[Ed Sheeran] Calling Gaza “the most complex political issue on the planet” is pro-genocide propaganda – CE Media
https://www.councilestatemedia.uk/p/calling-gaza-the-most-complex-political?publication_id=1336368&post_id=216876205
730 points · 190 comments · view on lemmy.world
190 Comments
sns@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 172 pts · 2d
When you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.
-Geddy Lee, Neil Peart, and Alex Lifeson
Boe@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 28 pts · 2d
You should change the attribution to Rush. Neil was the lyricist of the group.
galacticbackhoe@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 2d
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor
-Desmond Tutu
Malica@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 2d
It's not a matter of choice, either you have morals or you don't. He doesn't.
Eldritch@piefed.world · 4 pts · 2d
You have morals or you have money. It's a binary thing really.
jim_v@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2d
Does that make Keanu Reeves nonbinary?
Eldritch@piefed.world · 2 pts · 1d
An exception perhaps.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 1 pts · 1d
I'd say so, but even he is fallible - i remember him supporting some medical con-man (out of conviction, not out of greed) a few years back? Can't remember details, but he caught online flak for it - deservedly
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 1d
Yes! It's so clear with issues like this one, too.
Those who answer "not sure" are absolutely the same as those who say "no". History doesn't remember future intentions, only actions that take place.
People who can't even VOICE that genocide is wrong are fucking monsters.
jimmy90@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 19h
when it's genocide vs genocide the only winner is genocide
genocide
Almacca@aussie.zone · 93 pts · 2d
Keep digging that hole, Ed.
ProfessorProteus@lemmy.world · 62 pts · 2d
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 2d
👨🍳🤌🫴
DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.world · 90 pts · 2d
Isn't Netanyahu wanted for genocide?
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 71 pts · 2d
Well, it's complex
vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 2d
Only by like 5-6 countries.
Radical_Socialist_t00t@lemmy.ca · 18 pts · 2d
Only the countries with balls
moldy_rice@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com · 12 pts · 2d
Only the countries with a moral compass
Hapankaali@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2d
Far more are ICC signatories, most of the world in fact.
However, some have cowardly said they will not arrest Netanyahu because Israel is not an ICC signatory.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Well, since it's not a consensus, does it count?
abc@suppo.fi · 10 pts · 2d
No, he's wanted for accusation of "the war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare and of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts from at least 8 October 2023 until at least 20 May 2024."
https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu
DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
OK so genocide with extra steps?
abc@suppo.fi · 1 pts · 1d
abc@suppo.fi · 0 pts · 1d
No.
DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Genocide: The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group. You said they willfully targeted civilians. That fits the definition of genocide. Targeting the civilian population to kill on a large scale. Thats what they’re doing in Gaza. They even made israeli encampments and new settlements. Wiping them off slowly and replacing them with Israelis: Genocide. I know you’re a zionist. Dont pretend hitler didnt go jew for the fourth reich.
rumimevlevi@sh.itjust.works · 59 pts · 2d
Is is maintain the status quo which is Israelis exterminating Palestinians
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 57 pts · 2d
Listen, this genocide has a lot of nuances and moving parts and history, which means maybe it's not a situation where you can just stick your neck in and say "Killing children is wrong".
I mean, consider a corollary - the British extermination of the Irish. Yeah, it looked bad at the time. But a bunch of Irish people survived. And as a consequence, we have to put up with Ed Sheeran.
Broadfern@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 2d
Ed Sheeran is English though
TownhouseGloryHole@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 2d
I clicked that link and his stupid mug made me reflexively want to down vote you.
Nobody@anarchist.nexus · 5 pts · 2d
Ed Sheeran is and always has been a hobbit. His aversion to taking positions on conflict of any kind only affirms it.
PattyMcB@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 2d
He's ginger
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Yeah, it's a trait that shows up regularly in Celtic folks (and Jewish folks), but also appears all over Europe in smaller frequencies and to a lesser frequency across the old world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair
But yeah he appears to be of Irish descent.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 55 pts · 2d
Israel existing, and being protected from neighbors is, to my mind, a "complex political issue."
Israel performing genocide on Palestinians and annexing their homes is not.
ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com · 53 pts · 2d
"yes, I know that snipers shoot children in the head for fun, but have you considered the complex history of the region?"
OnyxRex@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 40 pts · 2d
It's not that complicated Ed. I got a pretty clear picture from an hour of research. Maybe if you get out of your algorithm for 20 minutes you might find something more tangible on the situation than a few chapters from a dusty religious text and the word of a bunch of rich assholes with vested interests in the region.
Jesus_666@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 2d
A couple years ago it was complex. The complexity just stopped mattering once Israel turned the conflict into a war of annihilation.
Nouvellalia@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 2d
It was always this simple at its core. What made it complex was that most people believed Israeli lies.
Right now, Israel is doing exactly what they've done since the very first day. They're just doing it faster now, and in the age of ubiquitous video coverage and information flow.
Jesus_666@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 1d
"Complex" doesn't mean "balanced". Israel has always pulled underhanded shit like extending its de facto borders by means of "settlements". The Hamas/PLO fight also didn't happen without its involvement. But there have also been factors like the involvement of foreign powers, German guilt, the similarity between Zionism and early Nazi deportation plans, and so on.
The conflict between Israel and Palestine has been a mess from the very beginning and it's understandable that people were reluctant to get involved. Of course these days most of that complexity doesn't matter and not taking a stand is a luxury we shouldn't be able to afford.
(I'm saying "shouldn't be able to" because honestly we routinely ignore genocides; this one just happens to be particularly hard to ignore because Israel is a spotlight hog with huge diplomatic influence.)
kolmaskommentoija@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 1d
I agree. The whole history of that area is quite the mess, and Israel started as an one. It is oversimplification to say the chain of events leading to all this is simple... But the genocide is. There is nothing complicated in condemning a state trying to exterminate a group of people. There is no neutral stance to take. You either accept the genocide, by supporting it directly, or indirectly by not opposing it - or you oppose it.
Nouvellalia@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1d
"Complex" means "balanced" when people like Sheeran use it to mean there are "bad people on both sides" to justify not taking a stand. Which is the explicit usage we were talking about.
But yeah, other ways you can use the world "complex", do not imply "balanced". If that's how you were using it, in this instance where it was being used differently, you should have stated such.
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 18 pts · 2d
I get that's how it seemed if you weren't read up on it back then, and you're not to blame, but what's happening now is just a matter of extent.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Nah, it was always simple. Don't murder civilians. Even the Oct 7th stuff is kinda misleading. Israel has been fucking with Palestinians for so long it's not surprising there are people who want them dead. But, everyone is a terrorist in the eyes of a state when it's convenient for them. And for the record, this isn't a defense of Hamas.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 0 pts · 1d
Yep. Before, there was still some ambiguity (especially if you grew up in a german speaking country like me, who have their own wounds regarding Israel) - Hamas and Israel both weren't "the good guys", because after decades there was no one left with a clean rep sheet, but they were both not actively working on completely annihilating each other. But what Israel started after Oct 7 has reset all of this. And as long as Israel doesn't get the fuck out of Gaza, the West Bank and the areas they are trying to make unlivable for civilians since the start of the Iran fuckup and starts making amends, i will never cry a single tear for any civilians in Israel getting hurt, because just like the americans, they did not do enough to prevent fascists taking over their country.
skozzii@lemmy.ca · 36 pts · 1d
One side is far more powerful and commiting genocide, the other is poor and simply trying to survive. Currently it is not complex at all.
My initial position after those first attacks from Hamas were Isreal has the right to defend itself, but what has happened since then is so far beyond the scope of what is acceptable, it is horrible.
theneverfox@pawb.social · 10 pts · 22h
There's a deeper level to it. Israel, especially netanyahu over his long career, created the entire situation. And they did it directly and intentionally
Palestine used to be governed by the PLA. Hamas are hardliners - their founding goal was to turn the region against Israel and drive out the Israeli people. Hardliners are the least effective form of any movement
Israel held elections for Palestinians, giving them an official group to negotiate with, as well as some legal recognition that allows them to collect funds
As soon as Hamas won a single election, they stopped holding elections and the PLA leaders were assassinated soon after
Not to mention the on again off again attacks... Israel would build them infrastructure like hospitals and desalinization plants, then blow them up
There's a lot to say on the topic, so I'll end it with a fact that really puts things in contrast...
Before October 11, the average age in Gaza was under 18, and it isn't like their population numbers were booming
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 18h
Lust for power and wanting to be godlike is pretty surface level. Nothing too deep there. Same-old, same-old throughout history.
mHtt@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 1d
Israel has been on the offense for 80 years, read a damn history book. PRETENDING that this began on Oct.7 is intellectual dishonesty and evidence that you regurgitate talking points sans critical thought.
notSys@lemmy.cafe · 2 pts · 1d
I didn't start at Oct 7, but before it, the region was in relative peace for a few years.
mHtt@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 18h
still a completely pro Israel take.
how can there be peace when Israel kidnaps Palestinians off the streets with impunity?
notSys@lemmy.cafe · 1 pts · 17h
Citation needed. What I mean by relative peace is the fact there was no war and no big signs of escalation from Israel.
Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 15h
No signs of escalation like, say, sniping children in the crowd of a peaceful protest at the walls of a ghetto?
mHtt@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 6h
hes not arguing in good faith. he asks for a citation of one of THE MOST WELL documented modern oppression:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Israeli_custody
like asking for a citation when someone claims the sky is blue or grass is green.
mHtt@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 6h
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -33 pts · 1d
DisasterTransport@startrek.website · 19 pts · 1d
ah yes, Hamas is embedded so thoroughly we have to shoot people waiting for food aid after we carpet bombed their house And dont get me started on journalists, the Associated Press should be designated an international sponsor of terrorism.
If you must try to hold on to this idea that Israel is acting in good faith when they
mow the lawn❌thin the population❌erase gaza❌ defend themselves ✅ fromhuman animals❌amalek❌ Hamas ✅ by bombing hospitals and schools you could at least admit that IDF fucks up a lot. Like a suspicious amount.Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -12 pts · 1d
We'll see what is remembered 50 years from now..
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
“We’ll see what is remembered 50 years from now” is a remarkable thing to say while defending collective punishment, considering we already have a thorough and tragic historical record.
The last century gave us genocide, mass civilian killing, collective punishment, and entire populations being blamed for the actions of governments and armed groups.
The humanitarian laws written in response explicitly rejected the exact moral logic you are invoking here.
You are not offering some hardheaded lesson from history. You are resurrecting an argument the last century already taught us to reject.
Instead of predicting how history will remember this, maybe you should read some.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
Current events worldwide demonstrate that the lesson has neither been learned, nor rejected- most particularly in the Muslim world..
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
No. The fact that people still commit atrocities does not mean those atrocities were never rejected.
People still murder. People still torture. People still commit genocide. That does not make murder, torture, or genocide accepted principles.
Collective punishment was explicitly rejected in international humanitarian law after the horrors of the last century.
And “but the Muslim world” is not a defense of your argument. It is just pointing at someone else.
You defended collective punishment. You minimized the suffering of innocent civilians. You justified that suffering as the consequence of political decisions made by a population decades ago.
Those were your words. They are still sitting there for everyone to read.
You cannot erase what you argued by pretending you argued something else.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
Well then let's just say these principles are honored more in the breach, than in the observance in today's world.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
I made no such prediction.
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1d
That is semantics after the fact.
“We’ll see what is remembered 50 years from now” is plainly an appeal to future historical judgment. You used it to wave away criticism in the present.
You do not get to hide behind the fact that you left the prediction deliberately vague. The implication was the entire point of the sentence.
If you meant nothing by it, then it was meaningless. If you meant what any ordinary reader would understand it to mean, then yes, you were invoking how history would judge this.
SparrowHawk@feddit.it · 2 pts · 1d
I bet some Nazi said that too.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 1d
All the other dogshit that others are well enough covering aside, just a nitpick: Hitler ran for president and lost in 1932. Hindenburg won. Hindenburg then appointed Hitler as Chancellor, signed over most powers to him, dissolved the Reichstag a couple times, and died.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1d
Even if he ran and lost repeatedly in elections, people still voted for Hitler. That is a matter of historical record. In the middle of his career he was as mainstream a politician in his adopted country, as they came. Doing all the same work the rest of them did. Making speeches, strategizing, running the party.. Selling out the working class to the moneyed elites of the time. .
SpacetimeMachine@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 1d
Oh please. Acting like Israel hasn't been killing Palestinians for decades. Imagine how Palestine could look now if Israel hadn't been subjugating and oppressing them for the last 60+ years.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 1d
Both sides have been killing each other for decades. Palestinians killing Israelis, Israelis killing Palestinians. Neither side has clean hands in any of this.
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
Yes, Israeli soldiers murder children, and then get attacked, and then go murder more children.
Never do the pussies bother to fight anyone in a uniform or anyone armed.
It's always, "Oops, I had to blow up a children's hospital again." Fucking despicable.
SpacetimeMachine@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Yea in a ratio of about 10 Palestinians per 1 Israeli. Neither side has clean hands. But one side sure is hell bent on completely genociding the other. This both sides shit you're spewing is disgusting. Recognize that a genocide is taking place and is killing tens of thousands of innocents.
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · -2 pts · 1d
In your opinion it would've been OK for Israel to retaliate if the ratio was closer to 1:1?
100% true.
You mean the side that had the "obliteration" of the other side mentioned multiple times in its charter?
Agreed. The UN should've stepped in a long time ago and provided much needed security.
TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 1d
Israel won't let the UN step in. UN buildings, programs, and investigators were some of the first targeted, and the US has veto power within the UN. One side has the capacity and is committing genocide, and when you bother to look at what they are saying in Israeli social networks, they are not shy about it. Israel also killed the alternatives for Hamas, bolstering it over the PA to prevent the possibility of a legitimate Palestinian state from rising.
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 21h
I know, it was wishful thinking.
Checking social networks is pointless. Hell, check German socials and you'd think that AfD has 99% votes already. Check US networks and it's a literal civil war. Check Polish socials and half the country is already surrendered to russia.
Too much disinformation for socials to be any source of information.
It's better to look at what was going on just before the attack - and that is: Netanyahu having around 30% support and multiple lawsuits being prepared against him, with people protesting on the streets.
When was that? I know that Hamas won general elections in 2006 and no other elections have happened in Gaza ever since and, from what you're saying, it seems that I missed another conflict that happened between then and now, where Fatah was eliminated.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
Islamic fundamentalists are also not shy about it. You should listen to what they say, too.
Palestine is a tiny part of a very large middle east majority called Islam, they don't concern themselves with such things as "states" and "borders". According to them.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1d
We agree, only the UN could enforce a "two-state solution".
Left to their own devices, Palestinian or Israeli, (HAMAS vs. Zionist, Islam vs. Jew), genocide is their end goal per their own words. Not everybody. But the fundamentalists don't respect the opinion of "anybody" or the rule of law, and they don't negotiate in good faith, ever.
They both want dominion from the river to the sea. Neither will submit to the rule of the other. It's time for us to give up that fantasy.
A lot of international troops would be required to "keep the peace", and even then, murders will continue, just at a slower pace.
If the UN (not the USA) won't keep the peace, we need to get Palestinian civilians out of there. This is an international war, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iran, the Islamic Republic, HAMAS, Hezbollah, et al. aren't going to negotiate peace, there are no terms the other would accept.
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 21h
I have a firm belief that any form of fundamentalism should be treated like a mental illness. So many things would improve in the world...
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
Both sides are, but one side has been doing a better job of it for the last 80 years than the other side.
I don't agree it is a genocide, but I do think either side would be quite glad to see every belligerent member of the other side dead.
There are pro-Palestinian Jews in Israel just as there are Pro-Israeli Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank, though they are few.
.
SparrowHawk@feddit.it · 2 pts · 1d
Palestine has a right to defend itself
rumimevlevi@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 15h
Nat turner committed atrocities? Is Nat turner as bad as the slave owners?
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 1d
You will be "disciplined" for this point of view on Lemmy. Many here don't even realize that all fundamentalist parties involved are dedicated to the total obliteration of the other. They don't understand that this is international, not Israeli vs. Palestinian, but more Jews vs. Islam (which is in itself a gross simplification).
Others want all of these millions of Israelis to "disappear", as if they have somewhere to go. Others want... more.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1d
It didn't end with WW2 and the fall of the Nazis...
https://www.bbc.com/audio/play/w3ct5ymp
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
Yes, most of the time, I can't tell if they are ignorant or just stupid.
Perhaps both, at the same time.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
You will be “disciplined” for this point of view on Lemmy.
I know. I don't care. So far it's all been a bunch of angry foaming-at-the-mouth emotionalism and name calling in the replies. I have my own views. Others have theirs.
.
SectoidLexi@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 1d
You're just straight up being a fascist. Like you deadass are justifying genocide. There already were tons of hospitals and infrastructure! Israel levelled all of them! And that's despite the fact that Israel regularly restricted access to electricity and food BEFORE October 7. Also most of Gaza's population wasn't even old enough to vote when Hamas was elected. Also If you think collective punishment is acceptable for electing someone deemed bad enough then I guess you'd be fine if Israelis and Americans were being mass murdered?
NotEasyBeingGreen@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 15h
Yeah Hamas won the election in 2006. The majority of people living in Gaza are under 20.
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
How many times can Israeli soldiers murder Palestinian children for the crime of "rock-throwing" before you decide enough is enough?
Just pick a number. Any number.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
What culture sends it children into harm's way to antagonize armed soldiers? Answer: Palestinians.
Not old enough to shave a beard but old enough to wear a suicide vest.. again.. Palestinians..
rumimevlevi@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 15h
Israel rape Palestinians children
rumimevlevi@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 15h
Israelis
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1d
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Dude you should lose custody of your children for saying shit like this.
I hope you are one day oppressed by the same shit you support for others.
REDACTED@infosec.pub · -1 pts · 1d
I'm sorry? Him calling out how children are abused in wars (this isn't exclusive to Hamas and has been documented around the world, especially African conflicts) means you should lose custody of children? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 1d
Hmm.. that's all ya got?
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
The fun thing is, I get to walk away and be me and you have to settle for being you.
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · -10 pts · 1d
How about we condemn both Hamas AND IDF for their crimes?
I know it's a very novel approach but I think there might be a method in that madness.
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
OK so we can put you down for "It's ok for soldiers to murder rock-throwing children"
Anyone else want to participate?
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 21h
Turns out, this guy was wrong! It's not just Twitter, it's also Lemmy...
TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d
Some of us do. The problem is that only Israel has the capacity to and is committing genocide.
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · -2 pts · 21h
Wrong. Israel is the only one with the capacity to do it successfully.
(and let's ignore here for a moment the fact that "Palestinian Genocide" has been on the tongues of people for at least 30 years, and during that time the population of Gaza has nearly doubled, that's besides the point right now)
Hamas is absolutely attempting to commit genocide, and if given the tools, they wouldn't bat an eyelid before pulling the trigger. It just so happens that the best they can do is murder some kids on a concert or fling rockets at crop fields and cities.
TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 5h
So in other words, only Israel has the capacity to and is committing genocide and Hamas doesn't.
Why don't you just admit you want to whatabout into justifying genocide? It would be more honest with yourself. A group who fantasizes about committing genocide is very different from a group capable of and actively committing it.
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 21m
Yeah, it might look like that if you're stupid or also a fundamentalist.
My position is that both Israelis and Palestinians have a right to live there and since they can't figure it out on their own, the UN should have the capacity to step in, provide a buffer, and kick out the settler criminals, ideally hang Netanyahu and whoever is in charge of Hamas, and then ensure both sides sit separated for as long as it takes for Palestine to normalise as a country.
You, I take it, are of the opinion that since Israel is the stronger of the two, Hamas has the right to murder them indiscriminately in their "fight for freedom"?
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
This is wrong on many levels. Comparing a nation that went to war and the unfortunate reality of civilians getting caught in the crosshairs to civilians being massacred over a terrorist act is nonsensical.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
Both situations look the same to me. YMMV. .
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Blaming civilians not involved in a war for a terrorist act is not the same. Furthermore, Netanyahu funded the said terrorist group. Perhaps you should get your vision checked?
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
I don't blame civilians, I merely observe that they will also partake of collective punishments brought on by the bad decisions of their political leaders. It is always so, in war. And they elected those leaders, let us not forget..
.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
I appreciate you do not blame the civilians.
I will repeat it was never a war.
Collective punishment isn't a thing in modern warfare and is definitely a crime against humanity.
This is an example of a corrupt politician getting a shit ton of civilians killed to stay out of prison. Not something you get to respond with an ongoing civilian massacre to.
rumimevlevi@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 15h
Actually they do blame the civilians.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
I don't think that ordinary right-thinking individuals would want this situation in its current form.
Unfortunately those are rarely the ones who are making the large scale decisions.
Particularly in recent times.
.
SparrowHawk@feddit.it · 2 pts · 1d
You are poison
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 11h
rumimevlevi@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 15h
Israeli voted for genocidal leaders. Aren't you justifying october7 attrocities with your logic?
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 11h
I don't agree that Israe's leaders are genocidal, so that makes the remainder of what you said completely moot in my mind.
zidanerick@lemmy.patton.id.au · 0 pts · 1d
I know from their standpoint the Jews were "chosen" for certain things that's recognised by almost all christian religions due to the suffering in egypt. The thing that should really alarm people about israel though is that they wouldn't let the gazans leave the area to seek asylum elsewhere and even international citizens in the strip got caught up in this as well. I agree that it's an extremely complex situation due to the history going back Millenia, not 80+ years.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1d
I try not to invoke the religious angle. The subject is complicated enough without mixing theology into it. Others are free to do as they wish, but it seems like the waters are muddied enough by themselves with just people's flaming emotions, illogic, and ignorant opinions of non-religious things and events. There never was nor has been a Palestinian state, and the inhabitants of Palestine didn't exactly thrive under the Ottoman Turks, either. Looking through history, both recent and distant, I can't seem to find this golden age of independence and self sufficient self rule that the Palestinians imagine existed.
zidanerick@lemmy.patton.id.au · 1 pts · 19h
While I agree with the theology standpoint, unfortunately that & history (regardless of recognition, if it was most western countries that occupied the space they would have declared it theirs a long time ago) has made it complicated in the minds of people that occupy both regions.
The palestinians are treated as less-than and while there is a few people over there that could do with a firing squad personally I don't think the population should be responsible for the decisions of their leaders, Instead of just bombing endlessly on civilians israel could have instead allowed humanitarians in to not only allow people to seek asylum but to let the international civilians out.
Either way while I agree that there isn't always an option for peace, we will never have peace as long as we keep causing the terrorism feedback loop that just creates more terrorists. It's like when you send a kid into prison, he just learns to become a better criminal.
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works · 29 pts · 1d
It's no less complicated than the US using 9/11 as an excuse to intensify it's militaristic nature into a 25 year reign of terror in the middle east.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works · 28 pts · 2d
My perception of this dude went from:
Okay maybe he likes sticking his head in the sand cause of money.
To:
He fully knows what he is doing and is complicit.
What a royal fuck up.
Also, my own two cents.
This never started as complex, and imo it’s not complex now. It is to Israel’s benefit for it to be seen as complex so they can do false equivalency.
A bully would love for observers to believe that both sides are equally in the wrong.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 1d
Bet there's going to be a middle east tour now. Gotta hit Israel, UAE, Saudi lol
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
flightyhobler@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 1d
Sounds pretty simple to me
Rentlar@lemmy.ca · 23 pts · 2d
Yes, any Middle East issue is complex and unrest has been ongoing for centuries, but at least mass displacement, killing children and other innocent people, destruction and blockading of humanitarian resources, and incursion into sovreign territory should be condemned, don't you think, Ed? And the words "Free Palestine" are not anti-Israel, no one seemed to have a big problem with any of Macklemore's words, until some billionaire ten days later phoned him up about it.
StealthLizardDrop@piefed.social · 23 pts · 2d
What is so complex about one side genociding the other?
Flower@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1d
The complex part is in turning it all around and shifting blame away from Israel.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 1d
The most complex political issue on the planet remains how to handle climate change.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1d
IMHO that's not really so complicated, we just do the same things we did for lead and CFCs.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 17h
Lead and CFCs were much smaller problems by amount used and necessity for use. Convincing rich countries and primary historic polluters to pay not only for their own decarbonization and sequestration, but also for that of poor countries is a hard sell, especially since many are democracies and agreeing to that would be political suicide. Add in petrostates like Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the US.
And that's before we get into the mass migration as more parts of the world become uninhabitable due to temperature and/or lack of water.
Phasing out CFCs was a hit to efficiency and a research problem, but it cost no jobs. Phasing out lead was also a research problem and it had some controversy. Phasing out fossil fuels is a major shift in the global economy
hoppeduponcoffee@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 1d
You see, mass murder for imperialistic interests is a very nuanced issue and requires multiple viewpoints. There’s definitely pros and cons to it, depending on which team you’re on.
STFU and go back to making boring, gutless adult contemporary music for soccer moms.
Enkrod@feddit.org · 15 pts · 19h
Solving the conflict between a poor and powerless Palestine and the nuclear power of Israel IS one of the most complex political issues. Not only, but also because of the power-imbalance and generational hate on both sides.
The genocide in Gaza is decidedly NOT complex though. Yes it is a part of that entire thing, but the fact that the IDF is committing crimes against humanity is as simple as can be.
VAK@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1d
I viscerally hated that word when he said it but didn't know why until I read this article
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social · 12 pts · 1d
Look, Ed. It's actually quite simple: A nazi state called Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza after they fabricated a terrorist attack so Bibi the nazi could declare a war and avoid prison. And a good portion of the nazi country is actually not ok with the genocide because they'd like bibi to hit them harder.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 27 pts · 1d
They didn't fabricate the attack... But they did knowingly allow it to happen to get casus belli. Bibi was notified at least a week in advance that Hamas was planning something big.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social · 4 pts · 1d
They knew it was going to happen. And not only they did nothing, but they allowed a festival to happen where Hamas was going to attack so the victims were more. If the attack had that many victims, was because they knowingly didn't act.
Then, there's the question of who's funding Hamas. If we dig enough, we're going to find Israel involved in the funding of Hamas because they are the ones who benefit more of an active militia in Gaza.
So yeah, in my eyes, this attack happened with the collaboration of the nazis.
billwashere@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
One could argue that allowing it to happen helped to fabricate it.
isdenzadanielcraig@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 1d
OmegaMouse@pawb.social · 5 pts · 1d
Fuck Israel and all they've done in retaliation but the attack seemed pretty genuine to me. And to be fair I don't blame Hamas for the attack, considering the years of systematic oppression beforehand
edit: I should've read the whole article first, I wasn't aware of money being funnelled to Hamas and soliders being pulled back. Interesting...
deft@lemmy.wtf · 11 pts · 1d
My first thought when he said that.
Kids dying isn't complex bro. Like isn't he fuckin Irish?
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · -8 pts · 1d
Kids dying is the end product of an extremely complex political situation. What's difficult for you to understand here?
webadict@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18h
Israel is murdering children daily, intentionally. Please explain how that is complex? Just follow your own fucking ceasefire and stop murdering children and let fucking aid in and stop murdering journalists. See how un-fucking-complicated it is?
Or is there a complex reason that should keep going?
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 14h
Reducing the whole problem to "Israel is murdering kids" is, ironically, childish. Do you think that adults are not suffering over there? Does kids dying diminish the deaths of adults? I don't think it does.
Fixing that problem is not "just stop murdering children".
Should Israel respect the ceasefire and let humanitarian aid in? Absolutely true, unequivocally. Does that have any bearing on the fact that fundamentalists of the region (on both sides) will still do everything in their power to cause chaos and death, and further divide between the people living in the region? Also absolutely true.
And that's why this is a "complex political situation". Because fundamentalists in Israel want to eliminate Palestinians, fundamentalists in Palestine want to eliminate Israel, russia and Iran are funding the latter to sow chaos and destabilise the region, Saudis and the West are supporting the former because Israel is the stronger power and overall more stable (if nothing else: it had a couple of elections since 2006), and there's probably a billion other elements at play here.
webadict@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10h
Simplicity is childish. And yet you fucking agree with it.
It isn't complex. The "complexity" is that Israel is a military ally, and we sell fucktons of weapons to them. The "complexity" is that Israel justifies their actions by pretending that the political situation is complex. The "complexity" is that Israel contributes lots of money to various politicians to let them do their genocide. The "complexity" is that Israel pretends to represent all Jewish people and uses them as a shield for their actions and then calls any criticism antisemitism.
The complex part is that the US doesn't want to intervene, in spite of an internationally recognized duty to do so should a genocide be happening. That's why people don't want to call it a genocide. If you call it a genocide, you have to do what you can to stop it. But no, we can sweep the hundred thousand plus dead Palestinian children under the fucking rug.
The "complex" part is that it's a genocide. Anyone that defends this shit (including you) is a fucking depraved loser.
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 19m
Yeah, narrow down the 3000 years of history to what's been happening in the last 30, that's a grown-up thing to do. :)
I also would love to hear where in my posts did you see any defence of genocide, because right now it seems like you're just imagining things and then getting angry at them.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
Person A: You don't love me anymore?
Person B: It is complicated.
Person A: really!?
Smaile@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 1d
Yah it's not complex at all it's fairly straight forward genocide.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 1d
A complex straight forward genocide, tho!
/S
Atomic@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 15h
I always try to give people the benefit of doubt. But now he's said too much for that to apply.
The entirety of Palestine, Gaza, and Israel is complex. Though, it has to be said, part of that is because Israel has done everything in their power to keep it "complex". When serious progress was being made in the early years of their nation. Their response was to assassinate the mediator. Yes. Really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte (Oh I mean... It was totally these extremists, a rebel group, and in no way was Israel involved, they investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing!)
The Israeli genocide in Gaza however. Is not very complex. It's quite simple. It's a genocide. And they need to be held accountable. Though I wouldn't hold my breath.
PattyMcB@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2d
Talk about the Streisand effect
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
Its patently ridiculous how hard people twist themselves into knots to try to avoid saying anything remotely negative about Israels fucking genocide.
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -17 pts · 1d
Much like the Irish- people love U2, but don't really give a fuck about Irish independence or the IRA. Just shut up and keep pumping out great albums, and movies like "The Commitments". Give the public dark Guiness in stout glasses and good Belfast (or better yet Dublin!) brogue but keep your weird incomprehensible meh, couldn't care less mess of Irish history & politics. Smartest thing the Irish ever did was make what peace they could back in the 90's. Pali's would be smart to do the same. Nobody really cares about them. Their Arab neighbor's feelings range from indifference to outright hostility (google "black september 1970") The issue as well as the people themselves have become a black spot on the region's prospects for peace and prosperity and have been since 1948- particularly for Arabs. Somebody needs to sit them down and have a little talk about the actual political realities and facts on the ground. Even if they were given their own state tomorrow, the Palestinian territories are a non-viable state. No industry, no economy. They will only survive as a beggar nation utterly dependent on international aid. A giant Arab indian reservation in the middle east. It's a sad situation but it's been 80+ years in the making. Bombed buildings can be rebuilt. Pics of dead babies are mere propaganda at this point, any deaths mere statistics. All of it meaningless. Only when a peace agreement is reached will any of it have any meaning inside the context of history. Until Pali's are ready to take that step, things will continue on as they have. Never losing, but also not winning either. Just more and more meaningless deaths, forgotten and to no real purpose.
Snowies@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 1d
The appropriate response to Israel’s current actions is and should be simple.
The decisions as to where the Israelis should live once extreme appropriations have been rendered to Palestinians however, is not very simple.
There are still 6 million Israelis and while it would be satisfying to do to them what they have been doing to Gaza, I don’t believe in my heart that doing so would be the best we are capable of or be seen as the correct response by future generations. Some of those 6 million people (not a lot, maybe like 30% from what I understand) are actually good people who were just born onto stolen land under an authoritarian government, and they genuinely have nowhere else to go at this current moment.
I think a two state solution with neither one getting the most desired places and those places instead being rendered to a U.N./International body to oversee equal, fair, and open use is be the best interim answer my uneducated ass can currently imagine.
If someone has a better answer not rooted in frustration and revenge, please lift me up. Tell it.
SectoidLexi@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 15 pts · 1d
Here's a better answer: one state, all living in the country have equal rights. Palestinians are given reparations and right to return to their stolen lands. Israelis that directly participated in or orchestrated the genocide must face trial for crimes against humanity just like the Nazis did.
Snowies@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 20h
I like it, but I find it difficult to imagine.
Your mind is more creative and optimistic than mine my friend.
I agree. If it could work, that would probably be better.
To be fair… I don’t even know if my idea could work. I don’t know what the hell the world should do. All I know for sure is… not this. Now what it currently is.
Krumm@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1d
I'm all for if you can't share, then no one can have it. I'm all for a no state solution.
mortn@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 1d
Hey Ed, why don't you just go down and talk to a couple of Palestinians to get make it less complex?
vegafjord@slrpnk.net · 8 pts · 1d
he said it was complex
HAH
funny
isdenzadanielcraig@lemmy.world · -14 pts · 1d
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
Also : He tried playing the victim for a bit.
Gates9@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 1d
WHO THE FUCK LISTENS TO ED SHEERAN?!?!
fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com · 6 pts · 1d
I only know about him because of this mess.
Stefan_S_from_H@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 2d
By the way, how long does the International Court of Justice need to decide? I think things would be much easier then.
moldy_rice@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com · 4 pts · 2d
I just read an article that said it could take until 2030
abc@suppo.fi · 4 pts · 2d
The Wikipedia page documents the process pretty nicely:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa%27s_genocide_case_against_Israel
It's .... complicated.
mirshafie@europe.pub · 6 pts · 1d
Yep. Gaza is not a complex issue. It is overwhelmingly simple. Genocide is a black-and-white issue with zero wiggle room. It is unquestionably evil. Israel has been committing genocide for decades.
The intention of the Zionist movement was to displace Arabs in Palestine since the very beginning. (Ze'ev Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923.)
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 10h
I think this guy is an entertainment puffball who is not cut out to have sophisticated opinions on anything or any opinions about sophisticated matters, but he is fast becoming a textbook case on how that doesn’t matter because you can’t simply throw up your hands at genocide and say “I’m not a political person.”
betanumerus@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 1d
Ed is taking a lot of hits lately. He may not be saying the right things but if you deal with any bank or insurance company, your money is probably being invested in companies (S&P500 companies) involved in the middle east directly or indirectly, intentionally or not. Taking action also means watching how your money and savings are being used.
Draegur@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 15h
"genocide bad" is not complex at all, actually.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 11h
Is it genocide though?
Yes
UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory concludes Israel has committed genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip
grrgyle@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 2d
I hate to focus on this one asshole when there's a real life genocide happening, but he's just so inept. It's hard to look away.
Does the guy not have like one Arab friend to school him on the history here?
moldy_rice@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com · 2 pts · 2d
Arabs include Zionists too btw.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Hey Ed, I heard Kid Rock has some free time in his schedule, maybe he'd open for you.
detren@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 19h
The only thing making it complex is that Jews were the victims of a genocide too. Nothing more to it than humans not learning from history.
Son_of_Macha@lemmy.cafe · 4 pts · 1d
Nah Ed you're just thick
Greymattertripp@lemmus.org · 4 pts · 1d
Why is anyone surprised?
Soleos@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 13h
World War II was also the most geopolitically complex issue on the planet.
FreddiesLantern@leminal.space · 3 pts · 18h
It's not that complex Ed, just look at Elon Musk and Steve Bannon. They know how to express exactly what they mean.
Almost sounds like you have reservations about being a spineless pos.
michaelmrose@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2d
It is. Not genociding any group of people there absolutely isn't complicated at all.
myyass@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2d
I played this stealth game, and you sneak around and one of the enemies is chopping a corpse while saying "axe goes in, blood comes out" so what's so hard to understand? What a wanker.
JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 2d
Ed, sometimes it's best to just shut the fuck up. This is one of those times.
moldy_rice@piefed.keyboardvagabond.com · 8 pts · 2d
Disagree. He had an obligation to apologize, admit fault, and say publicly that killing civilians is a war crime.
JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1d
Fair, I only meant that he should stop digging himself deeper
kreskin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
its an ethical and moral layup. He just doesnt want to admit he's pro war crimes.
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 11h
So tired to hear about this hobbit it's not even funny.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d
Hey Ed, you are talented but you are a horrible human being. Fuck you from the bottom of my heart.
altphoto@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 1d
At least he didn't support this guy:
https://sh.itjust.works/post/55486542
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 1d
If anyone calls Gaza a political issues they are already taking a stance. Genocide isn't political.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · -6 pts · 2d
This is like explaining the world to children who can only think of things only in terms of "good guys" and "bad guys".
It's possible that Hamas (who murders children) might not be the noble freedom fighters the social media algorithms have made you believe. It's possible that Palestinians have some issues with bad leaders just as Israel does. It may even be possible that none of the countries in the Middle East have good leaders.
You may even want to consider the possibility that there are good people throughout the Middle East, the problem is it's just shitty people that are in power. The reasons for this involve religion, history, grievances because of past conflicts, high concentration of wealth in the hand a a few people, corruption, etc.
If your goal is peace, shit's complicated there.
Spreading hatred and encouraging more conflict is simple. For those of us that want peace, it's complicated.
QueenHawlSera@piefed.social · 11 pts · 2d
It's not complicated, Israel needs to stop the killing
theherk@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1d
Even if all or any of that were true, there is no excuse for the genocide.
Genocide bad. Simple.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social · 4 pts · 1d
It's incredible how difficult is for some people to understand that an ethnic cleanse is bad WHATEVER THE FUCKING COLOR OF THE VICTIMS.
hoppeduponcoffee@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 1d
Islamofascism and terrorism is a direct, consequential reaction to Western and Israeli imperialism. America and Israel deliberately created it and continues to support its existence. Western powers want this to serve the wealthy ruling class. 9/11 and beheaded children/civilians are just the costs of doing business.
It was the America/Israeli axis that promoted the rise of religiofascists in the region, in an attempt install sympathetic puppets to serve the interests of the axis. Predictably, the people turned to “strongmen,”extremist theocrats who vowed revenge and to save them from oppression. They appealed to their religion to garner support. Sound familiar?
You need to create a villain to blame, in order to distract the populace from your own wickedness. We need an excuse to keep fighting the “bad guys” in order to replace them with more Western capitalist puppets.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 1d
Boo-hoo, we don't like balanced views here!
abc@suppo.fi · -8 pts · 2d
The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.
(Not going to start listening the Sheeran though, for the simple reason that his music is pretty meh)
Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 1d
This story has been an over heated nothing-burger from the start. Who the fuck cares what Ed Sheeran thinks?