People need to learn that when they hear 'inflation is down', it doesn't mean things are getting cheaper, it just means that the increase in cost is slowing down.
Is it a psychological tactic that news media is using to make consumers more complacent? Who knows. But, whenever I hear someone mention that phrase like things are improving, I die a little more each time.
The inflation figure is an annual figure though. It means things are 2.7% more expensive than they were last year. OP is showing an example nearer 60%.
if inflation made my paycheck go up, that'd be great. As it stands I have a LOT less buying power and my industry is waffling so I'm only seeing 2% increases for years.
It exists. In Belgium and I think also Luxembourg inflation in prices of common consumer things automatically triggers wages, unemployment money, pensions to rise too. For most jobs it triggers when it hits 2%. Life got 2 % more expensive, wages rise 2 % a few months / a year later. Using a basket of consumer prices, excluding things like fuel, alcohol, tobacco prices
Heh I stopped in Belgium years before the Euro money conversion, chill place. I remember going to an atm to get some local currency to shop and the options were something like 1000, 5000, 10000. It was pre smartphone so I had no idea what the conversion was or what to choose. So I just hit something in the middle and had WAY too much money to buy some fresh fruit and chocolate.
In other countries EVERY index gets jumped unless they successfully negotiate/strike for the raise. Yeah, jumped index sucks but it was still a rather occasional thing. There's been only 4 I think, 3 times in the eighties, 1 time in 2015...
Not really... The economy is more and more controlled by a hand full of large multinationals. So if one corporation has 90% of the market (using different brand names to fake competition), they can raise the price far beyond just supply and demand. In the end we all need food and Healthcare etc. When you have the option of paying way to much (for some medicine) or dying, you can't really say no, right.
Yes, vut with the supply being almost literally just a printer. Typically 2% inflation are intentionally targeted to prevent deflation (which is also not good).
Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers: Meats, Poultry, Fish, and Eggs in U.S. City Average (Seasonally Adjusted)
Entire Time Series (1967+) Normalized to '82-'84 =100:
Last 5 Years (2020+), Renormalized to 100 = Jan 2020:
So, yeah, thats about 35% increase in 5 years, if you specifically look at the Meat Poultry Fish Eggs component of the CPI.
The CPI numbers, the, '2.5%' inflation number... thats month to month the last 12 months, annualized, like an APR, ... and they are a weighted basket of many, many different subcomponents such as this.
Sort of analagous to how a say, 10% APR... well, thats annualized, so to get the monthly interest rate, you roughly divide by 12... but technically it is more complicated, because that monthly interest rate is actually compounding every month over month.
So the acutal monthly rate is:
MPR = [ ( 1 + APR ) ^ ( 1 / 12 ) ] - 1
If you treat an ~35% increase over almost 5 years with this kind of math, then you end up with an average, effective monthly inflation rate for meat and eggs of:
6.642%, since Jan 2020.
EDIT: I fucked up the math, goddamned javascript based web calculator on shitty mobile phone,.here's something more accurate:
4.984%, since July 2020.
(I'm basically just doing napkin math here, picking specifically July 2020 just because its the 5Y window, normally you'd use a longer period of stability to base this off of, but hopefully ya'll get the idea)
Also worth noting, the latest August numbers are of course backward looking, in time. So, if these price pics in the OP image are literally from today... they may not be reflected in the numbers untill next month.
... Assuming Trump has not destroyed the BLS/FRED by then, who fucking knows.
.........
Why doesn't this line up with broader inflation?
Well, lots of reasons, I'm going to pick probably the biggest one, as opposed to writing an entire PhD level dissertation...
The CPI, the big headline number... is based on an average basket of goods and services that, ie, a weighted index, and uh... that basket, those weights, represent the average, the mean... not the median.
Yep thats a household that makes $94k before taxes, $83k after taxes.
In 2022, the US Median after tax household income was... $64k.
So, the entire basket, and thus CPI, is thus weighted toward the spending patterns of people about 1 standard deviation higher than the median household income.
Rich people do not have the same spending basket as poorer people, poorer people disproportionally spend a lot more of their income on food, rent/mortgage, gas / car expenses...
... And as wealth disparity, and wealth transfer to the elites gets worse and worse, the reported CPI thus underreports actual inflation for more and more people.
........
Hope all these fun numbers help explain some things.
.........
EDIT 2:
Without having to doing a bunch of math yourself...
Probably look at the CPI-U series and components instead of the broader CPI... as the U refers to Urban, and something like 80% of Americans live in what is considered an Urban area.
So looking at the CPI-U is probably a relatively easy way to get a somewhay more realistic look at price levels that actual people pay... but the flipside is that the wealthy disparity is even more lopsided in Urban areas... uh, good luck, lol.
.........
The financial news and media still focus on the broader CPI... basically because of outdated tradition.
Much like how they almost never pay attention the BLS employment number revisions... unless they are very very bad.
You don't need to be very smart to have money, basically just lucky. Or ruthless.
.......
EDIT 3
Ok, using the actual numbers from OP Image... maybe this can demonsrate the power of compound interest.
Thats a 1y difference of +45.496%, in $/lb of beef.
All it takes to get that, in one year...
Is an average, compounding, 3.1742% price increase every month, for 12 months.
Exponential equations run away fast, and human brains tend to default to thinking of linear relationships... not exponential... and thats why credit card companies make so much money, lol.
Anyway, yeah, check this CPI U meat/eggs subcomponent next month to see august price levels, and if they do a massive jump, or if data is now considered a woke diversity hire and now banned shrug
Unfortunately that world runs on nepotism and schmoozing and 'prestigious accolades' (aka you have to start off rich) and I am too autistic and too lowborn.
I could go into an entire schpiel, with cited data and sources, showing that meritocracy is near nonexistant in the US, but uh... this is one of those uh, bell curve memes with the caveman and wizard on both ends, and neurotic normie in the middle.
You do enough data analysis and one day it hits you that 90% of people cannot or do not read data, and then you realize you have to craft a narrative device if you want any hope of anyone actually absorbing what you're saying lol.
If its any consolation to you... I have ideas for someday making a very comprehensive immersive sim type game... but at the scale of Kenshi, not your traditional imsim that is basically a series of small levels with choices.
Maybe someday I will get some of this working before the actual real world apocalypse/mass economic collapse, rofl.
You do enough data analysis and one day it hits you that 90% of people cannot or do not read data
100% for real. It's like I went to grad school to learn how to be ignored by people. People also behave the same way with internet privacy and personal data online, and so between the two I feel like Kassandra, cursed to shout warnings that go unheeded and point out data that connects it all. Even with a good narrative and meet them in the middle examples, many people simply can't handle any single tiny aspect of their worldview be changed, one iota.
FWIW, if you have time at the moment, there's a TON of resources online to make coding a game very, very easy, and can be done for relatively little to no money. It's the artwork that takes time and effort. Just don't expect to get rich from it.
Boy who cried wolf but no actually he was right the whole time and you just thought he was a witch.
As to game dev: Fortunately, I have a lot of experience making mods and game modes for games, I have also worked as a software dev, and I am very much aware of, and actively catalouging, a whole bunch of useful concepts and opensource code and projects and such.
My main 'blocker' right now is that I got fucking crippled in a mugging / car jacking and am still recovering... I am just in too much pain to be able to physically make the game, write the code.
The good news there is my daily at home PT is working, things are improving every day, bit by bit... but it still may take a good chunk of time.
So I just catalogue and basically do framing and conceptual work for how systems would work and integrate.
I don't expect to get rich haha, I would be happy if I ended up with a game I enjoy playing.
My friend has a degree in computing and statistics, working in climate change studies at Uni in the early 90's. Being a greenie he was disappointed that it seemed futile because, as you said, most people don't care about data.
He moved into electronic music thinking he could influence people with messages there (kind of like Simpsons embed messaging).
We now know that pop culture propaganda is somewhat futile in this regard too and if humanity does pull itself out of this mess it will be a vast combination of efforts in many fields. All of them seem futile in isolation.
Too bad when I pointed this kinda shit out when it was more nascent, a decade ago, everyone acted like I was a hysterical loon... fucking oh well I guess!
Hope you're stocked up on rice and beans and spam and what not.
If a can of Spam becomes cheaper than actual meat then the CPI will substitute them as "equal". Cheese Wiz is just as "cheese" as stuff that comes out of a cow.
CPI is nothing but a gamed statistic. It's fake. Even then they can't pretend all is hunky dory.
So, the very complicated and expansive version of what you are talking about is Hedonics, Hedonic Adjustments... and lets just say it is so fucking technical and complicated that as I have said elsewhere in this thrrad, I basically have PTSD from trying to have detailed discussions about which elements of this are valid and to what extent they are valid.
Its not quite as simple and straightforwardly bullshit as you describe, but it also does functionally end up resulting in the general bullshit that you do describe... its just that quantifying the exact amount of bullshit happening, due to illegitimate hedonic adjustments... is a statistical and accounting nightmare.
Wouldn't hedonic adjustments go the other direction from what the parent comment is saying? If the quality goes down, then the adjustment should increase the stated inflation.
I read the parent comment as talking about substitution effects in consumer behavior, but the CPI doesn't reweight month to month (it used to only adjust once every few years, but has recently switched to once a year).
So generally, substitution bias makes the CPI overstate the inflation as actually experienced by the typical household.
Substitution bias tends to overstate inflation, because they only reweight once a year (which is much more frequently than what they used to do). And the reweighting of the components won't change the fact that the individual components continue to be published.
Beef is getting much more expensive than it used to be. In the 90's, ground beef used to be cheaper per pound than chicken breast. In the 30 years since, beef has gotten expensive much faster than chicken, and now ground beef costs almost 50% more than ground beef:
I'm just chiming in to say, yeah, the logic of this is directly in line with the statistics, and economics that I learned in college. I drifted away from it and I haven't run the numbers myself, but I have no reason to doubt the calculations.
I agree with you, and I'm hoping that will reinforce to others that this is far more complex than most people can comprehend. It's certainly more complex than what the Whitehouse economists seem to understand.... Regardless, I think you said it perfectly with "exponential equations run away fast", and I think that might even be understating it; especially that the average person doesn't "get" how quickly compound rates can increase the costs of things over time.
I understand that they have to set limits for themselves or they'll be doing calculations all year and never get enough done to have the whole picture. What they are working from is certainly not the whole picture. Regardless, the math doesn't lie.
If things keep up like this, I think that in less than one quarter, we'll see the numbers skyrocket.
I appreciate the reinforcement that I am not insane, genuienly.
Struggled with impostor syndrome for a loooong time, and uh... welp, yeah, turns out I spent roughly 2 decades being a lot more right than wrong (not just specifically on this), and everyone else actually either had no clue what they were talking about, or massive unexamind normalcy bias, ignorant of the concept of a state change, a phase transition.
... So as the world now burns, I at least find a modicum of horrendous solace in knowing that I was at least not overreacting... though I obviously wish more people had listened to me and taken me seriously, at least ... I tried ... thus my conscious is clear.
I rarely drink due to alcoholism running through the family, but yeah, I'll take a double shot of bourbon please, lol.
On that note, may be worth looking into how to do some uh, home distillation, at very small scales, what with the impending collapse of Kentucky's spirits industry.
Also... kombucha may be a good deal easier to make? No clue, but I am some kind of absurd hipster that prefers kombucha over beer but also still very much likes whiskey and bourbon.
They constantly tell you the monthly rate for the same reason as credit card companies (to obscure the long term effects). It's a grift either way. I think that's a point of the comic.
According to our studies: accordion straps, horse shoes, goat bladder, those antenna from old TVs, and musket shot prices have all remained stable! Inflation solved!
Hedonics is a whole fucking thing... I... I dont wanna talk about it lol.
What I can briefly mention is that uh...yeah, recently?
Well, there have been budget cuts to the orgs and personnel that actuslly do the price surveys... so a growing number of econ data dorks suspect that... we are now up to roughly 1/3 of individual items in the CPI being calculated by... imputation.
Which is more or less a fancy stats way of saying 'we were not actually able to count this so we are just gonna assume it stayed the same.'
And thats all before Trump just straight up fired the BLS chief and replaced her with a Jan 6th insurrectionist.
You really shouldn't underfund or fuck with the people that produce some of the most important numbers in a financialized market economy, but oh well I guess!
if i alert someone of the possibility of earning either 0 or 100 dollars at a coinflip by saying "the average payout is 50 dollars," while ive said something true, ive also said something misleading. a reasonable person might say, "0, but you said i could earn 50!" and would you expect them to be mollified by me saying, "no no no, its actually only the average is 50. i was clear about this up front." its like a student turning in their math homework and they didnt simplify the expression at the end, complaining about the teacher insisting you have to do all the work to earn full credit.
Are you implying the average person doesn't understand averages? That's ridiculous! I could understand the average person not understanding standard deviations and other statistical terms, but a simple average is something people deal with every day.
All the inflation figure means is how much your money is getting weaker year over year. If you take everyone's budget, the average person will be spending that much more year over year. Individual circumstances will certainly vary, such as vegans not being impacted by egg shortages. In this case, beef supply has been reduced, causing prices to increase. This is unlikely to be a long term thing, and prices will return to "normal" (after regular inflation is taken into account) once supply returns to normal. That happened with eggs this year, prices were ridiculous at the start when hen populations were slashed due to disease outbreak, and now production has returned and prices are about where they were a year ago.
The meat shortage is a temporary thing caused by reduced herd populations and tariffs on Brazilian imports, but will likely last a lot longer than the egg supply costs because herds take longer to repopulate than chicken broods.
It's inane to expect everything to change prices in lockstep. We use averages to smooth over distortions in one area to get a better idea of what's going on more broadly (i.e. are increased prices part of a broader inflationary trend, or is one area seeing a unique spike?).
We use averages to smooth over distortions in one area to get a better idea of whatâs going on more broadly
"we" are using a different meaning of the word average I think. When I say mean, the point is to give an idea of where the "center" of the dataset is, not what the dataset is shaped like.
Misuse of Statistics: Using numbers in such a manner that â either by intent or through ignorance or carelessness â the conclusions are unjustified or incorrect.
the often overlooked fact that the mean does not provide any information about the shape of the probability distribution of a data set or skewness, and that decisions or analysis based on only the meanâas opposed to median and standard deviationâmay be faulty.
Are you implying the average person doesnât understand averages?
That's an interesting thing to say. Tell me more about that.
When I say mean, the point is to give an idea of where the âcenterâ of the dataset is, not what the dataset is shaped like.
Inflation is a measure of how the value of money changes over time, and the point is to guide monetary policy to increase or decrease the supply of money. The main impact of inflation measures is to impact borrowing rates, since that's the principle driver of money supply.
Inflation measures are not intended to measure how much eggs cost or what to expect your grocery bill to look like. It can be used for that, but a single number will never be sufficient.
A 2.7% inflation doesn't mean everything is around 2.7% more expensive, it means that if you look at the average spending across all areas for an average person (again, not an actual person, but the mean), they will spend 2.7% more this year vs last. That could be from rent, groceries, sporting goods, etc. How much you are impacted depends on what areas you spend more in. If eggs are up and you're vegan, you won't be impacted much at all, but if beans are up, you'll be impacted more than most.
Prices fluctuate for a variety of reasons, inflation just indicates how much of that is likely due to money being devalued.
Because it isnt households that want it, its the big companies that make processed meat products or burger chains. If moving to lab grown saves McDonalds 5 cents per burger thats 127 million dollars a year. Imagine how much chicken companies that make cheap breaded nuggets use...
The moment it becomes financially viable to build their own factory they will.
Ill rephrase "it isnt the average household" Lemmy skews hard left, go on facebook and see any discussion about lab grown or plant based and read the "I'll never buy this shit" from people who you KNOW wont check the ingredients list before dunking the chicken nuggets into their trolley or their cookies into their trolley if they figure out plant based eggs...
It can still cut into profits even if it isn't scalable to being a full solution and it is still worth it for consumers even if it can't be worth it for every consumer.
All this can still be true even if "lab grow all meats. problem solved" is not true (or at least not possible, even if it is a logically valid construction).
I literally will become anemic if I don't eat meat. I grew up vegetarian for religious reasons; it was hell until my doctor worked with a nutritionist when I was a kid and determined that my body just needs the complex protein density that is provided in lean meat.
That being said, considering the global catastrophe that is the way we produce and distribute meat as a civilization, I'm happy to pay high prices for quality and (to the extent any can be) ethically produced cuts.
Of course, <redacted> tariff wars will hurt extra to me and others like myself.
Yes, a severe lack of protein can cause anemia. Anemia is a condition characterized by a shortage of healthy red blood cells or a low level of hemoglobin, the protein in red blood cells that carries oxygen.
Here's why protein deficiency can lead to anemia:
Hemoglobin is a protein: Hemoglobin is a complex protein molecule. Without an adequate supply of protein from your diet, your body cannot produce enough hemoglobin. This directly leads to a reduced ability to transport oxygen throughout the body, which is the definition of anemia.
Red blood cell production: Protein is also a fundamental building block for all cells, including the red blood cells themselves. A severe protein deficiency can impair the body's ability to produce new red blood cells in the bone marrow, contributing to anemia.
While iron deficiency is the most common cause of nutritional anemia worldwide, other deficiencies, including a lack of protein, vitamin B12, and folate, can also be significant contributing factors.
In severe cases, such as in individuals with protein-energy malnutrition, anemia is a common and serious complication.
My individual biochemistry is such that I need meat to remain vital and at a healthy body weight.
Sure, but if no one can afford to buy artificially inflated real meat prices, that's a good reason to sell fake beef at a price where people can afford it.... And THEN you start to increase the price of that too, but only once a Democrat is president so people can freak out like they did with egg prices
It's not like it's on store shelves. It has to exist in the realm of reality before the public can weigh in to determine its corporate viability/profitability.
Beef, in particular, has experienced an intense price shock following a national shortage of cattle, with the national herd at a 73-year low.
This stems from severe drought conditions that have been plaguing the cattle-heavy mountain west for the better part of the last decade. Higher feed prices have also contributed to rising prices. But even beyond that, demand for beef continues to outpace the supply, driving prices upward as the raw supply of cattle falls.
I guess vegans can kinda-sorta rejoice. We're killing fewer cows and wasting less animal product, as the conditions of our country making herding both environmentally and ecologically unsustainable. This has spurred more investment into alt-meats, while also forcing states to grapple with how they're expending diminished water reserves.
But since we live in a plutocracy, I'm not sure we'll get better policy out of these material changes to the ecology. Mark Zuckerberg can keep force-feeding his Austin steers buckets of macadamia nuts while his AI factors belch CO^2^ and guzzle potable water long after the rest of us are living in Gaza-like conditions.
I guess vegans can kinda-sorta rejoice. Weâre killing fewer cows and wasting less animal product, as the conditions of our country making herding both environmentally and ecologically unsustainable. This has spurred more investment into alt-meats, while also forcing states to grapple with how theyâre expending diminished water reserves.
I switched to being a vegetarian proper about a year ago, and its been a little validating that my grocery bills went down even when meat was more affordable, but now is dramatically cheaper since Quorn and Impossible meat haven't inflated in price at all (and are even more affordable when picked up in bulk on sale for the freezer).
Those two alternatives are astonishingly good, even enabling me to convert my lifelong meat eating family to vegetarianism which was unreal to see. I can't even tell I'm not eating meat in all the meat-based dishes I use them in, they're so damn good. Also nice to avoid the increased cancer risk from red meat.
For anyone else reading this, I massively recommend giving those two meat alternatives a shot. Impossible is 1-to-1, and the Quorn only needs a good vegan bullion cube of whatever meat you're trying to replicate (or Marmite for Beef flavor) and it's perfect for anything.
Finland has been having "sorry for the beef shortage" signs on the shelves for at least like a month and a half. Less now, but for the last month or a couple
Yes, thank you! I wish I could upvote you twice. Itâs immediately what I thought of, especially some of the methods governments can use to shift inflation numbers. Great episode, would recommend people listen given its relevance.
Not the most fair comparison. Cattle herd is smallest it's been in 60+ years and prices haven't gone high enough to reduce demand enough that the herd can rebound yet. You'll see higher beef prices for another 2 years before things calm down again.
Cattle numbers are definitely down, but monopolization of ranching has been carrying on at a pretty good clip as well. I think it's a safe bet that the new point of equilibrium they find will still be more expensive, even inflation adjusted. There's a similar trend across most agribusiness that I've seen, especially with farms going out of business in droves because of the pandemic.
Cattle numbers are also down because of Trump btw. Long term effect from his 1st presidency + his current policies helped the screw worm flies get through Panama.
You're spot on because inflation is what allows the whole thing to work. If instead there was rapid deflation on the trillions of debt held by Americans it would cause many to default.
But hell, talking about inflation is so weird because to most I feel like it just means the things people buy are now more expensive. Things are more expensive because people are able/willing to pay more, they're just in the losing side of the disparity. It wasn't inflation of the dollar that caused housing prices in places like Phoenix to climb over the past 20 years, it was people with more money than them moving in from places like California.
If you take the timeframe between these two photos and apply a monthly inflation rate of 2.7, you would land at 70,5$ for August 2025. Now obviously either the inflation was higher in some month in between, or the vendor just hiked the price. But the general drift is correct.
I don't think the inflation rate is supposed to be compounded on a month to month basis. 2.7 is supposed to track changes in the consumer price index over the course of the entire year.
Like everyone else who's responding to you, I think you are mixing up monthly reporting of inflation since the same month the previous year (which is a sensible like-for-like comparison) with inflation since the previous month, which is almost always a silly and misleading figure because prices have seasonal change through the year.
Media tend to report this as stuff like "inflation dropped in January" but they don't mean since December, there are always January sales, that isn't useful information.
Start supporting your local animal farms and find yourself a butcher.
Itâs time to become self dependent and we are in a unique period of time where we have the knowledge and material to do it on an individual and hopefully local level.
A lot of people already do this, just not the ones in your circle!
As much as it fun to rag on supposedly out of touch economists, this "cheapflation" phenomenon is very documented and accepted among mainstream economists. Like many others in the public sector, government economists have been calling for more suitable and timely measures of inflation for decades, only to have their requests for more funding and support denied as the public service falls apart.
In economics, inflation is an increase in the average price of goods and services in terms of money.[4][5]:â579â This increase is measured using a price index, typically a consumer price index (CPI).
No, profit percentages remain relatively flat during inflationary increases. Thatâs not what weâre seeing at all. Profit percentages are at an all-time high.
Honestly, chuck is great.
I'm cutting weight, and trying to maintain muscle mass. I just make a big roast, portion it out into 180g servings (50g protein each), and make poor man's steak sandwiches out of them. It's generally tender, and not bad at all.
That, and you can use it for high protein stews etc.
yeah the high end restaurant, Fallow, in the UK made a video on how they are able to make a profit on beef. Basically, they buy whole sides, butcher it in house, make all the beef dinner something people expect to pay extra for, but keep the price within reasonable expectations.
Chain places probably have a similar operation, but instead of one side at a time, and in house butchering, they are buying 1000's of sides, and making year+ length contracts with a meat packing corporation.
That's bullshit because grocery stores buy them in larger bulk and should be cheaper. The whole idea of cooking at home is supposed to be cheaper and it's the labor you pay for at a restaurant. How have we swung completely backwards to where a restaurant is cheaper than cooking at home?
Grocery stores don't sell as many steaks in a day as a busy steak restaurant does. They also sell all of the other parts of a cow and have competing food items for sale as well. Plus they pay their staff higher wages because they aren't tipped and have other overhead costs that impact all of the things they sell.
Restaurants are all about quickly moving a comparatively smaller number of items as quickly as possible. That means they buy specific types of things in bulk and have lower costs to get them to the customer.
Meat isn't food, it is a luxury good made by refining mountains of actual food through the body of a vulnerable individual. Of fucking COURSE it's expensive. It's been cheep for decades because you pay for it in your taxes and I'm fucking sick of paying so much money so you can have cheap meat. Fucking deal with it.
Right? Slavery was common for a very long time. People used to just dump shit in the water in early cities and cause cholera outbreaks. Lots of old practices are no longer done for good reason
Economic "measurements" are one of worst pseudo-scientific grifts out there. Inflation is perhaps the peak example.
Also carnism is disgusting, unsustainable, inefficient, and literally destroying the planet. I hope meat becomes completely unaffordable as it would be without massive violent enforcement.
187 Comments
EtherWhack@lemmy.world · 184 pts · 361d
People need to learn that when they hear 'inflation is down', it doesn't mean things are getting cheaper, it just means that the increase in cost is slowing down.
Is it a psychological tactic that news media is using to make consumers more complacent? Who knows. But, whenever I hear someone mention that phrase like things are improving, I die a little more each time.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 32 pts · 360d
The inflation figure is an annual figure though. It means things are 2.7% more expensive than they were last year. OP is showing an example nearer 60%.
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 21 pts · 360d
It's actually showing 47%. The price is based on pounds which increased from $10.99 to $15.99.
Tja@programming.dev · 17 pts · 360d
Since it's from April to August, it's actually showing 31% annual.
And since a sample size of one, and the location is redacted (could be comparing Texas with NYC or Hawaii) it's showing nothing.
sqgl@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 360d
And meat prices are factored into a CPI I presume.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 359d
I think OP is trying to demonstrate how useless CPI is as a measure.
GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 359d
Inflation isn't based on the cost of a single thing. You're confusing it with stocks.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 360d
if inflation made my paycheck go up, that'd be great. As it stands I have a LOT less buying power and my industry is waffling so I'm only seeing 2% increases for years.
freebee@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 360d
It exists. In Belgium and I think also Luxembourg inflation in prices of common consumer things automatically triggers wages, unemployment money, pensions to rise too. For most jobs it triggers when it hits 2%. Life got 2 % more expensive, wages rise 2 % a few months / a year later. Using a basket of consumer prices, excluding things like fuel, alcohol, tobacco prices
rumba@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 360d
Heh I stopped in Belgium years before the Euro money conversion, chill place. I remember going to an atm to get some local currency to shop and the options were something like 1000, 5000, 10000. It was pre smartphone so I had no idea what the conversion was or what to choose. So I just hit something in the middle and had WAY too much money to buy some fresh fruit and chocolate.
Orygin@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 360d
Yet they still manage to fuck us over by "jumping" an index. 2% may not seem much now but compounded we lose a lot over the years
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 359d
You (and every step angle other employee at your company) should be demanding AT LEAST an inflation adjustment every year from your boss.
Orygin@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 359d
Sure, but to only get told there is no budget now and it will be re-evaluated next year
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 359d
Which is the point of having the rest of the employees behind you, no raise, no work.
freebee@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 359d
In other countries EVERY index gets jumped unless they successfully negotiate/strike for the raise. Yeah, jumped index sucks but it was still a rather occasional thing. There's been only 4 I think, 3 times in the eighties, 1 time in 2015...
GraniteM@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 360d
How it feels when headlines celebrate that inflation is down:
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 359d
Celebrating the discontinuance of something bad happening... isn't that weird.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 361d
"Inflation is just supply-and-demand when you think about it."
bier@feddit.nl · 11 pts · 360d
Not really... The economy is more and more controlled by a hand full of large multinationals. So if one corporation has 90% of the market (using different brand names to fake competition), they can raise the price far beyond just supply and demand. In the end we all need food and Healthcare etc. When you have the option of paying way to much (for some medicine) or dying, you can't really say no, right.
pivot_root@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 360d
And shelter, which developers, slumlords, and property management companies would be more than happy to see doubled every decade.
If you include necessities beyond just what is needed to not end up dead, we also have:
There are plenty of places where the average person has no choice but to get bent over and fucked by profit-seeking corporations.
wischi@programming.dev · 4 pts · 360d
Yes, vut with the supply being almost literally just a printer. Typically 2% inflation are intentionally targeted to prevent deflation (which is also not good).
ToadOfHypnosis@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 360d
NeilBru@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
They want us smart enough to push the buttons and pull the levers, but dumb enough to not realize how badly we're getting fucked.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 360d
The Titanic is sinking slower! HORRAY!
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 167 pts · 360d
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF112
Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers: Meats, Poultry, Fish, and Eggs in U.S. City Average (Seasonally Adjusted)
Entire Time Series (1967+) Normalized to '82-'84 =100:
Last 5 Years (2020+), Renormalized to 100 = Jan 2020:
So, yeah, thats about 35% increase in 5 years, if you specifically look at the Meat Poultry Fish Eggs component of the CPI.
The CPI numbers, the, '2.5%' inflation number... thats
month to monththe last 12 months, annualized, like an APR, ... and they are a weighted basket of many, many different subcomponents such as this.Sort of analagous to how a say, 10% APR... well, thats annualized, so to get the monthly interest rate, you roughly divide by 12... but technically it is more complicated, because that monthly interest rate is actually compounding every month over month.
So the acutal monthly rate is:
MPR = [ ( 1 + APR ) ^ ( 1 / 12 ) ] - 1
If you treat an ~35% increase over almost 5 years with this kind of math, then you end up with an average, effective monthly inflation rate for meat and eggs of:
6.642%, since Jan 2020.EDIT: I fucked up the math, goddamned javascript based web calculator on shitty mobile phone,.here's something more accurate:
4.984%, since July 2020.
(I'm basically just doing napkin math here, picking specifically July 2020 just because its the 5Y window, normally you'd use a longer period of stability to base this off of, but hopefully ya'll get the idea)
Also worth noting, the latest August numbers are of course backward looking, in time. So, if these price pics in the OP image are literally from today... they may not be reflected in the numbers untill next month.
... Assuming Trump has not destroyed the BLS/FRED by then, who fucking knows.
.........
Why doesn't this line up with broader inflation?
Well, lots of reasons, I'm going to pick probably the biggest one, as opposed to writing an entire PhD level dissertation...
The CPI, the big headline number... is based on an average basket of goods and services that, ie, a weighted index, and uh... that basket, those weights, represent the average, the mean... not the median.
Here's 2022.
https://www.bls.gov/cex/tables/calendar-year/mean-item-share-average-standard-error/cu-income-before-taxes-2022.pdf
Yep thats a household that makes $94k before taxes, $83k after taxes.
In 2022, the US Median after tax household income was... $64k.
So, the entire basket, and thus CPI, is thus weighted toward the spending patterns of people about 1 standard deviation higher than the median household income.
Rich people do not have the same spending basket as poorer people, poorer people disproportionally spend a lot more of their income on food, rent/mortgage, gas / car expenses...
... And as wealth disparity, and wealth transfer to the elites gets worse and worse, the reported CPI thus underreports actual inflation for more and more people.
........
Hope all these fun numbers help explain some things.
.........
EDIT 2:
Without having to doing a bunch of math yourself...
Probably look at the CPI-U series and components instead of the broader CPI... as the U refers to Urban, and something like 80% of Americans live in what is considered an Urban area.
So looking at the CPI-U is probably a relatively easy way to get a somewhay more realistic look at price levels that actual people pay... but the flipside is that the wealthy disparity is even more lopsided in Urban areas... uh, good luck, lol.
.........
The financial news and media still focus on the broader CPI... basically because of outdated tradition.
Much like how they almost never pay attention the BLS employment number revisions... unless they are very very bad.
You don't need to be very smart to have money, basically just lucky. Or ruthless.
.......
EDIT 3
Ok, using the actual numbers from OP Image... maybe this can demonsrate the power of compound interest.
Thats a 1y difference of +45.496%, in $/lb of beef.
All it takes to get that, in one year...
Is an average, compounding, 3.1742% price increase every month, for 12 months.
Exponential equations run away fast, and human brains tend to default to thinking of linear relationships... not exponential... and thats why credit card companies make so much money, lol.
Anyway, yeah, check this CPI U meat/eggs subcomponent next month to see august price levels, and if they do a massive jump, or if data is now considered a woke diversity hire and now banned shrug
Pencilnoob@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 360d
Wow this is a great write up
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 35 pts · 360d
I am an unemployed econometrician, and laughing about it.
nkat2112@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 360d
I'm sorry to hear that, because your amazing talents and dedication could be purposed to save our country and world.
Thank you for drafting all this and for taking the time to teach us. You're awesome.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 360d
Unfortunately that world runs on nepotism and schmoozing and 'prestigious accolades' (aka you have to start off rich) and I am too autistic and too lowborn.
I could go into an entire schpiel, with cited data and sources, showing that meritocracy is near nonexistant in the US, but uh... this is one of those uh, bell curve memes with the caveman and wizard on both ends, and neurotic normie in the middle.
You do enough data analysis and one day it hits you that 90% of people cannot or do not read data, and then you realize you have to craft a narrative device if you want any hope of anyone actually absorbing what you're saying lol.
If its any consolation to you... I have ideas for someday making a very comprehensive immersive sim type game... but at the scale of Kenshi, not your traditional imsim that is basically a series of small levels with choices.
Maybe someday I will get some of this working before the actual real world apocalypse/mass economic collapse, rofl.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 360d
100% for real. It's like I went to grad school to learn how to be ignored by people. People also behave the same way with internet privacy and personal data online, and so between the two I feel like Kassandra, cursed to shout warnings that go unheeded and point out data that connects it all. Even with a good narrative and meet them in the middle examples, many people simply can't handle any single tiny aspect of their worldview be changed, one iota.
FWIW, if you have time at the moment, there's a TON of resources online to make coding a game very, very easy, and can be done for relatively little to no money. It's the artwork that takes time and effort. Just don't expect to get rich from it.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 360d
Hah yeah, Kassandra is a good analogy.
Boy who cried wolf but no actually he was right the whole time and you just thought he was a witch.
As to game dev: Fortunately, I have a lot of experience making mods and game modes for games, I have also worked as a software dev, and I am very much aware of, and actively catalouging, a whole bunch of useful concepts and opensource code and projects and such.
My main 'blocker' right now is that I got fucking crippled in a mugging / car jacking and am still recovering... I am just in too much pain to be able to physically make the game, write the code.
The good news there is my daily at home PT is working, things are improving every day, bit by bit... but it still may take a good chunk of time.
So I just catalogue and basically do framing and conceptual work for how systems would work and integrate.
I don't expect to get rich haha, I would be happy if I ended up with a game I enjoy playing.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 360d
Ah! Sorry about the incident and injury! All the best on your recovery, that's terrible.
sqgl@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 360d
Yes, a game is a great idea.
My friend has a degree in computing and statistics, working in climate change studies at Uni in the early 90's. Being a greenie he was disappointed that it seemed futile because, as you said, most people don't care about data.
He moved into electronic music thinking he could influence people with messages there (kind of like Simpsons embed messaging).
We now know that pop culture propaganda is somewhat futile in this regard too and if humanity does pull itself out of this mess it will be a vast combination of efforts in many fields. All of them seem futile in isolation.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
So hey, I'm an econometrics guy (by hobby) who specializes in narratives. Funny us meeting.
Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 13 pts · 360d
This was very informative, thanks for taking the time to write it.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 360d
Thanks for reading it!
Too bad when I pointed this kinda shit out when it was more nascent, a decade ago, everyone acted like I was a hysterical loon... fucking oh well I guess!
Hope you're stocked up on rice and beans and spam and what not.
Patches@ttrpg.network · 7 pts · 360d
You're leaving out the substitution principle.
If a can of Spam becomes cheaper than actual meat then the CPI will substitute them as "equal". Cheese Wiz is just as "cheese" as stuff that comes out of a cow.
CPI is nothing but a gamed statistic. It's fake. Even then they can't pretend all is hunky dory.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 360d
So, the very complicated and expansive version of what you are talking about is Hedonics, Hedonic Adjustments... and lets just say it is so fucking technical and complicated that as I have said elsewhere in this thrrad, I basically have PTSD from trying to have detailed discussions about which elements of this are valid and to what extent they are valid.
Its not quite as simple and straightforwardly bullshit as you describe, but it also does functionally end up resulting in the general bullshit that you do describe... its just that quantifying the exact amount of bullshit happening, due to illegitimate hedonic adjustments... is a statistical and accounting nightmare.
booly@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 360d
Wouldn't hedonic adjustments go the other direction from what the parent comment is saying? If the quality goes down, then the adjustment should increase the stated inflation.
I read the parent comment as talking about substitution effects in consumer behavior, but the CPI doesn't reweight month to month (it used to only adjust once every few years, but has recently switched to once a year).
So generally, substitution bias makes the CPI overstate the inflation as actually experienced by the typical household.
booly@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 360d
Substitution bias tends to overstate inflation, because they only reweight once a year (which is much more frequently than what they used to do). And the reweighting of the components won't change the fact that the individual components continue to be published.
Beef is getting much more expensive than it used to be. In the 90's, ground beef used to be cheaper per pound than chicken breast. In the 30 years since, beef has gotten expensive much faster than chicken, and now ground beef costs almost 50% more than ground beef:
Ground beef
Chicken breast
nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
yes but what about cats? did you not hear, they are eating the cats
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 359d
I'm just chiming in to say, yeah, the logic of this is directly in line with the statistics, and economics that I learned in college. I drifted away from it and I haven't run the numbers myself, but I have no reason to doubt the calculations.
I agree with you, and I'm hoping that will reinforce to others that this is far more complex than most people can comprehend. It's certainly more complex than what the Whitehouse economists seem to understand.... Regardless, I think you said it perfectly with "exponential equations run away fast", and I think that might even be understating it; especially that the average person doesn't "get" how quickly compound rates can increase the costs of things over time.
I understand that they have to set limits for themselves or they'll be doing calculations all year and never get enough done to have the whole picture. What they are working from is certainly not the whole picture. Regardless, the math doesn't lie.
If things keep up like this, I think that in less than one quarter, we'll see the numbers skyrocket.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 359d
I appreciate the reinforcement that I am not insane, genuienly.
Struggled with impostor syndrome for a loooong time, and uh... welp, yeah, turns out I spent roughly 2 decades being a lot more right than wrong (not just specifically on this), and everyone else actually either had no clue what they were talking about, or massive unexamind normalcy bias, ignorant of the concept of a state change, a phase transition.
... So as the world now burns, I at least find a modicum of horrendous solace in knowing that I was at least not overreacting... though I obviously wish more people had listened to me and taken me seriously, at least ... I tried ... thus my conscious is clear.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 359d
This was a great read. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 359d
How dare this user assault U.S. with egghead facts and numbers. Doesn't he know they're eating the cats?!
USA! USA!
/s
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 360d
Ty
TL;DR: so, we're fucked? That good enough? đ
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 360d
The whole entire scope of how fucked we are is way, way worse than just inflation in the US...
but yes, we, broadly, as humans, anywhere on the planet, that may want to live through the next 20 or 30 years... yep we are fucked.
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
No clue where you are on the planet. However, if you're within reach, I'd be happy to buy you a drink. Cheers! đ»đčđ¶
Don't drink? GFY ... enjoy the end of Humanity on your own đ
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 360d
I rarely drink due to alcoholism running through the family, but yeah, I'll take a double shot of bourbon please, lol.
On that note, may be worth looking into how to do some uh, home distillation, at very small scales, what with the impending collapse of Kentucky's spirits industry.
Also... kombucha may be a good deal easier to make? No clue, but I am some kind of absurd hipster that prefers kombucha over beer but also still very much likes whiskey and bourbon.
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
I'm extremely lazy at home. I don't even put bread in the toaster or pasta in a pot. So, I'm not making anything.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 360d
Well, you may find yourself needing to cook some soon, if the cost of food keeps going up and up.
Microwave meals may end up being both unhealthy and unaffordable fairly soon.
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
PB&J, all the way!
booly@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 360d
To add to your comment, if anyone is interested in the data series for steaks generally:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000FC3101
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 360d
They constantly tell you the monthly rate for the same reason as credit card companies (to obscure the long term effects). It's a grift either way. I think that's a point of the comic.
queermunist@lemmy.ml · 119 pts · 361d
They use a "basket of goods" that conveniently has nothing to do with how real people actually live.
Asafum@feddit.nl · 77 pts · 361d
According to our studies: accordion straps, horse shoes, goat bladder, those antenna from old TVs, and musket shot prices have all remained stable! Inflation solved!
Madison420@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 361d
You joke but musket shot ie. Soft lead is actually up as well.
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 361d
braidon save the big piece of tv antenna for your father he had a long day
misteloct@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 360d
Postimo@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 360d
misteloct@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 360d
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 360d
Hedonics is a whole fucking thing... I... I dont wanna talk about it lol.
What I can briefly mention is that uh...yeah, recently?
Well, there have been budget cuts to the orgs and personnel that actuslly do the price surveys... so a growing number of econ data dorks suspect that... we are now up to roughly 1/3 of individual items in the CPI being calculated by... imputation.
Which is more or less a fancy stats way of saying 'we were not actually able to count this so we are just gonna assume it stayed the same.'
And thats all before Trump just straight up fired the BLS chief and replaced her with a Jan 6th insurrectionist.
You really shouldn't underfund or fuck with the people that produce some of the most important numbers in a financialized market economy, but oh well I guess!
Into lalaland we a-go.
DarkSideOfTheMoon@lemmy.world · 115 pts · 360d
Brazil is the largest exporter of meat and Trump is tariffing them 50%
BussyGyatt@feddit.org · 14 pts · 360d
so, more than 2.7% in that category. almost like that claimed 2.7% is an intentionally misleading choice of "measure" of central tendency.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 359d
It takes so much into account that it becomes almost meaningless for the average person.
Valmond@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 359d
So some people will get it all, some nothing, but the average person might struggle with it?
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 359d
Sure, and less than 2.7% in other categories. That's how averages work...
BussyGyatt@feddit.org · 3 pts · 359d
if i alert someone of the possibility of earning either 0 or 100 dollars at a coinflip by saying "the average payout is 50 dollars," while ive said something true, ive also said something misleading. a reasonable person might say, "0, but you said i could earn 50!" and would you expect them to be mollified by me saying, "no no no, its actually only the average is 50. i was clear about this up front." its like a student turning in their math homework and they didnt simplify the expression at the end, complaining about the teacher insisting you have to do all the work to earn full credit.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 359d
Are you implying the average person doesn't understand averages? That's ridiculous! I could understand the average person not understanding standard deviations and other statistical terms, but a simple average is something people deal with every day.
All the inflation figure means is how much your money is getting weaker year over year. If you take everyone's budget, the average person will be spending that much more year over year. Individual circumstances will certainly vary, such as vegans not being impacted by egg shortages. In this case, beef supply has been reduced, causing prices to increase. This is unlikely to be a long term thing, and prices will return to "normal" (after regular inflation is taken into account) once supply returns to normal. That happened with eggs this year, prices were ridiculous at the start when hen populations were slashed due to disease outbreak, and now production has returned and prices are about where they were a year ago.
The meat shortage is a temporary thing caused by reduced herd populations and tariffs on Brazilian imports, but will likely last a lot longer than the egg supply costs because herds take longer to repopulate than chicken broods.
It's inane to expect everything to change prices in lockstep. We use averages to smooth over distortions in one area to get a better idea of what's going on more broadly (i.e. are increased prices part of a broader inflationary trend, or is one area seeing a unique spike?).
BussyGyatt@feddit.org · 2 pts · 358d
"we" are using a different meaning of the word average I think. When I say mean, the point is to give an idea of where the "center" of the dataset is, not what the dataset is shaped like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_averages
That's an interesting thing to say. Tell me more about that.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 356d
Inflation is a measure of how the value of money changes over time, and the point is to guide monetary policy to increase or decrease the supply of money. The main impact of inflation measures is to impact borrowing rates, since that's the principle driver of money supply.
Inflation measures are not intended to measure how much eggs cost or what to expect your grocery bill to look like. It can be used for that, but a single number will never be sufficient.
A 2.7% inflation doesn't mean everything is around 2.7% more expensive, it means that if you look at the average spending across all areas for an average person (again, not an actual person, but the mean), they will spend 2.7% more this year vs last. That could be from rent, groceries, sporting goods, etc. How much you are impacted depends on what areas you spend more in. If eggs are up and you're vegan, you won't be impacted much at all, but if beans are up, you'll be impacted more than most.
Prices fluctuate for a variety of reasons, inflation just indicates how much of that is likely due to money being devalued.
BussyGyatt@feddit.org · 1 pts · 356d
yeah thanks i don't need a primer on federal reserve monetary policy from the guy who thinks "smoothing distortions over a region" and [compressing the entire dataset to a single point approximating the center of that dataset] are equivalent statements. i talked about what it was actually good for not what it is being used for.
edit: turned false quotation into paraphrase, clarity, added links
Lucky_777@lemmy.world · 49 pts · 360d
Lab grow all meats. Problem solved. Too bad Trump and his stupid MAGA base are against it. Timeline blows.
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml · 50 pts · 360d
Lab grown meat isn't currently scalable at that level. Wish it were but unfortunately not. Consider not eating meat đ it's cheaper
Aneb@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 360d
I mix my meat with veggies and carbs to make it go longer
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 360d
I think thats just called a balanced diet man /s
edgemaster72@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 360d
Nah, that's not balanced yet. You gotta take the combined weight of all that other stuff, and eat twice that in bread and carbs.
this post brought to you by the old food pyramid
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 360d
that's just a food triangle, now square that amount of carbs and we've got a pyramid. i took geometry duh
lazyViking@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 360d
Which has the added benefit of tasting super nice
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
it's more of a seasoning now
surph_ninja@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 360d
Then why are states banning it on behalf of Big Ag lobbyists? If itâs not a threat, why would they?
Delphia@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 360d
Because it isnt households that want it, its the big companies that make processed meat products or burger chains. If moving to lab grown saves McDonalds 5 cents per burger thats 127 million dollars a year. Imagine how much chicken companies that make cheap breaded nuggets use...
The moment it becomes financially viable to build their own factory they will.
surph_ninja@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 360d
My household wants it, and Iâve spoken to many others who want it. And theyâre specifically banning it from sale to direct consumers.
Delphia@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 359d
Ill rephrase "it isnt the average household" Lemmy skews hard left, go on facebook and see any discussion about lab grown or plant based and read the "I'll never buy this shit" from people who you KNOW wont check the ingredients list before dunking the chicken nuggets into their trolley or their cookies into their trolley if they figure out plant based eggs...
surph_ninja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
The thing about products without any demand is that you donât have to ban them. People just wonât buy them.
You only have to ban things when theyâre in demand.
rain_enjoyer@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 360d
as if republicans needed a reason to placate idiots with their legislation
Denalduh@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 360d
Because here in America we longer innovate, we litigate.
topherclay@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
It can still cut into profits even if it isn't scalable to being a full solution and it is still worth it for consumers even if it can't be worth it for every consumer.
All this can still be true even if "lab grow all meats. problem solved" is not true (or at least not possible, even if it is a logically valid construction).
surph_ninja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
Well then you should present your research to the Big Ag companies, and cash your massive check. Apparently you know something they donât.
topherclay@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 359d
Hmm I really don't think you understood me at all or else I just really don't understand what you're trying to say lol.
NeilBru@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
I literally will become anemic if I don't eat meat. I grew up vegetarian for religious reasons; it was hell until my doctor worked with a nutritionist when I was a kid and determined that my body just needs the complex protein density that is provided in lean meat.
That being said, considering the global catastrophe that is the way we produce and distribute meat as a civilization, I'm happy to pay high prices for quality and (to the extent any can be) ethically produced cuts.
Of course,
<redacted>tariff wars will hurt extra to me and others like myself.outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 360d
NeilBru@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 359d
Not enough
long-chain proteinamino acids per gram. Though I do eat (and drink, re: broth) those foods.outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 359d
NeilBru@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
Yes, a severe lack of protein can cause anemia. Anemia is a condition characterized by a shortage of healthy red blood cells or a low level of hemoglobin, the protein in red blood cells that carries oxygen.
Here's why protein deficiency can lead to anemia:
While iron deficiency is the most common cause of nutritional anemia worldwide, other deficiencies, including a lack of protein, vitamin B12, and folate, can also be significant contributing factors. In severe cases, such as in individuals with protein-energy malnutrition, anemia is a common and serious complication.
My individual biochemistry is such that I need meat to remain vital and at a healthy body weight.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 359d
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 359d
the lies we tell ourselves are not convincing to others. if you're up to your neck in bullshit and you're happy, keep your mouth closed.
NeilBru@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
What?!
And how do you plan to keep my mouth closed, tough guy?
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 359d
Patches@ttrpg.network · 13 pts · 360d
Why would a capitalist company making fake beef be any less inclined to upcharge on fake beef compared to real beef?
They both have lines that must go up.
Nawor3565@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 360d
Sure, but if no one can afford to buy artificially inflated real meat prices, that's a good reason to sell fake beef at a price where people can afford it.... And THEN you start to increase the price of that too, but only once a Democrat is president so people can freak out like they did with egg prices
doingthestuff@lemy.lol · 6 pts · 360d
It's not like it's on store shelves. It has to exist in the realm of reality before the public can weigh in to determine its corporate viability/profitability.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 6 pts · 360d
It's available in at least 1 restaurant. But it is also completely outlawed in at least 2 states with more trying to ban it.
lazyViking@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 360d
? How is it outlawed? First time I hear this đ±
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 5 pts · 360d
It's been made illegal to sell in Florida and Alabama and Texas is about to follow suit.
kautau@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 359d
7 states. Blame the huge corporate Ag industry lobbying against it.
https://stateline.org/2025/06/30/texas-becomes-seventh-state-to-ban-lab-grown-meat/
So many good things in our country have come from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
/s in case that wasnât clear
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
figure out the bovine serum problem
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 6 pts · 360d
Use fucking anesthesia? đ€·ââïž
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 360d
the biggest issue is that there's no vegan, or even affordable alternative.
so that's like using a full can of high grade foie gras to make a sliver of "vegan" duck breast.
original typo was "Fuck breast", and i debated leaving it there
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 360d
Beef, in particular, has experienced an intense price shock following a national shortage of cattle, with the national herd at a 73-year low.
This stems from severe drought conditions that have been plaguing the cattle-heavy mountain west for the better part of the last decade. Higher feed prices have also contributed to rising prices. But even beyond that, demand for beef continues to outpace the supply, driving prices upward as the raw supply of cattle falls.
I guess vegans can kinda-sorta rejoice. We're killing fewer cows and wasting less animal product, as the conditions of our country making herding both environmentally and ecologically unsustainable. This has spurred more investment into alt-meats, while also forcing states to grapple with how they're expending diminished water reserves.
But since we live in a plutocracy, I'm not sure we'll get better policy out of these material changes to the ecology. Mark Zuckerberg can keep force-feeding his Austin steers buckets of macadamia nuts while his AI factors belch CO^2^ and guzzle potable water long after the rest of us are living in Gaza-like conditions.
cogman@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 360d
We've been importing beef primarily from Brazil to make up the shortfall. Guess what country got a 50% tariff that has stuck?
thermal_shock@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 360d
Because they're "not nice to us". Lmao. Fucking peach pedophile there.
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net · 10 pts · 360d
I switched to being a vegetarian proper about a year ago, and its been a little validating that my grocery bills went down even when meat was more affordable, but now is dramatically cheaper since Quorn and Impossible meat haven't inflated in price at all (and are even more affordable when picked up in bulk on sale for the freezer).
Those two alternatives are astonishingly good, even enabling me to convert my lifelong meat eating family to vegetarianism which was unreal to see. I can't even tell I'm not eating meat in all the meat-based dishes I use them in, they're so damn good. Also nice to avoid the increased cancer risk from red meat.
For anyone else reading this, I massively recommend giving those two meat alternatives a shot. Impossible is 1-to-1, and the Quorn only needs a good vegan bullion cube of whatever meat you're trying to replicate (or Marmite for Beef flavor) and it's perfect for anything.
Dasus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
Finland has been having "sorry for the beef shortage" signs on the shelves for at least like a month and a half. Less now, but for the last month or a couple
Serinus@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 360d
I'm gonna drop this here. No reason. Probably the same no reason they chose this topic last week.
Planet Money (podcast)
What happens when governments cook the books
August 8, 202510:48 PM ET
By Mary Childs, Sally Helm, Jess Jiang, Sam Yellowhorse Kesler
https://www.npr.org/2025/08/08/1256971798/bls-bureau-labor-statistics-greece-argentina
moistclump@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
Yes, thank you! I wish I could upvote you twice. Itâs immediately what I thought of, especially some of the methods governments can use to shift inflation numbers. Great episode, would recommend people listen given its relevance.
balderdash9@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 359d
The American economy is three pyramid schemes in a trench coat
FragrantGarden@lemmy.today · 14 pts · 361d
Not the most fair comparison. Cattle herd is smallest it's been in 60+ years and prices haven't gone high enough to reduce demand enough that the herd can rebound yet. You'll see higher beef prices for another 2 years before things calm down again.
aow@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 361d
Cattle numbers are definitely down, but monopolization of ranching has been carrying on at a pretty good clip as well. I think it's a safe bet that the new point of equilibrium they find will still be more expensive, even inflation adjusted. There's a similar trend across most agribusiness that I've seen, especially with farms going out of business in droves because of the pandemic.
Lumisal@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 360d
Cattle numbers are also down because of Trump btw. Long term effect from his 1st presidency + his current policies helped the screw worm flies get through Panama.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 361d
It was just announced yesterday that inflation is up 3.3%.
wewbull@feddit.uk · -2 pts · 360d
Still not 60% as per OPs example.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 360d
I know, but it's the true inflation rate, and I want to make sure EVERYBODY sees it, especially MAGA Nazis.
3.3% this month, up from 2.7% last month. Great job HitlerPig.
sus@programming.dev · 3 pts · 360d
it's actually fits 3%.. PER MONTH
april '24 to august '25 is 16 months
1.03^16^ = 1.605
$49.24 * 1.6 = $78.78
onlyhalfminotaur@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
It's not per month. The "published" figures per month are usually like 0.2-0.4
Tja@programming.dev · 1 pts · 360d
Ops example would show 31%, if it was statistically significant at all.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 359d
We're both wrong.
$16\lb Ă· $11\lb is 1.4545 or 145.5%. 45.5% inflation.
My mistake was looking at the total price. I'm not sure what yours was.
Tja@programming.dev · 1 pts · 358d
45% inflation over a year and a quarter (April to August of next year)
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 360d
The purpose of a system is what it does. Inflation isn't just temporarily malfunctioning - it's a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
Ohmmy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 360d
You're spot on because inflation is what allows the whole thing to work. If instead there was rapid deflation on the trillions of debt held by Americans it would cause many to default.
But hell, talking about inflation is so weird because to most I feel like it just means the things people buy are now more expensive. Things are more expensive because people are able/willing to pay more, they're just in the losing side of the disparity. It wasn't inflation of the dollar that caused housing prices in places like Phoenix to climb over the past 20 years, it was people with more money than them moving in from places like California.
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 360d
You're a fucking genius! Just pay less for things and inflation will go down!
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 359d
2.7% for the rich, they don't care what the serfs eat
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 360d
Eh, 49 + 2.7 = 76 ; close enough
/s
Microw@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 361d
If you take the timeframe between these two photos and apply a monthly inflation rate of 2.7, you would land at 70,5$ for August 2025. Now obviously either the inflation was higher in some month in between, or the vendor just hiked the price. But the general drift is correct.
Mim@lemmy.zip · 54 pts · 361d
Inflation rate usually is given in yearly rates. Things have to be absolutely fucked if you have to give them in monthly rates.
oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 361d
I mean our country is beyond fucked so that tracks
Mim@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 361d
F
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 37 pts · 361d
I don't think the inflation rate is supposed to be compounded on a month to month basis. 2.7 is supposed to track changes in the consumer price index over the course of the entire year.
Microw@piefed.zip · -2 pts · 360d
At least here in central europe, inflation rate is always monthly
PartyAt15thAndSummit@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 360d
Unless you live in a country with hyperinflation, it's always month x of year y, compared to month x of year y-1.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 360d
No. It's calculated each month for the previous 12 months.
BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 361d
Inflation is usually by the estimate it would be through the year though.
Microw@piefed.zip · -1 pts · 360d
Not in my country
davidagain@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
Like everyone else who's responding to you, I think you are mixing up monthly reporting of inflation since the same month the previous year (which is a sensible like-for-like comparison) with inflation since the previous month, which is almost always a silly and misleading figure because prices have seasonal change through the year.
Media tend to report this as stuff like "inflation dropped in January" but they don't mean since December, there are always January sales, that isn't useful information.
Microw@piefed.zip · 2 pts · 360d
Yeah I got the memo by now, but thanks for the in depth explaination
davidagain@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
I wish everyone on social media (including myself) dealt with disagreement in as mature and level headed way as you.
You have my respect, thoughtful internet stranger.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 9 pts · 360d
Inflation isn't monthly. It's a rolling annual figure.
AeonFelis@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
It is - if you want to make the number appear smaller. You can make it even smaller if you measure it daily!
zululove@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 359d
Grow your own food.
Start supporting your local animal farms and find yourself a butcher.
Itâs time to become self dependent and we are in a unique period of time where we have the knowledge and material to do it on an individual and hopefully local level.
A lot of people already do this, just not the ones in your circle!
Snothvalpen@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 359d
Hi, I live in a rented apartment, what can I do?
zululove@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 359d
Hmm thatâs tuff bro.
have to get creative.
Look up urban farming and still try get to know everyone at your local farmers market.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 360d
Thatâs right . . . Big smile . . . Eeeeverybodyâs happy . . .
Meron35@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 360d
As much as it fun to rag on supposedly out of touch economists, this "cheapflation" phenomenon is very documented and accepted among mainstream economists. Like many others in the public sector, government economists have been calling for more suitable and timely measures of inflation for decades, only to have their requests for more funding and support denied as the public service falls apart.
Price discounts and cheapflation during the post-pandemic inflation surge - ScienceDirect - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304393224000977
surph_ninja@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
Thatâs not âinflation.â Thatâs tariffs. And it wasnât âinflationâ under Biden. It was price gouging.
Fuck, I wish some of yâall would read a book once in a while.
bollybing@lemmynsfw.com · -1 pts · 360d
Tariffs cause inflation. Price gouging also causes inflation.
surph_ninja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
âInflationâ doesnât just mean âprices go up.â Again, please read a fucking book.
bollybing@lemmynsfw.com · 0 pts · 359d
It pretty much does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation?wprov=sfla1
surph_ninja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
No, profit percentages remain relatively flat during inflationary increases. Thatâs not what weâre seeing at all. Profit percentages are at an all-time high.
crazyminner@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 360d
Good I hope it keeps going up until the murderers can't pay for it and the whole industry dies out.
Texas_Hangover@lemmy.radio · 1 pts · 361d
I used to love me some new York strip âčïž I can do some amazing shit with chuck roast these days tho.
Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 361d
Honestly, chuck is great. I'm cutting weight, and trying to maintain muscle mass. I just make a big roast, portion it out into 180g servings (50g protein each), and make poor man's steak sandwiches out of them. It's generally tender, and not bad at all.
That, and you can use it for high protein stews etc.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 361d
Go to Texas Roadhouse. You can get a strip for under 30 bucks and sides. Somehow their prices are still reasonable.
spankmonkey@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 361d
National restaurants buy ingredients in massive volumes at a steep discount compared to grocery stores and even butchers.
Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 361d
yeah the high end restaurant, Fallow, in the UK made a video on how they are able to make a profit on beef. Basically, they buy whole sides, butcher it in house, make all the beef dinner something people expect to pay extra for, but keep the price within reasonable expectations.
Chain places probably have a similar operation, but instead of one side at a time, and in house butchering, they are buying 1000's of sides, and making year+ length contracts with a meat packing corporation.
ThePantser@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 361d
That's bullshit because grocery stores buy them in larger bulk and should be cheaper. The whole idea of cooking at home is supposed to be cheaper and it's the labor you pay for at a restaurant. How have we swung completely backwards to where a restaurant is cheaper than cooking at home?
spankmonkey@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 361d
Grocery stores don't sell as many steaks in a day as a busy steak restaurant does. They also sell all of the other parts of a cow and have competing food items for sale as well. Plus they pay their staff higher wages because they aren't tipped and have other overhead costs that impact all of the things they sell.
Restaurants are all about quickly moving a comparatively smaller number of items as quickly as possible. That means they buy specific types of things in bulk and have lower costs to get them to the customer.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 361d
Makes sense. Still a good deal because they are the only chain steak place that cooks them properly.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 359d
Meat isn't food, it is a luxury good made by refining mountains of actual food through the body of a vulnerable individual. Of fucking COURSE it's expensive. It's been cheep for decades because you pay for it in your taxes and I'm fucking sick of paying so much money so you can have cheap meat. Fucking deal with it.
hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 361d
Meat should be too expensive for daily consumption
corvi@lemmy.zip · 104 pts · 361d
Maybe, but that should be due to removal of subsidies and banning of factory farms, not rampant inflation.
hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 21 pts · 361d
Fair
Ledivin@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 361d
...are you under the impression that this is restricted to meat?
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 360d
are you under the impression that the OP picture includes flax and machine parts?
Wolf314159@startrek.website · -17 pts · 361d
njm1314@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 361d
Not even close to what straw man means
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 361d
It basically is
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network · 7 pts · 361d
This is an extremely monkey's paw post if I've ever seen one.
(I tend to agree that meat is too cheap and has many externalized costs that we all bear, though.)
hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -2 pts · 361d
*insert Thanos balance meme*
GraveyardOrbit@lemmy.zip · -13 pts · 361d
Honytawk@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 361d
Yes, but it was never daily until a couple of decades ago.
Before you had like 3 meals a week with meat.
Ledivin@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 361d
How much meat do you believe humans have been consuming for most of that existence?
Makeshift@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 361d
Something isn't 'right' just because we've been doing it for a long time. We have the knowledge and tools now to improve ourselves.
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network · 6 pts · 361d
Right? Slavery was common for a very long time. People used to just dump shit in the water in early cities and cause cholera outbreaks. Lots of old practices are no longer done for good reason
grillgamesh@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -12 pts · 361d
okay v*g*n.
Makeshift@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 359d
It's okay, you are allowed to say vegan on the internet. Just don't show your parents if you're worried about them seeing it.
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 360d
Enjoy your bowel cancer and odor
higgsboson@piefed.social · 3 pts · 360d
Pretty weak argument, that. Humans have also been murdering, raping, and enslaving other humans for our entire existence.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -7 pts · 360d
Economic "measurements" are one of worst pseudo-scientific grifts out there. Inflation is perhaps the peak example.
Also carnism is disgusting, unsustainable, inefficient, and literally destroying the planet. I hope meat becomes completely unaffordable as it would be without massive violent enforcement.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 360d
Dop@sh.itjust.works · -8 pts · 361d
Erm, price /lb goes from 10.99 to 15.99, sure, but it doesn't explaik how tf total price goes from ~$49 to ~$78 for only 0.4lb more of meat?!
Lumisal@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 360d
Yes, it does, it's literally basic math.
49.24Ă·4.48=10.99
78.03Ă·4.88=15.99
Jhex@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
Witchcraft!
@Dop ... probably
Dop@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 360d
Must've been pretty sleep depraved when i wrote that comment O.O thanks for taking the time to reply
Lumisal@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
No problem, figured that was the case since it's happened to me too