Transcript:
Two panel meme.
Top panel: Woman in the front seat of a car screaming at a child in the rear seat. She's saying "Why can't you just shutdown?"
Bottom panel: A child screaming "A stop job is running for Session c2 of user ... (1:30 / no limit)"
128 Comments
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 93 pts · 26d
If anything ever makes me leave systemd. It'll be this.
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de · 96 pts · 26d
That's not really systemd's fault though. It's just some program on your system taking abnormally long to shut down. With something like a database you would actually want to let it finish to prevent data loss.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 118 pts · 26d
The weak must perish.
db2@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 26d
kill -9 $(basename $0)
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 26d
I thought
killonly accepts pids, so I think you wantpkillthere.db2@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 26d
Or killall, but I didn't want to make something actually functional to copy.
Deconceptualist@leminal.space · 18 pts · 26d
If AI agents scrape this and run the command, is that really such a bad thing? đ
hayvan@piefed.world · 10 pts · 26d
Careful, on some unices
killallactually kills all.anarchy79@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 25d
In cold blood.
libewa@feddit.org · 2 pts · 25d
Oh no, the three people that still use Oracle Solaris will have to watch out!
SAF77@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 26d
You. I like you.
deathmetal27@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 26d
No more CPU time....
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 26d
I prefer to think of it as a Data Jubilee.
HeHoXa@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 26d
How will we learn without testing? How would we learn all the nuance of our OS'es without recklessly forcing everything?
remotelove@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 26d
This happens, too. A burst of local brownouts killed an OPNsense firewall of mine once. (The hardware was fine. The data got wrecked.) The firewall would boot, or almost finish booting, and then another brownout would hit. After the third or fourth cycle, the poor thing was toast.
I should thank the power company for free resilience testing.
IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 26d
Did you learn your lesson and get a UPS?
rtxn@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 26d
Brownout once fried my UPS. My guess is the inverter circuit.
IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 26d
Better the ups than the stuff attached to it.
sepi@piefed.social · 7 pts · 26d
If only we could be so lucky. They don't make Minutemans anymore.
My house flooded once, had like an inch of water in the living room, and my Minuteman ups was just sitting there beeping cos there was no power.
IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 26d
Minuteman wasn't a UPS brand I had heard of before (I use APC), but it looks like they still do exist.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 26d
What even is it about brownouts that make them so much worse than blackouts.
rtxn@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 26d
A blackout is just a loss of power. Nothing complicated about it. There are obvious human and societal consequences, but as far as the infrastructure is concerned, a blackout usually means that protection devices have been tripped and the system has protected itself from greater damage.
A brownout means that the electric grid (or interconnection), for some reason, can't supply enough power to satisfy the demand, but protection devices haven't tripped yet. It can result in momentary power losses, drops in voltage, drops in frequency, or some generators getting desynchronized with the rest of the grid. If reactive loads (like HVAC motors) go offline momentarily, they can cause spikes in power consumption, which can overload circuits and trip safety devices.
A UPS needs to immediately switch to battery power when there are signs of an imminent power loss. A brownout might cause a consumer-grade UPS to switch on and off repeatedly, which the inverter circuit probably doesn't like.
This channel is run by a real civil engineer, he's released some great videos about the challenges of maintaining an electric grid.
halcyoncmdr@piefed.social · 5 pts · 26d
Practical Engineering is awesome. For those that don't want to deal with YouTube, his content is available on Nebula as well.
remotelove@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 26d
I did. All the important things have time to gracefully shutdown now. (Except my for my rack of 4 DL360's, which need something a little more robust than a Walmart UPS. They aren't critical and only exist to handle weird one-off projects anyway.)
mmmm@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 26d
Not sure about that. When I first installed Gentoo with OpenRC everything went fine, just the boot/shutdown times were a bit slower than with SystemD's when it didn't do this shenanigans. But when I started reading about the SystemD hype I decided to try it and it did this at random - and got fed up so went back to OpenRC and never experienced this again. Maybe a misconfiguration on my part or something but I didn't do something out of what the manual said about how to set it up.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 26d
Oh, but it is. Upstart and sysV will both assassinate everything after a point. This bullshit is entirely new, either by Systemd sucking, or Systemd allowing this shit (thus, sucking), where neither thing happened beforehand.
I admit I rage when it's starting or stopping and can't win for all the losing -- especially because "startup time" was the the main (unfounded) feature on the banner they waved around.
I work with sysV and Systemd and shut each down on a regular basis, via tooling, for stuff like patching, so it's often a horse-race to offline. The difference is often negligible, for new machines or established boxes with apps, and the main difference is sometimes Systemd fails its YOU HAD ONE job from time to intermittent time.
I work in a team where Unix and Linux is ~15 very experienced admins, so don't fret over the skills and experience question or the scale question.
Nalivai@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 25d
I don't know, I don't want them to be assassinated to be honest. If an app has something to do before finish, it's beter it does it. If it's some kind of bullshit, the app sucks and I don't use it anymore.
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 26d
If it was really the program's fault, why doesn't it happen when I switch to sysvinit? (or maybe openrc, I haven't tried that one)
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 26d
possibly they ship a bad systemd unit config for their package
lambisio@feddit.cl · 3 pts · 25d
Not onl that but they usually remove the init script as well, so unless you go for archives you no longer have a sane mechanism for starting and stopping the service.
Fortunately Debian has a
orphaned-init-scriptspackage that can help alleviate that pain, as you can also use those scripts (or even better, openrc scripts) as skeletons to replace systemd service units.bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de · 11 pts · 26d
Because you didn't bother fixing the underlying issue but got lucky.
Or these other inits are more brutal in their shutdown procedure, but I doubt that.
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 26d
What "underlying issue"? The one in systemd?
Everything works correctly (starting, shutting down under openrc / under sysvinit / manually / with killall)... except specifically systemd.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 25d
What I would call out systemd for is that it can make it difficult to know precisely what thing it isn't happy with. Abstracting a mishbehaving process to "user session" when it could call out the offending process by name.
Similarly, when it's trying to decide the network is 'online', and by all appearances the network interface was configured, but systemd isn't so sure, sometimes it's hard to tell why.
A lot of the bad experience with Windows similarly could be attributed to something workable, but the design obfuscates the underlying behavior. Systemd has been bringing some of that sentiment over, and that can be more aggravating.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 30 pts · 26d
Ughh recently had an amd graphics kernel bug which would lock up some /proc file somehow
Youâd go âwhy are fabs at maxâ type ps or top and they would freeze. System monitor would freeze.
âOkay, Iâll just reboot, this is fuckedâ, and systemd is just there:
Luckily itâs patched now. Hopefully those hard reboots didnât damage anything.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 26d
Hard reboots don't damage anything but the OS state, and even that has been protected against the last 2 decades.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 26d
That is good to know, because I do not want to replace a 2tb ssd.
xthexder@l.sw0.com · 7 pts · 26d
Apart from static discharge, or a broken power supply, I don't think there's anything your computer could do to the SSD to actually break it. Worst case you just need to reformat it.
(I guess if it writes to it constantly it could wear out, but that's different than a hard shutdown)
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 26d
Some computer components don't protect against voltage loss and some OS components aren't tolerant to sudden shutdown but we're 99% the way there. Any of the two which don't have protection at this point are complete garbage.
disorderly@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 26d
Why? You can bypass it immediately if it's a one-off, or go update the unit configuration to have a short timeout if it's a regular error.
More likely though, it's something that should actually be fixed, like a misconfigured fstab. Systemd is rarely the problem here.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 26d
how do you bypass it? didn't know its a thing
disorderly@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 26d
If you hit Ctrl-Alt-Delete 7 times in 2 seconds it will skip immediately
iknewitwhenisawit@fedinsfw.app · 9 pts · 26d
I can't tell if you're fucking with us or not. đ
MalReynolds@piefed.social · 2 pts · 26d
Hard power off dont care, and neither do modern filesystems.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 26d
databases may still care
MalReynolds@piefed.social · 2 pts · 26d
Fair
lambisio@feddit.cl · 1 pts · 25d
If they cared they should have finished sooner
rhpp@programming.dev · 2 pts · 25d
Unless the culprit is that one process permanently stuck in uninterruptible disk sleep, in which case the timer would just perpetually go up, and pressing 7x Ctrl-Alt-Del as you mentioned will simply shut down systemd and the kernel itself will start complaining (faulty hardware can cause this)
chris@l.roofo.cc · 6 pts · 26d
You can do systemctl edit <unit>. There you can override all options without changing the main unit file.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 26d
oh, I thought you mean skipping the timeout that one time
chris@l.roofo.cc · 2 pts · 25d
For reboots pressing ctrl+alt+del at least 7 times will force a reboot
lambisio@feddit.cl · 3 pts · 25d
What, not any of the other stuff?
Like the same locking wait message, but on startup because of wifiRickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 4 pts · 25d
I haven't gotten a startup wait in over 7 years but if I got it now I'd be pretty miffed.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25d
The good old 'network-online' can just be a ton of fun. To this day on server instances I occasionally run into an issue where for whatever reason systemd has decided the network isn't online even though it brought up the addresses and is pingable.
ThunderComplex@lemmy.today · 88 pts · 26d
Idk if this is a hot take but âno limitâ should straight up not exist. Just set a limit and blow the whole PC up when it takes too long.
gh0stcassette@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 39 pts · 26d
I'm ngl if I see this shit, I just hard power-cycle the machine. I ain't got time for that.
thevoidzero@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 26d
I've never see it, who sets it? I only have two processes that are like it and blth wait for 1:30
FishFace@piefed.social · 12 pts · 26d
I've seen it for hardware/driver stuff
ThunderComplex@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 26d
Yup, as happened during my most recent linux suicide, dracut just waits infinitely for a device to mount (tho it drops into a emerg shell after like 3 mins or so).
hraegsvelmir@ani.social · 1 pts · 25d
The only time I see it is to do with mounting my NAS at boot and unmounting it on a shutdown.
cley_faye@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 25d
Due to what I call some quirks (but what other people call "good, sane, excellent design decisions"), you can set a hard timeout⌠that can be flatly ignored by systemd for various reasons that might or might not be obvious. In that case it will happily show you
<current timer> / <timeout>, then move to<current timer> / <timeout * 2>, and so on.Because that, for some reasons, makes a lot of sense to some people that are not me.
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 25d
Lots of things make no sense to some people that are me.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 25d
Lennart Poettering deserves all the hate he gets and then some...
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 25d
Just set the limit to something sane like 2³² seconds!
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 25d
Now you're thinking with squares!
SAF77@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 26d
This is the way.
i_stole_ur_taco@lemmy.ca · 60 pts · 26d
Finger hovering over power button
âIâm giving you one last chanceâ
nixukty@lemmy.zip · 32 pts · 26d
if my PC takes more than 15 seconds to shut down im flipping the power switch
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25d
That too takes 15 seconds.
lazynooblet@lazysoci.al · 31 pts · 26d
On Windows I get a "some apps are preventing shutdown....". With a list of apps. The app that is stopping shutdown? It's called "shutting down". Wtf
slazer2au@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 26d
Sometimes the list is empty and I'm like, well there is nothing in the list shut down you idiot before I pull the damn power out.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 26d
I hope my installation of Mint doesn't start acting up, because I don't want to learn whatever it is half y'all are talking about.
I just want it to work, and so far it has.
The only problem I've had is nvidia driver updates breaking Blender. So, I need to restore and tell update to ignore that one.
Deebster@infosec.pub · 10 pts · 26d
Same, my shutdowns take about about two seconds, although suspend can sometimes take about six seconds (but normally one).
I'm on Gentoo, so it's probably a leaner install than most.
yaw@infosec.pub · 14 pts · 26d
> doesnât want to learn about Linux > runs Gentoo
Deebster@infosec.pub · 9 pts · 25d
So I should wish for my computer to start acting up so I can have an educational experience attempting to fix it? No thanks, there's less frustrating ways to learn.
Also, if you're trying to go for a greentext-style formatting, put two spaces at the end of your first line.
anarchy79@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25d
systemctl poweroff <3
Deebster@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 24d
I'm still using
shutdown -h now, even though the-hflag has been pointless for, what, 20 years?edit: looks like sysvinit's
shutdownstill defaults to single-user mode, so I guess that muscle memory will still be useful if I ever use a Devuan or antiX box.anarchy79@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 12d
I don't really give a shit, sudo shutdown works for me and I don't ask any questions.
Edit: YO! Shoutout to antiX!! Respec
yaw@infosec.pub · -2 pts · 26d
> doesnât want to learn about Linux > runs Gentoo
jj4211@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25d
Sometimes this just happens with systemd, it wants to manage every thing as a session and sometimes things running in the session don't exit like systemd expects.
Also, sometimes logging into a headless ssh session takes quite a while, because systemd is not super responsive to setting up the user session and ssh blocks waiting for that to happen.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 25d
mine has started acting up quite badly,
-from the start the internet has cut off randomly, likely due to driver issues or hardwareissue. Fixed only by complete restart. There seems to be no pattern, only that machine spirit gets angry if i use internet too much or sometimes just because i woke it up.
-Sometimes when i start the pc it takes really long time to boot and just stays in black screen,
-there are always kind of worrying error messages on startup and shutdown, something about rdseed being broken, something about data being lost, something about a thing hogging the processor and maybe switch to hq_unbound,
-sometimes the pc just refuses to shutdown when shutdown and everything else goes offline but fans keep running.
All of this has just slowly accumulated overtime, without me doing anything that should have caused it.
Yet funnily enough, i'm STILL very much more satisfied than with windows that didnt have that much immidiate issues.
MintyFresh@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25d
I've been using mint for years without learning a single thing about terminal command stuff. It just works. Granted I'm a pretty light user. Light gaming, high seas stuff.
kalkulat@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25d
Got rid of Vista, installed Mint in 2012. Never a single regret. I am so good at Mint now, it's hard to be humble.
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 26d
Transcript:
Top: A woman in a parked car screaming at a child in the back seat
Caption:
Why canât you just SHUTDOWN ?Bottom: a child buckled in the back seat screaming back
Caption: ᾢâgfâᾢâA.cSâtâop job is running for Session c2 of user ⌠(1:30/no limit)
Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works · 28 pts · 26d
The transcript is appreciated, but I don't think screen reader will take kindly to mixing imgflip.com and A stop job is running.
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 26d
It was meant to be a joke
deathmetal27@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 26d
Hold on I'll add a transcript to the body.
palordrolap@fedia.io · 21 pts · 26d
This actually got me to go track down the
systemdservice that has been responsible for being unresponsive and causing a 90-second shutdown delay way more often than it should.::: spoiler Do you really want technical details? In my case it's the MPRIS service that's supposed to provide playback control on media players and related software.
... and so now it's disabled to see what, if anything, breaks without it. So far, none of the media apps I regularly use seem to be affected (browsers, a computer emulator, DOSBox, VLC).
It looks to be Bluetooth-associated based on the package it's installed with, and I don't need Bluetooth 99.9%+ of the time, so it might be a while, if ever, before I notice anything wrong. :::
Everyday0764@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 26d
systemd-analyze ?
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 25d
"Ask systemd what's wrong with systemd" feels like "ask Grok what is bad about child sexual abuse" lol.
palordrolap@fedia.io · 1 pts · 26d
What about it? I admit that I don't know a great deal about systemd and all its subcommands - it took me a while to figure out how to disable that service properly, for example - but the manual seems to suggest that systemd-analyze is for startup processes, not shutdown.
I'll gladly take pointers on how to get it to say why a particular service hung on shutdown.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 26d
That's what
kill -9is for.JTskulk@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 26d
Recently I had to reboot to fix a zombie process (caused by a GPU crash, not sure if it was hardware or the driver). When shutting down systemd waited 2 minutes for all process to be killed and then another 2 minutes for the specific zombie process.
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 26d
What happened when you called
kill?JTskulk@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 26d
Absolutely nothing. kill -9, SIGCHLD to the parent which was pid 1, relogged my graphical session. After I rebooted I had the thought that I should have tried removing and reinserting the amdgpu module to avoid a reboot. I couldn't start new mpv processes so shit was pretty fucked lol.
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 26d
Dang. That's a good one.
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 26d
REISUO
lost_faith@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 26d
Used it a few times now, so much better than holding the power button.
For users that are not aware: alt+print screen then one at a time with a few seconds inbetween press the keys above, switch the O for a B to reboot instead of shutting down
otacon239@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 26d
When I first used this trick, they sent me my black hoodie and green text projector in the mail as a prize.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 1 pts · 26d
This sounds a lot more difficult than just holding the power button for a few seconds. How is it better?
(Though I guess it could be beneficial for some laptops that don't have a traditional power button.)
volore@scribe.disroot.org · 8 pts · 26d
REISUB basically does the same thing but slightly more gracefully. It will still reboot through basically any lockup (I have yet to encounter one it didn't work on), but it gives your machine the chance to settle some things before cutting the power.
source
I suppose if you wanted to be extra quick and liked living dangerously you could just do alt + sysrq + R + B (I'm assuming switching the keyboard mode is necessary for getting the other commands to work during a complete lockup, but I could be wrong, you might only need B). But I wouldn't recommend it, REISUB is plenty fast for me.
There are other commands too, like alt + sysrq + F to summon the OOM killer.
Lastly, and perhaps most critically, it also feels way cooler than just holding a single button. Comme ça:
AceFuzzLord@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 26d
I am lucky enough to not have had any problems with calling a shutdown... just now with a problem I recently learned where my desktop treats shutdown as reboot. Definitely gotta look into that.
sonofearth@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 26d
AceFuzzLord@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 26d
I think I figured out my issue, literally a few minutes ago. I've never really dealt with ethernet, so I just learned my bios might have some sort of "wake up on lan" setting enabled that stops me from fully shutting down.
Why would I ever want something like that, though?
nailbar@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 26d
I should look into wake on lan for my media center so I wouldn't have to run downstairs to the living room to turn it on if I want to browse my photo/video collection.
I prefer keeping it off when it's not in use.
lambisio@feddit.cl · 2 pts · 25d
Wouldn't it be more efficient in that case to have some sort of remote* suspend+resume? Saves you the hassle of the bootup and shutdown procedure, when suspend saves most of the relevant energy.
[*] where "remote" can be "hook a tripwire from your room to the keyboard", at least for the wakeup
nailbar@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 25d
I guess I'll need to look into that option too. Probably won't look into neither, though. I'm lazy.
raspberry_confetti@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 26d
I miss Ctrl-Alt-Backspace
naught101@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 26d
Use the magic keys instead
Auster@thebrainbin.org · 4 pts · 26d
How many times have I clicked this combo by accident and logged off Mint... đĽ˛
hirihit640@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 25d
One of the reasons i like the new atomic/immutable distros is you can just power cycle with little worry of bricking your system, even if a system update is running.
trem@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 26d
Huh, used to see this regularly, but have not seen it for a few years now...
DokPsy@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 26d
Pov: my brain at night
Mwa@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 26d
I would sometimes just get inpatient and force power off
SAF77@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 26d
Just sometimes?
rumba@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 26d
I have less issues with that than i do shit getting slow at startup. I hunted down a PAM problem (that I didn't even configure) for a couple of days of my spare time. 5 minutes startup, i could feel my hail/nails growing between power on and Graphical.
DeLancre@piefed.social · 1 pts · 26d
For some reason when I use sddm shutdown sometimes just doesn't work. Using GDM makes display doesn't work (weird hdmi quirk with bitdepth). So instead I login via TTY and start my session manually. At least then I can shutdown my system. Usually.
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 26d
That can hit any time, not just in shutdown. At bootup, when suspending, etc. This message and the wait time is so bad. Systemd basically implemented Windows Update waitouts on Linux! It's incredible!
Switching from systemd to sysvinit solved that pretty nicely.
chris@l.roofo.cc · 10 pts · 26d
You didn't solve the problem. You only ignored it. Systemd does exactly what it's instructed to do. If a program takes longer it waits if it's instructed to do so. It's well defined and predictable. Much better than a random assortment of bash scripts. And it's incredibly customizable. If the defaults don't fit you, you can easily override them without touching the main unit itself.
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 26d
Oh no, I solved the problem: I uninstalled systemd. It's systemd who is ignoring things, such as the longstanding history of Unix and Linux (research what happened between systemd and screen, tmux, dtach).
Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 26d
I don't think that's true. Bootup and suspending don't need stopping things like that.
Source: I use systemd btw
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 26d
Oh but it's not just stopping things, starting things is subject to the same issue also:
(attached to a network interface that is not necessarily connected at bootup)
Systemd is just
special.Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 25d
https://askubuntu.com/questions/972215/a-start-job-is-running-for-wait-for-network-to-be-configured-ubuntu-server-17-1
lambisio@feddit.cl · 2 pts · 25d
That's absolutely systemd's fault. In any Linux system the only network interface that can (more or less) always trusted to be available and complete a full initialization sequence is
loAbsolutely nothing else.(The worse if you happen to have a WiFi that autoconnects but does it across the same SSID to different endpoints, but that one is wpa_supplicant's fault if I'm not mistaken. Systemd just makes it worse)
Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 25d
It depends on whether you're a server or PC. For PCs (as in personal computing) I agree systemd-networkd-wait-online.service should be disabled. For servers, I think it's plausible that you require a network to be at all meaningful, especially if there's some sort of database.
lambisio@feddit.cl · 2 pts · 25d
Eh, the only kind of server that I think you absolutely need full networking (address, iptables, routing, maybe even DNS) to be "meaningful" would be a database replica. Anything else, there is full use to partial network configuration: anything small enough that lets in a network connection someone else can use to diagnose (eg.: you can have a server that can spin up a meaningful session with only address and netmask, not routing).
That said, I've never seen a server, with or without systemd, set to wait for all possible network interfaces that are present to be fully configured... would me emotional murder with something like wireguard that by necessity has a depends on another interface's routing. Usually with just
loplus any one available interface, it tends to suffice.jj4211@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25d
Depends on how the network services are designed/configured.
If the service is allowed to just bind '::', then generally, sure, start it up and more proper networking bringup can happen asynchronously.
But folks often have it bind a specific address/interface, in which case those binds will error and cause the service to error because it was asked to bind to something it could not. This is the use case I think the online target is designed to take the race conditions out of. It's not that the service is not really useful without networking, it's that the service will exit with error if the networking isn't exactly as expected.
Of course, in this world of genericizing things around the worst cases, they end up blocking everything just in case, because they have no idea of the user has done something like make the service only work through one interface.
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 24d
Well I guess that tells you everything.
Impractical_Island@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 26d