Of course not, the tip is just viewed as an additional surcharge and they don't want to spend that money. The social issue is very likely, if at all, just an after-the-fact rationalisation/justification.
If you're going to the US, you're supporting whatever is going on over there. It makes you worse than the many people in the US that were born there for no fault of their own, now trying to work against it.
Schadenfreude, while very natural, is bad enough by itself, actually increasing the Schaden is even worse. So I'm not sure exactly what you'd be celebrating, except your own shittyness.
And I'm not from the US, so "my" nation isn't even the one you're talking about.
It's rough seeing how smug europeans are about american fascism when every time you look at european news you see their own fascist splinter groups gaining more political traction with none of them really doing anything about it. Maybe worry about yourselves before worrying about us, right?
Unfortunately, the US regularly intervenes in foreign countries' affairs, so it's not possible and geopolitically pretty stupid to not worry about the US. You can worry about both, though.
The issue is they aren't. They just complain about the US and ignore their own country moving down that path. When they have the best ability to prevent it from getting bad early.
Yeah. It's interesting they all working together (despite being nationalistic) sending each other funds, and they all have a very positive view towards Russia.
I'm surprised there people who believe it is all organic.
About a decade ago, Steve Bannon very overtly came to Europe with money from the Koch Foundation openly to "Fund Far-Right parties".
In many places in Europe the rise of the Far-Right happened after that.
Similarly, in Britain it turned out that most of the social media manipulation in favor of Leave was done by Cambridge Analitica, a British company which was being paid to do it by wealthy Americans.
America actively funds the Far-Right in Europe, especially the anti-EU crowd since EU member nations were a lot easier to push around by America and American interests individually, than they are grouped into the EU (even if parts of the EU, such as the EU Commission, have pretty much sold themselves out to large American companies)
You are not wrong, but fucking all american shit comes here with a 10 year delay for some reason (obesity, economic crisis, far right/proto fascism, anti vax, neoliberalism, the list goes on and on and on) so maybe that's why people like to have a go at your country when it looks like you're beating up yourselves while making it a spectacle.
Your country started that. And because your double agent of a president is Putin’s pawn, guess what? Putin received leeway to muddy Europe’s water too, with an unstoppable hybrid war. Every news article, every forum, every community I used to visit is now filled with bots that, as soon as politics is mentioned, chimes in about the “rapist immigrants that are stealing your job” and how “Europe is a failed continent that’ll turn your kids trans/gay”.
It’s hilarious, isn’t it?
US and Russia shit on ME and Africa, which causes a huge wave of political and war refugees/economic immigrants to run from the horrors that YOUR country is responsible for.
And instead of us trying to think how to handle the piece of shit to the East, and how to protect our borders from illegal immigration, we have an ex-ally to the West, who is eyeing sovereign European territory.
And you have the audacity to call us smug? No, we are just familiar with history and evil men in power.
The problem is that the 340 million people there are incredibly diverse. While a large part would circlejerk about how superior they are, another large part wouldn't. It's easy and fun to lump all Americans together, and even mandated by our brains inability to process such large numbers, but doing it always unfortunately alienates the ones that do not exhibit the traits you ridicule.
It's so much better (and useful) to just ridicule the traits/behaviors themselves instead of the relatively unrelated nationality. There's nationalists and smug superiority everywhere.
I wouldn't go there because I don't have an X or twitter for them to interrogate my opinions.. and I'm far too jokey to not upset people and get myself in trouble with people in "authority".
I've gotta wait out the American decline until some time after Balkanisation and they start removing some of the guns. Honestly, it seems about as sensible as going to do tourism in the congo.
Celebrating other people's misery is the reason humans could never get along in the first place. It's tribalism, same thing they've used for thousands of years to divide people.
Don't worry, European countries have their own fascism problem, not far behind the U.S.
And this will be the first time in history that fascists in power have access to a fully-immersive (and inescapable) digital panopticon complete with AI to process more data that humans would be capable of doing unassisted, and adding concerningly high rates of hallucinations on top of it, even aside from the biases and spins that are baked into their algorithms...
Oh and military technology has come a long way since the last time fascists gained enough influence to threaten the world order...
This isn't going to be good if we can't all pull ourselves out of this death spiral before it's too late...
Or you know. Fuck tipping culture instead of paying your employees. The bar is charging $8 for 80 cents of bottom shelf booze in a mixed drink and right now they're swamped in business with people racking up hundreds in drinks and bar food. You don't think they could afford to bonus out their staff?
oh look. Someone who thinks they earned an extra $20 for walking over a couple plates, when other people did all the work preparing it.
Literally the only people against getting rid of tipping and making the owners pay a real wage are the wait staff. They don't want to pay taxes on everything they make, and they know that they'd make less money if they were just paid by the hour.
They even got greedy as hell trying to push the normal up to 20% or more. The standard tip used to be between 10% and 15% for decades. The price of food and eating out has gone up with inflation, so why would that percentage need to change?
oh shit. Are you also saying you folded napkins and had to speak to people or use a reguster? Wow. That almost sounds like the things an hourly paid employee would do!
It's a big world mate and I can't always be aware of every shitty thing going on at all times. Not only for logistical reasons, but also for mental health reasons.
No ethical consumption under capitalism. Can believe workers should be paid by the business owner and not by patron tips and believe that going to a world cup match to watch your country play your favorite sport is no worse than shopping at a big box store or paying your landlord.
It is just for sit down meals and personal service. If someone is handling your car or your luggage or delivering food to your house, or cutting your hair that's personal service.
The kiosks ask because they can blame the software and get away with it.
What you are describing is a major contributor to tip fatigue. Everything is asking for a tip, meanwhile actual tipped employees are still making $2 an hour. It's out of control.
Hold up, you're missing some nuance and it's gonna make Europeans in here believe it's true. In the US, any job can collect tips, it's literally free extra money for no extra work so that's why you see the tip option everywhere. That said, not all positions which collect tips get the service industry $2 minimum wage.
Most positions such as barista, hair stylist, etc get paid minimum wage plus they get whatever tips you give pay them. These positions typically get minimum wage because, despite there being a tip option, most people don't tip significantly (hair stylist might depending on the type, but their base fees are already very high). Think of these as your $1 tip category, it's people who you aren't socially obligated to tip, don't expect a tip, get paid at least minimum wage regardless of your tip, and contribute to tip fatigue.
The other tip group are full tip positions, such as waiter or bartender. These positions get $2 an hour unless they fail to get enough tips on average to meet the $7 minimum wage. Realistically, if they aren't getting at least $7 minimum in tips then they are going to leave or get fired long term. These positions you are socially obligated to tip and they expect a tip. Strangely enough, some of the biggest proponents for this tipping position are the people that work in this field, career waiters and bartenders, because despite the very low potential income it also has a fairly high potential income for a low skill job depending on a lot of different factors. This is your percentage tip category.
The $1 tip category won't go away, no matter how annoying it is, because it's literally free money and no one expects you to do it (and if they do feel free to laugh in their face and never give them business again). The % tip category also probably won't go away because it allows the business to shift costs to the customer and the people in the career support it.
You might wonder why people in the % tip category would support it, it's because it's a low technical skill job (hard work only), a lot of the tips are tax free, people who don't like it leave the career, and it often attracts certain types of people (perhaps neurodivergent is the right word, but I really mean the type of people who don't want a 9-5 Mon-Fri job).
Yes, but you can't just ask someone "Do you make minimum wage? I need to know so I can decide how much to tip."
I don't know how much is normal to tip at some places. At restaurants, 20% is standard, ±5% depending on quality of service.
But at a coffee shop or a hairdresser or anywhere else like that, when the prompt for a tip comes up, I'd feel guilty to put anything lower than 20% because that's how I'm programmed to feel about tipping. It would feel rude to press "no tip" or just $1 or just 5%. But also, cognitively I know 20% is too much for those roles because they already make at least minimum wage. But asking "what's the normal amount to tip" seems rude too.
So I usually end up overtipping, even when it puts a strain on my finances. And that moves the overton window and begins to ingrain the obligation into cultural expectations. And that's precisely what the vendors want to happen. They want you to feel guilty so you tip too much, so that it becomes normal to tip too much and people have the option of "no tip" gradually taken away from them.
That's why in Europe when you use those american POS machines, the staff will click "no tip" for you before even handing you the machine. One, because they don't want to guilt you into tipping, and two because they don't want tipping culture to sneak into their societies. Because if it does, not only will it become a social obligation that no one wants, but it could also potentially give employers permission down the line to start paying less, the way they do in the US.
European wait staff like being payed a living wage without relying on tips. And you can feel the difference. They're not nearly as stressed out as servers in the US, and the interactions feel more genuine because they don't need to kowtow or be obsequious.
When it comes to % tips, back in the day the base number was 15%, I personally feel like that isn't enough today. I start with 20% and then deduct for poor service (EDIT: it takes some pretty poor service for me to deduct at all, I would say 95% of the time I leave a 20% tip), I never leave zero tip, but I will leave a bad tip, and if I keep having bad service I just won't come back. I would say my floor for a % tip is 10%. If service is so bad that I wouldn't leave even that, then I have and will stand up and leave early. This is the kind of situation where I ordered a soda, 30 minutes passed, and the waiter never came back. Hey, I'm out, here is $5 for the soda and I'm probably never coming back here.
As to when I % tip, my personal rule is that it's only for seated service which I qualify as the following: Someone seats me, someone comes to the table and takes my order, someone comes to the table to refill drinks and bring my food, and someone comes to clean the table when I leave. If any of these is not happening then I probably am not going to % tip. Did I have to order from a counter, did I have to go get my food, did I have to fill my own drink, did I have to dispose of the waste myself? There are certainly exceptions to this rationale, but I would say 90% of the time it works.
Some area for nuance is fair. If I sat myself, ordered from a counter but a lady brought it out to me, and she filled up my drink, but I threw the tray contents away I might leave her a few bucks if I have cash, but won't feel like I have to. Another good rule is that if you have to pay before the service is completed then I'm not tipping 99% of the time.
hairdresser or anywhere else like that, when the prompt for a tip comes up,
Hairdressers are a bit special and depend on the type. If you're a white man going for a 15 min buzz cut and paid $20, no tip. If you are a black woman with 2 feet of hand braided hair and you are getting your hair done every 3 weeks (unbraid, cut, wash, dry, maybe color?, condition, rebraid), that hair styling is like 4+ hours of work, their fee is probably $300+ and you will probably tip them $50+ easily.
the staff will click “no tip” for you before even handing you the machine.
Hehehehe, in the US sometimes those fuckers will push the 25% before handing it to you. I get feeling bad, but it's important to set rules for what you think is fair and then follow them, even if that means telling them to take the check back and put in a different %. I'll go one better, back in college a group of friends went out and due to our party size the establishment automatically added a 15% tip. One of my friends laughed and told the waiter to take his check back and to redo the tip, the waiter was at first like, "Sorry sir, but our policy is to add 15% to all groups of 8 or more" but my friend said, "No, you were a great waiter and I want to tip you 20%, but you didn't give me any place to do that on this bill."
European wait staff like being payed a living wage without relying on tips. And you can feel the difference. They’re not nearly as stressed out as servers in the US, and the interactions feel more genuine because they don’t need to kowtow or be obsequious.
I think this is a great point and hits on part of the problem. American service staff is a career of delusion, similar to construction. On paper they see they can make X amount of money, but they never do, they don't think they need benefits because they're young and healthy, and they think they will be as fit as they are in their 20's forever but they won't. Construction and service alike are exploitative and they aren't in a healthy place, but withholding tips from the worker doesn't fix that situation and just hurts the employee.
100% agree and that's why people do give the barista a dollar or two. If your drink was $5 then 20% works out to be about a dollar, but it's different from servers who get 20% on $40. At least in the US, if you frequent somewhere, especially if you are a recognized regular, then you should tip because people will remember it.
If I was in the US, and I bought a coffee equivalent to what my local gives me, I’d happily tip regardless of culture or wage. The cafe down the road is insanely good, but there’s not a lot of bad coffee around here.
I would say that experiences vary greatly and there are plenty of discerning people who appreciate great coffee. Local coffee shops in the US are plentiful, but we perhaps get a bad reputation because of McDonalds and Starbucks. There is something to be said for just wanting a coffee or espresso right now quickly without too much regard for quality or price, that's where McDonalds and Starbucks reign. Personally, I never order from either because their coffee and espresso is bad IMO. Now, my local coffee joint (which is a local place that operates out of a shack with a drive through) makes great coffee and I always give them a dollar or two.
In the USA, it is illegal for anyone to make less than federal minimum wage. If a tipped employee does not earn tips, the employer must make up the difference. To not do so is wage theft and illegal.
It doesn't work on a per-shift basis. If they work a slow, below-minimun weekday and a busy, above-minimum weekend, they aren't bumped up on the weekday. What actually happens is their weekend is counted against their weekday. Many shifts they do in fact walk out with sub-minimum wages that do not get corrected.
It's a system that's great for the rockstars is busy urban areas pulling in hundreds of dollars a shift. For everyone else in the industry, not so much.
"But overall they're making above minimum."
While true, it's similar to a laborer working a 12 hour shift and not getting any OT because they're under 40 for the week and OT doesn't kick in until hour 41. They still worked a 12 hour shift and 4 of those hours should have been OT, but due to how the hours are counted their employer is able to avoid the payout.
My fucking girlfriend always asks me if I tip when we get counter service and there's a prompt on the pos, and I can't get thru to her that unless it's sit down, a bar, or delivery I don't tip unless there's an actual reason to do so.
I fucking hate that there's a cultural guilt in this country of wasting 15-20% extra on food to uphold a fucking post-slavery jim crow policy.
Exactly. When it comes to food service, if all you did was make it and bring it to the counter, that’s all just rolled into the price of the meal. If you’re bringing it to my house or refilling my drinks and taking empty plates away while I sit and enjoy myself, then that’s beyond the meal itself and I’ll happily tip for that service.
Really? I have seen a tip window on a card terminal maybe once or twice within the last year.
I also find our German tipping culture pretty okay.
Tips usually aren’t expected but welcome. Usually you just round up a bit. A 10% tip is still considered a good tip.
It’s nowhere near as bad as in the US
Finland and nearby countries, I remember seeing a tip question in a terminal once in my entire life. And the UI was so confusing that I probably managed to tip 2 cents or something by accident.
That's because businesses use POS machines with american software. It's all over Europe now, but usually the staff will click "no tip" before handing it to you, because they don't want tipping culture sneaking in and threatening their livable wage.
Yep, in Berlin they're fucking everywhere. There are also a lot American tourists/immigrants now who happily tip 20% or 25%, so it has slowly become more and more standard in the last 10 years. Kill me now...
somewhere around 2020 everyone and their mother starting asking for tips, even places that don't pay tip-based wages. it's just pure corporate greed over here. my guess is that it's on by default by the payment processors and most people don't turn it off.
This is a product of the myriad of unconfigured PoS systems. If you just Google shit you're supposed to tip for before going into a country, you should be good to go. It's the same thing I do when I travel. While I do agree that the tipping culture sucks, I think it's more rude as a visitor to completely ignore social norms and constructs.
Travelers who aren't tipping are just stiffing a waiter who is working their ass off during the busiest time for their establishment and probably making that person sour on whatever country they're from. I can't realistically see how this path leads to meaningful change or righteousness.
Yeah, like I said, "any of this" includes that. Watching the US becoming the Nazis is not entertainment when you know it means people will suffer, not just the people you think should suffer.
As much as I hate tipping (I also don't get paid extra money for simply doing my fucking job), it is different in third world countries like the USA (a large country in north america, close to Canada and Mexico), which lacks fundamental human rights and a social security system. There, waiters in restaurants usually need tips for earning a living wage as restaurant owners do not or barely pay them. Therefore, tipping is not only polite but also necessary to not additionally punish workers for a system they are barely responsible for. Let's hope that civilised countries start development projects in the USA in order to improve the system and living conditions of these people.
Political change is difficult as the USA is stuck in a quasi-democratic two-party system that is currently developing towards a dictatorship. But maybe through enough time and effort we can help this country and it's people to get on a better track.
A tip is meant to be "Here's an extra $10, I know you're already getting paid a living wage, but you went above and beyond and were the star show the show, you deserve it." That's not what we have in the USA, we have some broken tipped minimum wage that makes it feel like an obligation. It's broken.
In the current system it will not change unless it is forced by things like this or progressive policies. You want them to just keep it going how it is?
World cup is too short term to change it, will have to be slow policy push for minimum wages.
If you want people to strike then support them, misleading them into thinking you’re going to be paying them for their time and labor (tipping is expected in the US, which is why in many states it’s legal to pay servers barely more than $2/hour) is just a dick move. Or just be upfront with them and tell them you’re not going to be tipping and get served accordingly. Or go to a place where non-tipped workers are employed. There are a lot of options that aren’t ‘shit on someone working for $2/hour and tell them it’s for their own good’.
For instance in Atlanta, the minimum cash wage for a tipped server is $2.13 per hour. If tips combined with wages do not reach the state minimum of $7.25, the employer must make up the difference.
It's built into the price of the meal. It's more systemic than making the customer pay the wait staff. The profit margins on food are razor-thin, despite "offloading" wait staff salary and no one in the restaurant getting healthcare.
If you're not going to tip, then don't go out to eat. Going out and not tipping exclusively hurts the staff.
Functionally no, there are a handful of restaurants in places like NYC and LA that have tried it, but part of the problem is that the servers want tips as well (you're gonna have a hard time getting rid of something which the people being affected want).
I said this elsewhere, but any job can ask for tips but that doesn't mean they're making the $2 minimum wage. The cashier at McDonalds and the Barista at Starbucks are making minimum wage. In most cities those positions are making more than minimum wage because of market competition (Ziprecruiter says that the average McDonalds employee in Atlanta makes $12/hour, not that that's a living wage either).
People who are making the $2 minimum wage generally make a lot more than that, and more than the McDonalds or Starbucks employee, because of tips. Tips are generally tax free, the positions are low skill, and if you don't like this type of work or pay you'll generally leave pretty quickly so the position is self selecting.
Here's the math for two situations:
1.) You're a bartender at a lunch pub with 12 spots at your bar, your shift is 10 am - 5 pm, you open at 11 and you'll have on average 50% of the spots taken every 30 min. 7hr x 12 spots x 50% x 2 per hour = 72 customers. The average order will be between $15 - $30 with tip being $2.25 - $4.50 or $3.375 average. So 72 customers x $3.375 + $2 x 7 hours = $257/day x 5 days = $1,285 per week on average. Of that, you only pay taxes on $70 worth.
2.) You're a waiter at an Outback Steakhouse, you have 5 tables, your shift is from 3 pm - 10 pm, you're only really getting business from ~4 - 10 pm. During those hours your tables are 3/4 full and flipping every 45 minutes. 5 tables x 6 hours x 0.75 amount full x 3/2 flip rate = 33.75 customers. On average they are spending $50 - $100 each with tips of $7.50 - $15, average $11.25. So 33.75 customers x $11.25 + 7 hrs x $2/hr = $393.68/day x 5 days = $1968.40 per week on average. Again, you're only paying taxes on $70 worth.
Now, here's the catch, this is an average and assumes the location is very successful. You might instead have a Tuesday where it's raining and you made $60 because no one came in, but then Friday the football game is on and you made $500. Maybe this restaurant isn't pulling in customers so you're not getting that kind of traffic. On paper the job can look very appealing, but in practice it typically falls short of those numbers.
Mostly correct. You do have to pay taxes on tips that the government knows about, which means any credit card tips and reported cash tips (which can be lied about of course because there's no paper trail, but reporting $0 cash tips is highly suspicious).
Remember the whole "no taxes on tips" campaign that MAGA tried to use to get more working folks on their side? That's because much/most tips are taxed.
And as someone who's spent much of my career in a tipped position, all tips should be taxed. All income should be taxed. It's what keeps society working.
Now, anyone in a tipped position should be taxed less, but we shouldn't be targeting the source of the income. Take two people; a server making $60k and a teacher making $60k. Both should be taxed less than they currently are (and billionaires taxed much much much more), but saying the server should pay less than the teacher because much of their income is tips is prioritizing the wrong thing in society. Eliminating tax on tips is wrong when the republicans proposed it, and it was wrong when democrats agreed. Lower the tax burden on lower brackets, and raise it on those in the much higher brackets. Don't target the source of the income.
I absolutely agree, especially because the primary income of the extremely wealthy (unrealized gains on stocks and such) isn't getting taxed properly either.
Oh I understand, but the no tax on tips thing did go through. Through 2028 you can deduct up to $25k in tips. You still have to pay payroll taxes, but you will get them back when you do your taxes.
It's a bit of hyperbole, but it's not too far off of the truth. In the past you only paid taxes on tips you claimed, so if you got all your tips in cash you perhaps didn't claim them all (or maybe just enough to hit the minimum wage). If you got tips on credit or debit card then they were automatically counted. Last year they passed a rule that goes through 2028 in which you can deduct up to $25k of tips from your income. You still have to pay payroll taxes on those tips, but come tax time you can deduct up to $25k and get those taxes back. So if you made $60k including tips, maybe $10k of those tips were in cash, you can deduct $25k for tips and then the standard deduction is another $16k and you don't claim the $10k in cash. $60k - $25k - $16k - $10k = $9k in taxable income.
Great, This is why I’ve already dropped my tip baseline 5%.
I’m taxed on 100% of my pay, what makes waitstaff special? I’d argue that the grocery store employers are more vital and should get a discount on their taxes.
I begrudgingly tip, but usually 10-15%, like it used to be. I don't buy into the current bullshit narrative of driving up the expected percentages, especially as prices rise as it is. Some might say I'm still an asshole for NoT pAyInG tHeM eNoUgH, but so be it.
So many tipped workers fight to keep being abused in this way, and I don't reward that, even if I support these post-slavery practices through cultural guilt alone.
They generally get a portion of the tips. It varies from place to place, but when I was serving it was about 3% of total sales, regardless of tip percentage. If you did $1000 in sales, $30 of your tips went to BOH and support staff, whether you made $100 or $300.
Asking from a place of genuinely not knowing; are there a reasonable number of places where non-tipped workers are employed in this sort of sector? If so, it might be really handy to put together a list, so people can more easily make the choice to go there, rather than stiffing staff who need the tips to survive.
Generally no fast food workers are tipped, it’s restaurant/bar only. And restaurants that don’t allow tips will generally advertise it. Off the top of my head I don’t know of any chains that don’t do tipping, but I also don’t eat out much.
You're not going to change the fundamentally broken culture of the US by punishing a few service workers. We're not talking about the current system being good or whether or not it should change, we're talking about a bunch of tourists refusing to tip.
I mean it's not an individual act here, it's starting to look like collective action. A mass boycott of tipping would force a crisis where workers walk out en masse. Euros are giving Yanks the push they need to build on this, with unions, a collective organization, strike funds. This is the only path towards tipping abolition, a relic of class oppression and a mechanism by which capitalists shift wage costs onto consumers, esp disgusting when we know attractive or white servers often receive more than equally skilled counterparts, deepening racial and gender pay gaps and fosters a power imbalance that enables harassment: 74% of female servers in the U.S. have experienced sexual harassment, often tolerated because their income depends on pleasing the customer.
Yeah, actually. Waiting tables is one of the few, ubiquitous jobs you can get without higher education that has a reasonable chance to pay well.
This flight against tipping is crab mentality. You're not doing them any favors, you're just going to lower their wage to $18/hr flat, with no healthcare and still shitty part-time hours, and some corpo is gonna pocket the difference.
Workers in Europe weren't handed the rights they have, in some cases people literally died fighting for them. The only tip I have for American service workers is "unionize".
You think American workers haven't suffered and died fighting for their rights? I know this information is not exactly front and center in history books for reasons of shame and intentional obfuscation, but American worker rights history is stained in blood just as yours is.
Lmao you think we were handed this? We've been fighting for our rights to unionize for literally decades on end. Our government works with companies to literally kill us if we don't go back to work. Men women and children have died fighting for the rights we DO have.
Fuck off with this "you're only getting this because you aren't trying hard enough to unionize" bullshit. Our rights have been bled for by hundreds of thousands over the years.
Whose misleading who? I would say that in this case, it would be the people that are not up front about the expected price of a service.
If tipping is required up front, then include it in the prices (and I don't mean as an half hidden fee tacked on the announced prices like American businesses started doing).
American service workers are putting the blame on the wrong people, the only ones scamming them are their bosses.
I would say that in this case, it would be the people that are not up front about the expected price of a service.
So when an employer is misleading you the correct response is to short change the underpaid employee, who will have it come out of their inconsistent, unreliable pay? Can’t relate.
And you’re absolutely misleading the worker when you come to a place where tipping is expected and then don’t tip. They aren’t being nice to you and paying attention because they’re so enthralled by you, it’s because you’re expected to pay them. If you aren’t, say so.
If the servers don't get tips anymore, they might simply strike for a living wage. The current system just makes servers even more dependent with every single tip that replaces what should be a wage. Somethings gotta give, it's not the workers, and the bosses wont budge without pressure, so even if it's hard, it might be the only way something really changes for the better.
They aren't going to strike from this event. Wait staff don't have insurance or savings. Restaurant owners can't afford to pay living wages with benefits; the margins are razor-thin as-is.
Have you never heard of strike funds? If service workers can't even pay rent they're going to strike and walk out, breeding a crisis that will make tipping culture untenable.
Yea, the thing I don't get about the "if I don't tip the workers will unionize" crowd is that they can just not go to tipping establishments or just eat takeout. You don't have to basically steal labor from the workers. If you think "them making less money is better for the market" then just don't make them work for you and refuse to pay what is expected. Boycotting tipping establishments would help, but that doesn't get people free/less expensive stuff so they don't do that.
Even if I take them in the best faith possible, they're just exploiting the workers themselves and blaming the workers for their exploitation. In that situation they basically take the place of the bosses saying "if you want a raise go work somewhere else".
I also hate tipping culture, but it's so rude to go to another country (during a rise in fascism no less!) and act like by not following their norms you're having any effect on the culture other than making yourself look like bad.
The problem is the workers who get tips generally like it because they can potentially make a lot more than a comparable fixed wage. On a good night you can make several times over the base wage, and under-report cash tips on your taxes (or omit them entirely, but the IRS might catch that).
So a lot of workers don't want tipping to go away any more than the restaurant owners do.
But base wage for those positions is also significantly lower than minimum wage because the tips are expected to compensate for it, so the ceiling is higher but the floor is also lower. So refusing to tip at all does kind of make you out to be the asshole.
Unfortunately most people are just trying to survive and don't really have the time or the energy to worry about the bigger picture.
Personally, I just split the difference and refuse to tip anywhere it's not already factored into the wage structure. It's not gonna change the situation but at least it helps hold the line.
That doesn't make you some champion of the working man, it makes you a cheap asshole. You are taking advantage of their labor more than the restaurant owner.
Advocate for change, absolutely. Refuse to patronize restaurants that expect/require tipping. I'd even say it's fair to stop buying into the tip-inflation (15% used to be standard, then 18, now 20+), that's fair, stick to 15%.
Hell, since at most restaurants you pay after the meal, why even pay that? After all, you knew there's a cost before you had the meal but "you can't spare it." I'm serious, you wan't to make a point, leaving a note that says "pay your staff better" and no cash makes a stronger statement than simply not tipping.
Living in the UK, I easily avoid giving any such slave driver my money.
I'm simply explaining why the rest of the world isn't like the US, workers collectively fought for rights, simple as that. Either get on with changing it, or keep complaining about being stiffed (while pocketing off the books income in a lot of cases). Shrug
This discussion is about Europeans coming to the US and giving money to the restaurants themselves (the slave drivers) but not tipping the staff (the slaves). Absolutely support a decision to protest such a system by not patronizing it; but patronizing it but not tipping is just cheap. You’re not some savior of workers rights, you’re a cheap asshole. That is a harsh truth you need to come to terms with.
Non tippers get a reputation around town and then are treated with bad service, largely ignored by the staff. Big tippers get treated to complimentary meals, desserts, wine, and more.
There is also the angle of poor servers being treated with low/no tips, the long term goal of which being to get them to treat customers better or drive them out of the business.
That would also require being unfortunate enough to be in the US for a protracted length of time.
While the UK is indeed a shit hole and getting worse thanks to Trump wannabes and other associated scumbags only a hair's breadth from being out and out Nazis, it isn't quite as bad as the US. Yet.
Edit: I have spent time in the states, but it's direction in the last decade has put paid to me ever returning, for business or pleasure. Fuck that.
I live in Canada, not the US. We have tipping here as well, but we don’t pay restaurant servers $2/hr. They get the same minimum wage that everyone else gets. We still have tons of World Cup tourists refusing to tip and creating a big conflict.
I think some restaurants are moving to automatic 20% surcharges on the bill as a way of dealing with non-tippers.
Yep the the American job market is fucked, and it will be painful to change it especially when the people in charge are paid by the oligarchs.
One less painful way of moving away from tipping culture would be something like this: gradually increasing the base salary for workers, as I recall the minimum wage is below $3 for tipped staff. And then gradually decreasing the maximum allowed tip.
But the problem is: Show me a single state where the politicians would agree and then have the balls to go through with it while the oligarchs and supreme court will do everything in their power to keep the status quo.
Restaurants usually take the latter option. I’ve been to plenty of places that are down to the owner cooking and his wife serving, no hired staff at all.
Restaurants are never gonna pay more to the staff than they collect for meals sold. Most of the restaurant’s income (if they aren’t a fancy place that sells a lot of alcohol) goes toward paying for food, rent, and utilities.
Employer. Their employees will eventually quit, and it will get harder for them to hire new ones. Tipping does not help here, it lets the employers do what they’re doing now.
If you don't like tipping culture, don't screw the worker while inconveniencing the restaurant not at all. Boycott the restaurants unless they pay fair wages. Go to the grocery store. Plenty of good meals to be found there.
Expectations is the main difference. Servers are expected much more than Jake and Emelie. Very few people go to a full service restaurant and are ok receiving the same service they do at McDonald's. That's understandable, the price between both is significant but I do think if full service servers were only expected to provide the same level of service and expertise as Jake and Emelie they'd be like, "fuck yeah!" Where are as the opposite wouldn't be welcome without a raise by Jake and Emelie. I feel it's important to consider this to further the discussion otherwise we're no better than current Reddit.
What in the world are you talking about?
And what makes you think anything you said is even remotely relevant?
No... people dont go to a resturant and expect McDonalds level of service. They're also not going to pay McDonald prices nor expect to recieve McDonald food quality (or lack there of).
My expectation of atmosphere, food, and service is directly tied to the advertised price of the food.
Regardless. I'm not paying my garbagetruck driver twice. And they quite frankly performs a much more important service to me than any waiter ever could.
I pay my taxes. And they're paid from that. Just like i pay for my food, and would expect my waiter/chef/manager to get paid from that.
As of your last note. Please just stop... people make up Lemmy, people make up Reddit, and people are always a bunch of bastards. No one is better than the other.
Yeah, not paying a tip cause you think the worker deserves a living wage definitely fucks the worker over, rather than the business. So there might be righteous anger, but it's directed at the one you're trying to help.
Maybe tip workers shouldn't have been fighting for tax less tips, and should have fought for a real wage?
I know so many tipped workers who fight to be able to guilt customers into paying their bills instead of just having a real wage. And they're going to find out that people aren't going to keep paying more and more guilt money to servers. I remember when 15% was the norm, and now people are saying it's 20, and fuck that.
Unfortunately, most servers are in the class of workers whose economic activity exists entirely in the short term. Without proper organization and unity in action, short term disruptions could have fatal implications.
It will sound brutal, but they are stupid to living with this system. Imagine all costumer facing jobs to be depended by tips. Like tech support, cashiers, shop assistants, baristas, and every worker you meet as a consumer.
Tips was about extra for elegance and nice service. I know living wages are shit, and that's why it became a norm all over the world. But it is something extra, so the worker can have pleasure, not to get through life.
For servers in the US specifically it's not true that it's something extra, it's become an expected part of their compensation structure. They have a special, lower minimum wage they're allowed to be paid. (If tips don't cover the difference between that and minimum wage, they still have to be paid minimum wage.)
Sorry, on this parenthetical, for non-Americans, can you clarify?
Servers are paid less than minimum wage, but if they don’t get tips enough to cover the delta, they are paid minimum wage?
So does it go to the employer to cover your wage, are tips reported for tax, etc? Are there any repercussions if a server is consistently not tipped? Can they fire you?
It varies by state, some do require servers to be paid minimum wage and don't have this weird exception. The ones day do allow them to be paid something like $2 an hour instead of $7.25 (I forget the exact numbers). Then if they don't make enough in tips so their "effective" hourly pay for the day is minimum wage, then the employer had to cover the difference.
Tips are reported as taxable income. I'm sure many servers take cash tips and don't, but that's between them and the IRS. Assuming everyone is behaving, yes, tips are taxable income just like "normal" income. (Even income from illegal activities is considered taxable.)
Repercussions for not getting tips? Maybe. I haven't been a server. I'm sure it can happen, I'm not sure how often it does. As for can they fire you? Yeah, most likely. Every state but one has what's called "at will employment" which gives workers the "benefit" (lol) of being able to quit whenever, but also let's employers fire you for any reason (apart from a very small number of things like discrimination).
Basically, say you work one hour. Minimum wage is $7.25. The server minimum is $2. You make $3 in tips. Your employer would need to cover the additional $2.25.
A lot of this is effectively moot since minimum wage has stagnated so far behind inflation. I think a lot of places are already offering above minimum wage for their lowest paid workers, but I'm not sure if that includes servers.
As a past server, it's incredibly easy to make that threshold. But it's also based on an average per pay period. If a server has a giant party that tips $30, and nothing else in a 6 hour period, it's still 2.13 for those 6 hours. And any corporate restaurant hates paying servers. Servers would be fired if they consistently needed pay (not often) or worked overtime (decently often, because then corporations would need to pay $9something an hour)
It’s not extra here. It’s expected unless they do a really bad job. I don’t care how the rest of the world is. This is how it works here. Don’t come to our country and shit on our culture and expect us to thank you. What the fuck is wrong with you people?
If you don't like the tip economy, then don't participate in it by avoiding restaurants that underpay their employees. But don't take it out on the employee, they're already the victim, and the restaurant owner doesn't care about your protest.
If anything, tip your server in cash, then run out on the bill.
The thing is, lots of tipped workers also fight being paid a living wage because they make way more money off tips than they otherwise would at a job with similar qualifications. If a server is only working 6 tables in an hour and averages only 5 dollars a table in tips, that's $30 an hour. There's no way that if tips were eliminated that restaurants would bump salaries that much.
They could still collect tips, nobody is stopping that. They would just have to be paid a normal minimum wage as well. There is no reason that restaurant owners should be given the only exception in paying a minimum wage. Why should they be the only industry that forces the customer to directly pay their wages?
Maybe we should do that with cops, or politicians. They get $2 an hour, and then get tips FROM THE CITIZENS, when they do their jobs correctly, and the Citizens are moved to show their appreciation. I suspect we'd see cops and politicians behave much better.
People who are over worked and underpaid were convinced their employer couldn't be trusted to pay them a proper wage isn't the successful argument you think it is
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
I don't see how is Europeans stiffing you on a tip is immoral
You guys are seriously confused if you think you can guilt trip people into believing they are in the wrong. I had a long discussion on this exact topic before and really no arguments were presented to prove otherwise so come on let's go for round two
I say: it is wrong to expect people from a completely opposite mindset, culture and background to know that slavery should be supported with their contributions. I think it's fucked up you guys can only whine about a few missed dollars when there is so much going on that is affecting our lives over here that you idiots had a direct influence on. Let talk oil prices and ram prices, you think I would blaim you personally for that too? I think it's time to do that even if I know it's morally wrong. Because, in the words of Louis Rossman: I will hold you to the standards you hold me.
So tell me again how my argument is not that good. Fuck you.
a few missed dollars here can be the difference between rent and homelessness. and i assure you things are getting increasingly brutal for anyone in this country who needs a home, food, medical care.
a random server at the chain restaurant (patronized by people privileged enough to travel internationally to see sports games!) is NOT responsible for the strait of hormuz or the AI bubble!
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
"change your laws" you say to the below minimum wage worker as you don't pay for the service you received. I don't remember voting to rely on the generosity of assholes to pay my rent. Server's in most restaurants barely scrape by, it's incredibly rare for them to "make bank". And before you say "work somewhere else" take a look at the current job market and see who's actually hiring.
Correct. Not every server is a bartender in a local place that gets a tip-out on top of their tips from reasonable people. Some are servers in a chain restaurants that serve the least grateful, understanding, and intelligent people around. I mean, I had a lady complain that her medium steak had pink in it. It's not the server's fault if the customer is a moron.
you think you're the only country with an underprivileged class that had to fight for themselves? (or at least want to.... americans don't even get to the "wanting to" stage)
Get a proper job? Leave? Demand fair compensation by including gratuity in the sales price instead of allowing modern day slavery? Complacency with a system like that is damning
In at least the west coast states, tipped workers do not make a lower wage.
I'm not aware of any successful restaurants in the U.S. who have higher prices eliminating tipping and pay their staff a salary. Every instance I've seen of this fails.
Servers make more money under a tipping culture over a set wage. They'd rather have tipping.
I'm not defending tipping as the way it should be, only that this is the way it is. Any one coming over to the US and not tipping to "make a statement" isn't hurting the restaurants, they're hurting the workers. And while we rightly expect US tourists to respect the customs of countries to which they travel, we should also expect the same of tourists to the US, at least those customs that affect the workers.
These tourists will "make a statement" for these couple of weeks, giving business/money to the restaurants but none to the staff, then leave and nothing will have changed except the bank account balances of the staff. If they wanted to make a statement, they'd seek out restaurants which already more closely aligned with their position.
I never before thought about FIFA bringing attention to social issues but think about it, the book the spotlight on Qatar, and now the United States, they should probably go to North Korea next.
I'm surprised europeans even go to USA... with ICE arresting anyone who looks at them funny...
Also - I think people should do what they want in this specific matter. USA is supposedly "land of the free" so as long as there is no official government-mandated tip amount, tipping 0$ is as good as any tip amount. Tipping is as much of a cultural thing as the tax level, that is - none.
Oh, OK. So, are you boycotting restaurants that pay the tipped minimum wage? Trying to get ballot measures to end the tipped minimum wage approved? Lobbying against the National Restaurant Association for their support of the tipped minimum wage? Or are you just denying exploited workers income and pretending your taking a stand?
Yes. And if Europeans are going to come here and willfully act like asses in our restaurants, I don't want to hear them piss and moan about obnoxious American tourists anymore.
Then don't go to the restaurant. Y'all are the biggest fucking hipocrits. Give this guy business but cheap out on the person waiting on you. Pretend it's on principle but it's really that you are enormously cheap.
I'm sorry but Europeans are easily the cheapest people on the planet. Stop pretending it's a protest. You just will take every opportunity to save a penny.
As long as you've made it clear that it's up to the tourists to pick which ones they want to continue.
I don't support tipping culture either, but a) I am not going to punish one waitress in particular, and b) I am not so entitled to think I can just go to a place and choose some customary things to ignore.
Not tipping underpaid workers when that's the established system, like it or not, just takes the exploitation done by the employer, and puts it on the customer. Now the CUSTOMER is the one exploiting the worker, because they know they are getting their food cheaper, simply because they are stiffing the server. The server's tip is supplementing their dinner costs.
At least be honest about it. You aren't paying the tip not because you object - it's just the actual cost of the food, it just contains this weird cultural invisible fee - you just see it as a handy excuse to stiff a hard-working server out of their money. All these rich Europeans come here with plenty of money, they flood the restaurants and pubs, and spend a fortune, which makes the restaurant owners rich, and makes the workers work even harder, for even less.
And then the rich Europeans can go home, and brag about how they taught those evil Americans a lesson about their immoral tipping culture. Meanwhile, the restaurant owners are counting their World Cup profits, while the servers are wondering how they're going to pay their rent after working twice as hard for half as much.
So instead of refusing to tip they should order take out and then make a stink about the tip economy in the US. My family rarely eats out and a large portion of that decision is because of the tip economy. When we do though, I make sure to tip the servers well unless they're horrid because they won't get paid otherwise.
What sucks about stories like this is not only are the servers not getting paid, they're actually losing money because of the alcohol sales.
Why? Because in most restaurants that sell alcohol the server has to tip out the bartender a percentage of their drink sales. That $0 tip actually just took $5 away from the server.
Yes but you're forgetting that the rich Douchebags going to the world cup are deserving of being allowed to do that because checks notes "the employees they're hurting work in the USA and therefore aren't people because their government sucks and ours is so much better just don't look behind the curtain or in the closet or under the rugs"
I was talking about a sub-minimum wage earner tipping out another sub-minimum wage earner, but you're absolutely right about the other staff. In fact it's even worse with a sub-minimum wage earner paying out of pocket to the wage earner.
This is hilarious. If you thought the American capitalists were greedy, pig headed assholes who smugly step on anyone they perceive to be under them while acting like they are helping them, here come the European football fans.
This is a race to the bottom of capitalist assholes trying to get one back on America by further exploiting their proles.
Seriously please yes, to any Europeans visiting the USA, do this. You have my permission as a US citizen to never tip if it's not listed on the menu as required.
I think it used to be that even Europeans traveling in the u.s wouldn't like tipping culture but recognized the plight of the worker and would tip something.
The Americans have been so offensive, weak, embarrassing and completely subjugated to their own corporations that people from abroad no longer empathize with the worker. They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for their sports game. There's no culture to experience or anything to see.
Americans have made it clear that they refuse to stand against their brand of capitalism and the rest of us want nothing to do with it as mini versions of their bullshit get attempted elsewhere.
There's no reason to respect or empathize with the population further. I don't go there for anything but I wouldn't tip anyone either or spit on them if they were on fire. We've run out of empathy and there has been no benefit to being kind to Americans. It's far better to just not have them in your orbit. They won't help themselves so why should we open our wallets.
Only a European could find a way to express their "progessiveism" by stiffing underpaid workers and somehow acting smug and morally superior for it, as if their shit smells like roses.
Oh, so they are happy to give their money to the business owners that are not paying their workers enough to live on. And the think that tweeting about their moral highground is good.
great, so these wealthy tourists can return home and the workers are still stuck working for tips. Well, at least these workers don't have to suffer the extra work for much longer. eventually the world cup will end and business will return to normal. How generous of the european elite to give their money to the business owners.
Self-righteous euro-trash deprive workers of pay they know the workers deserve, in order to stick it to management, who is unaffected by this action. Great work, guys, way to attack the victims of a bad system by making whipping boys of them, I'm sure that their bosses rolling in money from all the extra business are VERY upset. What a bunch of assholes. I'm sure these same pieces of animated fecal matter get upset when tourists to their countries ignore all the local customs and mistreat the workers.
If you can’t tip, don’t go to the restaurant or bar. Those workers depend on their tips. And the restaurant or bar isn’t just gonna make up the difference for the server just because you decided not to tip.
510 Comments
MummifiedClient5000@feddit.dk · 276 pts · 39d
Be honest; No one that would travel from Europe to the World Cup cares one bit about social issues.
Azzu@leminal.space · 130 pts · 39d
Of course not, the tip is just viewed as an additional surcharge and they don't want to spend that money. The social issue is very likely, if at all, just an after-the-fact rationalisation/justification.
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -16 pts · 39d
Azzu@leminal.space · 94 pts · 39d
If you're going to the US, you're supporting whatever is going on over there. It makes you worse than the many people in the US that were born there for no fault of their own, now trying to work against it.
Schadenfreude, while very natural, is bad enough by itself, actually increasing the Schaden is even worse. So I'm not sure exactly what you'd be celebrating, except your own shittyness.
And I'm not from the US, so "my" nation isn't even the one you're talking about.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 64 pts · 39d
It's rough seeing how smug europeans are about american fascism when every time you look at european news you see their own fascist splinter groups gaining more political traction with none of them really doing anything about it. Maybe worry about yourselves before worrying about us, right?
Azzu@leminal.space · 31 pts · 38d
Unfortunately, the US regularly intervenes in foreign countries' affairs, so it's not possible and geopolitically pretty stupid to not worry about the US. You can worry about both, though.
halcyoncmdr@piefed.social · -5 pts · 38d
The issue is they aren't. They just complain about the US and ignore their own country moving down that path. When they have the best ability to prevent it from getting bad early.
bufalo1973@piefed.social · 8 pts · 38d
You know that almost all far right parties in Europe get money from the MAGAts, right?
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 7 pts · 38d
And MAGAts got their money from far right Europeans. What's your point?
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 1 pts · 38d
Uhhuh sure buddy. Lets pretend its spooky secretive europeans funding the american fascism parties.
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 38d
Yeah. It's interesting they all working together (despite being nationalistic) sending each other funds, and they all have a very positive view towards Russia.
I'm surprised there people who believe it is all organic.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 38d
About a decade ago, Steve Bannon very overtly came to Europe with money from the Koch Foundation openly to "Fund Far-Right parties".
In many places in Europe the rise of the Far-Right happened after that.
Similarly, in Britain it turned out that most of the social media manipulation in favor of Leave was done by Cambridge Analitica, a British company which was being paid to do it by wealthy Americans.
America actively funds the Far-Right in Europe, especially the anti-EU crowd since EU member nations were a lot easier to push around by America and American interests individually, than they are grouped into the EU (even if parts of the EU, such as the EU Commission, have pretty much sold themselves out to large American companies)
architect@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 38d
Funded by not Americans.
No being a fucking billionaire South African who can go wherever he wants isn’t an American. There’s multiple of those people, even!
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -5 pts · 38d
Yeah they love pointing at European fascism but being remarkably blind at drawing the connections themselves.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 37d
You are not wrong, but fucking all american shit comes here with a 10 year delay for some reason (obesity, economic crisis, far right/proto fascism, anti vax, neoliberalism, the list goes on and on and on) so maybe that's why people like to have a go at your country when it looks like you're beating up yourselves while making it a spectacle.
I hope you'll finally figure it out, good luck!
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 36d
So you should see it coming and stop it.
camembear@sopuli.xyz · -7 pts · 38d
Your country started that. And because your double agent of a president is Putin’s pawn, guess what? Putin received leeway to muddy Europe’s water too, with an unstoppable hybrid war. Every news article, every forum, every community I used to visit is now filled with bots that, as soon as politics is mentioned, chimes in about the “rapist immigrants that are stealing your job” and how “Europe is a failed continent that’ll turn your kids trans/gay”.
It’s hilarious, isn’t it? US and Russia shit on ME and Africa, which causes a huge wave of political and war refugees/economic immigrants to run from the horrors that YOUR country is responsible for.
And instead of us trying to think how to handle the piece of shit to the East, and how to protect our borders from illegal immigration, we have an ex-ally to the West, who is eyeing sovereign European territory.
And you have the audacity to call us smug? No, we are just familiar with history and evil men in power.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 38d
Europe invented fascism I don't care :)
camembear@sopuli.xyz · -8 pts · 38d
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 36d
And so you take it out on waiters?
camembear@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 36d
I don’t.
tomiant@piefed.social · 1 pts · 37d
This guy is right on the money btw. You may not like it, but it be like it do.
camembear@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 37d
Truth is often uncomfortable
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -3 pts · 38d
Stop with this nonsense Trump is a continuation of a long tradition of American imperialism not a "Russian puppet".
camembear@sopuli.xyz · -1 pts · 38d
EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 39d
Yeah but then they don't get to circlejerk about how superior they are.
Azzu@leminal.space · 12 pts · 39d
The problem is that the 340 million people there are incredibly diverse. While a large part would circlejerk about how superior they are, another large part wouldn't. It's easy and fun to lump all Americans together, and even mandated by our brains inability to process such large numbers, but doing it always unfortunately alienates the ones that do not exhibit the traits you ridicule.
It's so much better (and useful) to just ridicule the traits/behaviors themselves instead of the relatively unrelated nationality. There's nationalists and smug superiority everywhere.
tomiant@piefed.social · 2 pts · 37d
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 36d
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 0 pts · 38d
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 36d
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -9 pts · 39d
I wouldn't go there because I don't have an X or twitter for them to interrogate my opinions.. and I'm far too jokey to not upset people and get myself in trouble with people in "authority".
I've gotta wait out the American decline until some time after Balkanisation and they start removing some of the guns. Honestly, it seems about as sensible as going to do tourism in the congo.
Join in with us, pass the popcorn then.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 36d
You won't see less guns following a civil war.
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 38d
Celebrating other people's misery is the reason humans could never get along in the first place. It's tribalism, same thing they've used for thousands of years to divide people.
Don't worry, European countries have their own fascism problem, not far behind the U.S.
Then we can all be miserable together.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 38d
And this will be the first time in history that fascists in power have access to a fully-immersive (and inescapable) digital panopticon complete with AI to process more data that humans would be capable of doing unassisted, and adding concerningly high rates of hallucinations on top of it, even aside from the biases and spins that are baked into their algorithms...
Oh and military technology has come a long way since the last time fascists gained enough influence to threaten the world order...
This isn't going to be good if we can't all pull ourselves out of this death spiral before it's too late...
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 39d
Why'd you assume he's from the US?
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 38d
Send in the Goths, and hurry!
architect@thelemmy.club · -1 pts · 38d
Jesus Christ you clap for your own demise.
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -1 pts · 38d
The boomerang is coming home and the schadenfreude is too enticing.
redsand@infosec.pub · -2 pts · 38d
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 0 pts · 38d
redsand@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 37d
How you invested bud?
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -1 pts · 37d
redsand@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 36d
So you don't even have money to invest. Good luck 🥲
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 38d
Also, all the bars and restaurants started tacking a 20% "tip" straight into the bill instead of making it voluntary.
WhoIsTheDrizzle@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 38d
I wouldn't blame them after these reports. Need to hold rude Europeans accountable.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · -6 pts · 38d
Or you know. Fuck tipping culture instead of paying your employees. The bar is charging $8 for 80 cents of bottom shelf booze in a mixed drink and right now they're swamped in business with people racking up hundreds in drinks and bar food. You don't think they could afford to bonus out their staff?
Fuck you.
WhoIsTheDrizzle@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
I'm not saying they couldn't, I'm saying they won't. You're happy to patronize those locations and give the owners $8/drink but not pay the staff.
Fuck you, friend.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 36d
You dont have to come here shit bag. Nice job proving magats right about how awful forgeners are.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · -1 pts · 36d
oh look. Someone who thinks they earned an extra $20 for walking over a couple plates, when other people did all the work preparing it.
Literally the only people against getting rid of tipping and making the owners pay a real wage are the wait staff. They don't want to pay taxes on everything they make, and they know that they'd make less money if they were just paid by the hour.
They even got greedy as hell trying to push the normal up to 20% or more. The standard tip used to be between 10% and 15% for decades. The price of food and eating out has gone up with inflation, so why would that percentage need to change?
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 36d
Tell me you never worked in a restaurant without saying you never worked in a restaurant
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · -1 pts · 35d
oh shit. Are you also saying you folded napkins and had to speak to people or use a reguster? Wow. That almost sounds like the things an hourly paid employee would do!
leagman1@feddit.org · 4 pts · 39d
Not a single one?
MummifiedClient5000@feddit.dk · 1 pts · 38d
Can't support corrupt organizations and regimes and also claim to be socially aware. Mutual exclusivity.
iamthetot@piefed.ca · 2 pts · 38d
It's a big world mate and I can't always be aware of every shitty thing going on at all times. Not only for logistical reasons, but also for mental health reasons.
MummifiedClient5000@feddit.dk · 2 pts · 38d
I didn't state that you must know everything, but you can't claim to be aware of social issues if you're willfully ignorant.
hobovision@mander.xyz · 0 pts · 36d
No ethical consumption under capitalism. Can believe workers should be paid by the business owner and not by patron tips and believe that going to a world cup match to watch your country play your favorite sport is no worse than shopping at a big box store or paying your landlord.
Cheems@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
I don't think the definitive no one is true. While a lot of them couldn't care less. I'm sure there are some that do.
dudeface@lemmy.world · 114 pts · 39d
I went to the US in 2024 and it was outrageous, every card terminal asked for it
I was under the impression it was just for sit down meals and not stuff like Starbucks or non food related things
Serinus@lemmy.world · 67 pts · 39d
It is just for sit down meals and personal service. If someone is handling your car or your luggage or delivering food to your house, or cutting your hair that's personal service.
The kiosks ask because they can blame the software and get away with it.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 39d
What you are describing is a major contributor to tip fatigue. Everything is asking for a tip, meanwhile actual tipped employees are still making $2 an hour. It's out of control.
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 38d
Hold up, you're missing some nuance and it's gonna make Europeans in here believe it's true. In the US, any job can collect tips, it's literally free extra money for no extra work so that's why you see the tip option everywhere. That said, not all positions which collect tips get the service industry $2 minimum wage.
Most positions such as barista, hair stylist, etc get paid minimum wage plus they get whatever tips you give pay them. These positions typically get minimum wage because, despite there being a tip option, most people don't tip significantly (hair stylist might depending on the type, but their base fees are already very high). Think of these as your $1 tip category, it's people who you aren't socially obligated to tip, don't expect a tip, get paid at least minimum wage regardless of your tip, and contribute to tip fatigue.
The other tip group are full tip positions, such as waiter or bartender. These positions get $2 an hour unless they fail to get enough tips on average to meet the $7 minimum wage. Realistically, if they aren't getting at least $7 minimum in tips then they are going to leave or get fired long term. These positions you are socially obligated to tip and they expect a tip. Strangely enough, some of the biggest proponents for this tipping position are the people that work in this field, career waiters and bartenders, because despite the very low potential income it also has a fairly high potential income for a low skill job depending on a lot of different factors. This is your percentage tip category.
The $1 tip category won't go away, no matter how annoying it is, because it's literally free money and no one expects you to do it (and if they do feel free to laugh in their face and never give them business again). The % tip category also probably won't go away because it allows the business to shift costs to the customer and the people in the career support it.
You might wonder why people in the % tip category would support it, it's because it's a low technical skill job (hard work only), a lot of the tips are tax free, people who don't like it leave the career, and it often attracts certain types of people (perhaps neurodivergent is the right word, but I really mean the type of people who don't want a 9-5 Mon-Fri job).
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 10 pts · 38d
Yes, but you can't just ask someone "Do you make minimum wage? I need to know so I can decide how much to tip."
I don't know how much is normal to tip at some places. At restaurants, 20% is standard, ±5% depending on quality of service.
But at a coffee shop or a hairdresser or anywhere else like that, when the prompt for a tip comes up, I'd feel guilty to put anything lower than 20% because that's how I'm programmed to feel about tipping. It would feel rude to press "no tip" or just $1 or just 5%. But also, cognitively I know 20% is too much for those roles because they already make at least minimum wage. But asking "what's the normal amount to tip" seems rude too.
So I usually end up overtipping, even when it puts a strain on my finances. And that moves the overton window and begins to ingrain the obligation into cultural expectations. And that's precisely what the vendors want to happen. They want you to feel guilty so you tip too much, so that it becomes normal to tip too much and people have the option of "no tip" gradually taken away from them.
That's why in Europe when you use those american POS machines, the staff will click "no tip" for you before even handing you the machine. One, because they don't want to guilt you into tipping, and two because they don't want tipping culture to sneak into their societies. Because if it does, not only will it become a social obligation that no one wants, but it could also potentially give employers permission down the line to start paying less, the way they do in the US.
European wait staff like being payed a living wage without relying on tips. And you can feel the difference. They're not nearly as stressed out as servers in the US, and the interactions feel more genuine because they don't need to kowtow or be obsequious.
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 38d
When it comes to % tips, back in the day the base number was 15%, I personally feel like that isn't enough today. I start with 20% and then deduct for poor service (EDIT: it takes some pretty poor service for me to deduct at all, I would say 95% of the time I leave a 20% tip), I never leave zero tip, but I will leave a bad tip, and if I keep having bad service I just won't come back. I would say my floor for a % tip is 10%. If service is so bad that I wouldn't leave even that, then I have and will stand up and leave early. This is the kind of situation where I ordered a soda, 30 minutes passed, and the waiter never came back. Hey, I'm out, here is $5 for the soda and I'm probably never coming back here.
As to when I % tip, my personal rule is that it's only for seated service which I qualify as the following: Someone seats me, someone comes to the table and takes my order, someone comes to the table to refill drinks and bring my food, and someone comes to clean the table when I leave. If any of these is not happening then I probably am not going to % tip. Did I have to order from a counter, did I have to go get my food, did I have to fill my own drink, did I have to dispose of the waste myself? There are certainly exceptions to this rationale, but I would say 90% of the time it works.
Some area for nuance is fair. If I sat myself, ordered from a counter but a lady brought it out to me, and she filled up my drink, but I threw the tray contents away I might leave her a few bucks if I have cash, but won't feel like I have to. Another good rule is that if you have to pay before the service is completed then I'm not tipping 99% of the time.
Hairdressers are a bit special and depend on the type. If you're a white man going for a 15 min buzz cut and paid $20, no tip. If you are a black woman with 2 feet of hand braided hair and you are getting your hair done every 3 weeks (unbraid, cut, wash, dry, maybe color?, condition, rebraid), that hair styling is like 4+ hours of work, their fee is probably $300+ and you will probably tip them $50+ easily.
Hehehehe, in the US sometimes those fuckers will push the 25% before handing it to you. I get feeling bad, but it's important to set rules for what you think is fair and then follow them, even if that means telling them to take the check back and put in a different %. I'll go one better, back in college a group of friends went out and due to our party size the establishment automatically added a 15% tip. One of my friends laughed and told the waiter to take his check back and to redo the tip, the waiter was at first like, "Sorry sir, but our policy is to add 15% to all groups of 8 or more" but my friend said, "No, you were a great waiter and I want to tip you 20%, but you didn't give me any place to do that on this bill."
I think this is a great point and hits on part of the problem. American service staff is a career of delusion, similar to construction. On paper they see they can make X amount of money, but they never do, they don't think they need benefits because they're young and healthy, and they think they will be as fit as they are in their 20's forever but they won't. Construction and service alike are exploitative and they aren't in a healthy place, but withholding tips from the worker doesn't fix that situation and just hurts the employee.
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 38d
Wow. I’m in Australia and the person who gets most of my tips is a barista, anywhere
I generally empty my change in the tip jar if they have one and the service is good. I believe in tipping good service
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 38d
100% agree and that's why people do give the barista a dollar or two. If your drink was $5 then 20% works out to be about a dollar, but it's different from servers who get 20% on $40. At least in the US, if you frequent somewhere, especially if you are a recognized regular, then you should tip because people will remember it.
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 38d
If I was in the US, and I bought a coffee equivalent to what my local gives me, I’d happily tip regardless of culture or wage. The cafe down the road is insanely good, but there’s not a lot of bad coffee around here.
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 38d
I would say that experiences vary greatly and there are plenty of discerning people who appreciate great coffee. Local coffee shops in the US are plentiful, but we perhaps get a bad reputation because of McDonalds and Starbucks. There is something to be said for just wanting a coffee or espresso right now quickly without too much regard for quality or price, that's where McDonalds and Starbucks reign. Personally, I never order from either because their coffee and espresso is bad IMO. Now, my local coffee joint (which is a local place that operates out of a shack with a drive through) makes great coffee and I always give them a dollar or two.
tomiant@piefed.social · 0 pts · 37d
But in the end it comes down to: FUCK YOU PAY YOUR FUCKING STAFF
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 37d
Staff are paid though? I think I'm having trouble with understanding what your specific complaint is? Are you from the US?
iamthetot@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 38d
In the USA, it is illegal for anyone to make less than federal minimum wage. If a tipped employee does not earn tips, the employer must make up the difference. To not do so is wage theft and illegal.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 38d
It doesn't work on a per-shift basis. If they work a slow, below-minimun weekday and a busy, above-minimum weekend, they aren't bumped up on the weekday. What actually happens is their weekend is counted against their weekday. Many shifts they do in fact walk out with sub-minimum wages that do not get corrected.
It's a system that's great for the rockstars is busy urban areas pulling in hundreds of dollars a shift. For everyone else in the industry, not so much.
"But overall they're making above minimum."
While true, it's similar to a laborer working a 12 hour shift and not getting any OT because they're under 40 for the week and OT doesn't kick in until hour 41. They still worked a 12 hour shift and 4 of those hours should have been OT, but due to how the hours are counted their employer is able to avoid the payout.
tomiant@piefed.social · 2 pts · 37d
In conclusion, mono means one, and rail means the capital is fucking over the working class.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 38d
My fucking girlfriend always asks me if I tip when we get counter service and there's a prompt on the pos, and I can't get thru to her that unless it's sit down, a bar, or delivery I don't tip unless there's an actual reason to do so.
I fucking hate that there's a cultural guilt in this country of wasting 15-20% extra on food to uphold a fucking post-slavery jim crow policy.
guitarfosec@infosec.pub · 8 pts · 38d
Exactly. When it comes to food service, if all you did was make it and bring it to the counter, that’s all just rolled into the price of the meal. If you’re bringing it to my house or refilling my drinks and taking empty plates away while I sit and enjoy myself, then that’s beyond the meal itself and I’ll happily tip for that service.
LillyPip@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 39d
hOrni@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 39d
Didn't they have self checkouts that asked for tips at some point?
Maeve@kbin.earth · 3 pts · 38d
🤯
tja@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 39d
Not sure where you live but this is now also the case in Germany
dudeface@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 39d
UK, a few chains tried it here but I imagine it was enough to drive people away so you don’t see it much anymore
oats@piefed.zip · 14 pts · 39d
Fortunately, I have never encountered a tip asking card terminal in northern Germany. When I tip, I do it cash anyways. Tips don't go to the boss...
accideath@feddit.org · 14 pts · 39d
Really? I have seen a tip window on a card terminal maybe once or twice within the last year.
I also find our German tipping culture pretty okay. Tips usually aren’t expected but welcome. Usually you just round up a bit. A 10% tip is still considered a good tip.
It’s nowhere near as bad as in the US
Jorn@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 38d
Same. I'm in southwest Germany and I can't remember the last time I saw a tip screen at a card terminal.
homik@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 38d
Finland and nearby countries, I remember seeing a tip question in a terminal once in my entire life. And the UI was so confusing that I probably managed to tip 2 cents or something by accident.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 38d
That's because businesses use POS machines with american software. It's all over Europe now, but usually the staff will click "no tip" before handing it to you, because they don't want tipping culture sneaking in and threatening their livable wage.
Uebercomplicated@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 38d
Yep, in Berlin they're fucking everywhere. There are also a lot American tourists/immigrants now who happily tip 20% or 25%, so it has slowly become more and more standard in the last 10 years. Kill me now...
runner_g@piefed.blahaj.zone · 13 pts · 38d
somewhere around 2020 everyone and their mother starting asking for tips, even places that don't pay tip-based wages. it's just pure corporate greed over here. my guess is that it's on by default by the payment processors and most people don't turn it off.
WhoIsTheDrizzle@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 38d
This is a product of the myriad of unconfigured PoS systems. If you just Google shit you're supposed to tip for before going into a country, you should be good to go. It's the same thing I do when I travel. While I do agree that the tipping culture sucks, I think it's more rude as a visitor to completely ignore social norms and constructs.
Travelers who aren't tipping are just stiffing a waiter who is working their ass off during the busiest time for their establishment and probably making that person sour on whatever country they're from. I can't realistically see how this path leads to meaningful change or righteousness.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 8 pts · 38d
It is, you can just put 0 for those things. I think they market those devices doing that as an opportunity for an upcharge.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 87 pts · 39d
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 13 pts · 39d
Leviathan@fedinsfw.app · 1 pts · 37d
Honestly, there's nothing funny about any of this.
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -1 pts · 37d
There was nothing funny about joking about glassing the middle east or invading europe, but here we are.
Leviathan@fedinsfw.app · 2 pts · 37d
Yeah, like I said, "any of this" includes that. Watching the US becoming the Nazis is not entertainment when you know it means people will suffer, not just the people you think should suffer.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 38d
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 1 pts · 38d
Local sportsball leagues? Sure.
National televised sportsball? Just a vehicle for gambling and societal division.
Sportsball is just a war surrogate anyway.
Zacryon@feddit.org · 65 pts · 38d
As much as I hate tipping (I also don't get paid extra money for simply doing my fucking job), it is different in third world countries like the USA (a large country in north america, close to Canada and Mexico), which lacks fundamental human rights and a social security system. There, waiters in restaurants usually need tips for earning a living wage as restaurant owners do not or barely pay them. Therefore, tipping is not only polite but also necessary to not additionally punish workers for a system they are barely responsible for. Let's hope that civilised countries start development projects in the USA in order to improve the system and living conditions of these people.
Political change is difficult as the USA is stuck in a quasi-democratic two-party system that is currently developing towards a dictatorship. But maybe through enough time and effort we can help this country and it's people to get on a better track.
jaykrown@lemmy.world · 63 pts · 38d
A tip is meant to be "Here's an extra $10, I know you're already getting paid a living wage, but you went above and beyond and were the star show the show, you deserve it." That's not what we have in the USA, we have some broken tipped minimum wage that makes it feel like an obligation. It's broken.
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 49 pts · 38d
Before you say this is great, remember that those people willingly traveled to the US for a fascist event.
Any way the US could keep them?
some_designer_dude@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
Tell someone in uniform they have drugs. The president will shoot their plane down.
Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works · 46 pts · 39d
That'll show those service workers for working in the US.
Don't get me wrong I fucking hate tipping culture so much and am eternally grateful that I don't live in the US but who are you really punishing here?
normanwall@lemmy.world · 59 pts · 39d
In the current system it will not change unless it is forced by things like this or progressive policies. You want them to just keep it going how it is?
World cup is too short term to change it, will have to be slow policy push for minimum wages.
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 26 pts · 39d
If you want people to strike then support them, misleading them into thinking you’re going to be paying them for their time and labor (tipping is expected in the US, which is why in many states it’s legal to pay servers barely more than $2/hour) is just a dick move. Or just be upfront with them and tell them you’re not going to be tipping and get served accordingly. Or go to a place where non-tipped workers are employed. There are a lot of options that aren’t ‘shit on someone working for $2/hour and tell them it’s for their own good’.
Zwiebel@feddit.org · 10 pts · 39d
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 9 pts · 39d
And is $7.25 a livable wage in Atlanta?
grue@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 39d
Not even slightly.
But that doesn't mean it should be the customer's job to make up for the employer's abuse.
WhoIsTheDrizzle@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 38d
It's built into the price of the meal. It's more systemic than making the customer pay the wait staff. The profit margins on food are razor-thin, despite "offloading" wait staff salary and no one in the restaurant getting healthcare. If you're not going to tip, then don't go out to eat. Going out and not tipping exclusively hurts the staff.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 38d
Staying in hurts them more when their place of business closes down due to lack of customers.
Zwiebel@feddit.org · 2 pts · 38d
How tf am I supposed to know if their minimum wage is implemented properly
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
Functionally no, there are a handful of restaurants in places like NYC and LA that have tried it, but part of the problem is that the servers want tips as well (you're gonna have a hard time getting rid of something which the people being affected want).
I said this elsewhere, but any job can ask for tips but that doesn't mean they're making the $2 minimum wage. The cashier at McDonalds and the Barista at Starbucks are making minimum wage. In most cities those positions are making more than minimum wage because of market competition (Ziprecruiter says that the average McDonalds employee in Atlanta makes $12/hour, not that that's a living wage either).
People who are making the $2 minimum wage generally make a lot more than that, and more than the McDonalds or Starbucks employee, because of tips. Tips are generally tax free, the positions are low skill, and if you don't like this type of work or pay you'll generally leave pretty quickly so the position is self selecting.
Here's the math for two situations: 1.) You're a bartender at a lunch pub with 12 spots at your bar, your shift is 10 am - 5 pm, you open at 11 and you'll have on average 50% of the spots taken every 30 min. 7hr x 12 spots x 50% x 2 per hour = 72 customers. The average order will be between $15 - $30 with tip being $2.25 - $4.50 or $3.375 average. So 72 customers x $3.375 + $2 x 7 hours = $257/day x 5 days = $1,285 per week on average. Of that, you only pay taxes on $70 worth.
2.) You're a waiter at an Outback Steakhouse, you have 5 tables, your shift is from 3 pm - 10 pm, you're only really getting business from ~4 - 10 pm. During those hours your tables are 3/4 full and flipping every 45 minutes. 5 tables x 6 hours x 0.75 amount full x 3/2 flip rate = 33.75 customers. On average they are spending $50 - $100 each with tips of $7.50 - $15, average $11.25. So 33.75 customers x $11.25 + 7 hrs x $2/hr = $393.68/day x 5 days = $1968.40 per week on average. Again, you're only paying taxes on $70 worth.
Now, here's the catch, this is an average and assumes the location is very successful. You might instead have a Tuesday where it's raining and you made $60 because no one came in, but then Friday the football game is on and you made $500. Maybe this restaurant isn't pulling in customers so you're not getting that kind of traffic. On paper the job can look very appealing, but in practice it typically falls short of those numbers.
fireweed@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
Mostly correct. You do have to pay taxes on tips that the government knows about, which means any credit card tips and reported cash tips (which can be lied about of course because there's no paper trail, but reporting $0 cash tips is highly suspicious).
Remember the whole "no taxes on tips" campaign that MAGA tried to use to get more working folks on their side? That's because much/most tips are taxed.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 38d
And as someone who's spent much of my career in a tipped position, all tips should be taxed. All income should be taxed. It's what keeps society working.
Now, anyone in a tipped position should be taxed less, but we shouldn't be targeting the source of the income. Take two people; a server making $60k and a teacher making $60k. Both should be taxed less than they currently are (and billionaires taxed much much much more), but saying the server should pay less than the teacher because much of their income is tips is prioritizing the wrong thing in society. Eliminating tax on tips is wrong when the republicans proposed it, and it was wrong when democrats agreed. Lower the tax burden on lower brackets, and raise it on those in the much higher brackets. Don't target the source of the income.
fireweed@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
I absolutely agree, especially because the primary income of the extremely wealthy (unrealized gains on stocks and such) isn't getting taxed properly either.
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
Oh I understand, but the no tax on tips thing did go through. Through 2028 you can deduct up to $25k in tips. You still have to pay payroll taxes, but you will get them back when you do your taxes.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 38d
Why are you only paying taxes on $70 worth?
Knightfox@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
It's a bit of hyperbole, but it's not too far off of the truth. In the past you only paid taxes on tips you claimed, so if you got all your tips in cash you perhaps didn't claim them all (or maybe just enough to hit the minimum wage). If you got tips on credit or debit card then they were automatically counted. Last year they passed a rule that goes through 2028 in which you can deduct up to $25k of tips from your income. You still have to pay payroll taxes on those tips, but come tax time you can deduct up to $25k and get those taxes back. So if you made $60k including tips, maybe $10k of those tips were in cash, you can deduct $25k for tips and then the standard deduction is another $16k and you don't claim the $10k in cash. $60k - $25k - $16k - $10k = $9k in taxable income.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 36d
Great, This is why I’ve already dropped my tip baseline 5%.
I’m taxed on 100% of my pay, what makes waitstaff special? I’d argue that the grocery store employers are more vital and should get a discount on their taxes.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
I begrudgingly tip, but usually 10-15%, like it used to be. I don't buy into the current bullshit narrative of driving up the expected percentages, especially as prices rise as it is. Some might say I'm still an asshole for NoT pAyInG tHeM eNoUgH, but so be it.
So many tipped workers fight to keep being abused in this way, and I don't reward that, even if I support these post-slavery practices through cultural guilt alone.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 38d
As soon as the “no tax on tips” passed my baseline tip dropped 5%.
What about the cooks? Hostess? Other back of house staff?
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 38d
They generally get a portion of the tips. It varies from place to place, but when I was serving it was about 3% of total sales, regardless of tip percentage. If you did $1000 in sales, $30 of your tips went to BOH and support staff, whether you made $100 or $300.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 36d
Thanks for the info! Cheers!
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
Aren't back of house staff generally making minimum wage, not server wage? That's what I had the one place I worked for a bit.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 36d
That’s my point.
notabot@piefed.social · 3 pts · 39d
Asking from a place of genuinely not knowing; are there a reasonable number of places where non-tipped workers are employed in this sort of sector? If so, it might be really handy to put together a list, so people can more easily make the choice to go there, rather than stiffing staff who need the tips to survive.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 38d
It’s going to vary wildly as to who is paired expecting to be tipped and who isn’t.
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 38d
Generally no fast food workers are tipped, it’s restaurant/bar only. And restaurants that don’t allow tips will generally advertise it. Off the top of my head I don’t know of any chains that don’t do tipping, but I also don’t eat out much.
Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 39d
You're not going to change the fundamentally broken culture of the US by punishing a few service workers. We're not talking about the current system being good or whether or not it should change, we're talking about a bunch of tourists refusing to tip.
Abedtime@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
I mean it's not an individual act here, it's starting to look like collective action. A mass boycott of tipping would force a crisis where workers walk out en masse. Euros are giving Yanks the push they need to build on this, with unions, a collective organization, strike funds. This is the only path towards tipping abolition, a relic of class oppression and a mechanism by which capitalists shift wage costs onto consumers, esp disgusting when we know attractive or white servers often receive more than equally skilled counterparts, deepening racial and gender pay gaps and fosters a power imbalance that enables harassment: 74% of female servers in the U.S. have experienced sexual harassment, often tolerated because their income depends on pleasing the customer.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 38d
"things like this" don't contribute to changing it all though it doesn't matter when the owner still gets theirs thats all they care about.
Abedtime@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 38d
Only collective action can contribute to changing this, this is a start. Up to Yanks to carry on which will create a crisis where workers strike.
Serinus@lemmy.world · -14 pts · 39d
Yeah, actually. Waiting tables is one of the few, ubiquitous jobs you can get without higher education that has a reasonable chance to pay well.
This flight against tipping is crab mentality. You're not doing them any favors, you're just going to lower their wage to $18/hr flat, with no healthcare and still shitty part-time hours, and some corpo is gonna pocket the difference.
Maeve@kbin.earth · 4 pts · 38d
Servers in USA don't get 18.00 flat, usually.
Serinus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
No, they don't. But they usually do better than that now, with a free exceptions.
For the record the $2.13 min wage is bullshit either way. When the min wage is under $10 we don't need a special exemption for servers.
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · 31 pts · 39d
Workers in Europe weren't handed the rights they have, in some cases people literally died fighting for them. The only tip I have for American service workers is "unionize".
fireweed@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
You think American workers haven't suffered and died fighting for their rights? I know this information is not exactly front and center in history books for reasons of shame and intentional obfuscation, but American worker rights history is stained in blood just as yours is.
EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 39d
Lmao you think we were handed this? We've been fighting for our rights to unionize for literally decades on end. Our government works with companies to literally kill us if we don't go back to work. Men women and children have died fighting for the rights we DO have.
Fuck off with this "you're only getting this because you aren't trying hard enough to unionize" bullshit. Our rights have been bled for by hundreds of thousands over the years.
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · 8 pts · 39d
Exactly, so honour the people that paid for your rights with their blood, and fight your exploiter instead of picking fights with other workers.
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 38d
And that’s why it’s moral for me to mislead someone who is paid $2/hour into serving me for money I’m not going to give them 😌
Sure is telling that nobody who thinks this will tell their server upfront they’re not tipping, lmao
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · -1 pts · 38d
Whose misleading who? I would say that in this case, it would be the people that are not up front about the expected price of a service.
If tipping is required up front, then include it in the prices (and I don't mean as an half hidden fee tacked on the announced prices like American businesses started doing).
American service workers are putting the blame on the wrong people, the only ones scamming them are their bosses.
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 38d
So when an employer is misleading you the correct response is to short change the underpaid employee, who will have it come out of their inconsistent, unreliable pay? Can’t relate.
And you’re absolutely misleading the worker when you come to a place where tipping is expected and then don’t tip. They aren’t being nice to you and paying attention because they’re so enthralled by you, it’s because you’re expected to pay them. If you aren’t, say so.
Maeve@kbin.earth · 1 pts · 38d
10000 Men Named George
BigTwerp@feddit.uk · -2 pts · 39d
Don't make excuses, try harder.
Poem_for_your_sprog@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 39d
Don't go to the US
Trail@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
For many reasons.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 13 pts · 39d
If the servers don't get tips anymore, they might simply strike for a living wage. The current system just makes servers even more dependent with every single tip that replaces what should be a wage. Somethings gotta give, it's not the workers, and the bosses wont budge without pressure, so even if it's hard, it might be the only way something really changes for the better.
WhoIsTheDrizzle@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 38d
They aren't going to strike from this event. Wait staff don't have insurance or savings. Restaurant owners can't afford to pay living wages with benefits; the margins are razor-thin as-is.
Abedtime@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
Have you never heard of strike funds? If service workers can't even pay rent they're going to strike and walk out, breeding a crisis that will make tipping culture untenable.
WhoIsTheDrizzle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
Europeans coming to America and not tipping isn't going to breed a crisis, it's going to breed animosity towards Europeans from the service workers.
MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com · 10 pts · 38d
Yea, the thing I don't get about the "if I don't tip the workers will unionize" crowd is that they can just not go to tipping establishments or just eat takeout. You don't have to basically steal labor from the workers. If you think "them making less money is better for the market" then just don't make them work for you and refuse to pay what is expected. Boycotting tipping establishments would help, but that doesn't get people free/less expensive stuff so they don't do that.
Even if I take them in the best faith possible, they're just exploiting the workers themselves and blaming the workers for their exploitation. In that situation they basically take the place of the bosses saying "if you want a raise go work somewhere else".
I also hate tipping culture, but it's so rude to go to another country (during a rise in fascism no less!) and act like by not following their norms you're having any effect on the culture other than making yourself look like bad.
Technus@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 39d
The problem is the workers who get tips generally like it because they can potentially make a lot more than a comparable fixed wage. On a good night you can make several times over the base wage, and under-report cash tips on your taxes (or omit them entirely, but the IRS might catch that).
So a lot of workers don't want tipping to go away any more than the restaurant owners do.
Fluke@feddit.uk · 19 pts · 39d
Then they also have to deal with people who see through the shenanigans and refuse to tip. Fuck em.
Technus@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 39d
But base wage for those positions is also significantly lower than minimum wage because the tips are expected to compensate for it, so the ceiling is higher but the floor is also lower. So refusing to tip at all does kind of make you out to be the asshole.
Unfortunately most people are just trying to survive and don't really have the time or the energy to worry about the bigger picture.
Personally, I just split the difference and refuse to tip anywhere it's not already factored into the wage structure. It's not gonna change the situation but at least it helps hold the line.
Fluke@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 39d
Unionise and change the situation, or lose. I'm not paying money I can't spare because people refuse to help themselves. I repeat, fuck em.
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 38d
So be upfront and tell them you won’t be tipping, and get the service you’re paying for.
lobut@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 38d
Shouldn't servers tell the customers how much service they should expect based on the amount they plan to give in that case then?
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 38d
That doesn't make you some champion of the working man, it makes you a cheap asshole. You are taking advantage of their labor more than the restaurant owner.
Advocate for change, absolutely. Refuse to patronize restaurants that expect/require tipping. I'd even say it's fair to stop buying into the tip-inflation (15% used to be standard, then 18, now 20+), that's fair, stick to 15%.
Hell, since at most restaurants you pay after the meal, why even pay that? After all, you knew there's a cost before you had the meal but "you can't spare it." I'm serious, you wan't to make a point, leaving a note that says "pay your staff better" and no cash makes a stronger statement than simply not tipping.
Fluke@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 38d
Living in the UK, I easily avoid giving any such slave driver my money.
I'm simply explaining why the rest of the world isn't like the US, workers collectively fought for rights, simple as that. Either get on with changing it, or keep complaining about being stiffed (while pocketing off the books income in a lot of cases). Shrug
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 38d
This discussion is about Europeans coming to the US and giving money to the restaurants themselves (the slave drivers) but not tipping the staff (the slaves). Absolutely support a decision to protest such a system by not patronizing it; but patronizing it but not tipping is just cheap. You’re not some savior of workers rights, you’re a cheap asshole. That is a harsh truth you need to come to terms with.
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 38d
Non tippers get a reputation around town and then are treated with bad service, largely ignored by the staff. Big tippers get treated to complimentary meals, desserts, wine, and more.
There is also the angle of poor servers being treated with low/no tips, the long term goal of which being to get them to treat customers better or drive them out of the business.
Fluke@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 38d
That would also require being unfortunate enough to be in the US for a protracted length of time.
While the UK is indeed a shit hole and getting worse thanks to Trump wannabes and other associated scumbags only a hair's breadth from being out and out Nazis, it isn't quite as bad as the US. Yet.
Edit: I have spent time in the states, but it's direction in the last decade has put paid to me ever returning, for business or pleasure. Fuck that.
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
I live in Canada, not the US. We have tipping here as well, but we don’t pay restaurant servers $2/hr. They get the same minimum wage that everyone else gets. We still have tons of World Cup tourists refusing to tip and creating a big conflict.
I think some restaurants are moving to automatic 20% surcharges on the bill as a way of dealing with non-tippers.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 9 pts · 39d
Those workers are the equivalent of scabs, even if they don't realize it and don't have bad intentions.
BananaOnionJuice@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 39d
Let's say all customers just stop tipping, then the workers will be forced to find another job if the restaurants don't start paying a living wage?
kayohtie@pawb.social · 10 pts · 39d
Because they're definitely in a job they need tips to survive in due to the availability of other jobs that don't.
BananaOnionJuice@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 39d
Yep the the American job market is fucked, and it will be painful to change it especially when the people in charge are paid by the oligarchs.
One less painful way of moving away from tipping culture would be something like this: gradually increasing the base salary for workers, as I recall the minimum wage is below $3 for tipped staff. And then gradually decreasing the maximum allowed tip.
But the problem is: Show me a single state where the politicians would agree and then have the balls to go through with it while the oligarchs and supreme court will do everything in their power to keep the status quo.
grue@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 39d
The restaurant will be forced to start paying a living wage or it won't have any waitstaff left.
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
Restaurants usually take the latter option. I’ve been to plenty of places that are down to the owner cooking and his wife serving, no hired staff at all.
Restaurants are never gonna pay more to the staff than they collect for meals sold. Most of the restaurant’s income (if they aren’t a fancy place that sells a lot of alcohol) goes toward paying for food, rent, and utilities.
hOrni@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 39d
I'm being punished by being forced to tip.
angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 39d
Seriously. This is literally the kind of thing y'all call us "entitled" for.
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 2 pts · 39d
Nima@leminal.space · 1 pts · 38d
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -1 pts · 38d
angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com · 0 pts · 38d
It's because you think you're entitled to ignore norms you don't like when you're in a foreign country.
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -1 pts · 38d
StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 37d
I hope whatever is bothering you gets better
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 0 pts · 37d
Yes, I too hope you get better.
StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 36d
There there
spitfire@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 37d
Employer. Their employees will eventually quit, and it will get harder for them to hire new ones. Tipping does not help here, it lets the employers do what they’re doing now.
Olhonestjim@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 38d
If you don't like tipping culture, don't screw the worker while inconveniencing the restaurant not at all. Boycott the restaurants unless they pay fair wages. Go to the grocery store. Plenty of good meals to be found there.
socsa@piefed.social · 33 pts · 39d
Unfortunately righteous causes don't pay the bills.
Atomic@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 38d
Aint no one cares about rightenouness when it comes to Jake and Emelie behind the counter at McDonalds, so what makes servers special?
Because i highly doubt they're being tipped
Acrimonious@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 38d
Expectations is the main difference. Servers are expected much more than Jake and Emelie. Very few people go to a full service restaurant and are ok receiving the same service they do at McDonald's. That's understandable, the price between both is significant but I do think if full service servers were only expected to provide the same level of service and expertise as Jake and Emelie they'd be like, "fuck yeah!" Where are as the opposite wouldn't be welcome without a raise by Jake and Emelie. I feel it's important to consider this to further the discussion otherwise we're no better than current Reddit.
Atomic@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 38d
What in the world are you talking about? And what makes you think anything you said is even remotely relevant?
No... people dont go to a resturant and expect McDonalds level of service. They're also not going to pay McDonald prices nor expect to recieve McDonald food quality (or lack there of).
My expectation of atmosphere, food, and service is directly tied to the advertised price of the food.
Regardless. I'm not paying my garbagetruck driver twice. And they quite frankly performs a much more important service to me than any waiter ever could.
I pay my taxes. And they're paid from that. Just like i pay for my food, and would expect my waiter/chef/manager to get paid from that.
As of your last note. Please just stop... people make up Lemmy, people make up Reddit, and people are always a bunch of bastards. No one is better than the other.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 38d
In the United States, servers are paid less than McDonalds employees.
Europeans should educate themselves more if they want to get involved in our broken, shitty systems.
Atomic@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 38d
The Resturants are required to pay a minimum wage. UNLESS, the tips they recieve brings them above minimum.
So no. They're not paid less. At worst. They both make minimum wage. Americans should educate themselves on their own shitty system
architect@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 38d
Technically correct (over a pay period though) but this is how you get fired as a server.
You’re a pos, though.
Atomic@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 38d
Says the one not even tipping his minimum wage fastfood workers, why do you hate them?
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
Even when the righteous cause is a living wage? 🤔
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 38d
Yeah, not paying a tip cause you think the worker deserves a living wage definitely fucks the worker over, rather than the business. So there might be righteous anger, but it's directed at the one you're trying to help.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 38d
Maybe tip workers shouldn't have been fighting for tax less tips, and should have fought for a real wage?
I know so many tipped workers who fight to be able to guilt customers into paying their bills instead of just having a real wage. And they're going to find out that people aren't going to keep paying more and more guilt money to servers. I remember when 15% was the norm, and now people are saying it's 20, and fuck that.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 38d
Only in the short term
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
Unfortunately, most servers are in the class of workers whose economic activity exists entirely in the short term. Without proper organization and unity in action, short term disruptions could have fatal implications.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 38d
They should organize
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 38d
Nah, it's better to guilt customers into paying your bills, for some reason.
Knightfox@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 38d
Nice "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" impression. What's next, the homeless should just stop being homeless?
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 38d
You're right! Organization is impossible, so workers should keep being exploited.
nuko147@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 38d
It will sound brutal, but they are stupid to living with this system. Imagine all costumer facing jobs to be depended by tips. Like tech support, cashiers, shop assistants, baristas, and every worker you meet as a consumer.
Tips was about extra for elegance and nice service. I know living wages are shit, and that's why it became a norm all over the world. But it is something extra, so the worker can have pleasure, not to get through life.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 8 pts · 38d
For servers in the US specifically it's not true that it's something extra, it's become an expected part of their compensation structure. They have a special, lower minimum wage they're allowed to be paid. (If tips don't cover the difference between that and minimum wage, they still have to be paid minimum wage.)
ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
Sorry, on this parenthetical, for non-Americans, can you clarify?
Servers are paid less than minimum wage, but if they don’t get tips enough to cover the delta, they are paid minimum wage?
So does it go to the employer to cover your wage, are tips reported for tax, etc? Are there any repercussions if a server is consistently not tipped? Can they fire you?
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 3 pts · 38d
It varies by state, some do require servers to be paid minimum wage and don't have this weird exception. The ones day do allow them to be paid something like $2 an hour instead of $7.25 (I forget the exact numbers). Then if they don't make enough in tips so their "effective" hourly pay for the day is minimum wage, then the employer had to cover the difference.
Tips are reported as taxable income. I'm sure many servers take cash tips and don't, but that's between them and the IRS. Assuming everyone is behaving, yes, tips are taxable income just like "normal" income. (Even income from illegal activities is considered taxable.)
Repercussions for not getting tips? Maybe. I haven't been a server. I'm sure it can happen, I'm not sure how often it does. As for can they fire you? Yeah, most likely. Every state but one has what's called "at will employment" which gives workers the "benefit" (lol) of being able to quit whenever, but also let's employers fire you for any reason (apart from a very small number of things like discrimination).
Basically, say you work one hour. Minimum wage is $7.25. The server minimum is $2. You make $3 in tips. Your employer would need to cover the additional $2.25.
A lot of this is effectively moot since minimum wage has stagnated so far behind inflation. I think a lot of places are already offering above minimum wage for their lowest paid workers, but I'm not sure if that includes servers.
uberfreeza@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 38d
As a past server, it's incredibly easy to make that threshold. But it's also based on an average per pay period. If a server has a giant party that tips $30, and nothing else in a 6 hour period, it's still 2.13 for those 6 hours. And any corporate restaurant hates paying servers. Servers would be fired if they consistently needed pay (not often) or worked overtime (decently often, because then corporations would need to pay $9something an hour)
architect@thelemmy.club · -2 pts · 38d
It’s not extra here. It’s expected unless they do a really bad job. I don’t care how the rest of the world is. This is how it works here. Don’t come to our country and shit on our culture and expect us to thank you. What the fuck is wrong with you people?
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 38d
But it doesn't. This simply takes money from the servers.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
Subsidizing business owners isn't good for the workers
ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 38d
So you're boycotting the business or you're just not tipping the server?
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 38d
Boycott
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 38d
All not tipping does in this scenario is make sure the worker gets less take home and the owner still gets their share.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 30 pts · 38d
If you don't like the tip economy, then don't participate in it by avoiding restaurants that underpay their employees. But don't take it out on the employee, they're already the victim, and the restaurant owner doesn't care about your protest.
If anything, tip your server in cash, then run out on the bill.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 38d
The thing is, lots of tipped workers also fight being paid a living wage because they make way more money off tips than they otherwise would at a job with similar qualifications. If a server is only working 6 tables in an hour and averages only 5 dollars a table in tips, that's $30 an hour. There's no way that if tips were eliminated that restaurants would bump salaries that much.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 37d
They could still collect tips, nobody is stopping that. They would just have to be paid a normal minimum wage as well. There is no reason that restaurant owners should be given the only exception in paying a minimum wage. Why should they be the only industry that forces the customer to directly pay their wages?
Maybe we should do that with cops, or politicians. They get $2 an hour, and then get tips FROM THE CITIZENS, when they do their jobs correctly, and the Citizens are moved to show their appreciation. I suspect we'd see cops and politicians behave much better.
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 38d
The law says: nope.
Change your laws. Stop whining. Servers voted to keep the tip system because they make bank. Don't complain.
sudo@lemmy.today · 14 pts · 38d
People who are over worked and underpaid were convinced their employer couldn't be trusted to pay them a proper wage isn't the successful argument you think it is
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 38d
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
https://nypost.com/2026/06/20/us-news/world-cup-tourists-arent-leaving-tips-and-nyc-restaurants-are-fighting-back/
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · -4 pts · 38d
? What
I don't see how is Europeans stiffing you on a tip is immoral
You guys are seriously confused if you think you can guilt trip people into believing they are in the wrong. I had a long discussion on this exact topic before and really no arguments were presented to prove otherwise so come on let's go for round two
I say: it is wrong to expect people from a completely opposite mindset, culture and background to know that slavery should be supported with their contributions. I think it's fucked up you guys can only whine about a few missed dollars when there is so much going on that is affecting our lives over here that you idiots had a direct influence on. Let talk oil prices and ram prices, you think I would blaim you personally for that too? I think it's time to do that even if I know it's morally wrong. Because, in the words of Louis Rossman: I will hold you to the standards you hold me.
So tell me again how my argument is not that good. Fuck you.
braxy29@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
a few missed dollars here can be the difference between rent and homelessness. and i assure you things are getting increasingly brutal for anyone in this country who needs a home, food, medical care.
a random server at the chain restaurant (patronized by people privileged enough to travel internationally to see sports games!) is NOT responsible for the strait of hormuz or the AI bubble!
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 38d
Then how is one missed tip responsible for homelessness and not your own voting choices
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 38d
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
https://nypost.com/2026/06/20/us-news/world-cup-tourists-arent-leaving-tips-and-nyc-restaurants-are-fighting-back/
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
architect@thelemmy.club · 3 pts · 38d
Traveling to a fascist occupied country stiffing low wage workers while telling them to get a better job. You can’t be serious.
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 38d
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
https://nypost.com/2026/06/20/us-news/world-cup-tourists-arent-leaving-tips-and-nyc-restaurants-are-fighting-back/
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 38d
Yes I am. Go to the Capitol en masse instead of meekly accepting your fates you COWARDS
Glytch@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 38d
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about your own?
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · -6 pts · 38d
Glytch@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 38d
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · -1 pts · 37d
Ugly European
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 37d
Nazi lover
Glytch@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 38d
"change your laws" you say to the below minimum wage worker as you don't pay for the service you received. I don't remember voting to rely on the generosity of assholes to pay my rent. Server's in most restaurants barely scrape by, it's incredibly rare for them to "make bank". And before you say "work somewhere else" take a look at the current job market and see who's actually hiring.
uberfreeza@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
Correct. Not every server is a bartender in a local place that gets a tip-out on top of their tips from reasonable people. Some are servers in a chain restaurants that serve the least grateful, understanding, and intelligent people around. I mean, I had a lady complain that her medium steak had pink in it. It's not the server's fault if the customer is a moron.
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 38d
you think you're the only country with an underprivileged class that had to fight for themselves? (or at least want to.... americans don't even get to the "wanting to" stage)
TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 38d
Get a proper job? Leave? Demand fair compensation by including gratuity in the sales price instead of allowing modern day slavery? Complacency with a system like that is damning
winkledinkle@sh.itjust.works · -3 pts · 38d
The only correct take. Everything else is virtue signalling.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 30 pts · 38d
There's lots to unpack here.
I'm not defending tipping as the way it should be, only that this is the way it is. Any one coming over to the US and not tipping to "make a statement" isn't hurting the restaurants, they're hurting the workers. And while we rightly expect US tourists to respect the customs of countries to which they travel, we should also expect the same of tourists to the US, at least those customs that affect the workers.
These tourists will "make a statement" for these couple of weeks, giving business/money to the restaurants but none to the staff, then leave and nothing will have changed except the bank account balances of the staff. If they wanted to make a statement, they'd seek out restaurants which already more closely aligned with their position.
echodot@feddit.uk · 23 pts · 39d
I never before thought about FIFA bringing attention to social issues but think about it, the book the spotlight on Qatar, and now the United States, they should probably go to North Korea next.
grue@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 39d
They're just gonna go to wherever is corrupt enough to give them the biggest kickback.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 38d
They are already going to Saudi Arabia in 2034.
tomiant@piefed.social · 0 pts · 37d
The book the spotlight? What?
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca · 19 pts · 38d
Don't hurt fellow workers unless you're a capitalist.
nanometer1625@thelemmy.club · 16 pts · 37d
Fun fact: These states require tippable workers to be paid the full minimum wage:
Source: Department of Labor - Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees
zout@fedia.io · 15 pts · 39d
Tbh, this is a distraction. News channels pointing to those (few probably) pesky foreigners refusing to tip, and everyone falls for the rage bait.
HrabiaVulpes@europe.pub · 15 pts · 38d
I'm surprised europeans even go to USA... with ICE arresting anyone who looks at them funny...
Also - I think people should do what they want in this specific matter. USA is supposedly "land of the free" so as long as there is no official government-mandated tip amount, tipping 0$ is as good as any tip amount. Tipping is as much of a cultural thing as the tax level, that is - none.
theacharnian@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 38d
I appreciate america-dunking as much as everyone but are we really going to pretend that there is no exploitation in the service industry in Europe?
EDIT: PS, if you want to actually do something beyond smugly complaining, put your money where your mouth is:
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 37d
America has entered the smug European fucking over the locals phase of being a third world country
OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 38d
I'm teaching you a lesson by giving you business, then finger wagging at you.
pjwestin@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 38d
Cool, I'll remember that next time I hear Europeans say that Americans tourists are rude and disrespect others countries cultural norms.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 38d
Exploiting workers is not a "cultural norm" I want to continue.
pjwestin@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 38d
Oh, OK. So, are you boycotting restaurants that pay the tipped minimum wage? Trying to get ballot measures to end the tipped minimum wage approved? Lobbying against the National Restaurant Association for their support of the tipped minimum wage? Or are you just denying exploited workers income and pretending your taking a stand?
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 38d
Yes, all those
pjwestin@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 38d
Then this isn't directed at you, and it's weird tp jump in to defend tourists who are denying exploited workers income.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
Why? We go to Europe and act like asses all the time
pjwestin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 38d
Yes. And if Europeans are going to come here and willfully act like asses in our restaurants, I don't want to hear them piss and moan about obnoxious American tourists anymore.
chilicheeselies@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 38d
Then don't go to the restaurant. Y'all are the biggest fucking hipocrits. Give this guy business but cheap out on the person waiting on you. Pretend it's on principle but it's really that you are enormously cheap.
I'm sorry but Europeans are easily the cheapest people on the planet. Stop pretending it's a protest. You just will take every opportunity to save a penny.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 38d
I don't go to restaurants unless I'm prepared to pay tip.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 38d
As long as you've made it clear that it's up to the tourists to pick which ones they want to continue.
I don't support tipping culture either, but a) I am not going to punish one waitress in particular, and b) I am not so entitled to think I can just go to a place and choose some customary things to ignore.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 38d
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 38d
👏👏👏
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 38d
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 38d
Dadifer@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 38d
One of my super powers is not caring what other people think.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 38d
Whoa we got bit by the same reddit user.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 38d
Not tipping underpaid workers when that's the established system, like it or not, just takes the exploitation done by the employer, and puts it on the customer. Now the CUSTOMER is the one exploiting the worker, because they know they are getting their food cheaper, simply because they are stiffing the server. The server's tip is supplementing their dinner costs.
At least be honest about it. You aren't paying the tip not because you object - it's just the actual cost of the food, it just contains this weird cultural invisible fee - you just see it as a handy excuse to stiff a hard-working server out of their money. All these rich Europeans come here with plenty of money, they flood the restaurants and pubs, and spend a fortune, which makes the restaurant owners rich, and makes the workers work even harder, for even less.
And then the rich Europeans can go home, and brag about how they taught those evil Americans a lesson about their immoral tipping culture. Meanwhile, the restaurant owners are counting their World Cup profits, while the servers are wondering how they're going to pay their rent after working twice as hard for half as much.
Sure taught those Americans a lesson, huh?
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 38d
Almost encourages someone to rise up.
braxy29@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 38d
yes, i'm sure being a shitty customer for a couple weeks will totally change the trajectory of the american economic/ political system.
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 38d
Ah, but if we were ALL shitty customers
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 38d
and they call themselves a first world country....
Stefan_S_from_H@piefed.zip · 10 pts · 38d
You would need to pay only the tips for this to work.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 38d
Pay the tip in cash, and run out on the bill.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 38d
I wonder which of these the euros have been more successful at?
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 37d
Will never happen. All this will do is fuck service workers over.
psycho_driver@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 38d
So instead of refusing to tip they should order take out and then make a stink about the tip economy in the US. My family rarely eats out and a large portion of that decision is because of the tip economy. When we do though, I make sure to tip the servers well unless they're horrid because they won't get paid otherwise.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 38d
You usually gotta tip for takeout too. At least where I live.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 39d
What sucks about stories like this is not only are the servers not getting paid, they're actually losing money because of the alcohol sales.
Why? Because in most restaurants that sell alcohol the server has to tip out the bartender a percentage of their drink sales. That $0 tip actually just took $5 away from the server.
TwoTiredMice@feddit.dk · 11 pts · 39d
Everyone: just pay your employees a fair salary
Management: what if instead...
EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 39d
Yes but you're forgetting that the rich Douchebags going to the world cup are deserving of being allowed to do that because checks notes "the employees they're hurting work in the USA and therefore aren't people because their government sucks and ours is so much better just don't look behind the curtain or in the closet or under the rugs"
nullspace@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 39d
Ah, you're right. Disregard what I said. The servers should be grateful they have the privilege of losing money due to FIFA's patrons.
Maeve@kbin.earth · 1 pts · 38d
And without it, dishwashers, bussers, host staff who barely afford minimum living expenses wouldn't be able to do that.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 38d
I was talking about a sub-minimum wage earner tipping out another sub-minimum wage earner, but you're absolutely right about the other staff. In fact it's even worse with a sub-minimum wage earner paying out of pocket to the wage earner.
Maeve@kbin.earth · 4 pts · 38d
The whole system is rotten.
robocall@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 37d
Do waiters in Europe get paid a living wage and live comfortably? Serious question
Mister_Hangman@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 37d
Wow keep it up
BuccaneerScientist@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 38d
This is obviously a picture of a Euro Cup fan...
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 39d
FIFA the largest slave owner of sports, its no wonder Middle east country have bought sports organizations.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 36d
Man europe hates Americans as much as they hate Romani people
AWistfulNihilist@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 37d
This is hilarious. If you thought the American capitalists were greedy, pig headed assholes who smugly step on anyone they perceive to be under them while acting like they are helping them, here come the European football fans.
This is a race to the bottom of capitalist assholes trying to get one back on America by further exploiting their proles.
What a gross thing to be proud of!
WereCat@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 36d
When I went to Japan I didn't tip because it was rude.
If I'll go to USA I won't tip unless I want to because expecting tips is rude.
OS2Warp@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 38d
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyxgjykx7lo
jaykrown@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 38d
Seriously please yes, to any Europeans visiting the USA, do this. You have my permission as a US citizen to never tip if it's not listed on the menu as required.
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 1 pts · 38d
the irony is beautiful in this thread <3
UninvestedCuriosity@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 38d
I think it used to be that even Europeans traveling in the u.s wouldn't like tipping culture but recognized the plight of the worker and would tip something.
The Americans have been so offensive, weak, embarrassing and completely subjugated to their own corporations that people from abroad no longer empathize with the worker. They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for their sports game. There's no culture to experience or anything to see.
Americans have made it clear that they refuse to stand against their brand of capitalism and the rest of us want nothing to do with it as mini versions of their bullshit get attempted elsewhere.
There's no reason to respect or empathize with the population further. I don't go there for anything but I wouldn't tip anyone either or spit on them if they were on fire. We've run out of empathy and there has been no benefit to being kind to Americans. It's far better to just not have them in your orbit. They won't help themselves so why should we open our wallets.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 38d
This only hurts the workers, dumb Europeans.
This is a systemic issue, it requires something powerful like union effort or massive organization.
Tourists refusing to tip is just a sign they don't understand or respect the problems we face every single day here.
Upvoters in this thread would love this Christo-fascist tactic:
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 37d
But Europeans do tip. It's considered good manners to round up the bill (5-10%).
some_designer_dude@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 38d
Idiots. So backwards. You tip cash, then dash.
Vreyan31@reddthat.com · -2 pts · 37d
As others have said, these European tourists aren't helping the system by doing this.
They are however, getting to enjoy acting like the very worst Americans - the ones who don't tip and feel smug about it.
Objection@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 38d
Only a European could find a way to express their "progessiveism" by stiffing underpaid workers and somehow acting smug and morally superior for it, as if their shit smells like roses.
architect@thelemmy.club · -4 pts · 38d
Tip your servers and bartenders or go to McDonald’s. Don’t be rude while you’re a guest.
Dearth@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 38d
Oh, so they are happy to give their money to the business owners that are not paying their workers enough to live on. And the think that tweeting about their moral highground is good.
great, so these wealthy tourists can return home and the workers are still stuck working for tips. Well, at least these workers don't have to suffer the extra work for much longer. eventually the world cup will end and business will return to normal. How generous of the european elite to give their money to the business owners.
OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 37d
Seems like you’re just being cheap assholes to me. A couple idioms come to mind:
treesquid@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 37d
Self-righteous euro-trash deprive workers of pay they know the workers deserve, in order to stick it to management, who is unaffected by this action. Great work, guys, way to attack the victims of a bad system by making whipping boys of them, I'm sure that their bosses rolling in money from all the extra business are VERY upset. What a bunch of assholes. I'm sure these same pieces of animated fecal matter get upset when tourists to their countries ignore all the local customs and mistreat the workers.
Arachnidbrilliant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -14 pts · 37d
If you can’t tip, don’t go to the restaurant or bar. Those workers depend on their tips. And the restaurant or bar isn’t just gonna make up the difference for the server just because you decided not to tip.
Those Europeans are being dicks.
Devconsole@sh.itjust.works · -20 pts · 37d
We love anti worker Europeans.