disroot.org · 3 pts · 1d
::: spoiler [laughs in Pennsylvanian] [weeps in Pennsylvanian]
:::
MonkRome@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Imagine having a lower minimum wage than West Virginia...
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
It is more than sustainable. For those who profit off this.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Silver lining!
AviAdi@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
In honor of labor day and all those who sacrificed for better working conditions I’ve been thinking of ways to make our voices heard. I think protesting at FAA air traffic facilities is a great option. If we keep controllers from accessing their jobs the air space shuts down. This would be a huge blow to Trump!
Let me explore how we organize these protests. The beauty is most of these employees are sick of going to work because they HATE TRUMP! They just need to see the public is on their side and we need to give them a reason to not show up for work! Air traffic controllers think their duty is to go to work and pretend everything is normal, if we protest right in front of them they will know the public wants them to act!
We will also not hurt the individual. The air traffic centers where there is a higher volume of controllers are paid very well. They also have great union benefits. Including leave pay called “weather leave”, which is usually time paid for absence from work due to adverse conditions. Well protests right outside their workplace is an adverse condition and the union will make sure the federal government pays the individual if they can’t make it to work!
So how do we organize this. I think we should target the air traffic centers “ARTCC”. These are large radar facilities where 100+ employees work every day. They have one gate access point. You can start off small, just on the sidewalk with signage expressing that serving Trump is shitting on the Constitution (this is a common debate between federal employees now) This can be as small as 1 person just out there on the sidewalk peacefully holding up a sign. Totally legal.
Now if we have enough numbers we can start “crossing the street” protests. Pedestrians legally are allowed to cross the street in front of the entrances to these centers and we can utilize slow walking speeds to delay entry to employees. Usually this should be done between 6-9am and 2-6pm as those are shift change hours.
Finally a lot of controllers may find other reasons to not show up to work. Emotional distress, lack of sleep, or fatigue are all Union protected reasons controllers could get PAID time off while we the people protest against the trump regime. Once the administration is deposed the worker individual can return to work normally with little impact to their financial situation!
So now the locations of the centers:
This is the issue, they are typically located outside city areas. So I don’t expect huge numbers of people showing up but like I said, 1 or 2 people protesting is still worth it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Air_Route_Traffic_Control_Centers?wprov=sfla1
So this is my protest idea. It’s one way to affect Trump adversely, a lot of federal employees are sick of this shit, THEY JUST NEED A REASON SO LET’S SHOW THEM WE WANT THEM TO FUCK TRUMP OVER
So you read all this and you’re still thinking “oh well nothing near me and I can’t do much” Well you probably do have a FAA airport near you with a control tower, you can protest there, or many other agencies that are run by the federal government. Finally you can copy this and spread it. You can edit it if you need to but just spread this idea.
Life in the USA cannot continue to go on as if this is all normal, something has to break! It’s Labor day weekend as I write this, let’s demonstrate labor still has the fucking power!
doingthestuff@lemy.lol · 0 pts · 1d
Uh, no.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
I think the calls leaving 100 per month are generous
NutWrench@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 7h
Also, do you really NEED sleep?
FatherPeanut@pawb.social · 2 pts · 1d
Not gonna lie, the numbers people sometimes pull up for similar arguments are usually fudged in some way, but not a single number they used sounds wrong.
15 an hour isn't unheard of, minimum for my state isn't even close to that, some of my coworkers make that. Rent for my place is much more. I spend way more on food, bills, utilities, etc. I'm not in a very high-income or high-cost place, it's the outskirts of a small industrial city, and I'd say those numbers are skewed to cost less than what they actually wind up costing me.
ulterno@programming.dev · 1 pts · 1d
I just did the math and I don't get even $15/hr.
Glad that my transportation cost is under $25 and rent is 6x less than that value.
Oh, and food costs are 1/3 of that, as long as I cook myself.
But yeah, getting anything imported, would hurt the bank balance.
doingthestuff@lemy.lol · 2 pts · 1d
If your rent is that low you're clearly not in the US. Why would people with rock bottom cost of living need higher wages? Sounds like you're living like a king compared to bthe working class here.
ulterno@programming.dev · 0 pts · 15h
Yeah.
Thanks to the income/expense situation being a little bit less unbalanced over here.
Also thanks to the relative ease there is, to get politicians to implement work reform, as compared to the US (not that any of the work reform laws would apply to me).
scytale@piefed.zip · 1 pts · 1d
anon_8675309@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
There are 30 million jobs making $15 or below. It is mathematically impossible for all or even half to get higher wage jobs.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
I understand your thinking, but I think the argument is to RAISE the minimum wage. So all 30 million of those people you referenced would get better-paying jobs immediately.
anon_8675309@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Yes. But the opposition to raising minimum wage is usually that those people should just get better jobs. My point was that argument is invalid as it’s not possible.
ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
When I was living in Seattle I figured about $100k would be a reasonable minimum there. That's just enough to not constantly stress about money, do things like going to the doctor and dentist, you can have some joys in life, and save towards long term goals. It can't get you anything fancy you still need to live modestly but you can actually live not just survive
BigDiction@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1d
I’ve never lived in a $7.25 state. Excluding tipped jobs, have any of y’all worked that rate or know somebody who has in the last 10 years?
It’s unfathomably low.
doingthestuff@lemy.lol · 4 pts · 1d
I'm in a state where minimum is under $11 and yes lots of people earn minimum. I moved out when minimum was around $4, I made maybe $0.15 over minimum. I had two roommates and we lived in a really terrible neighborhood but we made it work. I walked to work back then. Where I live now, walking or biking are not options. It just keeps getting worse.
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 13h
I still see jobs listing for $9/hr
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 1d
For my argument, assume that the American Dollar has utterly failed, and a new currency is invented. The numbers make much more sense in an engineered economy, rather than one that has inherited technical debt from millennia of worker-employer relations.
00000
I think the way forward is to rework income to be a floor and ceiling, with jobs being assigned ranks. By doing this, we can limit the maximum amount of money that people can make - and in turn, the economy will 'rubberband', according to what income brackets that goods and services are priced for.
A national review board sets what rank a job class falls into. East coast, west coast, Hawaii, all the same exact pay annually. Workers don't negotiate for higher pay with their employers, and the employers can't set standards or expectations for what they pay. This prevents employers from abusing people through 'circumstances', or using promotions as a stick, and so on.
Ranks are based on the effort, risk, and knowledge that a role entails. The national board uses research to determine what a job type requires asks of people.
Below is an example of what I would like rankings to be.
Leadership positions give Rank 2 during the first three months after being voted into place, but workers below the leader vote for pay rank, and may also elect to remove the leadership position or to replace the person there. So worker satisfaction is tied to whether or not a leader gets a decent income.
On top of that, everybody should get a fixed amount of hours they may work each day. If they work even just an hour, they still get a full day's pay. Each worker is capped at 9 hours a day, and can only do 5 days of work a week. 45 hours total each week.
People earn a 1:1 ratio of retirement benefits based on hours worked for a given rank. So someone who worked a full year at Rank 1 has $20,000 in benefits paid by the workplace. These benefits are only in effect when going on paid vacation, sick leave, fired, or in retirement. A business that goes under or is bought, has its obligations passed to government or to the new owner. Citizenship UBI is replaced by benefit income ranks, starting with the best payout rank.
Companies that use AI to displace workers, have to pay into a government fund. This fund is used to give ranked UBI to citizens, paying them for a job they can no longer obtain. A company's limit on wealth and assets is based on employee headcount or the amount of citizen UBI it is paying for, anything beyond the limit is 100% confiscated by government, with penalties if the excess is found to be deliberate. Local and federal government split the confiscation 50-50.
Individual people have limits on liquid wealth and assets. Non-citizens have $50,000 caps on each pool, and a citizen a $100,000 cap for each. Any amount of wealth beyond these limits are confiscated by the government. This helps prevent the development of millionaires and billionaires.
Universal services offer free healthcare, generic supplies and food, free basic shelter and transport. Money is used for buying lifestyle upgrades, such as fancier clothing, bigger housing, restaurant food, ect. Corporations have to compete against these free products, by offer better quality.
Hypothetically, the 'banding' of incomes like this would also prevent or mitigate inflation, because wealth distortions and labor manipulation would be curtailed. By making incomes predictable, the markets can price goods accordingly.
ebc@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d
Interesting ideas. A few comments:
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 1d
I have a slide deck that includes taxes and whatnot. They are divided into two pieces for individuals: "Social" and "Cultural" tax. The Social Tax pays for roads and other communal goods, with taxpayers being able to use an app or website to assign what projects the money goes towards: Potholes for a certain street, playgrounds, ect. The cultural tax is a form of crowdfunding, where the taxpayer can assign the tax towards projects that promote culture - festivals, games in development, TV shows, ect. Failure of the taxpayer to earmark their taxes, has the government using them as a discretionary fund.
The way I figure, this encourages individuals to think about their society, and gives them a pool of money that they can't spend on themselves. The government gets the bulk of its discretionary taxes from the regulation of companies.
0000
The system I outlined, already forces people to not hoard money: The absolute caps on wealth and assets makes them inclined to spend their money, else it would overflow, and that excess collected by the government. We want people to have enough money to have a big buffer for major expenses, while also encouraging regular spending.
Plus, universal services and free generic goods encourages the spending of money. People will focus their funds towards what they want, and be economical in the spots they don't care about. This is a bit different from what we have today, because people are currently obligated to pay for their food, utilities, goods, services, and so on. By offering free but boring options, society allows people to focus their investments on the things that interest them.
Trev625@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 1d
Personally, I feel like the gap is too large between the top earners and the bottom earners. The minimum is 10% of the maximum. And this is cumulative so every year that passes the rich are getting richer. I am fine with a system where people who do more for society make more currency but the wealth divide shouldn't be this drastic IMHO.
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 23h
Today's American elite have considerably greater wealth gaps than what I described for the system. There is roughly a 400% to 1,100% difference between a minimum wage worker and an executive, before considering things like stocks and options.
0000
Since there are absolute wealth caps and the rule is that only one income stream can be active, there is essentially a soft limit on accumulating benefits. People who earn enough benefits from work, are likely to retire or go on vacation - which leaves a vacuum for other people to fill up, who in turn earn enough benefits to move on, and repeat. The people with stockpiled benefits also create opportunities for new businesses to crop up, since they would need things to keep them busy - an ambition, touring to see the land, activities, and so forth. This creates jobs due to demand, thus creating new upper ranks that need to be filled.
Students earn money from learning, which means they can comfortably obtain the qualifications to obtain better paying ranks. Thus, there are many people who can enter the upper ranks. Due to universal services, people can wait for jobs without danger - and people who work, can leave jobs if the work conditions suck. So there is a lot more mobility for income seekers.
0000
While I very much doubt that the proposed Universal Living system to be an panacea, the important thing is to enact something considerably better than what we currently have. Perfection isn't the goal, since that requires a lot more understanding of economics than humanity has learned up to this point.
Neverbeaten@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
If the children are our future and we truly believe that, then teachers should be in the top rank of pay.
The top research scientists, writers, engineers, etc, should be incentivised to leave their corporate jobs to teach, not the other way around.
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 1d
Unfortunately, there is an issue with making teachers the highest paying job: the sheer number of them needed. The system would probably break under that. 😕
betelplouf@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 1d
Rent 1200$?? How much is your real estate market fucked up?
grayclouds@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1d
That's very low for the US
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 1d
$1200 is a studio apartment in a regular neighborhood these days. Or a 2bdroom in fucking nowhere.
betelplouf@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 21h
Oh my, sounds soo expensive
FatherPeanut@pawb.social · 3 pts · 1d
That's about right from my experience in the midwestern USA. Went looking at options for apartments in this area alongside a lesser populated area prior to moving here at the start of this year. I'm not in some high-income zone, it's predominantly manufacturing around here. My apartment costs 1451/mo, and it was the cheapest I could find out of the options I was open to accepting. I recall seeing apartments as cheap as 1130/mo, but those were apartments in a reeeeeeallly sketchy area, and I can't say I was particularly open to that if I have the option to go elsewhere.
Edited for clarity
Also another edit: This is less rigorous and more rooted in what I've experienced, but when I had a friend from Italy over here in 2022-2023, I recount him commenting a few times on how high the costs for things are. He didn't use words like "Cost of Living" per se, but would speak on how he doesn't get how we can live with things being as expensive as they are. Not to completely shame the system, he did mention a few luxuries of living here that he doesnt have over there, but things were very skewed toward "How tf can you afford this shit?" Case in point, he could afford to fly overseas with a less-than-luxourious job, at the time, I could not.
betelplouf@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 21h
Indeed that seems really expensive from a western european point of view, I wish we could speak more about this when we talk about the US economy, and not the GDP growth being higher or some other dumb things. Europe often sees the US as an economic compass, but I couldn't tell your situation was so worrying before signing up on Lemmy.
To comparison, my income has been 460€ per month (social scholarship) for a long time, my rent being around 200€ but with the allowances I was only paying 40. And the minimum wages here is 1477€ net (around 9€ per hour), so I was very very poor.
With healthcare, I could take care of my chronic illness without spending anything, and I could eat pretty normally and even have some hobbies. Since uni is free for poor people (170€ per year for everyone else), I didn't have to pay for anything aside from my classic expenses.
With a full time work, you're litterally poorer than an alone ill student without any other income than social allowance in france.
I hope your situation will get better, go unionize and that kind of stuff, don't stay alone, and a big good luck
rbos@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 1d
While that is awful.. I'd eliminate the internet line and tether my phone. Data plans are ridiculous these days.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
The most common end-run around no Internet is to use the library. And we've been closing libraries faster than we've been opening private data centers
Tabooki2@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 1d
It's called minimum wage for a reason. It's not a career and you aren't supposed to do it forever.