Yeah. "We're sorry for his family that he's dead, regardless of who he was as a person, that's gotta suck for them." Totally fine.
"And here this embodiment of literally everything wrong with America, directly responsible for the deaths of thousands, instrumental in weakening the norms of integrity and public interest for his own financial gain and helping in some small way to lay the foundation for our current debacle, a punchline of corruption and slaughter, infamous in the news and reviled in public life, he's got my vote though! You see I am not willing to deal in uncomfortable truths even when the public can see them unanimously" could have been omitted.
To be fair, her wording is written very politically. You could say it of pretty much any top political figure -- good or bad -- and have it be true
Cheney caused a lot of death and suffering. Sometimes it was through his actions as a leader, other times his incompetence with a gun. He was dedicated though, spent much of his life in politics
Oh no they can just insult, scold, and abandon their voters and they will still come home. You don't understand, Democratic politicians are entitled to the votes of minorities.
But, but, but ... no matter the politics of their candidate clicking their heels and saying the magic words "vote us to stop the other guy" has always worked as their main electoral strategy.
Obviously with such a magical and infallible electoral strategy, this election loss can only be explained by there being something wrong with the voters themselves as that strategy makes the quality and politics of the candidate be irrelevant!
Between her and Ezra Klein, I'm starting to think politicians and pundits who don't really stand for anything are afraid they'll be forgotten about if they don't chip in their two cents on anything and everything.
Centrist Democrats seem to have a compulsive need to virtue signal at every opportunity. They don’t have good policy so they have to prove their moral superiority, which might have worked a decade ago, but just makes them look spineless now.
Tbf she’s practicing what she preaches by saying something. Christian values would be to ‘love your neighbor and enemy’. Personally, I think she still truly believes in Biden’s of message bipartisanship being possible.
As a person, she showed dignity and respect for someone that held views that were quite different from her own. A leader tries to build bridges rather than more walls.
I’d say it’s more about the people still around than the man himself. Each death can be a tragedy to someone, in this case it would be his immediate family, his friends, and the people in his community that like the Cheney the person, not necessarily the politician. Harris wanting to help with the pain those people are experiencing is a kind gesture to those people. Salt in the wound isn’t going to have any effect on Cheney, but it will on those still here that are experiencing pain from his passing.
Personally, I don’t want to be like those on the Right. I would rather live a life where each person’s life has value innately. Those who’s lives were negatively impacted and abruptly ended by the man’s policies have not experienced justice either. I can only hope we learn to be more caring than those who came before us to end the cycle of greed and violence.
Words of affirmation about the positive aspects about the man are not praises of his unjust actions. Building bridges sometimes involves seeing the good in the bad. People in Red, Purple, and Blue states that are diehard Republicans are people we will and do encounter every day.
Finding areas to build common ground helps to foster a stronger community. The common ground in this case being the loss of human life is awful, even for people that are strangers to me or may see me as an enemy. I believe that showing love in life and in death matters if we want to break down the barriers of separation.
It's absolutely a way of handwavling the evil he did. It makes light of the abscess he was on society.
I'm not talking about your average voter, many of whom are victims of disinformation. I'm talking about a man who knowingly orchestrated a massive death toll through fraud and deceit, in exchange for money and the chance to abuse power.
Some people should not have theit free positive traits mentioned, as they were inconsequential compared to their atrocities.
I'll also point out maga don't like Cheney, they think he's a rino. Democrats don't like Cheney because of the war crimes and corruption. No one actually likes Cheney, there's nothing to be gained by finding someone move to say about him. Just say nothing.
It's absolutely a way of handwavling the evil he did. It makes light of the abscess he was on society.
I disagree about the hand waving part.
I'm not talking about your average voter, many of whom are victims of disinformation. I'm talking about a man who knowingly orchestrated a massive death toll through fraud and deceit, in exchange for money and the chance to abuse power.
I’m not saying he’s a good man by any stretch of the word, I’m that there’s not an issue with one person showing dignity to another in death.
Some people should not have theit free positive traits mentioned, as they were inconsequential compared to their atrocities.
I agree to an extent, that extent being the actual death of the person and speaking about aspects of their life where there was commonality at the time of their death.
I'll also point out maga don't like Cheney, they think he's a rino. Democrats don't like Cheney because of the war crimes and corruption. No one actually likes Cheney, there's nothing to be gained by finding someone move to say about him. Just say nothing.
It’s not about gaining something. It’s about showing humanity to the people that knew him in his personal life. Showing you care about people dying isn’t a bad thing.
The problem with this is that none of it is rooted in reality. Pretty much everything you've said is just jibber jabber about your discomfort with being mean.
The right is not motivated by this gentle soothing of their pain. They don't even remotely care about it. They gleefully jeer at us every time someone tries to take a hammer to a democrat's head, every time black democrats in congress are murdered, every time Mexicans bound in chains are loaded single-file onto planes; they do not believe in this kindness you are affording them. It does not affect them.
When they complain about the public reaction to things like Charlie Kirk, they say those things because it bothers us, not because they care.
What this means is that the right gets to view themselves as strong, self-actualized, Roman warriors for racism freedom, and we are always putting the ball gag in our own mouths.
It is a culture of disempowerment. I'm not saying Harris should be jeering necessarily, but she should not be doing whatever the hell this is. It serves no one.
This is just making a mountain out of a mole hill, imo. We don’t need to be like the Right about everything. I understand your sentiment but we can’t take a minute to say it’s a person that died?
I’m not saying we can’t be justifiably upset about bigotry and hate that comes from the other side. In fact we should be. But there are some things we can have standard about still and where we don’t need to mirror the worst offenders on the Right.
I don’t see it as having some kind of self-gag for showing empathy about death and the ways people lend a hand to others when they personally experience grief. There’s a billion justifiable things to say about who Cheney was and the magnitude of his actions as well as the harm caused, but that doesn’t mean need to jump on people wanting to show an ounce of kindness to his family and friends.
I’d say Harris isn’t even relevant to the main conversation to a degree. I doubt she wins the next primary if she enters it anyways. So her extending an olive branch couldn’t hurt imo.
I said I don’t want to be like those on those the Right for their callousness.
I’m not saying you can’t hate the guy, I just don’t think it’s worth nitpicking a person, who is a politician, showing kindness after someone has died.
Yeah I’m sure all the people whos families died as a direct result of Cheney are glad American politicians are being so nice to him after he died to save his families feelings.
It cost her absolutely nothing to just stay silent, friend.
This isn't building bridges though. No Republican is going to be moved or softened by this statement. It's going to actively alienate the people who are supposed to like you though. The best move is to simply say nothing at all.
All this bullshit tells me is that those in power are still seeing this as nothing but business, like what we're going through is simply a contract negotiation. No hard feelings. That they can watch their colleagues cause the death and misery of thousands and then leave that at the door and go grab a drink with that person.
It may or may not be building some bridges, I can’t say you’re wrong because there is a lot of truth in what you are saying, unfortunately.
The fact that politics is treated as a team sport by the Right, where this type of message of caring from Harris and other Democrats will just go to fade into the void, is part of the problem with the media and political sphere we have allowed to fester.
I feel that social media has opened the door to too much open hostility to acts of kindness. Strategizing around a best move politically rather than having an open heart, even to people that may hate you.
I think having an open heart means treating your interactions with others like it isn’t just business. I’m sure many politicians do have issues with the selfish and self-centered actions of one’s peers. I don’t think that necessarily reflects on the way people show kindness to one another when they experience a personal hardship or how they interact with their families. Maybe it’s Democrats trying to chip at the cold exterior with some of the Republicans; I personally don’t think politics will always be like they currently are where media plays up the divide.
I feel that social media has opened the door to too much open hostility to acts of kindness. Strategizing around a best move politically rather than having an open heart, even to people that may hate you.
It was Harris' choice to post this publicly for people to react to. If it was simply about being kind then it could've been a private communication to the Cheney family directly.
It was performative at its core and woefully out of touch as well.
And people have agency for how they react as well. Being open about it can be seen as saying that it’s okay to show care for one another in times of personal tragedy. He was someone that Harris knew personally as well.
I’d say it’s pushing against-the-grain rather than out of touch. There is so much need out to play sides about every aspect of life. Some things don’t need to be about scoring points.
I’m speaking to her actions, not her current role in public services. There’s something very apparent that is missing in government today and that thing is leadership.
Christians really love to preach how moral they are by praising pedophiles, racists and racists, don't they?
Fuck you respect and values. Respect is earned and values are knowing how to embrace the good and distancing yourself from the bad. Not your Hollywood version of it.
So Abe Lincoln was going to put Simon Cameron in his cabinet. Cameron was kind of a piece of shit, and so Thaddeus Stevens when he heard this got alarmed. When questioned about if he was really saying that Cameron would steal, Thaddeus Stevens thought for a minute and said, well, "I don't think he would steal a red-hot stove."
So the story got around because it is funny. Abe Lincoln in particular thought it was one of the funniest things he ever heard (also while he made Cameron Secretary of War) and told many people. So eventually of course it got back to Cameron. Cameron was pissed, and angrily demanded that Stevens take back the slur on his character.
So Thaddeus Stevens after Cameron had yelled at him said, "Well, he is very mad, and he made me promise to retract. I will now do so. I believe I told you he would not steal a red-hot stove. I now take that back."
She did very openly get close to the Cheney familiy during her presidential campaign, so she might very well think that according to her own values he had done nothing wrong.
It seems to me that one of the core problems of the Democrat Party leadership which has led to their candidate being defeated once again by none other than Donald "Sex Offender" Trump, is exactly that their values are pretty much compatible with Cheney's.
He was one of the few high-profile Republicans willing to stand by his condemnation of Trump after January 6th, even when the party came crawling back and that stance became a huge liability for him and his daughter. I can respect that.
Not doing one out 1000 horrible things is not worthy of respect.
In fact, opposing it fits Cheney's character because his entire evil persona was based on getting everyone else to do his evil bidding within the working government. Someone trying to overthrow a system he manipulated was a personal attack by Trump. Cheney didn't oppose it out of his love for America or anything, he opposed it because it undermined his life's work and he took it personally.
Yeah. And Hitler liked his dog. Definitely peoples-is-peoples kind of things but if i was a global political figure i might err on the side of quiet for some sentiments.
Trump’s gonna bite it one of these days and when he does, any self-conscious politician who hopes to win office with a progressive bent better watch their fuckin p’s and q’s.
Democrats are mostly reasonable, and responsible, but as in the last forty years, there’s an opportunity to destroy fascists (like Cheney) and the more they ignore it the more they lose. It’s a fine line, to be sure, between “responsible tomorrow / better jobs” and “BLOOOOOOOD!!!”. But they need to have thought that through again because their consultants are old and broken.
Justice and Politics need to sort their shit out yesterday.
Hitler didn't actually like his dog. Or... it's complicated. He threatened to kill Blondi because someone else played with her, he would beat all his dogs or hit them with a riding whip when they were disobedient (he said "it was necessary"), and when he decided to kill himself with cyanide, he told the doctor to test the cyanide first on Blondi. She died.
He did seem like he emotionally enjoyed being with his dogs, but he was too much of a psychopath to really have a normal human-to-dog relationship with them or to give them actual affection in return. The whole thing of him being a dog lover was mostly Nazi propaganda.
Yeah okay well he was gakked to the gills for a few years there so yknow. But he killed himself . . . they say . . . right afterwards so i like to think he thought he was taking his dog with him. Although yeah a complete nutter and history’s greatest monster.
(Recent history’s greatest monster? Ok nerds, I hear you shifting uncomfortably, wanting to tell everyone about Stalin, Pol Pot, Napoleon etc etc. Just relax. )
Why do liberals not realize that the right will NEVER vote for them no matter how much they pander, and everyone else hates them because they have no moral or ethical compass.
If you're saying "Kamala Harris y'all" in 2025 and this response surprises you, then you need to seriously get your shit sorted out. She made it plain who she was last year. It's why she didn't get elected.
Still using First Past The Post voting in a majority of states. Almost like the democrats and Republicans like the hostage situation they've created together.
She made it plain who she was last year. It’s why she didn’t get elected.
Not really dude lol
I mean yes it's accurate that if she had been Bernie Sanders or said popular things she would probably have won. But also, the exclusive and passionate focus on how much the left was officially ordered to hate her for a variety of reasons, and not pay any attention to what an objective catastrophe Trump would be in such a huge variety of ways, is pretty fuckin' significant.
If your child decides to go high dive into an empty swimming pool instead of go to the museum, then sure, maybe the museum's not age appropriate or it features some colonialism. That could have made a difference. Yes. But, also, there are clearly more fundamental things that are wrong.
“Harris supports genocide so you shouldn’t vote” was like shooting fish in a barrel. That it folded perfectly into russia’s goals for the election is pure coincidence.
If the left is that easy to order around, why didn't the Democrats just order them to vote for her?
Democrats suck at messaging. See Democratic consultants for more information.
Just waving every failure in US politics as a Russian master-stroke plot is really getting old. You have the largest surveillance tech in the whole wide world, show proof or GTFO with your conspiracies.
So here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about:
If you had to pick one most damning issue that was the place where she made it plain who she was last year, that lost her support, what would it be? What do you think the biggest one was, if you had to pick one?
Speaking as someone who's not American, I lost hope for her campaign when she made a show of getting endorsements from some pretty reprehensible Republicans (including but not limited to Dick Cheney).
I really would be happy to. I need them to answer my question first, though, in order to make the point that I want to make. Instead they evaporated, which means I don't owe them continuation of the conversation with the blank void they've left in their absence.
I'd say her attitude towards the Palestinian protesters at her rally in Detroit was the last straw for me. It was a misstep that may have been due to pressures of running a rushed campaign and the stress of detractors at every stop, but to carry on and at no point express common goals with the protesters showed her hand well enough for me.
She has always been pretty shit. That much is indisputable.
Voting for her was still the correct thing to do (and what I did), because the degree of Trump's fascism and corruption is much greater and more dangerous.
But it's incredibly naive to think this behavior of hers is in any way new. It's exactly who she's always been.
It's fascinating to see her keep saying things that reveal the fatal flaw in her campaign. It's not that she listened to her advisors back then, although they did give her bad advice. Rather, she's lacking values that resonate with the majority of the American people. We all know that the old man was a terrible human being, and yeah, it is probably sad for his family that he passed away, but most of us would simply not say his name again. He earned no respect as a public figure, and we can treat ourselves with dignity by not bringing him up ever again.
Of course you also might want a trash talk him, because of all the horrible things he did, and that's okay too. I think either approach is fine, but the one approach that's not fine is whitewashing all the horrible things he did in his life.
She never was a fantastic choice, and the proof for that is that Trump is president. Had she been a fantastic choice, people would have voted for her. But sure, keep blaming all the voters for the Democrat inability to place someone remotely humane and electable instead of Ms. "We love Cheney and the US needs to have the most lethal armed forces in the world".
It's crazy to me that, after the resounding victory by a progressive that we've seen two days ago, you keep blaming the voters. As soon as someone remotely progressive appeared in an election, people went to vote for him in droves. Mamdani is a literal Muslim millennial, hardly the most appreciated demographic in the USA, and yet he smashed the opponents despite constant smear campaigns. Maybe there's a lesson or two you could learn from that?
How does this surprise you? Kamala is a Depublican. That is basically just a Republican that wears blue and has 1-2 liberal thoughts in their head.
Still big business, still preaches about "reaching across the table" (to give big biz a handy j).
Biden was just as bad if not worse ... that MFer had the house and senate 21-23. Where is Medicare for all? Federal minimum wage? Women's reproductive right protections?
Oh ... well that is weird.
Biden was just as bad if not worse … that MFer had the house and senate 21-23. Where is Medicare for all? Federal minimum wage? Women’s reproductive right protections?
Oh … well that is weird.
Biden raised corporate tax by about a trillion dollars and spent it all on climate change and reducing income inequality by actually going to bat for the poorest people in this country, and y'all still spent all this time shitting on him. I get it. We needed a lot more. But this whole thing "Biden was a monster, I don't even know any good thing he did" is mostly just a creation of our media not really caring about poor people or vital issues (enough to see any of that as significant) any more than Trump does. He was way ahead of the curve in the blighted landscape of corruption and lies that is American governance.
Biden threw a couple billion dollars of that climate change money to GM to develop an EV car, which anyone working in GM or even living in Michigan will tell you is not gonna happen lmao. All while banning foreign Chinese EVs from competing because of "safety" and "market protections".
Biden was a downgrade from Obama, and people already called Obama a coconut for his rather insane war crime history and ICE enforcement.
Stop glazing that geriatric fool's failure to permanently dispose of Trump. He cheated you all out of a fair primary and spent his time in office throwing pennies worth of improvements in the aftermath of Trump's first term.
Even ignoring Kamala's horrendous campaign, he is the primary reason why Trump is currently in office again.
Biden threw a couple billion dollars of that climate change money to GM to develop an EV car, which anyone working in GM or even living in Michigan will tell you is not gonna happen lmao. All while banning foreign Chinese EVs from competing because of “safety” and “market protections”.
This is sort of a standard talking point to use to attack the IRA's climate actions. It is true, and it sounds bad, and so by telling up this little anecdote about one particular thing it did, you can spin up a picture that aligns with how you want people to see the whole of the act, without asking the question, how big a percent of the whole was that "couple billion dollars", and how effective was the rest of it?
To me, the most important thing is, "What will this do to emissions?" Everything else is bullshit. If it reduces the amount by which we're killing the planet, I don't care if some money goes to GM or whatever else.
"The research teams found that the IRA will dramatically cut U.S carbon emissions, with economy-wide emissions reductions between 43 and 48% below 2005 levels by 2035, but not enough to reach 50% below peak levels by 2030, as the U.S. has pledged. The results were published in the journal Science on June 29.
“'IRA doubles the pace of reductions but should have tripled it to hit our 2030 climate goals and get on the path to net-zero by 2050,' Jenkins says."
It's the first time in US history that anyone's ever done something that significant. Is it enough? Fuck no. Does it include a bunch of gifts to huge corporations? I'm sure it does. It is worth remembering that all that money came from the corporations in the first place, in the form of increased taxes, so it's not as much of a grift as normal DC nonsense is. But it's definitely not a fake, although it's easy to grab individual parts of it that make it sound like it is and spin them up and poo poo the whole thing.
Biden was a downgrade from Obama, and people already called Obama a coconut for his rather insane war crime history and ICE enforcement.
Y'all don't remember what it was like before the ACA. Also, I know two people personally who were only not deported because of Obama's immigration reforms. One is here (for now) on DACA, and one was actually caught right before 2009 and was fighting his deportation when Obama came in, and Obama's reforms slowed down the process enough that long story short he was able to stay in the country.
I'm sure people were calling Obama a coconut. You also don't remember Clinton. For anyone who is paying attention, the arc Clinton -> Obama -> Biden is very obviously leftward. But, most people in the US don't really look at politics in terms of paying attention, it's all just confident assertion and little turns of phrase like "coconut" and then you sit back all proud of yourselves.
When was the last time Obama raised corporate tax by a trillion dollars?
Part of the IRA was a huge investment in domestic manufacturing and in strengthening government support for unions. It resulted in a big increase in working-class wages even when correcting for punishing Covid inflation that wasn't Biden fault.
He was the most vocal supporter of the state engaging in torture. Firstly it's an evil thing to do. But even if you don't care about that, as an American the 8th amendment prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, this is why they had to do it outside US soil. And if you don't love America or the rule of law either, then you should know that the experts agree it doesn't fucking help. Torture doesn't get you good information, it can be used as a population control technique, but it's a risky one that can really backfire, ask Ghaddafi.
She will definitely be in the primary, assuming there is one (I just doubt that establishment Dems would dare keep her out), but my hope is that she will get squashed pretty quickly.
Haha just spend five minutes on Lemmy. People here be writing essays and bitching 24/7. Cmon now, let's be real. It's not like lefties are doing much to build coalitions and power in the states. Other places, yes.
I'm not the one going out of my way ostrasizing every liberal and bitching 24/7 about capitalism. It's the only thing I see on Lemmy. Don't tell me it's not true.
Polite words after someone kicks the bucket, whoever they may be, is politics, understandable.
That said, it does seem like she went out of her way to lay it on thick, didn't she? With a nasty synthetic aftertaste to it. She chose her words carefully and it looks like her kissing the boot of a fucking goddamned sick soulless monster.
Here's my obituary for cheney:
He shot a man in the face, then abused his tremendous privilege to avoid police questioning for 36 hours, after he'd had time to sober up, even as he got hundreds of thousands of people killed by kicking a hornet's nest in the Middle East, all for oil profit of his Halliburton and Clearwater buddies.
Rest not, but wallow in shit and eternal damnation,
Dick "Why Don't You Go FUCK YOURSELF?!!" Cheney
I think polite words are fine, but when she started praising him, that was simply inappropriate. Either she actually believes what she said or she was lying about the praise. Offering condolences to the family alone would have sufficed.
She's basically an '80s republican so I'd say the praise was genuine. The fact that we were forced to choose between her and the orange fascist wasn't really a choice. It was literally the lesser of two evils and a lot of people decided not to choose because of it. Which is why we are here.
As much blane as republicans have for how fucked up things are right now, democrats share a good portion of the blame for shoving this tool down our throats.
And before you all start in with the "if only you had bothered to vote". I fucking did vote. It didn't end up mattering.
The “Not Voters” were such an insignificantly small portion of voters (ie, people who usually vote but abstained or voted 3rd party in 2024) that even if every one of them voted for Kamala, she still would have lost. Her failure was instead due to the Democrats fundamental refusal to see that the status quo does not work for regular people.
Polite words after someone kicks the bucket, whoever they may be, is politics, understandable
What did US politicians say when Gaddafi was murdered? Honest question
Edit: I looked up what Obama had to say when Gaddafi was murdered:
"Today, the government of Libya announced the death of Muammar Qaddafi. This marks the end of a long and painful chapter for the people of Libya, who now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny in a new and democratic Libya.
For four decades, the Qaddafi regime ruled the Libyan people with an iron fist. Basic human rights were denied. Innocent civilians were detained, beaten and killed. And Libya’s wealth was squandered. The enormous potential of the Libyan people was held back, and terror was used as a political weapon"
Noooo but muh purity test! We need to take what we can get! The DNC should have banned Mamdani from running so that Kamala could run in New York instead and if you think that's a bad idea that's just because you let your delusional perfect fantasies be the enemy of the good , well, the okay , er... the...
it’s not a “purity test”.
i wish she wouldn’t have been cheated when she won the presidency, but she’s a terrible person and terrible representative.
Dick Cheney led us into a multi-year war in Iraq based entirely on lies and made millions of dollars from it… he’s responsible for thousands of murders, ruining millions of lives, and damaging billions of lives.
“muh purity test” it’s not… it’s the “don’t praise war criminals” test
…. or maybe YOU have the WMD’s in your backyard?
Yeah rereading my comment, I see what's confusing about it - I'm condemning the people who condemn purity tests. I support the purity tests (aka having standards for our representatives).
here i go preaching to the choir again.
my bad, i missed the sarcasm….
purity testing is definitely a tactic of misinformation, but obviously Harris is dirty af….
Kamala wasn't involved in national politics at the same time as cheney. When cheney was last in office, Kamala was the district attorney of SF, an local office that only deals with the laws of California. No plausible working relationship between the two. They were not even interacting with the same laws. They worked in entirely different levels of government. There is no need for any statement.
Regardless of politics, any statement like this will sound disingenuous. If she knows Lynne, Liz, Mary, and the entire family well enough to have them in her thoughts, she could tell them directly. Calling someone to wish them the best in a hard time is a commendable act. Making a public statement telling other people that you care about someone else is just weird.
This is what trying to meet in the middle with people who will never, ever vote for you looks like: you just alienate people who would normally vote for you by sounding like a freaking moron space alien.
His family continue his path. His daughter Liz was running a US support covert operations to funnel money to group in foreign countries under the name of development.
These people business and connections are built on the killing and murdering of innocent people.
To me, it's not about whether I like any of them and more the humanity in losing a father. I'm not demanding everyone mention them and say they're sorry, but I'm not mad when people do give condolences as long as they also say the kind of things graham platner said along with it
Stuff like this reminds me why they lose to fascists. When they like to say the proto-fascists are practicing politics correctly it really waters down their message and what is at stake.
Nah, her campaign page was amazing: tax the rich, expand healthcare, promote overturning citizens united, bodily autonomy, the works.
She lost because nobody believed a single word of it when she hung out with the worst campaign team imaginable for those stances, participating in advertisements with fucking eagles and open prairies.
Sometimes people feel a emotional attachment to the people they worked close with
According to Google, "Kamala Harris and Dick Cheney never worked together in the same administration or government body. Their careers in public service largely occurred in different eras and levels of government."
Lack of link to (archived) source (per rule 4) creates a usability issue: we can't quote the text without pointless bullshit like retyping it or OCR.
:::spoiler Other issues when image lacks text alternative such as link
authenticability: we can't verify the authenticity of the reproduction unless we go on a fishing expedition for the source
usability: can't reflow text to varied screen sizes or vary presentation (size, contrast) or modality (audio, braille), we can't find by text content
accessibility: some users can't read this due to misleading alt text, users can't adapt the text for dyslexia or vision impairments, systems can't read the text to them or send it to braille devices
searchability: the "text" isn't indexable by search engine in a meaningful way
fault tolerance: no text fallback if image breaks.
Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images.
:::
A link to a text-based source is useful.
I've never heard her called that tbh. Obama was actually a pretty good politician who got the public to believe things could actually change for the better. They didn't and he didn't actually do that but he made people believe in it in a way Harris never did.
"Today, the government of Libya announced the death of Muammar Qaddafi. This marks the end of a long and painful chapter for the people of Libya, who now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny in a new and democratic Libya.
For four decades, the Qaddafi regime ruled the Libyan people with an iron fist. Basic human rights were denied. Innocent civilians were detained, beaten and killed. And Libya’s wealth was squandered. The enormous potential of the Libyan people was held back, and terror was used as a political weapon."
Kamala is not being formulaic, it's a willful endorsement of the war criminal that Cheney was.
More than enough sadly, as evident by his stellar political career. We don't cater to people, every politicians jobb is to cater to as many of the people as possible. They have votes. DoiI take your meaning correctly that we should ignore political minorities (which they are not) because you deem them worthless (which their votes certainly are not)? I always thought that's more of a fascist view of things. :p
Yeah, we should exclude them from anything and everything we can until they stop being bigoted pieces of shit and supporting war criminals. If we need to compromise with people like that to win an election this country is lost.
I agree. But the lack of compromise is what got us in this situation in the first place. Democracy is about compromise, because if you don't need to compromise one of both extremes takes over there country and that does not end good for either side really. Look at the us while the "other side" wins. Can you see all the winning they are doing? Not pleasant for anyone, is it?
Exactly. Ask the populous, they decide. Nobody is above democracy or the law. Nobody gets to murder the Muslims or Jews. Nobody gets to murder trans people etc. Because everybody agrees murdering humans is bad.
Ya a big + to the Trump admin is him rounding up all the old guard federal dems and tossing them in prison. What they get for co-opting the left in Hamburgerland.
I remember when sending condolences when one of your political opponents died was viewed as graceful and even expected. Now it’s a weakness? Or is it that the black woman needs to be criticized for everything she does?
Politics without is just a fuckin’ schoolyard fistfight, and we’ve had too much of that.
No, we haven't actually. What we've had too much of is the bullies pushing around the brown kid because he looks different (which in this analogy of course refers to the mass slaughter of civilians), with one of the two bullies occasionally showing some sign of reluctance or concern that they might get in trouble for it, and then caving and appeasing the other bully when they make fun of them for it.
What "fistfights" are you even talking about? When have the democrats ever actually (metaphorically) thrown hands, or not bent over backwards to appease the republicans, even to the point of going after minorities? The shutdown is the first time I can remember in the past 20 years that they actually showed an ounce of spine.
I would love to start seeing some political fistfights instead of having this "harmony" or "cooperation" between the two bullies.
I don’t want to be neighbors with war criminals. The reason we are where we are today is because of collaborators like Harris white-washing the crimes of terrorists like Cheney.
all she had to say was "condolences to the family"... instead of lifting him up like he was some sort of good thing for society. He was a war criminal. Should've been tried in The Hague and should've rotted in jail.
I hope one day you get to be on the receiving end of some of the "differences of opinion" Cheney held. (Not really, no one deserves the things he did to millions of people)
What the hell is wrong with sending condolences to a colleagues family? Looks like the bots won if people are posting heinous bullshit like this and getting all stirred up. Well done little bots!
"I am saddened to learn of the passing of former fuhrer Adolph Hitler.
Herr Hitler was a devoted public servant, from the halls of the Reichstag to many positions of leadership in many countries across Europe. His passing marks the loss of a figure who, with a strong sense of dedication, gave so much of his life to the country that he loved."
But yeah I guess you're right, there's nothing wrong with sending condolences to a colleague's family, the thing that's wrong is that she considered Cheney a colleague in the first place.
When Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of the French Nazi party, died, the presidency made a press release which was essentially "condolences to the family, history will be his only judge". No need to praise him.
I assume that she had to say something because she's friends with Liz Cheney. Not a good look, though, and she should really ask herself how she got here.
I mean....the second is more truthful. I don't think having compassion for a horrible person is a good thing. The guy is largely responsible for the deaths of over a million people.
Decorum is a massive understatement. Democrats have a civility fetish. During a fascist descent, decorum and civility do nothing other than preserving the status quo. They are obsessed with procedure and elevate it almost to a godlike status. It's also why theyve been losing so hard in recent years. Republicans have no problem employing rhetoric and breaking procedure. Democrats are consistently bringing knives to gun fights.
Democrats are consistently bringing knives to gun fights.
Democrats are consistently bringing tea and cupcakes to gun fights.
Pritzger and Mamdani are winning with the public, and hopefully more candidates will see and follow in their footsteps. They are at least bringing knives and planning to do their level best. But how Chuck Schumer saw Pelosi's husband get his skull fractured with a hammer and still came out saying "I think we can work out a compromise for the good of the country" and similar bullshit is baffling to me.
Liz also campaigned on Harris’ behalf. It is possible they ate cordial and this is just her saying something nice about a friend’s dad after he passed.
Yeah, I get that. But at the same time, the whole reason I actually kind of like Liz Cheney is that as far as I can tell she has some integrity unlike her father.
She surely knows her dad's a piece of shit. It's almost more cruel to his memory to specifically call attention to everything he did in public political life so that people can laugh at you for lying about it in this over-the-top way. Just say he will be missed and your thoughts are with his family and move the fuck on.
Kamala saying that he was a great public servant is a spit in the face to the millions of people whose lives were lost and ruined by Dick Cheney's ghoulish and murderous legacy. No civility with war criminals.
Politics are just a different version of adult highschool drama... It's so fucking aggravating.
There's no win.
She say nothing/something muted: She's so disrespectful! She couldn't even muster up one nice thing to say about a public servant!
She says something: She's so disgusting! He was a war criminal and an absolute piece of shit cancer on society. (facts.)
Obviously it's not the same person saying both these things, but a potential support loss is always a calculation you need to have when saying literally anything.
The American left just wants to eat trump shit by the look of it. All you guys do is tear down everyone who opposes trump. wtf would anyone want to run?
The rest of the world thinks you guys are a bunch of babies
Mamdani literally just got elected, what the hell are you talking about? There were no "American leftists" sabotaging Mamdani the way you claim they did to Kamala. Maybe, just maybe, when you run a humane, electable and progressive candidate, you win elections? Maybe running ghoul after ghoul and war criminal after war criminal as an alternative to Trump isn't the best strategy?
Dick Chaney is one of the biggest war criminals of all time who is directly responsible for killing literally millions of people. This is the same thing. They both represent a class of people who are united against all of us.
Without the middle paragraph, it would have been that yes. Going out of her way to pretend he was anything other than a horrifying monster responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands could have been omitted, for someone who's trying to market herself as having any level of integrity or representing the judgement of the people.
That middle paragraph reads like a bland, milquetoast kind of non-statement statement that Kamala used just to fill the space in her post to me but you do you. If you've got a lot of hate you need to get out, and this is the thing you can spend it on, then fire away.
Dick fucking Cheney needs to be called the fuck out. Now. While he’s top of mind for a nation of children and goldfish.
That middle paragraph was probably because they crossed lines to support her and she has a different perspective than those who were tortured and killed so this bastard could live like a king but that ain’t gonna get it and because she doesn’t know that she done fucked up.
She is sucking his dick by praising his 'public service', which consists of starting a war based on lies and screwing over the public to benefit the wealthy.
It is really dick sucking him tho. Calling that pice of shit a devoted public servant after he was instrumental in getting us into a war that was only as popular as it was because they took advantage of the nationalistic xenophobia to let W wage daddy's war again for him, and that's not even getting into the atrocities that were committed both at home and abroad under his direct leadership, and not even mentioning ANY of that might as well be sucking him off.
I can understand "don't speak ill of the dead', but these fuckers should also understand "don't speak of a war criminal on glowing terms". It's a bad look and it's one of the many reasons yet another milquetoast democratic lost the against the worst politician in modern history.
No. TrackinDaKraken said it best, the first and last paragraphs were fine. The middle one is where she sells out her integrity to tell comforting lies about horrifying crimes, even though everyone can see through them instantly, right at the moment in American politics where the exact polar opposite of that is what's needed. That's not being an adult, that's being an asshole.
Yeah, but we need to be clear, what's being advocated for by the commenter, and being demonstrated by Harris: it's not adult behavior, it's sociopathic behavior.
Cheney was a mass murderer for personal gain. In some ways, you could consider them worse then other mass murderers, whom at least had some misguided sense of idealism guiding them. A million people died and a trillion dollars in US debt were created, in large part by Cheney, purely for personal greed. Not even greed on behalf of a people or nation. just for himself.
It's sociopathic to engage in the act of redemption for a person like Cheney, and it's sociopathic to advocate for it. It's not "adult behavior", it's mental illness.
Hagiography of a war criminal is only "adult" behavior to people who want to cast as childish anyone who disagrees with said hagiography, and your comment has no other purpose.
This is absolutely ridiculous. Dick Cheney was a literal war criminal and responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands if not millions of humans. This is a moment to reflect on the murderous nature of the USA empire and to never make the mistake of letting US politicians do similar shit ever again.
379 Comments
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 191 pts · 301d
She could have left out the middle paragraph, and this still would have been a mature, reasonable response without the praise.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 87 pts · 301d
Yeah. "We're sorry for his family that he's dead, regardless of who he was as a person, that's gotta suck for them." Totally fine.
"And here this embodiment of literally everything wrong with America, directly responsible for the deaths of thousands, instrumental in weakening the norms of integrity and public interest for his own financial gain and helping in some small way to lay the foundation for our current debacle, a punchline of corruption and slaughter, infamous in the news and reviled in public life, he's got my vote though! You see I am not willing to deal in uncomfortable truths even when the public can see them unanimously" could have been omitted.
SARGE@startrek.website · 94 pts · 301d
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 301d
Yeah if he loved America he wouldn't've violated one of its founding tenants across the globe
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 299d
Hmm, yes, interesting. Shall I post what Harris said when Sinwar was killed?
Taldan@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 300d
To be fair, her wording is written very politically. You could say it of pretty much any top political figure -- good or bad -- and have it be true
Cheney caused a lot of death and suffering. Sometimes it was through his actions as a leader, other times his incompetence with a gun. He was dedicated though, spent much of his life in politics
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 299d
He was dedicated to personal power and enrichment
Taldan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 299d
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Dedication doesn't have an inherently positive connotation
eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 167 pts · 301d
Jeez, democrats seem to really like Charlie Kirk and Dick Cheney.
I wonder why they're having trouble with Muslim voters...
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 149 pts · 301d
And Democratic voters
eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 73 pts · 301d
Oh no they can just insult, scold, and abandon their voters and they will still come home. You don't understand, Democratic politicians are entitled to the votes of minorities.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 301d
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 300d
But, but, but ... no matter the politics of their candidate clicking their heels and saying the magic words "vote us to stop the other guy" has always worked as their main electoral strategy.
Obviously with such a magical and infallible electoral strategy, this election loss can only be explained by there being something wrong with the voters themselves as that strategy makes the quality and politics of the candidate be irrelevant!
Tm12@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 300d
This x1000. Ain’t even gotta be Eid al-Adha, Muslims stay the scapegoats for Dems.
lena@gregtech.eu · 119 pts · 301d
She could've just not posted anything about his death
ceenote@lemmy.world · 60 pts · 301d
Between her and Ezra Klein, I'm starting to think politicians and pundits who don't really stand for anything are afraid they'll be forgotten about if they don't chip in their two cents on anything and everything.
lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 301d
Those two are just as dead to me as the dead villains they insisted on lionizing.
rhombus@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 300d
Centrist Democrats seem to have a compulsive need to virtue signal at every opportunity. They don’t have good policy so they have to prove their moral superiority, which might have worked a decade ago, but just makes them look spineless now.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 301d
Tbf she’s practicing what she preaches by saying something. Christian values would be to ‘love your neighbor and enemy’. Personally, I think she still truly believes in Biden’s of message bipartisanship being possible.
As a person, she showed dignity and respect for someone that held views that were quite different from her own. A leader tries to build bridges rather than more walls.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 301d
That’s true but we have limits. Torture and War Criminal are over the line. Showing dignity and respect for Hitler should not be a tweet.
She would have saved us from chaos and violence though.
Those things are two different conversations.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · -9 pts · 301d
I’d say it’s more about the people still around than the man himself. Each death can be a tragedy to someone, in this case it would be his immediate family, his friends, and the people in his community that like the Cheney the person, not necessarily the politician. Harris wanting to help with the pain those people are experiencing is a kind gesture to those people. Salt in the wound isn’t going to have any effect on Cheney, but it will on those still here that are experiencing pain from his passing.
Personally, I don’t want to be like those on the Right. I would rather live a life where each person’s life has value innately. Those who’s lives were negatively impacted and abruptly ended by the man’s policies have not experienced justice either. I can only hope we learn to be more caring than those who came before us to end the cycle of greed and violence.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 21 pts · 301d
You're right, each person's life has innate value. He caused the end of a million innocent lives. The value of his life is in the negatives.
You can offer condolences to the family without praising a pile of shit
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · -4 pts · 300d
Words of affirmation about the positive aspects about the man are not praises of his unjust actions. Building bridges sometimes involves seeing the good in the bad. People in Red, Purple, and Blue states that are diehard Republicans are people we will and do encounter every day.
Finding areas to build common ground helps to foster a stronger community. The common ground in this case being the loss of human life is awful, even for people that are strangers to me or may see me as an enemy. I believe that showing love in life and in death matters if we want to break down the barriers of separation.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 300d
It's absolutely a way of handwavling the evil he did. It makes light of the abscess he was on society.
I'm not talking about your average voter, many of whom are victims of disinformation. I'm talking about a man who knowingly orchestrated a massive death toll through fraud and deceit, in exchange for money and the chance to abuse power.
Some people should not have theit free positive traits mentioned, as they were inconsequential compared to their atrocities.
I'll also point out maga don't like Cheney, they think he's a rino. Democrats don't like Cheney because of the war crimes and corruption. No one actually likes Cheney, there's nothing to be gained by finding someone move to say about him. Just say nothing.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 300d
I disagree about the hand waving part.
I’m not saying he’s a good man by any stretch of the word, I’m that there’s not an issue with one person showing dignity to another in death.
I agree to an extent, that extent being the actual death of the person and speaking about aspects of their life where there was commonality at the time of their death.
It’s not about gaining something. It’s about showing humanity to the people that knew him in his personal life. Showing you care about people dying isn’t a bad thing.
petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 300d
The problem with this is that none of it is rooted in reality. Pretty much everything you've said is just jibber jabber about your discomfort with being mean.
The right is not motivated by this gentle soothing of their pain. They don't even remotely care about it. They gleefully jeer at us every time someone tries to take a hammer to a democrat's head, every time black democrats in congress are murdered, every time Mexicans bound in chains are loaded single-file onto planes; they do not believe in this kindness you are affording them. It does not affect them.
When they complain about the public reaction to things like Charlie Kirk, they say those things because it bothers us, not because they care.
What this means is that the right gets to view themselves as strong, self-actualized, Roman warriors for
racismfreedom, and we are always putting the ball gag in our own mouths.It is a culture of disempowerment. I'm not saying Harris should be jeering necessarily, but she should not be doing whatever the hell this is. It serves no one.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 300d
This is just making a mountain out of a mole hill, imo. We don’t need to be like the Right about everything. I understand your sentiment but we can’t take a minute to say it’s a person that died?
I’m not saying we can’t be justifiably upset about bigotry and hate that comes from the other side. In fact we should be. But there are some things we can have standard about still and where we don’t need to mirror the worst offenders on the Right.
I don’t see it as having some kind of self-gag for showing empathy about death and the ways people lend a hand to others when they personally experience grief. There’s a billion justifiable things to say about who Cheney was and the magnitude of his actions as well as the harm caused, but that doesn’t mean need to jump on people wanting to show an ounce of kindness to his family and friends.
I’d say Harris isn’t even relevant to the main conversation to a degree. I doubt she wins the next primary if she enters it anyways. So her extending an olive branch couldn’t hurt imo.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 299d
Then don't celebrate war criminals, genocide, etc.
People on the right hate regular people for shitty reasons. That's not what's happening here.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 299d
Where is the celebration?
I said I don’t want to be like those on those the Right for their callousness.
I’m not saying you can’t hate the guy, I just don’t think it’s worth nitpicking a person, who is a politician, showing kindness after someone has died.
Cruxifux@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 300d
Yeah I’m sure all the people whos families died as a direct result of Cheney are glad American politicians are being so nice to him after he died to save his families feelings.
It cost her absolutely nothing to just stay silent, friend.
greenskye@lemmy.zip · 17 pts · 301d
This isn't building bridges though. No Republican is going to be moved or softened by this statement. It's going to actively alienate the people who are supposed to like you though. The best move is to simply say nothing at all.
All this bullshit tells me is that those in power are still seeing this as nothing but business, like what we're going through is simply a contract negotiation. No hard feelings. That they can watch their colleagues cause the death and misery of thousands and then leave that at the door and go grab a drink with that person.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 300d
It may or may not be building some bridges, I can’t say you’re wrong because there is a lot of truth in what you are saying, unfortunately.
The fact that politics is treated as a team sport by the Right, where this type of message of caring from Harris and other Democrats will just go to fade into the void, is part of the problem with the media and political sphere we have allowed to fester.
I feel that social media has opened the door to too much open hostility to acts of kindness. Strategizing around a best move politically rather than having an open heart, even to people that may hate you.
I think having an open heart means treating your interactions with others like it isn’t just business. I’m sure many politicians do have issues with the selfish and self-centered actions of one’s peers. I don’t think that necessarily reflects on the way people show kindness to one another when they experience a personal hardship or how they interact with their families. Maybe it’s Democrats trying to chip at the cold exterior with some of the Republicans; I personally don’t think politics will always be like they currently are where media plays up the divide.
greenskye@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 300d
It was Harris' choice to post this publicly for people to react to. If it was simply about being kind then it could've been a private communication to the Cheney family directly.
It was performative at its core and woefully out of touch as well.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 300d
And people have agency for how they react as well. Being open about it can be seen as saying that it’s okay to show care for one another in times of personal tragedy. He was someone that Harris knew personally as well.
I’d say it’s pushing against-the-grain rather than out of touch. There is so much need out to play sides about every aspect of life. Some things don’t need to be about scoring points.
Almacca@aussie.zone · 8 pts · 301d
What leadership role is she in right now? I thought she was on a book selling tour.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 301d
I’m speaking to her actions, not her current role in public services. There’s something very apparent that is missing in government today and that thing is leadership.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 299d
Murder and war crimes are only "differences of opinion" among the worst criminals.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 299d
Those aren’t the views that were just “differences of opinion” that I was talking about. I was talking about what she said.
0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 300d
Christians really love to preach how moral they are by praising pedophiles, racists and racists, don't they?
Fuck you respect and values. Respect is earned and values are knowing how to embrace the good and distancing yourself from the bad. Not your Hollywood version of it.
frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 300d
Ok.
Manjushri@piefed.social · 98 pts · 301d
Allow me to modify an old saying:
You can't say anything nice about Dick Cheney without lying so just shut up.
FinalRemix@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 301d
The nice thing is that he can't do any more harm now.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 29 pts · 301d
So Abe Lincoln was going to put Simon Cameron in his cabinet. Cameron was kind of a piece of shit, and so Thaddeus Stevens when he heard this got alarmed. When questioned about if he was really saying that Cameron would steal, Thaddeus Stevens thought for a minute and said, well, "I don't think he would steal a red-hot stove."
So the story got around because it is funny. Abe Lincoln in particular thought it was one of the funniest things he ever heard (also while he made Cameron Secretary of War) and told many people. So eventually of course it got back to Cameron. Cameron was pissed, and angrily demanded that Stevens take back the slur on his character.
So Thaddeus Stevens after Cameron had yelled at him said, "Well, he is very mad, and he made me promise to retract. I will now do so. I believe I told you he would not steal a red-hot stove. I now take that back."
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 300d
Who says that's not her true opinion?
She did very openly get close to the Cheney familiy during her presidential campaign, so she might very well think that according to her own values he had done nothing wrong.
It seems to me that one of the core problems of the Democrat Party leadership which has led to their candidate being defeated once again by none other than Donald "Sex Offender" Trump, is exactly that their values are pretty much compatible with Cheney's.
Jordan117@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 301d
He was one of the few high-profile Republicans willing to stand by his condemnation of Trump after January 6th, even when the party came crawling back and that stance became a huge liability for him and his daughter. I can respect that.
snooggums@piefed.world · 15 pts · 301d
Not doing one out 1000 horrible things is not worthy of respect.
In fact, opposing it fits Cheney's character because his entire evil persona was based on getting everyone else to do his evil bidding within the working government. Someone trying to overthrow a system he manipulated was a personal attack by Trump. Cheney didn't oppose it out of his love for America or anything, he opposed it because it undermined his life's work and he took it personally.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 300d
Well it might have been two things.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 300d
Yeah. And Hitler liked his dog. Definitely peoples-is-peoples kind of things but if i was a global political figure i might err on the side of quiet for some sentiments.
Trump’s gonna bite it one of these days and when he does, any self-conscious politician who hopes to win office with a progressive bent better watch their fuckin p’s and q’s.
Democrats are mostly reasonable, and responsible, but as in the last forty years, there’s an opportunity to destroy fascists (like Cheney) and the more they ignore it the more they lose. It’s a fine line, to be sure, between “responsible tomorrow / better jobs” and “BLOOOOOOOD!!!”. But they need to have thought that through again because their consultants are old and broken.
Justice and Politics need to sort their shit out yesterday.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 6 pts · 300d
Hitler didn't actually like his dog. Or... it's complicated. He threatened to kill Blondi because someone else played with her, he would beat all his dogs or hit them with a riding whip when they were disobedient (he said "it was necessary"), and when he decided to kill himself with cyanide, he told the doctor to test the cyanide first on Blondi. She died.
He did seem like he emotionally enjoyed being with his dogs, but he was too much of a psychopath to really have a normal human-to-dog relationship with them or to give them actual affection in return. The whole thing of him being a dog lover was mostly Nazi propaganda.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 300d
Yeah okay well he was gakked to the gills for a few years there so yknow. But he killed himself . . . they say . . . right afterwards so i like to think he thought he was taking his dog with him. Although yeah a complete nutter and history’s greatest monster.
(Recent history’s greatest monster? Ok nerds, I hear you shifting uncomfortably, wanting to tell everyone about Stalin, Pol Pot, Napoleon etc etc. Just relax. )
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 98 pts · 300d
All you had to do was say nothing, Kamala.
Why do liberals not realize that the right will NEVER vote for them no matter how much they pander, and everyone else hates them because they have no moral or ethical compass.
Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 300d
Because they want bribes.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 299d
Because liberals are right-wing.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 299d
58008@lemmy.world · 82 pts · 300d
She's still playing that "let's meet in the middle" charade that didn't do shit for her during her campaign?
aesthelete@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 300d
A true believer
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com · 15 pts · 300d
Right when seeing a smashing victory by a progressive candidate too. Truly unaccountable
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 64 pts · 301d
If you're saying "Kamala Harris y'all" in 2025 and this response surprises you, then you need to seriously get your shit sorted out. She made it plain who she was last year. It's why she didn't get elected.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · -21 pts · 301d
Cool. Hows everything going.
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 300d
Pretty shit, could have been better if the democrats ran an electable candidate in a campaign that actually challenged the horrible status quo.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 300d
Still using First Past The Post voting in a majority of states. Almost like the democrats and Republicans like the hostage situation they've created together.
::: spoiler Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
STAR voting
Alternative vote
Ranked Choice voting
Range Voting
Single Transferable Vote
Mixed Member Proportional representation :::
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · -28 pts · 301d
Not really dude lol
I mean yes it's accurate that if she had been Bernie Sanders or said popular things she would probably have won. But also, the exclusive and passionate focus on how much the left was officially ordered to hate her for a variety of reasons, and not pay any attention to what an objective catastrophe Trump would be in such a huge variety of ways, is pretty fuckin' significant.
If your child decides to go high dive into an empty swimming pool instead of go to the museum, then sure, maybe the museum's not age appropriate or it features some colonialism. That could have made a difference. Yes. But, also, there are clearly more fundamental things that are wrong.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 34 pts · 300d
Who ordered that? How was that order communicated?
If the left is that easy to order around, why didn't the Democrats just order them to vote for her?
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 300d
“Harris supports genocide so you shouldn’t vote” was like shooting fish in a barrel. That it folded perfectly into russia’s goals for the election is pure coincidence.
Democrats suck at messaging. See Democratic consultants for more information.
0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 300d
Did Russia ask Kamala to support genocide?
Just waving every failure in US politics as a Russian master-stroke plot is really getting old. You have the largest surveillance tech in the whole wide world, show proof or GTFO with your conspiracies.
Obligatory Fuck Russia and Putin.
Slava Ukraini!
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 299d
You didn't answer the question
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · -18 pts · 300d
So here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about:
If you had to pick one most damning issue that was the place where she made it plain who she was last year, that lost her support, what would it be? What do you think the biggest one was, if you had to pick one?
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 300d
How is that a perfect example? Are you going to answer my questions?
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · -15 pts · 300d
Happy to. You first though. If you had to pick the biggest most damning issue where she made it plain who she was, what would it be?
hotdogcharmer@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 300d
The other commenter asked first.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · -14 pts · 300d
They sure did. Like I said, I'd be happy to answer their question, I just want to see the answer to my question first.
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net · 15 pts · 300d
Speaking as someone who's not American, I lost hope for her campaign when she made a show of getting endorsements from some pretty reprehensible Republicans (including but not limited to Dick Cheney).
Sciaphobia@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 300d
Doesn't really look like you were happy to when you refused to do it.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · -3 pts · 300d
I really would be happy to. I need them to answer my question first, though, in order to make the point that I want to make. Instead they evaporated, which means I don't owe them continuation of the conversation with the blank void they've left in their absence.
PyroNeurosis@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 300d
I'd say her attitude towards the Palestinian protesters at her rally in Detroit was the last straw for me. It was a misstep that may have been due to pressures of running a rushed campaign and the stress of detractors at every stop, but to carry on and at no point express common goals with the protesters showed her hand well enough for me.
resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 300d
More “blame progressives” BS.
If corpo dems spent a fraction of the energy they waste attacking progressives on fighting republicans instead we wouldn’t be in this situation.
expr@programming.dev · 6 pts · 300d
She has always been pretty shit. That much is indisputable.
Voting for her was still the correct thing to do (and what I did), because the degree of Trump's fascism and corruption is much greater and more dangerous.
But it's incredibly naive to think this behavior of hers is in any way new. It's exactly who she's always been.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 299d
Yes the bar was fucking low and the dems still failed (generously assuming they wanted to win).
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 299d
How BlueMAGA Democrats see the people they want to vote for them.
Poayjay@lemmy.world · 61 pts · 301d
Go away Kamala
drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 59 pts · 300d
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 300d
I like your stuff
drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 300d
Just so you know I didn't draw this, its a fairly popular meme image.
fodor@lemmy.zip · 55 pts · 300d
It's fascinating to see her keep saying things that reveal the fatal flaw in her campaign. It's not that she listened to her advisors back then, although they did give her bad advice. Rather, she's lacking values that resonate with the majority of the American people. We all know that the old man was a terrible human being, and yeah, it is probably sad for his family that he passed away, but most of us would simply not say his name again. He earned no respect as a public figure, and we can treat ourselves with dignity by not bringing him up ever again.
Of course you also might want a trash talk him, because of all the horrible things he did, and that's okay too. I think either approach is fine, but the one approach that's not fine is whitewashing all the horrible things he did in his life.
Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 301d
Oppopity@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 301d
Turns out the lesser evil was evil. Who woulda thunk.
Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 300d
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 300d
I didn't "do nothing over some ideal". I voted for Jill Stein over some ideal. If more people had done that, we wouldn't be in the current shitshow.
Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 300d
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 300d
She never was a fantastic choice, and the proof for that is that Trump is president. Had she been a fantastic choice, people would have voted for her. But sure, keep blaming all the voters for the Democrat inability to place someone remotely humane and electable instead of Ms. "We love Cheney and the US needs to have the most lethal armed forces in the world".
It's crazy to me that, after the resounding victory by a progressive that we've seen two days ago, you keep blaming the voters. As soon as someone remotely progressive appeared in an election, people went to vote for him in droves. Mamdani is a literal Muslim millennial, hardly the most appreciated demographic in the USA, and yet he smashed the opponents despite constant smear campaigns. Maybe there's a lesson or two you could learn from that?
Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 300d
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 45 pts · 301d
How does this surprise you? Kamala is a Depublican. That is basically just a Republican that wears blue and has 1-2 liberal thoughts in their head.
Still big business, still preaches about "reaching across the table" (to give big biz a handy j).
Biden was just as bad if not worse ... that MFer had the house and senate 21-23. Where is Medicare for all? Federal minimum wage? Women's reproductive right protections? Oh ... well that is weird.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 34 pts · 301d
Biden raised corporate tax by about a trillion dollars and spent it all on climate change and reducing income inequality by actually going to bat for the poorest people in this country, and y'all still spent all this time shitting on him. I get it. We needed a lot more. But this whole thing "Biden was a monster, I don't even know any good thing he did" is mostly just a creation of our media not really caring about poor people or vital issues (enough to see any of that as significant) any more than Trump does. He was way ahead of the curve in the blighted landscape of corruption and lies that is American governance.
mlg@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 300d
Biden threw a couple billion dollars of that climate change money to GM to develop an EV car, which anyone working in GM or even living in Michigan will tell you is not gonna happen lmao. All while banning foreign Chinese EVs from competing because of "safety" and "market protections".
Biden was a downgrade from Obama, and people already called Obama a coconut for his rather insane war crime history and ICE enforcement.
Stop glazing that geriatric fool's failure to permanently dispose of Trump. He cheated you all out of a fair primary and spent his time in office throwing pennies worth of improvements in the aftermath of Trump's first term.
Even ignoring Kamala's horrendous campaign, he is the primary reason why Trump is currently in office again.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · -4 pts · 300d
This is sort of a standard talking point to use to attack the IRA's climate actions. It is true, and it sounds bad, and so by telling up this little anecdote about one particular thing it did, you can spin up a picture that aligns with how you want people to see the whole of the act, without asking the question, how big a percent of the whole was that "couple billion dollars", and how effective was the rest of it?
To me, the most important thing is, "What will this do to emissions?" Everything else is bullshit. If it reduces the amount by which we're killing the planet, I don't care if some money goes to GM or whatever else.
Here's the impact on emissions:
https://www.princeton.edu/news/2023/07/12/new-study-evaluates-climate-impact-ira
"The research teams found that the IRA will dramatically cut U.S carbon emissions, with economy-wide emissions reductions between 43 and 48% below 2005 levels by 2035, but not enough to reach 50% below peak levels by 2030, as the U.S. has pledged. The results were published in the journal Science on June 29.
“'IRA doubles the pace of reductions but should have tripled it to hit our 2030 climate goals and get on the path to net-zero by 2050,' Jenkins says."
It's the first time in US history that anyone's ever done something that significant. Is it enough? Fuck no. Does it include a bunch of gifts to huge corporations? I'm sure it does. It is worth remembering that all that money came from the corporations in the first place, in the form of increased taxes, so it's not as much of a grift as normal DC nonsense is. But it's definitely not a fake, although it's easy to grab individual parts of it that make it sound like it is and spin them up and poo poo the whole thing.
Y'all don't remember what it was like before the ACA. Also, I know two people personally who were only not deported because of Obama's immigration reforms. One is here (for now) on DACA, and one was actually caught right before 2009 and was fighting his deportation when Obama came in, and Obama's reforms slowed down the process enough that long story short he was able to stay in the country.
I'm sure people were calling Obama a coconut. You also don't remember Clinton. For anyone who is paying attention, the arc Clinton -> Obama -> Biden is very obviously leftward. But, most people in the US don't really look at politics in terms of paying attention, it's all just confident assertion and little turns of phrase like "coconut" and then you sit back all proud of yourselves.
When was the last time Obama raised corporate tax by a trillion dollars?
krashmo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 300d
Green energy sure, but what are you referring to when you say reducing income inequality?
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 8 pts · 300d
Part of the IRA was a huge investment in domestic manufacturing and in strengthening government support for unions. It resulted in a big increase in working-class wages even when correcting for punishing Covid inflation that wasn't Biden fault.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americans-wages-are-higher-than-they-have-ever-been-and-employment-is-near-its-all-time-high/
https://thehill.com/business/4045941-how-bidens-big-investments-spurred-a-factory-boom/
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 301d
Things become law with a simple majority and overnight now?
Neat.
Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 301d
No now they become law via executive disorder
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 301d
"🎵I'm an executive order🎵, and I pretty much just happen."
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 301d
They certainly don't become law when the political will isn't there.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 301d
Is there a metric for that, like a vote count? Because that’s pretty much “vibes” otherwise right?
Wilco@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 301d
How many years was that?
Almacca@aussie.zone · -1 pts · 301d
Seems to be.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 301d
He was the most vocal supporter of the state engaging in torture. Firstly it's an evil thing to do. But even if you don't care about that, as an American the 8th amendment prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, this is why they had to do it outside US soil. And if you don't love America or the rule of law either, then you should know that the experts agree it doesn't fucking help. Torture doesn't get you good information, it can be used as a population control technique, but it's a risky one that can really backfire, ask Ghaddafi.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 300d
Gaddafi got murdered because NATO promoted radical militias and bombed Libya, though.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 299d
Yeah they were on a roll until the imperial brainwashing kicked in at the end.
Smeagol666@crazypeople.online · 38 pts · 300d
"It's one big club, and you ain't in it." - G. Carlin
GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 300d
It's literally just a boiler plate acknowledging a current situation post.
Fucking hell you guys.
unabart@sh.itjust.works · 32 pts · 300d
She’s totally going to make another run at it. Still playing both sides.
toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 300d
nah, she's done. any bluster from her henceforth is just gonna be promotion for her books and speeches.
i'm almost grateful that she ran in lieu of joe, because it finally exposed just how much of an empty shell the party has become.
you can't fight oligarchy if your dick is in the sauce.
A7thStone@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 300d
If this is gonna be that kind of party, I’m gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes.
toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 300d
please butter it up first. we've had too many dry dicks in the salad already
trublu@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 300d
She will definitely be in the primary, assuming there is one (I just doubt that establishment Dems would dare keep her out), but my hope is that she will get squashed pretty quickly.
toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 300d
i don't think she'll do that, and i base my assumption solely upon the fact that she hasn't done a fucking notable thing since losing.
Come to think of it, NOBODY is doing anything.. makes you wonder if the clowns really represent you.
Objection@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 300d
I can't wait to see her bomb out even harder than she did in 2020, when she dropped out without getting a single vote.
Simulation6@sopuli.xyz · 32 pts · 300d
I was always taught never to say anything about the dead unless it’s good. He’s dead. Good!
Moms Mabley
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 30 pts · 300d
Crazy how the actual leftists keep being right about everything
Fedizen@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 300d
The "actual" leftists with their official ID card next to the "true scotsman" card.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 6 pts · 300d
Because Hitler was a leftist if he says he was.
ReiRose@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 300d
Tattooed on the back of the neck
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 300d
Anarchist tats are for real. Leftist infighting, also for real. Lot of people with takes.
SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one · -12 pts · 300d
'Actual'. Lol
Farcial shitbags that do nothing but bitch and moan aren't leftists. They're crybabies with too much time to whinge online.
fodor@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 300d
Like you?
TheFonz@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 299d
Haha just spend five minutes on Lemmy. People here be writing essays and bitching 24/7. Cmon now, let's be real. It's not like lefties are doing much to build coalitions and power in the states. Other places, yes.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 299d
So, like you.
TheFonz@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 298d
I'm not the one going out of my way ostrasizing every liberal and bitching 24/7 about capitalism. It's the only thing I see on Lemmy. Don't tell me it's not true.
Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 300d
And they wonder why they lost??
Praising a monster with this bullshit does not speak compassion, it speaks weakness.
It's funny how she unwittingly sealed her own fate, and she doesn't know it.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 300d
Weakness requires far too much benefit of the doubt. It's complicity.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 301d
niktemadur@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 300d
Polite words after someone kicks the bucket, whoever they may be, is politics, understandable.
That said, it does seem like she went out of her way to lay it on thick, didn't she? With a nasty synthetic aftertaste to it. She chose her words carefully and it looks like her kissing the boot of a fucking goddamned sick soulless monster.
fodor@lemmy.zip · 27 pts · 300d
I think polite words are fine, but when she started praising him, that was simply inappropriate. Either she actually believes what she said or she was lying about the praise. Offering condolences to the family alone would have sufficed.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 300d
She's basically an '80s republican so I'd say the praise was genuine. The fact that we were forced to choose between her and the orange fascist wasn't really a choice. It was literally the lesser of two evils and a lot of people decided not to choose because of it. Which is why we are here.
As much blane as republicans have for how fucked up things are right now, democrats share a good portion of the blame for shoving this tool down our throats.
And before you all start in with the "if only you had bothered to vote". I fucking did vote. It didn't end up mattering.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 300d
The “Not Voters” were such an insignificantly small portion of voters (ie, people who usually vote but abstained or voted 3rd party in 2024) that even if every one of them voted for Kamala, she still would have lost. Her failure was instead due to the Democrats fundamental refusal to see that the status quo does not work for regular people.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com · 15 pts · 300d
What did US politicians say when Gaddafi was murdered? Honest question
Edit: I looked up what Obama had to say when Gaddafi was murdered:
"Today, the government of Libya announced the death of Muammar Qaddafi. This marks the end of a long and painful chapter for the people of Libya, who now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny in a new and democratic Libya.
For four decades, the Qaddafi regime ruled the Libyan people with an iron fist. Basic human rights were denied. Innocent civilians were detained, beaten and killed. And Libya’s wealth was squandered. The enormous potential of the Libyan people was held back, and terror was used as a political weapon"
Not so "just politics" back then huh?
eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 299d
mikenurre@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 301d
Graham Platner said what Democrats should be saying- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/48HF6PyZaJM
lettruthout@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 301d
Yes! And this should be the top comment here!
turdcollector69@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 299d
Kamala is and has always been a shit tier candidate.
Can we finally admit that her entire campaign amounted to gaslighting people into thinking she's remotely leftist?
tomiant@piefed.social · 22 pts · 301d
Sometimes, silence is best.
mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de · 21 pts · 301d
Noooo but muh purity test! We need to take what we can get! The DNC should have banned Mamdani from running so that Kamala could run in New York instead and if you think that's a bad idea that's just because you let your delusional perfect fantasies be the enemy of
the good, well,the okay, er... the...ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 301d
it’s not a “purity test”.
i wish she wouldn’t have been cheated when she won the presidency, but she’s a terrible person and terrible representative.
Dick Cheney led us into a multi-year war in Iraq based entirely on lies and made millions of dollars from it… he’s responsible for thousands of murders, ruining millions of lives, and damaging billions of lives.
“muh purity test” it’s not… it’s the “don’t praise war criminals” test
…. or maybe YOU have the WMD’s in your backyard?
mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de · 23 pts · 301d
Yeah rereading my comment, I see what's confusing about it - I'm condemning the people who condemn purity tests. I support the purity tests (aka having standards for our representatives).
slothrop@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 301d
lemmy pretty much requires '/s' for some reason.
/s ?
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 301d
So . . it doesn’t?
slothrop@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 301d
erm... /s
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 301d
Ohhhhh. Gotcha.
. . . /s? Wait. No. s.
Aiigh!.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 300d
Is your sarcasm tag sarcastic?
Almacca@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 300d
"Oh yeah! I'm being really sarcastic!"
mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 300d
ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 301d
here i go preaching to the choir again.
my bad, i missed the sarcasm….
purity testing is definitely a tactic of misinformation, but obviously Harris is dirty af….
Almacca@aussie.zone · 7 pts · 301d
Do the downvoters not pick up on the very obvious sarcasm here?
snooggums@piefed.world · 5 pts · 301d
Poe's Law is thing.
Took me reading it a few times before I was confident it was sarcasm.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 300d
Or they're cheney-supporting centrists who did pick up on the sarcasm.
Almacca@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 300d
There's twelve of them?! (at time of commenting) Holy shit! That's too many!
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 300d
Just go back to the wine, Kamala, no one cares.
Or uh, I dunno, prosecute some criminal ICE agents or something?
echodot@feddit.uk · 19 pts · 300d
That's standard politician that is.
Something in the world happens that does not involve them, or in any way require a comment from them.
Them: "oh I got to make a non statement about this".
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 300d
Wish we could have someone who's real.
HalfSalesman@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 300d
No one is real unless they're so incredibly impulsive that they're in jail.
BackgrndNoize@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 301d
This is why even democrats didn't want to vote for you Kamla, you need to do better than just being a corporate phony
mavu@discuss.tchncs.de · 17 pts · 300d
I think that was well crafted.
I'm sure there is more in there that i missed, but this is basically a "good riddance, finally" in terms that can be understood as polite.
hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 16 pts · 299d
Politicians need to learn to not comment.
Kamala wasn't involved in national politics at the same time as cheney. When cheney was last in office, Kamala was the district attorney of SF, an local office that only deals with the laws of California. No plausible working relationship between the two. They were not even interacting with the same laws. They worked in entirely different levels of government. There is no need for any statement.
Regardless of politics, any statement like this will sound disingenuous. If she knows Lynne, Liz, Mary, and the entire family well enough to have them in her thoughts, she could tell them directly. Calling someone to wish them the best in a hard time is a commendable act. Making a public statement telling other people that you care about someone else is just weird.
PissingIntoTheWind@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 299d
He and his daughter put their necks on the line to support her. So I can only expect something like this.
Tm12@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 301d
GameWar criminal recognizegamewar criminal.Fedizen@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 300d
This is what trying to meet in the middle with people who will never, ever vote for you looks like: you just alienate people who would normally vote for you by sounding like a freaking moron space alien.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 14 pts · 300d
couldve won if you wernt shilling for israel and OLD-GUARD REPUBLICANS. albiet, thier was significant voter machine riggins.
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 300d
Not surprising, her campaign was awful and as soon as she lost she was nowhere to be seen.
0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 300d
"Why don't we win?? We're not celebrating ruthless, vile, racists human beings like the other party"
Narrator: But alas, they were. It's still a mystery why progressive people despise them so much, they choose to not to vote.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 0 pts · 299d
You think its an own blaming progressives for the loss? No progressives are struggling to find reasons to vote dems in that elections.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 300d
Ding dong the bastard is dead. He is probably responsible for more innocents dead than anyone else who has died this year.
The fact that we have to play nice when AOTUS is wiping his ass with the constitution and othering Americans for funsies is pretty ridiculous.
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 300d
Liberalism supports the empire and all of its crimes abroad. What did you really expect?
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 300d
Ok, it's not polite to pull a Donald (he would 100% write posts filled with joy if Biden dies before him), but silence it's an option...
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 11 pts · 300d
Sometimes less is more.
Soulg@ani.social · 6 pts · 300d
I'm more than okay with well wishes to his family but the dude was a demon and I'm glad he's dead
Doorbook@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 300d
His family continue his path. His daughter Liz was running a US support covert operations to funnel money to group in foreign countries under the name of development.
These people business and connections are built on the killing and murdering of innocent people.
Soulg@ani.social · 2 pts · 300d
To me, it's not about whether I like any of them and more the humanity in losing a father. I'm not demanding everyone mention them and say they're sorry, but I'm not mad when people do give condolences as long as they also say the kind of things graham platner said along with it
zbyte64@awful.systems · 11 pts · 299d
Stuff like this reminds me why they lose to fascists. When they like to say the proto-fascists are practicing politics correctly it really waters down their message and what is at stake.
CaptainBlinky@lemmy.myserv.one · 10 pts · 300d
Well at the very least, she lost the presidency and will probably never win it.
anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 300d
You cant condemn a war criminal without implicating the last 20 years of US foreign intervention he started.
Bluewing@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 300d
Meh, boiler plate "Thoughts and Prayers". It's as meaningless as a campaign promise.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 299d
Just boilerplate war criminal glazing
HalfSalesman@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 300d
Yeah, we're definitely better off with her not being president. Much happier with what we got instead.
Quexotic@infosec.pub · 8 pts · 299d
...and she's going to try to run in 28?
She'll have better chances running as a republican at this point.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 300d
This shit is how she lost to the fascist orangutan.
damnedfurry@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 300d
She'd already clinched her loss before she started chumming up to Cheneys, I think.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 300d
Nah, her campaign page was amazing: tax the rich, expand healthcare, promote overturning citizens united, bodily autonomy, the works.
She lost because nobody believed a single word of it when she hung out with the worst campaign team imaginable for those stances, participating in advertisements with fucking eagles and open prairies.
drspawndisaster@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 300d
Soulless person.
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 301d
Another bitch that only got my vote because of the shit sandwich we had to eat.
Adderbox76@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 300d
It's called tact. Adults generally have it.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 5 pts · 299d
What the actual fuck.
Fucking disgraceful.
abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 299d
Cheney was an absolute cunt, but he had one saving grace: he supported gay marriage.
resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 300d
Both sides.
UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 300d
Sometimes people feel a emotional attachment to the people they worked close with 😉.
ronl2k@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 300d
According to Google, "Kamala Harris and Dick Cheney never worked together in the same administration or government body. Their careers in public service largely occurred in different eras and levels of government."
AWistfulNihilist@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 299d
You mean the AI Google uses so you don't have to do any work reading the sources?
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 299d
Harris and Cheney worked in different levels of government? Pretty sure they held the exact same position.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com · 4 pts · 300d
Lack of link to (archived) source (per rule 4) creates a usability issue: we can't quote the text without pointless bullshit like retyping it or OCR. :::spoiler Other issues when image lacks text alternative such as link
Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images. ::: A link to a text-based source is useful.
Edit: thanks! 👍
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 4 pts · 300d
Sounds good. I just edited to add a link to the source.
gibmiser@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 301d
Lol what.
snooggums@piefed.world · 20 pts · 301d
This is totally in line with her courting Liz Cheney while torpedoing her presidential campaign.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 301d
It's litteral political madness.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 300d
Boo
Tudsamfa@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 300d
As someone who has no stakes in this, is this what people meant when they described her as "Obama 2.0"?
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 300d
I've never heard her called that tbh. Obama was actually a pretty good politician who got the public to believe things could actually change for the better. They didn't and he didn't actually do that but he made people believe in it in a way Harris never did.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 299d
Always has been.
laranis@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 300d
They. Are. All. The. Same.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 300d
She accepted his endorsement. She made it clear who she was.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 300d
Its just a formulaic posting to display knowledge of the death, not that she feels that way. Its what politicians do
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 13 pts · 300d
It's what shitty politicians do.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com · 10 pts · 300d
You are lying. Obama on Gaddafi's murder:
"Today, the government of Libya announced the death of Muammar Qaddafi. This marks the end of a long and painful chapter for the people of Libya, who now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny in a new and democratic Libya.
For four decades, the Qaddafi regime ruled the Libyan people with an iron fist. Basic human rights were denied. Innocent civilians were detained, beaten and killed. And Libya’s wealth was squandered. The enormous potential of the Libyan people was held back, and terror was used as a political weapon."
Kamala is not being formulaic, it's a willful endorsement of the war criminal that Cheney was.
Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 300d
If it's true, it shows how shallow and meaningless her words are.
Doorbook@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 300d
It is not it formualic. It is a total support for his family which she has personal relationship with.
The fact she mentioned his family by name indicates that.
It seems she is part of the Clinton group and that's the group who pushed her up the ladder so it is not surprising.
Nomad@infosec.pub · 0 pts · 300d
When s major political person dies lots of people feel lost and look for someone new to look to. This is just an attempt to scoop up lost souls.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 8 pts · 300d
People were looking to Cheney? And we want to cater to these people?
0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 300d
If you hadn't noticed, yankistanis love their war criminals. They even have laws to defend them.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 300d
I've noticed. I have to live in this shithole of a country.
Nomad@infosec.pub · -1 pts · 300d
More than enough sadly, as evident by his stellar political career. We don't cater to people, every politicians jobb is to cater to as many of the people as possible. They have votes. DoiI take your meaning correctly that we should ignore political minorities (which they are not) because you deem them worthless (which their votes certainly are not)? I always thought that's more of a fascist view of things. :p
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 300d
Yeah, we should exclude them from anything and everything we can until they stop being bigoted pieces of shit and supporting war criminals. If we need to compromise with people like that to win an election this country is lost.
Nomad@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 300d
I agree. But the lack of compromise is what got us in this situation in the first place. Democracy is about compromise, because if you don't need to compromise one of both extremes takes over there country and that does not end good for either side really. Look at the us while the "other side" wins. Can you see all the winning they are doing? Not pleasant for anyone, is it?
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 300d
Okay, so which minorities don't deserve rights and which foreign kids should we let get blown to hell?
Nomad@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 300d
Exactly. Ask the populous, they decide. Nobody is above democracy or the law. Nobody gets to murder the Muslims or Jews. Nobody gets to murder trans people etc. Because everybody agrees murdering humans is bad.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 300d
You should watch the news sometime because your understanding of what people believe is wildly misaligned with reality.
stinky@redlemmy.com · 0 pts · 299d
This is the respectful way to honor someone's passing.
Rooty@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 300d
A lot of Dick worshiping from US politicians right now
Helix8o8@lemy.lol · 0 pts · 300d
Ya a big + to the Trump admin is him rounding up all the old guard federal dems and tossing them in prison. What they get for co-opting the left in Hamburgerland.
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 299d
I remember when sending condolences when one of your political opponents died was viewed as graceful and even expected. Now it’s a weakness? Or is it that the black woman needs to be criticized for everything she does?
nucleative@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 300d
This is a wild thread. Kamala understands decorum and professionalism.
Politics without is just a fuckin' schoolyard fistfight, and we've had too much of that.
Democracy is about being able to have differences in opinion but still be neighbors.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 22 pts · 300d
The professional and appropriate response was to say nothing, not blow smoke up people's ass.
Harris is just part of the same political machine as all the other old men.
Dragonstaff@leminal.space · 13 pts · 300d
We are in a fist fight and Democrats want to get our faces kicked in with decorum and professionalism.
War crimes and murder are business as usual in the US. The sad thing is that he died without seeing the inside of a cell.
Objection@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 300d
No, we haven't actually. What we've had too much of is the bullies pushing around the brown kid because he looks different (which in this analogy of course refers to the mass slaughter of civilians), with one of the two bullies occasionally showing some sign of reluctance or concern that they might get in trouble for it, and then caving and appeasing the other bully when they make fun of them for it.
What "fistfights" are you even talking about? When have the democrats ever actually (metaphorically) thrown hands, or not bent over backwards to appease the republicans, even to the point of going after minorities? The shutdown is the first time I can remember in the past 20 years that they actually showed an ounce of spine.
I would love to start seeing some political fistfights instead of having this "harmony" or "cooperation" between the two bullies.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 300d
I don’t want to be neighbors with war criminals. The reason we are where we are today is because of collaborators like Harris white-washing the crimes of terrorists like Cheney.
madjo@feddit.nl · 7 pts · 300d
all she had to say was "condolences to the family"... instead of lifting him up like he was some sort of good thing for society. He was a war criminal. Should've been tried in The Hague and should've rotted in jail.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 299d
Most privileged lib take.
nucleative@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 299d
No, it's an educated take. Anything else is probably not an environment you want to live in unless you find yourself inside the privilege party.
Humans will always have vast differences in opinion, that's the whole point of the USA.
zbyte64@awful.systems · 3 pts · 299d
Cheney being a war criminal isn't a matter of opinion. Same goes for human rights.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 299d
I hope one day you get to be on the receiving end of some of the "differences of opinion" Cheney held. (Not really, no one deserves the things he did to millions of people)
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 299d
Hmm yes. Would you like me to post what she said when Sinwar died?
notsosure@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 299d
Weird you get downvoted. All the negative commentators here are part of the problem.
MaybeNaught@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 299d
Could be lip service; like a superficial gesture to retain some basic standing in the political sphere. Idk why this should be a big deal to anyone.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · -4 pts · 300d
What the hell is wrong with sending condolences to a colleagues family? Looks like the bots won if people are posting heinous bullshit like this and getting all stirred up. Well done little bots!
Objection@lemmy.ml · 28 pts · 300d
"I am saddened to learn of the passing of former fuhrer Adolph Hitler.
Herr Hitler was a devoted public servant, from the halls of the Reichstag to many positions of leadership in many countries across Europe. His passing marks the loss of a figure who, with a strong sense of dedication, gave so much of his life to the country that he loved."
But yeah I guess you're right, there's nothing wrong with sending condolences to a colleague's family, the thing that's wrong is that she considered Cheney a colleague in the first place.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 300d
Seriously! Who the hell is colleagues with war criminals?
SomethingBurger@jlai.lu · 16 pts · 300d
When Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of the French Nazi party, died, the presidency made a press release which was essentially "condolences to the family, history will be his only judge". No need to praise him.
GhostOfHoxha@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 300d
Weird thing for you to post verbatim but at least you’re honest
Hikermick@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 300d
She showed class?
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 299d
Praising war criminals is the opposite of class
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · -4 pts · 301d
I prefer her compassion for a political rival to this shit:
Almacca@aussie.zone · 19 pts · 301d
No-one would have minded if she'd said nothing.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 300d
I assume that she had to say something because she's friends with Liz Cheney. Not a good look, though, and she should really ask herself how she got here.
Almacca@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 300d
My feeling is that you do that shit in private with friends.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 301d
I mean....the second is more truthful. I don't think having compassion for a horrible person is a good thing. The guy is largely responsible for the deaths of over a million people.
notsosure@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 299d
It should be normal to pay tribute to the dead, even if you didn’t agree with them when they were alive. If we stop doing that, we all lose.
Veedem@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 301d
I’m probably the minority here, but I appreciate the decorum. It lowers the temperature of the conversation without outright endorsing what he did.
For me, the time to be angry was when it was happening.
Ferrous@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 301d
Decorum is a massive understatement. Democrats have a civility fetish. During a fascist descent, decorum and civility do nothing other than preserving the status quo. They are obsessed with procedure and elevate it almost to a godlike status. It's also why theyve been losing so hard in recent years. Republicans have no problem employing rhetoric and breaking procedure. Democrats are consistently bringing knives to gun fights.
During a fascist descent, civility = disarmament.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 9 pts · 301d
Democrats are consistently bringing tea and cupcakes to gun fights.
Pritzger and Mamdani are winning with the public, and hopefully more candidates will see and follow in their footsteps. They are at least bringing knives and planning to do their level best. But how Chuck Schumer saw Pelosi's husband get his skull fractured with a hammer and still came out saying "I think we can work out a compromise for the good of the country" and similar bullshit is baffling to me.
Almacca@aussie.zone · 15 pts · 301d
She could have expressed sympathy for the family without whitewashing his 'accomplishments'.
QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 301d
Liz also campaigned on Harris’ behalf. It is possible they ate cordial and this is just her saying something nice about a friend’s dad after he passed.
Veedem@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 301d
I forgot about that. Good point.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 2 pts · 301d
Yeah, I get that. But at the same time, the whole reason I actually kind of like Liz Cheney is that as far as I can tell she has some integrity unlike her father.
She surely knows her dad's a piece of shit. It's almost more cruel to his memory to specifically call attention to everything he did in public political life so that people can laugh at you for lying about it in this over-the-top way. Just say he will be missed and your thoughts are with his family and move the fuck on.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 300d
Kamala saying that he was a great public servant is a spit in the face to the millions of people whose lives were lost and ruined by Dick Cheney's ghoulish and murderous legacy. No civility with war criminals.
Asafum@feddit.nl · -9 pts · 301d
Politics are just a different version of adult highschool drama... It's so fucking aggravating.
There's no win.
She say nothing/something muted: She's so disrespectful! She couldn't even muster up one nice thing to say about a public servant!
She says something: She's so disgusting! He was a war criminal and an absolute piece of shit cancer on society. (facts.)
Obviously it's not the same person saying both these things, but a potential support loss is always a calculation you need to have when saying literally anything.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 300d
I haven't heard any comment from Bernie Sanders or Zohran Mamdani, and AFAIK nobody's called them out on it.
I'm taking her at her word. I believe this is an honest expression of how she feels.
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 300d
The American left just wants to eat trump shit by the look of it. All you guys do is tear down everyone who opposes trump. wtf would anyone want to run?
The rest of the world thinks you guys are a bunch of babies
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 300d
Mamdani literally just got elected, what the hell are you talking about? There were no "American leftists" sabotaging Mamdani the way you claim they did to Kamala. Maybe, just maybe, when you run a humane, electable and progressive candidate, you win elections? Maybe running ghoul after ghoul and war criminal after war criminal as an alternative to Trump isn't the best strategy?
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 300d
Why are you changing the subject from Kamala and the general election. Nobody here is talking about New York.
Ps: regular people elected Mamdani, not you internet babies who shit on everything and everyone
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 299d
What year do you think it is?
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 299d
The election was a year ago champ, Harris lost
AeonFelis@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 300d
Trump is sending minorities to concentration camps, but Harris is also giving an eulogy for a warmonger so both sides are the same really.
hamid@crazypeople.online · 11 pts · 300d
Dick Chaney is one of the biggest war criminals of all time who is directly responsible for killing literally millions of people. This is the same thing. They both represent a class of people who are united against all of us.
REDACTED@infosec.pub · -11 pts · 300d
Chat, is it fascism to be able to set your hate aside and send condolenses when someone dies?
GhostOfHoxha@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 300d
Yes
madjo@feddit.nl · 8 pts · 300d
When you start praising the war criminal, yes.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 300d
If that person is a fascist, then yes. And Cheney was a fucking fascist.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 299d
Would you like me to post what she said when Sinwar died?
bizarroland@lemmy.world · -26 pts · 301d
Why do you even care? It's a very impersonal general statement of condolence.
This isn't Kamala suckin' a dead guy's dick, it's just a general "Hey, you know, whatever's he's dead", shut the fuck up"
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 29 pts · 301d
Without the middle paragraph, it would have been that yes. Going out of her way to pretend he was anything other than a horrifying monster responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands could have been omitted, for someone who's trying to market herself as having any level of integrity or representing the judgement of the people.
bizarroland@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 301d
That middle paragraph reads like a bland, milquetoast kind of non-statement statement that Kamala used just to fill the space in her post to me but you do you. If you've got a lot of hate you need to get out, and this is the thing you can spend it on, then fire away.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 301d
Dick fucking Cheney needs to be called the fuck out. Now. While he’s top of mind for a nation of children and goldfish.
That middle paragraph was probably because they crossed lines to support her and she has a different perspective than those who were tortured and killed so this bastard could live like a king but that ain’t gonna get it and because she doesn’t know that she done fucked up.
snooggums@piefed.world · 14 pts · 301d
She is sucking his dick by praising his 'public service', which consists of starting a war based on lies and screwing over the public to benefit the wealthy.
bizarroland@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 301d
I mean, yeah, you can read it that way, but to me it reads like she's just saying, "You worked here for a very long time and now you're dead"
snooggums@piefed.world · 12 pts · 301d
If you completely ignore the middle paragraph, sure.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 301d
It is really dick sucking him tho. Calling that pice of shit a devoted public servant after he was instrumental in getting us into a war that was only as popular as it was because they took advantage of the nationalistic xenophobia to let W wage daddy's war again for him, and that's not even getting into the atrocities that were committed both at home and abroad under his direct leadership, and not even mentioning ANY of that might as well be sucking him off.
I can understand "don't speak ill of the dead', but these fuckers should also understand "don't speak of a war criminal on glowing terms". It's a bad look and it's one of the many reasons yet another milquetoast democratic lost the against the worst politician in modern history.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · -30 pts · 301d
No matter what you think of Kamala, this kind of adult behavior is to be encouraged -- no, demanded -- of the political class
snooggums@piefed.world · 42 pts · 301d
NO. She should have said nothing at all instead of praising him.
Politicians should generally avoid gravedancing, sure, but not this bullshit.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 301d
“Sorry for your loss” and maybe “vice presidents, huh? Yeah.”
that’s it
She went way too far there.
snooggums@piefed.world · 9 pts · 301d
She praised his 'public service' which was all 100% evil. If she left out the middle paragraph it would have been fine.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · -23 pts · 301d
She praised what was praise-worthy: public service generally
This is how you focus on shared humanity, foster inclusiveness, and turn down the partisan tribalism
snooggums@piefed.world · 34 pts · 301d
His 'public service' was fucking over the country and starting a war based on lies to further enrich the wealthy.
Not every politician serves the public.
BackgrndNoize@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 301d
I would argue most politicians don't serve the public
njm1314@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 301d
War crimes so he and his rich friends could personally profit is in no way public service.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 301d
Dick Cheney’s entire professional life was 100% against all those things.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 299d
Tell me you don't know anything about Dick Cheney without telling me
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 301d
this is litterally a sociopathic sentiment
tomiant@piefed.social · 14 pts · 301d
We are done playing that shit. They say whatever shit they want, so we are saying the shit we want. She didn't say what we all really think.
PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au · 13 pts · 301d
No. TrackinDaKraken said it best, the first and last paragraphs were fine. The middle one is where she sells out her integrity to tell comforting lies about horrifying crimes, even though everyone can see through them instantly, right at the moment in American politics where the exact polar opposite of that is what's needed. That's not being an adult, that's being an asshole.
the_q@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 301d
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 301d
Yeah, but we need to be clear, what's being advocated for by the commenter, and being demonstrated by Harris: it's not adult behavior, it's sociopathic behavior.
Cheney was a mass murderer for personal gain. In some ways, you could consider them worse then other mass murderers, whom at least had some misguided sense of idealism guiding them. A million people died and a trillion dollars in US debt were created, in large part by Cheney, purely for personal greed. Not even greed on behalf of a people or nation. just for himself.
It's sociopathic to engage in the act of redemption for a person like Cheney, and it's sociopathic to advocate for it. It's not "adult behavior", it's mental illness.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 300d
Hagiography of a war criminal is only "adult" behavior to people who want to cast as childish anyone who disagrees with said hagiography, and your comment has no other purpose.
Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 300d
This is absolutely ridiculous. Dick Cheney was a literal war criminal and responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands if not millions of humans. This is a moment to reflect on the murderous nature of the USA empire and to never make the mistake of letting US politicians do similar shit ever again.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 299d
Actually, we should not "demand" our political class lionize monstrous war criminals