Well that explains why it's ok to kill a woman and therefore her fetus to prevent her from killing her fetus. It's not, but you can keep every abortion doctor in the area to prevent them from performing the procedure.
Do you have to have "standing"? Like do you actually have to even know the woman or is this just an open bounty on doctors?
A lot of the lobbying money for anti healthcare stuff comes from woowoo supplement companies etc. Imo we should be regulating the shit out of those companies at every level of government. Ban advertising for the products to prevent false claims, etc.
I was actually quite stumped by the "abortion is murder!" argument initially as it can get philosophical quick on what constitutes a life that can be "murdered" (i.e. does it have to be birthed, walking, able, etc, this is a bad summary)— but the spike in alt right violence against women, children, and just people in general in the US made the hypocrisy glaringly obvious.
If you see someone trying to kill a woman while claiming she's trying to get an abortion, you can kill this attacker without issue under the legal classification of acting to protect two people, including a soon-born. Is this what Republicans want? To facilitate the legal argument to kill right-wingers? Because I'd be totally fine with that.
By similar logic, couldn't one kill the legislators who passed this bill? They are clearly inviting violence upon pregnant women, so it should theoretically be legal to kill them in defense of those women if this bill passes.
you'd be legally right but the cops will still squeal up in their full military gear and shoot you all the same. Although to be fair they were probably going to do that anyway.
I mean Republicans are stupid and all but I think they're intending for this to be a deterrent. It's a stupid and cruel deterrent, but it's probably not meant to somehow kill the woman without killing the baby.
it might not be meant for that, but it will be used to excuse that
essentially through the entire pregnancy people will get to be terrified as all it'd take to legally murder them would be making them look like they wanted an abortion
I'm pretty sure that I saw a depressing statistic about the number of pregnant women getting murdered now. An unfortunate number of men murder their pregnant wives/girlfriends.
Using deadly force against a pregnant woman leads to a dying fetus. That’s just the same thing the long way around. It also gives an infinite loophole to use deadly force against someone using deadly force. Basically the whole country could kill itself legally, with only one person surviving 🤷🏻♂️
So is this just another one of those cases where Texas or one of the other mad Max worshipping chaos states, is trying to implement its law nationally.
That shows just how much they genuinely care for the life of the fetus. If the woman wants/needs to abort then it's wrong. But if the woman wants/needs to abort then both lives are now forfeit
It's basically an excuse to shoot any woman, anytime, so long as you can conceive of a way to claim that you thought she was seeking an abortion. It would be a prosecutorial nightmare, at best, and open season on women at worst.
it’s hard to see why any sane woman would want to remain in that state
Plenty of people don't want to stay in a place they are oppressed, but the thing about being oppressed is that it often also makes it hard to leave that place.
Bills like these get passed quietly and in darkness. I agree with your sentiment, but it's on us to build the uproar that prevents it from making it any further.
It doesn't sound like Hate, it sounds like Slavery.
Hate would be activelly going out and trying to kill women, whilst punishing them for not letting their bodies be used by others as objects is, IMHO, much more a Slaver's take on other human beings.
A Slaver's motivation would also be pretty in tune with Tradition for Republican members of the power elites in North Carolina.
You've also got to remember that most of these people have never had a proper relationship with a woman in their lives, so they wouldn't know about any of this.
Abortions are actually very common due to miscarriages. I was personally affected by this and was present for a 9 month old abortion of a stillbirth. Even though my wife gave birth it was classified as an abortion because the baby had passed. We even have a abortion certificate.
So, according to proposed law a gunman could enter the hospital and kill the doctors, nurses, my wife and me in order to stop an abortion of a dead baby.
It's a different and more complicated kind of hate. I find it useful to split bigotry into bigotry to dominate and bigotry to exterminate. American racism towards black people is the former, while American racism towards indigenous people is the latter.
Misogyny is almost always about domination, but it's a unique kind because they can't switch to extermination or even bluff it. They can't hide women away to exist quietly in the background. They're fully dependent on women to reproduce, and for most misogynistic men, for sexual pleasure. Many of them resent that they're dependent on those they see as inferior for such things and that they can be leveraged.
So yeah, this is hate, just a hate that they can deny because they don't want to think that they hate women, just women's independence.
Well, I suppose the broader point I'm making is that it's Sociopathy/Psychopathy.
The most harm done to people (I would even say, the most Evil) comes from people who couldn't care less for how other people feel because they have no Empathy with other people's suffering, and thus when they can will do whatever to others for their own personal upsides, even if those "upsides" are only satisfying their own personal petty psychological desires such as those you point out.
Hate actually involves some element of thinking of and caring about the other person (though a negative "caring", of the "I want to make them suffer"), a kind of Evil which is very rare in real life even if it's the most common in the movie "evil guy" stereotype.
As I've learned (from amongst other things working in the Finance Industry), the most common Evil is people knowingly doing things harmful to others to make money for themselves, get (more) power and influence or simply satisfy petty internal desires such as wanting to feel dominance over others (this later being, IMHO, the core of Moralism).
That's fair, but we also don't know that he doesn't actively hate women. Just because you don't want someone dead doesn't mean you don't have active hatred for them.
Most evil is banal, but quite a few people move to hating groups that they initially were hurting out of self interested gain. I've seen plenty of hate and it's often a means of bypassing empathy for some reason or another
More accurately: someone raped a 14 year old girl, the pregnancy has become ectopic. The punishment for trying to save her life is worse than the person who raped a 14 year old.
Lots of ifs/ands/ors/ and buts. Varies by state and generally only under legally defined self defense situations with some judicial discrepancy, mind you it varies by state and some regions are so loose with it that you can just get murdered by going on someone's property. Which may make sense if you live in the middle of fucking nowhere and give warnings and are a thirty minute drive from another person but there have been cases where shit like that happens in suburbs,.
I swear to god they’re trying to legislate a civil war. They preach us vs them political rhetoric and want everyone running around with a gun. What a shit time to call yourself an American, but then again I’m not sure there ever was a good time.
I swear to god they’re trying to legislate a civil war.
Yes. Thats what they want. They want a mass uprising that they can use to suspend rule of law, elections, etc, so trump can become el' presidente' for life and commence to doing whatever the republicans want to do, free from oversight of law, courts, etc.
I think its also them seeing vigilantism as a way to get around constitutional requirements like due process and the 8th amendment. This is the kind of law people created by people who see the constitution as an obstacle.
It is somewhat comforting that they still see the constitution as a barrier to the hellscape they envision for society.
Here is the proposed text of the NC state constitutional amendment affirming personhood at conception, then including:
Any person has the right to defend his or her own life or the life of another person, even by the use of deadly force if necessary, from willful destruction by another person.
Here is the NC Dept. of Health and Human Service’s required abortion information describing the state’s abortion laws. They ban after 12 weeks, with exceptions for rape and incest before 20 weeks, and life-threatening anomalies before 24 weeks.
Here from the Raleigh Observer quoting state democratic lawmaker Rep. Julie von Haefen:
Von Haefen said the bill is a distraction from other bills being voted on and passed, including multiple constitutional amendments concerning unions and taxes, at least some of which will be on the ballot for North Carolinians to weigh. She said the amendments “are being used to drive conservative voter turnout.”
And here is my take: NC state republicans use women’s healthcare as a political pawn for pushing anti-worker and anti-tax interests, which neatly encapsulates the US culture war for the past 60 years. This bill will not pass, because it is insane, but it may succeed in its intent: looting the pockets of the people of NC.
Killing live people - women, children, POCs, poor, other countries, etc - has always been acceptable and even promoted by Republicans. It's only ending potential pregnancies when they "care" about lives. Except of course when it's their wife, mistress, daughter who wants an abortion, then it's ok.
If I were to summarize how this fits into long term republican vision of society it would be the following.
"Abortion, like healthcare, home ownership, and free speech is a thing we should reserve solely to for the wealthy and anybody making less than 2 million a year should not have access to any of these things"
2 million a year is a close to perfect way to divide the owning class for the rest of us. A surgeon has more in common with a grocery store clerk than a CEO and people really don't understand that.
It should be remembered its always an elitist view when people view a subset of the population as unable to appreciate, unworthy to have or 'going to far with' a freedom.
Voters hate women... you don't have to vote for these ass clowns but you do anyway and I bet a significant portion of women vote for them., just as they do for Trump. in particular white women vote Trump
There’s no mystery. White women handed Trump the election
I can't even... Use of deadly force to save a baby in a mother's womb? Are you like supposed also do a C-section right there on the spot so that the mother dies but the baby is fine?
Keep in mind, this is deadly force to prevent an abortion. Abortions are only done during the time that child is unviable. Essentially no providers give abortions past 24 weeks. So, even if you use deadly force to prevent an abortion, the baby is pretty much gauranteed to be unable to survive outside the mother at that point. You are then undoubtedly killing both mother and fetus.
This is unbelievable. I remember reading into misogyny through the ages and there was a law like this in one of earth's oldest human societies. How have we gone this far back???
I beg to differ. Today this is moneyed elites throwing certifiably insane people concessions because sane people would impose taxes on the rich. To the wealthy protecting their money comes before the freedom of the masses.
Any intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned. A situation in which the killer intends only to inflict serious bodily harm, knowing this could result in death but with no specific intent to kill, constitutes depraved-heart murder, which can be considered as second-degree murder.
Are they punished differently in the US? In most countries there isn't really a distinction because of the difficulty in proving intent.
If somebody repeatedly kicks and punches somebody into unconsciousness and ultimately kills them from internal bleeding is that first degree or second degree?
Intent is not the difference. The difference is planning.
I am not a lawyer, but this my understand:
If you're enjoying a quiet time in the park and a kid shouts, which disturbs you, so you shoot the kid in the head. You intended to kill the kid. You aimed at his head and shot a deadly weapon.
However, it was not planned. Your plan was to enjoy a quiet time in the park. You just killed the kid because of a momentary rage. You didn't even know the kid.
I believe that would be second degree.
If you didn't intend to kill, that would be something else, like gross negligence or whatever. For example running a red light and killing a kid that you didn't even see because your enormous American car (which you call a truck, but the bed is always empty). That would not be first or second degree murder. In America it may just result in a traffic violation because you ran a red light. Might be a 100$ fine.
Likely second, unless there was some evidence it was planned in some way. Like, if they also found a text talking about how much they hated that guy and wished he was dead, you could make a case for first. If there was a plan to bring the person to an isolated location for their fight, it would likely be first in that case. Same could be said for tracking their work shifts in preparation, casing their house to see when they're alone, etc.
Not necessarily. According to the article above, even if you plan to beat the guy, it can still be second degree. If your plan was just to beat him up (without killing), then it's second degree. Since the death itself wasn't planned. Only the great bodily harm was planned.
EDIT: "depraved-heart murder, which can be considered second-degree"
Generally speaking, second degree doesn't involve premeditation. You get in a bar fight and kill someone or walk in on your wife with another man and shoot in a blind rage.
Manslaughter is generally when you kill someone criminally without intent. That would be something like running a stoplight, which is a crime, and t-boning a car killing a passenger. You were committing a non-violent crime with no intent to hurt anyone, but you still killed someone.
Felony Murder in many states is when you commit a felony that leads to someone's death. For instance, you commit arson for insurance money (a felony), and someone gets killed trying to put it out. It's also been used on robbery accomplices when their partner kills someone.
Depraved Heart Murder is when you knowingly do something so incredibly reckless someone is likely to get killed and choose to move forward. The depraved indifference in that case is considered malice aforethought (essentially intent). An example would be knowingly selling tainted medicine for profit. A great real-life example was the Schlitterbahn executive that paid off injury victims for a dangerous waterside to keep them quiet because the slide was really profitable until a kid was decapitated by the ride. The executive was charged with murder for covering up the dangerous ride instead of shutting down and fixing it.
Depending on the jurisdiction and the specifics, a strong case could be made for depraved heart murder, felony murder, or manslaughter (not all jurisdictions have depraved heart or felony murder rules).
140 Comments
frustrated_phagocytosis@fedia.io · 141 pts · 65d
She doesn't even need to be pregnant, you just have to claim to believe she was about to commit an abortion. Free women murders for everyone!
Fmstrat@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 64d
It's worse when you realize the bill isn't about the woman, but her doctor.
GroundedGator@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 64d
Well that explains why it's ok to kill a woman and therefore her fetus to prevent her from killing her fetus. It's not, but you can keep every abortion doctor in the area to prevent them from performing the procedure.
Do you have to have "standing"? Like do you actually have to even know the woman or is this just an open bounty on doctors?
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 64d
We already have a shortage of doctors as a whole and obstetricians have been fleeing red states for years now…
Dr_Fetus_Jackson@lemmy.world · 112 pts · 65d
"Pro life"
Yliaster@lemmy.world · 67 pts · 65d
It's only pro life as long as the child is being carried.
Once the kids out, they don't give a fuck about the woman or her child. They could both die, and they'd have no issue with it.
adarza@lemmy.ca · 51 pts · 65d
they don't actually care about the child, or its mother, before it's born, either. if they did, our health care system wouldn't be a for-profit scam.
village604@adultswim.fan · 25 pts · 65d
And they wouldn't be letting people use deadly force on pregnant women.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
A lot of the lobbying money for anti healthcare stuff comes from woowoo supplement companies etc. Imo we should be regulating the shit out of those companies at every level of government. Ban advertising for the products to prevent false claims, etc.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 28 pts · 65d
Not even then, at this point. Using 'deadly force' on a pregnant woman is not going to go well for the fetus.
Yliaster@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 65d
How is this even pro life anymore T-T
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 22 pts · 65d
It never was. "Pro-life" was just a weaponized slogan.
What they really stand for is "Forced birth" and "Promiscuous women should be punished".
Wrufieotnak@feddit.org · 16 pts · 65d
Promiscuouswomen should be punishedThere, fixed it for you. Nothing promiscuous about getting raped
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 9 pts · 65d
You and I know that, sure.
But conservatives love victim-blaming in rape cases.
lonefighter@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 64d
"Did you see what she was wearing? Her collar bone and ankles were showing. Slut was asking for it, she probably liked it"
Ugh
Yliaster@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 65d
I was actually quite stumped by the "abortion is murder!" argument initially as it can get philosophical quick on what constitutes a life that can be "murdered" (i.e. does it have to be birthed, walking, able, etc, this is a bad summary)— but the spike in alt right violence against women, children, and just people in general in the US made the hypocrisy glaringly obvious.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 5 pts · 65d
A woman's chance of getting murdered while pregnant (already distressingly high) has already increased significantly in states that outlawed abortion.
Dr_Fetus_Jackson@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 65d
Oh, I know. Just pointing out the duality of their bullshit.
Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 64d
Idk why babies don't just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 64d
Yep pro life ends at birth
OddMinus1@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 64d
"Pro quantity" vs "pro quality".
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 64d
"Pro Rape" imo.
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 62 pts · 65d
Lemme get this right...
If you see someone trying to kill a woman while claiming she's trying to get an abortion, you can kill this attacker without issue under the legal classification of acting to protect two people, including a soon-born. Is this what Republicans want? To facilitate the legal argument to kill right-wingers? Because I'd be totally fine with that.
finalarbiter@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 52 pts · 65d
By similar logic, couldn't one kill the legislators who passed this bill? They are clearly inviting violence upon pregnant women, so it should theoretically be legal to kill them in defense of those women if this bill passes.
NatakuNox@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 65d
whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 65d
don't bring logic in here!
NoForwadSlashS@piefed.social · 4 pts · 64d
No, no, let em cook
kreskin@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 65d
you'd be legally right but the cops will still squeal up in their full military gear and shoot you all the same. Although to be fair they were probably going to do that anyway.
veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 64d
Yeah I mean, previous and current fascism being the same, having an extra legal avenue to kill a fascist is always welcome.
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 64d
You can shoot someone who is threatening the life of another person anyway.
NatakuNox@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
Or any doctor prescribed a morning after pill or installed a IUD
rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works · 61 pts · 65d
Wouldn't the use of deadly force to prevent the abortion actually aid the abortion?
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 50 pts · 65d
Look, if they thought things through they wouldn’t be Republicans.
echodot@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 64d
I'm increasingly the opinion that Republicans don't actually know where babies come from.
R00bot@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 64d
I mean Republicans are stupid and all but I think they're intending for this to be a deterrent. It's a stupid and cruel deterrent, but it's probably not meant to somehow kill the woman without killing the baby.
shneancy@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 64d
it might not be meant for that, but it will be used to excuse that
essentially through the entire pregnancy people will get to be terrified as all it'd take to legally murder them would be making them look like they wanted an abortion
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 64d
I'm pretty sure that I saw a depressing statistic about the number of pregnant women getting murdered now. An unfortunate number of men murder their pregnant wives/girlfriends.
Iampossiblyatwork@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 65d
Doesn’t using deadly force on a pregnant woman defeat the purpose entirely?
SacralPlexus@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 65d
Depends on what you think the true purpose of a law like this would be.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works · 23 pts · 65d
Not if you're using deadly force against a doctor willing to perform an abortion, which is the more likely intent of the law.
Or the driver taking her somewhere. Or the person who called the driver.
And so on.
Iampossiblyatwork@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 64d
I didn’t even think of that. This is just gonna green light a lot of psychopathic behavior.
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today · 15 pts · 65d
Shhhh, logic is not allowed here.
abcd@feddit.org · 9 pts · 65d
Using deadly force against a pregnant woman leads to a dying fetus. That’s just the same thing the long way around. It also gives an infinite loophole to use deadly force against someone using deadly force. Basically the whole country could kill itself legally, with only one person surviving 🤷🏻♂️
FinalRemix@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 65d
There is no purpose besides cruelty. Whatever the shittiest interpretaion is, that's what the republicans are gonna want to go with.
echodot@feddit.uk · 41 pts · 64d
From a practical standpoint how does one prevent the death of an unborn child via the use of deadly force against its mother?
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 64d
I think its more about legalizing shooting doctors. What a healthy country we live in.
echodot@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 64d
So is this just another one of those cases where Texas or one of the other mad Max worshipping chaos states, is trying to implement its law nationally.
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 64d
Why stop there? They can't work if their equipment and ward isn't clean... kill the cleaners!
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
What about farmers supplying abortion doctors with food and goods?
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 64d
Good point. Best shoot them too
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 64d
It's a law legalizing the murder of Planned Parenthood staff and Democrats who want to overturn the law.
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 64d
Shhhhhh logic isn't allowed in this bill
Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
That shows just how much they genuinely care for the life of the fetus. If the woman wants/needs to abort then it's wrong. But if the woman wants/needs to abort then both lives are now forfeit
nickiwest@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
The purpose of their anti-abortion policies has always been to control women. They're finally comfortable dropping the pretext of caring about babies.
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 64d
Is this just a way to shoot your pregnant mistress for free?
MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 64d
Only if she's trying to get an abortion
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 64d
What's she going to do? Testify she wasn't?
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 64d
We should probably try to find the girlfriend of this bill's sponsor. I'm concerned for her safety.
MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 63d
I'm sure the burden of proof will be on the killer as is usually in self defence cases
Taleya@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 64d
Only if you leave her brain dead. You kill the baby as well and it's first degree murder
GraniteM@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
It's basically an excuse to shoot any woman, anytime, so long as you can conceive of a way to claim that you thought she was seeking an abortion. It would be a prosecutorial nightmare, at best, and open season on women at worst.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 64d
No, because that will terminate the pregnancy too. But since people are stupid, that's how they will read it (as the upvotes prove).
It's about shooting the doctor performing it and arresting women wanting it.
nectar45@lemmy.zip · 32 pts · 65d
"Republicans hate women"
I think even republicans know that republicans hate women at this point
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 64d
They've never made a secret out of it. Anyone who doesn't see that lives in denial.
BlindPenguin@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 64d
LurkingLuddite@piefed.social · 23 pts · 65d
Republicans hate everything. They're a brainless death cult only outclassed by Christians as a whole.
Danarchy@lemmy.nz · 19 pts · 65d
As long as you say “he’s abortioning right at me!” you can kill em and ain’t nothing Johnny Law can do about it
Trigger2_2000@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 64d
Bytemeister@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 64d
On the flip side, it says that a person can use force, including deadly force, to prevent death or harm to themselves or another person.
So hypothetically, your doctor, is using lethal force, to prevent the person inside you from harming you.
Totally legal as the law is written.
IANAL ; best option is to move out of regressive states, and set the place on fire before you leave.
Footer1998@crazypeople.online · 3 pts · 64d
the law is a tool wielded against the working class by the ruling class, it will never protect you from them
to defeat fascism, you must organize. running away and random acts of violence accomplish nothing.
it is coming for you, wherever you run to.
join the IWW and get involved in local activist groups
BillyClark@piefed.social · 18 pts · 65d
Fortunately, the thing says it's a bill, and not that it's been passed into law.
If a state does pass a law like that, it's hard to see why any sane woman would want to remain in that state.
iamthetot@piefed.ca · 27 pts · 65d
Plenty of people don't want to stay in a place they are oppressed, but the thing about being oppressed is that it often also makes it hard to leave that place.
fodor@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 65d
scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech · 13 pts · 65d
Bills like these get passed quietly and in darkness. I agree with your sentiment, but it's on us to build the uproar that prevents it from making it any further.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 17 pts · 64d
It doesn't sound like Hate, it sounds like Slavery.
Hate would be activelly going out and trying to kill women, whilst punishing them for not letting their bodies be used by others as objects is, IMHO, much more a Slaver's take on other human beings.
A Slaver's motivation would also be pretty in tune with Tradition for Republican members of the power elites in North Carolina.
GlendatheGayWitch@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 64d
Removing the remnants of a miscarriage is also coded as an abortion. So theres still plenty of hate in this bill as well.
Hopefully they won't pass a law requiring shotgun weddings in the case of pregnancy.
echodot@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 64d
You've also got to remember that most of these people have never had a proper relationship with a woman in their lives, so they wouldn't know about any of this.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 64d
Abortions are actually very common due to miscarriages. I was personally affected by this and was present for a 9 month old abortion of a stillbirth. Even though my wife gave birth it was classified as an abortion because the baby had passed. We even have a abortion certificate.
So, according to proposed law a gunman could enter the hospital and kill the doctors, nurses, my wife and me in order to stop an abortion of a dead baby.
Makes perfect sense.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 64d
It's a different and more complicated kind of hate. I find it useful to split bigotry into bigotry to dominate and bigotry to exterminate. American racism towards black people is the former, while American racism towards indigenous people is the latter.
Misogyny is almost always about domination, but it's a unique kind because they can't switch to extermination or even bluff it. They can't hide women away to exist quietly in the background. They're fully dependent on women to reproduce, and for most misogynistic men, for sexual pleasure. Many of them resent that they're dependent on those they see as inferior for such things and that they can be leveraged.
So yeah, this is hate, just a hate that they can deny because they don't want to think that they hate women, just women's independence.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 64d
Well, I suppose the broader point I'm making is that it's Sociopathy/Psychopathy.
The most harm done to people (I would even say, the most Evil) comes from people who couldn't care less for how other people feel because they have no Empathy with other people's suffering, and thus when they can will do whatever to others for their own personal upsides, even if those "upsides" are only satisfying their own personal petty psychological desires such as those you point out.
Hate actually involves some element of thinking of and caring about the other person (though a negative "caring", of the "I want to make them suffer"), a kind of Evil which is very rare in real life even if it's the most common in the movie "evil guy" stereotype.
As I've learned (from amongst other things working in the Finance Industry), the most common Evil is people knowingly doing things harmful to others to make money for themselves, get (more) power and influence or simply satisfy petty internal desires such as wanting to feel dominance over others (this later being, IMHO, the core of Moralism).
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 64d
That's fair, but we also don't know that he doesn't actively hate women. Just because you don't want someone dead doesn't mean you don't have active hatred for them.
Most evil is banal, but quite a few people move to hating groups that they initially were hurting out of self interested gain. I've seen plenty of hate and it's often a means of bypassing empathy for some reason or another
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 0 pts · 64d
God this is a good comment
Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 64d
More accurately: someone raped a 14 year old girl, the pregnancy has become ectopic. The punishment for trying to save her life is worse than the person who raped a 14 year old.
zout@fedia.io · 14 pts · 65d
Is it normal in the USA to allow the general population to use deadly force? That's fucked up.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 64d
How'd the USA get to be a nation in the first place?
snooggums@piefed.world · 2 pts · 64d
Hugs and kisses!
Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
By rising up again tyrannical ruler.
Which those dickless 2A nutballs think any attempt to reduce gun violence is a direct threat to every right and freedom
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 64d
Lots of ifs/ands/ors/ and buts. Varies by state and generally only under legally defined self defense situations with some judicial discrepancy, mind you it varies by state and some regions are so loose with it that you can just get murdered by going on someone's property. Which may make sense if you live in the middle of fucking nowhere and give warnings and are a thirty minute drive from another person but there have been cases where shit like that happens in suburbs,.
Anarki_@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 64d
Uuhh... Yeah? Second amendment.
echodot@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 64d
If you went back in time and showed them a modern day assault rifle, they would probably have some opinions about the second amendment.
tsfehsim@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 64d
I swear to god they’re trying to legislate a civil war. They preach us vs them political rhetoric and want everyone running around with a gun. What a shit time to call yourself an American, but then again I’m not sure there ever was a good time.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 64d
Yes. Thats what they want. They want a mass uprising that they can use to suspend rule of law, elections, etc, so trump can become el' presidente' for life and commence to doing whatever the republicans want to do, free from oversight of law, courts, etc.
I suddenly want to play Tropico.
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 2 pts · 64d
Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to that, so long as the two-term-limit remains effective...
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 64d
I think its also them seeing vigilantism as a way to get around constitutional requirements like due process and the 8th amendment. This is the kind of law people created by people who see the constitution as an obstacle.
It is somewhat comforting that they still see the constitution as a barrier to the hellscape they envision for society.
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
Playing around with the monopoly of violence in the US strikes me as a bad idea.
But yes, they're mobilizing the klan again.
TootTootComingThru@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
The kuck klan aren't the only ones with firearms and unfortunately for them people that hate the klan are arming themselves at a high rate.
andyburke@fedia.io · 13 pts · 65d
Yo, everyone, this is aimed at the doctors, regardless of their gender.
stupe@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 64d
All abortion bills are aimed at women.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 64d
Women aren't the only people who can get pregnant.
wuffah@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 64d
Here is the proposed text of the NC state constitutional amendment affirming personhood at conception, then including:
Here is the NC Dept. of Health and Human Service’s required abortion information describing the state’s abortion laws. They ban after 12 weeks, with exceptions for rape and incest before 20 weeks, and life-threatening anomalies before 24 weeks.
Here from the Raleigh Observer quoting state democratic lawmaker Rep. Julie von Haefen:
And here is my take: NC state republicans use women’s healthcare as a political pawn for pushing anti-worker and anti-tax interests, which neatly encapsulates the US culture war for the past 60 years. This bill will not pass, because it is insane, but it may succeed in its intent: looting the pockets of the people of NC.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 64d
how many times have we said "It wont happen, it cant happen, its too insane" in the past 10 years? only for it to very much happen?
SnoringEarthworm@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 64d
Shoot for the Gilead. If you miss, you still land among the capitalist nightmare hellscape.
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 64d
"Our first mistake was teaching them to read. We won't do that again"
ericatty@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 64d
eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 64d
Have you met the voters of North Carolina?
Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 64d
Killing live people - women, children, POCs, poor, other countries, etc - has always been acceptable and even promoted by Republicans. It's only ending potential pregnancies when they "care" about lives. Except of course when it's their wife, mistress, daughter who wants an abortion, then it's ok.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
If I were to summarize how this fits into long term republican vision of society it would be the following.
"Abortion, like healthcare, home ownership, and free speech is a thing we should reserve solely to for the wealthy and anybody making less than 2 million a year should not have access to any of these things"
SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev · 5 pts · 64d
2 million a year is a close to perfect way to divide the owning class for the rest of us. A surgeon has more in common with a grocery store clerk than a CEO and people really don't understand that.
Ageroth@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 64d
Honestly in some ways the actual number doesn't matter, if you earn your living by selling your labor for a salary or wages you aren't the problem
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
I would agree. The TEM (temporarily embarrassed millionaire) problem is particularly visible in corporate middle management and small business owners.
DragonAce@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
"Rules for thee, not for me."
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
It should be remembered its always an elitist view when people view a subset of the population as unable to appreciate, unworthy to have or 'going to far with' a freedom.
nickiwest@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion
This is 26 years old and still worth your time if you've never read it.
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · -1 pts · 64d
Fixed that for you
Zink@programming.dev · 10 pts · 64d
This could be a completely serious Orphan Crushing Machine solution in the minds of conservative basic dickheads.
"If somebody is already gonna go out in a blaze of glory, why not point them towards doctors and women's healthcare rather than schools? Nailed it."
Dasus@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 65d
hanrahan@slrpnk.net · 8 pts · 65d
Voters hate women... you don't have to vote for these ass clowns but you do anyway and I bet a significant portion of women vote for them., just as they do for Trump. in particular white women vote Trump
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2024-11-07/white-women-vote-donald-trump-kamala-harris
Avicenna@programming.dev · 8 pts · 64d
I can't even... Use of deadly force to save a baby in a mother's womb? Are you like supposed also do a C-section right there on the spot so that the mother dies but the baby is fine?
nlgranger@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 64d
Sounds like a fitting addition to the repo men scenario. Sadly this is reality.
JayDee@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
Keep in mind, this is deadly force to prevent an abortion. Abortions are only done during the time that child is unviable. Essentially no providers give abortions past 24 weeks. So, even if you use deadly force to prevent an abortion, the baby is pretty much gauranteed to be unable to survive outside the mother at that point. You are then undoubtedly killing both mother and fetus.
Avicenna@programming.dev · 1 pts · 64d
haha I hadn't even factored that in, so insane...
noodlesreborn@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 64d
This is unbelievable. I remember reading into misogyny through the ages and there was a law like this in one of earth's oldest human societies. How have we gone this far back???
Snailpick42@lemmus.org · 0 pts · 64d
Religion. That's why. It's cancer.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 64d
I beg to differ. Today this is moneyed elites throwing certifiably insane people concessions because sane people would impose taxes on the rich. To the wealthy protecting their money comes before the freedom of the masses.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 64d
Really? Because I see only one religion pushing this shit, and it's Christianity.
Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
Despite the fact abortion, in terms of it being a threat to the mother's life, is perfectly acceptable in the Bible.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 64d
There are even instructions in there!
bufalo1973@piefed.social · 4 pts · 64d
I think this pieces of shit see the handmaid's tale as a manual and not as a warning.
Wataba@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 65d
Now she's getting it.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 65d
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 0 pts · 64d
people keep talking about "first-degree murder"
is there "second-degree murder"?
idegenszavak@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 64d
Yes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_United_States_law
echodot@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 64d
Are they punished differently in the US? In most countries there isn't really a distinction because of the difficulty in proving intent.
If somebody repeatedly kicks and punches somebody into unconsciousness and ultimately kills them from internal bleeding is that first degree or second degree?
calcopiritus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
Intent is not the difference. The difference is planning.
I am not a lawyer, but this my understand:
If you're enjoying a quiet time in the park and a kid shouts, which disturbs you, so you shoot the kid in the head. You intended to kill the kid. You aimed at his head and shot a deadly weapon.
However, it was not planned. Your plan was to enjoy a quiet time in the park. You just killed the kid because of a momentary rage. You didn't even know the kid.
I believe that would be second degree.
If you didn't intend to kill, that would be something else, like gross negligence or whatever. For example running a red light and killing a kid that you didn't even see because your enormous American car (which you call a truck, but the bed is always empty). That would not be first or second degree murder. In America it may just result in a traffic violation because you ran a red light. Might be a 100$ fine.
Hazmatastic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 64d
Likely second, unless there was some evidence it was planned in some way. Like, if they also found a text talking about how much they hated that guy and wished he was dead, you could make a case for first. If there was a plan to bring the person to an isolated location for their fight, it would likely be first in that case. Same could be said for tracking their work shifts in preparation, casing their house to see when they're alone, etc.
calcopiritus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
Not necessarily. According to the article above, even if you plan to beat the guy, it can still be second degree. If your plan was just to beat him up (without killing), then it's second degree. Since the death itself wasn't planned. Only the great bodily harm was planned.
EDIT: "depraved-heart murder, which can be considered second-degree"
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 64d
Generally speaking, second degree doesn't involve premeditation. You get in a bar fight and kill someone or walk in on your wife with another man and shoot in a blind rage.
Manslaughter is generally when you kill someone criminally without intent. That would be something like running a stoplight, which is a crime, and t-boning a car killing a passenger. You were committing a non-violent crime with no intent to hurt anyone, but you still killed someone.
Felony Murder in many states is when you commit a felony that leads to someone's death. For instance, you commit arson for insurance money (a felony), and someone gets killed trying to put it out. It's also been used on robbery accomplices when their partner kills someone.
Depraved Heart Murder is when you knowingly do something so incredibly reckless someone is likely to get killed and choose to move forward. The depraved indifference in that case is considered malice aforethought (essentially intent). An example would be knowingly selling tainted medicine for profit. A great real-life example was the Schlitterbahn executive that paid off injury victims for a dangerous waterside to keep them quiet because the slide was really profitable until a kid was decapitated by the ride. The executive was charged with murder for covering up the dangerous ride instead of shutting down and fixing it.
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 3 pts · 64d
thanks
so just to clarify, insurance companies intentionally delaying care to patients would be depraved heart murder, right?
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 64d
Depending on the jurisdiction and the specifics, a strong case could be made for depraved heart murder, felony murder, or manslaughter (not all jurisdictions have depraved heart or felony murder rules).
Oh - and the Schlitterbahn executives got off.
TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 64d
Depends state to state, in some, first degree is basically terrorists and serial killers.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 64d
First degree usually means premeditation
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · -6 pts · 64d
Replace Republicans with Americans.
They share the blame.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 64d
this is all conservatives, americans isnt unique to anti-abortions.