French pronunciation works by geological principles: over the years, what looks like an intricate arrangement of vowels and consonants gets eroded and folded down to what’s essentially a nuanced grunt.
Where is this and how would you pronounce the "g"?
Also, you made me think about a story about a shop in a southern Norwegian city, where the owner put up a sign around lunch time: "e æ a å eder" (I am off to eat), the shop owner across the street saw it and made his own sign saying "e æ a e å" (I am off as well (lit. I am off I also))
I hate French like the next guy, but pronunciation rules are at least consistent compared to English. An English word's pronunciation is everyone's best guess. Sometimes depends on context or tense, even when written the exact same. With French you don't really have that. It's confusing, there are lots of letters, but at least it's consistent.
The Celtics got invaded by the Romans, then by Saxons, then by Vikings/Danes, then by Normans in the 11 Century. Then they spent the last 900 years invading everybody else.
Ehh, Normans mostly kept to themselves. The folks didn't have to adopt any of their language, except to speak to the king and upper administration. But French language was perceived as fashionable, so the vocabulary crept into English — the division between crude everyday Norse/Germanic words and ‘elegant’ highbrow Norman words is still present in the choice of which ones were chosen to stay in the language for any particular topic.
And guess who they stole a bunch from? Yes, French. Blame the French. Blame the Franks and the Normans specifically for making the pronunciation weird.
English suffers from adopting a lot of words from other languages. We got a mix of Germanic, French, a bit of Spanish and Italian, and for the US English, whatever butchery the Brits did/do. (See: The Great vowel shift and Soccer) You smash all those languages together and then let the Brits spend a few hundred years mangling everything and see what you get for rules.
Today English is still willing to file the serial numbers off of any cool sounds and claim as our own. So, Damn the Rules! It makes for interesting words.
But I still blame the French for no other reason than I can.
I also forgot about the early Dutch press operators that old Bill Caxton hired that gave us the silent h in words like ghost because that was close to ghast. And wh got added because they thought it looked better the the standard hw that was common at the time. Ok, that one is kind of a wash.
The standardization of spelling that printing presses require added a nasty list of silent letters to the English language that weren't there before thanks to those early press operators.
I've spoken French my whole life. The only consistent thing I can think of versus English is the prononciaton of "c" or "g" with the succeeding vowel. Otherwise it's such a mess. "Eau" (water) has three vowels, but is pronounced like the one vowel that is not in it: "o". Almost all words have letters that aren't pronounced, but you can't tell from any rules. You just have to know how the word is pronounced and written.
English pronunciation and spelling is indeed also fairly inconsistent, but I still make a lot less spelling mistakes even though it's not my first language.
Everywhere you see 'eau' or 'eaux' it's pronounced 'o'. Always, no exceptions. It's crazy you never noticed that once you know the pronunciation rules of French you can say every word correctly.
As someone who has also spoken French their entire life; I disagree. Is French orthography messy? Sure, but it's a consistent mess. Like the other commenter said, once you know "eau" is pronounced "o", you know. Un beau bateau sur l'eau.
Contrast with English, where rough & thorough thought is required throughout tough sentences such as this one just to figure out what the Fuck sound "gh" will make.
I really came to appreciate the difference in English and French when I used to work in pharmacies; my first job was in a French place, and I intuitively knew how to pronounce drug names at first encounter.
I later worked in a place with only Anglophones and I never got the prononciation on the first try. It was a guessing game.
I learned French in school, but no one ever told me how modern French is a combination of divergent old French languages, "Langues D'oc" in the south where the word for yes was "oc" and "Langues d'oïl" where oui was the word for yes in the North.
From the former, we have L'Occitane, and the Languedoc region of the south of France.
I wonder what else i don't know about French. /me reads Wikipedia.
Sometimes even the exact same set of letters are pronounced differently. The verb live vs a live broadcast. Read (present) vs read (past) and many more.... Are you kidding me?
French is actually quite regular with fewer exceptions to the rules of pronounciation.
People like to use french words like "Oiseau" (bird) as an example of why french pronounciation is bad but they just do not know the rules of it!
Take "Oiseau" for example "Oi" is usually pronounced [wa] like in "Oie" with a silent e, "Oise" or other words containing it. -seau is a typical suffix. So a french reader can easily know how to pronounce "oiseau" just from reading it. You just can't because you don't know the rules of French pronounciation!
English is so much worse with pronounciations that ignores spelling: Take the word "colonel" for example. What's worse is that in English there seemingly are no rules whatsoever with vocals being long or short depending on historical reasons and consonants appearing or disapering depending on whether Mercury is in retrograde.
I feel like we might as well just go back to symbol languages. What’s the point of an alphabet if the letters don’t actually convey consistent pronunciation? It’s just more confusing because the letters imply rules which don’t hold.
I had the reverse problem when listening to the excellent "the fall of Rome" podcast.
At some point, the american host starts to talk extensively about a city port in the South of France named something like "Awol".
I was confused, thinking : "I lived close to the area he is describing for 3 years as a student, and never heard of that city. Maybe it's like in Marseille where the port was re discovered in the 80s inland, many hundred meters from the sea."
After more than an hour of listening I realised he was simply saying "Arles" with an American accent.
It is a very famous Roman city with beautiful ruins where I went several times, so I might just be dumb.
Listening to it again he really struggles with this one, which is weird because I have otherwise no difficulty to understand him when he uses other French or Italian names.
And when the letters are removed, French still lets you know there was a letter at some point by putting a little hat on top of the preceding letter. It makes learning it even funnier.
Forêt and forest. Arrêt and arrest. Hôpital and hospital.
As a native French speaker this may be the laziest part to me. We still say someone was hoSpitalisé, in a hôpital. People can be défeneStrés through fenêtres. Someone can be arrêté through arrestation.
Lots of hidden pains and treasures. When I was a kid I thought learning all this shit was pointless. We should just reform everything and spell like we speak. But then I also learned to appreciate the evolution of the language, and why it's aisle and isle in English.
Same for Estonian, which is why we need umlauts for letters that don't exist in many other languages' versions of the latin alphabet. But since we're special snowflakes, we also have õ, which is such an uncommon letter in the world that we have a border sign on our biggest island to signify where the language border exists: On the mainland and most places we use õ, but people on Saaremaa people will use ö instead because they're behind the times.
We also have ž and š but they're a bit less special, many european languages use them. Because how would you even know how to pronounce gelatine without writing it as želatiin?
I'm curious where the 's' was dropped first, in speech or writing? Written French is quite prescriptive with phonetics so I would guess it dropped from spoken language first?
(And each little 'hat' is just a 'tip of the hat' to the lost letter? (Ok, I'll see myself out lol))
Indeed. According to a literary website from Lyon's library, the s was not pronounced in certain words well before we stopped writing them. Apparently it took a few centuries to introduce the circumflex.
Bien que la graphie ait longtemps gardé la présence de ce /s/, on ne le prononçait plus depuis bien avant qu'on ne décide, au XVIIIe siècle (dès l'édition de 1740 du Dictionnaire de l'Académie française), de noter cet amuïssement par le recours systématique à l'accent circonflexe. L'amuïssement du /s/ en position appuyante date pourtant d'après 1066.
Or in English
Although the spelling retained the /s/ for a long time, it had ceased to be pronounced well before the decision was made in the 18th century (starting with the 1740 edition of the Dictionary of the French Academy) to systematically indicate this elision through the use of the circumflex accent. The elision of the /s/ in stressed position, however, dates back to after 1066.
That would be very typical of French. Spoken French is well in advance on the written form. Hence the jokes at its expense.
Maybe in a few other centuries we'll have made a few other reforms to match what's written with what we're saying, but I think most of us kind of like that. The written form is the glue that holds all the varieties of French together and writing formal French also makes one feel a bit smug.
Take it from the Serbs then. They have rule that states write as you say it and that means they even change the spelling of foreign words and such. Foreign names for people and towns are spelled as you would pronounce them. So New York is something like Njujork and Michael Jackson becomes Majkl Džekson or somethig similar.
Yes, I know some of those are technically pronounced differently, but the average English speaker can't tell.
But honestly, as someone who learned French as an adult, the biggest hurdle is knowing which combinations of letters make which sounds. Many are completely illogical - the 3rd person plural verb conjugations are particularly weird - but there is less inconsistentcy than English. The harder part is actually trying to get your English tongue to say words like "aéroport" or "heureux" or "accueillir" properly.
There are always some outliers, like "oeuf" (egg) being pronounced "uhf" while the plural "oeufs" being pronounced "oo", but you get used to those.
Meanwhile, Russian is 99% phonetic if you take the total of 5 hours to learn the Cyrillic alphabet (which by the way Duolingo was actually incredible at, just don't use duo for actually learning the language)
I learned to read Cyrillic from reading Wikipedia. I got obsessed with Russian history and Russian entries in Wikipedia have the English name alongside the Cyrillic spelling. So, I read the Russian words alongside the English spelling to help me how to read in Russian. I also thought I could try reading Greek since Cyrillic is based from it, but for some reason I am struggling. I think I can quickly learn to read letters based from the shape and the sound they represent but Greek letters are a bit more complicated for me.
There is nothing specific, but what I mean is that Russian public figures or ideas would have their Anglicised name on the entry at the introduction page alongside their Cyrillic spellings. Putting the Cyrillic spelling side by side with the English spelling made me learn how to read and pronounce Russian.
It's really not, if anything French and English should be reversed. You can generally know how a french word is supposed to be pronounced when reading it (assuming you know how to read French, of course), in English it's a complete crapshoot
Letters in words are never pronounced like they sound in the alphabet, they are pronounced in syllables like I am showing you here but you probably already know that and chose not to say it because its not against the French language.
88 Comments
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 72 pts · 28d
French pronunciation works by geological principles: over the years, what looks like an intricate arrangement of vowels and consonants gets eroded and folded down to what’s essentially a nuanced grunt.
AnarchoEngineer@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 26 pts · 28d
I think you actually just described Danish.
Why pronounce a consonant when you just can swallow it and use a glottal stop instead?
bstix@feddit.dk · 16 pts · 28d
"A g å a ø i a å" is a proper sentence where I come from.
It means: A goat on an island in a river.
ChristerMLB@piefed.social · 3 pts · 27d
Where is this and how would you pronounce the "g"?
Also, you made me think about a story about a shop in a southern Norwegian city, where the owner put up a sign around lunch time: "e æ a å eder" (I am off to eat), the shop owner across the street saw it and made his own sign saying "e æ a e å" (I am off as well (lit. I am off I also))
bstix@feddit.dk · 7 pts · 27d
It's North Jutland. The g is pronounced as "ge" almost like German "geh".
I'm not native, and even after 15 years I sometimes still don't understand the local dialect.
The Norwegian Kamelåså joke about Danish is funny because its true.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 28d
That's just called language
teslekova@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 27d
Sounds like Australian. Or strayn, as I would say to a fellow denizen of this beloved wonderhell.
benjirenji@slrpnk.net · 51 pts · 28d
I hate French like the next guy, but pronunciation rules are at least consistent compared to English. An English word's pronunciation is everyone's best guess. Sometimes depends on context or tense, even when written the exact same. With French you don't really have that. It's confusing, there are lots of letters, but at least it's consistent.
Flower@sh.itjust.works · 26 pts · 28d
English pronunciation depends on the language they stole the word from.
Phunter@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 27d
It also depends who you're talking to and/or where you are.
decolo@piefed.social · 7 pts · 27d
That part's not as unique to English though.
IcyToes@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 27d
Stolen from? The English got invaded by the Romans, Normans, Vikings etc. Didn't have much choice in that word adoption.
Bluewing@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 27d
Oh, we steal words. And we will continue to steal words until we have them all!
Domitian@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 27d
The Celtics got invaded by the Romans, then by Saxons, then by Vikings/Danes, then by Normans in the 11 Century. Then they spent the last 900 years invading everybody else.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 27d
Ehh, Normans mostly kept to themselves. The folks didn't have to adopt any of their language, except to speak to the king and upper administration. But French language was perceived as fashionable, so the vocabulary crept into English — the division between crude everyday Norse/Germanic words and ‘elegant’ highbrow Norman words is still present in the choice of which ones were chosen to stay in the language for any particular topic.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 27d
What about Normandy?
nullify3112@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 27d
And guess who they stole a bunch from? Yes, French. Blame the French. Blame the Franks and the Normans specifically for making the pronunciation weird.
Bluewing@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 27d
English suffers from adopting a lot of words from other languages. We got a mix of Germanic, French, a bit of Spanish and Italian, and for the US English, whatever butchery the Brits did/do. (See: The Great vowel shift and Soccer) You smash all those languages together and then let the Brits spend a few hundred years mangling everything and see what you get for rules.
Today English is still willing to file the serial numbers off of any cool sounds and claim as our own. So, Damn the Rules! It makes for interesting words.
But I still blame the French for no other reason than I can.
bricklove@midwest.social · 1 pts · 27d
It also didn't help that English was standardizing its spelling as the Great Vowel Shift was occurring
Bluewing@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 26d
I also forgot about the early Dutch press operators that old Bill Caxton hired that gave us the silent h in words like ghost because that was close to ghast. And wh got added because they thought it looked better the the standard hw that was common at the time. Ok, that one is kind of a wash.
The standardization of spelling that printing presses require added a nasty list of silent letters to the English language that weren't there before thanks to those early press operators.
RaoulLeLapin@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 27d
I've spoken French my whole life. The only consistent thing I can think of versus English is the prononciaton of "c" or "g" with the succeeding vowel. Otherwise it's such a mess. "Eau" (water) has three vowels, but is pronounced like the one vowel that is not in it: "o". Almost all words have letters that aren't pronounced, but you can't tell from any rules. You just have to know how the word is pronounced and written.
English pronunciation and spelling is indeed also fairly inconsistent, but I still make a lot less spelling mistakes even though it's not my first language.
benjirenji@slrpnk.net · 10 pts · 27d
Everywhere you see 'eau' or 'eaux' it's pronounced 'o'. Always, no exceptions. It's crazy you never noticed that once you know the pronunciation rules of French you can say every word correctly.
oce@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 27d
As anything in French, there are expctions like "femme" et "monsieur" but they are fewer and more manageable than for English.
Evkob@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 27d
As someone who has also spoken French their entire life; I disagree. Is French orthography messy? Sure, but it's a consistent mess. Like the other commenter said, once you know "eau" is pronounced "o", you know. Un beau bateau sur l'eau.
Contrast with English, where rough & thorough thought is required throughout tough sentences such as this one just to figure out what the Fuck sound "gh" will make.
I really came to appreciate the difference in English and French when I used to work in pharmacies; my first job was in a French place, and I intuitively knew how to pronounce drug names at first encounter.
I later worked in a place with only Anglophones and I never got the prononciation on the first try. It was a guessing game.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 27d
I learned French in school, but no one ever told me how modern French is a combination of divergent old French languages, "Langues D'oc" in the south where the word for yes was "oc" and "Langues d'oïl" where oui was the word for yes in the North.
From the former, we have L'Occitane, and the Languedoc region of the south of France.
I wonder what else i don't know about French. /me reads Wikipedia.
stuner@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 28d
English pronunciation is much worse than just silent letters. It doesn't really make any sense and you need to learn tons of words by heart: https://fishofgold.net/2023/12/08/english-pronunciation-is-stupid/
Sometimes even the exact same set of letters are pronounced differently. The verb live vs a live broadcast. Read (present) vs read (past) and many more.... Are you kidding me?
Blackdoomax@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 28d
There are more than one word than I must pronounce badly xd
bandanawearingbanana@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 27d
French is actually quite regular with fewer exceptions to the rules of pronounciation.
People like to use french words like "Oiseau" (bird) as an example of why french pronounciation is bad but they just do not know the rules of it!
Take "Oiseau" for example "Oi" is usually pronounced [wa] like in "Oie" with a silent e, "Oise" or other words containing it. -seau is a typical suffix. So a french reader can easily know how to pronounce "oiseau" just from reading it. You just can't because you don't know the rules of French pronounciation!
English is so much worse with pronounciations that ignores spelling: Take the word "colonel" for example. What's worse is that in English there seemingly are no rules whatsoever with vocals being long or short depending on historical reasons and consonants appearing or disapering depending on whether Mercury is in retrograde.
darthelmet@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 27d
I feel like we might as well just go back to symbol languages. What’s the point of an alphabet if the letters don’t actually convey consistent pronunciation? It’s just more confusing because the letters imply rules which don’t hold.
crunchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 36 pts · 28d
French: oui paid for the whole alphabet and by God oui're using the whole alphabet
Sirius006@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 28d
And we are going to use the almost all the alphabet to make exactly one sound.
For instance eaux is pronounced o.
StillAlive@piefed.world · 15 pts · 28d
> Heard my friend is going to 'Bordo'
> Look up Bordo
> Mfw it's spelled Bordeaux
Sirius006@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 27d
I had the reverse problem when listening to the excellent "the fall of Rome" podcast. At some point, the american host starts to talk extensively about a city port in the South of France named something like "Awol".
I was confused, thinking : "I lived close to the area he is describing for 3 years as a student, and never heard of that city. Maybe it's like in Marseille where the port was re discovered in the 80s inland, many hundred meters from the sea." After more than an hour of listening I realised he was simply saying "Arles" with an American accent.
It is a very famous Roman city with beautiful ruins where I went several times, so I might just be dumb.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 3 pts · 27d
Okay how the hell did they messed up the pronounce so much??
Sirius006@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 27d
I found it. It's episode 7: the three transformations of Roman Gaul.
He starts to mention Arles at minute 7.
Listening to it again he really struggles with this one, which is weird because I have otherwise no difficulty to understand him when he uses other French or Italian names.
binarytobis@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 28d
I’ve always thought it was funny there is no “o” in “eaux”.
Sirius006@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 27d
What do you mean ? IT IS obviously the only correct way to write o.
pedz@lemmy.ca · 29 pts · 28d
And when the letters are removed, French still lets you know there was a letter at some point by putting a little hat on top of the preceding letter. It makes learning it even funnier.
Forêt and forest. Arrêt and arrest. Hôpital and hospital.
As a native French speaker this may be the laziest part to me. We still say someone was hoSpitalisé, in a hôpital. People can be défeneStrés through fenêtres. Someone can be arrêté through arrestation.
Lots of hidden pains and treasures. When I was a kid I thought learning all this shit was pointless. We should just reform everything and spell like we speak. But then I also learned to appreciate the evolution of the language, and why it's aisle and isle in English.
Gutek8134@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 28d
Let me introduce you to slavic languages, where AFAIK it's the rule, not exception
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 8 pts · 28d
Same for Estonian, which is why we need umlauts for letters that don't exist in many other languages' versions of the latin alphabet. But since we're special snowflakes, we also have õ, which is such an uncommon letter in the world that we have a border sign on our biggest island to signify where the language border exists: On the mainland and most places we use õ, but people on Saaremaa people will use ö instead because they're behind the times.
We also have ž and š but they're a bit less special, many european languages use them. Because how would you even know how to pronounce gelatine without writing it as želatiin?
AbsolutelyClawless@piefed.social · 2 pts · 27d
Couple of years ago I learned Estonian has letters ž and š, and as a Balkan Slav it made me excited (I'm weird) 😂
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 27d
It's not a rule in Slovene but pretty much any word is spelled the way you would pronounce it.
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 28d
I'm curious where the 's' was dropped first, in speech or writing? Written French is quite prescriptive with phonetics so I would guess it dropped from spoken language first? (And each little 'hat' is just a 'tip of the hat' to the lost letter? (Ok, I'll see myself out lol))
pedz@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 28d
Indeed. According to a literary website from Lyon's library, the s was not pronounced in certain words well before we stopped writing them. Apparently it took a few centuries to introduce the circumflex.
Or in English
That would be very typical of French. Spoken French is well in advance on the written form. Hence the jokes at its expense.
Maybe in a few other centuries we'll have made a few other reforms to match what's written with what we're saying, but I think most of us kind of like that. The written form is the glue that holds all the varieties of French together and writing formal French also makes one feel a bit smug.
farmgineer@nord.pub · 17 pts · 28d
Is that seaux?
username123@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 28d
Oué
LillyPip@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 28d
œufs.
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 28d
That's un oeuf
myster0n@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 28d
Un oeuf is enough
bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 27d
Pour mon omelette du fromage
pedz@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 28d
Yes it is sceau
Trex202@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 28d
Without reason, sure, but with a gender
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 10 pts · 28d
Assigned with malice
Furbag@pawb.social · 14 pts · 27d
I haven't had my coffee yet this morning. Read this and was like...
"Spanis" 👁👄👁
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 28d
French: Every living thing is born without meaning, but non-living things have a gender
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 11 pts · 28d
German: Dogs are male, cats are female, kids are middlesex. Your refrigerator is male.
uniquethrowagay@feddit.org · 2 pts · 27d
There's no way to disprove that! Have you ever seen a cat penis?
mrsemi@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 27d
faercol@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 28d
And different words used to name the same thing can have a different gender
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 27d
No, the WORDS have a gender because it makes things sound better.
Evil_Incarnate@sopuli.xyz · 10 pts · 27d
I'd put Finnish first. Every letter is there for a purpose and no tricks.
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 27d
Take it from the Serbs then. They have rule that states write as you say it and that means they even change the spelling of foreign words and such. Foreign names for people and towns are spelled as you would pronounce them. So New York is something like Njujork and Michael Jackson becomes Majkl Džekson or somethig similar.
Evil_Incarnate@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 27d
They do that sometimes in Finnish, less now than before. At least that's what I read on faisbuk.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 27d
I like the Serbian rule. It's not unnecessarily complicated.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 27d
I'd have put it at the end.
Tango@piefed.ca · 8 pts · 28d
Gaeilge: awww, you guys are adorable
angrystego@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 27d
French and English is switched.
BenVimes@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 27d
Yes, I know some of those are technically pronounced differently, but the average English speaker can't tell.
But honestly, as someone who learned French as an adult, the biggest hurdle is knowing which combinations of letters make which sounds. Many are completely illogical - the 3rd person plural verb conjugations are particularly weird - but there is less inconsistentcy than English. The harder part is actually trying to get your English tongue to say words like "aéroport" or "heureux" or "accueillir" properly.
There are always some outliers, like "oeuf" (egg) being pronounced "uhf" while the plural "oeufs" being pronounced "oo", but you get used to those.
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 2 pts · 27d
I think I'd write oeufs as "uhh" in quasiphonetinglish
Kennystillalive@feddit.org · 7 pts · 27d
The funniest part of this meme is: English is worse than French.
Etzello@midwest.social · 6 pts · 27d
Meanwhile, Russian is 99% phonetic if you take the total of 5 hours to learn the Cyrillic alphabet (which by the way Duolingo was actually incredible at, just don't use duo for actually learning the language)
cepelinas@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 26d
I still can't read words longer than 10 letters even though I have known it for a few years, Am I stupid?
Etzello@midwest.social · 1 pts · 26d
It's not stupid, it's a limitation you can overcome with practice but only if you actually care enough, not like you absolutely must
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 27d
I learned to read Cyrillic from reading Wikipedia. I got obsessed with Russian history and Russian entries in Wikipedia have the English name alongside the Cyrillic spelling. So, I read the Russian words alongside the English spelling to help me how to read in Russian. I also thought I could try reading Greek since Cyrillic is based from it, but for some reason I am struggling. I think I can quickly learn to read letters based from the shape and the sound they represent but Greek letters are a bit more complicated for me.
Etzello@midwest.social · 1 pts · 27d
I never even thought to look at Wikipedia, do you know which Wikipedia entry specifically? I'm curious
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 27d
There is nothing specific, but what I mean is that Russian public figures or ideas would have their Anglicised name on the entry at the introduction page alongside their Cyrillic spellings. Putting the Cyrillic spelling side by side with the English spelling made me learn how to read and pronounce Russian.
xeno_the_warrior_prince@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 28d
PapaStevesy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 28d
Do you like ghoti sticks? Then you're a gay ghoti.
aeiou@piefed.social · 5 pts · 28d
Tibetan: abject chaos
resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe · 5 pts · 28d
Bordeaux = bordo
chaitae3@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 27d
Les oreilles = laseray
uuj8za@piefed.social · 5 pts · 28d
In English, every letter is silent. Sometimes.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/mums-the-letter-when-letters-dont-say-a-thing
fartographer@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 28d
A meme format from one of the greatest movies of all time???
Up down up down up down up down
5765313496@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 27d
What movie is it? The guy looks like Aamir Khan to me, but I don't recognize the scene.
fartographer@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 27d
I'm pretty sure that this is 3 Idiots and that it's the scene where he uses a zipper as an example of a machine.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 28d
Letters still have lots of meaning in French. I love French spelling and pronunciation. Not understanding something doesn't make it meaningless.
LillyPip@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 28d
Accurate.
stormdelay@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 27d
It's really not, if anything French and English should be reversed. You can generally know how a french word is supposed to be pronounced when reading it (assuming you know how to read French, of course), in English it's a complete crapshoot
Etterra@discuss.online · 2 pts · 27d
The French word for bird is oiseau, which contains every vowel and none of them are pronounced correctly.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 27d
Oi wah
S Z
Eau O
Sound correct to me.
Letters in words are never pronounced like they sound in the alphabet, they are pronounced in syllables like I am showing you here but you probably already know that and chose not to say it because its not against the French language.