This person very clearly does not understand, even at a basic level, how llms work. They are completely incapable of "learning" outside of training, and training cannot happen while you are using them - in no small part because they require MILLIONS of tokens of data (minimum) to be able to recognize patterns.
Meanwhile that theoretical stupid kid she thinks should be paying her masters to have her teach them can learn instantaneously from even a single datapoint.
She's wrong about the advantages of AI, but she's right about how companies are going to see it. It's true that they'd rather deal with AI than an intern, and it's true then that internships will fall onto the universities to coordinate like rotations as part of an expensive education system.
It's also true that kids are learning how to use AI on their own, and are losing their ability to learn from any datapoints, because why do that if the magic box will give you an answer that sounds correct enough? Ultimately, it doesn't matter how useless AI is if everyone acts as if it's as useful as this lady thinks it is.
This was already a thing when I went to university over a decade ago. Partnerships with local businesses where university students basically do work placements, completing low-stakes corporate projects as assignments.
I know this goes against expectation but it was actually really good. I think the difference was that the business actually cared about us, taught us things, and even extended a job offer to people who did well.
I dunno if that program is still good today, probably not.
I'm told that agents these days keep a scratchpad of notes to themselves, so an agent can (kind of) learn about things by making a note about it which it will still have access to later, even outside the formal context window.
It's going to be far more limited than the kind of training you're talking about, but it is something which an individual agent can do
That is sort of true, but it still isn't learning. Basically, it can store information usable by other sessions. But to do so, it just processes that information the same way as a prompt. So less like learning and more like just tacking something on to its context window. So, it never "learns" that information, it just tells itself that thing every time it processes any prompt.
(don't downvote MartianSands' comment - it's a good point. Shame on you)
Say you had a version of chat GPT that hadn't been trained on a corpus that included enough information about the number of Rs the word "strawberry" contains, didn't have workarounds for character counting, and has context sharing.
You ask it "How many Rs does Strawberry contain?"
It burns a bunch of tokens, returns "Strawberry has 7 Rs. No wait, that's not right, strawberry has 5 Rs. No wait..." etc.
You say "Strawberry has 3 Rs. How many Rs does Strawberry have?"
It says "Strawberry has 3 Rs."
You ask "How many Rs does this exact string contain: 'Strawrberrrry'?"
It responds "Strawberry has 3 Rs."
You say "No, it has a different number of Rs. I didn't ask about Strawberry this time"
It responds "Sorry about that! You didn't ask about Strawberry, you asked about Strawrberrrry. Strawrberrrry has 7 Rs. No wait, that's not right. Strawrberrrry has 5 Rs...."
LLMs, at their core, compute lexical & semantic similarity. When they "learn", they more effectively compute lexical similarity (really contextualized vector transformations, but let'snot get into that). Lexical similarity computation is not the same thing as learning concepts, like the concept of numbers, non-numerical things being ascribed numerical values (ironically, since LLMs function by rurning words into numerical vectors), or counting.
When it responds "Strawberry has 3 Rs" it isn't because it knows what that means or how to gain that knowledge about other words. It is merely parroting back what you've told it because "Strawberry has 3 Rs" in its shared context has very close lexical similarity to your query "How many Rs does Strawberry have?". It also parses Strawberry as ["straw", "berry"] encoded into numerical values representing their relationship in the corpus' vector space (e.g. {[ .420, -.67, .67], [.420, .69, -.69]}) - so unless it has instructions to further break those tokens into characters, it does not have the capability to count. You can actually do some weird math using these vectors and their relationships (their distance apart in the 3D vector space, angles between vectors, etc), but you lose granularity such as the number of letters in a token when you look at words this way.
Learning is more than just computing lexical similarity. Modern LLMs mimic reasoning by expanding the query with intermediary tokens, basically creating a temporary scratch pad of related words on the same vector, but don't actually reason (this is known as chain of thought). Learning is partly computing lexical similarity, but it is also about extrapolating concepts from facts and inferences, applying those concepts to novel simuli, etc. LLMs really don't do reasoning, which is part of learning.
I would also like to add another key difference between human learning and machine learning. When I, as a person, read a book, I can conceptually understand the story. A machine would digest that same book by, for example, counting the numbers of times each word comes after another and assigning probabilities to occurrences or words or basic sentences. The major differences are still being explored. We don’t fully understand how humans learn, fundamentally. We know somewhat mechanisticly that neurons share and process chemical signals, but we don’t know how that information is interpreted or stored. We don’t know the equivalent of a computer language of the neurons (or other tissue types that may also learn). We know that we require input to learn, as do computers, the similarities kind of end there. That said, we definitely learn differently from how LLMs “learn.”
“Teach” the LLM the proper procedure for counting the Rs and tell it to commit that to a file (or as a tool call). Then from there it will suceed 100% of the time.
It doesn’t matter if it’s true learning or not. When you teach an employee to do something you give them the procedure and have them do it. If AI can be fed a procedure too, it will do it just fine even if it’s not in its true training. Does it matter if it’s consuming the procedure as prompt context everytime? Hell a lot of humans do read the procedure every time when it’s complex enough.
What the example shows is that you cannot "teach" the llm how to count the letter R, because LLMs don't work that way.
The AI company would have to solve the problem another way, let's say by recognizing that the user is asking for letter-counting, and pass that off to a different kind of algorithm that can count letters.
Yes, and that’s called a harness, which everyone uses these days. The harness increases perceived intelligence (or accuracy) by absurd amounts. You can “teach” (or the equivalent of) LLMs anything with a custom harness.
As you converse with it and it responds, part of the input is just your entire conversation up to that point, and its responses, plus your new prompt. That’s it that’s how the memory works.
And for this you pay an increasing amount for tokens.
In my experience, it seems to be limited to previous conversations, and it may be limited in length.
I pretty regularly delete old conversations, partly with the guide of privacy which I am sure does not actually delete or exist, but also for my own sanity of looking back on projects. And I don't even use AI that much, it's all free tier, mostly Claude.
That said, it will often get "lobotomized" and "forget" things after I delete the source conversation.
It does remember basic things. Like I use it a lot to help set up Docker containers, so it knows I have a Linux machine and a webserver and a Windows Machine. It knows the Linux box runs Docker and is named Squall. It knows these sort of, generic things, even across conversations. I can open a new chat and say "I want to set up a Wordpress sandbox" and it will ask like "Would you like to use Docker on Squall or run it outside a container with Apache."
Most harnesses that people use to interact with llms have memory and skills.
You can "teach" them a skill which is sort of like a macro so you can say "deploy to dev" and it'll look up that skill and execute it without any extra input needed.
For memory it'll keep files on your local of what it's seen before and can pull from the information in those files if necessary. So if you always ask it to label reports in a certain directory "Midwest expansion project" the harness will add that to its memory files and start to label it automatically.
If I'm paying to start working for you, you'd better sign a contract guaranteeing my long term employment at a high salary. Otherwise, what's to stop you from laying me off the second I'm done paying you?
This will happen. In the UK the government tried to bring back slavery in the early 2010s. Unemployed people were told that they had to work for large corporations just to keep getting their unemployment benefits. It came to about £1.50/hour or so when minimum wage was significantly higher than that.
Corporations got free labour out of it, tax payers paid the unemployment benefits for the benefit slaves. They often said you may get a full time job at the end of it. You won't, they will find someone else who is unpaid.
Oh yeah, and some of those unemployed people used to work there but lost their jobs to unemployed people and then had to join them.
PS, we are now also making sure you clock in and out on the dot and tracking your keyboard presses per minute for productivity and reserve the right to use any of these things to terminate you for being a "bad" employee.
What a valuable contribution from the co-founder and CEO of "Cooper AI"... on a platform for business-type show-offs who have nothing better to do than reinforce each other’s outrageous incompetence...
So this is the scope of "Cooper AI’s" operations:
Executives Who Use Cooper Make Better-Informed Decisions.
Cooper uses natural language to generate insights and deliver the high-impact opportunities your executive team needs right now.
I think it’s pretty obvious from this sentence alone that this is nothing more than another front-end that forwards all requests to the actual cloud LLM providers.
It’s truly absurd that there are people who see any added value in this.
Pay peanuts, get monkeys. AI hasn't changed that equation, so if they think that a grad will accept negative pay and come out the other end skilled, they are on crack.
Businesses have always paid to upskill young employees, its a cost of being an employer.
The problem though is that AI reduces the number of places to work at which will increase the competition between applicants. If some employers start doing this there will be applicants that will pay to get ahead. How big of an issue this becomes depends on how big of a competition AI will place on job seekers.
I don't think AI changes that balance all that dramatically. Any business that won't hire juniors now, wouldn't have hired them before, and simply had the "Must have 20+ years experience in [flavour of the month] framework" in their job ads.
And experience from past jobs hasn't really counted for anything beyond "They werent stupid enough to get fired", so paying for experience doesn't make sense either.
All that said, regardless of who has the better crystal ball, its a shit time to be a compsci grad...
They used to, until many realized that there's no reason to train fresh grads if you can just poach then from another company after they've been trained for a while and if you train your own, they will get poached similarly by someone who wants to skip the training. They've been treating it as a zero sum game.
Increasingly few companies will hire fresh grads now. Naturally, that causes a shortage in people with experience. Not to worry, they're now complaining about the lack of potential employees with experience and demanding the government to invest money in advertising our country to third world devs and to let them hire foreigners more easily instead of having to look for people here first. So now part of my tax money goes to an initiative to make sure companies can keep not training young devs.
This had been brewing for years now and I'm disgusted.
There is NO legitimate reason to endure the fresh graduate.
So many incredibly entitled people have never felt the obligation to give to others that which was given to them. These people should be shunned by civil society.
Slopvangelical LLM thumpers are proud of their acquired brain injuries, and believe everyone should be equally enhanced.
The opinion of anyone impressed with the function or output of a LLM, to the level they believe it is in any way adjacent to intelligence, should be summarily dismissed, and if they persist, ridiculed.
This here is hurting more than it may look at first sight when you have children who fall into that category. Ask teachers, they know that kind, and they fear for that kind.
What an absolutely unhinged shit take. Even at the most generous interpretation, LLMs are at the capability level of a stupid intern you always have to check and correct, and it doesn’t learn (possible exceptions is narrowly defined problems spaces like coding)
A few years ago I was chatting with a co-worker. We had the exact same job. I asked him what he would buy with a billion dollars that he couldn't get with $50 million.
He couldn't name any specific thing he'd want, but he was enraged at the idea that $50 million was the same as a billion.
No idea what to do with the money, but he was sure it was 'better.'
He couldn’t name any specific thing he’d want, but he was enraged at the idea that $50 million was the same as a billion.
The question was 'what specific object or experience would you buy with $1 billion that couldn't be purchased for $50 million.'
We agreed that a billion is more money, but my point is that it's meaningless in terms of personal pleasures.
Think of it this way, what's the difference between a bomb of 100 kilos of TNT and a hydrogen bomb when you're standing on top of the bomb when it goes off?
Thanks, now I think I understand that you're saying once you get above 50 million, the amount isn't meaningful.
For me I can see where even $50 million would put limits on my spending. I would love to have a personal super yacht with well paid crew and be able to cruise wherever, whenever. I wouldn't feel that $50M would be safe enough for that, whereas $1B would be. Not that I'll ever have the opportunity to test that.
Some projects would take more than $50M, such as buying enough politicians to make the country a better place. The problem is, most people who lean more altruistic with spending are likely not to accumulate large amounts of money. They are more likely to spend it before it accumulates, or to not accumulate it at all due to their choices.
1B is a bit low for superyachting, you gotta project 10% of purchase price as the annual cost and that'll be tens of millions a year. Gotta have a few more billion invested to stay in the green
Companies would totally force employees to pay for their work, if they could get away with it.
Doesn't forget what you said once you said it
I'm betting she asks the chatbot whether she remembers something or not, which always returns with a dumb "Yes! Of course you remember!"
that will come naturally, it's like saying teach your kids how to use the internet
Considering the amount of kids who think the internet is just youtube, tiktok, instagram, xitter, roblox and whatsapp, yes, we need to teach them how to fucking use the internet.
And by the way, every talking head out there saying that the future rests on teaching our kids how to use AI properly: puh-lease, that will come naturally, it's like saying teach your kids how to use the internet.
Allow me to introduce you to David's Law, the legislative result of not teaching children the dangers of the Internet.
they are asking for a someone to work with a low wage to oversee AI so the acronym would be "Human In The Loop, Economically Restricted". That's why they were all clamoring that they all love H.I.T.L..... oh no, wait, now I get it...
Lol! Claude can be told something repeatedly and will act against directives over and over. It does not help in the least that it tries to humor me by telling me I'm right to push back each time it makes the same mistake, 5 times in a row.
You're right to push back! I'm just stringing together tokens according to probability and have no idea whether what I'm saying is accurate and no understanding of what I'm saying for that matter.
I understand that ai is not sentient. Are we so pedantic now that I have to prove I don't believe ai is true genius even though I'm a mod here? Perhaps if I said "the model was trained on data that made it..." I would be ok? Or we could just know that people bend the meaning of words at times and when it's clear what they meant, we don't have to die on any hills about it.
Yes, but the the same could be said about the post you're replying to. The clarification is useful and more people need to be aware that LLMs are just next word guessing machines and the only AI in them is the guessing including a system prompt that tilts the guessing towards what it thinks an AI output would be. The "you"s in the post don't need to be taken personally.
My point was that it's flat out wrong to think Claude doesn't "forget" anything. It constantly does. I wasn't correcting them based on pedantry but just plain old black and white fact which remains regardless of word choice
This is monumentally out of touch with how universities in the US work these days.
One of the main reasons I choose the university I did was the co-op program - basically curriculum-mandated paid internships. Every other semester after freshman year, I was working a real engineering job at a real engineering company, and by the time I graduated, I had 1.5 - 2 years of actual industry experience and a budding professional network built out. And tons of universities offer programs like this, with more implementing it every year. Try telling a student from one of those universities, "no, see, actually, you have to pay me to work this entry-level job you're already overqualified for". Lol. Lmao, even.
This.
I was required to find a job in the industry over the summer or I was not invited back to college the next year.
If you couldn't find a job/ internship/ or summerstock the faculty would help you find something or, if you were the right person just give you a job because the entire staff was also required to work professionally.
maybe it’ll be like the British Empire where families would save up to buy a commission for their sons? The more money you pay, the higher the rank you could purchase.
All the other issues people already pointed out about this post, there is another point that I didn’t see mentioned. One, among many, dumb things she wrote was basically that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are the only ones who take sick leave. So is she saying other people from other generations just work through their illnesses to the companies benefit and their own (and others) detriment? Mating in reading to far into something that sounds like a stream of consciousness.
That is true, but then why specify a generation in that sentence? Illnesses are experienced by people of every generation. Maybe she is generalizing in that she thinks only people from those generations are in entry level jobs. I just seems odd to add that into a statement that could have been exclusively about LLMs, not about getting sick. Though that said, LLMs are not “immune” to going down for some time due to unexpected external input (e.g. hackers) or internal issues (e.g. buggy code).
Maybe she is generalizing in that she thinks only people from those generations are in entry level jobs
It's exactly this; she's saying people entering the workforce (predominantly young people) are now competing with AI. You can't get experience if you don't get a job, and you can't get a job because you don't have experience has always been a stumbling block, but now AI can do those low-level things that companies used to be willing to let those inexperienced workers cut their teeth on.
What her narrative is interestingly completely ignoring is that not just employees need to gather experience, companies need to get experienced people to handle all that AI outfall and they will get much rarer if the above policy were to become the norm. In her scenario companies would select for rich parents instead of talent, these two things commonly to not correlate very strongly.
So companies are destroying their talent base over peanuts (entry salaries). They will have a serious disadvantage over other companies selecting for talent instead. Of course that is too long term for shareholder value people.
The thing is, if that is so, the employment market will shift (because of a lack of experienced people) and become one dominated by employees again. That will lead also for short termers to the opposite situation described by her above.
True. I guess her logic was just not very easy to understand (in my opinion any way), as it combined multiple topics into what should have been one point.
The paradox of needing experience to get work and work to get experience has been going on some time now. Unfortunately, now companies have an excuse not to hire for entry level positions and therefore not train people up. Although, surely there will be need for entry level positions to grind through mountains of AI output to correct its mistakes. Which is not necessarily the best training, but at least it would be something rather than just not hiring people. Though, many companies probably won’t realize there are mistakes for a while, after which it will probably have skipped past a bunch of recent graduates.
We won't be training the leaders of tomorrow, they will, and selected from whatever pool of elite people they've already vetted. That list won't include the working or poor classes who will be denied the experiences necessary to be included at all. Al isn't just about capabilities, it's about who controls the mechanisms that future wealth and power holders will require to be wealthy and powerful.
Us masses have only one means to power to change the world and that's together. And we adamantly refuse to use it, for some god awful reasons.
What a fucking bunch of drivel. Without students and fresh grads our company would have been bankrupt a long time ago. They are the ones who bring a fresh perspective to the company (we engineer machines for the beverage industry) because they haven't been pushed into a specialist position yet, that breaks any kind of creativity. They are the people that spark a lot of our innovations. If we lose that, the company won't survive for long. AI can't do that because AI isn't fucking creative. Fuck AI and fuck this dumb piece of shit for their dumb fucking take on this.
This is already kinda happening in my field. Baylor currently has a program that includes your 2-year residency as part of the graduate program. Traditionally, you would graduate and then apply for residency at a hospital or clinic approved by our national governing body. The clinic or hospital would pay you way less than what you would regularly be making, but at least it is a liveable wage.
The Baylor program automatically places you with a clinic or hospital they have a deal with, where you work for free and have to continue to pay tuition for those two years. The benefit being that you don't have to actually interview or apply for a residency program.
I practice at a university hospital that declined to participate in the program. We figured that the program would soon become saturated by students with affluent parents with poor work ethic. We've dealt with residents from private universities in the past and the students tend to have little drive and have little personal skills when it comes to dealing with the underprivileged which makes up a large portion of our patient population.
So yeah.... I can see more universities adding some sort of mandatory unpaid internship onto more graduate programs as a scheme to pad out their billed credit hours. It's a win win for the university and the participating businesses, but it is horrible for the students.
It's ridiculous that you basically have to make a hospital over a million dollars while earning nothing before you can even begin to pay off your loans. Worse than that for specialists. I'm not in it but I have friends that went through it and you basically lose your 20s to be comfortable in your 40s.
Yeah, I think the average md would probably be billing anywhere from 2-4 million a year for a hospital. Residents would likely be generating even more considering the brutal schedules some hospitals demand of them.
The most insane Broligarchy, Network State dudes are all in on this because Peter Theil didn't get accepted at Harvard. Look it up, that's for real why he's so against college. So they want to BE college now.
Well you did come to the bring your pitchfork community (:
The funny part is AI and LLM don’t even have to do anything actually intelligent or malicious and we’re already up in arms about a lunatic on linkedin of all places.
I don't get these people who feel like you should be grateful for doing work for them. They are missing the whole point of work. I have my own shit I want to do, there is no way I am giving you my time and paying for it.
this is how guilds were in the pre-industrial days (not labor unions, trade guilds, much worse, no solidarity). your dad would pay like a dowry to a master and you'd become their apprentice.
If a Democrat said something that stupid, MAGA would be blowing it up as if it were the official opinion of the DNC and Every democratic candidate.
So that's what the Dems should do here. Amplify this post widely, and claim that it the new MAGA policy - all entry level workers have to PAY to work, until your company deems you valuable enough to convert you to an unpaid position.
Congratulations! It's like getting a scholarship. Only took six years before you are now eligible to hold a paying position, except there aren't any, any we have to make room for new paying recruits, so you're no longer required. Now you can take your valuable experience to some other company, but they won't hire you because they've got their own pipeline to choose from.
Sociopathic Oligarchs are going to LOVE the concept of the workers paying THEM. Dems need to tell the world that THIS is the future MAGA employment environment, and make them deny it.
One of the paths that AI kills us all, is rooted in this mindset. leading to more concentration of wealth and power, increased corruption/suspension of democracy, and a lack of demand of slaves, and lack of supply of slaves capable of paying oligarchy for the privilege of learning how to serve them better.
The lack of employment driven income, is certain to cause a housing value crisis, which is a fractional banking crisis. The oligarchy/empire is forced into the binary choice of UBI redistribution of their power vs. bailing out the bankster oligarchy and using some of those autonomous weapons made with AI (government blacklisted the best model over not having the privilege to develop these, but fortunately competitors stepped in) to exterminate at least the slaves unable to buy oligarchist protection.
Having the binary choice implies a financial survival/capacity of nation to do anything. While financial incapacity is better than genocide (spoiler that is the binary choice that would be taken), there is still massive hardships to everyone used to the economic convenience of the system, and resulting mad max chaos and starvation brings issues too.
The uni I went to charged a tuition fee for placement year. They did however enforce that placement was only approved placement if it was paid. There was an exception for starting your own company or working for some startups but this was a case by case basis and not many people took this up.
The only error in this is that it’s already happening. This year’s graduates are struggling like never before to secure short term internships necessary for their education. In my uni, we used to have a long list of potential internship placements, but they all said “AI can do better than an intern”… only other universities are accepting students as an informal exchange program
I was an unpaid intern for 6 months to become a paid intern then a year later got fully hired. I see unpaid internships but not making someone pay to be an intern because then what work are they going to do? Local government and local non profits are the best to cold email and ask to speak to a person.
Forgetting the handwave of LLMs and AI - this is a classic problem for a long time. Apprenticeships have existed for a long long time, and the problem of needing skilled labour in the future, but only having unskilled students now is an old one.
In a sense, she's right. Companies need to be compensated somehow to take on apprentices - otherwise you just intern at a company, take way more resources in training than benefit you provide, and then you might fuck off to a competitor all trained up.
But this doesn't have to be "pay for internship" (which is essentially what a trade school is anyway - "you mean I pay money to do welding?", "Yes because you do it so badly at first that you have to do it on practice metal and it's totally unusable and we have teachers helping you practice until they say you're good enough"). This could be making agreements to stay on after your training period, or join a body of some sort that you pay dues towards that sort of acts as insurance against this sort of thing, and the body handles the risk of your training (i.e. a plumbers union or some shit).
When they are fed obvious ragebait they want you to rage with them. Multiple paragraph arguments need to happen in a separate post which will have barely any discussion or votes.
148 Comments
ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml · 115 pts · 13h
This person very clearly does not understand, even at a basic level, how llms work. They are completely incapable of "learning" outside of training, and training cannot happen while you are using them - in no small part because they require MILLIONS of tokens of data (minimum) to be able to recognize patterns.
Meanwhile that theoretical stupid kid she thinks should be paying her masters to have her teach them can learn instantaneously from even a single datapoint.
Signtist@bookwyr.me · 51 pts · 12h
She's wrong about the advantages of AI, but she's right about how companies are going to see it. It's true that they'd rather deal with AI than an intern, and it's true then that internships will fall onto the universities to coordinate like rotations as part of an expensive education system.
It's also true that kids are learning how to use AI on their own, and are losing their ability to learn from any datapoints, because why do that if the magic box will give you an answer that sounds correct enough? Ultimately, it doesn't matter how useless AI is if everyone acts as if it's as useful as this lady thinks it is.
Zarobi@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 1h
This was already a thing when I went to university over a decade ago. Partnerships with local businesses where university students basically do work placements, completing low-stakes corporate projects as assignments.
I know this goes against expectation but it was actually really good. I think the difference was that the business actually cared about us, taught us things, and even extended a job offer to people who did well.
I dunno if that program is still good today, probably not.
MartianSands@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 11h
I'm told that agents these days keep a scratchpad of notes to themselves, so an agent can (kind of) learn about things by making a note about it which it will still have access to later, even outside the formal context window.
It's going to be far more limited than the kind of training you're talking about, but it is something which an individual agent can do
ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 11h
That is sort of true, but it still isn't learning. Basically, it can store information usable by other sessions. But to do so, it just processes that information the same way as a prompt. So less like learning and more like just tacking something on to its context window. So, it never "learns" that information, it just tells itself that thing every time it processes any prompt.
(don't downvote MartianSands' comment - it's a good point. Shame on you)
marduk@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 11h
50 First Prompts
NuanceDemon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 11h
Explain the distinction in more detail, and why it matters.
ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 11h
Say you had a version of chat GPT that hadn't been trained on a corpus that included enough information about the number of Rs the word "strawberry" contains, didn't have workarounds for character counting, and has context sharing.
LLMs, at their core, compute lexical & semantic similarity. When they "learn", they more effectively compute lexical similarity (really contextualized vector transformations, but let'snot get into that). Lexical similarity computation is not the same thing as learning concepts, like the concept of numbers, non-numerical things being ascribed numerical values (ironically, since LLMs function by rurning words into numerical vectors), or counting.
When it responds "Strawberry has 3 Rs" it isn't because it knows what that means or how to gain that knowledge about other words. It is merely parroting back what you've told it because "Strawberry has 3 Rs" in its shared context has very close lexical similarity to your query "How many Rs does Strawberry have?". It also parses Strawberry as ["straw", "berry"] encoded into numerical values representing their relationship in the corpus' vector space (e.g. {[ .420, -.67, .67], [.420, .69, -.69]}) - so unless it has instructions to further break those tokens into characters, it does not have the capability to count. You can actually do some weird math using these vectors and their relationships (their distance apart in the 3D vector space, angles between vectors, etc), but you lose granularity such as the number of letters in a token when you look at words this way.
Learning is more than just computing lexical similarity. Modern LLMs mimic reasoning by expanding the query with intermediary tokens, basically creating a temporary scratch pad of related words on the same vector, but don't actually reason (this is known as chain of thought). Learning is partly computing lexical similarity, but it is also about extrapolating concepts from facts and inferences, applying those concepts to novel simuli, etc. LLMs really don't do reasoning, which is part of learning.
EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 10h
I would also like to add another key difference between human learning and machine learning. When I, as a person, read a book, I can conceptually understand the story. A machine would digest that same book by, for example, counting the numbers of times each word comes after another and assigning probabilities to occurrences or words or basic sentences. The major differences are still being explored. We don’t fully understand how humans learn, fundamentally. We know somewhat mechanisticly that neurons share and process chemical signals, but we don’t know how that information is interpreted or stored. We don’t know the equivalent of a computer language of the neurons (or other tissue types that may also learn). We know that we require input to learn, as do computers, the similarities kind of end there. That said, we definitely learn differently from how LLMs “learn.”
SorryQuick@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 4h
Counterpoint:
“Teach” the LLM the proper procedure for counting the Rs and tell it to commit that to a file (or as a tool call). Then from there it will suceed 100% of the time.
It doesn’t matter if it’s true learning or not. When you teach an employee to do something you give them the procedure and have them do it. If AI can be fed a procedure too, it will do it just fine even if it’s not in its true training. Does it matter if it’s consuming the procedure as prompt context everytime? Hell a lot of humans do read the procedure every time when it’s complex enough.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 3h
What the example shows is that you cannot "teach" the llm how to count the letter R, because LLMs don't work that way.
The AI company would have to solve the problem another way, let's say by recognizing that the user is asking for letter-counting, and pass that off to a different kind of algorithm that can count letters.
SorryQuick@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 2h
Yes, and that’s called a harness, which everyone uses these days. The harness increases perceived intelligence (or accuracy) by absurd amounts. You can “teach” (or the equivalent of) LLMs anything with a custom harness.
4am@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 11h
As you converse with it and it responds, part of the input is just your entire conversation up to that point, and its responses, plus your new prompt. That’s it that’s how the memory works.
And for this you pay an increasing amount for tokens.
Michael Reeves did an interesting piece on it: https://youtube.com/shorts/WP5_XJY_P0Q
NuanceDemon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 5h
Yeah I understand that much, my question was how does that personal record differ from what it already 'knows'.
AmyAye@nord.pub · 1 pts · 9h
In my experience, it seems to be limited to previous conversations, and it may be limited in length.
I pretty regularly delete old conversations, partly with the guide of privacy which I am sure does not actually delete or exist, but also for my own sanity of looking back on projects. And I don't even use AI that much, it's all free tier, mostly Claude.
That said, it will often get "lobotomized" and "forget" things after I delete the source conversation.
It does remember basic things. Like I use it a lot to help set up Docker containers, so it knows I have a Linux machine and a webserver and a Windows Machine. It knows the Linux box runs Docker and is named Squall. It knows these sort of, generic things, even across conversations. I can open a new chat and say "I want to set up a Wordpress sandbox" and it will ask like "Would you like to use Docker on Squall or run it outside a container with Apache."
Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 5h
Most harnesses that people use to interact with llms have memory and skills.
You can "teach" them a skill which is sort of like a macro so you can say "deploy to dev" and it'll look up that skill and execute it without any extra input needed.
For memory it'll keep files on your local of what it's seen before and can pull from the information in those files if necessary. So if you always ask it to label reports in a certain directory "Midwest expansion project" the harness will add that to its memory files and start to label it automatically.
eleijeep@piefed.social · 92 pts · 11h
“Cooper AI Co-founder & CEO”
Why would you expect her take to be anything but brain-dead?
im_fine_sandy@nord.pub · 30 pts · 11h
Exactly.
Im pretty sure graduates aren't beating down her door for the opportunity to work for her.
Sniffing her own farts too much.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 12 pts · 9h
It's 2026 and yes, I can imagine that there are some rich college kids who think paying for an internship with her would be a smart move.
They'd get a chance to build up contacts and see how she operates.
Telling the Queen how good her farts smell has long been a path to success.
Dwayne_Elizondo_Mountain_Dew_Camacho@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 4h
I'm pretty underwhelmed before even clicking...
Cheese_man@lemmy.world · 69 pts · 12h
If I'm paying to start working for you, you'd better sign a contract guaranteeing my long term employment at a high salary. Otherwise, what's to stop you from laying me off the second I'm done paying you?
I'm so tired of these grifters.
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 28 pts · 11h
This will happen. In the UK the government tried to bring back slavery in the early 2010s. Unemployed people were told that they had to work for large corporations just to keep getting their unemployment benefits. It came to about £1.50/hour or so when minimum wage was significantly higher than that.
Corporations got free labour out of it, tax payers paid the unemployment benefits for the benefit slaves. They often said you may get a full time job at the end of it. You won't, they will find someone else who is unpaid.
Oh yeah, and some of those unemployed people used to work there but lost their jobs to unemployed people and then had to join them.
Idontwanttowork@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 11h
To be honest, I always think these kind of internship are just bribery with extra steps lol
AmyAye@nord.pub · 3 pts · 9h
Done.
PS, we are now also making sure you clock in and out on the dot and tracking your keyboard presses per minute for productivity and reserve the right to use any of these things to terminate you for being a "bad" employee.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 10h
In a lot of the asian world, internship aren't paid, some you have to pay for it. I guess Jenny is from one of these country.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 7h
So 2 seconds after youre done paying is okay then?
DandomRude@lemmy.world · 52 pts · 10h
What a valuable contribution from the co-founder and CEO of "Cooper AI"... on a platform for business-type show-offs who have nothing better to do than reinforce each other’s outrageous incompetence...
So this is the scope of "Cooper AI’s" operations:
I think it’s pretty obvious from this sentence alone that this is nothing more than another front-end that forwards all requests to the actual cloud LLM providers.
It’s truly absurd that there are people who see any added value in this.
architect@thelemmy.club · 6 pts · 8h
No need to do that for this. They can easily use an open model for this work.
And prompting is like script kiddie shit. That’s the go to when people don’t understand how to train these models.
cantstopthesignal@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 9h
Hey now, they added some value like a few lines of prompt to the claude api call.
altphoto@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 9h
It's ok, she made a mistake in the post so it's all human written. Everything Gaddam thing is just telling us how human she is.
CameronDev@programming.dev · 50 pts · 13h
Pay peanuts, get monkeys. AI hasn't changed that equation, so if they think that a grad will accept negative pay and come out the other end skilled, they are on crack.
Businesses have always paid to upskill young employees, its a cost of being an employer.
Mardukas@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 13h
The problem though is that AI reduces the number of places to work at which will increase the competition between applicants. If some employers start doing this there will be applicants that will pay to get ahead. How big of an issue this becomes depends on how big of a competition AI will place on job seekers.
CameronDev@programming.dev · 13 pts · 13h
I don't think AI changes that balance all that dramatically. Any business that won't hire juniors now, wouldn't have hired them before, and simply had the "Must have 20+ years experience in [flavour of the month] framework" in their job ads.
And experience from past jobs hasn't really counted for anything beyond "They werent stupid enough to get fired", so paying for experience doesn't make sense either.
All that said, regardless of who has the better crystal ball, its a shit time to be a compsci grad...
boonhet@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3h
They used to, until many realized that there's no reason to train fresh grads if you can just poach then from another company after they've been trained for a while and if you train your own, they will get poached similarly by someone who wants to skip the training. They've been treating it as a zero sum game.
Increasingly few companies will hire fresh grads now. Naturally, that causes a shortage in people with experience. Not to worry, they're now complaining about the lack of potential employees with experience and demanding the government to invest money in advertising our country to third world devs and to let them hire foreigners more easily instead of having to look for people here first. So now part of my tax money goes to an initiative to make sure companies can keep not training young devs.
This had been brewing for years now and I'm disgusted.
tuckerm@feddit.online · 37 pts · 6h
So many incredibly entitled people have never felt the obligation to give to others that which was given to them. These people should be shunned by civil society.
red_bull_of_juarez@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 30 pts · 10h
I wish we could fire idiots like this. Out of a cannon. Into the sun.
nonentity@sh.itjust.works · 30 pts · 13h
Slopvangelical LLM thumpers are proud of their acquired brain injuries, and believe everyone should be equally enhanced.
The opinion of anyone impressed with the function or output of a LLM, to the level they believe it is in any way adjacent to intelligence, should be summarily dismissed, and if they persist, ridiculed.
Cheese_man@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 12h
My LinkedIn feed is overflowing with executives unabashedly posting their navel-gazing chats with bots.
"What would you look like?" "What is it like to be you?"
They're just so excited to finally have a friend at work, I think.
ladicius@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 12h
This here is hurting more than it may look at first sight when you have children who fall into that category. Ask teachers, they know that kind, and they fear for that kind.
slaacaa@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 7h
What an absolutely unhinged shit take. Even at the most generous interpretation, LLMs are at the capability level of a stupid intern you always have to check and correct, and it doesn’t learn (possible exceptions is narrowly defined problems spaces like coding)
Wunz@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 5h
And they absolutely do forget things you say. It doesn't even take that much context.
pachrist@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 6h
Tell me your parents have money without telling me your parents have money.
shweddy@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 10h
As a side note, you should be teaching your kids how to use the internet
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 21 pts · 13h
Or, we could just give everyone UBI and admit that capitalism is a failure?
Stop worrying about profit and just let people have enough to be happy?
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 11h
Just like there is no crying in the casino, there is no logic or empathy in the mental illness epidemic of fascism.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 3 pts · 9h
A few years ago I was chatting with a co-worker. We had the exact same job. I asked him what he would buy with a billion dollars that he couldn't get with $50 million.
He couldn't name any specific thing he'd want, but he was enraged at the idea that $50 million was the same as a billion.
No idea what to do with the money, but he was sure it was 'better.'
min@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 9h
Can you explain this more? Did he think that million and billion are the same quantity?
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 1 pts · 8h
He couldn’t name any specific thing he’d want, but he was enraged at the idea that $50 million was the same as a billion.
The question was 'what specific object or experience would you buy with $1 billion that couldn't be purchased for $50 million.'
We agreed that a billion is more money, but my point is that it's meaningless in terms of personal pleasures.
Think of it this way, what's the difference between a bomb of 100 kilos of TNT and a hydrogen bomb when you're standing on top of the bomb when it goes off?
min@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 8h
Thanks, now I think I understand that you're saying once you get above 50 million, the amount isn't meaningful.
For me I can see where even $50 million would put limits on my spending. I would love to have a personal super yacht with well paid crew and be able to cruise wherever, whenever. I wouldn't feel that $50M would be safe enough for that, whereas $1B would be. Not that I'll ever have the opportunity to test that.
Some projects would take more than $50M, such as buying enough politicians to make the country a better place. The problem is, most people who lean more altruistic with spending are likely not to accumulate large amounts of money. They are more likely to spend it before it accumulates, or to not accumulate it at all due to their choices.
boonhet@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3h
1B is a bit low for superyachting, you gotta project 10% of purchase price as the annual cost and that'll be tens of millions a year. Gotta have a few more billion invested to stay in the green
ICastFist@programming.dev · 21 pts · 12h
Companies would totally force employees to pay for their work, if they could get away with it.
I'm betting she asks the chatbot whether she remembers something or not, which always returns with a dumb "Yes! Of course you remember!"
Considering the amount of kids who think the internet is just youtube, tiktok, instagram, xitter, roblox and whatsapp, yes, we need to teach them how to fucking use the internet.
X@piefed.world · 20 pts · 8h
ControversialSewage-brained take:theacharnian@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 5h
Capitalist brainrot.
That said, coop programs exist.
fartographer@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 5h
Allow me to introduce you to David's Law, the legislative result of not teaching children the dangers of the Internet.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 3h
puh-leese!
fartographer@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1h
Oops, we both typoed
ZMoney@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 8h
I have a hard time believing a human would actually say this.
fireweed@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 7h
Well I'm inclined to believe that a machine would at least keep its acronyms straight (HOTL = Human In The Loop???)
andallthat@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 7h
they are asking for a someone to work with a low wage to oversee AI so the acronym would be "Human In The Loop, Economically Restricted". That's why they were all clamoring that they all love H.I.T.L..... oh no, wait, now I get it...
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 10h
HOTL > Human In The Loop
Jenny, you have one job.
I think the CEO mean Chief Executive Idiot.
I felt bad for your ancestor, that my ancestor can feel the second hand shame.
I'm out of insult for now.
PyroNeurosis@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 5h
Freudian slip. Wanted to say Human out of loop.
Krauerking@lemy.lol · 1 pts · 3h
Yeah this is the only part I noticed and cared about. God their brain is not working.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 11h
Lol! Claude can be told something repeatedly and will act against directives over and over. It does not help in the least that it tries to humor me by telling me I'm right to push back each time it makes the same mistake, 5 times in a row.
im_fine_sandy@nord.pub · 14 pts · 11h
You're right to push back! I'm just stringing together tokens according to probability and have no idea whether what I'm saying is accurate and no understanding of what I'm saying for that matter.
tmyakal@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 10h
No, it doesn't. It has no concept of you or of what might appease you. It's just a really fancy predictive text spreadsheet.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 10h
I understand that ai is not sentient. Are we so pedantic now that I have to prove I don't believe ai is true genius even though I'm a mod here? Perhaps if I said "the model was trained on data that made it..." I would be ok? Or we could just know that people bend the meaning of words at times and when it's clear what they meant, we don't have to die on any hills about it.
min@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 8h
Yes, but the the same could be said about the post you're replying to. The clarification is useful and more people need to be aware that LLMs are just next word guessing machines and the only AI in them is the guessing including a system prompt that tilts the guessing towards what it thinks an AI output would be. The "you"s in the post don't need to be taken personally.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 8h
My point was that it's flat out wrong to think Claude doesn't "forget" anything. It constantly does. I wasn't correcting them based on pedantry but just plain old black and white fact which remains regardless of word choice
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 7h
This is monumentally out of touch with how universities in the US work these days.
One of the main reasons I choose the university I did was the co-op program - basically curriculum-mandated paid internships. Every other semester after freshman year, I was working a real engineering job at a real engineering company, and by the time I graduated, I had 1.5 - 2 years of actual industry experience and a budding professional network built out. And tons of universities offer programs like this, with more implementing it every year. Try telling a student from one of those universities, "no, see, actually, you have to pay me to work this entry-level job you're already overqualified for". Lol. Lmao, even.
Doublenut@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 6h
This. I was required to find a job in the industry over the summer or I was not invited back to college the next year. If you couldn't find a job/ internship/ or summerstock the faculty would help you find something or, if you were the right person just give you a job because the entire staff was also required to work professionally.
kat_angstrom@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 12h
This person has no idea what the economy is really like for normal people.
horn_e4_beaver@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 9h
The Government will create money and give it to the poor who will then give it to the rich so that they can get a job. What is not to understand?
Funkt4st1c@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 4h
Hey jackass, how are they supposed to pay you if they dont have a job?
HCSOThrowaway@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 3h
They'll probably expect them to take out loans or get money from their parents, same as people in unpaid internships.
Just one more tool to widen the income gap.
Smaile@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 8h
Yah, not slavery tho 🙄
BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 7h
If your employee is paying you for the pleasure of working, then the terms are not slave/master, it's prostitute/pimp.
Smaile@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 7h
That sounds about right lul
lemmy_outta_here@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 7h
yeah. slaves don’t have to pay for the privilege
tempest@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 10h
It's funny how all the crypto chuds slid so easily over into the AI space.
Arancello@aussie.zone · 13 pts · 13h
maybe it’ll be like the British Empire where families would save up to buy a commission for their sons? The more money you pay, the higher the rank you could purchase.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 11 pts · 13h
There was a reason they stopped doing that.
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 7 pts · 13h
Only one?
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 3 pts · 9h
Now we're arguing language and usage.
When you wash your hands, is it a general thing, or are you concerned with each individual germ?
Generally speaking, it was a bad idea. There were probably a lot of specific problems covered.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 8h
Jenny K can go lick a cactus.
D_C@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 8h
What did the cactus do to deserve such treatment?
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 7h
It didn't pay any CEO for the privilege to sit there and grow obviously /s
OldChicoAle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3h
Or shove it up her butt
mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 12h
Well, she's right about it being a controversial take.
She's also proving her point about "the face-palm 'wow this kid knows nothing" moments.
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 6h
Yes, do this, please. Kill off all the ladders up and make people so desperate that revolution is impossible to avoid.
AviAdi@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 4h
This is why we need Luigi
SethTaylor@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 3h
In the music industry we call this pay-to-play. It's when an opening band pays to open for an established act, for "exposure"
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1h
They sometimes actually pay? I figured they might play for free, but not pay.
EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 10h
All the other issues people already pointed out about this post, there is another point that I didn’t see mentioned. One, among many, dumb things she wrote was basically that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are the only ones who take sick leave. So is she saying other people from other generations just work through their illnesses to the companies benefit and their own (and others) detriment? Mating in reading to far into something that sounds like a stream of consciousness.
usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 10h
She's comparing them to AI. AI doesn't take sick leave
EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 10h
That is true, but then why specify a generation in that sentence? Illnesses are experienced by people of every generation. Maybe she is generalizing in that she thinks only people from those generations are in entry level jobs. I just seems odd to add that into a statement that could have been exclusively about LLMs, not about getting sick. Though that said, LLMs are not “immune” to going down for some time due to unexpected external input (e.g. hackers) or internal issues (e.g. buggy code).
usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 9h
It's exactly this; she's saying people entering the workforce (predominantly young people) are now competing with AI. You can't get experience if you don't get a job, and you can't get a job because you don't have experience has always been a stumbling block, but now AI can do those low-level things that companies used to be willing to let those inexperienced workers cut their teeth on.
Jiral@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 7h
What her narrative is interestingly completely ignoring is that not just employees need to gather experience, companies need to get experienced people to handle all that AI outfall and they will get much rarer if the above policy were to become the norm. In her scenario companies would select for rich parents instead of talent, these two things commonly to not correlate very strongly.
So companies are destroying their talent base over peanuts (entry salaries). They will have a serious disadvantage over other companies selecting for talent instead. Of course that is too long term for shareholder value people.
usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 7h
Oh yes, completely agree it's short-sighted of the companies, but that's the way they operate these days.
Jiral@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 7h
The thing is, if that is so, the employment market will shift (because of a lack of experienced people) and become one dominated by employees again. That will lead also for short termers to the opposite situation described by her above.
EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 8h
True. I guess her logic was just not very easy to understand (in my opinion any way), as it combined multiple topics into what should have been one point.
The paradox of needing experience to get work and work to get experience has been going on some time now. Unfortunately, now companies have an excuse not to hire for entry level positions and therefore not train people up. Although, surely there will be need for entry level positions to grind through mountains of AI output to correct its mistakes. Which is not necessarily the best training, but at least it would be something rather than just not hiring people. Though, many companies probably won’t realize there are mistakes for a while, after which it will probably have skipped past a bunch of recent graduates.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianehamilton/2025/03/01/are-entry-level-jobs-going-away-the-hidden-workforce-shift/
boonhet@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3h
I think the stereotype she's going for is "young people are lazy and take sick days when sick" hence the generations.
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 6h
Jenny is a dumb ass.
myyass@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2h
Jenny will wonder why she got zeroed in a back alley. The world works a bit different.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 11h
She can't even acronym correctly.
Furbag@pawb.social · 3 pts · 8h
Fuck I'm so glad I was not the only one who noticed that.
Being a CEO is 100% a confidence game. I'm sure of it after seeing these AI stooges speak their minds.
FrankFrankson@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 12h
That woman needs a daily flaming bag of dog shit ding dong ditched at her front door.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 2h
We won't be training the leaders of tomorrow, they will, and selected from whatever pool of elite people they've already vetted. That list won't include the working or poor classes who will be denied the experiences necessary to be included at all. Al isn't just about capabilities, it's about who controls the mechanisms that future wealth and power holders will require to be wealthy and powerful.
Us masses have only one means to power to change the world and that's together. And we adamantly refuse to use it, for some god awful reasons.
kazerniel@piefed.world · 9 pts · 6h
!linkedinlunatics@sh.itjust.works material
funkreddit@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 11h
This.Bitch
Ibuthyr@feddit.org · 7 pts · 2h
What a fucking bunch of drivel. Without students and fresh grads our company would have been bankrupt a long time ago. They are the ones who bring a fresh perspective to the company (we engineer machines for the beverage industry) because they haven't been pushed into a specialist position yet, that breaks any kind of creativity. They are the people that spark a lot of our innovations. If we lose that, the company won't survive for long. AI can't do that because AI isn't fucking creative. Fuck AI and fuck this dumb piece of shit for their dumb fucking take on this.
Sorry for the incoherent swearing, I'm drunk.
Love you all, have a great day!
fake_tourist@thelemmy.club · 7 pts · 7h
it already happens in India lmao and has been that way since decades unfortunately...
SpruceBringsteen@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 13h
#3: FALSE
TuringCompleteSocialist@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 11h
I like how we are ignoring the other solutions and we just go straight to "they will pay to work".
obvs@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 3h
Who's going to tell her that having employees already involves employers taking some of the value produced by employees' work?
ms_lane@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 13h
They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work!
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 9h
This is already kinda happening in my field. Baylor currently has a program that includes your 2-year residency as part of the graduate program. Traditionally, you would graduate and then apply for residency at a hospital or clinic approved by our national governing body. The clinic or hospital would pay you way less than what you would regularly be making, but at least it is a liveable wage.
The Baylor program automatically places you with a clinic or hospital they have a deal with, where you work for free and have to continue to pay tuition for those two years. The benefit being that you don't have to actually interview or apply for a residency program.
I practice at a university hospital that declined to participate in the program. We figured that the program would soon become saturated by students with affluent parents with poor work ethic. We've dealt with residents from private universities in the past and the students tend to have little drive and have little personal skills when it comes to dealing with the underprivileged which makes up a large portion of our patient population.
So yeah.... I can see more universities adding some sort of mandatory unpaid internship onto more graduate programs as a scheme to pad out their billed credit hours. It's a win win for the university and the participating businesses, but it is horrible for the students.
cantstopthesignal@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 9h
There's a lot of auto-admit programs starting to develop in medical school and I can't think of the reason why other than what you said.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 9h
Yeah, the residency program for medicine definitely needs to be fixed, but this didn't do anything but make it worse for the students.
cantstopthesignal@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 6h
It's ridiculous that you basically have to make a hospital over a million dollars while earning nothing before you can even begin to pay off your loans. Worse than that for specialists. I'm not in it but I have friends that went through it and you basically lose your 20s to be comfortable in your 40s.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 5h
Yeah, I think the average md would probably be billing anywhere from 2-4 million a year for a hospital. Residents would likely be generating even more considering the brutal schedules some hospitals demand of them.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 5h
The most insane Broligarchy, Network State dudes are all in on this because Peter Theil didn't get accepted at Harvard. Look it up, that's for real why he's so against college. So they want to BE college now.
IpsumLauren@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 12h
tl;dr: "Teach your kids to use my product."
normalentrance@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 11h
This is just rage bait.
kingofras@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 11h
Well you did come to the bring your pitchfork community (:
The funny part is AI and LLM don’t even have to do anything actually intelligent or malicious and we’re already up in arms about a lunatic on linkedin of all places.
svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 1h
People will never be free until the last CEO is strangled with the entrails of the last linkedin lunatic.
RagingRobot@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2h
I don't get these people who feel like you should be grateful for doing work for them. They are missing the whole point of work. I have my own shit I want to do, there is no way I am giving you my time and paying for it.
bowsertattoo@piefed.social · 3 pts · 4h
this is how guilds were in the pre-industrial days (not labor unions, trade guilds, much worse, no solidarity). your dad would pay like a dowry to a master and you'd become their apprentice.
sartalon@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 11h
This person is not unique and just another example of the tech-bro sycophants.
They think they represent an advanced level or "new generation" of productivity, but are in fact the Uncle Tom's of the tech industry.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 10h
If a Democrat said something that stupid, MAGA would be blowing it up as if it were the official opinion of the DNC and Every democratic candidate.
So that's what the Dems should do here. Amplify this post widely, and claim that it the new MAGA policy - all entry level workers have to PAY to work, until your company deems you valuable enough to convert you to an unpaid position.
Congratulations! It's like getting a scholarship. Only took six years before you are now eligible to hold a paying position, except there aren't any, any we have to make room for new paying recruits, so you're no longer required. Now you can take your valuable experience to some other company, but they won't hire you because they've got their own pipeline to choose from.
Sociopathic Oligarchs are going to LOVE the concept of the workers paying THEM. Dems need to tell the world that THIS is the future MAGA employment environment, and make them deny it.
13igTyme@piefed.social · 3 pts · 12h
Fast learners, remember everything, and only teach something once.
Haha not for the gen growing up with AI. It's quite the opposite.
daggermoon@piefed.world · 3 pts · 11h
I'd rather die.
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 11h
Don't worry, you might. Only those with wealthy parents will get jobs.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 7h
Brilliant! When can I sign up?
One of the paths that AI kills us all, is rooted in this mindset. leading to more concentration of wealth and power, increased corruption/suspension of democracy, and a lack of demand of slaves, and lack of supply of slaves capable of paying oligarchy for the privilege of learning how to serve them better.
The lack of employment driven income, is certain to cause a housing value crisis, which is a fractional banking crisis. The oligarchy/empire is forced into the binary choice of UBI redistribution of their power vs. bailing out the bankster oligarchy and using some of those autonomous weapons made with AI (government blacklisted the best model over not having the privilege to develop these, but fortunately competitors stepped in) to exterminate at least the slaves unable to buy oligarchist protection.
Having the binary choice implies a financial survival/capacity of nation to do anything. While financial incapacity is better than genocide (spoiler that is the binary choice that would be taken), there is still massive hardships to everyone used to the economic convenience of the system, and resulting mad max chaos and starvation brings issues too.
UBI must be chosen today. Not after it gets worse. https://naturalfinance.blogspot.com/2026/09/a-global-prosperity-manifesto.html
tazeycrazy@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 8h
The uni I went to charged a tuition fee for placement year. They did however enforce that placement was only approved placement if it was paid. There was an exception for starting your own company or working for some startups but this was a case by case basis and not many people took this up.
Eq0@literature.cafe · 2 pts · 9h
The only error in this is that it’s already happening. This year’s graduates are struggling like never before to secure short term internships necessary for their education. In my uni, we used to have a long list of potential internship placements, but they all said “AI can do better than an intern”… only other universities are accepting students as an informal exchange program
tpotatomasher99@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1h
"When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich"
redditmodssucks@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 7h
I was an unpaid intern for 6 months to become a paid intern then a year later got fully hired. I see unpaid internships but not making someone pay to be an intern because then what work are they going to do? Local government and local non profits are the best to cold email and ask to speak to a person.
carrylex@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1h
cinoreus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 7h
Mangoholic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 11h
Next gens are ai stupid so their will be a shortage of education in general
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 7h
Its time.
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 1 pts · 9h
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 1 pts · 9h
That's how it used to work way back when. You had to pay to get an apprenticeship.
venuswasaflytrap@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 11h
Forgetting the handwave of LLMs and AI - this is a classic problem for a long time. Apprenticeships have existed for a long long time, and the problem of needing skilled labour in the future, but only having unskilled students now is an old one.
In a sense, she's right. Companies need to be compensated somehow to take on apprentices - otherwise you just intern at a company, take way more resources in training than benefit you provide, and then you might fuck off to a competitor all trained up.
But this doesn't have to be "pay for internship" (which is essentially what a trade school is anyway - "you mean I pay money to do welding?", "Yes because you do it so badly at first that you have to do it on practice metal and it's totally unusable and we have teachers helping you practice until they say you're good enough"). This could be making agreements to stay on after your training period, or join a body of some sort that you pay dues towards that sort of acts as insurance against this sort of thing, and the body handles the risk of your training (i.e. a plumbers union or some shit).
kingofras@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 10h
So that’s not how this community works I found.
When they are fed obvious ragebait they want you to rage with them. Multiple paragraph arguments need to happen in a separate post which will have barely any discussion or votes.