For those say in their 60s or 70s here. When you were in your 30's or 40's did you have the feeling that the world was a fucked up place? So much has been going on since I entered adulthood in the early 2000s and I feel like it's getting more and more intense. It's never ending.
Is it unique? Or has it always been this way?
144 Comments
RedCarCastle@aussie.zone · 118 pts · 151d
Always has been, the big difference is it wasn't streamed straight into your eyes in real time
Eldritch@piefed.world · 20 pts · 151d
Yep, only in my 50s but this is correct. All the shit under Reagan, Nixon etc, decades of meddling in the middle east before that. A century of oppressing South America. All the labor struggles. It's like the increase in the diagnosed cases of autism. The number of cases didn't increase. Only our awareness.
AskewLord@piefed.social · 10 pts · 151d
Yep, you had to get out of bed, and walk a few miles, if you wanted to see public torture and humiliation of others.
But executions and all that were public events. Not behind closed doors like today.
starlinguk@lemmy.world · 60 pts · 151d
No, no it was not.
Example: when they found out what caused the hole in the ozone layer, they fixed it.
If we found out now, people would say that you can't trust Big Academia or Big Science and nothing would be done. And don't get me started on vaccinations.
We're sliding rapidly backwards.
People who say it isn't are just too lazy to do anything.
LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 151d
Stopping climate change is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE harder than protecting the ozone layer. Protecting ozone requires switching the chemicals we used in refrigerants and propellants to other, viable alternatives. That affected products worth, generously, maybe 1% of GDP?
Stopping climate changing the vast majority of the vehicles on the planet, along with the majority of our electrical power plants. It also necessitates stopping deforestation and overhauling a wide number of industrial processes, including for basic materials like steel and concrete. And that's not even getting into methane emissions from livestock.
All of these things add up to a massive chunk of the planets GDP. It's an extremely heavy lift, and it's not fair to say that the world has gotten worse because we're struggling more with climate change than the ozone hole.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 10 pts · 151d
I feel @starlinguk@lemmy.world was saying more than that. I don't recall any serious studies or news articles suggesting the ozone hole was a hoax or that debunking a human cause. Although it was kinda an aside but the anti vaxine thing he points to. I mean one of the most effective medical interventions since soap and sterilization has people acting like its some sort of evil witchcraft that will actually harm you despite the clear evidence both clinical and personal to its effectiveness.
LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 151d
I don't know of any for the ozone hole specifically, but you can look to the fight over cigarettes to see the same science-denying approach during the 50s and beyond. That was literally the blueprint for climate change denial by the fossil fuel industry in later decades.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 3 pts · 151d
I think that is an apt comparison and it just outlines the things to me. We really did not know smoking was bad till the 40's and the 50's is when it was much more conclusive and the industry was able to push off legislation for like a decade into the 60's. The greenhouse effect although known for awhile similarly did not really become conclusive till the 50's and still it was like the late eighties when congressional hearings brought it more into the us public sphere although many folk still did not really know about it till gores 2006 movie put it more into the common culture. The industry fud started with the congressional hearings when there was indication it might lead to regulation. So they have pretty effectively stalled it for the most part for over 30 years! In addition we have had some regulation and then had it pulled back. I think it really highlights the decline compared to before when you look at cigarettes compared to greenhouse gases.
LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 151d
I guess. You could also look at things like plastic pollution where industry straight up won, and during the 60s-70s successfully pushed the responsibility onto consumers to recycle while continuing to crank out single use plastic with very few restrictions.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 151d
I don't think the industry did much there. Consumers were not exactly avoiding plastics. There was kinda a few attempts to avoid them but they did not really go anywhere except for maybe the reusable shopping bags. I have to say I used to love and get the 16 ounce pop bottles that had the deposit that you got back when you brought them back. I would be buying them now if the pop industry had not phased them out. Was still able to get them even in the first year or so of the 90's. That ones a hard comparison.
ButteryMonkey@piefed.social · 1 pts · 151d
My local grocery carries deposit-bottle drinks of some varieties (mostly milk and soda, both of which are produced locally, sometimes tea and other drinks), so they are still around in some cases. I’m also a big fan of grolsch beer because it comes in nice swing-top bottles that are great for use as a home brewer, or for making sauces or whatever you may like them for. The beer itself isn’t that good imo, but it’s basically free with the purchase of bottles, as that’s basically the cheapest way to get swing-top bottles of that size.
Very importantly, only the one grocery store carries the glass bottle soda, though there are 4 others within a 10-minute range. So it’s entirely possible that there is somewhere near you that has it and you just aren’t aware of it.
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 151d
But there were a lot of news articles suggesting at that time that global warming was overrated.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 151d
But at that time the science was just solidifying so overrated was not that contrary to say its overrated or inconclusive or something. Its like at one point there was a microbiologist that thought hiv was a passenger virus and did not cause aids. Which at the time was reasonable given koch's postulates although they are basically impossible to apply to aids but eventually we had some much evidence built up that it became moot. Which is very similar with global warming. Someone might say we don't know enough or have done enough studies and that might be reasonable in the 50's but becomes silly by the 90's
AA5B@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 150d
No one could see the ozone hole. We had to believe science and everyone did.
meanwhile climate change is not just easier to understand, but becoming apparent in everyday life. There’s been an overwhelming consensus in science for half a century. How do people still doubt? Or what kind of hatred could make you actively resist changes to mitigate it?
village604@adultswim.fan · 1 pts · 151d
At least in the US there are more trees now than when the settlers landed at Plymouth Rock.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 151d
I find this hard to believe.
village604@adultswim.fan · 1 pts · 151d
It certainly is, but it makes sense if you know about logging practices.
Generally, logging companies will cycle through parcels of land and replant parcels that have been clear cut so they can have guaranteed lumber in the future without having to negotiate new leases and such.
And with the massive amount of protected forests, the places they're allowed to cut is way less than it used to be.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 151d
I mean maybe. If you count little seedlings or such. there was this thing about how a squirrel could go from one ocean to the other without ever touching the ground. I mean the logging practices prior to the settlers landing on plymouth rock were pretty anemic. I mean the natives had few buildings. All our towns and cities and buildings in general were for the most part forest or prarie and even prarie had trees especially long water sources like lakes and rivers.
grue@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 151d
You've been told a racist lie. Native Americans -- especially ones in the forested parts of the country -- had plenty of agriculture, and at its peak in the 12th Century, Cahokia (the largest city we know about north of Mesoamerica) may have had a larger population than London or Paris did at the time.
What actually happened was that the natives caught old-world diseases from the earliest explorers and colonists, which set off a continent-wide pandemic so virulent that, by a few decades later when the European settlers really started showing up in earnest, something like 90-99% of them were dead and their towns had been reclaimed by nature.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 151d
Two things:
Native peoples very much built buildings.
Lots of where towns are now in the south and in the plains weren’t prairie as is commonly thought, they were lowlands populated with bamboo.
grue@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 151d
TIL not all bamboo is from Asia. Is there a good/easy way to tell Arundinaria apart from invasive bamboo? There's a vacant lot near my house with a ton of bamboo on it, and your comment gives me a slim hope that it might be something other than a noxious weed that needs remediation.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 151d
ok. So just to be clear we just care about if there are technically more trees like saplings in tree farms than any type of environmental thing yeah?
LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
I don't think that's true, we have more trees than we did 100 years ago but I couldn't see anything about more trees than pre-European settlement. I am inclined to doubt that.
theherk@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 151d
You must realize terrible stuff was happening over that time period too. Yes, there is a ton of regression happening right now, but compared to any other time in history some things are better some are worse. One can probably select any two points in modern history and say the same. There are always great and terrible things happening.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 151d
I think it depends how we slice it. last century compared to previous. yeah will take this century. this quarter century to the quarter century before. Ill take before. I mean if we are at the tail of of a falling post world war 2 blip that is not a great thing.
bluGill@fedia.io · 4 pts · 151d
People said the same we can't fix it about the ozone layer.
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 151d
But it was still done. Regulations were put in place and corporations were made to comply.
Tje only place that still happens is here in Europe, and I'm afraid that might begin to deminish soon.
TheWeirdestCunt@lemmy.today · 36 pts · 151d
We didn't start the fire was written for this exact reason. Billy Joel was talking to someone 20 years younger than him who said that when he was 20 more stuff had happened than when Billy Joel was 20, so he just started listing all the stuff that had happened before he was 20 and then expanded it into the song.
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 151d
If only Fall Out Boy wrote the update better.
MintyFresh@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 150d
You've never had smallpox.
You probably have never been hungry. Famine used to be a thing that just happened every ten years or so.
You've probably always had ready access to drinking water.
There's always been wars, people doing terrible things. Slavery and genocide are pretty much par for the course whatever the ethnicity/region.
By most metrics this is the safest time to be alive.
But ya, shits pretty fucked still. So I say we all wake up tomorrow and try and do a little better.
baahb@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 150d
Didn't know I needed some good old fashioned pessimism to ground me today. Thanks!
hanrahan@slrpnk.net · 28 pts · 150d
Im 59, it was just easier to plead ignorance back then. Hell, beating gays was seen as ok, raping your wife was quite legal, fucking kids was mostly ok, racism was seen as humour, my mother took up teaching as she said the other career she considered forced you to leave if you got married (bank teller).
We slaughtered people all over the place with impunity, overthrew governments. Same as today really.
My mistake? I assumed it would get much better when my cohort of Gen X came through, same as young millennials think today. It's not worse, it's just we're more aware.
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 150d
TBF the same generation has been in power for 30-40 years now. If the torch had actually been passed it would be a different timeline.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 150d
I mean, your cohort still hates trans people and isn't sold on the rest of the rainbow even if you aren't rabid homophobes anymore
edit: ooo, downvotes from folk whose favorite game growing up was smear the queer
WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social · 5 pts · 150d
It’s not nice to generalise people. That’s why you’re getting downvoted.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 150d
by people like you who are unfamiliar with the word cohort? that's fine.
maybe, just maybe, go look at statistics around this shit. i have worked for years in homelessness. i know exactly what i'm talking about. gen X wants to think they solved their homophobia problem, how did they treat their queer peers in school? could their classmates come out? Fuck no. Not until after graduation. How DO they treat their queer family members, siblings and children? do they accept them or shun them? less than 30% of gen X parented families accept them in our area. I'm in the san fuckingcisco bay area and gen x folk fled here to texas because they were not accepted. We're known for being the one of gay capitals of the world but local gen x queer kids have had to flee because of their families. don't even start
WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social · 3 pts · 150d
So, by your own admission, a percentage of Gen X parents are accepting of LGBTQ+ kids.
I don’t care where you’re from, some people will be dick heads and some won’t.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 150d
remind me, how many posts are you upvoting and cheering on about all americans being idiots because 22% of the population voted for trump
WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social · 5 pts · 150d
I’m friends with a few USA people. I know that they aren’t all idiots. So….next.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 150d
so call them out when you see them and take the lumps. stop being part of the hivemind. what does the percentage have to be for you to care? or do you just have to be part of the group that's called out?
WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social · 2 pts · 150d
You make up whatever you like in that little head of yours, my friend.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 150d
my dude, i don't lie. just because some of us have actually done shit with our lives, it gives us access to this kind of information. programming, uh, you get to draw catgirls and i see why you don't understand.
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 150d
I’m not downvoting you, but you have to understand: yes, I vividly remember playing the game. I didn’t even know why it was called that, or what it meant. We were kids and we played a playground game (which was pretty fun). Looking back on the name, yeah, yuck. We also played a game called “Barf It”; the game had a name and the words didn’t mean much.
There are lots of Gen X allies out there and things that were a product of the time don’t define us all today.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 150d
yeah, i just had to talk a gen X "ally's" son out of suicide because they're great with the LGB but T? get the hell out of our house and the son is ftm. and this shit is not uncommon. miss me with this ally talk
SparroHawc@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 150d
So there are a lot of allies, but this guy's asshole family isn't actually one. Just because this is common doesn't negate the existence of actual allies. Remember, anecdotes are not statistics. It can be a reason to be cautious, but it is not a reason to deny the existence of a group.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 150d
my dude, that was one incident. i am posting all up and down the fediverse about working with homelessness. why do you think i was talking with the son. how many of these do you want because i have hundreds. i have been doing this since i was... fuck. i can't remember not working with homelessness charities. it's just something my family has done. the biggest shelter in town is literally on a street named after me.
SparroHawc@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 150d
Goddam, Minnesota. Huge props to your work. You have my admiration.
For it to be data rather than anecdotes, you need to gather the data. Survey not just the examples you have, but the people outside of the demographics you work with. Form the questions in a way that gathers the data you really want - split it out to give you granularity. Are you a member of gen X? Are you LGBT+ yourself? Do you consider yourself an ally? Do you support the gay community? Do you support the lesbian community? Do you support the trans community?
Right now, the cohort you have the most experience with is the people who have suffered, which will skew your conclusions. However, this is the anecdotal evidence that tells you something is fishy. The next step is to get actual statistics.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 150d
my dude, i ran the organization for two decades (it's why they put the shelter on a street with my name on it) i have the statistics. just the ones i have are a decade old. I had to retire due to disability.
this is literally my wheelhouse.
AA5B@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 150d
I doubt. Maybe I can’t generalize from my own ignorance, but we had no idea what this was referring to. It was no different than “kill the guy with the ball”, but my mom didn’t like us talking about killing our friends and brothers
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 150d
ignorance is no excuse for your bigotry
AA5B@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 150d
It’s exactly analogous to someone using the n word because that was common usage at the time time, compared to using it now when all the negative associations are clear and (most) usage is not acceptable. Not the same at all
lemmy_outta_here@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 150d
True story: growing up i thought « to gyp » was just kid’s language for « to cheat someone ». i had no idea it was pejorative until i was an adult. no one was telling me Roma people were bad - i didn’t even know the connection. young people today would probably call me a racist for using that term as a kid, but i legitimately had no idea, and i will never use the term again now that i know.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 150d
damn, you went straight from Queer to Nigg--? what the fuck? you are not slaves and not that oppressed. get over yourself
AA5B@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 150d
Not at all. I’m a sheltered white dude, oblivious in my security. But it’s important to point out that ignorance is a thing: we should know better but didn’t always.
Using offensive/insulting terms ignorantly may be wrong but it’s not the same as intentionally
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 150d
that comparison is incredibly offensive and you should know better. You have never been ripped from your continent and your history and enslaved just for loving people. Black people have for the color of their skin. Queer does not equal Nigg-- and you fucking know that
or you don't and you're a racist maga. pick. this is one of those things that ain't got middle ground.
manxu@piefed.social · 24 pts · 150d
The world was always fucked up, but we had a sense it was improving. That's what has changed, majorly. We started having the feeling that as bad as it is, it is only going to get worse.
IWW4@lemmy.zip · 24 pts · 151d
OP keep this in mind.
During and 18 month period in the early 1970s there was an average of five domestic terrorist bombings in the US every day. Think about that.. five a day was the average.
HuudaHarkiten@piefed.social · 5 pts · 151d
Ah, that does warm my European heart.
The world is on fire, climate change looks to be a thing that will just happen, wars, everything getting more expensive with no hope in sight... but at least the US has less bombings!
I get that things have been shitty all the time, but generally the direction has been towards better things. I dunno if we reached a point where things are as good as it gets and getting better is more and more difficult, but I personally feel that things are in some sort of a turning point. I know I'm a grumpy fuck, but I've really tried to always look on the bright side of life (whistle) but I haven't really found anything worth looking forwards to. Plaargh.
Chippys_mittens@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 151d
Generica@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 150d
I'm 57 in the US and up until the last ten years I always thought that things would get better in my lifetime and that ultimately my country would eventually choose the right financial and moral paths. Now I not only don't believe that will happen in my lifetime but I doubt if this nation will bounce back in my kid's lifetime, if ever.
RBWells@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 150d
Same age, same thoughts. The past was violent & sucky but it really felt like we were making progress, things were getting better. Some things have, there's a lot less violence where I live, and more to do, the city has progressed.
Honestly I think the slide started after Bush vs Gore, and very often wish I had been in the other timeline, where the votes got counted before he conceded, Gore seemed conceited but smart, geeky and took good ideas seriously.
rammer@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 150d
I've never understood the concept of conceding an election before all the votes have been counted and verified. It's like the voters and their votes don't matter. And instead all that matters is the spectacle of it.
Fortunately there's less of that here than in the US.
btsax@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 149d
It was part of the spectacle and formality of the peaceful transition of power, something that got shot to hell around 2020 or so for some reason or other.
AA5B@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 150d
Yeah, Lemmy was always so pessimistic about the future, but everything was looking up. Lots of reasons for hope that tomorrow would be better than yesterday, my kids would inherit a better world and make it even better.
Then it all fell apart. The scary thing is not how ugly, immoral, hate filled, corrupt it is, but how quickly and easily it fell apart yet still has people supporting it
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 151d
Not an old person. But so to put into perspective:
My maternal grandmother was born in war-torn China after the japanese imperilists wrecked our country. Food was not even a guarantee... farming sucked...
My parents were born during the cultural revolution... the way they described stuff... all they had to eat was 番薯 (sweet potatoes?)... they say my generation had it better off...
I remember rations were said to be a common thing...
By my era, I had stable access to food. I remember being so picky and they scold me for me... "back in my day... all we had to eat was..."
I wanted more things to play with... its responded with... "back in my day... all we had to play with is..." (don't remember the answer but they played with like rocks or sticks or strings or stuff like that)
Literally... all the food would've been a luxury in their era...
So like... in a way... westerners having access to food is already not bad...
I mean y'all are not being invaded by imperial japanese...
y'all not being bombed by russians in Ukraine....
y'all not being bombed by israel in Gaza
so...
(I'm not saying you should accept status quo, just trying to think positively by looking into how bad it could get...)
-From an American Citizen originally born in China in 2002
Edit: I also wanna mention the problem with people who grow up under these conditions... they had to deal with so much "real issues" that the whole topic of mental health is never a thing to them... "just get over it" as my parents say...
UGH WTF...
So yea... the west have mental health acceptance... so consider yourselves lucky...
Quilotoa@lemmy.ca · 17 pts · 151d
This is actually one of the best times in human history.
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 151d
Not anymore. Conflict around the world has statistically shot way up. There's also a significant increase in political polarisation around the world.
fizzle@quokk.au · 7 pts · 151d
You're right on both counts.
Like most things though it depends what metric you're using.
Access to medical care for example is better than its ever been.
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
Only in specific parts of the world. Other parts have always been behind, or straight up non-existent, and in one country access to medical care is actually getting worse when it really has no reason to.
fizzle@quokk.au · 1 pts · 150d
I don't really understand. Some places may have less medical care than others but it's still better than it's ever been in those places.
Quilotoa@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 151d
I question that. In colonial times and in tribal times, there were huge amounts of conflicts. And conflicts is only a tiny part of how the world is running. Slavery, human rights, minority treatment, just laws, poverty, standard of living, etc. On average world wide, we are far better off. The majority of the people in the first world have luxuries that only kings and nobles used to have.
meejle@piefed.world · 3 pts · 151d
Those conflicts didn't have drone strikes though
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
Between the end of World War 2 and 2016 the world has seen a steady and significant decline in global conflict.
Immediately after 2016 that statistic has been shooting upward rather steeply.
Quilotoa@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 150d
That acounts for 65 of the 300 000 years humans have been alive.
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club · 3 pts · 151d
If you're comparing to a decade ago, yes. However, even with the increased number of wars, it is still more peaceful than before 1945.
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
Not more peaceful than 1945. The way things are going to total death toll of war will become comparable to WWII.
But between WWII and 2016 we have seen a decline of conflict. Now we're seeing an incredibly steep increase.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 151d
Exactly how?
Zak@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
Pick a metric of badness like rates of war death, childhood mortality, communicable disease, or extreme poverty.
They're all low now compared to most points we can estimate in human history. Look at an interval of a decade instead of a year to smooth out spikes from relatively small events.
Over half a million people have died in the Gaza and Ukraine wars, and that's terrible. It seems like now is pretty bad as far as war goes. World War 1 killed about 20 million. World War 2 killed about 80 million. The perspective is staggering.
A couple centuries ago, half of all children died before adulthood. Now it's 4.4%. One in 20 children not surviving their childhood is certainly tragic, but far less so than one in two.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 151d
All people will die, so does it really matter if its sooner than later? When the prospects of actually living are under the global control of the few? Their chances of having food, a stable climate, and freedom are getting reduced every year? When they will likely face servitude to those with wealth, a surveillance state, mass incarcerations, and if lucky simply become a wage slave?
Twenty years ago I might have agreed with you based on statistics. Now I don't think so.
Since you mentioned infant mortality, for the first time in twenty years the rate is getting worse. Worth noting that in the US Mortality rates are especially high in states where laws were passed to restrict abortions after overturning Roe V Wade. In Mississippi there was actually an emergency declared when the rate nearly hit 10%. It skews the statistics, but the point is that people are making horrible decisions.
This is not the US alone, although they are leading the way in misinformation, anti science, and populism for power. Its a global phenomenon, and does not bode well for people at all. Diseases are coming back, war is back, and the consequences of global energy and food dependence are extreme compared to the past.
Globally, it is estimated that about 7 million people will die prematurely every year from air quality alone. That means in just 3 years, more people will die from breathing than in WWI. And we are not doing anything about it, in fact globally it is just getting worse.
We have breached the boundaries of climate change, freshwater use, ocean acidification, and biological diversity. There has never been a worse time on the planet than right now.
Edit: this doesnt even begin to cover the issues of chemical persistence or plastics in nearly everything including our bodies. Nevermind PFA's and other forever chemicals.
Part of the issue isn't necessarily any one of these things, but seen as a whole, there is little to no will to fix it. Profit matters, and those with the most profit are setting the rules.
Zak@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
I think most people would rather die at the age of 90 from heart failure than at the age of 9 from smallpox.
Those are valid concerns, but the trends were moving in the right direction until recently. I'm concerned about backsliding too, but it's not clear whether we're seeing a long-term reversal or just some turbulence.
This is a picture of the Cuyahoga River on fire in 1969. Here's a look at the air in Los Angeles in the 1970s.
We've come a long way on environmental protection in the past half century. We still have a long way to go, and as with other issues, there has been some backsliding. I'm pretty optimistic about the long-term trend.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 150d
Believe me, I like your optimism.
If you are talking about the US, it is actively dismantling those protections now. I mean look at the fact that they are still growing corn(!) to make ethanol to put in gasoline. What a waste.
I agree LA looks better now than in the 70's, but even with all the effort it still is US's smoggiest city for 25th time in 26 years.
But look at all the other places were the pollution is dust and heavy metals like the Salt Lake in Utah. All the water diversion, and climate change, is going to come to a reckoning. Look at the water system that feeds LA (Owens Lake), it is the largest human-caused dust storm sources in the United States. They are trying to fix it, but what can be done?
This is happening all over the world. I think we are well beyond being able to mitigate this.
Warmest artic temperatures ever, with more than double the global rate of temperature change. Melting of permafrost and ice at an all time record high rate. Lowest sea level ice, June snow cover extent is half what it was 60 years ago. 200 Alaskan watersheds are now orange with iron and other elements that are polluting them that were not there a decade ago. Whole communities are being relocated and we are just starting to see the effects. Something like 250 million people will be displaced from rising water by 2050. 45 million people were displaced in 2024 from heat, with a projection of 2.8 billion likely to become heat refuges. The worst part of both of those things is that also means crops are going to be displaced too.
I believe all of this will cause the wealthiest to see opportunity to extract and plunder instead of understanding the implications and trying to mitigate it. I believe people will be convinced that they need to take it before someone else does. People seem extremely stupid or selfish. It makes me wonder if we aren't seeing long term covid brain at this point.
We could go on and on with environmental problems, and we are stating to see impacts like I mentioned before:
Youth and Young Adult mortality rates are increasing. Heat related mortality for people over 65 is up 85% since 2017. That's half a million people a year from it being too hot to live where they grew up.
I think we are way past the point of no return.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 151d
before internet, local problems remained local though. now everything is kind of in the same pot. I guess there are objectively less problems now than before, but before individual people had to deal with only local problems and maybe some from further away if things got really bad there.
tangible@piefed.social · 16 pts · 151d
JustTesting@lemmy.hogru.ch · 15 pts · 150d
I've just finished reading a very detailed book on 13-16 century renaissance history and yes, always fucked. Though less dark ages than you'd think and more fucked politics, same as now.
Plus we only really know the history of rich people up until very recently, so no telling how fucked the poors were.
SarahFromOz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 150d
Well fucked.
WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social · 1 pts · 150d
All part of the “worship the rich” thing, wouldn’t you say? It’s like, how many stately homes do you know of, versus working class houses for a particular period or relevant to when the local slate mine was open, for example, do you know of?
JustTesting@lemmy.hogru.ch · 5 pts · 150d
I wouldn't fully agree with that. There is some of that, but then also there's very little historical record of poor people. Up until like 1850ish, only rich people could really read/write, and their books and correspondence is what a lot of historical research is based on. And the rich people themselves didn't write about the filthy poors a lot. And there are historians that would very much like to study this topic, l but it's exceedingly difficult for lack of resources.
Now that said, there is quite a bit of bias still. Not just toward poor "unimportant" people, also towards women. E.g. Milan was ruled by the Visconti family, which was a powerful name back then. The last Visconti ruler died, leaving his son in law in power. He's called "Francesco I Sforza" in most history books, even though Sforza was kind of a minor name back then, and he himself would sign letters with the Visconti last name of his wife, Bianca Maria Visconti. And even his sons (and I think Grandsons) would still use the Visconti name. But because 18th and 19th century historians thought it's no good to refer to a man by the last name of his wife, and that the wife must have been unimportant anyways, this was the new Sforza reign, not the continued Visconti reign. But we have letters of her managing the whole city while he was off, of her disagreeing with him quite strongly and openly in letters, leading everything when her husband was ill, dealing with diplomacy and military affairs etc. So in a lot of ways they were reigning together, not one single strong man doing everything.
There is a growing group of historians that do study these kinds of things and it is slowly shifting. And I don't doubt that this also happens in regards to poor people, just less so due to lack of available sources. But of course there's also institutional pushback, nationalistic infighting, funding being assigned based on biases etc. it's not all rosy.
And I'm no historian, so this in large part based on the "inventing the Renaissance" book by Ada Palmer(History professor at Uni Chicago and also a really good scifi writer). It's an amazing read, not just about the period, the different power dynamics and personalities, stuff like homosexuality and atheism in the period etc., but in large part also on how historians work, how perceptions among historians changed through the ages, how some misconceptions (like "women aren't important") persisted for centuries. It's without a doubt the best history book I read in a long time and I can't recommend it highly enough.
WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social · 2 pts · 150d
This gave me a bit more understanding and made me reconsider my biases.
blarth@thelemmy.club · 15 pts · 150d
My dad regaled me with tales of the 60s/70s once. The JFK assassination, Vietnam war, the gas crisis, hyper inflation, 20% mortgage rates.
The older you get, you realize everything isn’t a world ending crisis. I think our 24/7 outrage-based media is responsible for a lot of FUD.
IcedRaktajino@startrek.website · 13 pts · 151d
The world is just as fucked up as it ever was. The only difference now is that every fucked-up thing that ever happens anywhere is getting pushed to your always-on doomscroll device in real time with people attaching their mostly ignorant opinions to it.
This is where the "touch grass" advice comes into play. In broad terms, the real world is not nearly the hellhole social media portrays it to be.
Bougie_Birdie@piefed.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 151d
My always-on doomscroll device's weather app today told me about an aviation accident that killed two people in another country
I just wanted to know if the snow was going to let up, why am I getting international news of death and dismemberment?
IcedRaktajino@startrek.website · 9 pts · 151d
I'd get a new weather app that only shows the weather. If you're on Android, try BreezyWeather (F-Droid link).
The F-Droid ("freenet") one
onlymainly uses OpenMeteo as the source (which is pretty good) but the releases on Github offer additional sources. Not sure why there's a discrepancy, but I use the Github release and Accuweather as the source. YMMV which gives the best results for your area, but I often wasn't getting severe weather alerts with OpenMeteo.Wrufieotnak@feddit.org · 11 pts · 151d
Well, there are two songs which I think answer your question:
We didn't start the Fire
And
Besuchen sie Europa, solange es noch steht
Which is a song about visiting Europe before it will be destroyed by the then assumed imminent nuclear war.
Omgpwnies@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 150d
Slightly newer but, It's the end of the world and we know it also
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 150d
Don't change color kitty?
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 150d
YES. But a big chunk of people have been sheltered from that fact.
That’s why we have people: wanting civil war, because they’ve never had to personally suffer the loss, privations, and terror of a real war. Are anti-vax, because they haven’t had plagues of smallpox, the flu, or polio kill their kids, friends, and relatives. Pro-authoritarian, because they’ve never lived under a series of shitty power grifters and a corruption-based economy where absolutely nobody does well except the richest. Anti-social programs, because they’ve never faced homelessness or a disability.
There are so many things that people have had the luxury of avoiding that they’ve forgotten how shitty the world is. Spoiled children, they are.
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club · 10 pts · 151d
Generally, things were always fucked up. However, two major changes between this generation and previous ones:
Leaders were generally portrayed as being more competent than now. Even leaders who were considered dumb at the time kept themselves to a far higher standard than now.
The media landscape is more fractured now than before. It was common for television shows to be seen by a third of the country. It made things more uniform culturally. A lot of that is gone
Tmiwi@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 150d
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 151d
I'm not that old...
But you're confusing reality for perception.
The world's been fucked up, it's just people can see it from their phones when they used to not even hear about it
Being aware of issues doesn't make them worse, just means we have a shot of fixing them.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 9 pts · 151d
The creation of the universe was a mistake. It's been downhill since the big bang.
667@lemmy.radio · 14 pts · 151d
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
—Douglas Adams
1984@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 151d
No, the 80s and 90s were fantastic. I would go back if I could. I thought it was bad that there was wars and corruption but I had the feeling that leaders tried to do the right thing. Maybe they didnt but I felt like they did. Not today.
Norin@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 151d
As a little preface here, I teach philosophy and world religions at community colleges for a living, and so I spend a good bit of time reading texts from ancient cultures.
The relevant thing here being that it’s pretty common to find writings from just about every point in human history that talk about their own time as one of terrible injustice, iniquity, etc. often in ways that sound like they could have written today.
So, I’d wager it’s always been this way, and not just in the last century.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 151d
Those ancient writings. Were the times and cultures full of justice and equity and they writers are just whiners?
Norin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 151d
Maybe it’s my anarchism showing, but I’m not sure there’s ever really been a society full of justice and equality, or at least not for long.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 151d
So I mean. They had a point then is what im kinda saying.
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 151d
Well, as an American, I can only speak for my lifetime...
Late 60s/Early 70s - Vietnam/Nixon - Pretty fucked up.
Late 70s - Iran hostage crisis - Fucked up.
80s - Reagan/Bush - Iran/Contra - Recession - Iraq War I - Fucked up.
90s - Clinton era was pretty good. Big scandal was a blowjob. People actively talking about blowjobs all the time.
2000s - Bush II, 9/11, Iraq War II, Abu Ghraib, 2008 financial crash - VERY fucked up.
Late 2000s - Obama - Not awful. He should have ended Bush's drone program, but not awful.
2017-2020 - Trump. Covid. 1,000,000 dead Americans. INCREDIBLY fucked up.
Early 2020s - Biden - Fucked up inflation. Covid weirdness.
Now? (gestures)
1984@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 151d
I guess this is accurate but people were different during these eras too. Leaders did bad things but there was a sense of ordinary people being mostly good. At least I had that feeling.
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 151d
As a kid, I noticed the price of comic books going up from $0.25 to $0.75. Of course they are $5 to $10 now. 😉
bluGill@fedia.io · 6 pts · 151d
It never was, but there were always doom and gloomers saying it was.
Jaegeras@piefed.social · 5 pts · 150d
SupahRevs@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 150d
Honestly, after your reading youre examples, it seems like things are worse today.
25 people were killed in the Salem witch trials. That is about the same number of unarmed black people killed by police every year.
And in your other example, 5 million people were killed in 154 years. In the post 9/11 Middle East wars, there were about 1 million people killed in 20 years. There were 100,000+ civilian deaths in Iraq which was the result of misleading WMD lies. So a lot of death from a "wrong" messenger in modern days too.
Curious_Canid@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 151d
It really depends on how you define it. There have always been locations and groups where things were terrible and there have been locations and groups where things were good. Often the locations were the same but the groups were different.
In the US, there was a general sense that things were gradually improving that may have gone back as far as World War II and lasted through the 70's. Not that there weren't a lot of problems, just that society seemed to be recognizing and working on them. The conservative resurgence in 1980, lead by Ronald Reagan and Newt Gringrich, pretty much ended that positive trend. Since then we've seen active efforts to divide people, to encourage prejudices, and, especially, to destroy the education system. That last is critical, because it makes propaganda and other forms of social manipulation far more effective.
The US is now living with the result of allowing those changes. There are vast disparities in education, wealth, and power across the population. Many people on the low end of those distributions have been convinced to blame other groups that are also on the low end. That has allowed those at the high end to corrupt our political and economic systems to their advantage.
The current situation is not sustainable, but it will do incalculable damage to hundreds of millions of people while it exists. And we don't know what will follow it.
There is strong evidence that humans became successful as a species because of their ability to put interests of the group before their own. Those instincts have been subverted, but they are not dead. That is what gives me hope for the future.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 150d
It's always been this way, just the internet has made global awareness easier
troed@fedia.io · 5 pts · 151d
It was worse. The difference is that now companies are making money off of scaring you with headlines so that you will click, click, click ...
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe · 5 pts · 151d
Yes
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 150d
The world has always been a shithole. The manner of shittiness has changed and also depends largely on location.
kbal@fedia.io · 3 pts · 151d
According to legend, the problems all started when the landlord found out that Adam and Eve had a pet snake, and they got evicted.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 149d
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 149d
Did you forget the huge bombs going off in British cities too? Mad Cow? Black Wednesday?
Bwaz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 151d
Yeah, thought it was fucked up, but assumed the vast majority of people still wanted it to be better for everyone. Recent US elections, though, indicate otherwise, which is extremely depressing.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
You're still right. They're just propagandized into believing that what's better for a tiny minority of rich people will make things better for everyone else.
angelmountain@lemy.nl · 1 pts · 151d
Almost everything now is better than ever before. The problem is that the news is telling you all is bad. Stop watching it. This includes your social media feeds. Just don't read it. Do something else with your time. Go outside.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail
The Middle East has definitely gotten worse.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 151d
Im a little younger than you asking but to me yes. Its not as much what people are experiencing atm as direction. Coming off the seventies it seemed that although we had a ways to go we generally were getting better with human rights, equality, quality of life. We seemed to backslide in the 80's but there is always kinda ups and downs so it just seemed part of the cycle. Backsliding a bit and we would pick ourselves back up. The nineties did well enough that it reinforced this but honestly it did not make the progess it should have. Like that is the point where the us should have finally got universal healthcare and it did not happen. Then like 911 and the aughts was big time backsliding with the patriot act and other things. I think technology made it less obvious how we wer falling. Also laws around globalization that were easy not to notice dovetailed nicely with peeling back rights. Then like the tens the progress was pretty anemic. None of the laws were repealed that regressed us in the aughts and the universal healthcare that finally materialized was a conservative concept that at least did have a lot of work to make it actually function. It was becoming obvious that "normal" had really come down. Then the teens just started getting crazy and we blipped out of it for a sec but went right back in. Again you have folks still for the most part house and eating but there are tons of adults living with parents or vice versa kind of things. The house of cards gets taller and the peanut butter keeps getting spread thinner and we know we can't scrape the jar forever.
twinnie@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 151d
I’m not in my 60s or 70s but people that age probably remember practising what to do if a nuke lands. This went on for decades.
Supervisor194@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
It was different, there was more of what at least looked like cause->effect. People were irrational, but not directly belligerent about their irrationality. Round table talk formats didn't seem so useless, there being people who were more learned than you giving useful explanations about what was happening in the world (that made sense). Watching them now seems like the blind leading the blind. The world was more coherent and the incoherent parts of it seemed largely marginalized and sidelined. This marginalization seemed fairly permanent, like you could count on society making progress in science and technology without regard to your stupid uncle's sexist bullshit or your crazy aunt's vitamin therapy and aversion to aluminum cookware. Now all of them are wrapped up in one Super Saiyan called "Secretary of Health and Human Services."
Vinny_93@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 151d
I'm not your target demographic but it's not really a stretch to say that pretty much everything that's happening today has happened before and will keep happening. Like others say it's mostly because there is more coverage (and maybe some more nuance causing more opinions). Back in the 50s the US started fighting in Korea and pretty much the entire US could see why and supported it. Then when Vietnam happened, there was a bit more coverage which also caused more dissent. Since then I think petty much every 5 years or so the US has been fighting wars in the Middle East. The fight with Iran is nothing new (look up Iran-Contra for instance).
Environmental concern has been around for well over 60 years and yes, we are a lot further along but by now the smart money is on people will never be able to steer it in a positive direction so it's pretty much damage limitation where possible.
In the end it's not really about how fucked up global events are, it's more about finding the light in when they all seem a bit less fucked up than it used to be.
Drbreen@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 151d
Thank you all for your comments. I have read them all but not able to reply to them individually. I must say though, we are living in the most comfortable time in any point in human history. Modern conveniences and access to medicine is definitely the highlight of modern times. I also recognise I have much to be thankful for in my personal life. Stable, well paying job, a wonderful wife and healthy wonderful children. I could've been born in any part of the world, at any point in human history and overall I am grateful for where I am right now.
However, after more thought, it does feel like globally something has shifted since 2020. More conflict, more division, more anger. Are we leading up to something much worse? Who knows. Social media hasn't helped either - immediate access to everyone's thoughts and opinions I don't believe is a good thing whereas before people had to specifically write to a newspaper and maybe have their one liner on an issue published, now it's all open for everyone to know. When I start feeling this way, I tend to switch off for a while and come back when I've had a breather from the world. Looks like I'm due again.
DelightfullyDivisive@discuss.online · 1 pts · 150d
In most measurable ways, it was much worse. Crime, mortality, institutionalized racism, war, etc. It looks worse now because every action and word by the people considered newsworthy is magnified and judged by thousands of opinions, many of which originate in troll farms, and many which are intended to be deliberately divisive.
Yes, the US government is infested with fascists. Yes, wealth inequality is worse than it ever was. These are real problems, and worse than they ever were before. (Though I wonder sometimes about how much damage was done by Reagan, and whether denying basic government protections to the poor was just more acceptable then.)