I regret to inform you that not only do I touch grass, i get involved in local politics too. All of my municipal representatives, mayor, state reps know me and my politics. š
People attacking the .ml people for organizing while under pressure from the biggest worldwide alt right push in our generation is the funniest shit to me. God forbid the leftists start thinking collectively, you saw what happened to the donald? We're currently fucked by all that chicanery but heavens forbid you start thinking in the opposite direction too much, wouldn't want to get out of the right wing mess that we're living through, least of all if we put in place all those policies my right wing propaganda says are evil. Yeah this is so seruious that we should definitely all quickly jump into being right wing surveillance states to prevent the leftists from doing something about us all eating massive amounts of shit right now.
see that's the funny bit. I've met like 2 self proclaimed tankies irl, all other leftists think they're lame as hell.
they don't organize, they just sit behind keyboards and pretend they are.
as long as they show up and help, I have never met anyone who has a problem with them existing in irl leftists groups on ideology alone. it's when they say shit like Ukraine is full of Nazis, or voting isn't even worth showing up to the polls, or that the uyghur genocide is a lie, then they gotta go.
Sharing my experience: I have found that online, "tankie" just gets thrown at any leftist that "goes too far" authoritarian or not.
Do I agree with the Soviet use of tanks to suppress dissident in Europe in the 19th century? In so far as I wasn't there and therefore don't know fuck all about it: no. Am I going to clamor to distance myself from people who are accused of being tankies on Lemmy, especially if the people making the accusations are soc dems or centerists? Nah. Not engaging with that nonsense.
I've never met someone calling themselves that IRL, but that might be because it's more of a youth thing. I agree that there is a lot more cooperation IRL, which is what's important.
I appreciate some attempt at answering it, but I gotta be honest and say it seems pretty dogshit so far. I clicked on the "proof" that "showing any support for Ukriane would get you banned" and the post is inaccesible, the comment is too and the only context I have is some user, who has since received a bunch other moderation strikes, claims that they just wrote "slava ukraini". On what post? No clue. Given how often someone makes up some story about how they were just a uwu smol bean who totally just said "I think we should all be friends" and then the meanevil [outgroup] just BANNED them out of the blue!! Then I have my doubts on that one.
So I looked for some other comment that might showing a large group of ml users declaring their undying love for neoliberal russia, the oligarch putin, and a hatred for all things marxist. In lack of that I clicked on the post that had undeniable PROOF of the admin of .ml declaring his wholehearted support for RUSSIA only to see... A common meme
If this counts as proof that this guy supports everything about Russia, may I then say it is safe to assume you love:
You know, since apparently sharing a meme that indicates any sort of support for a country means you support everything about it. I just want to make sure. And before you respond with "well Russia is bad too" or "whataboutism" or something like that, let me make it clear: I think Russia sucks and I hope the country undergoes major changes. My question here isn't to justify some international action, it's to make sure I understand your logic.
After this point of link-clicking it kind of seemed to me like the links didn't really prove anything or say what they said, and were more just something made by some guy who was butthurt at leftists, so I stopped looking. Please share me any specific link if you have one. Let me know if I missed a "good one" in the aggregation of things that don't describe what they claim to describe.
People attacking the .ml people for organizing while under pressure from the biggest worldwide alt right push in our generation is the funniest shit to me
There can often be a lot of apathy and de-motivation coming out of .ml; particularly around elections and harm minimization. The way they talk about voting you would think its as much effort as having a week long strike.
Since you're using me as an example, my point is about the enormous efforts and resources some organizations pour into increasing voter turnout and electoral strategies over the time-tested and far more effective strategies of actually struggling and organizing. No, an individual taking a couple hours to vote isn't a problem. It's a problem when an organization makes preparing for, canvassing for, advertising for, and organizing for elections their primary focus. That takes far more effort than even week-long strikes, yet it's a common strategy.
The point isn't that individuals shouldn't spend a couple hours to vote. The point is that voting cannot establish socialism, so organizations that pour a ton of resources into electoral campaigns are wasting valuable resources that could be poured into unionizing, organizing tenants, educating cadre, and growing the organization through on-the-ground struggle.
It's intensely dishonest to frame it as opposition to spending a couple hours voting on election day. The entire political theatrics that surround elections is a months-years long process that takes up mountains of resources better spent on growing and organizing than pinning all hopes on candidates being able to change the system from within.
Itās a problem when an organization makes preparing for, canvassing for, advertising for, and organizing for elections their primary focus
Things that will also be happening when doing any other organizing. So taking some time to also have a candidate in primaries to shift the conversation further left is worthwhile. Not to even bring up minimizing harm as a last resort when needed.
So forgive me, but I don't see my framing as dishonest.
Your framing was that Marxists oppose "sparing a few hours to vote." This is incorrect, and now that I drew attention to this mischaracterization you're pivoting hard from this. Many Marxist orgs do run candidates, such as PSL, but this is never the focus, as resources can always be better spent. You used my comment as an example, so it's important that I set the record straight.
Your framing was that Marxists oppose āsparing a few hours to vote.ā This is incorrect
Your wording, and that of many others in .ml is ultimately one that is demoralizing those who are also helping on that front and one that is by and large read as against voting, as well as being self defeating. Maybe you personally are not, so perhaps pass some notes to the rest of the crew.
The way they talk about voting you would think its as much effort as having a week long strike.
"The way they respond to me constantly talking about voting, in a thread with a strawman position on what leftists say about voting" would be a more honest portrayal. But you struggle with honesty.
I've said this time and time again. They do not care about Palestinians either. They want people like Trump in charge, because they're just fascists in a different coat of paint and millions or even tens of millions of casualties is completely fine as long as it harms the reputation of a western country, any of them in fact.
None of us want Trump in charge. Accusing communists of being fascists or not supporting Palestinians simply because we emphasize the importance of grassroots organizing over trying to change the system from within is dishonest.
Yet if you don't vote against fascists, you're legitimizing what they're doing. And voting doesn't mean you need to stop the grassroots organizing. Voting should be only one of many things you do when fighting against fascism, but it should still be one. Every American who did not vote for Harris knowing she was the only candidate with the ability to stop Trump 2.0 from happening, shares part of the blame for everything Trump's done this term. And no, this doesn't absolve the DNC from guilt for giving you a shitty candidate in the first place... But if your options are literally "let fascists win" or "bite the bullet and buy 4 more years to hopefully change things via midterms and primaries", what kind of a sick joke is telling everyone to NOT vote against Trump? That voting against Trump makes them support genocide? Millions upon millions have suffered because of it since January 2025. AS HE PROMISED.
I did vote against fascists, just not for the DNC, who are also a party of genocidal imperialists. Fascism is not an organic movement, it's what happens when the capitalist class realizes that bourgeois democracy stands to risk their control. It's also why voting can never establish socialism, or prevent fascism, it's the decision of a class that is in control of the state to begin with.
A Harris presidency would have continued to see genocide in Palestine, as Biden did, and would have continued the US Empire as normal. Domestic conditions would likely have been a bit more stable, but the fundamental imperialist system that props up both the DNC and GOP would continue to face the same decay and reaction we see under Trump today.
The only way to actually prevent fascism is to organize at the grassroots, and establish socialism through revolution. You place a horrendously false binary of "let fascists win" or "bite the bullet and buy 4 more years to change things via midterms and the primaries." The former is out of our control to begin with, and the latter is not an actual path forward. The only path forward is revolution, which requires focusing our efforts on building a unified, disciplined, educated working class party that stands opposed to the imperialist system from the outside.
Framing the hours of effort I give every week, every month, every year as "supporting Trump" because I don't take an electoralist focus is absurd. The only way to end the rule of the DNC and GOP is not through trying to reform the DNC from within, but from fighting the system directly.
Much less than if you vote for them, which is what people want you to do by voting democrat. And by not voting for a fascist you are in fact signalling they don't have your support, which means they are less legitimate. There's a reason why "authoritarian dictators" generally have voter participation in the +90% range and receive the vast majority of votes. It makes them appear more legitimate.
Every American who did not vote for Harris knowing she was the only candidate with the ability to stop Trump 2.0 from happening, shares part of the blame for everything Trumpās done this term
We might be getting into some complicated politics here, but the way voting works is that if you vote for someone, then they get your vote. If you don't, then they don't.
What you're presenting here is also Harris as if she's not just basically Trump, which she is. She ran on committing genocide, pursuing brinksmanship with all of the US' enemies, continuing her support for Israel, deporting more people than trump, giving more money to cops, being less woke, cracking down on protesters, increasing the military budget and all the stuff we don't like when Trump does it.
But if your options are literally ālet fascists winā or ābite the bullet and buy 4 more years to hopefully change things via midterms and primariesā
They were both fascists. Yet here we see something interesting, you introduce a longer-term scope - something beyond the immediate. So why is it, that when we argue voting for the democrats, we can apply a long-term perspective, but when we argue against voting democrat, then suddenly it is all here-and-now? How do you think an alternative is created? Do you think it appears out of thin air? No, it grows slowly. Which is why people vote third party or don't vote democrat (or republican, but that's a given.)
Finally, you make it out to be that the only thing that matters is wether or not someone voted for Kamala. In other words: Voting is everything, nothing else matters. This is such an odd position, yet I see you DNC-dogs take it constantly. When you are told "don't vote for the democrats" or "voting does not matter" then you respond "Oh, so I should just do nothing then??"
People not voting for Harris does not mean they did nothing (and by not voting they have already done far more to work against american fascism), but you assume it does. Telling.
wrong, i absolutely do not want trump in charge. i want the democrats to suck less. i put the 2024 election loss at their feet. i wish they had actually delivered things for people (other than bombs to the genocide) so they didn't eat shit.
the people blaming voters for the democrats obscene incompetence are actively making things worse by refusing to learn anything.
i wish they had actually delivered things for people (other than bombs to the genocide) so they didnāt eat shit.
@boonhet@sopuli.xyz, see I don't think they are being fake here. They have a point here.
Still they are not under siege, so its easy to keep your purity clean and say something is not good enough. Would a total stop to support of Israel be good? Of course. The overall tone is all or nothing; which surprise they got nothing given their tendency to walk away from the table and surrender all possible influence they might have, so they cannot even muster a reduction of aid to Israel.
Its not clear what their superior community engagement has brought to that or other causes. I suppose they could travel to Yemen and enlist in the Houthis' army. For what its worth they did say they are standing up to Israel and taking serious action.
the people blaming voters for the democrats obscene incompetence are actively making things worse by refusing to learn anything.
Its a fair point, but also a self fulfilling prophecy. If you walk away from the conversation you lose your position. It is not a surprise that those who left got nothing. Or that when they return they have nothing to build from their previous success. Mamdani is a good example here. The DSA can point to his record for re-election and other DSA can point to him and say lets bring that here; rather than just abstract talking points.
Its okay if .ml isn't the tip of the spear on the electoral front, but their disparaging is counter productive and damages overall leftist unity.
the "walk away from the conversation" framing assumes that conversation is a place where meaningful negotiation happens.
the democratic party has demonstrated repeatedly that left pressure doesn't move them. they take the votes and ignore the demands, then they act as if they were always going to win and never needed you (at least until it's time to cope about a loss, then we're entirely to blame).
doesn't matter if it's for palestine, trans healthcare, minimum wage increase, universal healthcare, more often than not it's the democrats calling the cops on people for speaking up.
i've said before but your vision of 'left unity' reads like attempts to discipline leftists, ie get us to shut up about things that make liberals uncomfortable and precompromise with them.
Have you ever actually listened to the people for whom you're so busy constructing a tenement in your brain? Or do you just wait for them to finish talking so you can continue to argue against imaginary positions?
I've had too many discussions with tankies praising genocide to listen to them anymore. Not everyone from .ml is a tankie, but far too many are and tankies are absolutely disgusting human beings. They've constantly shown that people dying is great if it happens for the right cause.
Iāve had too many discussions with tankies praising genocide
I've yet to see that happen once. You people keep making these claims and whenever you get asked you make vague gestures about it happening "soooo often, too many times I just can't bear to repeat it!"
It's the worlds laziest copout.
If it happened so often then it wouldn't be that hard to find a few easy quotes to illustrate it. And lets be honest, if it happened so often you make it out to, then you would not be saying this. You would gleefully pull out some fucked up sketchbook to prove how evil these damn tankies are.
In my experience most of people from your instance (and .world) are generally frothing at the mouth racists, and I would not have a hard time to support that claim, if asked. Now I don't have a sketchbook, but I can go looking. I usually just jump into any thread about China or Russia and I'll see a bunch of people out with their calipers.
It's wild how you people just make up shit all the time and people just buy it uncritically, because it's about a group they're preconditioned to hate.
Edit: funny how theres always radio silence as soon as one asks for proof for the preposterous claims
Struggling directly against the capitalist state at every opportunity, on the ground, is "actively helping Trump and the GOP win elections?" What kind of nonsense double-speak is this?
Okay this might be difficult to understand, but the people who didnt vote for Kamala because of her many issues also didnt vote for Trump due to his many issues.
Eh, I think there's a decent amount of intellectual overlap between authoritarian right wingers and authoritarian left wingers. They will both prioritize state control over people.
You messed up the "don't use variations of the word" step.
What do you mean by
"Established authorities" and
"conventionalism"?
How does a "high degree" of submission look different from a "low degree"?
What constitutes "aggressive" defence in relation to regular defence and why is it definitionally authoritarian to defend something "aggressively"?
I don't think you understand the word totalitarian or it's variations. You probably understand authoritarianism, but you have a vested interest in not understanding it.
Try doing some reading, authoritarian personality is well studied.
Lemmy.ml is more broadly federated than piefed.social, which also has a head developer that made lists of leftists to permaban. Being a communist on the English-speaking internet is already a dissenting view, we cannot escape non-communist viewpoints like non-communists can. Thus, echo-chambers to actually exist must affirm widespread positions while shutting out any dissent, which in the west means liberalism.
Thatās something I actually like about .ml it allows me to find literature on important current topics without the capitalist mindset, thatās so hard to come by. On the other hand the blind following of concepts like Leninās democratic centralism and Maoās defence of state oppression, makes it difficult to convince with, along with the silent support for capitalist autocracies like the Kremlin and Xi.
Iām currently reading the Red Book from Mao and there some parts that are needlessly dangerous that use crusaders logic to defend atrocities for a promised future.
Thatās something I actually like about .ml it allows me to find literature on important current topics without the capitalist mindset, thatās so hard to come by.
this is exactly why i was originally drawn to browse the hexbear.net/c/news. living in the US the corporate run media maintains pretty tight control over narratives. i prefer to know as much as i can of the entire picture and decide for myself.
none of the orgs i'm in are even dem cent. it's a framework for organizing which i think fits a particular type of moment, but is not without its issues outside of those moments.
"blind following" Yeah alright, sorry for reading something, relating it to what I know, investigating its claims, find them to be well-founded and the arguments to stand up to reason, and therefore I decide to incorporate it into my worldview. I suppose a much better method would be to read falsehoods written by someone the CIA decided to fund or whoever you want.
Just to spare you some sanity as I've told others -- and you're probably already well aware -- most of these tankies who have a hard-on for and simp on behalf of Eastern Authoritarian genocidal apologists have a tendency to be a part of the 50 Cent Party or some derivative troll farm. In other words, they literally get paid to post comments; meanwhile Lemmy itself has limited control over sock-puppet account duplication. Just know there are sane people on here and don't waste your time too much. Stay on message in the first comment or two and let them run their mouths if they wish, but many of them get a paycheck from dragging you into comments (if aren't actual zealots themselves). You never know. though -- it could just come down to them thinking, "Hammer & Sickle cool!" or something.
I'm all for exploring other ideologies; but that tends to stop short of ends-justify-means utopic fantasy whereby many are oppressed; when there are double-standards when geopolitically-expedient for the likes of what is occurring in Gaza, but conveniently not for what is happening in Ukraine, to Uyghurs, to Tibetan Buddhist monks, to Hong Kong democratic protesters, to Taiwanese sovereignty in blatant imperial conquest.
Yeah it would definitely help to know who downvoted or upvoted some blatantly heinous comments.
Having now been fodder to a couple of the 50c army Iām now much less inclined towards the label of Socialism so Iām not sure for the overall motives other than Cult purity.
Iāll be looking for a mbin or piefed instance now š
My hobby is gardening. I am involved in local politics. I do Union organising as well. I'm sorry your fantasy doesn't align with reality, maybe if you vote harder, abduct more unwilling Ukrainians to the meat grinder, or bomb more brown people it might.
Plus, I doubt anyone on .ml touches grass enough to be a security risk :P
who do you think are the people recruited for a terrorist attacks here and there? they are not from taylor swift fanclub. most of them won't go further than bitching on the internet from their parents basement and will never be a problem in real life, but 1 in 1000 is all it takes.
MLs are pro violent suppression of any dissenting opinion they have no leg to stand on. The first they came poem is completely irrelevant here. Theres no evidence to suggest monitoring Russian foreign agents leading to anything remotely similar to the Nazi machine.
The increasing rise of Fascism in America and many parts of Europe and you think puting Communist on "a list" for "security" has nothing to do with what that poem was talking about?
There is a very vocal part of ml users, who are not Communist or socialist, but anti West and pro-China or pro-Russia.
Point that Chinese workers are - according to Chinese labour law and Chinese statistics - exploited and work on average more than 6 days a week, and you'll get banned (https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/15/14/11409).
Point that soviet Russia was imperialist (or quote Mao saying that) and you will get banned.
I would ask you; have you ever listened to an MLs response to these things? I could do that if you want.
But, I think you're confusing the moderation of an instance to maintain intelligent discourse with a conclusion of "they are denying facts"
I'll give an analogy. If it helps.
Do you think a person posting "black crime statistics" in any "left leaning" sub would be taken seriously? Would that sub explain to every individual person the relationship of poverty, the relationship of policing black neighborhoods, the relationship of the for profit prison systems? The war on drugs, etc etc etc.
No, they would offer resources to these things. But the sub is not meant to be a place where "technically" style Ben Shapiro types are given a voice. They get banned.
Those types of people would not be welcome in any "liberal" space. They are not there to engage in conversation. They are there to say "black people are criminals".
This is the same type of perspective that most MLs have on China or otherwise. It is not that we have a cult like view of China or other historically socialist projects.
So, yeah, maybe you got banned. But you were probably the 1000th person posting "statistics" that was never looking to hear the response.
Maybe you were. Maybe you were sincere in asking. But an ML run instance is not the place to learn that. It's a place for discourse and criticism between people that already have a certain level of agreement in how they analyze the world (dialectical materialism being that method). At least on the level of being able to understand why the equivalent of "black on black crime" is conservative garbage.
If you got this far. I'll gladly address what you linked. And my analogy is not 1to1. I have major criticisms of China when it comes to labor. But, we need to establish a level of understanding if you are actually interested in another persons perspective.
If not. That's fine. But, you're not in .ml. I am trying to have a good faith interpretation of your points. You will get that from good people from .ml OUTSIDE of .ml.
The .ml echochamber you're arguing for, is focused on being anti-western, not being Communist, not on improving workers rights or life standard. And your post again proves that. You really shouldn't call yourself Communists, you are not. Empty headed academics at best.
It could be not the users (I have an account on .ml) who are at fault, but the mods, but that does shape what you are allowed to think and say. And that makes all it dangerously tribal, homogenized to a point where it's indistinguishable from USSR and China cult to an external observer.
Do you know what the worst part is? How .ml instance is moderated, how the discussions are there allowed to shape, they alienate and polarize against Communism people from EU and USA. That is literally what Operation Gladio was expected to achieve.
I donāt know what kind of communism you think there is that doesnāt oppose western imperialism, support the Chinese socialist project, or applaud the damage that Russia has done to NATO. All of these positions materially improve the condition of the global working class.
Like, what do you think communism is, if it isnāt opposition to the global system of capitalism that is destroying the world and murdering millions of people?
And also, I hope you note that my language is precise. I say āoppose western imperialism,ā not āhate everything about the west.ā And āsupport Chinese socialism,ā not āChina can do no wrong.ā And āapplaud opposition to NATO,ā not āI want to suck Putinās dick.ā Marxists are concerned with the nuances and complexities of material reality, we try to avoid emotionally reactive stances that try to sort the world into good vs evil.
or applaud the damage that Russia has done to NATO
Yeah, I don't think I want to talk to anyone who applauds any wars. And you're literally proving my point of being anti western garbage instead of workers unite communist.
I don't think I missed your point. But we have shifted the goal post. Your comment was about very specific points related to criticism of China and labor conditions and why something like that would get you banned.
My reply attempted to be more general around those specifics. I was attempting to give you a perspective on why "stating facts" would be considered bad faith in a certain perspective. Hence the analogy I gave.
So I may have misdirected the conversation unintentionally. That wasn't my intention.
I am not even necessarily defending .ml specifically. I don't spend a majority of my time on that instance. You can see my post history. So, l can concede to being too defensive there. I should say I'm more defending what .ml means for ML (Marxist Leninist). I personally have mostly encountered cridge posts (usually hyperbolic) with good comment discourse there.
My intention was to explain the perspective of a literal Marxist Leninist and why the examples you gave in your original comment would be considered, in any leftist circle, a bad faith argument based on the INTENTION of them. The point of the statistics is to not ask "why are labor conditions like this" but to CONCLUDE that China is some corruption of leftism and "not real socialism". It's not meaningful in why it's being brought up.
No ML is worried about addressing the labor conditions of China. But we aren't interested in someone bringing up labor conditions in China who's only reason to discuss is to reach a conclusion that is in favor to the narrative that is the larger problem of American Imperialism and pro capitalist propaganda.
ThirdConsul is a nationalist. So, neither, just someone that will grab Mao's incorrect and ultraleftist take on the USSR being "social imperialist" while at the same time opposing socialism in China at all periods. ThirdConsul grabs whatever quote is meaningfully convenient, regardless of whether or not they actually agree with the underlying analysis.
There literally isn't and you literally won't.
But surely you must have overwhelming amounts of proof for these claims, which you can readily present, since it is so common. I mean if it is so common as you make it out to be, then it should be probable without any effort at all really.
In my general experience what happens is someone like you comes in, says some bullshit, gets challenged on it, you throw a tantrum, after about 20 comments you finally do a brief Google, whereafter you pull up a source you've only skimmed yourself, you then receive context to the source and this makes you even more pissy to the point you drop the act and just throw out some variation of bigotry, then you get banned. Then you think "oh wow, you get banned just for mentioning Tiananmen Square!" even though you dont. You get banned for behaving like an asshole, like you do most places.
Yes i dont think a poem that lists several groups of people being targeted by the state is the same as someone saying they want to disclose people who have been working to undermine Europe on behalf of russia.
This has nothing to do with communists they were not mentioned. MLs are only a subsect of communists and they are mentioned for deepthroating Putin's boot not because they're communists.
I really would love to understand where this idea that "Marxist Leninist = Putin supporter"
Marxist Leninist (myself included) hate Putin. Putin is literally the embodiment of western neoliberalism in post Soviet Russia. He was literally installed and supported by western aligned oligarchs and capitalist within Russia.
I really am curious where you get this idea. I'd love receipts. I really hope it's not just "MLs criticize NATO". I really really hope it's not just a binary view of the world like that. I swear people view the world like it's a football match.
Why would we not criticize Putin? He's a reactionary capitalist. Our critique of Putin isn't that he's some supernatural evil like liberal analysis often circles back to, but instead based on his actual, material position. Pushing back on liberal analysis doesn't mean Putin is "our guy" or anything of the sort. First and foremost, we oppose the imperialist system headed by the US, and NATO which exists to protect it.
Any critical support for Russia extends to their right to self-determination from NATO encirclement, and their opposition to western imperialism, not to their reactionary, bourgeois society nor Putin at the top. The dissolution of the Soviet Union was a tremendous human tragedy, one that directly led to the current war today.
Marxist-Leninists despise NATO, for the genocidal terror inflicted by its member-states around the world and its position as a coalition of imperialist powers. Marxist-Leninists also despise Putin and United Russia, and believe socialism to be a necessity for Russia in the future that the nationalists will not accept willingly.
The major difference is that Marxists are materialists. We don't believe Putin is some embodiment of supernatural evil trying to eat babies and conquer the world, we seek materialist explanations for the conditions and analyze them dialectically. This puts our analysis at odds with those who see the world similarly to Marvel movies, as conflict between the forces of good and evil.
Marxist-Leninists despise NATO, for the genocidal terror inflicted by its member-states around the world and its position as a coalition of imperialist powers
So you have no examples? Like, you don't even have to link it. You can literally just tell me an example. I'm just asking for the bare minimum here mate.
My feed is full of Linux memes and pro Palestine posts. I'm not the charactercher you've constructed in your head.
who have been working to undermine Europe on behalf of russia.
literally zero evidence of this other than a lot of loud people with hurt feelings online.
'saying they want to disclose'
here's what OP thinks
i'm a trans anarchist who happened to land on this server out of sheer fucking happenstance almost 4 years ago, part of why i havent bothered to leave is because it's always the most overt fascists getting really mad about a fucking posting server.
Even if only one person at the bar is a Nazi, if you keep going everyone is going to call you a Nazi as well once the bar is known for being on with Nazis.
As long as your ok with being associated with the thing the place is known for then it doesn't really matter.
The vocal group of a place is it's face no matter how big or small that group is.
Right, and there's no one who supports Putin on .ml.
For a group of people who like to fellate themselves talking about "nuance" you people struggle with anyone who has a deeper analysis than "Putin evil, Russians are orcs, Russia is Mordor, Europe is full of elves, zelensky is Aragorn". It makes you see red and go "OH SO YOU LOVE PUTIN???? WOWWWW"
Ask the typical tankie from ml or hexbear whether they agree that Putin should face his criminal charges at the ICC and is just as much a war criminal as Bibi and that they were wrong to invade Ukraine and wage an attempted genocide, and whether China and North Korea are also complicit in genocide for supporting Russia's illegal invasion. I bet the majority dodge the straightforward question with what should be a straightforward answer.
Don't be dismayed by conglomeration of either young and naive kool-aid drinkers, or the actual foreign operatives (for which we know have major online troll farms).
Russia is engaged in a war with a near peer, Israel is committing an extermination campaign on Palestine using stolen land. I have no love for Putin, reactionary nationalist that he is, but to equate the Russo-Ukrainian war with the genocide of Palestine is to make a mockery of genocide. Further, such a blanket statement erases the plight of the people of the Donbass region, who have been at war with Kiev since 2014 and who want to join the Russian Federation. The Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics have just as much a right to self-determination as Palestinians do.
Condemn Putin all you want, I have no love for him as I said. Hang him if you will. But don't undermine the actual plight of the many decades of genocide committed against the Palestinian people to "own the tankies." You have a history of undermining the plight of Palestinians, this isn't a new development for you, it's a repeated pattern.
Well its not one question, its a bunch lumped together.
Should Putin face criminal charges at the ICC?
Sure
like Bibi?
Neither Putin nor Netanyahu are the issues with their nation or the driving force behind what is going on. Putin is in fact the moderate in the Russian government, waiting much longer than what most of his colleagues wanted him to with regards to invasion and subsequent escalation. Like how 80+% of israelis support the genocide.
If you want him convicted? Probably not.
He's just as much a war criminal
No. Israel is enacting an actual genocide against a defenceless population, the genocide has been going on since 1947 and has drastically accelerated these last few years.
While there are many accusations of genocide against Russia, its pretty clear (as has been thoroughly investigated by international observers - whom have been allowed to investigate, unlike in Israel) that, while there are civilian casualties, the goal of the russian military is to win a war against Ukraine, not exterminate a people.
he was wrong to invade Ukraine
Honestly, this one is tough. I feel like it was wrong, but I understand why Russia did it - the NATO posturing, the brinksmanship, the constant breaches of treaties... At a certain point one has to ask what else Russia could do. Now I know how you're going to take this "OH SO YOU SUPPORT RUSSIA YOU CONDONE AHHH" but really if you actually read what I write, then that's not what I am saying. I am saying, given russias position, russias interest in remaining a sovereign country, the threat against Russia (perceived or real), the situation Russia was in was one where the only outcome given to it was invasion. Its not like it did not try diplomacy first.
wage an attempted genocide
Wait, aren't you the zionist who couldn't say Israel is committing a genocide? A classic zionist tactic is cheapening the word by using it to describe any hostile action. Im sorry, but between Russia and Ukraine, Russia is not the one who has systematically pursued an ethnic minority, banned the language of that minority, bombed the fuck out of areas with that minority and all that stuff.
China and North Korea are also complicit in genocide for supporting Russiaās illegal invasion.
Since I don't see how Russia is committing a genocide (because genocide isn't just "when you are at war" if that were the case then the Native Americans committed genocide against colonists in the 17- and 1800's. I hope we can both see how ridiculous that is.) They are giving support to Russia, so they are complicit. Id like to know what makes the invasion of Ukraine less legal than other invasions before I agree on the "illegal" part.
for which we know have major online troll farms
Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is A Foreigner.
This refrain of yours is so odd to me, because I never see you invokenit with people you agree with, despite the fact there's also massive pro-us-regime botfarms.
Marxist-Leninists support the rights of nations to self-determination and the working class to resist oppression by any means necessary. In the event that nations establish sovereignty, and the working classes establish socialism, we also support their right to defend both. The "dissent" we support suppressing is fascism, capitalism, colonialism, imperialism, etc. Accusing leftists of being foreign agents is a time-tested mechanism the Nazis and other groups like the US have used to squash labor organizing and decolonizing efforts.
It's a Marxist-Leninist wiki, and the pages I linked are just the ML positions on what constitutes a nation and what we mean by self-determination. It isn't even something like a current or historical event that might draw contention, it's just an explanation of what Marxists believe theoretically.
If you really want to own us and laugh at us then you should consider reading the texts in cowbees introductionary reading list that would really own him and be so funny!
Judging by how cowbee plays very loose with facts and is incredibility ideologically bias I will not waste my time reading their propaganda list. Ive already read enough commie theory and its just not convincing. Its a child's view of the world in my opinion.
I don't "play very loose with facts," it would be great if you could provide an example we could talk about but as it stands that's needless slander. Further, calling it a "propaganda list" is a bit silly, like the links to Prolewiki for the Marxist-Leninist theory of nations and self a determination, the reading list I made is not a history list or anything, just works from major Marxists and Marxist-Leninists to explain the 3 major components of Marxism-Leninism: dialectical and historical materialism, the Marxist view of economics, and scientific socialism.
There aren't really facts to dispute here, that's like calling someone recommending Plato's The Republic untrustworthy for understanding Plato. That's pretty silly IMO.
Not in Russia, but in actual sovereign countries like the recent Venezuela shitshow (Vietnam, etc. - oh no, communism). Yes, I'm not worried about a capitalist organisation attacking a capitalist country, but we're still supporting a corrupt system heavily influenced by the US.
The only thing more annoying than .ml cringe posters are people that make their entire argument ".ml of course".
I forget I'm from .ml most the time. Until I get a "oh you would say that as a .ml". It's pretty helpful for telling me that a conversation will go nowhere.
Your Sun is in .ml, meaning you're fundamentally opinionated and fierce. Incompatible with .world, and you can tolerate dbzer0s in group settings, but don't work well together one-on-one.
I don't really see any of you breaking ranks or ever pumping the brakes on a dogpile so it kind of stands. There's not really anything to learn from people who eschewed all individuality or basic self restraint just to make sure they never get verbally bullied by Nazis again
he's salivating at the thought of turning his perceived political enemies over to the alphabet boys; not a huge leap to identify him as 'spiritually american'
Danes are the biggest dickriders of the US around. Even after all Trump did they still talk about being the US' "closest ally." Denmark is completely bought in on the US propaganda.
No, the fact that that is the general refrain amongst politicians, especially the prime minister - the leader of the country - AND the fact that Denmark continues to cooperate with the US as much as possible, including getting American bases on Denmark proper, is why I consider the country to be completely subsumed by the US.
Sorry you cheap dunk sucked.
Damn, just become a cop or join the military or something. Say it with your whole chest. If you want to live a life of violence against your fellow workers, don't be a coward and outsource that shit.
In 1949, shortly before he died, English author George Orwell prepared a list of notable writers and other people he considered to be unsuitable as possible writers for the anti-communist propaganda activities of the Information Research Department, a secret propaganda organisation of the British state under the Foreign Office. A copy of the list was published in The Guardian in 2003 and the original was released by the Foreign Office soon after.
How can I tell you don't. Policy asking for list of religious names to be given to public security beuaruo, to be used to reject names of newborn children. Can't have more Chinese source.
Also is this the famous whataboutism I hear people crying about so often?
Well, you started by calling Europeans nazis. And that now you cry whataboutism tells me you did not mean the first /s.
Whataboutism isn't real it's simply fun to poke fun at the people who use accusations of "whataboutism" as a shield to avoid comparative arguments by asking about it in that manner when the opportunity presents itself.
I also didn't start by calling Europeans Nazis I started by making a joke about Europeans making lists of undesirables, the Nazis is only one instance of that long held tradition (especially if you want to count EuroAmerikans and their escapades during and after WW2, McCarthyism, etc). Also I very much meant the /s I am not shocked at all by it.
I'm sure PET will appreciate you focusing on the real enemy: leftists online. They will be so happy they only kick you twice in the face before contorting your body in a fucked up position for a couple of hours. You might even sue them in the human rights Court, as they are every week. You have to provide your own lawyer though.
I know you tankies love to pretend otherwise in order to paint any criticism of your flavor of authoritarianism as racism, but:
CCP ā China ā the Chinese people
Is it possible GreenBeard was being racist? Definitely. But to jump to that because they appear to be criticizing the CCP is... transparently ridiculous.
First comes the making of the lists, then comes the rounding up of the people on the lists. You need camps to hold them in unless there is another, last solution. /s
Genuine question: What could the Democratic Party do that would make you stop supporting them? Because clearly, a literal genocide isnāt it.
When our progressive movement, either DSA has a full split as well as having more availability (same for PSL) then there is no longer a practical utility for the democratic party. Until then its them or crusader republicans doing double time.
You are misunderstanding blue no matter who as being pro dem rather than a last resort. And it continues to be one because MLs just want a total surrender of the electoral front.
My question was not "What could happen that would make you stop supporting them", it was "What could they (as in the party itself) do that would make you stop supporting them".
MLs just want a total surrender of the electoral front.
I actually don't. If you're a leftist, your electoral front should definitely not be represented by the Democratic Party. And it doesn't matter that it's a "last resort", it has never worked and it will continue to fail.
Genuine question, what would republicans do for you to not shill for them? Because the thing you claim to care about, literal genocide, isn't one of them.
He has a point tho... If both sides commit genocide and you find a genocide under one side unacceptable then you should find a genocide from the other side also unacceptable.
By your own logic if you don't move to a third party then you are in fact pro genocide.
And genocides have happened under both parties control. Repeatedly in fact though out history.
So are you just pro genocide when it's in line with your values or something?
Nobody in this thread supports the republicans, it was a deliberately bad-faith attempt to declare any opposition to the DNC to be support for the GOP.
The answer is I don't shill for them. But what I do know with you American supremacists is that upon me saying this, you will instantly enter into pedanticism in order to dodge the question I just asked. Prove me right please :)
Ah I just noticed your account age and skimmed your history. Won't be making the mistake again of thinking there's a 5% chance you're not a bad faith actor.
Ok and I'm so sure this is good faith on your part! As long as republicans are worse than democrats, I am forced to vote for democrats in almost every context. This is not a real choice, it is the only moral one. I am not someone who can pretend taking a symbolic stand is more important than actually minimizing harm.
These conversations are literally never useful though, because you would rather commit seppuku than acknowledge that third parties have little to no chance of victory. Now, prove me right!
I understand that you want people to believe Democrats are the same or worse than Republicans. This is the lie you keep pushing constantly and is why I'm replying to you
Demonstrably they fight for all the same people and none of them are you or me. Dems are just Republicans with pride flags. They support every single evil thing just the same but mildly better optics (sometimes).
Right, this is the lie you're spreading. Democrats are objectively far better in every aspect. The fact that they partially are terrible people can never change the facts. The US electoral system all but guarantees third parties losing. No amount of lying can change that. If you care about any vulnerable people, Democrats are your only option 99% of the time, which is another thing that lying cannot wash away.
Original comment: Yeah nah making lists of people based on politics is and should be illegal for obvious reasons. I mean, I know that this isn't honored and that I'm 100% on a couple of lists, but it's just a bad idea to normalize it.
Making apologies for Russia or the USA is really stupid though.
Neo-McCarthyism. As usual, the anti-war activists are going to be labeled "enemies of the state," foreign actors, etc. It's already happening to BreakThrough News, the DSA, PSL, etc.
Putting aside the fact that OP's idea is a vile edgy fantasy, this "antiāwar activism" is frequently a veneer for this narrative: US is effectively solely at fault, Russia's invasion is justified, the west should stop aiding Ukraine and let Russia win. This is the position I've seen from .ml users.
And it's not easy to not see that as indeed being proāRussian.
I linked 3 statements, from the DSA, Breakthrough News, and PSL, on the west's position with respect to the Russo-Ukrainian war. All 3 draw attention to the long-understood role NATO and western countries made in provoking the conflict in the first place. The belief on the left is that war is most commonly caused by the continuous swelling of the military industrial complex, and the insaitable necessity for expansion and plundering other countries.
Ukraine is getting hollowed out for parts by western countries, who provoked the war in the first place, and are pushing for Ukraine to continue fighting "to the last Ukrainian" rather than work towards a negotiated settlement. None of this position is based on support for Russia as a founding reason, yet those who cannot actually argue against these positions frequently try to dodge the anti-war and pro-peace argument by claiming it's somehow the work of Russian influence.
There's good reason both the DSA and PSL largely agree about NATO's role, as well as Die Linke, PTB, Breakthrough News, etc. It's because this didn't come from nowehere, the west has done this over and over again around the world repeatedly. It's an observed pattern, with the only agency allowed internally to stop this is to advocate against the far-right slide and increased militarism.
We also oppose US and NATO military interventionism and the tens of billions in military aid and weapons shipments which only further exacerbates the war and undermine a negotiated settlement, as well as sanctions that will harm ordinary Russians.
So, pretty much as I said. Let Russia win and call it the antiāwar position, lol.
Ukraine is getting hollowed out for parts by western countries
Ohhh, evil western exploiters... Unlike the humane Russia that wouldnt hollow it out at all.
None of this position is based on support for Russia as a founding reason
It might not be the founding reason, but the outcome is the same.
A negotiated settlement is the best path forward for the Ukrainian people, who have been used by NATO countries as a battering ram to encircle and oppose Russia. This is not a "pro-Russia" stance, it's a deliberate wish to end the war as soon as possible with as little bloodshed as possible. This is pure "peace is war" doublespeak on your part.
Saying stuff that nearly perfectly aligns with the official Russian narrative and military goals, and yet mechanically insisting that your stance is not proāRussian, is just not terribly convincing.
itās a deliberate wish to end the war as soon as possible with as little bloodshed as possible. This is pure āpeace is warā doublespeak on your part.
There's at least one other option to end the war as soon as possible ā having Russia cease the invasion. But in the proāRussian narrative, that option is not on the table, since the invasion was justified and necessary. It is not Russia that you want to see giving up, but Ukraine.
A ceasefire that gives concessions to a genocidal aggressor that is likely to attack again afterwards to get the rest of what it wanted is a pretty worthless peace, there's nothing doublespeak about that conclusion. E.g. I also wouldn't be advising Stalin to go beg Hitler for a ceasefire and giving concessions to the Third Reich while the Wehrmacht was encircling Leningrad, even though continuing and properly ending the war would and in fact did cost hundreds of thousands of lives ā as tragic as it was, it was the correct decision, rather than some grotesque peace treaty. So spare me this selective pacifism.
Reread the statements I linked. The DSA and PSL are very different organizations, same with PTB and Die Linke, and yet they all focus on how to best bring an end to the war in a practical manner from their own positions as western organizations. None of them have power over what Russia does or does not do, but all can influence the continued warmongering and militarization of NATO. Only four countries recognize Russia as genocidal in the Russo-Ukrainian war:
And that's because the Russo-Ukrainian war has, among modern conflicts, had a remarkably low civilian death count on both sides. What this means is that a swift and expedient settlement is the best that organizations in the west can actually push for to help the people of Ukraine, people who do not wish to keep fighting for western billionaires to plunder minerals. Further still, Donetsk and Luhansk already want to join Russia. Even if Kiev succeeded in pushing Russia back and getting them to surrender, Kiev would still be right back to the civil war it was in for 8 years prior to Russia entering the war.
The best case scenario for working class Ukrainians, as well as the people in the Donbass, is a negotiated settlement now. This is something socialist parties and anti-war activists recognize around the world. As the conflict in Iran heightens, it becomes clear that NATO buildup is being used to bomb elementary schools like Minab, all riding off of the far-right slide and militarization campaigns that only service western billionaires.
None of this is "pro-Russia." Labeling any socialist views as being "foreign influenced" is a time-tested method of cracking down on any form of anti-war, anti imperialist, pro-labor activism for centuries.
I am like Kraut, referring to pro-Putinists, which include individuals in a wide assembly range of political positions and whether they can sit in high level positions in the defence, etc.
It's easy to simply call people "pro-Putinists" and then make lists, crack down on them, repress them, etc. Calling anti-system agitators "foreign agents" or "foreign influenced" is a time-tested tool of fascism.
I don't believe this wide sweeping, that you refer to, will occur.
People who support the aggressive nation of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine are, in fact, very identifiable. You are not innocent "anti-war activists". You support an aggressive neighbor.
I don't support "cracking down on" you. I DO support you being barred from holding certain positions in defense and similar.
Last 5 years? We know exactly what politicians worked for Putin for the last 30 years. We know they are a security risk but there's nothing we can do about it. Nothing legal that is.
It's time to make lists of people. All those who spent the last 5 years propagandising for Russia to demanding Europe stops its defence spending.
Isn't it also about 5 years that there is the War next to EU's border? (Russia vs Ukraine)
There is also trump that threaten EU, and do whatever "he wants"
I would really want to see more united EU, because now Eu is still subordinate to USA
Entry #1: the entire .ml user base
I don't know even how I should react to it, I don't consider the entire .ml instance as something bad, I can see why some instance defederate from them, but that is it
Whatever hapened to those fascist clowns that moved to Russia? Been awful quiet. Did they come back to the US with their tail between their legs? Sent off to fight in Ukraine and killed? What happened to them?
Well... russia is known for being selective with whom they sent to the front line. E.g. if you live in Moscow, you are a lot less likely to be selected than from other regions of Russia. And people claim that Russia is doing so because that helps them to avoid public outcry in major cities.
Given that the Russian public probably doesn't give a shit about this guy, and we know that he was sent to the front line. He has probably been sent to the most dangerous front lines, repeatedly.
If .ml is so bad, wouldn't anyone visiting it be able to see that for themselves? They dont need your commands to leave the instance.
Why continously feudpost in some cringe campaign against the instance? Normal people block people/shit they dont want to see and move on with their lives. Why haven't you?
Welcome to a tutorial on how to block .ml on your personal account.
In the top right corner of the top of the page, there are 3 horizontal white bars. Click it.
This will open up a drop down menu. At the bottom of that menu, you will see your username. Click it.
This will open another drop down menu with 3 options. Click "Settings".
At the top of your screen you will see 2 tabs. Click the one that says "Blocks".
Here you will see "Block user" "Block community" and "Block instance". Click the down arrow below "Block instance".
This will open up a search bar. Type "lemmy.ml" and click it after it shows up. That's it! You've blocked .ml and will never see content from the instance.
But wait, we aren't done yet in this menu. Click the down arrow under "Block user". Now type "UltraGiGaGigantic" Make sure you select my .ml account as the other ones I no longer use. Thanks, appreciate it.
The outrage is really funny when you consider that no country ever quite perfected the art of list based politics like the USSR did. They had so many lists and lists of lists. Everybody was on a list by somebody, who was probably on at least a couple of their lists. It was an art form.
Funnily enough, you'll hear something very similar from the European far right parties. It's almost like both of these extremes are funded by the same interests..
I don't propagandise for Russia, or 'demand' anything from Europe. But I'm completely against rising the military spending, with my money at least, the supporters can open a gofundme and dump all their savings in it if they want. If the oop knew something about European history or the current socio-political landscape they would know that their own armed forces are the bigger 'real security risk' for most European countries.
I also hope all these spend-risers, and their kids, are the first to enlist and volunteer for the front lines.
None of this neighbours were in NATO or the EU. European military budgets are alright, and Russia is in no way a threat. Ukraine (which I'm in favour to support with arms, intelligence, money.. or whatever they need) is giving them some hell with just a tiny fraction of the equipment and personnel.
At my workplace we have them eurofighters flying overhead every weekday (today I've seen also a chinook, and one of those massive transport planes with four propellers) burning my tax euros. I think they have plenty of money already. We could send those fighter right now to guard the airspace near Ukraine and Belarus that has been violated several times, I'll support that. But stop already with the bootlicking and warmongering, please.
Look, whether Russia actually tries attacking a NATO member or not depends on NATO's ability to show it is unified and well prepared.
Russia is already testing our ability to defend ourselves. They regularily violate our airspace on purpose to see how long it takes for our response. They drop drones in the Baltic, fly a squadron of fighters into Estonia. They keep sabotaging and terrorising in NATO. They keep threatening us with nukes if we don't immidiatly stop supplying arms to Ukraine.
This is how they started in Ukraine prior to 2014's incursion of "little green men".
If we aren't ready, then I fear that a few "little green men" have their summer vacation in Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania.
NATO doesn't fear an outright attack. It fears a small scale attack by a Russia that believes we lack the cohesion and means to properly respond. One such small incursion would need to be properly met, that is why NATO needs to be well prepared.
463 Comments
MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social · 87 pts · 4d
Can we not do a surveillance state, pls?
Plus, I doubt anyone on .ml touches grass enough to be a security risk :P
Diva@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 4d
I regret to inform you that not only do I touch grass, i get involved in local politics too. All of my municipal representatives, mayor, state reps know me and my politics. š
JGrffn@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 4d
People attacking the .ml people for organizing while under pressure from the biggest worldwide alt right push in our generation is the funniest shit to me. God forbid the leftists start thinking collectively, you saw what happened to the donald? We're currently fucked by all that chicanery but heavens forbid you start thinking in the opposite direction too much, wouldn't want to get out of the right wing mess that we're living through, least of all if we put in place all those policies my right wing propaganda says are evil. Yeah this is so seruious that we should definitely all quickly jump into being right wing surveillance states to prevent the leftists from doing something about us all eating massive amounts of shit right now.
AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 4d
see that's the funny bit. I've met like 2 self proclaimed tankies irl, all other leftists think they're lame as hell.
they don't organize, they just sit behind keyboards and pretend they are.
as long as they show up and help, I have never met anyone who has a problem with them existing in irl leftists groups on ideology alone. it's when they say shit like Ukraine is full of Nazis, or voting isn't even worth showing up to the polls, or that the uyghur genocide is a lie, then they gotta go.
Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online · 2 pts · 3d
Sharing my experience: I have found that online, "tankie" just gets thrown at any leftist that "goes too far" authoritarian or not.
Do I agree with the Soviet use of tanks to suppress dissident in Europe in the 19th century? In so far as I wasn't there and therefore don't know fuck all about it: no. Am I going to clamor to distance myself from people who are accused of being tankies on Lemmy, especially if the people making the accusations are soc dems or centerists? Nah. Not engaging with that nonsense.
I've never met someone calling themselves that IRL, but that might be because it's more of a youth thing. I agree that there is a lot more cooperation IRL, which is what's important.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -7 pts · 4d
They are authoritarians. They are only against trump because its not their boot thats stomping. They dont fight trump they only fight the left.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 3d
Define "authoritarian" without using the word "authoritarianism" or variations thereof or "totalitarian" or variations thereof.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -4 pts · 3d
https://lemmy.nz/post/22289983
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 3d
I appreciate some attempt at answering it, but I gotta be honest and say it seems pretty dogshit so far. I clicked on the "proof" that "showing any support for Ukriane would get you banned" and the post is inaccesible, the comment is too and the only context I have is some user, who has since received a bunch other moderation strikes, claims that they just wrote "slava ukraini". On what post? No clue. Given how often someone makes up some story about how they were just a uwu smol bean who totally just said "I think we should all be friends" and then the mean evil [outgroup] just BANNED them out of the blue!! Then I have my doubts on that one.
So I looked for some other comment that might showing a large group of ml users declaring their undying love for neoliberal russia, the oligarch putin, and a hatred for all things marxist. In lack of that I clicked on the post that had undeniable PROOF of the admin of .ml declaring his wholehearted support for RUSSIA only to see... A common meme
If this counts as proof that this guy supports everything about Russia, may I then say it is safe to assume you love:
You know, since apparently sharing a meme that indicates any sort of support for a country means you support everything about it. I just want to make sure. And before you respond with "well Russia is bad too" or "whataboutism" or something like that, let me make it clear: I think Russia sucks and I hope the country undergoes major changes. My question here isn't to justify some international action, it's to make sure I understand your logic.
After this point of link-clicking it kind of seemed to me like the links didn't really prove anything or say what they said, and were more just something made by some guy who was butthurt at leftists, so I stopped looking. Please share me any specific link if you have one. Let me know if I missed a "good one" in the aggregation of things that don't describe what they claim to describe.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 4d
There can often be a lot of apathy and de-motivation coming out of
.ml; particularly around elections and harm minimization. The way they talk about voting you would think its as much effort as having a week long strike.We could have better discourse and solidarity.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 4d
Since you're using me as an example, my point is about the enormous efforts and resources some organizations pour into increasing voter turnout and electoral strategies over the time-tested and far more effective strategies of actually struggling and organizing. No, an individual taking a couple hours to vote isn't a problem. It's a problem when an organization makes preparing for, canvassing for, advertising for, and organizing for elections their primary focus. That takes far more effort than even week-long strikes, yet it's a common strategy.
The point isn't that individuals shouldn't spend a couple hours to vote. The point is that voting cannot establish socialism, so organizations that pour a ton of resources into electoral campaigns are wasting valuable resources that could be poured into unionizing, organizing tenants, educating cadre, and growing the organization through on-the-ground struggle.
It's intensely dishonest to frame it as opposition to spending a couple hours voting on election day. The entire political theatrics that surround elections is a months-years long process that takes up mountains of resources better spent on growing and organizing than pinning all hopes on candidates being able to change the system from within.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 4d
Things that will also be happening when doing any other organizing. So taking some time to also have a candidate in primaries to shift the conversation further left is worthwhile. Not to even bring up minimizing harm as a last resort when needed.
So forgive me, but I don't see my framing as dishonest.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 4d
Your framing was that Marxists oppose "sparing a few hours to vote." This is incorrect, and now that I drew attention to this mischaracterization you're pivoting hard from this. Many Marxist orgs do run candidates, such as PSL, but this is never the focus, as resources can always be better spent. You used my comment as an example, so it's important that I set the record straight.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 4d
Your wording, and that of many others in
.mlis ultimately one that is demoralizing those who are also helping on that front and one that is by and large read as against voting, as well as being self defeating. Maybe you personally are not, so perhaps pass some notes to the rest of the crew.BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 3d
"The way they respond to me constantly talking about voting, in a thread with a strawman position on what leftists say about voting" would be a more honest portrayal. But you struggle with honesty.
Heres a comment I wrote about why leftists talk about voting as they do
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · -15 pts · 4d
I've said this time and time again. They do not care about Palestinians either. They want people like Trump in charge, because they're just fascists in a different coat of paint and millions or even tens of millions of casualties is completely fine as long as it harms the reputation of a western country, any of them in fact.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 20 pts · 4d
None of us want Trump in charge. Accusing communists of being fascists or not supporting Palestinians simply because we emphasize the importance of grassroots organizing over trying to change the system from within is dishonest.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · -4 pts · 3d
Yet if you don't vote against fascists, you're legitimizing what they're doing. And voting doesn't mean you need to stop the grassroots organizing. Voting should be only one of many things you do when fighting against fascism, but it should still be one. Every American who did not vote for Harris knowing she was the only candidate with the ability to stop Trump 2.0 from happening, shares part of the blame for everything Trump's done this term. And no, this doesn't absolve the DNC from guilt for giving you a shitty candidate in the first place... But if your options are literally "let fascists win" or "bite the bullet and buy 4 more years to hopefully change things via midterms and primaries", what kind of a sick joke is telling everyone to NOT vote against Trump? That voting against Trump makes them support genocide? Millions upon millions have suffered because of it since January 2025. AS HE PROMISED.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 3d
I did vote against fascists, just not for the DNC, who are also a party of genocidal imperialists. Fascism is not an organic movement, it's what happens when the capitalist class realizes that bourgeois democracy stands to risk their control. It's also why voting can never establish socialism, or prevent fascism, it's the decision of a class that is in control of the state to begin with.
A Harris presidency would have continued to see genocide in Palestine, as Biden did, and would have continued the US Empire as normal. Domestic conditions would likely have been a bit more stable, but the fundamental imperialist system that props up both the DNC and GOP would continue to face the same decay and reaction we see under Trump today.
The only way to actually prevent fascism is to organize at the grassroots, and establish socialism through revolution. You place a horrendously false binary of "let fascists win" or "bite the bullet and buy 4 more years to change things via midterms and the primaries." The former is out of our control to begin with, and the latter is not an actual path forward. The only path forward is revolution, which requires focusing our efforts on building a unified, disciplined, educated working class party that stands opposed to the imperialist system from the outside.
Framing the hours of effort I give every week, every month, every year as "supporting Trump" because I don't take an electoralist focus is absurd. The only way to end the rule of the DNC and GOP is not through trying to reform the DNC from within, but from fighting the system directly.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 3d
Much less than if you vote for them, which is what people want you to do by voting democrat. And by not voting for a fascist you are in fact signalling they don't have your support, which means they are less legitimate. There's a reason why "authoritarian dictators" generally have voter participation in the +90% range and receive the vast majority of votes. It makes them appear more legitimate.
We might be getting into some complicated politics here, but the way voting works is that if you vote for someone, then they get your vote. If you don't, then they don't.
What you're presenting here is also Harris as if she's not just basically Trump, which she is. She ran on committing genocide, pursuing brinksmanship with all of the US' enemies, continuing her support for Israel, deporting more people than trump, giving more money to cops, being less woke, cracking down on protesters, increasing the military budget and all the stuff we don't like when Trump does it.
They were both fascists. Yet here we see something interesting, you introduce a longer-term scope - something beyond the immediate. So why is it, that when we argue voting for the democrats, we can apply a long-term perspective, but when we argue against voting democrat, then suddenly it is all here-and-now? How do you think an alternative is created? Do you think it appears out of thin air? No, it grows slowly. Which is why people vote third party or don't vote democrat (or republican, but that's a given.)
Finally, you make it out to be that the only thing that matters is wether or not someone voted for Kamala. In other words: Voting is everything, nothing else matters. This is such an odd position, yet I see you DNC-dogs take it constantly. When you are told "don't vote for the democrats" or "voting does not matter" then you respond "Oh, so I should just do nothing then??"
People not voting for Harris does not mean they did nothing (and by not voting they have already done far more to work against american fascism), but you assume it does. Telling.
Diva@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 4d
wrong, i absolutely do not want trump in charge. i want the democrats to suck less. i put the 2024 election loss at their feet. i wish they had actually delivered things for people (other than bombs to the genocide) so they didn't eat shit.
the people blaming voters for the democrats obscene incompetence are actively making things worse by refusing to learn anything.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 4d
@boonhet@sopuli.xyz, see I don't think they are being fake here. They have a point here.
Still they are not under siege, so its easy to keep your purity clean and say something is not good enough. Would a total stop to support of Israel be good? Of course. The overall tone is all or nothing; which surprise they got nothing given their tendency to walk away from the table and surrender all possible influence they might have, so they cannot even muster a reduction of aid to Israel.
Its not clear what their superior community engagement has brought to that or other causes. I suppose they could travel to Yemen and enlist in the Houthis' army. For what its worth they did say they are standing up to Israel and taking serious action.
Its a fair point, but also a self fulfilling prophecy. If you walk away from the conversation you lose your position. It is not a surprise that those who left got nothing. Or that when they return they have nothing to build from their previous success. Mamdani is a good example here. The DSA can point to his record for re-election and other DSA can point to him and say lets bring that here; rather than just abstract talking points.
Its okay if
.mlisn't the tip of the spear on the electoral front, but their disparaging is counter productive and damages overall leftist unity.Diva@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 3d
the "walk away from the conversation" framing assumes that conversation is a place where meaningful negotiation happens.
the democratic party has demonstrated repeatedly that left pressure doesn't move them. they take the votes and ignore the demands, then they act as if they were always going to win and never needed you (at least until it's time to cope about a loss, then we're entirely to blame).
doesn't matter if it's for palestine, trans healthcare, minimum wage increase, universal healthcare, more often than not it's the democrats calling the cops on people for speaking up.
i've said before but your vision of 'left unity' reads like attempts to discipline leftists, ie get us to shut up about things that make liberals uncomfortable and precompromise with them.
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 17 pts · 4d
Nah, that's a complete mischaracterization
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 3d
Have you ever actually listened to the people for whom you're so busy constructing a tenement in your brain? Or do you just wait for them to finish talking so you can continue to argue against imaginary positions?
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · -5 pts · 3d
I've had too many discussions with tankies praising genocide to listen to them anymore. Not everyone from .ml is a tankie, but far too many are and tankies are absolutely disgusting human beings. They've constantly shown that people dying is great if it happens for the right cause.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 3d
I've yet to see that happen once. You people keep making these claims and whenever you get asked you make vague gestures about it happening "soooo often, too many times I just can't bear to repeat it!"
It's the worlds laziest copout.
If it happened so often then it wouldn't be that hard to find a few easy quotes to illustrate it. And lets be honest, if it happened so often you make it out to, then you would not be saying this. You would gleefully pull out some fucked up sketchbook to prove how evil these damn tankies are.
In my experience most of people from your instance (and .world) are generally frothing at the mouth racists, and I would not have a hard time to support that claim, if asked. Now I don't have a sketchbook, but I can go looking. I usually just jump into any thread about China or Russia and I'll see a bunch of people out with their calipers.
It's wild how you people just make up shit all the time and people just buy it uncritically, because it's about a group they're preconditioned to hate.
Edit: funny how theres always radio silence as soon as one asks for proof for the preposterous claims
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
Absolutely nonsense, communists don't praise genocide. Share receipts or stop the blood libel.
catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works · -9 pts · 3d
All the .ml users replying to you:
"I don't want trump in power!" Proceeds to actively help trump and the GOP win elections at every opportunity
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 3d
Struggling directly against the capitalist state at every opportunity, on the ground, is "actively helping Trump and the GOP win elections?" What kind of nonsense double-speak is this?
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3d
Okay this might be difficult to understand, but the people who didnt vote for Kamala because of her many issues also didnt vote for Trump due to his many issues.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 4d
Sorry, I'm a certified grass-toucher.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 20 pts · 4d
In a war of memes and information bubbles, people not touching grass is a security risk
Diva@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 4d
crazy how the main audience for this kind of two minutes hate thread for .ml is always zionists
jimmy90@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3d
lol
The whole ml user base is public knowledge too so you won't mind us quickly checking how much they support Russia and use it against them
ml's are natural comedians
catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works · -14 pts · 3d
Everything I don't agree with is woke, I mean zionist.
Diva@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 3d
the guy is an endless fountain of hasbara, plus you'll call everyone to the left of joe biden a tankie, glass houses
andz@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 2d
Wild comment. It's woke to dislike genocide now? If we rearrange your words, they make a little bit more sense; "I don't agree with anything zionist."
The word woke doesn't mean anything anymore, so we can let that one slide.
ivan@piefed.social · 8 pts · 4d
I wouldnāt consider folks from .ml to be dangerous tho - they are simply a book club that is being mean to people on internet.
Right-wingers, who donāt touch grass, on the other hand, are far more dangerous - just remember QAnon, this shit was started by some 4chan troll.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 4d
The US State certainly seems to think communist organizers are dangerous.
SirHaxalot@nord.pub · 10 pts · 4d
Ironically I donāt think anyone considered 4chan very dangerous until the whole QAnon shit.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · -4 pts · 4d
It is called "Memetic warfare" or "5th-generation warfare" and it is as real as MOABs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-generation_warfare
https://www.lineofdeparture.army.mil/Journals/Gray-Space/Archive/2026-Edition/5th-Generation-Warfare-Already-at/
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 3d
And you think the people arguing against the establishment position are the people with enough resources to do that a significant scale?
impairedimperator@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 4d
Eh, I think there's a decent amount of intellectual overlap between authoritarian right wingers and authoritarian left wingers. They will both prioritize state control over people.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 3d
Define "authoritarian" without using variations of the word or variations of "totalitarian".
impairedimperator@lemmy.zip · -10 pts · 3d
Three criteria:
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 3d
You messed up the "don't use variations of the word" step.
What do you mean by
"Established authorities" and
"conventionalism"?
How does a "high degree" of submission look different from a "low degree"?
What constitutes "aggressive" defence in relation to regular defence and why is it definitionally authoritarian to defend something "aggressively"?
impairedimperator@lemmy.zip · -9 pts · 3d
I don't think you understand the word totalitarian or it's variations. You probably understand authoritarianism, but you have a vested interest in not understanding it.
Try doing some reading, authoritarian personality is well studied.
theauthoritarians.org
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · -4 pts · 4d
This. I was going to ask if MAGA are dangerous.
Information bubbles are dangerous. Tribalism is dangerous.
The antidotes are inclusivity and critical thinking
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
Right, and you're definitely not in any sort of echo chamber.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · -10 pts · 3d
"This surely can't be..." i though while clicking on your profile
"...@lemmy.ml"
Welp, name checks out ig, i didn't realize it was a troll
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 3d
Lemmy.ml is more broadly federated than piefed.social, which also has a head developer that made lists of leftists to permaban. Being a communist on the English-speaking internet is already a dissenting view, we cannot escape non-communist viewpoints like non-communists can. Thus, echo-chambers to actually exist must affirm widespread positions while shutting out any dissent, which in the west means liberalism.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 3d
I, too, love to dismiss people based on my preconceived notions of their character rather than what they write.
DegradationDenial@feddit.nl · -1 pts · 3d
Thatās something I actually like about .ml it allows me to find literature on important current topics without the capitalist mindset, thatās so hard to come by. On the other hand the blind following of concepts like Leninās democratic centralism and Maoās defence of state oppression, makes it difficult to convince with, along with the silent support for capitalist autocracies like the Kremlin and Xi.
Iām currently reading the Red Book from Mao and there some parts that are needlessly dangerous that use crusaders logic to defend atrocities for a promised future.
Diva@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
this is exactly why i was originally drawn to browse the hexbear.net/c/news. living in the US the corporate run media maintains pretty tight control over narratives. i prefer to know as much as i can of the entire picture and decide for myself.
none of the orgs i'm in are even dem cent. it's a framework for organizing which i think fits a particular type of moment, but is not without its issues outside of those moments.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 3d
"blind following" Yeah alright, sorry for reading something, relating it to what I know, investigating its claims, find them to be well-founded and the arguments to stand up to reason, and therefore I decide to incorporate it into my worldview. I suppose a much better method would be to read falsehoods written by someone the CIA decided to fund or whoever you want.
DegradationDenial@feddit.nl · -1 pts · 3d
Have you read the Red Book?
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3d
Maos quotations?
DegradationDenial@feddit.nl · 0 pts · 3d
Yes
lennybird@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2d
Just to spare you some sanity as I've told others -- and you're probably already well aware -- most of these tankies who have a hard-on for and simp on behalf of Eastern Authoritarian genocidal apologists have a tendency to be a part of the 50 Cent Party or some derivative troll farm. In other words, they literally get paid to post comments; meanwhile Lemmy itself has limited control over sock-puppet account duplication. Just know there are sane people on here and don't waste your time too much. Stay on message in the first comment or two and let them run their mouths if they wish, but many of them get a paycheck from dragging you into comments (if aren't actual zealots themselves). You never know. though -- it could just come down to them thinking, "Hammer & Sickle cool!" or something.
I'm all for exploring other ideologies; but that tends to stop short of ends-justify-means utopic fantasy whereby many are oppressed; when there are double-standards when geopolitically-expedient for the likes of what is occurring in Gaza, but conveniently not for what is happening in Ukraine, to Uyghurs, to Tibetan Buddhist monks, to Hong Kong democratic protesters, to Taiwanese sovereignty in blatant imperial conquest.
DegradationDenial@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 2d
Thanks ā¤ļø
Yeah it would definitely help to know who downvoted or upvoted some blatantly heinous comments.
Having now been fodder to a couple of the 50c army Iām now much less inclined towards the label of Socialism so Iām not sure for the overall motives other than Cult purity.
Iāll be looking for a mbin or piefed instance now š
https://rdctd.pro/defense-against-cult-control-tactics/
lennybird@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2d
Sadly I fear that's part of their intention (we further cannot rule out far-right nazis masquerading as leftists in order to muddy the well).
Though I completely get your concerns. Have you looked much into Social Democracy?
DegradationDenial@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 2d
I take it you havenāt seen my red rose profile picture š
But no not as literature, I thought Iād get the foundation of Marx but took a detour on Mao do you have any recommendations?
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 3d
My hobby is gardening. I am involved in local politics. I do Union organising as well. I'm sorry your fantasy doesn't align with reality, maybe if you vote harder, abduct more unwilling Ukrainians to the meat grinder, or bomb more brown people it might.
Malica@lemmy.zip · -6 pts · 4d
At most they go jump in the meat grinder for Russia
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · -12 pts · 4d
who do you think are the people recruited for a terrorist attacks here and there? they are not from taylor swift fanclub. most of them won't go further than bitching on the internet from their parents basement and will never be a problem in real life, but 1 in 1000 is all it takes.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 3d
Considering the people who have tried to shoot Trump so far, you seem to be a far better candidate for recruitment than I do.
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 51 pts · 4d
When you read the First They Came poem as a guide instead of as a warning. It's fucking wild man.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -23 pts · 4d
MLs are pro violent suppression of any dissenting opinion they have no leg to stand on. The first they came poem is completely irrelevant here. Theres no evidence to suggest monitoring Russian foreign agents leading to anything remotely similar to the Nazi machine.
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 32 pts · 4d
The increasing rise of Fascism in America and many parts of Europe and you think puting Communist on "a list" for "security" has nothing to do with what that poem was talking about?
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 3d
There is a very vocal part of ml users, who are not Communist or socialist, but anti West and pro-China or pro-Russia.
Point that Chinese workers are - according to Chinese labour law and Chinese statistics - exploited and work on average more than 6 days a week, and you'll get banned (https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/15/14/11409).
Point that soviet Russia was imperialist (or quote Mao saying that) and you will get banned.
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 3d
I would ask you; have you ever listened to an MLs response to these things? I could do that if you want.
But, I think you're confusing the moderation of an instance to maintain intelligent discourse with a conclusion of "they are denying facts"
I'll give an analogy. If it helps.
Do you think a person posting "black crime statistics" in any "left leaning" sub would be taken seriously? Would that sub explain to every individual person the relationship of poverty, the relationship of policing black neighborhoods, the relationship of the for profit prison systems? The war on drugs, etc etc etc.
No, they would offer resources to these things. But the sub is not meant to be a place where "technically" style Ben Shapiro types are given a voice. They get banned.
Those types of people would not be welcome in any "liberal" space. They are not there to engage in conversation. They are there to say "black people are criminals".
This is the same type of perspective that most MLs have on China or otherwise. It is not that we have a cult like view of China or other historically socialist projects.
So, yeah, maybe you got banned. But you were probably the 1000th person posting "statistics" that was never looking to hear the response.
Maybe you were. Maybe you were sincere in asking. But an ML run instance is not the place to learn that. It's a place for discourse and criticism between people that already have a certain level of agreement in how they analyze the world (dialectical materialism being that method). At least on the level of being able to understand why the equivalent of "black on black crime" is conservative garbage.
If you got this far. I'll gladly address what you linked. And my analogy is not 1to1. I have major criticisms of China when it comes to labor. But, we need to establish a level of understanding if you are actually interested in another persons perspective.
If not. That's fine. But, you're not in .ml. I am trying to have a good faith interpretation of your points. You will get that from good people from .ml OUTSIDE of .ml.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip · -5 pts · 3d
You missed my point.
The .ml echochamber you're arguing for, is focused on being anti-western, not being Communist, not on improving workers rights or life standard. And your post again proves that. You really shouldn't call yourself Communists, you are not. Empty headed academics at best.
It could be not the users (I have an account on .ml) who are at fault, but the mods, but that does shape what you are allowed to think and say. And that makes all it dangerously tribal, homogenized to a point where it's indistinguishable from USSR and China cult to an external observer.
Do you know what the worst part is? How .ml instance is moderated, how the discussions are there allowed to shape, they alienate and polarize against Communism people from EU and USA. That is literally what Operation Gladio was expected to achieve.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 3d
I donāt know what kind of communism you think there is that doesnāt oppose western imperialism, support the Chinese socialist project, or applaud the damage that Russia has done to NATO. All of these positions materially improve the condition of the global working class.
Like, what do you think communism is, if it isnāt opposition to the global system of capitalism that is destroying the world and murdering millions of people?
And also, I hope you note that my language is precise. I say āoppose western imperialism,ā not āhate everything about the west.ā And āsupport Chinese socialism,ā not āChina can do no wrong.ā And āapplaud opposition to NATO,ā not āI want to suck Putinās dick.ā Marxists are concerned with the nuances and complexities of material reality, we try to avoid emotionally reactive stances that try to sort the world into good vs evil.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip · -8 pts · 3d
https://spectrejournal.com/one-should-not-camouflage-capitalist-and-imperialist-china-as-socialist/
Yeah, I don't think I want to talk to anyone who applauds any wars. And you're literally proving my point of being anti western garbage instead of workers unite communist.
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 3d
I don't think I missed your point. But we have shifted the goal post. Your comment was about very specific points related to criticism of China and labor conditions and why something like that would get you banned.
My reply attempted to be more general around those specifics. I was attempting to give you a perspective on why "stating facts" would be considered bad faith in a certain perspective. Hence the analogy I gave.
So I may have misdirected the conversation unintentionally. That wasn't my intention.
I am not even necessarily defending .ml specifically. I don't spend a majority of my time on that instance. You can see my post history. So, l can concede to being too defensive there. I should say I'm more defending what .ml means for ML (Marxist Leninist). I personally have mostly encountered cridge posts (usually hyperbolic) with good comment discourse there.
My intention was to explain the perspective of a literal Marxist Leninist and why the examples you gave in your original comment would be considered, in any leftist circle, a bad faith argument based on the INTENTION of them. The point of the statistics is to not ask "why are labor conditions like this" but to CONCLUDE that China is some corruption of leftism and "not real socialism". It's not meaningful in why it's being brought up.
No ML is worried about addressing the labor conditions of China. But we aren't interested in someone bringing up labor conditions in China who's only reason to discuss is to reach a conclusion that is in favor to the narrative that is the larger problem of American Imperialism and pro capitalist propaganda.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 3d
So, are you obtuse or a troll?
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 3d
ThirdConsul is a nationalist. So, neither, just someone that will grab Mao's incorrect and ultraleftist take on the USSR being "social imperialist" while at the same time opposing socialism in China at all periods. ThirdConsul grabs whatever quote is meaningfully convenient, regardless of whether or not they actually agree with the underlying analysis.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de · -9 pts · 3d
No, they just see what your community stands for.
If you aren't like that, you really should move instances.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
There literally isn't and you literally won't.
But surely you must have overwhelming amounts of proof for these claims, which you can readily present, since it is so common. I mean if it is so common as you make it out to be, then it should be probable without any effort at all really.
In my general experience what happens is someone like you comes in, says some bullshit, gets challenged on it, you throw a tantrum, after about 20 comments you finally do a brief Google, whereafter you pull up a source you've only skimmed yourself, you then receive context to the source and this makes you even more pissy to the point you drop the act and just throw out some variation of bigotry, then you get banned. Then you think "oh wow, you get banned just for mentioning Tiananmen Square!" even though you dont. You get banned for behaving like an asshole, like you do most places.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de · -2 pts · 3d
Even the .ml comments in this comment section disprove your statement.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 3d
Odd how your response failed to have any concrete examples.
Which ones? Quote the ones that specifically argue against socialism and for Putin and neoliberal Russia as an unequivocal good.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -12 pts · 3d
Yes i dont think a poem that lists several groups of people being targeted by the state is the same as someone saying they want to disclose people who have been working to undermine Europe on behalf of russia.
This has nothing to do with communists they were not mentioned. MLs are only a subsect of communists and they are mentioned for deepthroating Putin's boot not because they're communists.
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 3d
I really would love to understand where this idea that "Marxist Leninist = Putin supporter"
Marxist Leninist (myself included) hate Putin. Putin is literally the embodiment of western neoliberalism in post Soviet Russia. He was literally installed and supported by western aligned oligarchs and capitalist within Russia.
I really am curious where you get this idea. I'd love receipts. I really hope it's not just "MLs criticize NATO". I really really hope it's not just a binary view of the world like that. I swear people view the world like it's a football match.
Do you think Russia is still run by MLs?
sephallen@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 3d
Woah, I have never seen a Marxist Leninist on here criticise Putin before. Fair play.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 3d
Why would we not criticize Putin? He's a reactionary capitalist. Our critique of Putin isn't that he's some supernatural evil like liberal analysis often circles back to, but instead based on his actual, material position. Pushing back on liberal analysis doesn't mean Putin is "our guy" or anything of the sort. First and foremost, we oppose the imperialist system headed by the US, and NATO which exists to protect it.
Any critical support for Russia extends to their right to self-determination from NATO encirclement, and their opposition to western imperialism, not to their reactionary, bourgeois society nor Putin at the top. The dissolution of the Soviet Union was a tremendous human tragedy, one that directly led to the current war today.
sephallen@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 3d
I'm happy to hear that.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 3d
Really?
sephallen@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 3d
Really.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -11 pts · 3d
Don't play dumb to try and waste my time. You know exactly where it comes from and you're on the ML instance so your feed is full of pro russia shit.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 3d
Marxist-Leninists despise NATO, for the genocidal terror inflicted by its member-states around the world and its position as a coalition of imperialist powers. Marxist-Leninists also despise Putin and United Russia, and believe socialism to be a necessity for Russia in the future that the nationalists will not accept willingly.
The major difference is that Marxists are materialists. We don't believe Putin is some embodiment of supernatural evil trying to eat babies and conquer the world, we seek materialist explanations for the conditions and analyze them dialectically. This puts our analysis at odds with those who see the world similarly to Marvel movies, as conflict between the forces of good and evil.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 3d
Well.. That, and the fact that it is a nazi institution full of nazis that put nazis back into power in West germany 2
Not that the history of an institution condems it completely, but it certainly does not help when it continues to be a nazi institution
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 3d
So you have no examples? Like, you don't even have to link it. You can literally just tell me an example. I'm just asking for the bare minimum here mate.
My feed is full of Linux memes and pro Palestine posts. I'm not the charactercher you've constructed in your head.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -7 pts · 3d
https://lemmy.nz/post/22289983
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 3d
So you can't prove it? Alright
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -2 pts · 3d
https://lemmy.nz/post/22289983
Diva@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 3d
literally zero evidence of this other than a lot of loud people with hurt feelings online.
'saying they want to disclose'
here's what OP thinks
i'm a trans anarchist who happened to land on this server out of sheer fucking happenstance almost 4 years ago, part of why i havent bothered to leave is because it's always the most overt fascists getting really mad about a fucking posting server.
Holytimes@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 3d
It's just the Nazi bar problem.
Even if only one person at the bar is a Nazi, if you keep going everyone is going to call you a Nazi as well once the bar is known for being on with Nazis.
As long as your ok with being associated with the thing the place is known for then it doesn't really matter.
The vocal group of a place is it's face no matter how big or small that group is.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
Right, and there's no one who supports Putin on .ml.
For a group of people who like to fellate themselves talking about "nuance" you people struggle with anyone who has a deeper analysis than "Putin evil, Russians are orcs, Russia is Mordor, Europe is full of elves, zelensky is Aragorn". It makes you see red and go "OH SO YOU LOVE PUTIN???? WOWWWW"
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 3d
š§¢š§¢š§¢
lennybird@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 3d
Ask the typical tankie from ml or hexbear whether they agree that Putin should face his criminal charges at the ICC and is just as much a war criminal as Bibi and that they were wrong to invade Ukraine and wage an attempted genocide, and whether China and North Korea are also complicit in genocide for supporting Russia's illegal invasion. I bet the majority dodge the straightforward question with what should be a straightforward answer.
Don't be dismayed by conglomeration of either young and naive kool-aid drinkers, or the actual foreign operatives (for which we know have major online troll farms).
EDIT: Case in point, lol.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 3d
Russia is engaged in a war with a near peer, Israel is committing an extermination campaign on Palestine using stolen land. I have no love for Putin, reactionary nationalist that he is, but to equate the Russo-Ukrainian war with the genocide of Palestine is to make a mockery of genocide. Further, such a blanket statement erases the plight of the people of the Donbass region, who have been at war with Kiev since 2014 and who want to join the Russian Federation. The Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics have just as much a right to self-determination as Palestinians do.
Condemn Putin all you want, I have no love for him as I said. Hang him if you will. But don't undermine the actual plight of the many decades of genocide committed against the Palestinian people to "own the tankies." You have a history of undermining the plight of Palestinians, this isn't a new development for you, it's a repeated pattern.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
Well its not one question, its a bunch lumped together.
Sure
No. Israel is enacting an actual genocide against a defenceless population, the genocide has been going on since 1947 and has drastically accelerated these last few years.
While there are many accusations of genocide against Russia, its pretty clear (as has been thoroughly investigated by international observers - whom have been allowed to investigate, unlike in Israel) that, while there are civilian casualties, the goal of the russian military is to win a war against Ukraine, not exterminate a people.
Honestly, this one is tough. I feel like it was wrong, but I understand why Russia did it - the NATO posturing, the brinksmanship, the constant breaches of treaties... At a certain point one has to ask what else Russia could do. Now I know how you're going to take this "OH SO YOU SUPPORT RUSSIA YOU CONDONE AHHH" but really if you actually read what I write, then that's not what I am saying. I am saying, given russias position, russias interest in remaining a sovereign country, the threat against Russia (perceived or real), the situation Russia was in was one where the only outcome given to it was invasion. Its not like it did not try diplomacy first.
Wait, aren't you the zionist who couldn't say Israel is committing a genocide? A classic zionist tactic is cheapening the word by using it to describe any hostile action. Im sorry, but between Russia and Ukraine, Russia is not the one who has systematically pursued an ethnic minority, banned the language of that minority, bombed the fuck out of areas with that minority and all that stuff.
Since I don't see how Russia is committing a genocide (because genocide isn't just "when you are at war" if that were the case then the Native Americans committed genocide against colonists in the 17- and 1800's. I hope we can both see how ridiculous that is.) They are giving support to Russia, so they are complicit. Id like to know what makes the invasion of Ukraine less legal than other invasions before I agree on the "illegal" part.
Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is A Foreigner.
This refrain of yours is so odd to me, because I never see you invokenit with people you agree with, despite the fact there's also massive pro-us-regime botfarms.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 3d
Marxist-Leninists support the rights of nations to self-determination and the working class to resist oppression by any means necessary. In the event that nations establish sovereignty, and the working classes establish socialism, we also support their right to defend both. The "dissent" we support suppressing is fascism, capitalism, colonialism, imperialism, etc. Accusing leftists of being foreign agents is a time-tested mechanism the Nazis and other groups like the US have used to squash labor organizing and decolonizing efforts.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -10 pts · 3d
Thanks for the link to tankie grokipedia. Very funny stuff.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 3d
It's a Marxist-Leninist wiki, and the pages I linked are just the ML positions on what constitutes a nation and what we mean by self-determination. It isn't even something like a current or historical event that might draw contention, it's just an explanation of what Marxists believe theoretically.
AVincentInSpace@pawb.social · 1 pts · 2d
It calls anyone to the right of Mao Zedong a fascist. It calls Wikipedia a propaganda outlet. I don't think it's a reliable source.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
If you really want to own us and laugh at us then you should consider reading the texts in cowbees introductionary reading list that would really own him and be so funny!
Fizz@lemmy.nz · -4 pts · 2d
Judging by how cowbee plays very loose with facts and is incredibility ideologically bias I will not waste my time reading their propaganda list. Ive already read enough commie theory and its just not convincing. Its a child's view of the world in my opinion.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 2d
I don't "play very loose with facts," it would be great if you could provide an example we could talk about but as it stands that's needless slander. Further, calling it a "propaganda list" is a bit silly, like the links to Prolewiki for the Marxist-Leninist theory of nations and self a determination, the reading list I made is not a history list or anything, just works from major Marxists and Marxist-Leninists to explain the 3 major components of Marxism-Leninism: dialectical and historical materialism, the Marxist view of economics, and scientific socialism.
There aren't really facts to dispute here, that's like calling someone recommending Plato's The Republic untrustworthy for understanding Plato. That's pretty silly IMO.
JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 3d
Ehm, nato?
Not in Russia, but in actual sovereign countries like the recent Venezuela shitshow (Vietnam, etc. - oh no, communism). Yes, I'm not worried about a capitalist organisation attacking a capitalist country, but we're still supporting a corrupt system heavily influenced by the US.
lennybird@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 3d
Don't feel bad about being downvoted. This community is a hotspot for tankie brigades who have a thirst for authoritarians, Putin and Xi's wiwi.
m532@lemmy.ml · 44 pts · 4d
The nazis are mask off these days
fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com · 8 pts · 3d
Time for heads off
58008@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 4d
Lists of individual people, famously a tool of the liberator class š
testfactor@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 4d
I dislike the lemmy.ml user base as much or more than the next guy.
I think that Europe has criminally underfunded its defense for a long time, and that they need to bulk up considering the existential Russian threat
Yet despite all that, I feel like the real asshat in this thread is the OP.
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 4d
The only thing more annoying than .ml cringe posters are people that make their entire argument ".ml of course".
I forget I'm from .ml most the time. Until I get a "oh you would say that as a .ml". It's pretty helpful for telling me that a conversation will go nowhere.
VoteNixon2016@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 35 pts · 4d
It's astrology but for the fediverse
Your Sun is in .ml, meaning you're fundamentally opinionated and fierce. Incompatible with .world, and you can tolerate dbzer0s in group settings, but don't work well together one-on-one.
B1tch_Pudding@lemmy.zip · -11 pts · 4d
I don't really see any of you breaking ranks or ever pumping the brakes on a dogpile so it kind of stands. There's not really anything to learn from people who eschewed all individuality or basic self restraint just to make sure they never get verbally bullied by Nazis again
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 4d
I rest my case.
B1tch_Pudding@lemmy.zip · -12 pts · 4d
We both knew what this was. we didn't comment on this trash meme to talk to eachother
verdigris@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 4d
Bro wtf are you talking about
B1tch_Pudding@lemmy.zip · -14 pts · 4d
Couldn't read two sentences :( reading is hard
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · -15 pts · 4d
yeah, i forget i am a nazi most of the time. then i look at the mirror and notice i am wearing a nazi uniform š
wheezy@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
This you?
Sharkticon@lemmy.zip · 38 pts · 3d
Username Kraut posting some gestapo shit eh?
Diva@lemmy.ml · 34 pts · 4d
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -22 pts · 4d
I don't get paid sis.
The intense joy I experience upon witnessing .ml users being dragged into the 3 letter agency tickle chambers are a reward in and of itself.
Edit: it is a joke, like I assume my perceived CIA salary is
echolalia@lemmy.ml · 28 pts · 4d
Celebrating 3 letter agencies abducting folks with political opinions different than yours.
Cool and normal. Very freedom. Much democracy. Wow.
Diva@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 3d
A majority of us democrats would prefer living a military junta to anything approaching socialism, this user is a foremost example of that
RidderSport@feddit.org · 6 pts · 3d
You aware he's likely Danish? US exceptionalism at work even in this argument
Diva@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 3d
he's salivating at the thought of turning his perceived political enemies over to the alphabet boys; not a huge leap to identify him as 'spiritually american'
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -8 pts · 3d
Sistah, you accused me of receiving payment from the CIA. I assumed it was a joke and of course I am gonna play in on that joke. C'mon now.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 3d
"Hahaha I hope you get tortured to death" Yeah great "joke" my guy
Diva@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 3d
It was less a joke and more an observation that you are acting more invested in defending us empire than the people actually getting paid to do that.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 3d
Danes are the biggest dickriders of the US around. Even after all Trump did they still talk about being the US' "closest ally." Denmark is completely bought in on the US propaganda.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de · -2 pts · 3d
So one politicians that says a stupid statement immediately means the entire country it bought by the US?
Wow, racism much.
chloroken@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 3d
Do you know what the word race means? Do you think Danes are a race?
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 3d
No, the fact that that is the general refrain amongst politicians, especially the prime minister - the leader of the country - AND the fact that Denmark continues to cooperate with the US as much as possible, including getting American bases on Denmark proper, is why I consider the country to be completely subsumed by the US.
Sorry you cheap dunk sucked.
njm1314@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 3d
Really not dodging that old "feddit is for fascists" moniker are you?
Diva@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 3d
explain to me how you're different from the republicans again?
cause ur kinda making my case for me in this whole thread
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -9 pts · 3d
The SES (Soil Erosion Service) is gonna stand at the end of your bed and tickle your feet with a feather if have them outside your blanket tonight.
Send this message to 15 other .ml users to avoid the SES tickling your feet.
DudleyMason@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 3d
Ah, the ol Schrodinger's Nazi trick. It was just a joke. As soon as how fucked up it is was called out.
chloroken@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 3d
Nothing screams "I am mentally stable" like expressing joy for torturing people.
Least psychotic liberal, folks. "Wahhh .ml is violent" shut the fuck up, loser.
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -4 pts · 3d
Calm down.
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 3d
I butt heads with .ml users semi-frequently and even I think that none of what your wrote here is funny, dude.
A404@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 3d
not funny
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 3d
Fuck off, fascist.
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net · 28 pts · 4d
MLs are obnoxious, but this ain't it.
Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online · 27 pts · 3d
Damn, just become a cop or join the military or something. Say it with your whole chest. If you want to live a life of violence against your fellow workers, don't be a coward and outsource that shit.
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 4d
Europeans making lists of "undesirables" I am shocked /s.
Something something first as tragedy second as farce.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 4d
It was one of George Orwell's favorite hobbies, after all.
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 4d
Well what else was he supposed to do with all that free time between writing his mediocre books and being a sex pest.
limer@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 4d
I never liked his books
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 4d
I'm an outspoken critic of his sex pestness.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip · -2 pts · 3d
Yeah, it's surprisingly catchy in activity. Try to name your son Mohamed in Xinjiang.
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 2d
I know a few. This insinuation really falls on its face when you have experience with Xinjiang beyond the atrocity propaganda.
Also is this the famous whataboutism I hear people crying about so often?
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip · -2 pts · 2d
https://www.xinjiang.gov.cn/xinjiang/gfxwj/201606/fb68e69086f742b8bbd76c6a85d7160f.shtml?eqid=8189612e000287340000000264784761
How can I tell you don't. Policy asking for list of religious names to be given to public security beuaruo, to be used to reject names of newborn children. Can't have more Chinese source.
Well, you started by calling Europeans nazis. And that now you cry whataboutism tells me you did not mean the first /s.
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 2d
That policy is about standardising the transliteration and data entry of names? I still know more than one person who self identifies as Mohammed(ē©ē½é»å¾·) [Surname]. So I'm simply going to take them at their word. Also interesting you picked out specifically the security bureau and avoided the fact it was a list terms compiled by religious leaders and others for all relevant agencies including health, family planning and more.
Whataboutism isn't real it's simply fun to poke fun at the people who use accusations of "whataboutism" as a shield to avoid comparative arguments by asking about it in that manner when the opportunity presents itself.
I also didn't start by calling Europeans Nazis I started by making a joke about Europeans making lists of undesirables, the Nazis is only one instance of that long held tradition (especially if you want to count EuroAmerikans and their escapades during and after WW2, McCarthyism, etc). Also I very much meant the /s I am not shocked at all by it.
protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -2 pts · 4d
russians also have a long list
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 4d
Ok? So? Good for you or I'm sorry for your loss?
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -4 pts · 4d
listed
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
Did you know Denmark was the main producer of CSAM between '69 and '84?
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
I'm sure PET will appreciate you focusing on the real enemy: leftists online. They will be so happy they only kick you twice in the face before contorting your body in a fucked up position for a couple of hours. You might even sue them in the human rights Court, as they are every week. You have to provide your own lawyer though.
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 4d
Thank you for the notification obergruppenfuhrer I look forward to your attempt to extradite me from China for the crime of being Chinese.
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -14 pts · 4d
obergruppenfuhrer?
how does scribbling down a name warrant a comparison to Nazi Germany?
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 4d
You don't see how making lists of "undesirables" to enact "justice" upon is reminiscent?
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -7 pts · 4d
Bro.
I haven't written anything down. You made your own post history in a lemmy instance known for being pro-Russia/anti-Ukraine.
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 4d
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -13 pts · 4d
How does it? Simple journalism.
HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 4d
Yeah I really hate that Lenin, Stalin, and Mao did that.
Oh, sorry, we were talking about nazis. Them too.
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · -9 pts · 4d
said tankie, the guardian of the oppressed, the protector of democracy š
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca · -9 pts · 4d
The irony of a Chinese person making this statement is sending me.
gualudengren@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 4d
Not particularly ironic if you're not an orientalist. I hope it "sends" you into some introspection and research.
HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 4d
I know you tankies love to pretend otherwise in order to paint any criticism of your flavor of authoritarianism as racism, but:
CCP ā China ā the Chinese people
Is it possible GreenBeard was being racist? Definitely. But to jump to that because they appear to be criticizing the CCP is... transparently ridiculous.
DudleyMason@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
Actually kinda surprised I had to scroll this far to see the mask off racism that underpins so much of liberal "thought".
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 23 pts · 3d
First comes the making of the lists, then comes the rounding up of the people on the lists. You need camps to hold them in unless there is another, last solution. /s
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 3d
"I think we should people that disagree with me on a list!!!" <- The champion of democracy
starman2112@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 3d
Holy fuck no let's not do an authoritarianism to own the tankies lmao
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 2d
Fascist repression of communists is nothing new to us, historically it's extremely common.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2d
Historically, repression of communism is almost entirely the whole point of fascism.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 2d
Absolutely.
catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 3d
Uuuuh, .ml users are cancer but this is not the solution
SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 3d
I'm a Gemini, actually. But OP can kick rocks regardless ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 4d
Liberals love being bootlickers for state violence. Classic.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 4d
Frauds love leading impressionable people to believe that Democrats are worse than Republicans.
dreamy@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 4d
Genuine question: What could the Democratic Party do that would make you stop supporting them? Because clearly, a literal genocide isn't it.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 3d
When our progressive movement, either DSA has a full split as well as having more availability (same for PSL) then there is no longer a practical utility for the democratic party. Until then its them or crusader republicans doing double time.
You are misunderstanding blue no matter who as being pro dem rather than a last resort. And it continues to be one because MLs just want a total surrender of the electoral front.
dreamy@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
My question was not "What could happen that would make you stop supporting them", it was "What could they (as in the party itself) do that would make you stop supporting them".
I actually don't. If you're a leftist, your electoral front should definitely not be represented by the Democratic Party. And it doesn't matter that it's a "last resort", it has never worked and it will continue to fail.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 3d
Like I said. not all of us have the privileged of an alternative and we have to make due with what is around us to live to fight another day.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3d
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · -12 pts · 4d
Genuine question, what would republicans do for you to not shill for them? Because the thing you claim to care about, literal genocide, isn't one of them.
dreamy@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 4d
"DUUHHHH UR A REPUBLIKAAN DUHHH" š
Great rebuttal jackass. You're really showcasing the intellectual integrity of an average Democrat. Are you going to answer the question or not?
Holytimes@sh.itjust.works · -3 pts · 3d
He has a point tho... If both sides commit genocide and you find a genocide under one side unacceptable then you should find a genocide from the other side also unacceptable.
By your own logic if you don't move to a third party then you are in fact pro genocide.
And genocides have happened under both parties control. Repeatedly in fact though out history.
So are you just pro genocide when it's in line with your values or something?
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 3d
Nobody in this thread supports the republicans, it was a deliberately bad-faith attempt to declare any opposition to the DNC to be support for the GOP.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 3d
And what makes you think they don't?
Should I assume you fuck donkeys?
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · -12 pts · 4d
Weird how you don't like the inverse of that question. Shocking, really.
dreamy@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 4d
The answer is I don't shill for them. But what I do know with you American supremacists is that upon me saying this, you will instantly enter into pedanticism in order to dodge the question I just asked. Prove me right please :)
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 4d
Ah I just noticed your account age and skimmed your history. Won't be making the mistake again of thinking there's a 5% chance you're not a bad faith actor.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · -12 pts · 4d
Ok and I'm so sure this is good faith on your part! As long as republicans are worse than democrats, I am forced to vote for democrats in almost every context. This is not a real choice, it is the only moral one. I am not someone who can pretend taking a symbolic stand is more important than actually minimizing harm.
These conversations are literally never useful though, because you would rather commit seppuku than acknowledge that third parties have little to no chance of victory. Now, prove me right!
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 3d
Answer the question.
Also, what are you even talking about? Where have they shilled for the republicans?
antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 4d
They are two sides of the same coin.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · -15 pts · 4d
I understand that you want people to believe Democrats are the same or worse than Republicans. This is the lie you keep pushing constantly and is why I'm replying to you
antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 4d
Demonstrably they fight for all the same people and none of them are you or me. Dems are just Republicans with pride flags. They support every single evil thing just the same but mildly better optics (sometimes).
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · -17 pts · 4d
Right, this is the lie you're spreading. Democrats are objectively far better in every aspect. The fact that they partially are terrible people can never change the facts. The US electoral system all but guarantees third parties losing. No amount of lying can change that. If you care about any vulnerable people, Democrats are your only option 99% of the time, which is another thing that lying cannot wash away.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
Its crazy how you understand how to fix things, yet still dont make it a priority to do so.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 3d
You are a big fan of the phrase bLuE mAgA so there won't be any input of value to be had here.
RVGamer06@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 3d
.ml is what it is, but watchlists ain't my cup of tea either
mirshafie@europe.pub · 14 pts · 3d
Edit: Is this the fucking Three Arrows guy?
Original comment: Yeah nah making lists of people based on politics is and should be illegal for obvious reasons. I mean, I know that this isn't honored and that I'm 100% on a couple of lists, but it's just a bad idea to normalize it.
Making apologies for Russia or the USA is really stupid though.
pleiades@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 2d
mfw i joined the wrong instance of some niche social media so now i deserve to get put on a list of undesirables and be pre-crimed
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 4d
Neo-McCarthyism. As usual, the anti-war activists are going to be labeled "enemies of the state," foreign actors, etc. It's already happening to BreakThrough News, the DSA, PSL, etc.
antonim@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 3d
Putting aside the fact that OP's idea is a vile edgy fantasy, this "antiāwar activism" is frequently a veneer for this narrative: US is effectively solely at fault, Russia's invasion is justified, the west should stop aiding Ukraine and let Russia win. This is the position I've seen from .ml users.
And it's not easy to not see that as indeed being proāRussian.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
I linked 3 statements, from the DSA, Breakthrough News, and PSL, on the west's position with respect to the Russo-Ukrainian war. All 3 draw attention to the long-understood role NATO and western countries made in provoking the conflict in the first place. The belief on the left is that war is most commonly caused by the continuous swelling of the military industrial complex, and the insaitable necessity for expansion and plundering other countries.
Ukraine is getting hollowed out for parts by western countries, who provoked the war in the first place, and are pushing for Ukraine to continue fighting "to the last Ukrainian" rather than work towards a negotiated settlement. None of this position is based on support for Russia as a founding reason, yet those who cannot actually argue against these positions frequently try to dodge the anti-war and pro-peace argument by claiming it's somehow the work of Russian influence.
There's good reason both the DSA and PSL largely agree about NATO's role, as well as Die Linke, PTB, Breakthrough News, etc. It's because this didn't come from nowehere, the west has done this over and over again around the world repeatedly. It's an observed pattern, with the only agency allowed internally to stop this is to advocate against the far-right slide and increased militarism.
antonim@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 3d
Per DSA:
So, pretty much as I said. Let Russia win and call it the antiāwar position, lol.
Ohhh, evil western exploiters... Unlike the humane Russia that wouldnt hollow it out at all.
It might not be the founding reason, but the outcome is the same.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 3d
A negotiated settlement is the best path forward for the Ukrainian people, who have been used by NATO countries as a battering ram to encircle and oppose Russia. This is not a "pro-Russia" stance, it's a deliberate wish to end the war as soon as possible with as little bloodshed as possible. This is pure "peace is war" doublespeak on your part.
antonim@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 3d
Saying stuff that nearly perfectly aligns with the official Russian narrative and military goals, and yet mechanically insisting that your stance is not proāRussian, is just not terribly convincing.
There's at least one other option to end the war as soon as possible ā having Russia cease the invasion. But in the proāRussian narrative, that option is not on the table, since the invasion was justified and necessary. It is not Russia that you want to see giving up, but Ukraine.
A ceasefire that gives concessions to a genocidal aggressor that is likely to attack again afterwards to get the rest of what it wanted is a pretty worthless peace, there's nothing doublespeak about that conclusion. E.g. I also wouldn't be advising Stalin to go beg Hitler for a ceasefire and giving concessions to the Third Reich while the Wehrmacht was encircling Leningrad, even though continuing and properly ending the war would and in fact did cost hundreds of thousands of lives ā as tragic as it was, it was the correct decision, rather than some grotesque peace treaty. So spare me this selective pacifism.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 2d
Reread the statements I linked. The DSA and PSL are very different organizations, same with PTB and Die Linke, and yet they all focus on how to best bring an end to the war in a practical manner from their own positions as western organizations. None of them have power over what Russia does or does not do, but all can influence the continued warmongering and militarization of NATO. Only four countries recognize Russia as genocidal in the Russo-Ukrainian war:
And that's because the Russo-Ukrainian war has, among modern conflicts, had a remarkably low civilian death count on both sides. What this means is that a swift and expedient settlement is the best that organizations in the west can actually push for to help the people of Ukraine, people who do not wish to keep fighting for western billionaires to plunder minerals. Further still, Donetsk and Luhansk already want to join Russia. Even if Kiev succeeded in pushing Russia back and getting them to surrender, Kiev would still be right back to the civil war it was in for 8 years prior to Russia entering the war.
The best case scenario for working class Ukrainians, as well as the people in the Donbass, is a negotiated settlement now. This is something socialist parties and anti-war activists recognize around the world. As the conflict in Iran heightens, it becomes clear that NATO buildup is being used to bomb elementary schools like Minab, all riding off of the far-right slide and militarization campaigns that only service western billionaires.
None of this is "pro-Russia." Labeling any socialist views as being "foreign influenced" is a time-tested method of cracking down on any form of anti-war, anti imperialist, pro-labor activism for centuries.
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -22 pts · 4d
ur on da lisd
srr bru
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 4d
Hopefully my OPSEC is good enough to keep me safe, but organizing as a communist is always a risk.
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -26 pts · 4d
You'll be found out and barred from jobs you could never dream off anyways.
Calm your victim complex.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 4d
NSPM-7 is a real program targeting any organization against the capitalist state. This isn't a "victim complex," it's the real present day state repressions.
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -18 pts · 4d
I am like Kraut, referring to pro-Putinists, which include individuals in a wide
assemblyrange of political positions and whether they can sit in high level positions in the defence, etc.Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 4d
As I said in my original comment:
It's easy to simply call people "pro-Putinists" and then make lists, crack down on them, repress them, etc. Calling anti-system agitators "foreign agents" or "foreign influenced" is a time-tested tool of fascism.
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -16 pts · 4d
I don't believe this wide sweeping, that you refer to, will occur.
People who support the aggressive nation of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine are, in fact, very identifiable. You are not innocent "anti-war activists". You support an aggressive neighbor.
I don't support "cracking down on" you. I DO support you being barred from holding certain positions in defense and similar.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 11 pts · 4d
Everyone who doesn't agree with me is a filthy foreign enemy, news at 11.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 8 pts · 4d
Last 5 years? We know exactly what politicians worked for Putin for the last 30 years. We know they are a security risk but there's nothing we can do about it. Nothing legal that is.
sidereal@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 4d
grow up
stenAanden@feddit.dk · -14 pts · 4d
LISTED
frisbird@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 4d
Wow you are really not beating the Nazi comparisons, are you?
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
Am I on the cool kids club list?
yoru77@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 3d
Isn't it also about 5 years that there is the War next to EU's border? (Russia vs Ukraine) There is also trump that threaten EU, and do whatever "he wants" I would really want to see more united EU, because now Eu is still subordinate to USA
I don't know even how I should react to it, I don't consider the entire .ml instance as something bad, I can see why some instance defederate from them, but that is it
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 3d
Whatever hapened to those fascist clowns that moved to Russia? Been awful quiet. Did they come back to the US with their tail between their legs? Sent off to fight in Ukraine and killed? What happened to them?
CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 3d
As of December 2025, the dad got drafted into the army and sent to the frontlines in Ukraine lol.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3d
Wonder if he made it.
Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 2d
Well... russia is known for being selective with whom they sent to the front line. E.g. if you live in Moscow, you are a lot less likely to be selected than from other regions of Russia. And people claim that Russia is doing so because that helps them to avoid public outcry in major cities.
Given that the Russian public probably doesn't give a shit about this guy, and we know that he was sent to the front line. He has probably been sent to the most dangerous front lines, repeatedly.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
Iām not sure about the āselctiveā part other than, as you say, avoiding what sounds like sending the wealthier people to war. Theyāre using mercenaries (or at least foreign āvoluneersā), conscripts that force Ukrainians to fight their own people, jailed criminals, pretty much anyone they can send that doesnāt have enough clout to cause a stir. Plenty of russians have fled the country that could afford to do so, and more will follow.
Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 2d
Wealthier? Yeah but also from the highly populated areas. Protests are more likely escalate as more people are possibly involved
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 3d
I would assume the same that happened to the reddit Ukraine brigade.
Wakmrow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 3d
Come find out
mavu@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 2d
Already done, don't worry.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de · -1 pts · 3d
Damn, the .ml crowd really doesn't like being called out.
Brigading is like their favourite pastime it seems. Or they are using bots to downvote any comment that criticizes them.
To any non-tankie in those instances: get out while you can.
BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 3d
I would imagine most people get annoyed when people accuse them of all sorts of dumb shit.
Buddy, we see the same posts as you do, of course we're going to engage with obvious bait.
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 19 pts · 3d
Brigading is when ml exists and federates with anyone else, apparently.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 3d
If .ml is so bad, wouldn't anyone visiting it be able to see that for themselves? They dont need your commands to leave the instance.
Why continously feudpost in some cringe campaign against the instance? Normal people block people/shit they dont want to see and move on with their lives. Why haven't you?
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 3d
Welcome to a tutorial on how to block .ml on your personal account.
In the top right corner of the top of the page, there are 3 horizontal white bars. Click it.
This will open up a drop down menu. At the bottom of that menu, you will see your username. Click it.
This will open another drop down menu with 3 options. Click "Settings".
At the top of your screen you will see 2 tabs. Click the one that says "Blocks".
Here you will see "Block user" "Block community" and "Block instance". Click the down arrow below "Block instance".
This will open up a search bar. Type "lemmy.ml" and click it after it shows up. That's it! You've blocked .ml and will never see content from the instance.
But wait, we aren't done yet in this menu. Click the down arrow under "Block user". Now type "UltraGiGaGigantic" Make sure you select my .ml account as the other ones I no longer use. Thanks, appreciate it.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de · -5 pts · 3d
Already did. Even used uBlock to remove any .ml and hexbear posts.
And now my feed has a lot less Russian and Chinese propaganda.
Funny how that works, eh?
Only encounter tankies in posts like these now.
philipp_@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 3d
The outrage is really funny when you consider that no country ever quite perfected the art of list based politics like the USSR did. They had so many lists and lists of lists. Everybody was on a list by somebody, who was probably on at least a couple of their lists. It was an art form.
edgarde@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 3d
Right onto Trump's pardon list. Probably also new slush fund beneficiaries.
grandel@lemmy.ml · -5 pts · 4d
Comment below me says "listed"
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 3d
Listed as hella rad.
B1tch_Pudding@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 4d
PeanortiddieAIDS
tyo_ukko@sopuli.xyz · -7 pts · 4d
Funnily enough, you'll hear something very similar from the European far right parties. It's almost like both of these extremes are funded by the same interests..
OfCourseNot@fedia.io · -10 pts · 4d
I don't propagandise for Russia, or 'demand' anything from Europe. But I'm completely against rising the military spending, with my money at least, the supporters can open a gofundme and dump all their savings in it if they want. If the oop knew something about European history or the current socio-political landscape they would know that their own armed forces are the bigger 'real security risk' for most European countries.
I also hope all these spend-risers, and their kids, are the first to enlist and volunteer for the front lines.
stenAanden@feddit.dk · 8 pts · 4d
No neutrality on this topic. Russia is an aggressor in this conflict and have started multiple wars with their neighbors for years.
OfCourseNot@fedia.io · -1 pts · 4d
None of this neighbours were in NATO or the EU. European military budgets are alright, and Russia is in no way a threat. Ukraine (which I'm in favour to support with arms, intelligence, money.. or whatever they need) is giving them some hell with just a tiny fraction of the equipment and personnel.
At my workplace we have them eurofighters flying overhead every weekday (today I've seen also a chinook, and one of those massive transport planes with four propellers) burning my tax euros. I think they have plenty of money already. We could send those fighter right now to guard the airspace near Ukraine and Belarus that has been violated several times, I'll support that. But stop already with the bootlicking and warmongering, please.
RidderSport@feddit.org · -1 pts · 3d
Look, whether Russia actually tries attacking a NATO member or not depends on NATO's ability to show it is unified and well prepared.
Russia is already testing our ability to defend ourselves. They regularily violate our airspace on purpose to see how long it takes for our response. They drop drones in the Baltic, fly a squadron of fighters into Estonia. They keep sabotaging and terrorising in NATO. They keep threatening us with nukes if we don't immidiatly stop supplying arms to Ukraine. This is how they started in Ukraine prior to 2014's incursion of "little green men". If we aren't ready, then I fear that a few "little green men" have their summer vacation in Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania. NATO doesn't fear an outright attack. It fears a small scale attack by a Russia that believes we lack the cohesion and means to properly respond. One such small incursion would need to be properly met, that is why NATO needs to be well prepared.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 3d
Lol. European military budgets before war were famously underfunded and going down. To the point where bullets or uniforms were not being delivered.
I can fucking tell, you don't live anywhere near the Russian border.